Death of the MMORPG Genre

A few things honestly. first of all mmos are expensive and require a lot of upkeep and constant updates ect to keep people playing, you can't just throw one out like a battle royal and support it by adding the occasion map or gun. Then you have mobile games pretty much doing the same thing but available to anyone while on the go and cheaper or free. And last but not least the communities have completely gone to shit to the point of being completely filled to the brim with a mix of special snowflake erp faggots who are complete dogshit at the game and minmax google doc tryhards who scream at anyone not spending 20 hours a day grinding so they can do 2% more dps in a fight.

They just aren't worth playing anymore unless you want to erp then it's fine

mmos are dead until we get the technology for full immersion vr, then it will be livelier than ever. this won't happen for several decades.

Till they turned it into the casual fuck fest.

No mmo can ever figure out an endgame that isn't dogshit. I sure do enjoy paying money to grind dailies and yell/get yelled at by people in my guild while running the same raid every week for two years before the next expansion, then doing it all over again.

MMORPG left out the RPG immersive part to focus more and more on the competitive part.

So the result was that everything before the MAX level was just a irrelevant tutorial. It was just a rush to PvP balance.

So once games like MOBA genre and just counter strike happened; they stole the playerabse because it was competition without the leveling boring part .

What was developer mistakes ? Listening to the playerbase . They made everything easier, they made instance dungeon, no punitive death; instant teleportation and meta building to balance PvP.

What could make the MMORPG genre great were actually used in some game like DayZ with interesting encounter, actual PvP danger, exploring, really immersive game overall.

I remember playing "The fourth coming" in 1999 and it was something else. And a lot could be learn from those games . A few things like:
Max level quite unreachable
PvP everywhere but in first town
no instance.
Punitive death
Small server allowing only 250 players at the same time making it a well known community
Mayor / guards / police etc were roles taken by players
and i could continue forever
Now you have 3000 players server but everyone play in an instance, they just rush lvl 50 and pvp.
yeah well, this is called a MOBA then, it's no longer a mmorpg

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When did you buy that RO subscription? It's been free to play for years.

>Nobody ever made an MMO that was also a good game.

DDO

They never actually succeeded in making one of those that was an actual RPG, and at some point they stopped trying, preferring to copy WoW instead of what WoW tried to be early on, and then the genre became stale and lost all promise, and then the players themselves lost interest, and now MMORPGs are over because they're expensive to develop and very risky.

Because MMO's are always the same type of breadcrumb trail boring ass game design. WoW and FF14 just do it best. Even then it's still boring as fuck. Someone needs to innovate or stop chasing these dated design styles

>game about same shit over and over again that is easy and boring, also retarded rng for certain items
Fear not! We remove/reduce rng and add challenging content!
>learning to beat new content is much quicker than producing even more content
S-s-stop leaving! We will release retardely hard content with super duper rewards! Also some super grindy ones for dedicated losers players!

Let's be honest. MMOs were more of a chat rooms with casino mechanics and dopamine givers than proper games. I heard original Guild Wars was different but would remake fly during retard era where people (even on Yea Forums) bitch about simple shit like building in Fortnite?

I think it was in 2011 or 2012. I don't remember exactly, but it was some time ago. The only game since then that brought back that feeling of playing RO way back when is Tree of Savior, but that game died really fast, mostly because IMC are incompetent as fuck.

The whole niche of MMO games was allowing you to interact with tons of people online and play with them despite shit internet.

Every game today makes multiplayer easy and the conglomeration of internet makes interacting with random strangers outside of game easier than ever.
Every game with multiplayer today is an MMO. MMORPGs are just that. Random RPGs with multiplayer, and RPGs aren't all that popular.

i miss camping.

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>RPGs aren't all that popular.
How many copies of Skyrim do you own?

Mobile gacha are your new MMO. No point in aiming your game at nolifers when you can milk whales.

I wish i could make the greatest mmorpg ever. But i don't know how to code and i'm lazy

GW2 is great and doing well

Cue salty Guild Wars babies in 3... 2... 1...

>I heard original Guild Wars was different

Original Guild Wars was a PvP oriented MMO. Along with instanced combat and all that, the closest equivalent would be more akin to a slightly more interesting, non-Assf. Smite.

pinnacle of mmorpgs

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The social aspect of MMOs, which back in the day was the entire reason they became so huge, has become irrelevant as you have social options in a million other games. without that you have to rely on the gameplay/story but let's be honest and admit that most of them follow the same wow style grinding model that eventually you realize is a treadmill with no true end beyond the game shutting down. While story wise most games are meh (don't get me started on BFA WOW's lore).

This is the most accurate post in the thread. Underated.

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How many copies of non-Skyrim RPG games do you own? World of Final Fantasy? Final Fantasy XV? Crosscode? Kingdoms: Come?

Skyrim doing well is like Fifa or Call of Duty doing well. Any other non-giant name title gets AA attention at best.

The big appeal of MMO's in the mid to early 2000's was the "MM" aspect
Big active world, always moving and living, immerse yourself in the world, so the games were designed to keep people playing, not to be finished and I think now people can see through that clearly, but the reason WoW and FF keep surviving is because of why they were popular in the first place, people loved Warcraft/WC3 and people loved Final Fantasy when XI came out, I remember how hyped up that was, people I knew were getting to PS2 HDD pack, i couldn't play because we had shit internet, most I ever got online with was Phantasy Star but still, there was an appeal for the time, but now it's different. People still play those for familiarity but there's literally no reason to play any other MMO because none of them offer anything as iconic and definitely don't innovate on that tired old breadcrumb trail of progression gameplay style
I feel like the genre has so much room to grow but it never will because every game is just a WoW clone

If singleplayer rpgs had trading or an auction house, I'd be happy with that. Or maybe something like that Dragon Quest Wii mmo where you could join other people for random battles, or like Persona 5 but actually being able to join the other person rather than send your character to help/receive help from the person's character

>TFW there are other ddo players still out and about

Design an MMO in one sentence that will save the MMO genre.

they aren't wised up, they just switched to mobages

F2P pre-Abyssea FFXI.

>mmo where you play preset stories/quests that have big definite ends with friends
Would this be viable/fun?
Like, imagine a game where you group up with 4-8 others to play through Final Fantasy 1 together. Yeah it'd require a lot of everyone planning to play together but that sounds more fun than just following the same old quest lines that don't lead anywhere

Once you start playing, you can not stop until you quit permanently, you can not do anything else - including browsing the web - while playing the game.

The tech isn't there anymore, and the desire for MMO tech is non-existant.

You can tell from most people in this thread that people think MMO = Grinding Always Online Gacha loot grinders, and not massively multiplayer online, because of this the market shifted away from having stable, massive open worlds that can support MMO style gameplay and instead focused on the skinnerbox mechanics the industry uses to keep people logging in and populating the world, turning it from a necessary evil to keep the worlds alive, to the main design.

If you want to really see what happened to the Genre, you merely have to watch how WOW changed over the years, it started out as a solid MMO, but as they catered to world first poopsockers they stripped out the MMO elements to streamline the game and create more and more skinnerbox systems, such as daily quests and weekly lootboxes becoming the only thing to do at end game

mmorpgs are specific to a generation
the majority of that niche as moved on in life, they have families, jobs and no time or interest for the mmorpg genre
it's over guys

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Look at how a game like dayZ can make social encounter interesting again. They must back off from the WoW model. RPG are supposed to be immersive.

Loot has overtaken the RPG part.

>the majority of that niche as moved on in life, they have families, jobs and no time or interest

This post gets more retarded eveytime someone says it

People overlooking Elder Scrolls Online when the game is actually pretty darn great now

>2004
>Thousands of people zerging the starting zones
>2019
>More then 20 people in a shard causes the server to crash

>FFXIV
It's dying to, in EU at least.
Not because of lacking content or anything but people being literally too braindead for everything so they move on.

The other retards that dwell in the game have their subscription running so they can afk in cities/FC house.

This fucking shit is what killed the MMO genre

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I would like more details about this.

I miss the orcs lurking just right outside the city, waiting for all those fags who needed to stock up on their reagents.

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Yeah, survival/battle royal are definitely onto something, I think Monster Hunter also has elements they could draw from.
I think in general people are moving towards smaller group focused games because they are just more fun

This

If your not picking up piles of loot 95% of it you will toss anyway the game is bad for somereason

>the majority of that niche as moved on in life, they have families, jobs and no time or interest

C'mon user, anyone who actively played/plays an MMO doesn't have any of those things.

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IT IS NOT OVER , we must take the genre back.
You don't realise the potential

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ESO is alive an well. If I remember right, it actually has more active players than FF14. Also, wtf is that game you posted. That's not RO. RO had 2D sprites.

But most people don't even pvp. They are whales who want to stay as far away from pvp as possible.

While i know some people will cry about todd howard here, ive heard from the people i know who have tried the game that its actually ok

I'd play it if they didnt carve it up to force a sub and have all the cool shit in the store only

But DayZ fucking sucks

>F2P
Ruined it.

are they really dying? i think FF14 has just sucked up all weebs and casual nerds.
mmo players are basically casual nerds. not really gamers, who want to interact with someone else. they want to chat bout some nerd shit and hang out.

modern nerd contents are very anime/manga influenced. actually western nerd contents are just dying due to sjws and strange business models like the big 2 in the comics industry. so they just come to get together in a place that looks like it has many like minded people.

The west doesn't support MMOs besides wow and ff14 because:
>WoW has been the largest for so long that it has had time to shit out tons of content
>FF14 is juuuust different enough in that it's basically a single player game and you're never encouraged to interact with other people
Look to the eastern hemisphere and there's still tons of MMOs that are really populated. Korea, obviously, but even japan still plays a bunch of 20 year old MMOs.
Mobile games claiming to be MMOs when they're all autocombat shite is a big problem too.Also the term "MMO" being corrupted in general. MMO now refers to anything with more than like 5 people on screen at once (Even if it's only in a hub) as opposed to hundreds. So literally anything that comes out now with multiplayer elements is an MMO. People call warframe an MMO when it supports 4 people ingame at once. What a fuckin joke.

Isn’t every game like that these days.

There’s a new Trials game coming out today with XP, daily challenges, and loot boxes. Fucking TRIALS, a game that was perfect for $15 on XBL.

I just want Tibia 7.6 and RO back.
>mfw I never experienced SWO

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>Death
>All MMOs today make more money and have bigger player populations than all MMOs from a decade ago
I'm sorry but what the fuck are you even talking about?

I don't see why anyone who works 40 hours a week minimum would want to spend what little time they have at home to play a giant time sink that also requires you to pay monthly to access it.

I'd rather play mobile games or a buy once to play game that I can finish on my own time.

It is not about how a game sucks or not.
It's about some elements that worked in it and made something interesting and what we can learn from it.

ESO is pretty popular in the west too. Or at least the servers are packed any time of day on the NA servers.

Monster hunter is what the genre needs for its combat, not world style though, but classic monster hunter where damage numbers are hidden.

MMOs have been stuck in this rut were everyone is rushing to get away from tab targeting combat, but the action combat meme has only made things worse because the NPCs are just big punching bags that shit damage circles on the ground

>People call warframe an MMO when it supports 4 people ingame at once. What a fuckin joke.

this part pisses me off the most and even in the hubs they max out at what 200 people that you can only jump and emote around thats not an mmo at all

is this real? was a physical copy actually sold for RO and was across so many disks?
hell even WoW wasn't on so many disks

Most people play PvP games.
The leftovers are on dead mmorpg

EULA involves a clause that allows the dev to pursue legal action against dataminers

Damage meters, forced socialization(vent/discord or gtfo) and casualization killed mmos. People had more fun playing these games when they weren't getting screamed at by tryhards or forced to voice chat with everyone.

ESO is hardly popular. It's sustainable, like the old republic, and star trek online.

There is nothing interesting in ESO compared to any other MMO in the market, if I want to play TES I play TES.
They could have done so much more, but, nah, theme park.

Eso is trash. The class/skill system is legitimately one of the worst ever put in an MMO

>forced socialization
Why do you want to play MMOs alone?

>he actually believes this
>When the most successful MMO in the world in 2019 is a fucking old school browser MMO.

Most MMOs lack anything to set them out from the pack. 90% are basically variations on the same basic game play template that's been around since WoW. This would be fine if they could make up for it with good story or interesting quests, but many don't even attempt that.
Pick unrelated. Secret World is great.

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dunno about korea but korean mmos are dying elsewhere

Playing online games with tons of people across the world was a novelty in the '90s and 2000s. Now massively multiplayer can mean millions of people playing, but not necessarily all in the same space. A lot of people also wanted to get over the core gameplay of MMOs and play less grindy games where their progress isn't weighted against levels or gear.

just play Warframe

it was only on one cd. it installs the launcher and base game then you have to install the rest of the patches through the launcher.

>What the hell is going on with MMOs right now?
The result of constant devolution of the genre. It's been going backwards this entire time. You'll notice that most things people wish out of MMOs are things that it used to have, but no longer.

Yeah because elsewhere sucks and is only interested in WoW because "Well WoW has more content and stuff to do than this brand new game!"

AI player inflate the game population allowing beginners to experience a good game.

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Runescape wilderness was killed by whales. We had an amazing PvP environment back in Classic. Some of it survived in RS2 but then it got completely removed.

I miss it so much guys

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I dunno, the world feels a lot more alive than any other MMO, and the new chapters are excellent.

>I'd rather play mobile games or a buy once to play game that I can finish on my own time

then do it

>Secret World is the uncontested king of story when it comes to MMOs
>Combat is less than mediocre

MONKEY PAAAWWWWW

Don't try your boomer revisionism tricks here. SWG was an autism-tier simulation with bad combat that had almost nothing to do with Star Wars and was played by almost nobody.

Get your zoomer revisionism out of here
OLD GAME BAD

They were completely destroyed by cheaters.
Once devs started fighting them they though of giving the players easy access to what the cheaters could do.

Devs though that making games easier and linear they would get their players back, but by doing so they just pushed away the real fans of the games that left because of the cheaters.

but they are alive. we just call them mobages now

I think the biggest issue is that despite MMOs constantly trying to make new and interesting zones they ultimately end up just becoming window dressing that you occasionally enter when compelled by the "storyline" or if you need to do some light grinding.

How to fix mmos

Make things outside of raiding worth a shit

Easy

PvP is the one thing I hated in most mmos. I’ll grind out quests with my friends but when someone who’s put in 3000 more hours then me kills me over and over and over in one area, I quit. I’m not dealing with that shit. It’s not fun.

it's been literally gaining subs steadily since SB came out and it's booming now with BFA being a sinking ship, SHB coming out soon and the twitch prime promo

Multiple copies of the same disc ya dingus.

I don't, I just don't want to voice chat with you fucks when I'm playing with you. It was never a requirement back in the day (before WoW, and arguably even early WoW), now nobody wants to play with you unless you have a discord and a twitter account, and you'll never amount to anything in the guild unless you're social enough to enter the inner circle.

Online games used to be my escapism from the world. I could just sit back and play the game without having to worry about dumb shit. Now that dumb shit is everywhere and there's nowhere for me to escape to.

this holy shit
EVERY SINGLE MMO is basically just a fucking speedrun to cap level then endgame is the actual content. Why? Maplestory 2 is a great example, there's so much care put into that world and you never see 95% of it because you just bypass the level range for it entirely.

I didn't say a single MMO, I said all MMOs you fucking idiot. Meaning the total sum of all MMOs. Today's MMO make more money and have bigger player population. This is FACT. In fact 90% of MMO a decade ago didn't even get 1 million players whereas today it's common for a MMO to have over 1 million players (accounts) with most averaging 3 million.

if i started to play an mmo id just play FF14 and not research anything else.

the options are pretty simple and i don see a problem with it. casual weebs choose ff14 and other casual nerds do wow

FFXIV does this though
you get the best gear through Eureka which is basically FFXI-nostalgia: the game mode

lil zoomzoom needs his instant gratification, battle royales are the new hotness

>PvP is the one thing I hated in most mmos.
Faggots like you are the reason why Runescape descended from world PvP everyone vs everyone, to starting town being a safe zone, to you can only attack 5 levels from you, to PvP toggle on and off in the options, to the wilderness, to eventually removing the wilderness and making a separate arena.

There's no damn point to these MMOs if you can't put your gear to use.

>early-mid 2000s
>GM involvment with community
>harder to get banned, lots of bantz in MMOs and general talk
>player community focus due to harder difficulty and that difficulty gives content goals, a drive to continue logging on

>2010s
>get banned for literally playing a class
>get banned for bantz of any kind, exact same bantz you had in mid 2000s
>get banned for anything vaguely political
>get banned for calling out company in charge publicly
>get banned for typing depending on game devs
>community starts not typing much in general >single player MMO community growing larger, can replace players with bots and most people won't notice
>In order to appease masses all content accessable from the start, providing little drive to do anything
>without a drive to improve and see content people just get bored in a few weeks and log off
>GMs overworked and underpaid, most quit or are fired
I can go on and on, online gaming is not what it was. Difficulty is a big reason why there is a lack of drive to see difficult content. But more importantly the lack of a community in todays games really kill them. People don't like or trust one another. Whos to say that person you said something innocent to seemingly has an issue with it all the sudden and reports you? Safer to disengage and not be social at all, at that point why even play an MMO if you arent going to talk to anyone? Thus the problem we have now, dead MMOs.

>go to town center and say hi
>nobody responds

What went wrong?

GMs aren't underworked and underpaid, they don't exist. Companies straight up don't have them anymore. Nexon America has 3 GMs for all of their games. Mobile included. The rest is outsourced indians via zendesk.
NCsoft has 4 if you count the CM.

You can thank Blizzard fan boys for jumping the WoW-ship during Legion.

WoD was a 3/10
Legion was 3/10 but no one noticed because it got a mild graphics update so the scrubs who never played BC thought it was a 7/10

BFA was a 2/10 and everyone wised up

This game was so good until they decided to introduce malling.

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>every p2p game released lately goes f2p wthin 2 years
>most f2p games i've tried to play that aren't rs or gw2 have no playerbase, despite however many accounts or bot accounts were made

i mean, feel free to shoot me the name of some of those games that currently have over a million people playing them. keep in mind we're talking about mmorpgs, not shit like league of legends or cs:go.

so kinda like soulborne games?

It's the opposite problem on ESO. Every time I go to do my crafting writs, there's always 2 dudes on voice in the center of town having a shouting match and another guy playing music through his mic. It's beyond annoying.

>new chapters are excellent.
The only plot heavy MMO that I played was Dungeons and Dragons Online, which was interesting because, every dungeon had parts for each class, you couldn't access certain location as a barbarian because you didn't put skills on lockpicking, which forced you to play with other people, but, ESO don't feel interesting, because just feels like a generic TES game released by Bethesda with a shit combat, they could easily have destroyed the market with a sandbox mmo across Temariel, with all the fucking weird TES lore.
I fucking hate this industry.
I hate hardcore MMO players who speedrun across the fucking game just to complete dungeons, than get mad at the devs because they are slow at releasing content, when 70% of the population barely are at max level.
That is why Tibia 7.6 had one of the best gameplay design for a MMO.

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3 big problems plague the MMO genre right now

1: No group based MMOs anymore, WOW hit the perfect mix of soloability and group based content back in 2004, but because it became the most popular MMO on the market it became the standard, in BC when they started to streamline the game to be more solo focused and easier to skip group based leveling content thanks to rampant exp nerfs, there was no going back, on top of this their focus on this arbitrary concept of 'end game is when the game really starts' made it impossible for other MMOs to really design a strong leveling experience because their publishers looked at WOW and went "Why aren't you just making WOW?"

2: People don't want MMOs anymore, specifically people don't know what the fuck MMOs are anymore, they think that always online gatcha skinnerbox grinders are MMOs, they think LOL is an MMO, they think anything that requires you to log into a server and grind for hours before you can start having fun is an MMO. In its purest form an MMO is just a server based game that can handle hundreds to thousands of players in the same game space, this can be anything from EQ/Vanilla WOW's massive interconnected worlds, to EVE's massive universe, to SWGs player run cities and such.

3: Too much skinnerbox for the sake of skinnerbox. Skinnerbox Mechanics are a nessisary evil to keep people logging in and not getting bored with the game, this can be something as basic as RNG boss drops which is what made the MMO grind real back in the day, but everything from the most basic gameplay design in MMOs revolve around daily shit, what was the last MMO where it didn't have a daily login bonus, daily quest, weekly reward, ect, the most popular MMOs of all time didn't have this shit, and making your game revolve around these rampant systems only result in everyone getting bored because the game becomes a massive chore.

But sadly these problems still persist because people keep buying $100 paid beta trying to scratch that MMO itch

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see No reason to type. Need crafting? Nah just get free gear from some shitty dungeon you matchmaked to complete in 15 minutes. Need an item? Farm it yourself in short time. Need a class for a raid? Just auto matchmake from the main city. Questing? Faster to just dungeon que and play something else while you wait. Type to another player while in the dungeon? Nah don't want to get banned for literally anything so easier to just ignore them listen to music and talk to friends on voice chat that aren't even playing the game with you. Online gaming is dying.

Westward Journey Online 2 and Fantasy Westward Journey

Ah, I take it slowly myself. Some days I don't even do quests, just spend time crafting stuff or harvesting resources or stealing shit. I agree with you about hardcore players for any online game. MMOs, lootershooters, whatever. People that rush to the end of a game and then complain that there isn't enough content make me sick. I like to stop and smell the roses and get immersed in the world.

Fuck off, I wanted to deal with captain poopsock corpse camping me, I would just play rust.

I started to play vindictus what am I in for?

Kurtzpel will save the mmorpg genre!
Nah it won't not even the koreans make mmos anymore.

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>wait for dragon ball online global to come out
>it's canceled and the other servers are shut down
welp

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King of MMO
youtube.com/watch?v=7f7ZFgHI5SA

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Korean ARPG grinder.

I was on board for everything GW2 had to offer, until I found out the crafting requirements for ascended and legendary gear. Whoever came up with the idea of materials you can only make one of per each day and then subsequently make you need like 30 of said material is a spawn of Satan.

not shitting on you but why do I hate anime aethetics so much in my mmos

I saw that too and i told my friends I wasnt gonna do that shit especially since there are other just as cool skins and they said "what else are you gonna do"

Because you played too much WOW/Lord of the rings.

MMO quests are the dumbest thing I've ever heard. It's like people haven't played real cRPGs before.

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>tfw everyone complains about MMOs but no one makes one to address the complaints
devs are you out there
devs
HELP

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I'm pretty sure it was a free miniclip game even before it was on jewbox.

If I were there I would make it look like I was squatting over and shoving the tower up my ass. At least it would be original and probably pretty funny.

>Hanging around in Lion's Arch
>Someone celebrates in map chat that they are finally ready to craft a legendary weapon
>People ask him how long he has been at it
>He says it's been a bit over a year

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What do people see in global unrestricted PvP in MMOs? I really do not understand it.

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square enix never gives us what we really want

It wasn't so bad in WOW when you could actually trade the materials.

Fucking Arcanite Reaper was the greatest shit ever.

The problem is that the devs are catering to the normie playerbase. Heres all the problems modern mmos have:
>everything is instanced
>small maps
>rotation-based combat and skills
>role system using the holy trinity
>classes are far too balanced killing their identity
>battles are designed around having a singular way to beat them as opposed to making different classes better than others depending on the battle
>gear treadmill usually accompanied by newer gear always outclassing older gear and stats not mattering only ilvl
>circular or square arenas
>crafting is fun but it only matters for aesthetics
>generaly no depth in everything the game tries to do
>game hands everything you need to get to max level on a silver platter
>leveling experience virtually does not exist
>getting the best stuff in the game is relatively easy and can be done by spamming faceroll content
>dungeons are hallways with trash as opposed to interesting labyrinths with interesting gimmicks
>same with travelling around an overworld map, no gimmicks, just wide open space littered with trash
>trash enemies are literally not dangerous even when you’re several levels lower

most mmo players are casuals who dont really get into its mechanism/gameplay. its a chat tool or to larp as a hero like isekai anime. ff14 meets the demand.

i still dont really understand the mindset of hardcore mmo players. they are different from the average gamers, it seems.

It has its place in certain areas, but problem with unrestricted PVP is it just leads to rampant ganking and meta shit.

No MMO has successfuly added in a crime and punishment system, or a good vs evil system to allow for open world PVP without it devolving into cancer.

MMO's are dead until this exists. The genre literally has nothing else to offer that you already haven't done and had much more fun with back in the day. Virtual reality in 50-100 years is the only thing that can save the genre.

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In full loot PvP you feel like the dude in the Highlander movie.

There can be only one.

over 100 people were laid off yesterday
it cant be doing that well

Here is the true redpill of MMOs
nobody wants to socialize because you (players in general) always think the worst out of every person from the getgo and your personal beliefs get in the way in making your social decision.
>oh this guy is from X place? then he must be an asshole
>Oh this guy is low level/not a person i know? then he is probably a shitter
>oh this guy has a female avatar? then is probably a tranny or a faggot or even worse a girl who will take advantage of me

Everyone has this "im the best and i only want the best with me" as if they were minmaxing nerds (which they arent)
Or they are insufferable prejudicied retards who dont have any actual real friends or dont know how to make, or dont want to.

People play MMOs like they were single player games, because thats the devs give them.
They submitted to the playerbase in the wrong for the sake of money and keeping their product relevant.
The entire genre changed substancially and what was a "Massive Multiplayer Online game" is now a "Single player game with online interactions" like dark souls for example, cooperation and need for other people is optional, not mandatory to complete any real task.
They also wanted to appeal to wider audience since only the dedicated players could see the interesting parts of the game or atl east the one everyone wanted to see (the endgame). which led to the simplifaction of both world, storytelling and combat/encounters.
one of the best examples of this is when Blizzard introduced 10m Raiding and LFR in WoW, both during the apex of the games relevance.

Thats why every MMO is a casualized fest that barely has any player interaction. they listened to the wrong crowd, they wanted wider appeal for the sake of money and by consequence of this the norm changed and now everyone is suffering from it.

Depends on the game
In vanilla wow it was great becasue it was new and exciting for a lot of people me included after that It was something dickholes did to grief others

Talking to people who were into DAOC/shadowbane where it was an integral part of the game it was nothing shot of amazing coordinating attacks and defense and makes me hope CU is good

mmo's are extremely same-y and stale, not to mention time-consuming. ''level up and get gear'' has been done a million times over and is lame

Similar purge of non-essential positions that Blizzard committed, no one from active development teams got fired.

This honestly sounds terribly awful and would probably just make the genre worse.

I don't know if you're full of shit or not because I haven't played an MMO in a while to check, but I'd guess it's because people are playing mobile games which are actually just like MMOs but much more successful. I also don't know why you'd buy a subscription before finding out nobody's playing it, surely there's a trial period where you can check.

MMOs became more about mindless grinding and skinner's box versus sharing adventures and community. Until immersion re-takes priority in MMOs, it will remain a dead genre.

I love the idea on paper, but it never works.
The idea is that its like a real world and you can do whatever, including being an evil bandit. Ideally there would be far far fewer bandit players than ones that hunt the bandits, but that never happens in games.

Open pvp games always result in KoS immediately or else you'll get KoS'd first. No one can be assed to go after the gankers, and there are twice as many gankers that get off on making others upset as there are people willing and able to stop them.

It also falls apart because the pvpers will always metagame and use the strongest pvp shit and then you stand no chance when you're just playing the game normally.

Gaming has been ruined by a few things. This is all from my perspective but I believe them to be true:

Around 2007 normies and girl gamers invaded our hobby landscape. Dudebros with their Call-O-Duty and girl gamers with their "omg Teemo is so cute xD" styles of play really soiled gaming forever. Girl gamers tore the brotherhood bond we had in games because most don't even know the touch of a girl or the warmth of love, so they're going to put that pussy on a pedestal and do anything for m'lady, changing the meta of games. Dudebros just massively outnumber us and force companies to make games for said majority. Picture related, a normie "reporting me" cause I played the game and he didn't like me camping his level 6 ass on my level 35 (Capped) in a shooter MMORPG.

Matchmaking. In the old days you joined a server to play a game on and you either became part of the community or played different servers till you found your "favorite." Well current gen can't figure that shit out so the devs made "matchmaking" a thing to match you with a varying degree of factors. This means everyone you encounter there is no reason to get to know them, you'll never truly improve your game as you'll rarely ever encounter players many tiers better than you, and with forced win % rate (Overwatch) you can literally afk and still get around 48-52% win rate cause an algorithm is pitting you in a (barely) favorable matchup when you have a loss streak. Most gamers are far too timid to join a lobby, they want a machine to do it for them. Remember the old Starcraft days? You'd join a lobby and have a game going within a minute. Now matchmaking can take 10+ minutes to find suitable players whom you'll never bond or have experiences with. See: Dungeonfinder. No one ever speaks. Everyone is just soulless robots.

Casualification: Game mechanics have gone down the drain in difficulty. See: Starcraft 1 VS 2, any modern shooter, etc. If you were into e-sports in the 90's you'll

cont...

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How so? Just look at how well VRChat is doing, now add RPG elements to it and throw in the ability to feel like you're actually in the world.

How would that be worse?

They are the most bland, soulless genre ever created whose only purpose is to extract as much money as possible by skipping the grind or making items exclusives.

I've had a friend who was really into blade and soul and tried to get me into playing it. Dropped it after 5 hours, it's absolutely dreadful and uninspired.

Tldr op. Make mmo for the people that like mmos rather than for the people complaining about a mindless grind. Those are the kind that just want instant gratification and just don’t understand the kind of adventure the “mindless” grind produces due to the world.

the tweets i saw were from devs that had been there 15+ years

Daily shit
Quests, Rewards, Lootboxes, Boost, ect.

Fuck that shit, it spams your UI in every modern MMO with popups and makes it impossible to figure out the UI as a new player because half of your buttons are to bring up some cash shop or system that you don't unlock until end game, even fucking vanilla WOW hid the talent tree button until you hit level 10 to keep the UI clean and functional.

And daily quests with incremental bars to fill, fuck that shit.

Daily rep grinds in WOW are the worst offender here, I would much rather just kill 5000 fucking bears for their shitty feathers, then guide 5000 fucking turtles to the water, but with a limit of 20 turtles a day, at least the fucking bears dropped cloth and greens.

Back in the day you might go on the internet and play these games to find new e-friends and meet people who enjoyed a shared interest. Now there seems to be a prevailing attitude of "well all of my real friends are on the Internet now, I can just talk to them, why the fuck am I gonna talk to some stranger in a game? Let me grind in peace".

>What the hell is going on with MMOs right now? Everything that isn't WoW or FFXIV is dead except for Runescape,
>now
How new are you?

Dofus Monoaccount is about as close as old school MMO as you can get

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youtu.be/wBfWs3-BCvU?t=68

Remember this game?

I can’t see my character and it would just make the game into a goddamn glorified chatroom since all people would be worried about is aesthetics of the character they can’t see. Also shitty erp.

i remember it falling off the radar

Okay but these games being Massively Multiplayer is a conscious design choice. You can't use the "Any game is fun with friends" excuse when these games are designed and built around interactions with other players.

The problem with MMOs today is that they are NOT built around interactions with other players. They quite literally are single player oriented games that typically "are fun with friends".

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>Everyone has this "im the best and i only want the best with me" as if they were minmaxing nerds (which they arent)

there is absolutely nothing wrong with that

Dream MMO:
>Sandbox
>action combat
>Different types of "endgame"
>Non-combat focused classes/jobs
>NPC interact with the player using random quests
>No plot
>Every content can technically be soloable, but requires a level of autism beyond normal human
>PVP-server and PVE-Server for casuals
>Crossserver PVP
>World regions have different PVP rules, City = safe, distant location = friendly fire on
>Guild PVP
>Item/Experience lost upon death
>Weekly and monthly PVP events
>No dungeon instances, everything is global
>Player housing
>Guild housing
>Custom crafting for equipment
>Interesting setting

Fuck life.

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Just because it's VR doesn't mean it can't be third person. Ever had a dream that was in third person? Also, you have two conflicting arguments.

>I can't see my character
>People worry too much about aesthetics
Sounds like you're just a contrarian, broski. Arguing for argument's sake is pretty dumb.

My dude have you seen most the the pugs in WoW trying to do LFR and low tier mythics in wow? Nothing but wanna be elitist faggots that want to be carried through it all while doing everything subpar

Do you have citation for them being actual developers and not community managers, PR people or concept artists (which Anet probably had a surplus of)?

Sounds like every online game released in the past 5 years. You must be in heaven.

thanks for reminding me Never Ever quest existed

you'll notice a HUGE skill difference between the kids back then and the kids now. Back then you had goblins, neckbeards, and true autists filling up the e-sport scene who were truly wizards at what they did. Check very old Quake tournament VODS (If you can find them) VS today's Quake players and the difference is astounding. Yeah sure back then there was no drug tests on pro-gamers so they were all adderall'd up but half the early year SC2 kids all were doing it.

Web 1.0 VS current web: Back then you had to read hundreds of pages of FAQ's and unlisted webpages for all the best gamer tips on how to git gud at stuff. Now days all you have to do is watch a few youtube videos and you're all set. When everyone is equal at a game there's not much to experience honestly for PvP based games.

Politics in vidya: Remember when you could talk shit in a video game and they'd talk shit back? Oops, some fuckwhit quit paying his monthly dues cause his feels got hurt, time to enforce a rule to never let anyone talk shit ever again across any game. Trolling, talking shit, etc all ends in "reported :^)" because it's the hardest hit you can deliver. Sure you'd get kicked from Christian servers for cussing in voice chat, but you had thousands of other servers to play on. Now if you get reported enough an algorithm dictates you're a bad man and locks you out of playing for WEEKS.

Cell phones. Back then you needed a desktop PC to get shit done on the internet. Now most people use a smart phone. I get weird looks when I tell people I don't have a phone. Why do I fucking need a phone when I have a gaming rig I can do shit on at home? If I'm not at home, I have no reason to be on a fucking phone. With mass phone use, comes all the time eaten up by social media, cell phone games, and youtube / reddit. Back then people did NOT have social media or youtube to browse. If you wanted to download a video you had to download the raw file, usually hundreds of megs, and hope

cont...

>mmo
>all soloable content
>item/experience lost on death
>global dungeons

you are truly retarded

Then explain the ~100 layoffs at Arenanet?

Everyone in FFXIV just idles in towns while chatting on Discord or whatever, I barely even get responses when I try talking to people. Fucking Mabinogi has a more active public chat in town centers.

Ironically these are what keeps the game alive

what kind of pasta is this? it's disgusting, can you stop please

>MMO
>even considering stuff to be Soloable
fuck off retard, you are the cancer.

NCsoft throwing a hissyfit because the game does not produce expansion launch profits at all times. By all accounts, GW2 is a successful game but successful is no longer enough for the corporate cocksuckers running the show.

>back then there was no drug tests on pro-gamers
Actually I've never ever heard anyone mention drug tests at modern electronic sports events. Do they really exist?

>games suck now because i can't call people meanie words.
Yeah it sucks but it's not what's killing the games, and honestly, anyone who spergs out hard enough to get banned usually deserves it.

Pic related.

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only them saying they are i guess they could be lying but i dont see why they would

So, basically a custom UO server?

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and hope that you had the correct codec to even watch it.

Also not every game had multiplayer stuff. Remember when the only console to have online shit was Xbox and PS2 with an expensive addon?

Finally, good games had large player bases. Most Blizzard games, Age of Empires 2, etc all had MASSIVE playerbases cause they were the top games of their genre to play.

These days every single "game dev " is using trash engines like Unreal 4 to make their buggy shit ridden turds. Triple A studios waste too much resources on graphics and SJW correctness to give a fuck about gameplay. At the same time if someone made a spectacular game with piss graphics all the dudebro normies and e-girls wouldn't fucking touch it, and the remaining nerd-cucks who were gamings original native people want the puss too damn much to waste time on them.

I'm even guilty of this. When I was a beta blue piller I wanted to be friends with dudebros and get some pussy so I played games like CoD and LoL cause girls / dudebros did, and I KNEW I was better at them than their shitty game so it made perfect sense for me to pursue.

Doesn't deserve it. It's just fucking words like grow a backbone dawg.

The skinnerbox cancer became too invasive to the game design of modern MMOs.

>fantasy MMOs are typically based on D&D
>But now their dungeons are just linear boss rushes with daily loot rewards

If you just made fucking D&D style dungeon crawling as the main part of fantasy MMOs again you'd probably get all the people who have quit MMORPGs and moved onto D&D/Pathfinder

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Nothing wrong with that. I hope I ran into kids like that in a PvP MMO.

youtube.com/watch?v=-yXUQ7YWIPU

Those people probably have LinkedIn profiles. Should check them for their credentials.

It was, point is they perfected it on XBL for $15 standalone. But the new one is a meta-RPG with leveling and gacha mechanics. It’s a fucking nightmare.

unfortunately

i dont care enough

>you will never play ro for the first time ever again
>or flyff
>or rose online
>or maplestory

You should build a time machine and buy UO on day one.

This.

Most games want the player to be some sort of demi-god super hero mega-fucker who has a gorillion health points and can nuke small planets while being able to fly dragons and instant-transmission to dungeons with other demi-gods.

Gone are the days of being a regular schmo who has to work for MONTHS to get a dagger upgrade.

Remember when "epic" gear was actually "epic?" You'd be in some bumfuck forest and you see a goddamned warlock with a full epic set and be like "DAYUMN HE SCARY DAWG." but then realize you were a rogue and could kill him naked w/ stunlocks? :D

If I created an MMO it would have absolutely no pvp.
Or maybe ALL pvp
I don't know, alls I know is that it would be the sweetest thing that ever make your dick tingle and it'd be online.

Trickster Online really was a great RO clone.

I played erinia and kept signing up for a free 7 day trial when I was an underage shitter.
I think most people are just desentisized by now.

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universal auction house killed mmos.
if you must have an auction house have it be city/town based.
that way you can have fun transporting items for one town to another and playing the markets.
its how eves stayed fun despite being a snoozefest spreadsheet simulator.
theres no fucking point in talking to others to trade when you can just buy from the auction.
theres no point in going back to old underleveled content once youve out leveled it and everything located in that area is worthless low level vendor trash.
toss in a local trade hub and now theres a reason for highleveled people to go back. maybe even socialize with some noobs.

Yes, and that is a nice first step, but it'll never go beyond that because the devs are too scared of upsetting the status quo.

Literally kill yourself.
reddit.com/user/SwoleBenji

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>Minmax babies and the drooling retards who follow their word like gospel and shun anything that isn't the meta build.
As much as I try not to be the "you're playing it wrong" guy this shit triggers my autism hard. Like nigga, close the wiki and play the damn game.

novice network is where all the chatting goes on. it's the world chat of ffxiv.

i want a game like you see in anime.

>pvp everywhere, even in towns but guards will fuck their shit up if they attack you
>dying has consequences
>no bind-to-account items. everything can be traded
>no instanced content
>friendships matter
>reputation matters
>pker guilds, pve guilds, merchant guilds
fuck why can't this exist?

Yeah, like any of you fucking nerds could make a better game than current WoW.

>Real and Immersive Virtual Reality
>Cyber sex
>Robot waifubots and artificial wombs with DNA customisable babies
I was born 50 years too early

it might in about 70- years when vr is actually good

Also, anti-pker guilds. Like, guilds who exist to protect players from pkers and hunt down people from pker guilds

My dream MMO currently would be one of the two:

Somehow make the MMO in the vein of a "cartoon" where there's all sorts of wacky hijinks going on and nothing is too serious. Characters literally die and come back the next episode and nothing really has much altering "canon" or progressive story. Players will always experience hilarious randomness in their adventures, or trials,. or whatever. Think SpaceStation 13 levels of cartoonery. One day the AI on the ship goes bad and is murdering everyone, the next day there's a fucking jedi fighting against a literal evil wizard, and the next specific players are now "traitors" and have to kill the normies. Each day would be different with different outcomes and different scenarios or ways to go about winning / resolving. Sure you can't have EACH DAY be unique but imagine logging on and being like "I don't like alien invasions" so you play something else or you play a dude who just serves fresh burgers (made of people that died to the aliens or something I dunno lol.) Make it F2P and let people unlock skins / classes / characters like in Dead by Daylight or something.

2nd dream MMO would basically be Goblin Slayer esque. Basically D&D but players are pretty "grounded" on their abilities and skill sets. Wanna be an archer? Sure. Shoot bows and craft and dungeon raid till you get a badass bow. Murder another player and take theirs, whatever. Just DISCLUDE super epic bosses, maybe make it perma death or "drop gear on death" and make the "gear grind" obsolete with normie swords / armor being JUST FINE but if you get a magical sword you're suddenly 1-2 tiers higher on the adventurer ranking, and can easily solo weaker enemies, but is SUPER RARE, like raid for a month to get a magical ring super rare, that you can lose if you get gangraped by goblins then that goblin has the magic ring and is a real bitch to the local farm.

Why do people post my reddit shit? It's fun to troll / karma farm for advertising there.

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I wanna play that Korean MMO Diablo Clone, forgot the name. It looked cool as fuck 8 years ago when the first gameplay came out.

Google nasomi ffxi.
Tons of players, 75cap

Path of Exile?

Play tibia, there's still some fun hidden beneath all of the "modernization".

Huge redpill. The other day a dude asked "hey anyone here I can trust" and I replied. We're now partners. This as well:
>People play MMOs like they were single player games, because thats the devs give them.
You need to have the need to talk to others.

Wait for Camelot Unchained.

I found it, I literally typed korean mmo diablo clone in google and it popped up.
youtube.com/watch?v=LL5zGvsmSM0
Heres the trailer, 5 years old, fuck.

I know what youre talking about but I honestly dont get the hype its just an arpg with korean graphics which isnt a bad thing but people seem to go insane over how its not in the west yet

It has but people don't like half the shit you wanted.

i picked up everquest 2 like five years ago and it's some of the most fun i've fucking had with an online game, getting lost in its dungeons (that had no ingame maps so you had to be familiar with the interior by just fucking learning it) felt goddamn fantastic

>tfw nobody remembers RYL

The last time I trusted someone in an MMO, I lost $80 worth of stuff and quit the game. Never again. I will always think the worst of everyone and offer absolutely no help to anyone.

I did the same recently. Blew my god damn mind actually haveing to remmeber which way I was going in some of these dark as fuck places with mobs that can be a threat

It's moving over to mobile. So it's not dead. OSRS and Albion will be on smartphones and they are perfect for the medium.

It just looks so fucking neat. I especially like the number of enemies on screen and the physical interaction. Since the other user mentione PoE, one of the things I disliked about it compared to D3 was that interaction. It looks kinda lame when your beating on badguys. Lost Ark looks meaty and awesome. But I know it will be grindy p2w crap. But still... I will cling on to the 1 ply toilet paper scrap of hope stuck to my metaphorical shoe.

lol u fucking retarded dude
lol

Right now SWG legends has 2000 concurrent players. Not bad for a game that's actually supposed to be dead.

Already exists but it's mostly shit nowadays

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Everyone spawns in a different place with no main quest

if you're still playing it, i strongly suggest just taking your time and feeling out all the early content as slowly as possible, either through turning off your exp or playing different characters through different "paths" through zones, because there is a seriously monstrous amount of content and you'll outlevel most of it really fast

Hello cancer.

PvP everywhere can be real bad if the server is plagued by Russian zerg guilds. Think of Rust before the safety towns.

Dying had consequences in Ultima (And runescape "wild.) which I am totally on board with, but normies will NOT play it, nor will e-girls so it will have a low player count.

Not having soulbound items means dupers / hackers / exploiters / extreme farming will ruin any meta, any grinds (Player retention), and any sense of accomplishment in the blink of an eye. Whales will P2W everything. Happened in that Star Wars MMO (The old af one.) A player named BruceLEEE basically duped god-tier stuff and billions of credits. Ruined the game.

No instanced combat is good and bad. The bad is when zerg guilds control 100% of the content and normies quit out of frustration.

Friendships can matter if there's no cross realm or sharding. Same goes for rep.

Archeage had PvP, PvE, merch, etc guilds. PvP'ers always came out on top cause they'd just murder the merchants doing trade runs, PvE'ers couldn't do fuckall outside dungeons and PvPers could do dungeons with all the loot they took from the merchants.

Your genre going the same road the arena shooters and RTS gone. Deal with it.

No end game

They need player generated content. Like let the evil faction build up their dungeons for knights to attack, and let the good faction build up towns and castles for the evil faction to attack

Mobile Runescape with a workable UI.

How do you lose real money in an mmo

I still can't fucking believe SOE/Daybreak are mad enough to keep releasing new expansions for EQ and EQ2

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Oh no they made MMOs that are real MMOs, the issue was that these games were too hardcore for casuals and exec's wanted games to be like WoW because they wanted a slice of WoWs pie. Casuals killed mmos. Casuals and their massive market are why eve online, star wars galaxies, DAOC, and archeage are all dead and the only MMOs left are WoW clones.

Yea im seriously considering getting a sub so i can have a bunch of slots and maybe play on the progression servers

Equivalent, as in if I sold the items and then sold the gold, I would have $80.

hello tard who lost money in a video game!

would you believe one of the more recent ones, even with all its crazy inflated numbers and gear actually takes steps back towards more oldschool gameplay by removing all quest markers?

kunark ascending is some wild shit sometimes

It came back because of full on waifu barbie appeal for women and trannies and full on WoW clone

No one's figured out how to make an MMO that's actually fun and skill based to play instead of just maximizing exp and raid efficiency

Must be a shitty game dominated by poor brazilians then if you can get away with that.

The adventure needs to be worthwhile, not the end game, although it should be fun aswell.

Also the generic fanstasy race archetypes need to go, I want highly exaggerated characters like lizardmen/dragon kin or like naga’s from wow, shit I’d love to be a huge kabuto humanoid beetle, but allowing people to play as non humanoid shit would be nice too, jelly creatures or 4 armed creatures, just different shit

EO is dead because there's no game in there. Where's the fucking gameplay. Sitting in a blob and pressing F1 like a mong doesn't count.

You probably deserved to have that shit taken from you for being so stupid, you know?

As shitty as GW2 is, it was pretty skill based on paper in its first year. But leave to fucking Anet to not capitalize on that and worse, remove any skillful aspect from it in the following years

Juast cant believe this shit got postponed. Again.

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if you can get a couple friends (2 or 3) into it, enough to construct a functional party, it's totally worth getting subs for everyone and playing through all the quests and storylines and dungeons, you can even do raids and still have them be a challenge by just coming back to them when you're like 5-10 levels over the mobs with upgraded gear, since it'll put you on par with handling them as a 3 or 4 man group (best to test these as you go so you can find the right power level to try them)

there is a motherfucking huge amount of content in that game, and so much of it is undocumented me and the friends i played with are still finding shit we missed sometimes

redpill me on it

Archeage did this, but it failed cause zerg / heavily militarized guilds just dominated everything.

The game had an island where the big bois would make castles and could raid eachother. Oops, big pappa zerg wins 100%. Big papa zerg also controlled the questing area where people could grind out materials for end-game weapons. It's great if you're part of the zerg but if you're a social outcast then you'll have to skip that content of the game forever.

Archeage killed itself when it let thunderstruck trees be buyable for IRL $. I'm still fucking salty.

Some turd will make websites / hacks / youtube videos showing tards exactly how to do the quest.

Old WoW was fun cause I'd gank kids like a real serial killer or farm shit with a farm spec that no one used. New WoW prevents ALL this.

playerauctions (dotcom) you can sell anything in a game easy-peasy. You only get caught if you boast about it to IRL friends and they report you out of spite cause you won't buy them chipotle.

What if the "end game" was random, like a cartoon? "Oh no the evil X is at it again with his menacing horde of X monsters. Gather your party and go to the land of X to find the Y and get Z to destroy the evil X."

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You're right. Trusting people you don't know in real life in online games is pretty dumb and anybody who says otherwise is naive, so his whole point of needing to think better of people is moot.

Don't respond to me or my posts ever again, filth.

>Legends of Aria (UO clone)
>Chronicles of Elyria (Eve but fantasy, player run kingdoms and real aging)
>Ashes of Creation ( Archeage but good)

High tier fractals are still pretty fucking challenging, not to mention some of the raid encounters. You positively need to know your class inside and out and not just spam stuff off-cooldown to have any hope of clearing content like that.

Wife 3 years ago, baby 9 months ago
House 24 hours ago

unironically this

Is that when you lost those things?
That's sad, man...

I did t4 90’s on my zerker longbow warrior and it was pretty easy, people just don’t know mechanics or there proper rotation.

MMOS by design are all garbage and if you play them you had low tier taste in video games. They waste time for nothing.

If you're male, getting married is a terrible idea.

I recommend everyone not super rich or privileged get a vasectomy. Saves you all the stress of "is she preggo" every time you fugg.

Buying a house is a bad idea unless you can afford to buy like seven houses. Now buying three houses and renting them out to pay for your 4th is redpilled. I personally don't believe in "owning" a house though as I prefer to live nomadicly.

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The t4s are easy. It's the cms

I made 60k a year playing WoW which is the most I've ever made from doing anything in my entire life.

(Account selling, gold selling, power leveling, content creation, PvP tournies.)

>Two (2) tripfags in this thread
What the fuck?

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A combination of devs not trying, Failing to realize the resources required to sustain an mmo, failing to understand how many players will hit a server, failing to understand netcode tricks that last generation MMO's used to get around shitty cheap servers, failure to improvise and the chinese invasion of everything new and shiny.

NPC's man. Why not tripfriend as well? Don't have a unique personality? Don't need / want friends? I've posted here daily since Moot linked it from SomethingAwful (Since day one.) so I might as well make at least ONE friend while I spend time here.

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Play deadman on OSRS if you want that experience you filthy casual.

There is an industry wide lack of netcoders, everyone in the game industry is stuck using proprietary engines and this severely limits what they can do as an MMO.

This is why many "MMOs" that come out today are lobby based ARPG chink grinders.

Also the China Boomer Bubble is a massive cashgrab by anyone willing to cater to that market.

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by the way if any fellow EQ2 bros are still paying attention to the thread in spite of the tripfaggotry, i'm going to be awake for another hour or two and i have a tricked out tailor so i can hook you up with some 40something slot bags

i'm not really actively playing right now but i'm willing to log on and craft to help some brothas out (assuming you're on the antonia bayle server)

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runescape and mabinogi came closest. you do thing just for the sake of doing thing. leveling up is just a bonus.
all they have to do is make everything between level 1 and max not worthless. the basic skill should be useful. not the base skill is worthless until maxed and then its finally worth using

I filter every tripfag when I see them on general principle.
Amazing how they never have anything interesting to say, but they want to make damn sure everyone knows who said it.

>TFW Huge tracts of trees in the illegal mountains that caused massive PVP Battles in the early days.

Tell me, how did Trion fuck up something so basic as not being a complete and utter ass fucking jew?

Sorry friend, but you're wrong. Early MMOs had no instancing and limited PVP. They were all killed or overshadowed by the later games that added instancing and "better" PVP. Tryhards and nolifers ruin non instanced content since they will ultimately control it and gatekeep casual players. Only once a game is able to create and actually support a massive world, one where even a few hundred to a few thousand nolifers can't effectively dominate will a game have a chance of non instanced content again.

You sure do talk a lot of shit.

>I made $60k playing WoW
>I was the first 4channer ever
>I'm the best at making investments
>I'm the most redpilled motherfucker on the planet

I wonder what you're like in actuality?

gimme that name and ill just send you a mail

Disgusting loser with no/awful personality seems like a decent bet desu

character name should be "Kekipi"
like i said though, i'm not really active on it right now until my other friends get in the mood to jump back in (and one needs to fix his computer), so it'd be easiest for me to just jump in now, make them and trade it to you

if you can't though, just send the mail or give me your character name and i'll do it when i get home from work tomorrow morning

The more a MMO player runs his mouth the more based he is. Deal with it.

That's exactly what it was. They released the NA content way too fast. By the time most people did their weapon grinds the raid castle shit was already live.

It really sucks for the thunderstruck tree purchases though. Players went from doing donkey runs to straight up driving cars, which you cannot gank unless you also have a car.

I personally grew tree farms out of bounds or glitched under terrain. None ever were thunderstruck, but I happened into a random one once and was immediately rich. I traded it to get carried by a guild for every end-game raid setpiece at the time.

Right now I'm a neet that just lifts weights, sleeps, and occasionally trolls multiplayer games. If you're not into that, it's whatev.

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Don't do this. Join Eden instead.

Meanwhile, his actual accomplishments are:

1 twitter follower
10 youtube subscribers
2 steam friends
6 steam games, some free, of which he has played nearly 100 hours in the past two weeks.

But hey, at least he has those upboats on reddit.

Its very very simple. MMORPGs didn't go anywhere. They simply left PCs and consoles and went over to mobile.

MMORPGs were the get-rich-quick scheme of the early 2000s. Now that scheme is gacha games.

>get-rich-quick scheme of the early 2000s

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHA

I started a new name case my old 300k channel was mega-dox'd and I got swatted.

My last two MMORPG was Black Desert Online and Tree Of Savior. Both game had the potential to be really successful but they didn't, sadly.

BDO
+ Great PvP, non-instances world, action combat, fun nodewar
- Zero PvE, very grindy, too much RNG, gear-based, terrible siege war, poor class balance

ToS
+ Great art and music, fun, class diversity
- zero endgame, HACKERS/EXPLOITS

I wish someday will come an MMORPG just like APEX Legends that came out of nowhere and be no1 game.

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Why the fuck is having Twitter followers an accomplishment? I consider it an accomplishment that I don't use Tw*tter.

How's Everquest these days?

Twitter is great fun to talk some shit on.

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Social media replaced MMOs for normalfags.

We're talking about an egomaniac who's desperately trying to prove his worth on an anonymous image board while tripfagging. For someone like him, numbers like subscribers and followers are definitely an accomplishment, of which he doesn't have any.

I just wanna find like minded people to troll video games with. How you gonna do that if you don't have a username?

I get it, your life probably sucks and you have no gf or muscle development, maybe you work a shit job or have a lack of money. Who knows?

I offer to redpill anons to greatly improve their life. People like me didn't exist back in the day and I want to help those climb out of their rut while having epic gamer moments.

I understand a lot of tripfriends shitpost, but where's my shitposts? I'm just here to be a cool dudebro that talks vidya.

I get it. It's the "cool" thing to hate on tripfags. Whatev, do what makes you happy bruv. It doesn't really effect me at all. I'm not just gonna go away cause a few randoms are insecure about me having a user name or posting on reddit for lulz.

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Larping on twitter replaced MMO for me.

Been playing the Eve the last 2-3 years. Still finding and learning new aspects of the game, it is super deep and complex. Nothing else matches it.

Playing devil's advocate but click based numbers focused combat systems are popular (inb4 WoW) because it allows you to keep hand on the keyboard to type in chat.

MMOs were at their peak when they were basically a paid alternative to Facebook. Now they've taken all of the things Facebook does for free and continues to charge for them instead, so everyone just goes to Facebook anyway. The gameplay was never good in any MMO, it was always a social escape.

SKINNER

>hear awesome stories about eve online
>try it out
>play for a few hours doing missions. bored
>go to low sec trying to find someone to fight. spent an hour looking, found nobody
>go to nullsec trying to find someone to fight. spent 30 minutes looking. found nobody
>making my way back to hisec
>finally find one person
>he destroys me before i even know what the fuck is going on
>go back to the starting system i was in
>get my ship replaced
>do missions for another couple of hours
>randomly shoot people in hisec and get blown up by the space guards over and over because i'm bored out of my mind
>quit
Maybe it's fun for other people, but that shit is dull as fuck to me.

Truth, I came over from GW2 and having a blast right now

How would you go about changing "rotation-based combat and skills"? That's just maximising your DPS. It's not like in Dota where you plan to hold a couple spells because your allies will use theirs first or because you're saving it for another enemy. Enemies die quickly in Dota and cooldowns are typically longer, so using it at the wrong time sucks.

The only MMO I played a lot was WoW, but aside from bloodlust for bosses, all my spells would come off in a matter of seconds. I'd be handicapping myself and my party if I didn't use everything in an optimised rotation. Maybe MMOs should start to include more enemies with strengths and weaknesses so your spell usage changes depending on what you can encounter. Can anyone who played other MMOs chime in?

youtube.com/watch?v=hLsTRUqKjBg

Is Second Life still a thing in 2k19?

i forgot which MMO but many people complains if they have to auto-attacks if all their skill on cooldown.

EQ2 doesn't really have a "rotation" but you will use your skills and spells with different levels of priority, and this can vary based on the amount of cast time reduction/recovery you have

you'll still probably lead off every fight nearly the same way, and depending on your class you might fall into mostly the same sorts of skills depending on what needs debuffed and when, I play healers though and they're very reactive and have lots of damage abilities you want to weave inbetween your support so you're running at full tilt, and since this takes you out of any sort of "rotation" that might have existed it'll shift your priorities when you go back to dealing damage depending on what's on cooldown and what isn't

it's like a more complicated game of whack a mole where you can die

EVE is like an already-established industry in the real world.

... This. This is a fucking great idea. I know every fucking inch of a WoW patch before it even comes out. Do this and no PTR and you could actually do interesting shit again.

>Minmax babies and the drooling retards who follow their word like gospel and shun anything that isn't the meta build.
This shit is the worst cancer of this generation and killed pretty much every online game for me.

Eve is a game that's fun to hear about but not to play

I've not played ESO at all, but that post you just made actually makes me want to try it.

Not if some sperg data mines it anonymously. How you gonna sue third worlders / people with no identity tied to their posts?

It's good for the current model but it doesn't actually do anything innovative.

VR chat, with stats and shit.

We don't give a shit, kindly fuck off or go to /vg/, retard.

A MAN CAN DREAM.

Just cause you don't doesn't mean everyone doesn't. NPC much?

I hate the idea of a character that never has downtime from casting spells. It just seems ridiculous picturing someone standing still but rolling across every spell key until the enemy died. Maybe if lesser enemies could be more threatening and forced your character to dodge attacks, while spells required standing still for channeling, that would be a good way to break up monotony. Also, different ranges on spells and making mages actually have short range spells so they need to move closer for certain abilities.

I never played EQ2, but that's a good point about healers -- they're inherently reactive. Healing seemed really easy when I tried it in WoW, so I'd at least fool around with different damage spells before people needed heals. Regardless, something needs to be done to make DPS classes more reactive too. I'll never go back to WoW as long as the game plays the same. I watch my brother play sometimes and it's the same as it was 5+ years ago.

You have better dedicated loot treadmill games, you can ERP you gay shit in discord, esport games scratches the competitive itch and for actual gameplay there is just superior games out there. WHY should I play MMOs?

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Fuck me I miss GM events.

>play neocron (old sci-fi mmo)
>Do random quests with a friend, he gets a mission to go up to the penthouse of some building and deliver some goods
>We go up there, there's a big fucking dude in a power armour that locks the door behind us and says we've been arrested for conspiring to overthrow the mayor of neocron

>wtf is this

>There is a trial in the town square, everything is announced in general chat by GM commands and the whole fucking server shows up

>The trial is obviously a sham and they needed scapegoats
>We get sentenced to be executed
>Taken to the SNAKE PITS
>GM asks if I have any last words
>13 year old me plays a female (to look at sweet female ass) and I yell that I'm pregnant with the mayors baby and that's why he wants me gone
>Crowd murmurs
>GM throw me in, I fight valiantly but in the end I die
>Server goes apeshit
>Everyone calls my char a hoe after that for being loose with the mayor (which was a fictional character anyway).

GM events were the shit.

More elemental weaknesses and armor types need to be used. They shouldn't be reserved for "hardcore" games. If people really can't deal with different armor/weapon types though, maybe incorporate armor and spell shield differences for enemies. Maybe mages could deal more damage to high armor enemies while weapon-users could deal with spell shield enemies. I dunno. There's a lot that can be explored in casual games though.

Secret World tried something akin to this back when Tokyo was first introduced. People hated the enemies having shields so much that they reverted the entire system and now it only exists as part of a main story mission in the Orochi Tower.

youtube.com/watch?v=jeN6anFp5zU

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this is why i love RO. You want to kill fire monster effectively? craft fire armor and water weapon.

>There are people who blame dungeon finders for the deaths of mmo and want them gone
I understand that before they existed in games people had to talk to eachother and that encouraged socializing or whatever but fully removing them is a retarded answer to that problem. Spamming map chat for 40 minutes hoping someone decides to fill the last slot in your group was not fun in the slightest. There has to be a middle grown.

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I think the main problem is people dont know the labels for casual and hardcore anymore.

casual now is anyone who can barely put in the bare minimum for something and hardcore is anyone who tries to learn the game

>Minmax babies and the drooling retards who follow their word like gospel and shun anything that isn't the meta build.

>dungeon drops ilv 380 gear
>min required gear to get group is 385

>middle grown

MMO with Mount & Blade combat Yes or No?

>You want to kill fire monster effectively? Grind for 700 hours to get the right cards and equipment to kill it better
Fixed that for you.

I don't think they're the problem, more of a consequence.

yes but it wont be successful

New MMOs are dead on arrival

Consequence? Of what, low player engagement? I remember during an interview the with wow developers they said that adding dungeon finder increased the amnout of people doing endgame content exponentially.

more like have a merchant to steadily make money buying and reselling consumables in front of dungeons so you can just buy the cards on the market when you need them

farming for those drops yourself is accepting that you're doing something masochistic because the rates weren't created with solo farming in mind, the idea being they will drop "eventually" for "someone" who you can then try to get it from

I really hate themepark leveling. Literally worse than Hitler.
>You have to save the world!
No, I don't want to save shit, I just want to explore and kill stuff.

does this count as a MMO?

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SHUT THE FUCK UP

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vapormmo.mkv

That's hilarious, not sure how people can get hurt by those comments

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What are the chances of a pvp thrown simulator mmo like pic related surviving these days? Also how the fuck is BDO the exception to the rule of pvp focused being dead as fuck? And dont mention eve online, thats not really pvp focused.

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>Kekipi
OH FUCK I CANT SEND MAIL MY ACCOUNT IS TOO LOW LEVEL

>:D
Opinion discarded

give me your character name then and i'll mail the bags to you tomorrow morning sometime, it should still let me send

its more of an arpg.

Farfa

Ekethai

The combat is horrible. Its autism mode clicking and timing to do animation cancelling and keeping buffs and debuffs with a few seconds duration rolling constantly and swapping between the two action bars. The only people who like ESOs combat are turbo autists who like to do rocket science to kill each mob and people who play it like Skyrim and spent 30 seconds to kill each mob instead of 2.

Problem with shit like crowfall is its too much of a minigame when it comes to its core design

There is having a PVP centered MMO, and then there is a PVP minigame centered MMO, EVE is a PVP centric MMO where everythings players do effect one another, Crowfall is just a battleground game.

>Why not tripfriend as well? Don't have a unique personality?
You are exactly the shit that ruined this site

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im real

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i gotchu
going to bed, then going to work, i'll git 'er done when i get home from that

I think we all need to just acknowledge the fact that WoW/Everquest type MMOs was the best the genre was ever going to push out(Honorable mention to EvE I guess), and that we have to just realize the genre is dead in it's tracks.

How is ROMobile?
Heard it was pretty good for a Mobile MMO from some other user

MMOs also went from 1000hz tic rates to 50/100hz in those years.

They turned into loot cycles and hallway dungeons after WoW. For actual exploration and discovery in a vast world you have to go back to Asherons Call, EverQuest or Final Fantasy 11

EVE is not an acronym, and WoW was great at the time but when almost every single MMO afterwards became a WoW clone, it and every other MMO that copied it became stale and needed to die. The real problem with MMOs is that there's very little variation between them, and whenever anybody tries something that isn't a WoW clone, they do is to horribly that it crashes and burns and nobody else wants to attempt it.

>and hallway dungeons after WoW.
Too bad randomness in dungeon layouts never caught on with MMOs to negate the need to 'speedrun' the minmax route.

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Are there any mmos that are actually a grind nowadays?
Something like maplestory where you're not fast tracked to level cap in a day, leveling is the game

Or atleast a game where getting gear doesn't involve doing one shitty boring raid a week and then fucking off till the next week, I want to actually play the game for my shit.

>current day mmo for impatient entitled babies
>queue up and match make into a dungeon/raid with people you will never meet again
what happen to the social aspect?
back when I played most players on a server knew each other
feels bad man

>Like ffxi

11 was so much better than 14 I don't even think I can visualize what that would look like.

How is it similar?

>Nobody ever made an MMO that was also a good game
Literally Ragnarok you dumb nigger.

>which is basically FFXI-nostalgia: the game mode
I don't remember XI having same-level monsters that fucking one-shotted you because you didn't put 5 elemental defense on, or a monster every fucking square meter of the zone, or hitting a button every second for 30s to kill something.

Sounds like you need to git gud, casual.

Because city of heros is dead and I will never stop being mad

Ffxi had the best fucking zones Jesus Christ

Seriously
I hate it when people compare Eureka to XI

I already beat all of Eureka if that's what you're implying. Doesn't mean it isn't terribly designed/balanced content.

>Hey let's scale the NM HP off the current player count in the zone, that's fair for the 20 people trying to kill bunnies while the other 124 afk at the start waiting on Ovni/NM pops!

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It's basically a series of 144 player instances made to emulate an open world map.
Mobs are extremely more powerful than normal, they aggro on sight/sound unless you're 2 levels higher than they are, soloing mobs on your level can actually kill you if you're not paying attention, soloing mobs higher than your level may as well be impossible, it's incredibly easy to die while trying to get around the map and if you die, unless someone ressurects you, you lose exp and can delevel.

Killing certain mobs spawns notorious monsters and you kill them for crystals and shit to make relic weapons and armor etc

The newest eureka added a raid that's more oldschool and not really anything like the other FFXIV raids, it has up to 56 people, if you die inside you cannot be resurrected without healer lb3 or a special skill created with an item that also kills the person that used it, to get in you have to kill a notorious monster that spawns 48 portals, anyone can take them, they also put absolute virtue in it but he's a joke.

Also you start at elemental level 1 and have to grind your way up to 60.
I'm not sure I can say it's anything like XI since I didn't really play it but it's definitely like playing a different (better) game entirely.

XIV 1.0 had some pretty nice zones too with crazy maps
>take one wrong turn
>get skewered for 9k from a giant Scorpion
Shit was brutal

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I miss playing Everquest 1, ganking filthy shorties and stealing their boots... just to drop them somewhere else in the zone.

>added a raid that's more oldschool
It's literally a linear corridor alliance map with PotD style gimmicks thrown in. No rez allowed for extra casual-scrubbing.

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I've always wondered how XIV picked up the hugbox community that it did when the game is filled with so many social justice unsafe messages.

>they also put absolute virtue in it but he's a joke
How insulting
Although I guess they didn't have a choice
XIV players wouldn't be able to deal with something with XI's Absolute Virtue
Hell XI players couldn't even deal with it for the longest time without exploits

Too bad it's pretty much a dead game nowadays on life support, even with the current devs trying to recycle old content as new stuff. Even the last real zone they added to the game was a sign of the times, with giant black voids of emptiness eating away at the land in the distance.

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Really no. I played ro at release and it was fun but not because it's game design was perfect. It was good because first mmorpg, community was still good in early days before wow and setting was fun. The moment novelty &community went down the drain the main selling point was gone. Tree of Saviour tried to replicate it post-wow but couldn't gain the same success. Was it a worse game? I would say no. It's just the players who changed and didn't respond to it anymore.

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What?
A couple ago the developers announced that XI subscription numbers are actually increasing (much to their surprise)

That sounds awesome.

Never heard of the game, but I wonder when that was. These days I think most gamers have come across spell/armor shields even in their most casual games, such as Fortnite and Overwatch. I think games overdo it when there's a million HP on a boss and you still need to break 5 million HP on a shield. Smaller numbers with intelligent design for enemies, including HP and shield regen.

tree of savior is a much worse game in everything but gameplay tbqh, and even that is debatable since tos balance was so fucked up and many classes were clunky as shit and kinda useless.

Every fucking person that replies to the fucking tripfag is just as bad as said tripfag

I can easily come up with something that's less complex than 11 and more complex than 14. This looks like a metaphor for Riot/Ubisoft balancing.

mmos are like mobile gacha shit: boring cash grabs designed for addicts.
the main difference is that gacha shit only requires an artist to make pngs while an mmo requires a lot more work than that, so it's not hard to see why the former won out in the end.

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PROJECT: GORGON. You're welcome senpai, it's pretty good.

Even replaying maplestory in a pserver nowadays is fun, so it's not that the people changed, it's that the games are dogshit, or the companies behind them are, or both

this game came out last year, but retarded Koreans gatekeeping as usual.

user this is an MMO thread.

Well there needs to be something that maintains the playerbase beyond playing through to max level and getting fully geared (or whatever it is they want when they reach end game). Otherwise the game should just be released as a single-player game or the servers will die.

Microtransactions for cosmetics and minor exp boosts are fine. Think that's what you mean by gacha shit. Competitive ladders are good for keeping competitive players around, but you'll need to have seasons and rewards implemented. And everyone should be guaranteed a reward to encourage even the shittiest players to try it.

I'm trying to think of what made Halo 2 so popular back in the day. Surely there was something more than just "all my friends are playing it". Maybe FPS games are inherently more fun than RPGs. Maybe it's the randomness in every game or the fact that every game can play differently. So how about having a mix of randomised dungeons and static dungeons? You can even have dungeons where there's a chance of facing an enemy party, or maybe you can't PvP them, but you're racing them to get to the end. All these companies need to do is sit down for more than 5 minutes and braindstorm. I came up with that last idea while I was typing this post.

Anyone know of any games where you find other parties in dungeons/instances?

ESO is the most popular MMO after WoW and Koreashit. FFXIV is a Yea Forums meme and dead as fuck at the EU.

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Balance wasn't a thing in ro either. Too many had no idea how to build their character and wasted stat points making their char useless. In what way would you also consider ToS worse aside gameplay? The art design was on point.

It was introduced a couple of years ago, around 2015 I believe, back when the reboot (Secret World Legends) didn't yet exist. It was such an elaborate system that the update released with an in-universe tutorial video.

youtube.com/watch?v=gZkYqKO1XeI

Everyone is just an ideas guy.

DB are actually alright, they've done some good things to Planetside 2 over the years too

Only increased a bit relative to the past two years, and a lot of that is probably people re-activating their dualboxes despite Trusts being more than adequate enough for most solo business at i119. Yoshida is still paying the game no extra budget so they can do something that would be sane, like dropping POL, or increasing the bandwidth threshold of the server so it can actually use more than 4 kilobytes per second per player so it doesn't take a literal minute for it to load all your inventory after zoning.

more like not everyone has the resources or will to do it. The only people I know of that do are the 2 people behind project gorgon

MMO, RPG, DIck Sucking SImulators, they dont mean what they used to. They call it an MMO, so I roll with it.

Too bad its fugly.

And you're the reason why this thread exists and why MMOs is a dead genre.

>plays wow unironically

That there dont make none of no sense, user.

I feel like that issue was way more pronounced in ToS, having ENTIRE classes that were just fucking useless no matter how you built them fucked a lot of people.

That and the leveling process can't even be compared, ToS has a typical quest2cap leveling system where there is nothing to do whatsoever at the end.
Also, the game ran at about 2 fps the moment you had more than 5 people around.

I still liked the game a lot, the artstyle and music were definitely really good, but other than that it was just awful.
I actually had the most fun back in ICBT1/2 when leveling was much harder since quests didn't let you sail all the way to cap and you actually had to grind quite a lot, it gave me that old MMO feeling where leveling was important and you met a lot of people just through partying up to grind, not gonna lie I feel like the game would have succeeded if they had just made quests few and far between and had you grinding to level up.
I'm a firm believer of leveling being content, instead of just a pointless chore on the path to endgame, it's what made old games like maplestory and RO a lot of fun compared to the newer stuff we have.

>Posts D3 clone
>Calls it an mmo

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I had some fun with it, put in maybe 150 hrs but it's too fucking crowded and combat is repetitive garbage

There's a finite audience for MMOs and already too many on the market. The idea of making an MMO to take players from other MMOs usually doesn't work.
Its like, why would I play Homefront if Call of Duty already existed?
Theres also the whole making MMOS easier and easier thing to the point of baby-proofing them. Which I kind of understand because MMO players are borderline caveman in the thinking skills department. But it makes it boring to play in the end.

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>Game calls itself MMO
>Call game MMO
>You killed MMOs
lmmao

Isnt RO mobile alive as fuck my man? Maybe check that out.

>PVP
Fuck off just play a shooter instead you fags have ran this genre into the ground so hard. I appreciate MMOs as one of the few game genres that promote cooperation and community over competition.

I read the entire thread up to this point and also think you're a faggot. You're not special and nothing you have to say is going to make any difference in anyone's lives, let alone the shitgoblins and reddit immigrants here.

1. Remove main quests. Stop with the special snowflake chosed one dragon slayer that will save the world that every player is.
2. Player characters can start anywhere depending on their customisation (orphan, beggar, commoner, noble, have a family, etc) and the country they live.
3. Can roleplay as anything you want. Players can and will replace NPCs and combat is not something everybody need to do
4. Death has consequences: you drop all your items and your character dies. You start playing again as your descendant and if you don't have one, you play as an orphan
5. Mobs don't drop money, you get them by working, trading or completing side quests
6. No general level, but profession based level

Is it available on america?

Because the gameplay is the same as 20 years ago.

Where do I state I'm special or give a fuck if anyone thinks or doesn't think?

That reminds me, there was supposed to be an inventory revamp a couple years ago that looked dope
Wonder what the hell happened to it

I see. It seems overly complex at a glance because they've got so many terms unique to their game, but it's really not much different from the majority of gamers learning about Pokemon types and weaknesses. It reminds me of when I played The Witcher (can't remember which) and at first felt like there would be too much to learn with so many different enemy types and having to learn which spells AND which potions were effective versus them. Really though, it wasn't hard at all. Maybe the difference there is that you're introduced to 1-2 enemies at a time, so you learn as you go.

Everyone acts like a whiny bitch when change is involved. It must be human nature to fear and and be skeptical of change. But give people enough time to adapt, and they will.

You're doing everything you can to collect internet ego points while trying to "redpill" these fucking retards with shit you yourself parrot from other idiots on this website.

You want to think you matter, but you don't. Nobody does.

I have played MMOs for more than a decade but I don't miss the games, I miss the experiences like meeting new people while doing low level grind, exploring huge world's with many monsters and bosses, seeing a high level player do some crazy shit like hosting a mini event where he gives stuff to other players.

You can not experience those things again, you have already seen most of what a MMO could offer at this point. I'm not a fan of the "SAO is the future of MMOs" but they are right, there needs to be something ground breaking or well implemented ideas.

Now, that doesn't mean you can't make a good MMO now, in my experience most of the new players quit because there comes a point where they realize they can't catch up with day 1 players for the wrong reasons:

>Items needed for progression are locked behind the cash shop.
Cash shop should not limit the player experience but just make it easier. I've seen many games where you can't do late game content because you don't have (cash shop only items) and because of this new players have to grind for in-game currency to buy those said items from other players but the new players can't get in-game currency because no one wants them in their raid/dungeon parties.
>Instances locked behind a daily timer.
Good luck trying to catch up
>Absurd RNG.
Don't get me wrong I love the RNG factor in MMORPGs but why have the roulette of a boss consist of 80% trash items that are character bound.

But we are all made of matter

I don't care if I get twitter faggot followers or whatever. I just want to help fellow anons get PUSSY and not be TIMID GAMERS who will openly grief and torment dudebros and thots.

That's it. That's my mission.

A couple years ago? Aside from mog wardrobe (+$2 to your sub fee for 80 more slots usable in combat, +$4 for 160), all they did was re-arrange the order the inventory loaded so it prioritized filling out your usable spaces first (inventory > mog case/card/wardrobe > useless shit like MH/storage/locker)

...or are we?

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The big brain play is to make a successful single player series and release a multiplayer game set in the universe 2-3 games in. Takes ~12 years for a smaller studio, but you'll have your successful multiplayer game in the end. Wait too long though, and you end up with a mistake like the millionth Call of Duty trying to cash in on battle royale. People were already sick of CoD by then.

If theres a bunch of space btweeln atoms adoes that mean whe are mm,ade of space?

Neverwinter is still good.

>everyone copies WoW
>you have perfectly fine distinct games that suddenly 180 into a WoW clones

examples: Runescape 3 mabinogi.

>2. Player characters can start anywhere depending on their customisation (orphan, beggar, commoner, noble, have a family, etc) and the country they live.

This motherfucker, and even further, you should be able to make an impact living anywhere. I cannot put into words how much it hurts me to see so many comfy towns and small cities be ghost towns because they're not the capital where everything is concentrated. I to yo go ask the the help of the famous hunter of [mountain town], or hire the infamous assassin who is said to recide in the slums of [desert city]. I want to seek out and challenge the Sword saint of [border city], I want to get into petty fights with the faggots of [neighbour village] because of our ancient rivalry.

Wrong, we're made of energy

Then use anonymous influence like the rest of us you stupid faggot.

pure nostalgia

>3: Instant gratification babies
fuckers

Can't make friends to play vidya with to raid and troll normies with as an anonymous.

Can't share experiences or share a unique personality without a tripcode.

Can't form roots and build relationships without a tripcode.

Can easily filter the NPC scum from the based redpilled individual thinkers with high IQ and big dicks by using a tripcode.

Youre made of faggot.

>TSW combat was shit
>SWL combat is even worse
>Gearing in SWL takes forever unless you pour money into it
I love the game's story, but holy shit is it a grind.

korean mmo are either WoW & grind or just grind.

>bdo face all the monster in tutorial, grind timeslots of the tutorial monster with more hp, unlock the real game to regrind the same monster only now they are poo skinned and have more hp

fuck koreans.

>Nobody ever made an MMO that was also a good game.
RuneScape

Honestly one of the major problems is destruction of community in the MMOs.

The whole point of MMOs was to be able to do things together as a band of friends, and experience epic battles with them, and that this was worth paying for.

WoW right now is basically a single player game you have to pay for every month, and it's clearly destroying the game's future.

I've made plenty of friends here, you just exchange information.

Nobody cares about your unique personality

Who the fuck are you building relationships with if everybody else is anonymous?

This last line is a good example of why multiple people have taken time out of their day to explain WHY you're a faggot. You talk like a petulant fucking child who has been here for a year.

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this
bdo is beautiful
there is no meaningful grouping. No meaningful dungeon experience. It's an autism grind simulator with no purpose.

I would blame reddit in there somewhere
>game info not on website
>game info not on official forums.
>fan sites slowly stop getting info
>everything moved to reddit
>getting game info require reddit, patch notes on reddit.
>guides on reddit
>gm is on reddit.
Now it is on discord, and you gotta check every meme channel, and pinned thing and scroll and search it is terrible.
MMO problem is simple, at the start the game is fun then endgame is all that matter, and MMO devs cater to endgame, cause cash whales, but they neglect the newbies which are there subsidize the whales or end game fags in general. the neglect new blood, so eventually there are less mats that the new blood would sells, and people just start leaving cause prices inflate.

not to mention the introducing normalization on items so they didnt need to work as hard so they could take their daily 2 hour lunches at chilis killed any sort of wonder character wise.

City of Heroes 2

already happened /happening with city of titans

I've been here since day one of the site. Not under this name of course. I trip'd under a different name. I made friends with that name. It's worth it if I even make a single friend.

Good luck, you unlikable little shitstain

maybe Blizzard layoofs look insugnificant, but Anet just dropped tons of important devs: dungeon, raid, zone, pvo designers, writers, even jumping puzzle guy.

>city of titans
You mean the game that hasnt released anything playable in 6 years?

Shitty dungeons and dailies you grind everyday isn’t content. In EO you had a huge sandbox environment to fucking make your own content and go on adventures and make your own goals and pursue them with or without other players, it’s why when people talk about EO they talk about intipricate scams, politics, diplomacy, piracy, massive wars , fixing the economy/market, interesting shit that involves the player and community and when people talk about other MMOs they talk about ERP and brain dead raid. dungeons aren’t content it’s skinnerbox shit they shovel out for brain dead zoomers like you

Pre-potential maplestory with post-big bang EXP curve.

pantheon or camelot unchained being good

literally just play reboot
current level 200+ is more of an actual game than maplestory ever was

Potential grinding is still ass, as well as new cancer classes.

>minmax babies and the drooling retards who...
What are you complaining about here? In most mmos you're spending months grinding that character to make them .0001% stronger a day. It only makes sense to follow builds to make sure you don't gimp them from the start.

The issue is the game's designers not balancing classes and builds out to all be desired one way or another.

they only make like 1 class a year now if that and to be honest at least they're trying to make unique and weird shit even if illium was badly designed and not fun to play along with being weak as heck
as for potential grinding i dunno it depends on outlook
i like that i have to actually work to get stronger but at the same time it does take a bit too long sometimes and going from 9/6/6 unique to legendary with a decent stat roll is fucking aids and can cause so much stat loss
tyrant starring however can fuck itself

I want to like RO:EL so much, but it was so fucking shit. I know korean grinding is ass, but the way they tried to circumvent it just made everything so much worse. Every map was nothing was 4-man parties, 1 player and 3 bot accounts, running around hogging all the farm. The worst part is that no one even interacts because it's all automated.

Don't even get me started on the P2W cash-shop trash.

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Every class is literally the same flash jump / teleport damage everything on screen starting from 3rd job bullshit. There's nothing unique about them, and the amount of tedious dailies is absolutely unacceptable. Arcane river, Root abyss, scrapyard, world tree, commerci, daily cap events, all are forced bullshit that are designed to maximize player hours rather than enjoyment.

I've been playing on Northdale WoW and it's been pretty fun. It's supposedly filled with chinks though but I don't mind. I just wish I could get a chink gf that would play with me. :(

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oh so you're one of those people who probably played thief or mage during pre-big bang and didn't realize how fucking aids playing warrior or archer was i see
nevermind then nothing will convince you that the game had to actually change

as someone who lost years and years on mmo, being addicted for real, i say this guy is right

>I played something for years and years
>it wasnt good

How do you people function?

His point still stands though. As long as games are designed with "everyone should be able to do everything so the players don't get frustrated" in mind, then eventually all classes really will become the same, just with different aesthetics. It's not like a MOBA where you pick complementary characters.

Sick strawman retard. Find the exact sentence in my post that said warriors and archers should get 0 mobility.

Why disregard the single thing that sets the genre apart the most from standard RPGs? The social element is part of the game.

>Where there is nothing to do whatsoever in the end

This is and was really not true, the problem was a lot of players crossed their hands and refused (and still do refuse) to engage in the end game content because it wasn't and isn't as immediately rewarding as gaining a new level or a new skill.

Age of Wushu 2 will save us!

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>Have to wade through oceans of jews and autism to get mandatory equipment modifications
>Have to wade through oceans of jews, autism and elitist dicksucking just to get a clan with all research, let alone do important shit and succeed (Profit-Taker, Tridolons, Nightmare Alerts, Sorties that involve the word "SPY")
It's an MMO when you force me to get involved with more than 4 people total through my hours of playtime, and the devs are too shit to scale content down for solo players 99% of the game doesn't need this but still. If I didn't have to deal with spergs for Profit-Taker? I'd be on board.

You can trade the materials in gw2 too, people just have double standards

>jobs didn't exist 14 years ago
>only kids played mmos back in the day

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>playing chink garbage
>playing the works chink genre wushu

>forgetting about ESO
don't sleep on it, it's way better than at launch and has a consecutively growing playerbase, also no subscription needed

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the actual good mmos went f2p and died off.
dcuo is unironically the best mmorpg out there right now yet there is like only 200 people playing it. im surprised they're even making new raids and open world hubs still.

the game has a surprising amount of depth to the way skill rotatiions and roles are handled, the quests and open world zones aren't boring, full voice acting on every single quest, even in-game cutscenes and its easy af to get into the storylines since its being spoonfed to you.

whats the last mmo you guys played where you guys actually cared about the story? nobody reads that shit, they just accept quest and follow the marker on the map.

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I played the trial, my characters looked dumb and then i stopped playing.

>not even attempting to join a pvp corp when that's what you're trying to do

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>implying
The only thing that became a job was the MMOs themselves.

WOW is a prime example, if you wanted to waste 20 hours farming furbolgs on the weekend to learn some crafting recipes you could, now if you want rep you have to log in every day and grind out every world quest you can for that faction, which will only get you 2-3k rep at most.

People had jobs then, people have jobs now, the difference is the game is now a job and no one is going to pay $15 a month to subscribe to an MMO just to play it like a job.

Would have been better as a single player rpg with a multiplayer option. Just like TOR.

It may be terrible, but it's better than real life.

I couldn't get past the god awful tutorial shit.

but players can't do everything with every class and that's why i'm sick of this shitty fucking argument that i see retards parrot constantly. most of the warrior class tree is still fucking shit at mobility and AoE compared to thief or mage classes by design. the demon classes are the only ones with gliding making it unique to them along with both of them treating MP/HP very different to every other class in the game. illium is a fucking AoE powerhouse with a very strange stack building mechanic but is absolute shit at bossing which is why most players hate them despite how weird and unique they are. mercedes and thunder breaker are the only real combo based classes in the entire game and both play very differently, especially if you compare the mobility between the two. beast tamer is incredibly unique even if it's hot fucking trash and plays nothing like every other mage class in the entire game. shade is pretty fucking slow in terms of it's actual movement but it's ability to displace mobs and weird skills like cutting a fucking boss in half or it's utility with bind is something a lot of classes dont have. mihile's counter mechanic is unique to just them and once you really get it going you can do some fucking rad shit with it like blocking literal instant kills and power yourself up in the process. ark's momentum based gameplay based around your transformation gauge feels different to kaiser despite them both being gauge based classes and the two are both very different in playstyle and mobility
hell even as fucking archetypes thieves tend to have extra mobility compared to other classes like double flash jumps or cadena's weird chain bullshit or how duel blade can just absolutely bully gollux with their dumb clone thing or dark sight
but no dude every class plays the fucking same just because retards like say so

FFXIV probably will die soon. Probably next expansion is the last one.
And that's all cause of the community. I never saw more toxic community with such entitlement and hatred towards off meta players.

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3rd person view like mobas but walk on wasd and shot/attack with mouse click

What would be the difference?

that shit was atmospheric as fuck

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this 100%

>Remove the Massive Multiplayer part
They do, that's why they all suck ass now; multiplayer is only encouraged at the ass end of the game and everything is instances.

So I can play it offline when the servers die. I actually just want that option for a lot of dead mmos.

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The issue is MMOs never stop being a chore after a while. You reach some near maximum potential level, and run out of things to do that aren’t FarmVille tier crop management. It wouldn’t be an issue if MMOs were designed so that you play them, you finish them, you go off and play something else. Problem is they want you to play forever and pay that sub fee or buy those Shark Cards.

>off meta players.

What does that mean? People who play badly in a raid?

>FFXIV probably will die soon
Was never alive to begin with desu

EOC killed the game

It was a terrible intro to a game.

I know its tradition for Elder Scrolls characters to be prisoners, but this shit was boring.

>LOOK BIG BAD EVIL DOODS
>PICK UP A RUSTY SWORD AND KILL THE DEMONS

Yawn

I bet this shitter just another retarded tank which use tank stance everywhere and then unironically surprised why he got kicked from DF or PF.

fuck you for getting my hopes up.

It's not really going to be City of Heroes 2. Assuming it ever does come out.

Even if it does... I'd be playing alone.

>my old MMO buddy I met in City of Heroes for six years recently hooked up with someone
>no longer is interested in running MMOs together
>literally forever alone

There was only earth tower, and it sucked dick, yeah it had no reward but it also wasn't fun or engaging

Sometimes I just don't get why people don't just stick to content that's at their level, instead of bitching about being thrown out of a raid for being bad.

Sure, until you realize its another
>YOU ARE THE CHOSEN ONE
Storylines while you're running around in rags and tatters and 20 other chosen ones are running around 20 levels higher then you with a small army of demons one shotting everything

Earth tower at launch was stupidly difficult though, don't really get why people say it wasn't engaging.

>Rusty Hearts
I I had an account but barley played that game due to being too busy, now when I finally have the time to play it, it was closed down. Fuck this gay earth.

Just wait for SEGS to finish. Niggas are literally remaking the entire game from scratch. Id offer to help them but I don't believe my coding skills are any good.

This was probably already said in this thread somewhere considering it's at almost 500 posts but I'm going to say it too.

You know what sucks about games in general these days? The lack of mystery. The fact that people just CANNOT fucking wait to see the newest shit. Nothing is surprising. Nothing is interesting or exciting. A new raid comes out? There's a dozen guides about the best way to beat it within days online. A new game is coming out? There will be leaks and teases out the ass for months up until release, and then once it is released someone will have uploaded a complete playthrough within hours on Youtube. The internet fucking ruined everything. There is no mystery to things anymore and there are no solid communities in these MMOs anymore. It's really ironic that more people are on the internet than ever before and yet I feel like we're even less social on it than we were 10-15 years ago.

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>I don't remember XI having same-level monsters that fucking one-shotted you because you didn't put 5 elemental defense on, or a monster every fucking square meter of the zone
What is Chains of Promathia - Riverne - Site A01/B01
>Hitting a button every second for 30s to kill something
Due to spells having charge times that mean a damn, you win this one.

>lol i wipe the map with this 1 button
>lol i wipe the boss hp with this other 1 button
Good job playtesting every class up to lv200 fag. Stop talking if you don't play the latter 90% of the game.
Didn't read a word of your blog post btw.

That's because SE forbid DPS shaming and other stuff like that.
For example, you can't just link DPS in to chat to show a tank that he is useless and his damage is fucking low. And many tanks don't even know what tank job is to DEAL DAMAGE.
That's why they should never use tank stance that reduces their damage and should never play on DKR that doesn't have damage at all.

>>YOU ARE THE CHOSEN ONE
I won't spoil it, but the end of the main quest shits on that pretty hard and it's glorious.

I try not to hope anymore.

>One of my old RP buddies is in serious medical troubles
>Another two fell off the face of the earth and were super autists in hindsight
>others just move on from gaming
>even Mercedes Lackey from my RPC days is busy with work and showing signs of dementia.

just... let me die and let my heaven be City of Heroes as I remember it in it's hayday.

I'd also accept Pre-Trammel UO. How did either of those turn out? The problem is a lack of consequence.

>There are more people on the internet now than ever, yet [everything is dead]
This is actually the main problem of web 3.0. There are more and more people using the net and they concentrate on less and less places and even less productive on said places than way fewer people before them throughout the internet.
Also, every faggot plays shit like Fortnite, PUBG, Overwatch and stuff like that these days.

>this is what a MapleStory player looks like

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A time sink that's actually rewarding to the player.

Part of the problem is that they're making these games assuming the mystery's already sucked up. There's no room to die, get back into the level, and then try again without lengthy loading screens and a fuckload waiting. Difficult bosses just kill people instantly and most of them are just DPS checks where you have to know what to do ahead of time. There's no room for getting hit by an attack and being able to recover from it, or fucking up because you don't know what to do and being able to continue anyways.

>If you just made fucking D&D style dungeon crawling as the main part of fantasy MMOs again you'd probably get all the people who have quit MMORPGs and moved onto D&D/Pathfinder
I don't think that will happen. Whenever people design non-linear dungeons, you just ignore the rest of the content. Guild Wars 2 actually had some non-linear dungeons. They failed for a variety of other reasons, but regardless, people will just find the fastest possible path and treat the dungeon like a line anyway.

I think this is largely because the modern internet makes all of the information readily accessible on day 1, and anybody with a keyboard can instantly figure out the optimum strategy with zero effort. Back in 1999, any sort of strategy guide was just a text dump with some ascii art.

>Balance wasn't a thing in ro either. Too many had no idea how to build their character and wasted stat points making their char useless.
Are you retarded? Idiots fucking up their character isn't a balance issue, it's an idiot issue. And RO was incredibly balanced, it was the only game I know of where they balanced skills separately for PvE and PvP instead of fucking over one to appease the other.
> In what way would you also consider ToS worse aside gameplay?
Literally everything. Even the art is worse due to the overwhelmingly brown colour palette.