Play JRPG #1021

>So the same as western games then
Name one jrpg with better level design than decades-old western RPGs like Dungeon Master, Ultima Underworld and Deus Ex.

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>buy video game
>it's just a bunch of colors arranged in a specific order
Every single fucking time.

We're talking about visuals here

>capitalism in a nutshell
/thread

name one recent western game with level design better than those decades old games

post of the day my lad

>lmao my old boomer shit is like so well designed because it's old
Hmmmmm.....

Smt strange journey

The better question is, why is it ok when Dragon Quest does it?

Well, I wouldn't be able to name a wrpg either.

>Buy videogame.
>Have to press the same set of buttons for 40 years to beat it.

Were videogames a mistake?

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>name one recent western game with level design better than those decades old games

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I feel memed into buying this game. All reviews rated it well but always said shit like all the RPG tropes are present, and thats a good thing. It's so fucking boring.

lufia ii you fake boomer bitch

>baby's first dungeon crawler
No.

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Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals

>Play western game
>For some reason every environment texture is 4K
>Even shit like trees
>And the ground hidden under the grass

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>play WRPG #6790
>no dungeons anywhere because they're "too videogamey"

Because retards like the ones in this thread will still buy their shit-tier games because they put in a bunch of scantily clad sluts in the game so NEETS have jerk-off material.

The japanese games industry is pathetic, it may as well merge with their porn industry.

And Ultima Underworld isn't?

No boss fights as well.

Bloodborne.

>play vidya
>my inputs make things happen on the screen
yeah its cool and all but where's the soul?

>loads game
>I have to go through a series of button presses in order to get to the gameplay, which itself is just a bunch of pixels moved by a series of inputs

I swear game devs are lazy as fuck nowadays

>game so buggy that you can't even get the twin blade because everything around, and past, that point becomes a glitched mess

OOF

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soulsborne

>meanwhile my western shit that's literally unplayable without mods is so much better

i have a game for you

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you didnt play the game why would you pretend online for a bunch of fellow virgins?

Name me a single good JRPG in existence that doesn't have any of the following things:

>more than an hour of cutscenes
>Scantily clad waifus
>anime kids that cry about their feelings
>effeminate bad guys
>any references to religion
>final boss being god/the devil

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HEy geniuses, I literally stopped playing the game because of that glitch. Nobody tested that POS so I had to drop it at that point.

When you trivialize video games like this, you realize that they're all extremely dull, predictable and, above everything, unrewarding.

I can't play games for more than 30 minutes nowadays, it feels like unpaid work, it's so tiresome.

Dark Souls
Demon's Souls
Metal Max Returns
Phantasy Star 4
Vagrant Story

Chrono Trigger

There's countless, but lately I've been playing Dark Spire

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Shut up!!

Absolutely BTFO all the nip lovers in this thread

Uncharted Waters: Costa del Sol

>asked for a jrpg
>game made in japan
>released first in japan

>waah the american testers dropped the ball so it doesnt count
thats not how this works, even the eu version doesnt have that bug lol. blame US distributors not the game

>japanese game is unbelievable good
>has western setting or is heavily inspired by western themes
every single time

You just walk straight fucking up in that room.
It's only a visual bug, the triggers, and everything past that point, work perfectly fine.

Extremely based.

>absolute samefaggotry
Yikes

>Chrono Trigger

Chrono Trigger literally has all of the following:
>more than an hour of cutscenes
>Scantily clad waifus
>anime kids that cry about their feelings
>effeminate bad guys
>any references to religion

It doesn't have
>final boss being god/the devil
Instead, it has a super generic mindless alien final boss, which is arguably even worse.

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Not every time

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Final Fantasy 1
Metal Max Returns

>>any references to religion
What's wrong with that?

> these two people disagree with me
> surely they must be the same person
you're a fucking retard.

Inindo
Romance of the 3 Kingdoms IX

But if good JRPGs are allowed to have those things then what is the point of your question.

>Play western game
>It doesnt even have textures. Just flatshaded low poly models

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Final Fantasy has crosses so it doesn't count.

>>more than an hour of cutscenes
SNES version has no cutscenes. They can be disabled in the DS version
>>Scantily clad waifus
Didn't realise you were a fucking nun, sorry
>>anime kids that cry about their feelings
>>effeminate bad guys
No
>>any references to religion
I'll give you that

>turn on console
>it's just a bunch of electronic signals that create colored light on my monitor and sound in my headphones
When will they try something new?

>2 people
T. schizo

>40 years
user I think you got tricked into buying a desk job instead of a video game

Divinity: OS 2

>Soulsborne
>JRPG
Pick one. Whether you like it or not, recent successful Japanese games are all heavily influenced by western gaming designs. Soulsborne, RE7, RE2Make, AC7, DMC5, you name it. No kawaii uguu moe moe loli senpai shit that's festering in JRPG genre like cancer. And JRPGs are still stuck in the past. Just look at DQXI, it's still recycling the same combat system from 1000 years ago without even bothering to improve on it and add extra depths.

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>tfw dungeons haven't been good for at least a decade

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seething

>SNES version has no cutscenes
Just because they're not lavish CGI movies, doesn't mean they're not cutscenes. They are tons of cutscenes in CT where your control as a player is taken away.

>No
One of the antagonists is a literal tranny, IIRC.

Arpgs originated in Japan, moron.

Love these pics. They're the most concise and hard-hitting criticism of JRPGs one can possibly pack into a post, and there's absolutely no way to refute them because they're 100% true.

>left
>dead franchises
GG

This in a lot of JPN games. The enviroments are almost always boringly geometric. Even DMC5 is like this.

>Arpgs originated in Japan, moron.
The first ARPG was Gateway to Apshai, a western game.

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> what is temple of apshai

Imagine being this assblasted about Jrpgs blowing your shit out.
>D and D faggotry
Glad this shit is deader than Jimmy Hoffa.

>left
>dead franchises

>D&D
>dead

>Divinity: Original Sin 2 (a game that outsold Persona 5 despite being made with a fraction of the budget and development time)
>dead

wat

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Its made in Japan and its an RPG. Cope

FROM's RPGs are JRPGs whether you like it or not. I love when people try to say they're not JRPGs because they're full of "western influence" or because they don't fit the JRPG mold.

>take it up with Jeremy Perish
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_role-playing_game

Really, just replace just the characters with cute anime girls and watch as Yea Forumsedditors would suddenly claim it's a garbage game with bad outdated gameplay and boring story.
Which it is. But if it's not "too" anime then mediocrity always get a pass.

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Souls games are inspired by Monster Hunter and Castlevania from a gameplay perspective.

Source?

>FROM's RPGs are JRPGs whether you like it or not. I love when people try to say they're not JRPGs because they're full of "western influence" or because they don't fit the JRPG mold.

>you create your own character and assign their stats using a classless system (something almost non-existent in jrpgs, where you typically play as a pre-defined character)
>uses a stamina system (a common feature in wrpgs since the 80's, even elder scrolls had it decades before dark souls, but far less common in jrpgs)
>uses a vancian system for spellcasting derived from western tabletop rpgs such as d&d
>story is primarily told through gameplay, like many other wrpgs and in sharp contrast to jrpgs which typically feature hours of non-interactive cutscenes)
>an emphasis on non-linear exploration (again, common in wrpgs, almost non-existent in jrpgs)
>enemies are pulled straight from western rpgs (e.g. mindflayers, mimics, myconids, etc.)
>armor changes your appearance (again, common in wrpgs, almost non-existent in jrpgs)
>combat is suspiciously similar to a number of wrpgs like severance: blade of darkness
>many other gameplay mechanics and features it shares with wrpgs

Are you seriously arguing Dark Souls has more in common with jrpgs than it does wrpgs?

Even the interface design is more similar to wrpgs, with hand-drawn illustration and lengthy item descriptions.

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That was the dumbest thing since DQ8 had mostly well designed dungeons. DQ11 dungeons feel like musou stages.

>not understanding why people like Dragon Quest
eh typical westerner

> sorry, this irrelevant faggot disagrees with you
Yeah, I don't give a shit. He doesn't have any right to say what's an action RPG and what isn't.

Fuck you, weeb. That's my source.

>"dungeon" is just a bunch of floating blocks

and even good RPGs do it

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wccftech.com/divinity-original-sin-2-85m-revenue-2017/

>Divinity: Original Sin 2 Generated $85M in Revenue Last Year According To SuperData Research

And this was from 2017, i.e. just Steam, before the console ports.

Yeah man. Monhun, Berserk, and Metroid are super western

Just because its an rpg and its made in japan doesn't make it a japanese rpg. dumb weebs

So Japs do better wrpgs than the west itself? Based.

Jeremy Parish is a weeb who has no clue about game history. It's no surprise he's biased towards japanese games.

that looks like a shitty cs surf map

Haha, that's a funny joke.

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What's your YT channel?

>Souls games are inspired by Monster Hunter and Castlevania from a gameplay perspective.

>a game where you can't jump
>inspired by Castlevania

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SEETHING HAHAHA
Imagine trying to steal the opposition's stuff and claiming it's your own because you have nothing yourself.

So speed chess is an action game?

That is EXACTLY what JRPG means however. You are actually legitimately wrong.

JRPG/WRPG does not refer to systems.

Where can I subscribe, user?

...but you can jump

Dude, most people who has been gaming since their childhood can attest that they have played at least one JRPG. It's just that recent JRPGs are mostly soulless garbages that focus more on waifu and fanservice and shonenshit faggotry with tacked on gameplay. Let's have a discussion without resorting to le epic meme XD.

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And Persona 5s revenue?

>Still saying this corny shit

Give it up, weeb.

Subscribe to your blog?

>you create your own character and assign their stats using a classless system (something almost non-existent in jrpgs, where you typically play as a pre-defined character)
Shin Megami Tensei confirmed for a Western game
>uses a stamina system (a common feature in wrpgs since the 80's, even elder scrolls had it decades before dark souls, but far less common in jrpgs)
Monster Hunter confirmed for western game
>uses a vancian system for spellcasting derived from western tabletop rpgs such as d&d
Final Fantasy confirmed for Western
>story is primarily told through gameplay, like many other wrpgs and in sharp contrast to jrpgs which typically feature hours of non-interactive cutscenes)
Metroid confirmed for western
>an emphasis on non-linear exploration (again, common in wrpgs, almost non-existent in jrpgs)
Final Fantasy II confirmed for western
>enemies are pulled straight from western rpgs (e.g. mindflayers, mimics, myconids, etc.)
Final Fantasy confirmed for western
>armor changes your appearance (again, common in wrpgs, almost non-existent in jrpgs)
Ys and Xenoblade confirmed for Western
>combat is suspiciously similar to a number of wrpgs like severance: blade of darkness
Combat is lifted from Monhun
>many other gameplay mechanics and features it shares with wrpgs
Such as? You havent listed a single one yet

>open eyes
>the world I visually perceive is just arrays of energy that fall within a wavelength spectrum that my optic nerves can capture and re-interpret into the sense called sight
Gas the whole fucking industry there's no hope left.

Holy shit youre fucking stupid user

May 2018
vg247.com/2018/05/15/persona-5-golden-hits-another-milestone-with-2-2-million-units-sold-worldwide/

> he's going to ignore that the other user argued that all these systems combined make a WRPG and not a JRPG

sorry dude but you're making a very weak argument.

But none of those games share ALL those mechanics like Dark Souls does.

>Combat is lifted from Monhun
Souls combat is far more similar to Severance, which also predates Monhun by 3 years.

So, it looks like the Nipponese crafted a better WRPG than the West. Nice job, Japan.

Did Persona 5 outsell triple-A games?

venturebeat.com/2017/11/28/divinity-original-sin-2-surpasses-1-million-copies-sold/

1 PlayerUnknown’s Battlegrounds – $714M
2 Overwatch – $382M
3 Counter-Strike: Global Offensive – $341M
4 Destiny 2 – $218M
5 Grand Theft Auto V – $118M
6 Battlefield 1 – $113M
7 Minecraft – $92M
8 Guild Wars 2 – $87M
9 Divinity: Original Sin 2 – $85M
10 Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six: Siege – $67M

All those systems combined make a WRPG if the game was made in the west and a JRPG if it was made in Japan. Just like having a linear cutscene driven game about preset characters without stat customization and instanced combat makes a WRPG, if the game was made in the west
Magnificent Seven confirmed for a Japanese movie

>game with no role-playing
>better rpg

And you know what predates Severance: Blade of Darkness?
King's Field
Maybe that's a series you should look up

Earthbound

Actually Crossed Swords, which predates severance by 5 years. Bushido Blade could be argued as well

You can't just jump

>seething

> implying jrpg is a place of origin and not a genre

Are you serious?

That's correct though

Fine, then I declare first person shooters can only be considered first person shooters if they were made in the US.

It doesn't matter. Dark Souls is a JRPG by simple virtue of being made in Japan and no amount of arguing about it having western mechanics will change that. Undertale isn't a JRPG despite its obvious influence from Mother and other JRPGs. It was made in the west by a westerner, it's a WRPG.

This is why the JRPG/WRPG distinction is retarded. The terms don't actually mean anything and people just lump games that share mechanics typical to that region into either category when the reality is both regions have used all sorts of mechanics for all sorts of games. I suppose Etrian Odyssey is a WRPG because of its obvious influence from Wizardry?

>Are any of these bigger than Pokemon or Mario
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises
Sit down, autismo.

>every action game plays like souls, even (2d) fighting games
The absolute state of weebs.

Tons of people have never even encountered the explanation that jrpg is a genre, so they would never think it would be based on the name. Which is understandable, it's kind of fucking stupid that we label them this way

>play game
>it has characters

WELL FUCK THIS GAY SHIT.

More like King's Field, champ.

Why? the title isn't "WFPS"

Alright, but you would have to call them WFPSes

>Undertale isn't a JRPG
It absolutely is though.

>I suppose Etrian Odyssey is a WRPG because of its obvious influence from Wizardry?
??? Almost every jrpg uses the exact same menu-based combat system that Etrian Odyssey uses. The only difference is presentation: EO is in first-person.

>Bushido Blade/Crossed Swords
>2D fighters
Wew, you just memed yourself.

>menus are exclusive to japan
Just stop.

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SMT Nocturne.

Yes for Fromsoft, but nope for average JRPG developers like Compile Heart and Idea Factory. I really respect Fromsoft and Hidetaka Miyazaki for distancing himself and his company from the average JRPG developers who relies on tits & ass, loli, waifufaggotry, seiyuu, and other kinds of cheap pandering to sell their games. Japanese consumers are partly to blame for this because if they are not pandered to by the developers, they won't buy the game.

YIKES
ugly as fuck, my dude.

>Bushido Blade
>2D

Legend of Grimrock 2

What level design? It's just bunch of random rooms slapped together.

Thief on the other hand...

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Try Tokyo Mirage Sessions. Now those are some fun designed dungeons.

Compile Heart and Idea factory are literally the bottom of the jrpg barrel.

How is that a capitalist thing, itd be the exact same in a socialist socialist society but people wouldnt even work

>some primitive dos game made by a few people in their basement doesn't have the greatest looking interface in the world
And even then, Wizardry 7 still has different visuals for items and equipment.

And how does that justify shit like FF7, which had a 140 million dollar budget, having such a bland interface?

That loses at the very first line

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Yeah, it's 3D. The memeposter thought it was 2D.

>Live life
>It's all just atoms and energy, how boring

>hasn't played UD:BN

Lol how the fuck do they spend 140 million dollars and get a game that looks and plays like a game from 1995?

>shitting one of the most kino rpg menus
KYS

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? he's not shitting on it, he didn't even say anything remotely negative, why are you getting so defensive lol

>having such a bland interface?

Turns out bland is effective and understandable.
I mean, even the bait image used to spur this discussion is itself laid out in the table style of the Japanese interfaces.
Because it turns out that's a good format for conveying information.

What are some GOD TIER games that have NO characters? Prefereably no walls either.

>Because it turns out that's a good format for conveying information.

>jrpg inventory: have to scroll through a long list, one item at a time, while reading each line of text, to identify the item you need

>wrpg inventory: simply click the item you need. items are not represented through text, but actual images of the items, which is good, because your brain processes images much faster than text, so you can identify what item you need from just a glance

How is a jrpg interface better in functionality?

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> spreadsheets are a good way to convey information

No, they aren't. They're far more likely to make someone think "yeah, I'm not reading any of this garbage". There's a reason wall of text posts have always been mocked on the internet, and that same reason can be applied to the shit menus JRPGs put out, no one wants to read a bunch of generic text that's unlikely to have anything interesting in it.

>Just look at DQXI, it's still recycling the same combat system from 1000 years ago without even bothering to improve on it and add extra depths.
Why change it if it works perfectly?

>play game
>it's just combinations of pushing buttons

Nihil sub sole novum.

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Is the "WRPGs vs JRPGs" argument the longest running one on Yea Forums?

>capitalism rewards laziness
news to me

Orbital for GBA
You play as a planet, or maybe some other celestial body, not 100% sure and your goal is to move around space and capture smaller celestial bodies in your gravity, causing them to orbit you.
And since the levels all loop around, it also has no walls.

>Because it turns out that's a good format for conveying information.

Said no one ever.

Why do you think competitive strategy games that are about making a billion split-second micro-decisions have icon/image-based interfaces like those wrpgs?

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You do realize heroes IV was released half a decade later than FFT, yes? That FFT was on a console, thus you can't just "click" on the enemies. I haven't played Heroes IV, but the whole reason it's set up like that is 90% of FFT was using different, specific skills, not just generic attack commands.

Sure, you can whine that they could have streamlined it to two selections, but whatever. It was 1997. It's not like American games were any less clunky and awkward during that period.

Also that dumb biased graphic intentionally seems to forget you can disable "confirmation" screens in FFT. It's there so people who are impulsive retards don't hate the game when they make a mistake and click the wrong square or something.

not enough gay sex per square meter for your tastes?

>This pic again

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>wrpg
>male party member ask me if I like or hate him
>say I like him
>he fucks my ass

> implying any half serious writer would put in something as stupid as someone asking you if you like him
you've been playing way too many jrpgs

It's one of the dumbest because the terms are meaningless. They're both just RPGs made in different regions, and just about every mechanic used in JRPGs is based on something the west originally came up with anyway.

Dragon Quest is at its core a japanese take on Ultima 3.
Every mystery dungeon game is a japanese take on the roguelike genre.
DRPGs such as Etrian Odyssey and SMT are japanese takes on dungeon crawlers like Wizardry.
Games like Xenoblade and FFXII are japanese takes on the WRPG 'real time with pause' system.
And Dark Souls is a japanese take on the action RPG.
They all play differently enough that lumping them under the same banner of "JRPG" is inadequate.

It all goes back to the console RPG craze of the mid 80s to mid 90s, which ultimately finds its roots in tabletop.

>Sure, you can whine that they could have streamlined it to two selections, but whatever. It was 1997. It's not like American games were any less clunky and awkward during that period.
Heroes 4 has the exact same interface as heroes 1, a game that came out in 1995.

>I haven't played Heroes IV, but the whole reason it's set up like that is 90% of FFT was using different, specific skills, not just generic attack commands.
Heroes 4 units can use abilities and items, just like units in FFT. If anything, using specific skills should mean having a BETTER more efficient interface, not a worse ones.

Besides, there are even more complex turn-based games on PC that still have better interface than FFT.

party members in jrpgs almost always hate each other, sorry that only happen in your western gay sex simulators

>Orbital for GBA
Damn, that actually seems like a solid game. Reminds me of Osmos, which includes living organisms so it technically has characters.
WIll check it out.

>that still have better interface than FFT
But how does FFT have a bad interface in the first place?
The previous picture is retarded, because if the argument is "choosing where I want to move and choosing whom to attack is too clunky/complex", then there is no argument at all.

>And Dark Souls is a japanese take on the action RPG.

Except the origin of Japanese Action RPGs is the Japanese arcade game The Tower of Druaga

lol what the fuck are you even talking about you massive autist? shit-tier writing like that isn't found in rpgs nearly as much as in jrpgs..

>play another RPG
>killing YET another multi phase final boss with cool design and dramatic theme music
End my torment.

>Heroes 4 units can use abilities and items, just like units in FFT. If anything, using specific skills should mean having a BETTER more efficient interface, not a worse ones.
So how do you use those specific skills in Heroes 4? Do you just click on an enemy and poof, it uses it? No, you select it. Just like in FFT.

That picture is petty and you're petty for making it needlessly gay and biased. You're literally blowing a game for streamlining a basic attack command to one less selection and then doing this worst case scenario gay shit for FFT.

What it really is to attack:

>Select Act
>Select Attack
>Click Square
>Accuracy details and enemy unit details pop up
>Hit X to confirm

In other words, you hit X a total of 4 times on any given action whether it's a basic attack or a skill. Heroes, a PC game, manages to streamline basic attacks to a click, and any skill selection is the exact same as FFT other than the accuracy screen acting as an "are you sure you wanna do that" prompt.

Anyways, your comparison is gay and you're gay.

Except Temple of Apshai came years before and is a US-made game no matter how hard you try to erase history.

>make another post
>btfo OPs entire ass

Alright, now explain to my why any of these things are bad. Objectively bad, not "I aM b0Red oF sceEns, lEt m3 PEW PEW Xd"

>But how does FFT have a bad interface in the first place?
Because it does. For reference, Arc the Lad was a tactical RPG that came out in 1995 on PS1, has the same gameplay loop as FFT and doesn't require accessing a menu of any kind.

Instead, movement is mapped to d-pad/analog, while attack/spell/item are all assigned their individual buttons.

This is by far a superior control scheme.

>Except the origin of Japanese Action RPGs is the Japanese arcade game The Tower of Druaga
Dark Souls is more similar to the design of western action-RPGs though.

You think anyone in Japan was even aware of that game at the time?
Can you show that it was even imported?

Fucking
King's Field

nothing, same with fighting gods

all it does is exclude those quaint Touhou RPGs.

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Jesus christ you are such a huge faggot I want to cave your skull in. They're not the same type of game you dumb fucking faggot. That's like saying the Legend of Zelda is way better than FFT because it controls more fluidly. You are a stupid shit.

This doesn't matter at all though, since it was the first ARPG regardless of what a chink halfway across the world did, years after.

And it was such a large success anyway that surely anyone with a huge interest in videogames (like a future Jap game dev) would probably be able to get his hands on it.

>You think anyone in Japan was even aware of that game at the time?
Most Japanese developers in the 80'swere very aware of western games. For example:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xanadu_(video_game)
>Origin Systems founder and Ultima series creator Richard Garriott flew into Tokyo to have a meeting with Nihon Falcom about having Origin release Xanadu in the US, as well as having Falcom help with releasing a port of Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar in Japan. However, Xanadu contained artwork directly lifted from the manuals of the role-playing game Ultima III: Exodus. During the presentation of the game, several digitized pictures from the manual of Ultima III appeared in various shops in the game. Upon seeing this, Garriott and Origin ended the meeting and decided to sue Falcom; the lawsuit was settled out of court and the artwork in the game was changed to what appears now.[15]

>King's Field

Oh, that Ultima Underworld clone? Thanks for proving my point.

>This doesn't matter at all though
When you're talking about influence, yes it matters if the person you're claiming was influenced actually saw the fucking thing or not.

Arc the Lad isn't an action-RPG, it's a tactical RPG.

What does FFT gain by having a needlessly cumbersome interface?

>One requires to select from a three button list, the other requires to press a button in your pad
Totally a system that is far superior and not just an alternative and equally simple control scheme for an equally simple range of actions.

I really don't get your gripe with this very specific and completely irrelevant aspect of the game, yet that image keeps getting posted as though the core system of the game is so rotten as to represent one of the many faults of JRPGs.
Same with desu

Like the other user just posted, it's very likely that Jap game devs were aware of what US game devs were putting out, especially in the case of massive successes like Temple of Apshai.

On Yea Forums's recommendation I played this and it was actually embarrassingly bad lol. The puzzle and level design is toddler tier. You weebs always disappoint me.
>Metal Max Returns
>Phantasy Star 4
These games barely put any effort into level design at all, what the fuck are you doing?

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>Arc the Lad isn't an action-RPG, it's a tactical RPG.
You're using it in the most broad, stupid terms possible. I'll give you a hint, you retarded dipshit:

How many skills does FFT have in it? How varied are they in function? How many characters do you control? How varied are they in skillset? How many different hotbutton combinations would you need to remember to control a team in FFT? How different does each character function?

Now how about Arc the Lad?

They're not the same type of game you stupid fuck. Arc the Lad has about as much in common with FFT's gameplay as Shadow Hearts 2 does with Suikoden 2. Just because they're broadly both in the RPG genre does not mean they play or should function anything alike.

I'm done giving you (You)'s. You're a braindead retard.

>So how do you use those specific skills in Heroes 4? Do you just click on an enemy and poof, it uses it
As a matter of fact, yes. For example, if you have an angel selected, which has the ability to resurrect, hovering your mouse of a corpse will change your cursor to a spell icon, indicating you can use the angel's resurrection spell to revive them with a single click

In the case of units with multiple abilities, the game will remember what spell you used on the last turn, allowing to use it with a single click.

Heroes 4 still has a menu for selecting spells/items of course, but it's a hell of a lot quicker to use than FFT's clunky menus.

Yes, the big stuff like Ultima and Wizardry got translated and actually released in Japan and were influences on things like Dragon Quest. There's clear evidence of that.

Now where the is the evidence that the guys from Namco saw Temple of Apshai?

Do you really need evidence? Temple of Apshai sold MORE than Ultima and Wizardry. Do you really think the Japs weren't interested in atleast taking a look at the fucking thing?

So much kino in one image. Shit like this makes me wish I could just sit home and play vidya until the end of time. I swear to god you people who sit around and argue about this shit don't actually like video games.

>>One requires to select from a three button list, the other requires to press a button in your pad
How are you this retarded?

Here is how you move a unit in FFT:
>choose move from the menu
>slowly and clunkily drag the cursor over each tile until you reach your destination

Here is how you move a unit in Arc the lad:
>direct input: simply move the unit like you would in any other game

How is FFT's interface better?

What's your top 10 of that list, user?

>Man, in FFT you have to press TWO buttons instead of one when you move
>Clumsy piece of shit
You really do have autism don't you

>Do you really need evidence?

Is this REALLY the position you're going with?

>choose move from the menu
>slowly and clunkily drag the cursor over each tile until you reach your destination
>>direct input: simply move the unit like you would in any other game
this is something so, so many turn based games with positioning/formations get very wrong.
That's why I like the system in Neptunia.

>How many characters do you control?
The fuck you talking about, you mongoloid? In FFT battles you control a measly 4-5 units. By contrast, Arc the Lad has a party size of 6 + additional creatures you can summon and control.

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>trying to reason with wrpgfag
It's a lost cause

You're asking me to produce evidence that a Jap dev played an insanely popular videogame in a time where there weren't many insanely popular videogame, WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT A SIMILAR VIDEOGAME CAME OUT IN JAPAN JUST YEARS LATER.

Are you literally fucking retarded? It can be safely assumed that Japs were aware of Temple of Apshai. What kind of evidence do you expect to exist of this? It's not like they were going to document themselves playing a game for no reason.

Battlechasers does JRPG better then Japanese rpgs.

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why are westaboos so clueless? shouldn't you guys be busy watching your movie "games"?

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>How many skills does FFT have in it? How varied are they in function? How many characters do you control? How varied are they in skillset? How many different hotbutton combinations would you need to remember to control a team in FFT? How different does each character function?

What does that have to do with interface design? All those tactical options in FFT just consist of choosing things from a menu, just like in Arc the Lad, it's just that Arc the Lad's interface is much better deisgned and allows much easier and quicker access to a menus. Why would you prefer FFT's shittier interface?

You also control more characters in Arc the Lad than you do in FFT, by the way.

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> shits on movie games
> only plays games that have hours of cutscenes with juvenile writing

weebs never fail to impress.

>why are westaboos so clueless? shouldn't you guys be busy watching your movie "games"?

Strange Journey starts with several hours of expository cutscenes before you've even allowed to play the game:

youtube.com/watch?v=-W-_eI1XxcA&list=PLOdDlDt7wGxeBgeQg5UMgwxpK4rPCWPUm&index=3&t=0s

youtube.com/watch?v=hTUlFeOCSJU&list=PLOdDlDt7wGxeBgeQg5UMgwxpK4rPCWPUm&index=4&t=0s

youtube.com/watch?v=thwE8Jzsezo&list=PLOdDlDt7wGxeBgeQg5UMgwxpK4rPCWPUm&index=5&t=0s

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>SMT
>hours of cutscenes

Attached: 1544058444008.gif (500x302, 581K)

Is this image supposed to be impressive? It's just a bunch of hallways like every SMT game.

Can JRPGtards provide an argument instead of epic memeing? So far, I have seen WRPG fans providing numerous arguments highlighting the flaws and vapidity of JRPG genre while at the same time justifying why WRPGs are just better and more innovative. You're not helping your case by trashtalking and deflecting to desperate trolling, JRPGtards.

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at least you're allowed to play the game, unlike in western "games."

Still not sure how to get into the graveyard.

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@452381626
>t. WRPG retard

t.seething weeb with no arguments left

Fine.

>more than an hour of cutscenes
I'm here to play a game, not watch a movie.

>Scantily clad waifus
Cheap gimmick to sell bad games, also used to hide bland characters.

>anime kids that cry about their feelings
Same as above.

>effeminate bad guys
Same as above.

>any references to religion
>final boss being god/the devil
The cheapest way to incorporate some kind of "deepness" in your game. Reeks of fedora toters who just wanna have a gotcha towards their mom for making them go to church.

There's nothing to really argue. WRPG retards criticized one JRPG by...pointing to a different JRPG that has a better interface. Which is something you can do for pretty much any game on the planet and doesn't seem to do much for the argument that JRPGs are worse.

No real arguments of value have been presented by WRPG cucks.

can wrpgtards provide a game instead of old movies with dialogue choices?

The reality is that both subgenres has fantastic games and it's fucking retarded to limit yourself to either one.

Dude, one of the reasons why not only me but many others have stopped playing shit like Etrian Odyssey and SMT Strange Journey is because of the tedious, soulless level designs which comprised of only endless narrow corridors. And don't even pretend JRPGs have gameplay when they are all anime simulator for weebtards with endless cutscenes and heavily emphasized on waifu.

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WRPG/CRPG fans are constantly criticizing their own genre.
JRPG fans are hypocrites that think FFT is a masterpiece of gameplay balance.

>Reeks of fedora toters
funny stuff coming from the guy who thinks terraria is the best game ever made.

Who is playing rpgs for good level design?

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Those are some nice broad generalizations you pulled out of your ass.

>WRPG/CRPG fans are constantly criticizing their own genre.
that's because wrpgs are so shit that not even their own fanboys can stand "playing" (watching) them.

>has to pick decades old because western shit is currently at eastern level now

>coming from the guy who thinks terraria is the best game ever made.
Is there a problem with that? Not enough cutscenes and anime drama for you?

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> criticizes movie games
> plays jrpgs with literal hours of cutscenes

a chink could shit down your faggot throats and you would call it a great meal, admit it. you weebs are pathetic.

There are several if you'd read the thread.
Here is a JRPG I like made by western devs.
youtube.com/watch?v=uzX2SysFXk0

>Traps, visible enemies, HP doesn't refill after battle, engaging combat abilities, quality art

The only major problems in JRPGs in general are random encounters and the need for Chink-tier grinding, but those are thankfully mostly gone in modern JRPGs.

terraria is a cringe minecraft ripoff for neckbeards who are "enlightened by their own intelligence."

Did you actually play this game? The map design is quite bad and full of arbitrary time wasters... And the game has mandatory VN segments to boot. This is what a real teleport puzzle looks like.

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>the biggest criticism presented in this thread is that you have to press X one more time than you do in other games when selecting skills
>literal paragraphs of arguments about having to press X one more time in a game over two decades old
this gay board is not for me

>>Just look at DQXI, it's still recycling the same combat system from 1000 years ago without even bothering to improve on it and add extra depths.
>Why change it if it works perfectly?
The problem is they DID add a change, pep, and nearly no one liked it (compared even to the previous system of tension).

>HP doesn't refill after battle
In which games does HP refill after battle? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I haven't encountered any I think.

As opposed to Neptunia and Xenoblade, where the most intense gameplay involves mashing the button fast so you can sniff your waifu's feet? Truly I have been humbled.

I liked pep a lot, though mostly because of the animations and such desu
How did tension work and which DQs had it? I only played XI and VIII, and don't remember much about the latter.

>In which games does HP refill after battle? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I haven't encountered any I think.
Final Fantasy 13?

Final Fantasy 13

me

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>JRPG
>Still has random encounters in current year
I can tolerate it when playing older games, but anything newer has no right anymore.

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>neptunia and xenoblade represent all jrpgs
yikes! get an actual argument, please.

I erased that trashpile from my memory, practically the only thing I remember from that game is the beautiful landscapes.

western RPGs with turn-based combat
>tactical positioning and movement, line of sight, environmental interaction, etc

japanese RPGs with turn-based combat
>quick-time events (super mario rpgs) or other shoehorned in real-time elements like the atb system of FF

Realy makes you think.

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P4G since Rise is broken

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>implying the Mario RPGs are bad

The real battle is in the soundtrack, and everybody knows Jap RPGs have much better music.

youtube.com/watch?v=F2wssN8-G1Y

WRPG fans
>complain about jrpgs being shit and cling to games over a decade old
JRPG fans
>enjoy playing videogames

Mate Japanese dungeon crawlers are a shit take on the dungeon crawler genre, mainly because all of them have shit dungeons. Shit layout, no puzzles, no hidden shit/secrets. They're just an excuse to put you in random battles.

Not a single Japanese dungeon comes close to 1 floor in the Legend of Grimrock

They represent the majority, yes. Good JRPGs are the exception, not the norm.

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Why do JRPGS have more memorable characters and stories than WRPGs? Not trolling, is it cause they're more streamlined and well written instead of open world focused and lore based?

now try actually playing the genre instead of shitposting about it.

it was in VIII and IX, and players could use a turn or more repeatedly to charge up the power of an attack, buff etc.

> Why do JRPGS have more memorable characters
t. probably played the 20 ff games and wonders why he remembers the shit-tier characters they have

You're gonna summon that guy with the images comparing the two now, hope you got solid arguments now

jrpgs are made by people who love video games. wrpgs are made by people who love pushing political agendas.

Been playing them for 20 years junior. Get on my level. From Skies of Arcadia to Super Mario RPG, from Grandia to Lufia. I've probably played more JRPGs than most poeple ITT. I just have high standards.

JRPGs just have good set pieces and iconic designs, music is also usually creative and melodies get stuck in your head easily.

>The real battle is in the soundtrack, and everybody knows Jap RPGs have much better music.

>blocks your path

youtube.com/watch?v=uHQZNNajxOk

JRPG fans
>Complain about movie games while playing a game that features 9 hour cutscene at the very beginning
>Whine whenever dev don't make retarded anime girls for your self insert to fuck
>Ignore gameplay just to focus on muh waifus
WRPG fans
>Actually discuss and talk about the game

>Claims to be a fan of JRPGs
>Doesn't play old JRPGs
What the fuck nigger

>Why do JRPGS have more memorable characters and stories than WRPGs?
That's certainly an interesting generalization, user.

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you haven't, since you think that pretending neptunia represents the majority of jrpgs is a valid argument.

Nah.
youtu.be/Rm9PJNF3sE0
youtu.be/tbauwQolyfY
youtu.be/8zlyAXW8M_8

see Also JRPGs tend to focus more on story, WRPGs more on gameplay.

nobody wants to sort through a clusterfuck of item icons either, but we do it because we have to. who the fuck looks at a menu to have fun? menus are used to sort necessary information, and spreadsheets do that effectively, which is why we still use them.

>cling to games over a decade old
This is a pretty awful criticism. The only reason weebs jump from one game to the next is because the whole genre is garbage. There isn't a single JRPG worth remembering.

And how is that wrong? For every Mario RPG, there are 50 JRPGs with gay effeminate pretty boys and crying anime waifus wearing lingerie, from the Tales of Series, to the Dragon Quest series, to the Final Fantasy series, to the SMT series, to the Persona series, and to the Xeno series. Every single one has fallen to these problems in one way or another.

>Why do JRPGS have more memorable characters and stories than WRPGs? Not trolling, is it cause they're more streamlined and well written instead of open world focused and lore based?

Oh yeah, who can overlook the rich and sophisticated writing of jrpgs.

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What's the deal with silent heroes without personality anyway?

You have very low standards if you think Mario RPG is good lol

The only thing that's more memorable in your average JRPG than the average WRPG is character designs and music.
Everything else from the world to gameplay to the story is better and more memorable in WRPG.

wrpg fans talk about jrpgs far more than they ever talk about their own boring-ass "games."

>b-but where are the waifus?
>why isn't the story super serious and tackling religion and war?
>MArio is for babies anyway!

The state of mature gaymers

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> plays genre where it's not unusual for games to have 9 hour cutscenes
> criticizes wrpgs for not having enough gameplay
just lol, weebs are pathetic. but hey, it's fine as long as it's chinks doing it, right?

One is more flowery but both are shit

JRPGs sell on its characters; the rest, especially the gameplay, is just an afterthought. If their consumers can't fap to a waifu, the game won't sell. That's why most of budgets are spent on shit like character cutscenes and famous seiyuu. Meanwhile, WRPGs put equal emphasive on gameplay, settings, characters and stories.

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>JRPGs focus on the story
>Still end up with absolute dogshit writing that's worse than your average WRPG
How do the nips do it?

Holy fucking shit, is this really the state of modern Yea Forums? Complaining about fucking COLORS and PIXELS in video games. I'm fucking glad I stopped coming here after the 2nd Reddit influx of 2016. I should have stopped in 2012 when the first wave came.

none of these characters have hit the mainsteam outside of chrono and DQ guy in japan, you're not helping your case

Why are there no good JRPGs on the PS4? Back in the PSX and PS2 days the PlayStation was loaded with them.

>The only thing that's more memorable in your average JRPG than the average WRPG is character designs
Well, this is certainly memorable, I'll give you that. Though not for the right reasons.

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There was an Underrail thread up constantly for months after the game came out and 99% of the posts were genuine game discussion. There has also been a XBC2 thread up for months after the game came out but roughly 0.0001% the posts are discussing the game and its mostly just masturbating to the characters, and the posts actually discussing the game were attempts to justify its existence to people criticizing it, so in actuality there really wasn't any game discussion at all.

There is really no argument to be made here, dude.

lad, Yea Forums has never not been like that.

>The only thing that's more memorable in your average JRPG than the average WRPG is character designs and music.
>Everything else from the world to gameplay to the story is better and more memorable in WRPG.
bro

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>waifus
I'm this guy, though. Seriously, Mario RPGs are legitimately dumb. Its okay to enjoy dumb things, but don't act all high and mighty about it.

>judging game quality by the quality of Yea Forums discussion

I'm not saying it's good, I'm saying it's more entertaining. Which is not to say that most WRPGs have a good story either. Most is just derivative from Tolkien.

Literally so the player can self-insert.

Golden Sun is a funny case because Gareth (the non-silent protagonist) makes all of the talking for Isaac (the silent protagonist) so it feels like Isaac is actually a badass and just slightly edgy... But in the sequel he begins talking and becomes your average friendship-powered inocent kid.

for every one thread that actually discusses a wrpg, there's a million bait threads like these from wrpg fans whining about jrpgs.

>I'm not saying it's good, I'm saying it's more entertaining. Which is not to say that most WRPGs have a good story either. Most is just derivative from Tolkien.
Nice meme.

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cdpr are hacks

>Mario RPGs are dumb

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yes epic trolle ! xD

self-insert fags

>people stopped being as creative
>companies collapesed
>big ones just sitting on IPs
>Most are really niche shit if they ain't anything from SE, fatlus, etc

>for every one thread that actually discusses a wrpg, there's a million bait threads like these from wrpg fans whining about jrpgs.

>spreading this false narrative
For years, pro-jrpg anti-wrpg bait images were all the rage on Yea Forums. It was only in the last year or so that these pro-wrpg, anti-jrpg images sprang up, specifically as a response to those.

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They would rather spend their money on waifu-friendly character designs like pic related and voice actors to go with them instead of spending it on stuff that would make the gameplay more interesting.

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>Play Xenoblade 2
>Pretty nice level design, open worlds that are fun to run around in, fun story that starts out okay then becomes great in the latter half

>"NO, THAT GAME IS BAD, YOU SHOULD PLAY PERSONA 5 AND DRAGON QUEST 11 INSTEAD"

>Play DQ11
>Okay story, nice characters, boring as shit level design and gameplay

>Play Persona 5
>Characters and story are both insulting to anyone that's not a braindead teenager, level design is even MORE insulting than that

I'll stick to Monolith Soft, thanks.

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>fictional real-world

>science fantasy
you're forgetting steampunk but I guess that falls under that too

>I'm saying it's more entertaining
But it's not though.
Like maybe you could have a laugh on how stupid the plot and characters act and how everything is so fucking simplistic but that fades after some time when you're forced to suffer through another "funny" scene.

Let’s settle this
strawpoll.me/17503367

>"play" Xenoblade
>when it has 13 hours of cutscenes and 800 hours of dialogue, eclipsing any gameplay you might ever see

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I don't see how that refutes what I said. Most WRPGs are medieval fantasy. You posting some of the best WRPGs (and even exaggerating their difference in setting in some cases) and posting a few good JRPGs and literally who after that doesn't make much of an argument.

>OP makes a good point
>Assblasted weeb immediately throws out a false equivalence
>Similar assblasted weebs jump to derail the thread and pretend OP never had a good point
Impressed, but also disappointed at how predictable this is.

how about both

>has to invent fake genres (mecha fantasy / tolkein fantasy)
>has to outright lie (I didn't know the european renaissance had magic and monsters)
>has to outright lie again (Valkyria Chronicles does not take place in ww2, it takes place in a separate fantasy world)

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This says literally nothing.
>Skyrim
>Tolkien Fantasy
>Witcher
>Tolkien Fantasy
That dude was an idiot and cherrypicking but you're retarded.

i know, right? those character designs are, like, sooooo problematic. japan needs to grow up and make games like dragon age inquisition and mass effect andromeda instead.

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>fictional real-world
Do you not know what that means? It refers to settings like Mount & Blade or Jagged Alliance, that take place in a fictional version of the real world.

>playing xenoblade

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>only move variety is a few attacks apply some very white bread buffs/debuffs
>level design is mostly linear corridors
>map design is also mostly linear with a few very short diverging paths
>no real character progression
>railroaded
Then we have paper mario, which is all this but with badge autism. Yikes.

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>>Valkyria Chronicles does not take place in ww2, it takes place in a separate fantasy world
>The Witcher does not take place in medieval Europe, it takes place in a separate fantasy world

>s-stop making fun of meeeeeee

>Tolkein
You had one fucking job...

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Yeah, that sums up that post and the majority of replies to it.

>I don't see how that refutes what I said.
Wrpgs tend to have better world building than jrpgs.

Take for example Persona games. They don't even you explore the intrigue of an urban fantasy setting, for the gameplay sections they teleport you to another dimension that is literally a monster-filled maze. Despite taking place in modern times, characters use medieval weaponry, which civilians inexplicably posses and willing to sell to a bunch of teenagers. You heal deadly injuries with candy. Despite the occult theme, the spells and abilities are the most cookie cutter elemental JRPG spells possible. There's no effort whatsoever made to create a believable urban fantasy setting that reconciles the fantastical with the mundane. The game feels schizophrenic in tone, jumping back and forth between Japanese teenage highschool drama and high fantasy dungeon crawler. It's like the developers wanted to create an urban fantasy setting, but were too lazy to flesh out such a setting and just went with standard high fantasy tropes.

Contrast that with say, Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines, which utilizes its modern-day setting in every aspect of its gameplay and narrative. For example, since you're a vampire healing is done by feeding on enemies or NPC's or by consuming blood bags, which you can get by having an employee at the local hospital smuggle them out for you. The weapons you use aren't medieval, but modern ones like firearms and improvised tools like tire irons and baseball bats, and the people who sell them to you are criminal fencers. Instead of generic elemental spells, you hack computers and use vampiric disciplines such as mental domination or a mist form which renders you invisible. The game takes place in urban locales, not some abstract dimension, and NPC's will panic and alert the cops if you reveal your vampiric nature in public, and being careless will mae vampire hunters come after you. That's how you translate urban fantasy to a video game.

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i didn't make the image, i just found it.

>Modern video game: brown and grey generic ruins/dungeon/city
>1980s Zork game: "You are at the top of the Great Canyon on its west wall. From here there is a marvelous view of the canyon and parts of the Frigid River upstream. Across the canyon, the walls of the White Cliffs join the mighty ramparts of the Flathead Mountains to the east. Following the Canyon upstream to the north, Aragain Falls may be seen, complete with rainbow. The mighty Frigid River flows out from a great dark cavern. To the west and south can be seen an immense forest, stretching for miles around. A path leads northwest. It is possible to climb down into the canyon from here."

yfw text based games invoke more atmosphere than actual modern video games with graphics.

>>Valkyria Chronicles does not take place in ww2, it takes place in a separate fantasy world
>The Witcher does not take place in medieval Europe, it takes place in a separate fantasy world
So? What is your point. I'm not praising the Witcher for its setting either.

>half the thread is copy paste bait images and old pasta

>move variety constantly involves your interaction, better timing being rewarded with better effects/damage
>posts literally the second official stage, wondering why it's simplistic
>map design, though not too open, allows for specially crafted experiences and, better yet, lets enemies all have unique AI patterns with no RNG shoved in your face. Almost every fight in the game can be avoided
>who the heck cares about character progression? Go watch a movie kid
>linearity =/ bad

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But nobody made the claim that the Witcher took place in medieval Europe?

Nah that about sums up you, my bitch nigga. Cry more.

>>linearity =/ bad
Linearity isn't necessarily bad, but damn near every jrpg follows the same design philosophy. For instance, in almost every jrpg in general, the overworld is shaped like a corridor, conveniently barricaded by mountains and shorelines (and the sea itself is barricaded by reefs, so the game is still linear even when you get a ship) so that you can only proceed down one path, which is inevitably the next plot-critical location, which is typically nestled in some environmental chokepoint so that you HAVE to pass through it and progress the plot before you can access the next part of the world. This leads to very unnatural world design and means there is pretty much no exploration in these games, until you unlock the airship near the end of the game, at which point you've already been forced to traverse the majority of the world in a linear fashion.

Wrpgs are a lot more experimental and ambitious with their structure, not just in terms of being non-linear, bur also letting you tackle obstacles in different ways (e.g. stealth, messring around with the environment or some other way).

Again, you're taking the best WRPGs and not the average fantasy with elves orcs and dwarves.
And I also said JRPGs in general (talking about the good ones, even) don't have a good story, but it's an entertaining one nonetheless.

I think the issue here is that JRPGs have a rather rigid formula that works well when executed well, and creates fun games but it also makes them rather generic, whereas with WRPGs there's a lot more variety and creativity (when we leave the generic medieval story behind, which is not to say there aren't fucking great games with that setting, or that the setting itself is bad), and that brings you more highs and more lows.

>weeaboo game contains weeaboo clichés!
I guess when you found that solitare games are using cards you must have been utterly shocked.

I'm saying it's a very silly point to make

>bur also letting you tackle obstacles in different ways
>wow I can open this box five different ways!

>move variety constantly involves your interaction
you press A at the right time, that is literally it
>posts literally the second official stage, wondering why it's simplistic
the picture you posted is almost entirely a straight line
>allows for specially crafted experiences
no they are designed as quick detours that literally every single person playing the game will take because they take no time at all and there is no risk for doing so
>who the heck cares about character progression?
Do you even know what that is? I would like to have control over what abilities and skills my character takes.
>linearity =/ bad
In a RPG, yes, objectively so. RPGs are a sub-genre of strategy, they implement gameplay through decision making. If you aren't thinking about whether to go this way or that, then the game has failed at that particular aspect of being a RPG.

I'm not saying anything detrimental against WRPGs when I discuss linearity. I'm just vindicating Mario RPG in this very specific case. It doesn't pretend to be some massive open world, to the point where the overworld is just a menu screen where you fast travel from one place to another. It's not the best way of going about travel, but it's the most honest and least wasteful. Mario doesn't pretend to have a giant world, it knows its limits and focuses on its strengths.

>I'm saying it's a very silly point to make
What is? The image boasted that Valkyria Chronicles had a WW2 setting. This is obviously not the case. Nowhere does VC reference our actual history. There are some obvious parallels (Europa being literally Europe with one letter changed), but it's still not our world.

Funnily enough, alternate history (aka games that take place in real-world history, but with a supernatural or sci-fi twist) are much more common in wrpgs, such as Darklands, Lionheart or Silent Storm.

Good fucking post.

Western indie devs keep using this, it's lazy as fuck. use a fucking royalty free texture pack or something, pay some tumblr artist to draw some shit, anything.

agree with the dude. DQXI for example was a disgrace in terms of level / world design.

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>its strengths
its strengths are being a cutesy adventure game for kids

>big = good
lmao at you my friend
SMT level design is not good because it has a lot of hallways

>All these west faggots and weeaboos fighting over which of their shitty RPG's are superior while I play the truly superior eastern european slav rpgs
CYKA BLYAT

Not OP, but as highlighted by and , I have yet to see JRPG fanbabbies providing their arguments to refute the points raised by WRPG fans in:
So far, they are only able to try derailing the thread by shitposting false equivalences.

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>you press A at the right time, that is literally it
every single attack is different. You have to learn the timings of every move, and some (like the super jump) require frame perfect jumps. Some late game goodies are absolutely critical about your mastery of timing, like the attack scarf and super suit.

>the picture you posted is almost entirely a straight line
Your path is linear, but it's a series of turns, twists, hidden paths, secret rooms, and enemies who can be fought or avoided. Almost none of them are mandatory. Also, it's one of the best places for physics and navigation puzzles. The 3D maze is still a challenge even to this day.

>no they are designed as quick detours
What does that even mean?

>I would like to have control over what abilities and skills my character takes.
Then choose your strength when you level up? You can pick between having tons of HP, a powerful attacker, or a caster. The game allows you to take any route with any character, though some are better suited for specific roles. And then comes the massive amount of useful items that can be used for a variety of situations.

>In a RPG, yes,
Only because you're still stuck with 2 dimensional thinking. MArio broke away from that convention and made a timeless piece of work.

>NO BLOOD AND SEX AND VIOLENCE? UGH KIDDY SHIT

Yikes.

>Again, you're taking the best WRPGs and not the average fantasy with elves orcs and dwarves.
Morrowind has elves orcs and dwarves and has a more interesting setting than any jrpg I can think of.

I don't see how you can claim with a straight face that jrpgs have more varied settings. Where are the jrpgs that take place in the real world, a setting that is common in wrpgs such as Kingdom: Come Deliverance, the Expeditions series, Mount & Blade, Jagged Alliance, etc. Where is the jrpg equivalent of Deus Ex, an RPG that explores a wide variety of cyberpunk themes in detail?

your bait images have been debunked countless times. you've just spammed them enough that people have figured out it's like talking to a brick wall and have started mocking you instead.

>I don't see how you can claim with a straight face that jrpgs have more varied settings
I said literally the opposite.

>while I play the truly superior eastern european slav rpgs
no thanks

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His "bait" images have eternally BTFO weebs in this board. I don't know who made them, but whoever did deserved a medal.

you can tell when somebodies correct when nobody responds to it

So you admit you're not even interested in honest discussion? Look at the "dungeon" in the OP and tell me it doesn't look cheap as fuck

>giant structure/ship/whatever
>bunch of rooms that would serve no purpose in real life
Is it really that hard to make a level with a lot of rooms that have a PURPOSE?

>Idiots still feeding WRPG-Kun shitposting
>So dumb and new they even respond to copypasta
Goddamn, this place is a shithole.
When will you idiot learn to not respond and let this garbage sink into page 10 where it belongs?
You've been entertaining an idiot and his entourage of imbeciles for nearly two years because you're even dumber than them.

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>load up The Room
>nothing but rooms
I AM FED UP THIS WORLD

>load up the room
>pretty solid boss theme pops up

youtube.com/watch?v=4VkvDYkgi7s

>no arguments
>i-its just shitposting
imagine being harangued by this for years and not coming up with a single defense

>His
Why are you pretending to be multiple people?

>Yea Forums is only one person
See, thanks for proving my point. You're only digging yourself deeper. Not only JRPG fanbabbies couldn't even muster any argument but instead rely on shitposting and derailing, they also love to fall back on deflecting too.

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this
i dont get why people like persona games so much
but still there are a lot more original games that comes from japan than the whole west desu

they've never been good

>play another video game
>it's filled with fucking polygons everywhere
Fucking liberals.

Is that bad?

EVERYONE BETRAY ME

Fuck you.
At least WRPG vs JRPG shitposting involves videogames which is much better than the muh SJWS MUH titties and muh politics that appears in every thread.

JRPGs:
>Beautiful and cute characters and world
>Japanese text and voices
>Good soundtracks

WRPGs:
>Ugly
>Bad voice acting
>English itself is cringey as fuck with few exceptions
>Soundtracks are all polish with no substance
>Made by fat Americans Johnny and Bob (I don't want to indulge in their fantasies, it feels disgusting)

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>English itself is cringey
Retarded weeb.
I'm not even gonna bother with the other reasons because this one proves that you're a retarded cuck.

Honestly that whole post screams of creepy manchild. This is the type of shit you expect to see in the diary of someone who raped and killed 20 little girls in the span of 50 years.

>despite all reason and evidence Yea Forums still pretends that JRPGs have good gameplay, design, or stories

How? It's downright disturbing how fanatical and stubborn stupid people can be.

>despite all reason and evidence Yea Forums still pretends that WRPGs have good gameplay, design, or stories

How? It's downright disturbing how fanatical and stubborn stupid people can be.

>despite all reason and evidence Yea Forums still pretends that games have good gameplay, design, or stories
How? It's downright disturbing how fanatical and stubborn stupid people can be.

Uh-oh. Someone samefagging script went a bit awry...

You keep posting Eridanus as if its some insurmountable challenge. Its straightforward compared to Horologium.

I'm so glad I have more standards than the average JRPG fan.

There hasn't been a single good WRPG world since New Vegas. Change my fucking mind.

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Considering almost every WRPG has shit gameplay as well, that isn't saying much.

>Blocks your path

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ELEX was okay, I found it too big though.

but user the new vegas world was bland orange garbage, easily one of the worst, ugliest, least inspired worlds of any game ever created. Even fallout 4 was better

>I'm so glad I have more standards regarding children's toys

That's right, champ. Make your parents proud.

I will never understand using fucking PS:T as an example of good inventory design. It was fucking awful.

5171
5610
Why do they think they have permission to reply to me?

Dark Souls has better level design than every single one

Name me a single RPG without references to religion.

Because fuck you faggot,

>goes to shit half way through

This pisses me off because spreadsheet list are just an objectively superior equipment screen and your shitty "creativity" on the left is what leads to those insanely reductive UI's in modern "RPG's"

If you read as slow as humans talk.

No, the Witcher literally takes place on another planet, the humans weren't even native to it.

You're going to be hard pressed to find ANYTHING that beats Ultima Underworld, bro....

>boot up game
>I'm expected to take control
*sigh* Japan is so behind...

Both are shit here is kino writing

youtube.com/watch?v=-K0DY_NmWCs

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>Take the persona games, they transport you blablabla

Okay so you didn't even play Persona 1 and 2. What a fucking faggot.

Real talk though, Dragon Quest 11 had some of the most uninspired and lazy dungeons I've ever played in a JRPG.

Name me a single good WRPG in existence.

... Just go. Try.

>name me a good game that doesn't have these things in it
What the fuck was the point you were trying to make there? Because the way you worded it, it's like you're implying that the only good JRPGs are ones that have all that.

Kek this thread.
In summary:
WRPG fans
>jrpg and wrpg genre names are indeed named after the gaming region that popularized the particular genre to which they refer, however those terms are far more useful to describe a genre rather then country of origin. This has been accepted by the entire gaming industry. Therefore dark souls is a wrpg, undertale is a jrpg.
Weebs:
>fuck you jrpg means it was made in japan it's in the name never mind that people dont say "Japanese rpg" but rather just jrpg when they use those terms and they almost exclusively refer to an actual genre of rpg rather then country of origin it says japan lalalalalalalala dark souls is a jrpg lalalalalalalalalala

ALL OF THIS.
ALL OF THIS ALL OF THIS.
IS NOTHING MORE THAN A BUNCH OF DATA.
IT'S JUST A BUNCH OF TEXTURES SLAPPED ONTO POLYGONS.

THERE'S ONLY ONE THING THAT'S REAL IN THIS WORLD, AND THAT'S US; THE PLAYERS!

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He never said they weren't good jrpgs if they have those things, only that they arent good games.

Does everything need to be cluttered? I don't think the generic western "random barrels everywhere" approach is any better.

>Scantily clad waifus
>Bad
Kill yourself

>Effeminate bad guys
>Bad
There is nothing wrong with this

>References to religion
>Bad
>*Tips fedora*
Every civilization in history has had religion of some sort, it is perfectly okay for fictional worlds to reflect this somewhat.

>Final boss being god/the devil
This one is neutral as well. It all depends on the story and who the particular god/devil is. Are you saying that Kefka was a bad final boss?

Dragon Quest

user, you might want to re-think that answer.

t. Artstation professional who mechanically places clutter because "rooms must be filled"

It just kinda fails to the religion one because there are churches, but DQ1 doesn't hit any of those points.

There is no such thing as a WRPG. You are thinking of CRPGs. JRPG is a term for terrible game made for sub-humans, the J stands for Japan, a terrible country made for sub-humans.

He said good

gorky 17

>Therefore dark souls is a wrpg

this one irks me because action RPGs were popularized in Japan not the west. What makes it a WRPG besides the setting?

Play western RPG "masterpiece".
It's just empty corridors and shitty random encounters.
There aren't even any textures, it's just wireframes.

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No you don't understand it's only bad when the japanese do it because weeaboos!

And that is why I said Dragon Quest user.

A lot of people on Yea Forums think JRPG means "turn based combat with giant bug eyed japanese characters". They also think Action RPGS can't be JRPGs.

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Name a single eastern RPG that's like Diablo II, aka the best action RPG ever made.

>assblasted retard whines on the internet when his argument gets dismantled by a mere shitpost
cry me a river faggot

Wizardry 6-8 is the trilogy that gets praise from WRPG autists. 1-3 is the one all the weeb games are based on. 4 (which was posted above) is just torture, but its a lot more than "empty corridors and shitty random encounters."

Why?

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Ehrgeiz

So what's WRPG-kun's backstory? I know he's autistic obviously but what else do we know?

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>talking mythical ages of past to fit in
>uses wrong dates

Is the RPG mode any good?
I always thought it looked interesting but never bothered to check it out.

There is no such thing as an ARPG. They are just action games with very light rpg elements. The chief form of gameplay in RPG is strategy. If that's not true its not a RPG.
Lunatic Dawn 3

Its surprisingly deep for an extra mode in a fighter. If you enjoy roguelike/dungeon crawling its worth checking out.

>character model appears on screen
>able to move more than four directions
I'm getting really tired of all these overdesigned, unoptimized wastes of resources.

>There is no such thing as an ARPG.
What kind of drugs do you have to take to think your opinion is law?

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kefka was a poorly written character

Why?

Gotta love how faggots like only mention old West shit because the newer West games are garbage.

It's just an excuse to pop up some shitty menus, where the actual gameplay of browsing and selecting lists takes place

The best action RPG is KH2FM. It has better combat than all the DMC games.

he only wants to become a god because...he is a clown i guess

What more reason do you need to want to become a god? I'd like to be a god, most people here would like to be a god I'd wager.

Its not an opinion. There are 3 ways in which gameplay can be implemented:
>Action
>Adventure
>Strategy
All games and sub-genres will fall into one or more of these categories. RPGs are tactical squad based games with an emphasis on roleplaying that fall under the umbrella of strategy. Stop being a stupid faggot that thinks your action games belong in a discussion about games like Wizardry or Arkania. This is so fucking obvious I don't know why I have to explain it.

He didn't even want that. He literally did everything For The Lulz.

No he always wanted to be a god. See the scene in the Magitech Factory where he's torturing Shiiva and Ifrit. He was just willing to share it with the Emperor and Celes until he went completely crazy.

This is the objective best suggestion for which to classify RPGs, prove me wrong

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>Play WRPG #1021
>"dungeon" is just a copypasta of every other one

How come Whites have 0 creativity?

What are some dungeon crawlers that aren't just the same tile asset used for 50 hours of gameplay? Games like Legend of Grimrock 2 over the first where the is a world with lots of variety and classic same tile dungeons mixed in. I think one of the wizardry games may be like this?

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>cryptic crypt

JA2, Xcom (the original), and Dark Souls are CRPGs. Diablo, Skyrim, and Ys have no real RPG mechanics. They are RPG-themed. I know that sounds autistic and weird, but I would liken them to a game like Chronicles of Mystara or Dragon's Crown, which have a RPG aesthetic while not actually being a RPG.

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When you have no gameplay elements there tends to be no level design

Dragon Quest is the pinnacle of unoriginality. Every game is the same fucking thing.

>cant even name 1 game better than a 20+ year old game

>IP count didn't go up
Hmmmmm

Does modern japshit even have level design? I thought they were all just VNs now.

retard

>Play WRPG #11
>"dungeon" is just a load of no texture squares framed together

How come Americans have 0 creativity?

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Oh fuck off, JRPGs have much better, and a higher variety of gameplay compared to WRPGs.

theyre not drastically different areas but The Quest

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>I think one of the wizardry games may be like this?
7 and 8. Lands of Lore, Anvil of Dawn, Stonekeep, Realms of Arkania, and Might and Magic are also like this.

like what, selecting things in a menu. things that were automatically chosen on level up because jrpg players arent smart enough for character builds. gimme a break my dude. my favorite jrpg game mechanic is jacking off to the hottest party member

dumbass

we already had this shitpost

You're an idiot.

Aw what's a matter?

Sorry, I couldn't be bothered going through 400+ posts.

name a WRPG with a better choices and consequences system than this

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You're a moron, that's what.

god i fucking love the quest

What's got you so upset pumpkin? You have to vocalize your problems but I wouldn't expect a WRPG fan to be smart enough to realize that.

great job backing up your claim

God job not having an actual counter-argument.

Arma 2, the vanilla campaign

dont make such bold claims if you're unwilling to have a conversation

serious answers only please

feels - 300 meters - straight ahead

Buggy wannabe Counter Strike.

fuck off if you don't have an argument

Play it. Arma 2s vanilla campaign has more choices and consequences than most modern WRPGS even.

Dont need to argue that jrpgs suck because its a fact. common sense really.

>Dark Spire
Demigod-tier taste.

>game is linear

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Arma 2 died when Armaholic went pants on head retarded and became a pseudo paysite.

i think arma 2 died when arma 3 got made

>dat feel when dungeon crawling to this
youtube.com/watch?v=MVSVT-VcHMc

Arma 3 still doesn't have the Flashpoint missions so for me it never was alive.

generewars are more pathetic than consolewars

Diablo is not an action RPG. You need direct control over your character for it to be action based.

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I've been on Yea Forums since the 90s. It's always been like this, so don't believe other "oldies" when they try to convince you it was better in the past.

>throws out a false equivalence
>"dungeon" is just a load of flat texture oblongs stitched together
I don't think so John.

>DRPG not even on the lists anymore

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mfw I got to this floor youtube.com/watch?v=QfKhZZ-Sx7g

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It is, you are just too young to know any better.

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Arguing with WRPGkun is just as tedious as actually playing a WRPG. Is this intentional?

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jrpg is not a genre, its an excuse

>edits a wikipedia article and takes a screenshot
old enough to know when someone is rusing me.

Finally someone who gets it.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_role-playing_game
Check for yourself if you don't believe me.

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It's a patrician genre, plebs wouldn't know of it.

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>doom has good level design
dont tell me boomers actually believe this

its a bad game and only weebs like it because it has programmatic jungle beats for barbaric niggers

Why do you think it's bad?

He probably played Barkley RPG and got super butthurt whenever he had to save.

aaaahahaha, wtf

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>more choices and consequences than most modern WRPGS even
princess maker 2 has 74 endings

>Play WRPG #1241
>"dungeon" is just a copy-pasted template you've seen 50 other times in the open world

He hasn't played it.

So?
Fallout 3, aka the best modern CRPG, has over 800!

/thread

And it all just works.

because theyre called dungeon crawlers and were never rpgs

>he doesn't know

i call em gayrpgs

its basically wiz 1-3 with worse maps and SLIGHTLY better spells. and as i've said the music is nigger-tier.

Anyone who is even slightly evil would become a god if they had the chance. What makes Kefka good is that he seems like a joke minion villain at first, more like a mid-boss than anything. He seizes an opportunity to betray his superiors and seize godlike power for himself. No one who hasn't heard of the game would ever see that shit coming, and it doesn't feel forced, just incredibly opportune.

This is the Best RPG ever made.

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ebin

you zelda normies are so fucking insufferable

wikipedia is not a reliable source for anything