Thanks to JRPGs, the word RPG is now permanently associated with generic menu-based light-RPG with tedious anime plots...

At least the mix it up every now and again. A modern western RPG is almost unrecognizable in comparison to RPG of old to such an extent purists claim they aren't even "real" RPG anymore. A modern JRPG is the same shit as it's always been but with better graphics.

Tabletop games and its rolling mechanics are fucking cancerous, change my mind.

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He's not wrong. People will think some anime or story that the japanese made is amazing, but in the end they took their ideas from a western creation. Like Blade Runner and ghost in the shell.

Deviating from the original point isn't an argument user. Just because FF1 is an uninspired D&D campaign doesn't magically makes WRPGs any less uninspired.

Uhh no?

The games are largely unrelated

Tabletop rpgs are great because they allow complete freedom of choice in how you do accomplish any given task and dice rolling is the only sensible way to facilitate that.

The Matrix took from Ghost in the Shell
Art is often derivative of other sources

>Play game with infinite creativity
>Oh let me be an elf!

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Both of which took from Neuromancer (Canadian/american) and Blade Runner. I'm not saying they cant make quality things, I'm just saying they're not this overflowing source of originality many think they are.

Thanks to western “RPGs” rpgs are forever stuck with “stats and loot”
See it’s not so hard to make bait about WRPGs

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Imagine actually believing this lmao

Yeah, but the difference is the west re-imagines shit. It makes something new from something old. Japs don't do this. They just copy and paste. There's like five guys in all of Japan's history who brought something new to the country, mostly by copying the west, and then everyone else has been recycling their shit ad nauseum. There is a massive lack of imagination and creativity in Japan.

Elf, Dwarf, tiefling, dragonborn, halfling, gnome, whatever. Even human fighter is interesting because of how you choose to make them interact with the world.

They take from multiple things, even blade runner takes from things as well.
I don't get your point. Nothing is really spontaneous. All art was influenced by something.
You just learning this concept?

Well ok, you can resort to needless passive aggression.

How is that recycling
It's a franchise
It'd be recycling if each game was supposed to be its own series

Nope. Sophia Stewart wrote it in the 80s.

>Continues to put elves and dwarves in fantasy story because Tolkien did it

>the west re-imagines shit
This is false in literally every medium ever made. This isn't true in movies, this isn't true in books and by God this ain't true in gaming either.

What about the screenplay

>WRPGboomer cope thread

careful you dont cry into your monster ultra

You misunderstand my point. I actually love that it's just a D&D campaign. I think originality can be found on both sides of the world, even today. I'm a giant fan of Elder Scrolls and FFXIV's world building.

Nah, this is what comes to mind when I hear the term RPG.

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when will we go back to knights and wizards bros

That's literally true in any case. But people still choose to play tired tropes

that's a dungeon crawler doe

Only a weeb could possibly think Japan is more creative than the west. It takes severe levels of delusion bordering on mental illness to deny such a blatant reality.

How come wroga refuse to use heavy metal in their OST and direction. And rather stick to being generic as possible

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Creativity is rare anywhere. It's hard to say what place has more

I mean not in my group, but we all partake in lots of different media so maybe I'm just fucking blessed.
But can you blame them? Some people just aren't original. That's okay. As long as they play the character they want to play (without hindering the rest of the groups experience with like a rapist character I mean) it's fine.

Yes, and its what I immediately associate with the term RPG.

Just play the table top version.

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>wroga
Wrpgs

>14
>world building
Nigga what? The only time it actually did anything for itself was 1.0 and that was still a lazy FF11 rehash. Once YoshiP took over it became a lazy themepark of "hey remember that FF thing?" that's gotten even lazier over the years.
If you want actual lore and world building you'd be better off just reading through the mountains of FF11 stuff.

>thanks to think i dont like, people dont like thing i like

who fucking cares faggot.

>It's hard to say what place has more

Not in this case. It's very easy to tell the west is more creative than japan.

Oh? And what parts of FFXIV are "remember this FF thing?" Without spinning it into FFXIV's lore that's actually quite interesting and expansive.
The answer of course is Omega and only Omega.

In what way

>"Final Fantasy"
>there's more than 15 of them

The west has been intelectually defunct for decades. The movie industry has been nothing but sequels, remakes and rehashes for at least 20 years, pretty much every popular western book is either based on mythology or even straight-up thinly veiled fanfics and gaming is Tolkien up the wazoo.

Blame Wizardry and Ultima, WRPG-kun.

The creativity way

Maybe 10 or even 5 years ago this would have been the case, but thanks to the deluge of shitty tabletop podcasts that have infected the internet (Acquisitions Inc, Critical Role, Adventure Zone, etc) the paradigm is shifting

>the generic way that allows me to act like a condescending faggot without actually having to present arguments
fix'd

No, just the creative way.

Give me a example

JRPGs were better. When they started to try to get westy is when they started to go to shit.
>Final Fantasy turns into an action RPG series
>dies
>t-turn based is dead guys!

Arrival is more creative than Senran Kagura.

I don't know if you're trolling or just have no expertise in this genre whatsoever.

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Dungeon crawler chads unite

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Not really

*shits on almost every WRPG that came out in the last 5 years*

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JRPGs started off as being more Western, but became more stagnant over time. Early JRPGs are clones of Ultima and Wizardry.

Yes really.

>Arrival is a 2016 American science fiction film directed by Denis Villeneuve and written by Eric Heisserer. It is based on the 1998 short story, "Story of Your Life" by Ted Chiang,

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Early JRPGs are actually ARPGs.
The wave of Ultima and Wizardry clones (Final Fantasy, Phantasy STar and Dragon Quest) came after the first wave of Japanese ARPGs (Courageous Perseus, Hydlide, Dragon Slayer)

The reason why Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy were created, even, was because ARPGs were mocked in the West at the time so Dragon Quest was created to be similar to WRPGs, but simplified for consoles.

>shits on your cut scene with loud of fuck music so you can't hear what they're saying
still, give me x 2 already you cunts

Story of Your Life is more creative than Senran Kagura.

Arcana really had a charming UI, shame it was pretty bog standard and with horrible dungeon design for a dungeon crawler.
Based and Reelpilled

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>Courageous Perseus, Hydlide, Dragon Slayer
Literally who

Fucking zoomer

Ultima is an ARPG. The oldest Japanese roleplaying games are still based on Western settings.

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Table top rpgs are boring faggotry for incells.
Crpgs are dead.
wrpgs were always garbage.
Stay mad, cuck.

Courageous Perseus faded into obscurity but was groundbreaking for action RPG standards in the early 80s.
Hydlide isn't as obscure and is recognized for its contributions, but died at three games.

Dragon Slayer remains, and still is one of Japan's most expansive and active JRPG franchises. The first Dragon Slayer is also considered the prototype for Ys, from the same developers. Arguably more influential than Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest since it influenced both Square AND Enix.

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>mfw the idea that WRPGs are somehow light in plot and story and worse than JRPGs in this regards is unironically something believed by zoomers
truly makes you think

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>simplified for consoles
This is the only phrase you need, to understand the bastardisation of the RPG genre.

Not entirely. Some of the developers of those old JRPG franchises just really liked Ultima and Wizardry hence why they went turn based rather than the action route. Final Fantasy was created due to Dragon Quest being successful. They had the idea to make a RPG for awhile but they couldn't get it green lit due to the market not showing any want for a RPG. Then Dragon Quest came along and guess what happened after. In fact a lot of things in Final Fantasy were just either pulled from D&D or Wizardry like elemental weaknesses on monsters or being capable of using spells from certain items.

Why does that matter
Several decades have passed then

Don't forget the literally copypastad AD&D bestiary

>Ultima is an ARPG

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Outside of a few plot point, the Blade Runner and GitS are largely different. I like Razorfist as a quick fast-food YouTube meal from time to time, but you shouldn't use him as a credible source for anything other than stirring the pot.

>The oldest Japanese roleplaying games are still based on Western settings.
>B...BUT MUH SWORD AND BOARD
Friendly reminder that Hawkwind, Adams' historical self insert OG DONUT STEEL in the game that arguably created WRPGs and all the other historical ones like Ultima was a fucking NINJA ELF.

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>A character's entire history and worth revolves around twirl race
Liberals need to go and stay go.

>Not entirely
Koichi Nakamura actually says that a big reason Dragon Quest is the way it is is to specifically be accessible for a global market, hence why they went with a simplified version of WRPG mechanics when every JRPG before Dragon Quest was either an ARPG or a visual novel with boss fights.

How did we go from having to type spells and drawing our own maps to selecting a menu option and automapping?

Game looks nothing like the concept art.

>but in the end they took their ideas
Every single piece of fiction in history takes ideas from other pieces of fiction. Saying something "can't be amazing" because it takes from something else is absolute bullshit because with this argument you can throw away any piece of fiction in the trash as unoriginal garbage.

You know JRPGs come from Japan's immense love for Wizardry right?

Everything in that concept art is in the game, the concept art was specifically made to invoke the feeling of 50s and 60s sci-fi novel covers.

>Outside of a few plot point, the Blade Runner and GitS are largely different

I'd say the plot similarities between the two are largely irrelevant. What matters is they both explore the same thing. Basically, it's the ancient question is there such a thing as a "soul"? Both come to more or less the same conclusion via the same mechanism, artificial life.

If you knew about the genre enough you would knew that table top rpgs are what rpgs are associated with, normies know about its existence, it's nothing something of obscure knowledge. There's a chance in future years that action rpg dominate enough since they are the most normie friendly and morely like to sell more. WRPGs are more boring than actual table top and not many people like its style, blaming another subgenre for it means nothing.

What is the Xenogears of WRPGs?
youtube.com/watch?v=zeBqNYLD4eI

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>specifically be accessible for a global market
[x] Doubt
I would like a proper source on that, because notorious xenophobes making a game for the global market during Japan's Famicom boom is almost unbelievable.

No matter what nonsense some people come out with, consoles have always fostered a more casual, less involved, more 'pick-up-and-play' style of game and player.
When you play on a PC, you're usually in front of a desk, with a set of controls mostly fixed in place. It makes you more likely to do extra work and concentrate and focus more.

There are good and bad things to that, of course. Sometimes you want complexity, other times you want relaxing simplicity. Although, that's not to say that simple, casual games can't be difficult and challenging. I just wish it didn't bleed between the two and drag everything down.

JRPGs are the way they are because they're primarily console based
Of course there's lots of old 80s, early 90s, and a a handful of post-2000 JRPGs made for computers, but almost every developer moved to console because outside of Japan literally nobody owns Japanese computers.
Note how a lot of PC JRPGs in the 80s and 90s were more complex than their contemporaries on the consoles.

Quality of Life™

>How did we go from having to type spells and drawing our own maps to selecting a menu option and automapping?
People value their time more now that the average lifestyle is much faster.
I hope you don't pretend typing your mahalitos or tiltowaits all the time or drawing maps by hand needs any sort of skill, it's just a waste of time.

whoop whoop

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I wish we just call of them FUCKING RPG

You know that players have been changing and literally a lot of genres needed to make changes as well, right? Nearly all platforms now are wanting to put metroidvania elements in them.

>cartography isn't a skill
Now I've heard everything.

>Note how a lot of PC JRPGs in the 80s and 90s were more complex than their contemporaries on the consoles.
>A lot
Not really, I can only think of a few outlier like the PC Lunatic Dawn games or Power Dolls, which are more complex than the average console games, yes, but not THAT complex.
A lot of PC JRPGs were also ported on consoles or viceversa, Brandish 3 and 4 aren't really more complex than 1 and 2 which were also on consoles, stuff like Vantage Master is no more complex than console games that use similar board game premises like Culdcept and so on.
The main difference comes from the ideas behind them more than the console's limitations or environments, the west wasn't so different,even Baldur's Gate was one inch close to having a PS1 port which was virtually identical to the PC version outside of worse graphics and loading times.

>Thinking that writing down square tiles on a grid can be compared to actual cartography

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>Dragon Knight
Why does Japan like dungeon crawlers so much anyways? I'm pretty sure they make up the majority of RPGs that come from there for decades now.

>japanese dungeon crawler in 1991
>you traverse a dungeon with half naked anime girls
youtube.com/watch?v=i9x3G1b44OY

>japanese dungeon crawlers in 2014
>you traverse a dungeoin with half naked anime girls
youtube.com/watch?v=2EUMMudTZcU

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That game sucks and the graphics look like some PSX or Sega CD crap. How the fuck did they release this for PS2?!

>Why does Japan like dungeon crawlers so much anyways?
Because it's the patrician's subgenre
>99% unadulterated gameplay
>No make believe sim bullshit with yes/no/ironic yes/ironic no "choices"
>Doesn't waste your time with your donut steel campaign story nobody gives a fuck about
>Cutscenes or other intrusive stuff kept to a minimum
>Focuses on battles and exploration

What more do you want

the only real rpgs are jrpgs with turned based gameplay. anything different is shit and not a real rpg

based and redpilled

Because before rpg vidya existed, Japs treated tabletop rpgs as strict number games and dungeon crawlers without the roleplaying

Feels good being a dungeon crawler chad

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>instead of patrician tabletop games

I know, right? Patrician tabletop video game coming through.

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glad Death Mark is coming to PC, means we might get more experience inc ports

I love JRPGs and WRPGs. I can appreciate games for their own individual merits and don't stress over which genre is better.

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Old crpgs: Wanted to evoke a more classical feel
Newer crpgs: Mostly made by fags too sissy for metal

Most of the games largely have nothing to do with each other, if it is a sequel to another FF you will deduce that from the title with the exceptions of 7 & 10 and the Tactics games

It's not though, the odds that you swing a sword at something and end up falling on it and dying instead are way higher than they should be

You literally have a 1/20 chance of breaking your fucking leg or foot if you try and lift something despite being a well buily strength beast solely by virtue of the check system

You're not as patrician as you think you are. It would be fine if they remained separate and different. But they keep trying to be the same and taking the worst things from each side instead of focusing on their own strengths.

Is there a genre that triggers people more than JRPGs do?

Not all games will do critical failures. But you get around that by adding a second roll for the kind of critical failure. Roll a 1 and reroll on the failure table. Roll high and just miss or incur an attack-of-opportunity. Roll a 1 (effectively a 1 twice in a row) and impale yourself. Roll for damage and if you crit again like a fucking madman then die.

Fighting games maybe

Visual Novels

Thanks to JRPG, RPG will always be associated with fun gameplay in interesting world setting, rather than generic and cluttered diceroll WRPGs tabletop shit promoted by smelly zit-faced amerifats and cross-eyed tumblrinas.

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Only thing worth a shit about Dragon slayer series is the fact it spawned kiseki

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>Thanks to JRPG, RPG will always be associated with fun gamepla
The fuck. The only JRPGs with good gameplay are the Wizardry (western) clones and action games. If anything, the word JRPG is associated with “tedium but the story is okay sometimes”.

LOL maybe 20 fucking years ago you dumbass zoomer, now you faggots all think 'arrpigs' are fps games with loot.

Just two tables really doesnt cut it though, the possibility for failure on shit that you're even specialized in is way too high, like on a fucking mathematical level

this this this
ty based god for JRPGs

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patrician

Anyone can fall off a ladder and die. Anyone can slip in the bathtub and break their neck. Lots of people die just putting on their trousers.
Adventuring is a dangerous profession. When you go looking for trouble, you're bound to find it.

Crystals, user. It's got everything to do with crystals.

What are some jrpgs that play similarly to crpgs, aside from obvious answers like EO and other dungeon crawlers?

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I actually don't have a problem with JRPG gameplay, the different kinds of it (action, turn-based, weird systems, whatever). It's the writing that kills them for me. The writing and the aesthetic are closely related, if a game has shitty writing it usually has a shitty animu aesthetic to go with it. Something with good writing usually has a more normal aesthetic going on for it.

At least western RPGs aren't full of animu tropes.

it's amazing how wrpg fanboys always find a way to expose how they've never played the jrpgs they shitpost about.

Navy SEALs go their entire life without dying to shit that stupid

For a DnD adventurer, you wont last an ingame year without succumbing at least a few times to black cat niggadry

>Why does Japan like dungeon crawlers so much anyways?
Because they fucking love Wizardry. DQ is based on Wizardry(and Ultima), DQ's creator even said he wanted to make a Wizardry-like easy game and so DQ was born.

That doesn't really explain WHY, though. You just described a set of circumstances.

You are right. A 5% chance to catastrophically fail is high.
I'm sure there have been a lot of elite soldiers that have just straight up died to a stray ricochet or getting an unlucky infection in a simple graze or stepping on a mine. It's just that those wouldn't be widely reported. You'd have to delve into death records to find those.
The ones that go their whole lives without suffering critical failures are the lucky ones. They're like the veterans that managed to get through every battle in a war. Conflict weeds out the naturally unlucky.

You are seriously ignorant.

RPG is a non-genre at this point
Typical JRPGs are turn-based strategy.

Isometric RPGs are all ugly and the gameplay is trash.

I mean, soldiers have killed enemies by having a misplaced sniper bullet ricochet off their helmet and cause a death

You wouldnt get that luck in dnd though

Multiverse. Unless the game is a direct sequel (Which would be numbered things like X and X2) or takes place in the Ivalice setting, it's all different canon.

However, there are some exceptions. Gilgamesh is one singular dimension hoping entity. Every time Gilgamesh shows up, it's the same Gilgamesh. The Void is also implied to be a shared thing between worlds.

Yeah, so the Ivalice games are also slowly being merged with FFXIV with a bit of dimension hopping for NieRverse now, so there's that i guess

There are different planets, some games take place on the same planet at different points in history (3 and 8) and there are rare cases of people traveling between planets (7/10 and 9)

>some games take place on the same planet at different points in history (3 and 8

Was this ever actually confirmed aside from some side-dialog in VIII hinting about old myths?

The world map is the same

Jrpgs > western games

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thing wot I like > thing wot u like

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Multiverse is a boring solution to making an overarching canon, but it’s also officially canon in XIV so I guess that’s the answer. Although I think Yoshi has said the 14 dimensions aren’t the other FF games but... yknow

FFXIV is a bit of a mixed bag when it comes to this stuff.
Return to Ivalice is written in a way that it's basically "What if everything in FFXII and Tactics went totally fucking wrong and also had Garleans"
But then you also have Crystal Tower retelling Final Fantasy III, and characters like Exdeath and Kefka are canonically boogiemen from old Garlean bed time stories that someone may or may not have witnessed a very long time ago.

It's best to just consider FFXIV as some kind of source universe where all of these things from other universes just sort of collide and take new forms.

Why so mad wrpg-kun?

>tabletop and wrpgs
>patrician
They're autism central. And as of no surprise to anyone, only pclards like to play that shit.

Even if they aren't, the FFXIII crossover was the genuine, actual Lightning popping over to Eorzea during her own dimension hopping adventure, and as said, Gilgamesh is always the same. So there are links that exist between all the worlds.

ebin

>consider FFXIV as some kind of source universe where all of these things from other universes just sort of collide and take new forms.

The official canon in XIV is that the XIV dimension is the source, and there are 13 dimensions that were copied from it basically at the time of creation that all have divergent timelines.

Also ascians hop dimensions and also created the garlean empire so that probably where the stories came from

Multiverse was never meant to be an overarching canon in the first place. It was mainly just to be nods between titles. It was only with the merger and making things like Dissidia that they became gung-ho on doing the multiverse angle.

I'm a DRPG dicksucker David-san, I just find shitposts devoid of any worth like yours to be a plague on this site.

For once I can agree with a weeb

Yeah I just like the idea of trying to piece together a “timeline.” Not that I think there actually is one, but it would be fun to do

>Spoiler
I really really wish I could enjoy that game, but even though I finished it, I still just couldn't enjoy it.

completely agreed.