Why are western devs incapable of making good boss fights?

>a 2 hr boss fight is good

The japanese aren't immune to this though.

That's like asking why it's so shameful to shit yourself as an adult when babies do it all the time

The ratio of good/bad boss fights is much more positive for japs than western devs though, nobody is saying there aren't bad japanese boss fights.

she doesn't take more than 10 minutes even on GMGOW

Why are gook devs incapable of making good boss fights?

What's holding them back?

GoW gets shit for rehashed trolls. The valkyries have slightly different movesets which is fine even if how to beat themnis the same. DMC4 is horrible though since bosses are good but you have to fight them 3 times. Nero, Dante, then as Nero again but now with dice. The bosses also doesn't have substantial additional moves in the boss rush. It's so bad.

>GoW gets shit for rehashed trolls. The valkyries have slightly different movesets which is fine even if how to beat themnis the same. DMC4 is horrible though since bosses are good but you have to fight them 3 times. Nero, Dante, then as Nero again but now with dice. The bosses also doesn't have substantial additional moves in the boss rush. It's so bad.

The second time you fight them you do so as a completely new character though, so it's not exactly the same.

Sure, your movesets are different but the boss' moves/patters are the same.

>98% of her moveset is rehashed from the other Valkyries

Isn't that the point? All the previous valk fights are supposed to be prep for mommy valkyrie who uses all their moves.

>Isn't that the point?

The point is to reuse assets to save on money and time. Cory Balrog even admitted as much.

What the fuck

Is... are we blaming people for being good at video games?

It took more than 10 minutes to whittle down her last 2 bar.
Fucking artificial difficulty bullshit for making us deal less damage on that last portion.

>What's holding them back?

in some cases, the devs themselves. FFXV lacks any good bosses because the director can't to action RPG combat for shit.

that doesn't happen, she took me 10 min on hardest difficulty with endgame gear

>It took more than 10 minutes to whittle down her last 2 bar.
What garbage ass actives did you bring with you to the fight, there's full runs on youtube shorter than 4 minutes.

Isn't Furi a game of good boss fights?

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Wow, you must really suck at video games.

God of War is a great game, but Sigrun is a horribly designed fight.
>Is supposed to ultimate boss, but reuses base model as all the previous Valkyrie you have fought.
>Has no unique moves, literally just uses combination of other Valkyrie moves.
>Gains substantial amount of boss armour the lower her health is. Because there's no boss armour ignoring mechanics it's effectively just extra health meaning the last 25% of her health bar takes more damage than the previous 75%.
>The reward for defeating her is crafting materials that you won't use because she's supposed to be the 100% completion boss so there's nothing worth crafting it for. Even with NG+ added, you get new, better crafted gear soon into it.

Didn't max out gear, beat Sigrun on the first week with Sindris set and runic cooldown build.
Normal attack deal puny damage and the only way to beat her without spending another hundred of hours into this god forsaken mediocrity is spamming skills in between cooldown.

git gud

What a fucking retard.

>jap goooooood
>non jap baaaaad

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>western games are shit
>my argument for this? the boss fights are shit, even though they only take up .0.0001% of a game's play time
>even though plenty of primarily western genres such as stealth games and strategy games don't lend themselves to boss fights
The absolute state of weebs.

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Here's a better question, why is third person over the shoulder so default in western games? Even the Monster Hunter clone Dauntless does this shit when the other hunter types like Soul Sacrifice and God Eater had the common sense to give the player free movement and camera to make sure they're fully in control no matter what. I'm guessing it's cheaper to arbitrarily restrict player movement and keep the gameplay as basic as possible as to not scare people off from having options with how they approach a situation.

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It's pretty good all things considered.

>>Gains substantial amount of boss armour the lower her health is. Because there's no boss armour ignoring mechanics it's effectively just extra health meaning the last 25% of her health bar takes more damage than the previous 75%.
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

western devs cant make action games.

>japanese boss fight
>take down boss non-lethally
>she tearfully bleeds to death in the cutscene that follows

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>Here's a better question, why is third person over the shoulder so default in western games?

>What is Resident Evil 4-6 (and Remake 2)
>What is God Hand
>What is Vanquish
Japanese games actually pioneered the over the shoulder camera system.

crosscode is most recent western game i can think of playing that had bossfights

>he didnt play royal edition and dlcs

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nor fighting games

Good for them, does that explain why nearly every western game with a decent budget does it? Because Japan did it?

>royal edition
everything I researched showed that they didn't fix the Hold O shit AT ALL and Argmier Unleashed is just button mashing. Decided it was not worth the $15 to "upgrade"

>dlcs
I have seen footage and read reviews:
Gladios - Parry/Counter like it's fucking Dark Souls
Prompto - 3rd person shooter
Iggy - Pick your style and then Hold O

Bosses typically don't work very well in shooters and that's basically all the west makes. I can't think of a single boss in a shooty game (west or jap) that is good.

they cant invent an alternative system. this goes for many things in video games

I'd say Kessler from infamous was a good boss fight.

>Because Japan did it?
Yes. In general, Japan laid the foundation for modern console gaming:

>Shenmue pioneered and popularized quick-time events

>Ico pioneered and popularized escort missions

>WinBack & Kill Switch pioneered and popularized cover-based shooting

>Metal Gear Solid pioneered and popularized 'movie games' with a heavy emphasis on cinematic storytelling to the detriment of gameplay (just compare MGS to its stealth game contemporaries like Thief and it becomes painfully clear how primitive its 'stealth' mechanics and level design are by comparison)

>Resident Evil 4 pioneered and popularized the tight over the shoulder camera where your character takes up half the screen, necessitating a much slower movement speed and pace of gameplay, in contrast to older third-person games where the camera was zoomed out and both player and enemy moved very fast.

>Final Fantasy and other popular jrpgs removed classic rpg features like extensive character creation and customization and non-linearity in favor of a more guided, linear experience filled with cinematic spectacle.

The boss fight is an underdog trope where the much weaker opponent uses talent and ingenuity to overcome the big guy. Americans don't like that trope. They prefer a hero that becomes OP and blows the shit out of everything, because that's how they see themselves.

And you'd be wrong.

modular bosses and bosses with phases are bad design, because they go against previously established gameplay mechanics.

Japanese boss fights are bad as shit
>lol slash it until it dies

>they cant invent an alternative system. this goes for many things in video games
Western third-person sgames already had a perfectly functional camera system before the advent of the over the shoulder view.

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Nope.

Western devs suck at everything because they are retarded and obsessed with retarded shit.

Every fight in InFamous, all inFamous, can be dealt with handily with spam and nothing but spam. The bosses themselves are mostly creative, the actual fights aren't anything stellar.

Are Australians western?

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>what are the Souls games

Are you retarded? No one is saying western games are bad, the OP is asking why is there so little if any good western boss fights, which is the real fun in an action game, instead of fighting the same weak mooks throughout the game
>inb4 baited

Yep.

>452200003
no (you)s for you

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that text is complete trash. why did he suddenly cover vanquish? the game is literally one of the best 3rd person shooters.

he mustve been just another xbox noob player who knows nothing other than xshit games and didnt even play re4

No they're aliens.

Fuck No. I'm Australian and i don't like being lumped with the burgers.

Souls games are made by japs though...

That's nonsense, it depends entirely on how well they are implemented

Holy shit I nearly fell asleep watching that .webm

N-no bros, this cant be true.
THE JAPS DINT MADE A THING, HOW CAN THEY MADE ALL THAT, WEEBS ONLY MAKE BORDERLINE PORN GAMES.
WHERE DO YOU GET THAT INFO, user, DOUBLE CHECK IT RIGHT NOW, IT CANT BE TRUE, IT CANT.

Exactly this. Souls boss fights are a case of mileage may vary. That's not bad, but for every Penetrator boss fight there's a Dragon God or Bed of Chaos lying in wait somewhere.

You dumb nigger. Why?

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Nah, mate.

>boss fights, which is the real fun in an action game, instead of fighting the same weak mooks throughout the game

>fighting a giant health sponge
>more fun than fighting groups of enemies that are composed of enemies with different movesets and that force you to make tough decisions about what enemies to prioritize

I don't see this. My experience is that most boss fights, even the most critically acclaimed ones, are rather boring affairs that revolve around shallow gimmicks.

Nope.

I think the point I'm getting to really is just because Japan started a lot of trends doesn't mean they have to be followed faithfully as the absolute method. Like I'd love to see another western dev take a crack at an action game like DmC. Now we all know that game didn't pan out for obvious reasons, but that doesn't mean someone else couldn't give it a shot and make an action game to call their own.

Yep.

...

>Literally a glorified mook
Sigrun retroactively ruins the other Valks.

>make an action game to call their own.
Do you think DmC is the only time a western dev ever made an action game in the entire history of gaming? Something like Jedi Academy for example has far better gameplay than DmC.

West needs more rival fights

I'm sorry

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Refinement and focus on it

Obviously not, but it is one of the most recent attempts and the amount of controversy behind it makes it an easy pick. Either way the point still remains that more games like it and Jedi Academy could be done but it's not happening over here. Why?

>Credo Nigga is the best boss fight in 4
>You only fight him once
>If you don't have a Trainer you have to go through 80 floors of Bloody Palace to fight him as Dante.
Who thought this was okay?

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>Vergil
>Jeanne
>Credo
>Sam from MGR:R
>Nelo Angelo
>Also webm Related taking alot of damage disproving the Health sponge

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What's your thoughts on games which add adds during a boss fight

also does anyone still have the clip from the official DMC Charity livestream where the french guy calls Credo a nigger?

>add adds
As in advertisements.....?

Mook enemies

>*AHEM* FUCK THE NIPS AND FUCK JANNIES

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Oh that, one boss fight is enough I don't mind them, but to make it the last boss, or a common design is bad, and there aren't really that fun since it isn't really a boss fight in the sense of the word

Yet another difference of opinion in game design lay in the creation of DmC's bosses. In Itsuno's eyes, the first boss designs were flat and uninteresting, basically just minion-level enemies blown up to huge size. "In samurai dramas," he said, "you have the idea of the bad guy getting slain in this incredibly flashy manner by the good guy. It's part of the role of a boss to make the player feel really good as they defeat it. Meanwhile, overseas the philosophy seems to be more like 'No boss is gonna move around so flashily and ask to get killed like that'. To get them to understand this, we explained everything out on whiteboards. It'd be like 'If the boss moves like this, then this is how the player feels, so let's have the boss go like this.' We'd trade drawings along those lines."

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“For example, when we used to have Kojima Productions L.A.—we had an office in Los Angeles—we would get proposals for new games, pitches. It always started with: ‘This is the world you’re in. This is the experience I’m going to give you.’ And gameplay was relegated to page 5 or 6 or 10,” Amaro tells Glixel. “It was always about who you’re playing, who is the character, what’s going on, but not the ‘how,’ how am I playing this?”

“In Japan, a pitch is a page, maybe two. The first page you write what the game is about and how you play it,” he continues. “And the second page, maybe you need an illustration. We don’t care about who, or what the story is, what the game world is, all of this doesn’t really matter.”

>How come DMC4 got so much shit for rehashing boss fights when it's like three times as bad in nu-GoW?
Nu-GoW isn't even the worst example of recycled boss fights I've seen. That would be Okami, a game that literally has a time travel subplot for the sole reason of explaining why you're fighting the same boss yet again.

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youtube.com/watch?v=de-S-Kl-xAo
Everything about this whole sequence was nice.

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You try coming up with a fight that's a big spectacle while still being mechanically sound, challenging, but not fuck off hard or babby mode easy while also keeping each boss fight noticeably unique from each other so you don't get dark souls 2/3 situations where 90% of the bossfights feel like the same fucking shit because you're just doing the same dodge dodge attack routine every time but also avoid a demon's souls situation where every boss is just based on a single gimmick that makes them a joke as soon as you figure out what their gimmick is.

It's not easy, but I don't expect some fat slob consumer who has never made a video game in his life and yet thinks he should be an authority on them to understand that.

What's funny is that despite all this 90% of the bosses in DmC are uninspired and boring as fuck.

The only visually interesting boss is Bob Barbas, and he's still completely stationary and only throws out generic AoE attacks; barely any AI at all. So he's really boring mechanically speaking.

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they think that bossfights are too "video gamey", I've literally heard people say that.

>wojak edit

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>Itsuno gave Ninja Theory instructions on how to design the bosses

So what you're saying is that Itsuno is to blame for the shitty boss fights in DmC?

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the only part I hated was this sequence and the one after "return to the light" because if I was not perfect in my dodging, I was dead but it was a really nice boss battle.

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Only retards had trouble with the trolley, it was such an easy minigame even as a kid

nah, okami isn't as bad as skyward sword where you fight imprisoned NINE FUCKING TIMES in a 100% run.

>japan starts trends with good games that are built around using specific trends for their strengths. MGS for example is a movie game but everyone fucking loves it because it does an extremely good job of doing that in particular while not being a straight up walking sim either.
>the west picks and chooses random ideas japan came up with out of a hat throws them all into the oven to cook up a generic hodgepodge that a suit decided upon instead of anyone trying to make something good and then takes it out halfway through the timer because the publisher needs it out RIGHT NOW

I wish Spiderman 2018 wasn't so rigid in the
>wait until pattern ends then attack
Sort of shit, since there were nice concepts mixed into the boss fights.
Plus no mission select too

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no, the fights probably would have been even worse without him. As polite as he is towards NT when asked about them I get the strong sense that he thought they were all extremely baka gajins.

Cool silky smooth 30fps you have there.

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>>japan starts trends with good games that are built around using specific trends for their strengths. MGS for example is a movie game but everyone fucking loves it because it does an extremely good job of doing that in particular while not being a straight up walking sim either.
Uh-huh.

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>Intentional sabotage so he could be allowed to make 4SE and 5
I'd believe it

Just imagine how bad they were before.

youtube.com/watch?v=Waj6EiAP2gM

Not him but Sam from MGR is a series of QTEs that's barely better than the "boss" in Order 1886. I've never actually seen Platinum do good bosses outside of W101, but I also haven't played Bayonetta.

Give wizardry back to the west already japan
Yeah west did stealth better there, still sad MGS4 didn't use most of the ideas they had due to shit levels after Act2

>comparing a niche turn-based jrpg to a mainstream action game
How about a fair comparison, by comparing turn-based jrpgs to turn-based wrpgs?

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>a HP sponge with almost 100k hp
>arbitrarily resistant/immune to every single status ailment in the game
>this is considered good boss design

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well NuGow bossfights where better than in nioh or any dmc game so far. shit thing was there really was only 3 of them.

why does a shit game like this have so many good enemy designs

Didn't NT take away development time from Dragons Dogma?

>mainstream action game
so we should compare KH2 to Witcher 3
Oh that was an early 6th gen game wasn't it?

>well NuGow bossfights where better than in nioh or any dmc
You aren't even trying

>NuGow

How can "throw axe" the game have good bosses?

Simple
Reskin the same boss multiple times

>buttblasted capcomfags still shilling this false narrative

>Development of the game lasted three years including early concept development, with the 150-strong staff being mostly carried over from Devil May Cry 4.[2] Including external staff, the development team was over 200 people. As with other large-scale Capcom projects, the development team was divided into units with specific tasks, allowing production to be streamlined without compromising the project as a whole.[13]

and how is that a good boss when the core gameplay is shit?

axe throwing becomes outclassed before midgame
did you even play it?

>fighting reskins and big enemies
>scripted boss fights
>dragon feet
>good

loving every laugh

That's like blaming a broken leg on the completely different guy who tried to apply some bandages on it.

>so we should compare KH2 to Witcher 3
Sure, be my guest. Even so, witcher 3, a game where you can only use a single type of weapon, is hardly representative of a typical western rpg. It's more of an action-adventure game than a wrpg.

Wow. Instead of axe you throw blades on chains!!!!

What about the Metal Gear Solid series for example? That had some pretty good boss battles where you used guns in 3rd and 1st person.

>did you even play it?

A little bit on a rental. Didn't care for it because it didn't feel like a proper God of War game.

just some modern Sony cinematic bullshit "game" with a God of War coat of paint just to help it sell better

Based.

Fuck NuGoW.

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>What about the Metal Gear Solid series for example? That had some pretty good boss battles where you used guns in 3rd and 1st person.
I can't imagine how anyone could think with a straight face that MGS has fun shooting. The shitty camera in MGS1-3, the fact that there is even 1st person transitions for aiming completely destroying any sense of gameplay, the godawful controls. It's just garbage.

Vanquish

And there we have it. Every anti-GoW4 shitposter hasn't even played it, confirmed!

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The game was still NT's baby (that's bastardized by capcom), everything from the boss designs to the combat was their idea, Itsuno and his team were just passing their experience with the games to make the best possible DMC game that sells for capcom

You look at Sigrun and tell me she's a good bossfight. Also
>QTE

they;re insecure and lazy, and they think they're better than anyone else

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except if you actually read he DID play it. He didn't like it

>gow4
U wot retard
Through an axe at reskinned troll with le cinematic slow mo after parry

Titanfall2 had some fun boss fights for a western SHOOTER game. Although, with mechs, they had fucking better add a good boss fight

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He played 5 mins at his wife's bull's house. Doesn't mean he really played it and certainly doesn't mean he has a valid opinion on the game

Just call it moviegame senpai

I should've bought this game

WUIWATO PIGO GO HOMU

That's fucking retarded

(Good) Japanese games tend to do one thing really well, and in that context you can add a lot of depth and variation to that single thing.

(Good) Western games tend to provide a broader experience with a focus on a lot of different systems, none of which are very deep. So while you can do a lot of different things in the game there isn't much variance to any of them.

Compare i.e. Dark Souls to Horizon Zero Dawn.

PS4 has had a resurgence of players recently thanks to Apex Legends

YOU HEAR THAT RINGING IN YOUR EARS, SON?

Are you idiot, perhaps?

GOOD TONE GOOD TONE
WHEN YOU GET TO HELL, TELL EM VIPER SENT YA

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Sure, it wasn't PERFECT, but I still enjoyed it.

It's not western, or it's bad. Pick one.

Ehm, in that webm they're playing on normal mode, in DMD I'm sure as fuck that boss has 4 times more health

It has to be considering its focus

Western devs tend to favor the idea and image of something over the actual interaction and mechanics.

>Western devs tend to favor the idea and image of something over the actual interaction and mechanics.
That's certainly an interesting generalization.

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I'm expecting DMC5's DMD being balanced the way it was in DMC1, so it will have a reasonable amount of damage

>Ehm, in that webm they're playing on normal mode, in DMD I'm sure as fuck that boss has 4 times more health

Bosses have way too little health on easier difficulties in DMC anyway. You can destroy Goliath in the DMC5 demo incredibly fast if you know what you're doing.

wrpgs dont even come out anymore whereas jrps constantly do.
you gotta realize things are getting real ugly

>Griffon 3

I think it's pretty neat, even though I saw it coming miles away that the Valkyrie Queen will have all the combined move sets of all the previous valkyries you've fought, seeing that some of them already share some.

>wrpgs dont even come out anymore whereas jrps constantly do.
What does that have to do with anything? You argument was:

>Western devs tend to favor the idea and image of something over the actual interaction and mechanics.
Which is bizarre, since western games arguably tend to have more interactivity on average than Japanese games.

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>slowly carrying a boar when he literally pushed off a titan
Nu-GoW is literally un-replayable.

you can skip that scene on replays lol
keep seething instead of actually playing the game

i rather have a 3 qte boss than a monotonous one like savior from dmc4

why should we talk about games that dont even come out. "wrpgs" are dying except for mmos and the slav ones which arent really "western". you are just talking about fictional games in your head.

>lmao just shoot
On a serious note, I don't think there will be a boss like Griffon in DMC5, that's probably because Itsuno still has nightmares of infested chopper, and with the ones we saw in 5 they seem pretty good

>why should we talk about games that dont even come out.

>What is Divinity: Original Sin 2
>What is Pathfinder: Kingmaker
>What is Kingdom Come: Deliverance
>What is Prey

>western means american
australians truly are retarded aren't they

>Prey
>WRPG

really?

vocaroo.com/i/s1Z91B6aOpkb

>really?

>more role-playing than any jrpg ever made, allowing you to tackle obstacles in countless game
>not a role-playing game

How is prey wrpg?

>really?

>more role-playing than any jrpg ever made, allowing you to tackle obstacles in countless ways
>not a role-playing game

If shit like The Witcher 3 or Nier: Automata counts as rpgs, then how is prey not one?

most the time from what i'm seeing, far too much development time with bosses seems to be focused on a cinematic experience and story in AAA games, with western devs. they can't seem to bother with polishing and expanding a gameplay, so long as it's good enough. this just ends up giving us either bullet sponges, mook interference, and/or solving a mini-puzzle before repeating the same patterned shit, never mind QTEs. Mr. Freeze's fight in AC was the closest anti-thesis to this practice, and it only saddens me that he wasn't the last boss.

competent indie devs at least actually put some effort into their boss fights, but you can only do so much with 2D. there isn't a lot you can do to make it a cinematic experience, you may as well try to make a good boss fight and maybe polish the gameplay while you're at it.

Well it is true unless you go for less popular stuff now, a shame really

> far too much development time with bosses seems to be focused on a cinematic experience and story in AAA games, with western devs.
Persona 5 literally has 43 hours of cutscenes. Most Metal Gear Solid games have more hours of cinematics than they do hours of gameplay.

If anything, Japanese devs tend to invest far more resources and development times into making their games cinematic.

I'd rather have Credo

realize you can barely have those aaa games. also like i said, slav games arent really western. arent you ashamed of yourselves relying on them? the devs have fought with anglo sjws unlike you westacuckks but thats not your achievement at all.

prey? if you are saying its the prey how can it be a "wrpg" . also the new one bombed.
thats just a shit noob meme casual journos fabricated last gen. i mean mass effect games arent "wrpg" either. otherwise nobody knows that "prey" game.

It's a cultural thing. Westerners don't make good bosses (not now or kinda ever really, with some exceptions), because Westerners are more focused on cinematic storytelling and having a sense of 'realism' in their games, with gameplay mechanics that make logical sense to a degree via matching them up with real-world physics. Thus, you don't really have bosses where you need to hit them a bunch of times or shoot them a lot until they die.

But another thing is, the West just doesn't really "get" boss fight design. Even when they do make bosses, they're generally more simplistic and not really as fun as Japanese bosses, because they don't give them as many moves as they should or they don't give the bosses as much interactivity as they should have. In a lot of Japanese action games, there's actually a ton of hidden tech, where you might find that a certain move or weapon interacts with the boss in a unique way that might put the boss in a different state or reflect its attacks if you time a hit correctly or something. The only AAA Western game I've played with bosses like that was DKC:TF.

>Not even level 1
pff
fff

>It's a cultural thing. Westerners don't make good bosses (not now or kinda ever really, with some exceptions), because Westerners are more focused on cinematic storytelling and having a sense of 'realism' in their games

>Western games are more cinematic

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level 1 KH having god tier gameplay is just a shitty meme

The video is very tryhard but not as tryhard as it could be, that's the point, dumbo.

Yes
Some are pretty lackluster like the old man and the final boss, but the edge and the hand, especially the edge, are incredible

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why did you make these?

Reminder that it doesn't count unless you beat her on GMGOW

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Because they don't have to pander to titty loving autists who think obscure attack cancels makes for interesting gameplay

>why did you make these?

>claims western games are more cinematic than japanese games
>someone points out that japanese games tend to have far more cutscenes and less interactivity on average
>WHY YOU MAKE THESE

T.buttblasted weeb.

>DMC
>good boss fights
LOOOOL

that doesn't answer my question

What game is on the left?

Because he's mad about JRPGs being lauded as superior, hence why he makes stuff criticising them via comparisons with WRPGs in terms of mechanics and characters
Even so, you still see more stand out japanese boss fights these days than you do with west

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>the final boss IS the super boss

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>stopped around Joy
Man I need to get good, other wise I probably can't even beat furier

It;s Condemned Criminal Origins

So what is the best boss fight in all of gaming?

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Nope.

>Joy

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>who think obscure attack cancels makes for interesting gameplay

Number 1 reason why the west suck at game design right here.

Notice how the western brain immediately associates unrealistic with bad. Ideas such as cancels and i-frames offends their sensibilities because in the western mind a video game should be as close to reality as possible, otherwise it is not "immersive".

This of course, is a cancer to good game design. Video games are video games, they do not follow the same rules as our own world, they are limited but also free in different ways. Therefore video games must use different techniques and tricks to create a world that follows its own logic and rules in a way that is satisfying and fun.

The Puyo Puzo boss from Sonic Mania

wanna see me cum

either him or Vergil

Shit, meant Song

DMC has the best boss fights

Yep.

FUCK people who like tits

>Royal Guard

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Now do that with a proper middle-finger superboss like Ur-Devil or No Chemical Warped Savior.

user, that was just a fag trying to get some (you)s, pay him no attention

>Royal Guard

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wanna see my muscle

comparing action RPG to action RPG

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Galbalan is god tier. Oath is super under rated as an action(rpg) game.

Shovel Knight has a fantastic Final Boss
>The entire game you’re trying to find/save your former partner who you dream about constantly and some bosses point out you’re missing her
>turns out she was the bad guy the whole time (which most of the cast kinda knew but not the player)
>After you beat her fairly tough first phase with platforms being created and destroyed your partner comes back to you
>The final battle demonstrates how you two work so well together as partners and how how you both complete each other as being a Shield Knight and a Shovel Knight by yourself is hard

I really gotta go back to playing ys. I've only played 1&2, thinking about playing 6 next since oath and origins came out after it.

You know what is sad? Vanquish is one of the few fun TPS games on the last and current generation.

Fixed camera perspectives in Japanese horror games was always incredibly well done, with the games being entirely designed around them and using said angles to create tension within the player.

In fact, I'd say they lose a lot by just making it first-person.

Also, sound design in REmake is perfect anyway.

Napishtim is alright, but Oath and Origin is really where its at, these games are where Falcom really figured out how to properly use the new combat (especially with bosses like Chester & Galbalan) while keeping things fun and challenging. Definitely give Napishtim a go before you get to the other two though because the difference between it and OaF and Origin is pretty noticeable, especially when going back to it.

Probably the design process, since western single player games are usually designed around the story, and Japanese single player games start with the gameplay mechanics.

Nope.

Yep.

I thought the Deathshead final boss in TNO was fucking great.
Then again, it's so refreshing to play an actual shooter instead of console shooter garbage that I might be blinded.

Nope.

Yep.

You are comparing one of the best if not the best final boss fights in vydia against some shitty AssCreed clone, user. That is very unfair.

But yeah, western games usually have shitty boss fights, and that's when they do have one.

Because DMC is held to a higher standard.
A GoW game doing something poorly is to be expected.

>Ico pioneered and popularized escort missions
I wish it fucking didn't.

same because it still remains the only game to ever pull it off properly.

>have a fun fight which is also a call back in TNO
>give ok boss fight in TOB
>drop the ball and put two strong mooks at the end for TNC
What went wrong

Never played Ys because I heard the games were not independent, and I don't want to have an entire giant series on my backlog.

Are they saying the truth, or I can play whatever I want without losing anything?

AS I STARE INTO THE CLIT OF THE CUNNY
APOCALYPSE I SEE HER REACHING FOR MY
POLE

I CANNOT ERECT
I MUST TRICKSWORD
I CANNOT ERECT
I MUST RAINSTOOOOORRRMMM

FUNNY HOW THE LOLI TRIES TO SINK ME DEEPER
AS THE LEGALS TRY TO TURN ME AROUND

I HAVE TO FALTER, CUT OFF THE DAMN PHONE
AS I BAIL YOUR PARTY 6 FOOT UNDERGROUND

SHE TRIES TO TRAP MY DICK IN PAIN
AND LOCK MY POWERS IN CHAINS

THE HARPIES RIDE WITH HAPPY THOTS IN THIS CRUMBLING WORLD

YOU CANNOT FUCK ME, I AM THE WIZARD
YOU CANNOT FUCK ME, I SAY NO WAY FAG

YOU CANNOT FUCK ME, (I CANNOT ERECT)
I AM THE WIZARD
YOU CANNOT FUCK ME, (I MUST RAINSTORM)
I SAY NO WAY FAG

I MUST NOT FORGET
THAT I HAVE CAME
FOR THE PIZZAS AND THE SUNDAES ON MY DESK

SOMETHING SAVE ME
TAKE ME OUT OF HER PARTY
AND DROP ME SAFELY IN THISSSS HUUUUUTT

I HEAR RIGHT PAST ME
THE PHONE IS RINGING
AS I CALL UPON THE DARK MAN TO ESCAPE

WITH THE BANSHEE ON MY PHONE
AND THE EMO RIGHT IN FRONT
I SLIDE THROUGH AND NO WAY FAG MY SELF OOOOOUUUUUUTTTT

YOU CANNOT FUCK ME, (I CANNOT ERECT)
I AM THE WIZARD
YOU CANNOT FUCK ME, (I MUST RAINSTORM)
I SAY NO WAY FAG

(GET ME OUT)
(GET ME OUT)

I HEAR THE CUNNY IN HEEEERRRRRR
IT'S SQUIRTING RIGHT ON MEEEEEEEE
I HEAR THE CUNNY IN HEEEERRRRRR
IT'S SQUIRTING ON MY SUNDAEEEEEEE

YOU CANNOT FUCK ME, (I CANNOT ERECT)
I AM THE WIZARD
YOU CANNOT FUCK ME, (I MUST RAINSTORM)
I SAY NO WAY FAG

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Because GOW is a complete game while DMC4 is half a game that you play through twice. Plus the whole rehashing boss fights has been a thing in DMC since the first game so when it keeps happening people are going to get more pissed by it.

Asks a weeaboo after getting mad because someone provides facts to prove the bullshit about Japan superiority being bullshit.

>first enemy of the game has like 8 health bars
>good

Good post.

>same because it still remains the only game to ever pull it off properly.

Eeeeeeeeh, no. Ico is not a good game for a number of reasons:

>getting yorda to move is needlessly aggravating. She never simply comes to you if you call her because she constantly has to make pauses mid-walk or mid-sprint
>combat is boring. sure, seeing yorda get whisked away by shadow creatures is cool...the first time it happens. The game then proceeds that copy-pasta that one combat encounter for the rest of the game. Lack of any resource management and the fact that the boy can't die makes combat more busywork than anything.
>jumping/climbing controls are well-implemented, but the actual platforming and exploration in general is very barebones and unengaging
>the story never rises above a generic 'boy saves girl from evil' tale. There's simply nothing compelling or interesting going on, even by the low standards of video game narrartive.
>obnoxious overuse of bloom
>entire game takes place in drab, ugly grey-tiled environments (consider how little personality Ico's castle has to any metroidvania or any other games that takes place in one specific environment)

I suspect the only reason it's rated so highly is because of the whole 'games as art' meme that became popular back then.

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You can generally jump in anywhere, the series is far more gameplay focused than it is story focused, the only exception to that rule is with Ys 1 and 2 because Ys 2 is a direct sequel to Ys 1. All the other games are loosely connected so you don't miss out on a whole lot by playing in whatever order you want. You can easily jump into Oath in Felghana or Ys 8, Ys Seven or Origin (this one you get a little more out of if you've played Ys 1 and 2 beforehand) no problem.

>bleeds to death
didnt play the game

One is made in less than a year by a relatively small studio in a desperate attempt to salvage Konami's vaporware game stuck in development hell for like five years with no fleshed out mechanics at the time and the other is made by a multi-billion dollar corp utilizing a much bigger team and marketing as well as one of the most beloved IPs in the west. MGR is also older than SoM.

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I have these filtered but I came in just to watch the webm because Cavaliere footage may as well be porn.

Boss Fights are "too gamey"

I enjoyed The Hand more than the Edge, but they were both definitely the best of the game.

Western games are for casuals who think skyrim is the pinnacle of gaming. They don't care or know much about good boss fights.

Apart of all of them being direct carbon copies of a western game, said western game only got popular because it was an impressive tech demo, while the gameplay was pure garbage, and so was the one in all of its japanese clones. Fixed camera """"horror"""" was by far one of the biggest cancers in vidya. Thank god Frictional Games, another western dev, go figure, saved the genre going back into the good western bases of the genre found in Ultima Underworld, Doom, System Shock and Alien Resurrection, among others.

Don't post Haseul on Yea Forums.

Nope.

Vergil and him

Sorry senpai I only have my uggo folder on this pc.

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Yep.

The best western boss fights are mostly in multiplayer games which might make some people overlook them.

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DMCfags expect better

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>The only AAA Western game I've played with bosses like that was DKC:TF.
You know what, Metroid Prime 1 and 2 kinda have this too, depending on the boss.

I remember Samus Returns having it too kinda.

Although none of those games may be AAA.

Those games hardly count, considering they were first-party titles from a dev working under Nintendo, a Japanese company.

Though metroid Prime has some of the worst boss fights (and gameplay in general) I've experienced in an FPS, so I don't know why you would use that as an positive example

Come on, they want the Game journos to atleast beat the first boss

>Do I seem insurmountable to you?

Fuckin hell he did

BOW DOWN BEFORE THE GOD OF DMC THREAD

>Though metroid Prime has some of the worst boss fights (and gameplay in general) I've experienced in an FPS, so I don't know why you would use that as an positive example
Shit opinion.

Westerners can't animate. You know, except Naughty Dog

>FPS

V A L H A L L A

It's amazing that the first time Square actually got summons right was in Kingdom Hearts, where you summon an overpowered ally that follows you around and gives you access to it's moves. Rather than stronger version of a normal spells but as a 30-second cutscene

youtube.com/watch?v=HdVylBwgvaM

>Shit opinion.

Metroid Prime bosses have massive HP bars, a very limited moveset and an "immune" mode, that just makes them crazy repetetive and long. In addition, they move so little that they are basically stationary (in some cases the bosses are literally chained to something that prevents them from moving).

It doesn't help that the controls are so clunky and Samus' own movement speed so freaking slow in the Metroid Prime games that there's no circle-strafing projectile-dodging fun to be had like there is in other FPS.

I have no idea why anyone would think highly of the Metroid Prime bosses.

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>>FPS
Oh, so you're saying we should compare Metroid Prime to other first-person games that aren't shooters?

Well, if you say so...

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That's literally it though, expecting consolecucks to have standards at all is insane.

>it's not a an FPS so now it's a stealth game
user....

Have you ever looked at a world map?

Imagine spending your day making these images.

Why does WRPGfag always go on about """interactivity""" in games? They never actually show off gameplay, just describe vague aspects of it because they know everybody would rightly just laugh if they actually showed how they play.

Nope.

>WRPG
?????

Do you miss the fag suffix?

Yep.

Nope.

>t. never tried beating the game a second time

Yep.

>Excellence is a habit. We are what we repeatedly do

I love Vanquish but jesus christ I do not see the appeal of playing it on God Hard mode other than bragging rights. It's a game that's just better on Normal so you can goof around and jump all over the place.
youtube.com/watch?v=WVSTGFKsW10

Too bad you can't enjoy good things

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western can never be good

>Why does WRPGfag always go on about """interactivity""" in games? They never actually show off gameplay, just describe vague aspects of it because they know everybody would rightly just laugh if they actually showed how they play.
What are you arguing against? Posting webm's isn't exactly hard.

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Both are console games though.

Nope.

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Why is every WRPG an isometric game with terrible combat or a janky FPS?

Yep.

Boss fights are too video gamey.

Australia is basically America II: Kangaroo Didgeridoo.
Complete with British colonization, oppressed natives, too much land for one country, and ridiculous divide between developed and undeveloped regions.
We're brothers whether you show up to the wedding or not.

Nope.

Yep.

Reminder Thief Dark Projext had all the benefits of being a PC game when it was released, while MGS1 was designed for PS1 with a potential Saturn version .

MGS is designed to be much more arcade like - fast and fluid. This is furtheres in 2, where it's even fastee than MGS1. Additionally the bosses in MGS1/2 are actual really fun.

Shoo mutt.

Witcher 3 may at least look nice, but the combat is dog shit tier. And every western game minus Severance has this issue.

Why is every JRPG turn based, or an awful hack and slash?

Nope.

Yep.

>Why does WRPGfag always go on about """interactivity""" in games? They never actually show off gameplay, just describe vague aspects of it because they know everybody would rightly just laugh if they actually showed how they play.

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????

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Nope.

Is this supposed to be impressive? Perfect Dark has a spy camera drone too.

because it's sony and modern Yea Forums is FILLED with zoomer normalfags that never played DMC4

Yep.

DD is a hackyslashy, but its a good one.

Hack and Slash are Diablo clones. Which is a western genre.
Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma are action RPGs and they're the best in their subgenre.

The game looks fun, but am I the only one that thinks the fighting seems way to slow for a DMC game?

Why is it such a struggle for Kratos to carry one boar? It should feel like carrying a balloon to him.

OP's webm is edited/slowed down when he dodges.

It's a moviegame user. Boar and crystal carrying is there to mask the loading times for the horrible dialogue and skyboxes.

Sigrun was fine, but full of really shitty inconsistencies regarding staggers and exploiting your animation to get unblockable grabs on you. It's not an entirely fair fight which is a shame because the rest is super fun.

The attempt was respectable but it still lacked the disciplined design of a western game, where you would have more solutions to the unblockable bullshit, and the bosses stun windows would be more consistent, without the fight being necessarily easier.

thief's combat should be minuses against the game itself.

They're both great, but hardly the best in the action rpg series.

>he says this but he doesn't list the best action rpgs
kek

twitch.tv/capcomusa/clip/GorgeousSmilingNightingaleBibleThump

I like how you need to post ancient, decrepit games because the current state of the westacuck industry is a laughing stock chock filled with pozzed moviegames and half-finished "games as services".
Even the most dicksucked westacuck games ITT: Deus Ex and Thief have absolutely shit modern reboots further cementing what I just said lel.

unironically the best game to come out of 2017
youtube.com/watch?v=gQ5gtInauiI

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yes

>when your game is a flash game-tier mess of mediocrity so you post cutscenes and soundtrack instead
lmaaaoooo

>2017

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