Have fun when games cost $100+ soon

You joke but that's literally why region locking is a thing.

nah they'll be like 80 and all have lootboxes

this is the coup de grace the industry deserves

So what, I'll just keep pirating games.
With Shitnuvo being completely useless nowadays there's nothing to even delay pirates.

>Nearly half of people at gdc who don't matter want to unionize.

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You mean like right now?

Granted Resident Evil 2 was only $75.

lmao none of them will sell when APEX and battleroyale #8447463 are all free

Man I can't wait for the next collapse. In gonna rebuild the industry like Nintendo did and release a vr console headset that's heavily regulated by my corporation. Get hyped lads. Next dubs decides its name.

This guy gets it, he must know game devs are just going to do what Disney did and just undercut wages with H1B visa poos to code.

Unions will literally bring us the worst age in gaming.

people are willing to spend that much on shitty collector edition games at those prices so why should that matter?
would love to see kotick make his own game with a handful of devs

>nearly half
so less than half?

The day has come where journosites cant bank on SJW trite anymore and is a liability for them because their ilk are bottomfeeder democrats who would milk them for every penny. This is a good thing.

Thank you Hulk Hogan and Trump.

Publishers want us to pay more for games already, it's their only way to keep increasing revenues for investors since number of sold games isn't really growing like it used to.

welcome to die

I hope the devs unionize and prices inflate and the godawful triple A industry crashes and people have to innovate again

your mom

Joke's on you, I only play indie games and retro games anyway.

Economics brainlet here, can i get a rundown on unions

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Games already release in broken states, fucking imagine it when they make crunch periods against union rules.
>Sorry EA, we're going to have to delay the game another six months, thankfully you can't fire us now! Also we're all taking the next six weeks off for vacation.

Japan is going to dab on the west so fucking hard, I'm totally pro union. Only small developers will exist, AAA development is so fucked they can't actually survive unionization.
Also you just KNOW that they will institute impossible to achieve diversity quotas as a part of this.

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Too big for a collapse.

niggerfaggot

Game publishers don't believe in quality workers, they're just going to hire immigrants and fresh graduates, and dispose of them when convenient as they always have.
As long as buggy, incomplete, and uninspired games sell, there will never be sufficient pressure to hire better employees.
feel free to try though.

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50 years of corporate propaganda has made americans retarded about unions.

why does Yea Forums pretend to discuss unions when they can barely discuss videogames

How does stuff like that affect indie development?

well it's a good thing i am enjoying video games less and less and am slowly having less time to play them.

do you think that this guy
should be making more money than the devs while doing almost none of the work?

>This kills the cinematic AAA games with 900 devs
Yes please

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as a talented indie dev who will never join a union, I cant wait until these untalented commies become jobless and the AAA industry crashes

Do it already. But if they add microtransaction, paid DLC, or any method to make money after the base game, go shut them down.

Lysistrata Gambit, with Workers as the Women, Working instead of Sex and Employers instead of Men.

>weeb lives in fantasy world
hmm

don't worry we don't need to explain it to you

literally 0% chance a disparate workforce across US states and national borders working in wildly different conditions for dozens if not hundreds of publishers unionizes. A single union from a single large publisher? Maybe. But widespread? fuck no

I say go for it. It will crash western game development.

a union is a group of workers bargaining with employers as a collective, rather than as individuals.

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show us your games fag

Fuck off, if you're anti-union, you're pro-corporate. Suck EA's dick some more.

Nation wide union exist in other countries.

why do weebs think that literally anything will destroy western devs and make grorious nippon great again

Unions were created to protect Italian workers from foreign immigrants stealing their jobs

Nowadays they just mean "If you commit a thoughtcrime or don't pay protection fees we will take your job"

yes

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>Nowadays they just mean "If you commit a thoughtcrime or don't pay protection fees we will take your job"
Only in muhrica.

If you're in a union, isn't it practically impossible for you to get fired?

Who the fuck would want to be in a union with these obnoxious pricks?

This is what happens when you employ so many diversity hires, eat it cunts.

lmao at the people saying this would kill AAA games. The movie industry has multiple unions and its doing just fine. Guess this is why games will never be considered art

this is 100% bullshit

Should be a good thing but in America they're paid off by the corporations

People who don't like being taken advantage of by an entity they can't fight alone.

what if I'm pro union because i want to see corporations getting shut down thanks to the union's sheningans and anti consumer practices?

is this what americans believe?

Doesn't matter to me. I never pay full price, anyways. Aside from NieR Automata (where I got the Black Box edition), I haven't spent more than 30 on a game since 2008, and even $30 is the exception instead of the rule. Typically, it's $20 or less.

There's better ways of doing that than teaming up with those scumbags.

Regardless of whether it is a good or bad thing, unionising in a new industry is personally dangerous and needs some balls. Soibois simply haven't got the ball for unions.

That's why even though nearly half of gamedev want to unionise there's still fucking none. Those guys are literally too weak and effeminate for unions.

What will the soibois do when they fired because they subscribed to an union? Whine on twitter? What will they do when their employers make it understood that they won't accept unions? Cry silently in their room? An union works pretty much like a mafia, and you really think gamedevs have the cojones for a mafia?

Amazing. care to explain further or we just leaving it at that?

hope licking those corporate boots pays well

Unions are when workers organize and use their collective bargaining power to get better treatment from their employers for all employees. As an example nearly all the work done on the Railroads is done by a Union employee, people unionized to fight the piss poor conditions, shit pay, unnecessarily dangerous work done solely to cut corners and businesses exploiting cheaper labor. This has led to where the Railroads don't just pretend safety is their number 1 concern, it is and a person can easily get fired for not following proper safety procedures. The problem for game devs trying is there are enough people chomping at the bit to get in they'd scab, not acknowledge a strike and do the work under current conditions, which turns any attempt at a strike into you're just out of a job. If they go through with it good for them, but it'll be a 100% uphill battle.

A fight against corporatism that brings protectionism to everyone, even those that deserve to be shit canned.

You'll want the shitposter's union, friend

They have retarded ideas about what unions are and should be, you just need to read this thread to realize that.

its amazing bootlicking retards even itt believe this is a bad thing. the games industry is well known as having dogshit pay and worse working conditions/hours. it is no wonder there is such a vacuum of skill and talent

they also exist in the US, but their regional power varies.
unions in closed shop states are much stronger, because they can monopolize labor in certain markets.
unions in open shop states are much weaker, having to compete with cheaper non-union workers.
national unions work as local branches that operate slightly differently according to their local labor market, but still subject to decisions from higher up.

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why does this website blame jews for everything yet is always ready to get on their knees and suck corporate cock?

>nooo, you are supposed to suck corporate dick 24/7
Imagine being an amerimutt, Jesús christ....

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Not him but what better ways are there?

get some self respect

immigration in italy started a few decades ago and unions started in great britain centuries ago

Sounds like communism to me.

How many times has this thread been made now?
Also why do Americans hate the idea of worker rights?

That's because you have no idea of what communism actually is.

t. corporate shill

I paid fiddy.

Sounds like trash known as "narrative designers" don't feel as secure anymore.

1. Hillbillies and rednecks hate unions because they've never been a part of one. They are also on the political side that licks the boots of corporations, that fire workers without reason.

2. Unions help with job security. When you hear about 600 people losing their jobs from a profitable company, it's because the corporate division is pocketing all the money that could go towards game development and developers.

3. Unions help prevent cut corners. Is a game unfinished? A union would allow the team to finish it, rather than save the company money by pushing it out the door and then placing blame on the developers.

4. Unions help with fair pay. A "bonus" if your game receives a high score in a magazine, only for the magazine to rate the game one point below that? The company has the journalists in their pocket, and would never allow the average score to get to bonus level. If a game was successful, a union would demand profit sharing.

because they believe they are temporarily poor and one day be rich by kissing up

it's run by corporations. Do you really have to ask that?

all of those countries can literally fit inside america, i would bet, not to mention each state is effectively its own culture

Because the propaganda to cripple unions was widespread and took root.

The japanese developers have already unionized and guess what, they succesfully lobbied to make laws limiting the amount of monthly hours they are allowed to work. Sakurai stated in an interview that it was the primary reason that he had to recycle the Smash Wii U engine for ultimate.

>lmao at the people saying this would kill AAA games
let me enjoy my wishful thinking

>Man I can't wait for the next collapse. In gonna rebuild the industry like Nintendo did and release a vr console headset that's heavily regulated by my corporation. Get hyped lads. Next dubs decides its name.
There was no collapse, retard. Nintendo did nothing, gaming was still alive in pc, it was only consoles that did kill themselves. Just look up and see how this said collapse affected gaming in Europe and you are going to see how it didn't.

so who's going to pay for all that? corporations? hahaha, most likely they will increase the price for games from 70$ to 90$ at least.

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Obongo isn't here to bail them out with your money.

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I'll support unions when the SJW menace is dead and not a moment sooner

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yes joe free association has always led to communism

america is one of the richest countries in the world. What's its excuse if smaller countries can do it

Why are millennial snowflakes so entitled? You shouldn’t get paid for whining on Twitter all day.

what country
if you're not American, you don't need to specify; just apologize

>imagine it when they make crunch periods against union rules
Crunch times only exist because that is the only time companies properly fund development. Projects start underfunded and understaffed constantly, and the publisher will ignore every request for assistance, until the point of no return. You see this in the indie market as well, but in that case, it's lazy, single programmers.

There's no such thing as too big to fail.

you can't just raise the price as you want and expect the same amound of sales
but hey knowing gamers and all the shit they eat up and then just cry on the internet, sales would probably be unaffected

I mean the shit that happens here in the industry is fucked so that's a good thing? People shouldnt be forced to work themselves to death then get fired after the product is finished because it's too expensive to keep them on hand after work is done
Or laying off hundreds or people just so your ceo get's his huge bonus you promised him

Hollywood has been unionized for ages, and they don't really have any competition. If game developers unionized twenty years ago the results wouldn't have been all that dramatic.
The major problem is AAA companies treat their employees like complete shit, crunch periods, layoffs after every major release even if it's successful, a large amount of employees aren't even full time so they aren't given benefits etc. I'm not at all surprised these people want to unionize but the results will be devastating, and not even just monetarily. Every AAA developer launches busted games these days, half their man hours and see how much better they get.
Something has to give, either games will take years longer to release, or be scaled back dramatically.
Either way investors will pull out completely at the first sign of unionization, there's no way around that.

Our corrupt political system is pro-employer. They'd bring back slavery if they didn't fear the second amendment.

I live in a third world country that was under leftwing command (president was a fucking union leader). Unions were basically just places for politicians to do nepotism, and they just took people's money while doing nothing beneficial.
Seeing as America is going to be ran by Democrats in the future, something similar is probably going to happen to US unions.

Why are gamers like this like nigga stop spending money

Unions can be a source of oppression just as well as employers, and that's why many people are iffy about unions. What happens when you want or need to work but the union decided every worked needed to strike? What happens when you want to go higher up in the hierarchy through your merit alone, but the union has this nifty list of people being prioritized? In all those cases, butting head with a union can be very dangerous, often time even physically.

Unions can create an undue amount of stress and oppression, especially on people being outside of the norm: the ones that do more work, the ones that try to be better, to do overtime, or to sell more. Unions can and have been shown to behave like a Mafia at time.

The idea that unions are on the side of all "workers" is a laughably naive one. Like all social structures, sometimes they can do good, while other time they are corrupt, violent, and dangerous.

There are already laws against crunch time in Japan. This isn't the 1980's anymore. There is a reason why japanese games constantly get delayed nowadays.

Mccarthyism. Like this fellow.

why would you politically polarize something you're trying to talk up? back to neckbeard

It could actually allow developers to not work soul crushing crunch months. I can see why people would want to unionize when it comes to larger developers or ones that are under monolithic publishers.

Just a dream, but I hope the long term results are a mass exodus from the gaming industry and a return to days when only people passionate about making good games made them.

Unions are pretty useless unless you're a lazy fuck who wants to get paid for doing nothing at work. But in the game industry it's needed. Just look up how any big game company treats their employees. There are so many EA horror stories

>Sakurai stated in an interview that it was the primary reason that he had to recycle the Smash Wii U engine for ultimate.
And where's the source to that, faggot?

they protect shit workers from getting thrown out the door like they deserve. most importantly the diversity hires.

>What happens when you want to go higher up in the hierarchy through your merit alone,
this almost never happens

user, do you live in a Latin American country? That's most likely why. They tend to throw around words, while taking a completely different political stance.

It's funny how all I have to do to know if something is bad is to see who's pushing it
Same people every time
Nice try

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Those faggots are already unbearable to be near.
It'll be 10x worse if they unionize.

like i said, every state is its own pseudo country when it comes to culture. I don't need to mention that commerce and employment laws are unique and different in each state too. a nationwide union could very easily be powerless in a lot of states

i think Yea Forums should unionize

point out who in this thread coward

The same AAA companies making billions of dollars? Yes, that's most likely it. If they raise the price of games, they really will see a crash. Yet at the same time, seeing hundreds of employees laid off from a profitable company, without a class action lawsuit, shows how rigged their contracts are.

GDC is for trannies.

I don't know what they're like in other countries, but here a lot of them are corrupt, either in mean, petty ways, or actively shitsucking criminals. The real eye-opener for most burgers was how thoroughly dirty the teamsters were, since it stayed that way for fucking decades, but there's always been other problems.
Unions often take member money and apply it to political support and activism that the members have no say in, and just as often leverage the "union or nothing" deals they have to extort money they don't have coming to them. A good example of the latter were some places in Wisconsin a few years back, who were stuck buying insurance at exhorbitant prices because they couldn't go to anyone else but the union for it. When reform came in, they could take bids and, surprise surprise, the union fucks grovelled pathetically saying they'd match whatever the lowest offer was. Some of them still stuck with the union's offering, but the result of breaking contractual ties with them was saving literal buckets of fucking money.
Airline ground crews in some states have also been subjected to bullying and intimidation tactics by unions in the past to try to force un-unionzed workers to join. In the situations I know of, the free workers had a way better deal going, and had absolutely no incentive to unionize, but the shit kept up for years.
That's how unions are in the US, and why so many people hear the word and think "scumfucks" rather than "worker rights".

networking is part of merit in almost every job that requires communication but you can't even do that if there was already a fucking queue before you signed up

history brainlet here but isn't that one of the arguments for being pro slavery in the US? Though considering where I am some of you would be ok with that

there are already nationwide unions in the US.
mileage varies by market, but they exist.

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I read the report and it doesn't give any methodology what so ever. Some fake ass news.

>networking is part of merit in almost every job that requires communication
most of you would fail that instantly.

Oh definitely I won't dent any of that for a single second, and anyone who does is an old head with 20-30 years so they don't have to face any of those issues. There are definitely drawbacks like you pointed out, but the people will have to decided if those risks are worth it. It also very much is a "be ready to fall in line" situation, because that's how Unions have their bargaining power is everyone agrees to stand as one. For some people this can be a worse situation, for others it can be hugely beneficial.

I will however dispute one point such as going up in the hierarchy, at least from the Railroad unions, its put to a vote and that's how you get higher up in the Union. If you're talking about jobs then yeah sometimes you get shafted because a guy has been there longer, but on the flip side its not because of favoritism or anything like that for why they got it.

why'd you say history? you're just a regular brainlet because that has literally nothing to do with the topic

Unions aren't as bad as /pol/ will have you believe. A union would allow top level programmers, all four of them left, to help other programmers on a large scale. You would see the power of non-disclosure contracts disappear unless it was related to new technology.

Unions would also allow aspects of the job to be easier. You would have more demand for licensing popular engines, instead of having teams making their own engine from scratch. Would it create a Madden/Atelier series tier stagnation, no. Customers would simply boycott lazy games.

I'll be just fine, my dear pay piggy, because I'll keep getting their shit for free like I've been doing for the last 20 years.

You, on the other hand, need to consider working overtime at your McDonald's job if you want to afford $100 games plus DLCs, season passes and single player microtransactions.

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In my own experience, in my field that is heavily unionised, you need to have the union behind you to gain in rank. Point. End of story. That has, of course, created a large amount of boot licking, traffic, and corruption. Decent people who didn't like McUnionBoss were shafted and shat on too many times to count. People got the message quickly.

You need to suck McUnionBoss' dick or else you won't gain in rank. And you'd better like it.

Many people are hopelessly naive about unions. They don't understand how they are simply a parallel social structure inside a company, and you'd better follow the orders of the parallel social structure and like it, or else. Bullying from unions can get absurdly violent, more violent even than corporate bullying.

Sometimes unions do good. Sometimes they are a cancerous outgrowth. Often they are both, just like corporations are both. It's called real life, kiddos.

People that think economic forces shouldn’t apply to them. Got a shitty job with no security because you have basically no valuable skills and can just be replaced by some random off the street? Don’t want to work in your spare time to be more valuable to your company and actually DESERVE higher wages? Try forming a gang with every other shitter and hold your company to ransom to give you the same pay as people more skilled than you without any of the work!

t. Actual game programmer, by the way. In full knowledge of just how incompetent and fucking lazy the fat slobbish manchildren in QA that want to form a union are.

>What happens when you want or need to work but the union decided every worked needed to strike?
EA better sign those contracts, because we know customers would just start buying more Japanese games.

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they waste so much fucking money and man-hours developing these games that are not fun and barely expand the scope beyond the previous 400 million dollar investment from last year

it's simply not a sustainable business model, it needs to crash.

video game development doesn't scale linearly with manpower you need loeadership and an effective blueprint otherwise you end up with Star Citizen and you've spent a billion dollars on a bunch of things that don't come together into a game

Thank God I don't live in your 3rd world shithole where unions are as retarded as you describe them

Been gaming for over 20 years now and there's still lots of classics I haven't finished or even touched.

Basically they can do whatever because I've already got enough entertainment for a lifetime or two.

the point was that slavery ended and states were able to more or less deal with all the new workers that were able to work for a wage. You have no faith in a country that came together multiple times to achieve a goal. Shit just look at WW2

this site is infested with literal fascists and neo-nazis

it's their MO

New games costing more doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'll just continue not buying anything above $20.

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>networking
I hate this meme so much.

Not him but I'm Italian and remember seeing fucking Detroit in stores at 75€, so I'm guessing it's not rare for AAA games

Only maybe the corruption is ingrained to your shitty nation and will manifest in any form of organization you attempt?

Of course unions can be corrupt, but the point is that with proper vigilance or even without it, it is better than letting the oligarchs have no opposition at all.

>Union bad

fuck off fascist scum

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>"We want to unionize!"
>nobody actually making an union and just want to offload responsibility

The gaming industry is the most unprofessional industry there is, stat.

user, if everyone in America could program, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. High level programming IS a skilled trade, yet programmers have no rights, when they make billions for the companies they slave away in.

If Activision had fired people from their marketing department, nobody would bat an eye. The problem is, they damaged every last department by underhandedly getting rid of useful members, just to insure investors that things would somehow improve.

>western games
I only ever buy western shit when it is on sale for $10 or so. Jap games I buy full price.

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You guys just can't help it can you
That's a good thing

the government is an example of too big to fail. And if it ever "falls" expect chaos

what about journalists?

>It's called real life, kiddos

You parody of real life created by kikes and decades of kike propaganda hardly counts as real life, mutt boy.

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This is how it has always seemed to me, so why are there so many people saying "durr suck corporate cock" in this thread? Are they just low skill workers or have no experience? Is there any upside for unions?

honestly better to have a system that can address that problem than have no system at all

Have fun with even more of our jobs being outsourced to China and India.
Half of Rockstar has already been moved to India, and EA, Activision and Ubisofts Chinese sweatshops have tripled in size over the last two years.
Not to mention there are now TONS of chink and poo sweatshops doing outsourcing work for AAA titles.

Fucking retards.

In theory they're great. In practice they get infiltrated by political assholes.

>Unions
>Free

hearty kek

Nothing is stopping them from creating an union if they actually wanted one.

>beyond the previous 400 million dollar investment from last year
user, this is why we want to see unions. We never see funding like that for ANY videogame. We'd see million dollar funding for a game that makes billions. Then less and less each year.

>Have fun when games cost $100+ soon.
i wouldn't mind that if the games were actually worth it

>game developers unionize
>all game development except for indie is immediately moved into eastern europe and asia
>mainstream games are longer influenced by american blue hairs screaming and screeching at their own studios demanding for social justice in both employment (a.k.a. nepotism) and video games themselves

>games get bigger AND cheaper because no one in company is forced to support lives of a bunch of LA faggots who spend 2k per month on rent alone

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states rights? yeah, that was what we fought the civil war over. there's this thing called the bill of rights in our constitution and it limits the power the federal government can exercise over its constituents, which includes individuals and states. it's kind of a foundational aspect of our system of government

go away, joe

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After Activision just fired like 800 developers without warning a few weeks ago, can you blame them?

They would never have that ability due to how publishers are run. Companies tend to hire the same stooges from other companies. Not because of poaching, but because they keep getting laid off and picked up somewhere else.

Some are shitposting contrarians, and some are AOCauseheads floating around the board.
Unions can be useful in breaking up unfair work situations where the employees are being taken advantage of though, which is why most people have always had sympathy for the developers in game studios, while telling the striking voice actors to go suck a bag of rotted off syphdicks.
When reform is actually needed, unionizing is often the only way you can get it. What happens later tends to never be good though.

>states have a right to over-ride the constitution

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you get what you pay for.
professionals are expensive, and if publishers want to cut costs by hiring cheap and unskilled employees, that's on them.

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>Is there any upside for unions?
They can be handy when your boss is locking you inside an overcrowded sweatshop with inadequate fire protection but at some point it's just another self-serving entity that uses workers as pawns, drains companies and interacts with the government in dubious ways
As always be most skeptical of those trying to feed you a line of utopian feelgood crap

Right, "game devs". I mean, why wouldnt the Community Managers, Emotion Consultants, Diversity hires, and all the other extra expendable flubber not want to band together?

Oh and just to expand on that, Unions only fucking work when the work that needs to be done needs to be done LOCALLY, like garbage collection, or dock work etc and even then they can just start importing cheap shitskins to replace you onsite, with game development they don't even need to ship in shitskins to replace you, they can just close up shop and open up overseas.

Anyone arguing for Unions within the games industry has no fucking idea what they're getting us into.

yeah when kotick makes bank off it

Yes. Literally yes. Imagine you’ve figured out a way to get more money without any fucking work and then some do-gooder higher on the food chain spikes your whole plan into the ground. Imagine how much rage and contempt you would hold for him when he tells you to just git gud and you, in your patheticness, believed you’re doomed to mediocrity for the rest of your life. He’s standing in your way, the bastard. And for what reason? Surely not because what he’s saying is true, no no. It must be because he irrationally loves corporations or something.

GDC is literally a joke
no real developers go there
they asked a bunch of diversity managers and indie "devs" for their opinion, not actual devs

Yes. Over state rights to practice slavery.

come on, anime dumbo, you have pink hairs in sony hq influence games made abroad RIGHT NOW

Are you sure that you actually care about japanese labor laws and that you are not just some bitter smash fag that wants to rant about rosters and engines in a thread about unions?

>Activision just fired like 800 developers
anyone who works at video games is a developer now?

Because most of the people demanding "worker's rights" are either failures or propagandists.
Teacher unions in the US are pure cancer for example.

GOOD, then I Will have more games to pirate

Thank you

What the hell are you even trying to say?

Good, hopefully quality improves to.
I'd rather a game come out months later and be more polished than the broken shit 99% of releases are these days.

>AAA company makes millions of dollars but can fire people freely cus no Union

>AAA company raises the price on games due to Unions which leads to less sales and causing the company to lay off people

So basically it will end up at the same place except everyone has to pay more for Video games? fuck that.

>implying any nip company adheres to the laws regarding limiting work hours

That Will never happen
They Will cost 60 bucks and the collector editions and shit like that Will make them money they need

it's something burgers will never have because they're too afraid of being branded as commies

Stupid goyim lmao

they fired a bunch of useless fucks

They weren't developers you absolute retard.

>Federal government can just quickly and haphazardly force through through new controversial legislation or amendments and demand everyone stop what they're doing and follow it even if the states had systems in place for it beforehand
Totally cool bro

They have that ability. It's called the united states labor law. Anyone in your company can one day decide to unionize or make an union. If irrelevant game jornos and gdc tranny developers want an union, then why don't they just make one instead of putting themselves on display as victims?

just last year some narrative designer woman started a shitstorm when someone claimed she has fuck all to do with game development

good. cutting the dead weight of your company is the smart thing to do

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Have you not been reading the news this year or something? It was fucking massive news just recently when it happened.

>"In the game industry, there’s a lot of overtime, all-nighters, and coming in on holidays! It’s a practice that has been occurring for a long time. That suddenly changed in recent years, though."
>"Why is this now the case, you ask? Compliance. In other words, companies are placing increased importance on following rules and regulations! Nowadays, this is happening at a lot of game companies too.2
>"I think this is mainly to make sure that employees and contract workers aren’t working over 45 hours of overtime a month. This is because of “Article 36.” So even if a person wanted to, if they go over the set working hours, there could be an investigation for not following the Labor Standards Act. If this happens, it damages the image of the company. It’s recommended that work gets wrapped up early, and if the rules aren’t followed, you could be punished."

- Masahiro Sakurai, 2018

They were not developers. They were random workers.

see

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*sniff sniff* who brought fish lol?

>work your ass off for ungodly hours for a shitty wage
>get laid off once the game releases
yesss.... fuck the game devs that want job security and to be treated more than disposable assets.
threads like these are how you tell most of Yea Forums is unemployed.

Commies are bad 'mkay
Competition is good 'mmkay
Unless its me competing with Chad for Stacies 'mmkay

Is this some kinda weird vendetta where you claim they weren't REAL game developers because they worked for Activision or something? You're not making much sense.

That's just lip service. Nips still work ridiculous hours and off themselves in huge numbers. Of course he isn't going to admit to breaking the law in an interview.

>implying I give a fuck about Western devs

Im in a union and people get fired.

Unions are supposed to be there to prevent poor working conditions not granting tenure. What a load of shit.

You think everyone who works at Activision is a game developer? They didn't fire a single game developer.

That's why you should stop working for other people as soon as possible, Yea Forums. Fuck unions and fuck big business. Escape the rat race, have your own team working for you, and treat them well.

just get a job at a different company
with all those skills you've learned you can easily get a new job

This is the last response you're getting until you stop being vague.

You can't see that he's baiting you?

>unironically defending slavery

go back to your discord dude, you're doing more harm than you think

This is correct, but it still has fuck all to do with a nationwide union.

Lifetime pirate here
Does price even matter when you buy a game?

because they have a victim complex and don't have the required personal power to manifest change in their environment. why do you think they play the victim instead of doing something productive? that's the mechanism in which they manifest change in their environment. they complain until you do what they want

it's the same at all of the big ones and the small companies rarely make good enough games to earn a good wage or have no vacancies

>this is the average burger brain
the absolute state lmao

devs can leave whenever they want and form their own No Koticks Club and get 100% of the money and 100% of the risk

Then what about when they fire you too?

I'd argue 80% of that 400 million go into marketing.

It's not an interview. It's from his own personal business blog read by other Japanese game developers.

He goes on to discuss how development changed for Ultimate, so as to get the most work out of the employees within a more limited timeframe.

Some of them may have been devs, but the news was that the majority were PR and marketing folks, and comms people who worked on junk like esports. Not devs.
So useless fucks.

>shitty studios unionize and start charging shitloads for their bland, uninspired games
>the market crashes and indie games flourish as game development returns to its roots

A man can dream.

Yes, bigoted user. Ubisoft Montreal, which hires thousands of people, is run by a single room full of women.

all of you will turn into communists as soon as you finish high school and get a job

Gamedevs are already paid below the minimum needed for h1bs, and Indians are completely lacking in video game culture to motivate them into game programming over something more profitable like enterprise software.
The Indians I work with don't even play fifa.

go to a different company
what's so hard about that

why do you think this will affect the games' price when games that cost 10 mil are priced the same as ones that cost 100 mil?

What about when they fire you too?

Getting a job didn't make me forget human history in which 100% cases of communism end in a disaster.

If they had manageable pay, they could. Then get blacklisted by the same industry run by the people they were enslaved by. The only solution is to go indie.

Never said programming wasn’t skilled trade. In fact, that was my whole point. I busted my ass learning to code in my spare time, wrote my own software rendered after figuring out all the math by hand. That’s what got me my job in games. I’ll be damned is some fat lazy fuck in QA gets paid as much as me despite doing a job that I could do when I was 19.

>programmers have no rights

Dunno what you’re talking about. My country, the UK, has basic employee rights. Maybe if I was American I wouldn’t have as many. But I would also have more jobs going around and get paid more. I would also have far fewer barriers to entry as a small business, should I ever decide to start one.

>make billions for the the companies they slave away in

I’ve never made a billion dollars for anyone, I’m not that good at my job. If I was I would start my own company. I’m not a slave, I get paid adequately and I have employee development programs that put me on a path to more responsibility, better skills, more employability and higher wages.

Unlike the commies that advocate unions, I am not bitter about literally everyone that earns more than me. For the most part they deserve it. The CEO earns a shitload, but I certainly would not want his job and don’t think I could do it anywhere near as effectively. The guy has worked his entire life to build the company, he’s worth his salt as far as I am concerned. I don’t see him as an oppressor.

In fact, the only people I think ARENT worth the money are all the diversity hires we make, which is something unionists also advocate for.

begone jidf shill. your quabbalistic trickery has no power in this forum.

-t. kikeposter

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>Get paid to work
>"Durrrrrr, I'm just like Kunta Kinte"
Moron

if they unionize them studios will never be able to get ride of all the diversity highers that have ruined gaming for the past few years and then all game will forever suck

Yea Forums isn't very good at economics.

new job
more experience so you ask for higher pay

What user is trying to say is that working makes you see the value of a dollar, but seeing nepotism and pay differences makes you bitter enough that you'd rather see fairness.

It's actually the other way around. Commies are all kids and retarded people. Once they have an income of their own and a stake in the country, normal people realize pretty quick that Communism is fucking stupid.

What about when they fire you too?

I remember that woman because I stalked her on linkedin, it was Carmen Sinek. She stated that on twitter some garbage about women making games now and that shes working fulltime as a developer or narrative designer, but when I digged into her linkedin profile it turned out her job was to bring pastries and coffee to meetings and didn't actually work a paid position (she was hired for 3 months as an intern). In the 15 years of """work""" experience after her liberal arts degree, her only real work was having done the concept art for 3 MTG cards - which never made it into the final release. She never had a steady job and her rich parents were paying various admissions to art colleges during that time. Imagine being this kind of loser and lying on the internet with your full name.

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rinse and repeat

>implying the only time the feds did this was with slavery
Several instances of the government being shady, like with abortion

The gaming industry as a whole makes dozens of billions every year. The breakdown is even worse when you see EA, Activision-Blizzard, Take-Two and other corporations pulling in most of that money.

But what about when you become jaded and bitter about the constant cycle of working in an industry that could not give less of a fuck about you?

And whining about differences solves nothing. Make yourself as valuable and driven as you can and you'll be fine, even if you get laid off.

If you ever had a managing position or tried to start any business anywhere, anything with some actual responsibility, you'd quickly realize that communism couldn't ever work.

This. The $60 dollar game is a myth. Oh, your game cost $60? What about the 20-30 dollar season pass (which is more expensive ala cart)? What about the 'cosmetic microtransactions' buried in it? What about the loot boxes now yours for just $5 rares guaranteed?

What about the fact that game development is actually trending CHEAPER in the last decade thanks to the establishment of powerful near standardized tools and engines? How much money do you think EA saves using Frostbite for everything even though they developed it a decade ago for a single genre? Why do you think most developers use unreal?

THE $60 GAME IS A MYTH. YOU'VE BEEN PAYING MORE IN SMALLER INCREMENTS EVERY YEAR FOR THE LAST DECADE. WAKE THE FUCK UP

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Dude, tell me you're not retarded enough to think your situation is the same as what happens in america. Drawing parallels with a completely different place just doesn't work. Nobody was talking about what's happening in the UK.

hopefully by then you would've stopped being a retard and gotten a good stable job

Reminder that Jefferson was right about the supreme court.

>and then the HL 3 team told me they were gonna unionize

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Then change jobs. It's not like the skills required in game development are solely valuable in game development.

In this hyperbolic situation you're in the games industry so clearly not.

Let them unionize. Steam has no obligation to sell union only games.

>more experience so you ask for higher pay
what jobs are you getting where you can ask for a higher pay straight from the hiring process and get it? Especially in an industry that treats devs like shit?

Why the fuck haven't they unionized yet, that's just fucking smart.

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>They can be handy when your boss is locking you inside an overcrowded sweatshop with inadequate fire protection
Do you really think that would happen if your work was worth enough? Literally the only people getting that sort of treatment didn't deserve proper fire protection; the kinds of people who could be replaced in seconds if/when they were stupid enough to have their hands chopped off by their work equipment.

the UK, has basic employee rights. Maybe if I was American I wouldn’t have as many
We have none. It's why Amazon is allowed to make their employees literally run from parts of the warehouse all day long.

You get a higher salary AT HIRING because you negotiated for it and had the skills and experience to back it up.

I wouldn't mind paying that amount of money for games I really like and were made with just as much effort and quality. But who am I kidding - that'll never happen.

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>As long as buggy, incomplete, and uninspired games sell, there will never be sufficient pressure to hire better employees.

they don't, though. fallout 76 sold like shit even though it had a great brand behind it because everyone, even normies, knew it was a shitshow. that's the thing nowadays, the age of the uninformed game consumer is more or less over. people don't buy games based on box art or marketing anymore, they search for youtube reviews made by random ecelebs and other fuckos and get their information that way. and these game companies are shitting themselves because they can't really buy them out like they could with journalists before. not that they aren't trying, it's just that ecelebs are naturally much harder to buy since their entire livelihood depends on being a likeable and authentic personality, rather than just a paid shill that can hide behind a corporate name like IGN or whatever.

i think this is partly the cause of the current video game crash. companies are going full ham on marketing, but none of it really sticks unless the game is actually good, and games without a great brand or f2p simply don't prosper anymore. they sometimes do ok like the far cry games or the new assassin's creed or whatever, but they don't print money like a decently made f2p game like fortnite.

anyone who opposes the unionization of the games industry on the basis that it will make games too expensive or crash the industry is more or less admitting that the industry is unsustainable without abusing the workforce. if you can't put out a game without overworking and underpaying your employees, then maybe your company fucking sucks.

>game devs demand more money
>theyre going on a strike just like theyve seen the big airline workers do
>game development is halted and either rushed or delayed in the end
>record losses
>companies have to fire employees
>they demand high severance pay
>companies end up losing even more money
>games get massivly more expansive in response to keep loses at minimum
>nobody buys games for $80+
>professional game industry sees a huge collapse as investors dont want to pump any more money into it
GJ

>$100+
that would actually kill the industry and swiftly.
I'm not a poor nig or anythign but there's no way in fuck could I justify spending 100 or more on the shit quality games we have been getting since the PS4 era.

>and treat them well
Enjoy not making any money.

did you miss this part
>Especially in an industry that treats devs like shit?
what's stopping them from passing you over someone who is willing to working for pennies

>unskilled laborers deserve death
watch that edge, boy.

Nah, we'll just get the next guy fresh out of school so we can pay him half as much. Better luck next time, lol.

Unions used to be good in America. Many decades ago. These days they are insanely corrupt and are basically just corporations in and of themselves. Maybe it's better in other countries, but not here. I fully support worker's rights, but I can't support the unions here unfortunately.

>people don't buy games based on box art or marketing anymore,
Youre retarded. EA has had some losses with recent games, but people still shill out for everything that even has a remotely popular brand name. Just look how many people sperged out over Pokemon Pikachu and Eevee even though its a glorified 60$ Pokemon go for the Switch.

Would it affect an independant dev who works alone?

Oh no, that would suck

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You see guys, AAA workers could unionize, they could do whatever the fuck they want. That won't change the fact that in their unsustainable quest for ever increasing earnings, 3-4 AAA developers are going to explode in the next decade. It won't be an industry crash, but I hope it will be enough for the board to understand that buyers don't have infinite money, and there aren't infinite buyers, so you can't expect your games to earn more and more forever.

Gamedev is one of the industries where unionizing won't work. There are so many retards lured in as they like video games that companies can just ignore unionized guys completely.
So yeah, based Kotick will proceed to dab on them trannies.

Nope.

>want to make a big game
>don't want really wanna hire more people to do it so just overwork the ones i have
heh ez

why are you ok with investors putting money into games? How are you certain they know what gamers want?

My goal is to live comfortably, not to balloon into giga-billionaire. Greed is a sin for a reason.

Then use your skills in a different job or work for yourself.

oh for sure but they've basically required games to have a prime time television advertisement slot with a rolling stones song playing in the background which means like half if not more of the budget doesn't even affect the game in any capacity. its the worst possible situation, you have a bloated budget and all the downsides of explaining yourself to corporate and no benefit to the end result

you would have a better but still shit situation where the unions compel the publishers to keep as much of that manpower as possible even though most of the manpower is completely inefficient

i love watching videos of game development studios because you can see the collevtive waste of manpower and the desire to just get their job over with so they can work on the part of the project that they actually want to, and quite frankly i don't think unions keeping those workers on board would really help increase the quality of games

Why would you work in a place where your co-workers were just fired for no reason? When your company is experiencing record profits?

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They wouldn't die if they worked smart enough to avoid it. And nobody is forcing anyone to work somewhere without fire protection, they can go elsewhere if they want that kind of thing.

Investors are how anything gets made, dipshit.

>Literally doesn't understand how amendments work
Also if the state has a better system in place or stricter laws then they are in no way required to do a damn thing.

Someone like Toby Fox would work outside of the union, but a group working for a publisher like 505 Games would have the chance to opt in.

As long as they're smart enough to band together to protect themselves it doesn't matter what stupid pointless bullshit point you're trying to make

>Maybe it's better in other countries, but not here
In Germany being in a union basically means you will ALWAYS get more money and/or vacation days over time. If the companies dont accept the demands you just go on a strike and bargain until the union leaders think theyre happy. There is 0% consequence for the work force, unfortunatly. I honestly would like to see a company having to lay off a large percentage of their workers because of too many strikes.

based and devpilled

>the age of the uninformed game consumer is more or less over.
That'd be nice, but as long as EA still sells millions of sports games, I have no faith.

I literally said it’s not the same in America in multiple dimensions. To repeat, you guys get paid more and have more jobs going around, at the expense of fewer rights and benenfits.

if you are going from job to job constantly you obviously aren't hurting for money in which case unions would mean nothing to you.

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Do you really need to ask this?
What kind of fucking worker rights is he going to take from himself?
>GIVE ME LONGER BREAKS OR I'M GOING ON STRIKE.
>FUCK ME. I'D RATHER FIRE MYSELF.
>I CAN'T FIRE ME I QUIT.

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works on my machine, my union cooperates with the employers so everyone is happy.
i make more than open shop guys, but get held to a higher standard because i also represent my union.
the company gains access to a labor pool of higher quality, more reliable, and better trained workers.
the union keeps an eye on everything and takes a cut to keep running, how it spends the money it gets is voted on by the members.
all of this is done in Texas, so perhaps having to compete with illegals is keeping my union honest, but whatever the case i'm happy with it.

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>End up quitting and getting a normal software-related job
>Go to work with a regular 9-5 schedule
>Don't get fired out of the blue at the end/near end of a project

This is the usual cycle with those who work(ed) in game dev.

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if you actually read through my entire post, you'd have noticed the part where i mention brand as a major factor. nintendo's brand is basically untarnished next to complete shitshows like EA, who can only really do well with a game if it's f2p nowadays

i'm a solo independent game dev and I started and joined a union. i'm currently on strike as we speak. fuck you it's not procrastination. it's a strike.

Growth is life. If you aren't constantly increasing your earnings and profit you will inevitably be overrun by more ambitious companies who will do what you can on a larger scale and for cheaper, and then you will become bankrupt.

could you explain how?

Very true

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why does Yea Forums hate sports
did a quarterback bully you or something

>Why would you work in a place where your co-workers were just fired for no reason?
because you need money to live comfortably

We were discussing the event that a skilled and experienced worker gets laid off.

I get the joke here, but it's not really funny.

Shit dude it’s not like you can’t skill up for another industry entirely. But we’re talking to people who can’t do any work in their spare time, not even go to the gym. Not even a hobby. Just veg in front of the tv and videogames.

Bobby Kotick gets 30 million $ a year and tell me, what is he responsible for? You know how many developers and community managers could be hired for that money? They could make entire new games or do other useful stuff. Yet there is one single fat white male at the top that sucks so much money from the company while not doing any real work. If you don't think that's problematic then I'm sorry for you.
He didn't build Activision Blizzard. He didn't create a single game in his life. He probably doesn't even play games or have any idea what does it take to make a game. He came from a fucking washing powder industry. He was hired as shareholder's puppet. Really, tell me what is the justification of him getting 30M$ a year?

All the fucking unions are corrupt. They exist to stall for time before contract renegotiations so that big companies can afford to get away with paying their employees lower wages for a few extra months or years before the union caves in and accepts a deal that is nowhere near what they originally pretended to be gunning for. Union bosses hang out with industry bosses all the fucking time, it's just common sense. Unions need people from the industry, people from the industry have connections within the industry, their connections get in touch with them and they cut a deal. Money changes hands, maybe not in the form of cash, but if not then they get expensive dinners, tickets to exclusive events, trips around the world, etc. All the while the unions are collecting ludicrous fees from their members.
Communism is bullshit.

Any competent person would best be sending those resumes out though

you are naive if you think going from job to job doesn't incur some kind of cost

i never knew 80 hour work weeks were living comfortably

my post was a bit of a gross overgeneralization about the markets we have now. people who play flavor of the month stuff like apex legends aren't really the same people who buy sports games. sports games live in like a weird separate universe where the most giga uninformed normies buy them regardless of anything. they just see a new madden so they buy it. these sports games aren't really made for the kind of people who play fortnite, they're made for people who buy sports games.

i'm gonna start my own game studio in my apartment

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Exactly, but I said what I did expressly to counter any fucktard that wanted to respond saying it was impossible because learning new skills is hard.

We're talking about unskilled labor, here. If they try to band together then they can be replaced.

Why did that post make you think I hate sports? Doing sports is great, watching is a borefest imo, but whatever floats your boat. Playing sports can be nice I guess, but again, I'm not a fan of realistic sports games. Buying the same sports game year after year is fucking retarded though and those retards are the main reason EA isn't burning to the ground already. Fuck them

>be pirate
>don't pay a dime for games
Guess I don't care then.

Are we assuming that this hypothetical worker is being laid off every year or so?

Not when your business is a creative one. More ambitious companies can shit out their soulless trash as much as they want, they'll never grab my niche.

Because they’re too lazy and comfortable, but also too stupid to realise companies are well within rights to exploit this.

there's no reason you can't do both

>things that never happened

tell me what kind of growth is there when EA releases the same football game over and over again

just 400 families control over 80% of the shares on the entire stockmarket. what he does is come from one of those families or is a friend of theirs.

we're assuming they can find another job in the first place

you know most people don't buy it every year, maybe every 3 or 4
I have friends who still play 2006 soccer games

More power to you, and good luck, user.

That's literally not a thing in any industry with more labor than demand for it, why the fuck would I hire you for more when I can pay shittier wages and never run out of fucks to fire if they do a shit job?

The industry just booted out thousands of people with years of experience to hire a bunch of cheaper less experienced labor because there is literally no shortage of people clamoring for the scraps to try and live the lie that the experience they earn will get them anything other than a pink slip when the next project roles around.

Games WILL cost $100 + soon

But not because of unions.

Because of the huge cost in makign them. Because graphics are becoming more advanced, textures are becoming more detailed, more artists are being hired along with more programmers, more staff in general.

Games are no longer becoming viable to create at a $60 price point and will increase by $10-20 next generation.

The exact same thing happened with

PS1 > PS2 > PS3 > PS4

Games. The price point increased by around $10 each generation as graphics fidelity increased and therefore labour costs increased to match hardware.

I very much think game prices will increase a lot in future & devs will focus more on making a game an experience / service that can be played for years with new content rollouts etc.

SImilarly to how fighting games and esports games have seasons, single player games will have seasons with content mix ups and new assets and still making you pay afterwards.

The season format is working really well from a finance standpoint with tekken 7, GTA V etc. I can see all AAA devs clicking on soon and implementing it everywhere.

This also reduces piracy as customers will have to be constantly connected to a server to experience the game fully.

It will kind of be like the new hitman games.

What they dont tell you is that 90% of those are indie devs, they dont matter.

Rising production costs have not let to significant price increases in the industry yet, why would they now?

>what is crunch time

It depends on the field. A company can do just fine in a niche industry without much growth.

>Have fun when games cost $100+ soon.
Already there amigo.

Diminishing, apparently.

Start it in the bathroom. Call it "Shitpot Games". Your tagline can be "Still better than EA"

you are the one suggesting he leave his job which again comes back to this point

No shit they want to unionize. Game development has infamously poor working conditions. It's an unstable employment compared to other software development, it has low wages, lots of overtime, exploits young and passionate people by working them until they burn out before firing them and bringing in a new replacement. These poor working conditions might be expected to some degree if it's an entry-level job with no skill requirement, but game development isn't like that. It often requires higher education or specialized knowledge to get into the field.
Why wouldn't you, as an employee of a gaming corporation, want to unionize given the circumstances as they are?

>Work in game industry a little bit as /3/
>End up getting an interview for an automotive company making /3/ videos
>Salary triples, no overtime, go home at 5, private health care
>Only benefits working in games were free cereal and soft drinks

Fuck film and games
Daycare centres for middle class kids

Games have always cost around 60 bucks.

*yawn*

Selling microtransactions inside full price games, user. Getting people hooked on spending money inside the games they spend money on. That's profit, that's growth.

Nothing a quick pillaging of the Vidya Coast wont remedy. Vidya bpoty will be plenty, Yar Yar.

>no reason

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okay now i am positive that communists or brand shills have overtaken the education system because this betrays such a complete and fundamental lack of understanding in how a marketplace operates outside of a corporate monopoly

a more ambitious company competing with you on a larger scale and for cheaper will drive you to modify your approach compete with that company. the problem happens when you don't attempt to modify your business approach because you have made a trust with your competition or are so confident in your control of the market that you can loss lead to drive out competition

growth is life, except every single life form has a point where it stops growing because it stops being an effective survival strategy

good, shareholders retarded idea of infinite unsustainable growth is why we get so many shit AAA games stuffed with micros and season passes

That's what indies are for.
Anyone who joins the union will be immediately turned away from most major devs.
Or development gigs will go over to china/korea/japan.

>Because of the huge cost in makign them.
SO FUCKING STOP
NOBODY CARES IF YOUR CAN RENDER 6 MILLION INDIVIDUAL HAIR FOLLICLES.
YOUR GAME RUNS LIKE ASS AND LOOKS LIKE ASS WHEN RENDERED AT A NORMAL PLAYING DISTANCE.

THIS AIN'T A FUCKIN MOVIE, TODD. STOP BLOWING HALF YOUR BUDGET ON FAMOUS VOICE ACTORS.

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optional

>Game development has infamously poor working conditions.
citation
> low wages
how low is low wages?
> overtime
how much overtime ?
>exploit
What does this mean?

Does it really matter how often they buy it when it still sells millions?

>tfw all the corporat dick sucking anti union faggots in this thread.

I bet they are all burgers.

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yeah the problem isn't corruption within unions, it's unions themselves. we should just get rid of them. nothing should stand in the way of management being able to pay you as little as possible for as much work as possible. those suits, now those are an incorruptible lot right there. no corruption to be found in the owner class at all

Almost no games do this and the people who buy the games guilty of bad practices are morons who don't deserve their own money.
t. never played a game with lootboxes or a season pass

Games will forever cost 0€

If the industry doesn't want you, then go it alone and prove them wrong or change fields.

Unions are not communism, dumbshit

>defending microtransactions
can't wait to pay for the endings of games I play

why on earth would communists be spreading that message? it's very clearly the people who it benefits the most that spread this sort of message, aka the elite

Man, not even an attempt.

spic, actually

Is the cost of games increasing or is it marketing?

This was the discussion of an insider trading investigation brought on by the investors that were left out. He was making millions as CEO of Activision, then when Blizzard "bought back their freedom", it was actually him and a certain group of investors that bought the company from Vivendi Games, so now he is setting his wages, along with pulling in his percentage of the company.

>unions are a bad thing
I'm still trying to figure out why Americans are so adamant at defending corporations.

Which brings us back to this point.

absolutely fucking false. it is only getting cheaper and faster thanks improved tools and AI

as is your employment, goodbye. we found another employee willing to work crunch time because of our unreasonable deadlines, don't you know our shareholders need to benefit the most from your hard work?

Wanting for game companies to keep more money is corporate dick-sucking but wanting workers to keep more money is not union dick sucking hmmm

Americans see themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires and act like they are just about to break out of the rat race. Tax is theft, unions are communism and government regulations are a declaration of war on freedom.

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>Biggest entertainment industry in the world won't be able to handle the cost of labor being paid more
>The same industry that saw the price of games double in two decades with the response being the industry growing exponentially.

You do know that videogames were 30 dollars in the 90s right?

This, we reached an acceptable level of graphical fidelity in the early 2000's, now it's just too much. Start hiring people who know how to use the graphics available instead of throwing more polygons in.

Capcom pls

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user, when GameStop dies, and Amazon's prices stagnate to Nintendo levels, we'll see far less people buying games. They could ask $1,000 for a game, but nobody will buy it.

You really think corporate shilling is just a meme? There's multiple market groups that specialize in controlling social media and they're all afloat, so they definitely get a lot of use.

Just get an investor and form indie studios
Why do you anti-corporate free spirits want to work for THE MAN so badly?

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>assumptions

Unions and Corporations are two sides of the same coin.
Large organizations of all kinds are shit, and we'd be better off without any of them.

The whole point of this venture is profit, user. That's what's important. Finding new ways to get people to give you money. The enjoyment is largely a perk, and if you can get people to enjoy giving you money while they use your product, then all the better.
This is why game companies, heck, most companies employ psychologists and economists, to find the ways humans tick and use it.

Fun fact: There's only so many willing people to go through and current students are wising up to these practices, so it's really a matter of time before this crunch/bubble is popped.

>what is he responsible for
What do you think a CEO does?

this is more or less true, although i think it's more that games will have much more varying price points in the future. we're going to see 60 dollar games with 60 dollar season passes, but also 30 dollar and 40 dollar indie titles, and also tons of different f2p titles with varying forms of monetization.

also anyone who thinks game prices will noticeably go up due to unions is a dumbass considering dev wages make up about 1-3% total cost of the game, so the price hike would be more like 2 dollars. of course, these corporations would probably try to convince people the price hike would be 10 dollars in an effort to turn people against unions, which is what american corporations have been doing since like the 1950s or something

could you have some input besides an inflammatory piece of greentext?

I have no idea.

I'm sure plastering billboards all over Time's Square or running Superbowl commercials isn't that pricey

Here's a newsflash pal, employers don't have a responsibility to you, hey have a responsibility to their company. This is what your generation doesn't get, your boss isn't, and shouldn't be, looking out for your interests, you're an asset to them, just like you shouldn't be bending over backwards for them, because you are more important to yourself than your employer. But the unions? They're supposed to exist to help their members. When you pay union fees you are paying for a service, and instead they rip you off.

you could get a job but not that higher wage which is why I asked that question you barely answered

Something to do with burgers, I think

unionisation is one step towards that

There are more places in the world than Time's square, dude.

Often times, the marketing cost is usually the same as the dev cost.

What a cumstain you are

With each passing day we come closer to a western movieshit industry collapse. Can't wait.

Because of how investing works in the videogame industry. All the investors are only interested in making money, so they flock to the soulless companies like EA. When start-up investors are companies like Tencent, that just want to own your studio and the full rights to your games.

Bunch of people group together for a common goal.

The issue with unions is that eventually, they claim to represent everyone which just isn't true, and then the union becomes a self-sufficient entity with its own goal opposite to the people it claims to represent, and considering it becomes a huge driving force, everyone tries to get a hold of it and control it. And quickly it'll get infiltrated by LGBTQIBBQ and niggers, and then you know what will happen.

Freedom is largely better, but some people don't like freedom. Guess who.

>swivel chair on hardwood floor

Never gonna make it.

The goverment failed eariler this year

If AAA games are 100 bucks but are quality and they actually take their time I will pay for it.

Games have been at $60 bucks since at least the snes years. They're actually overdue to go up in price for the base product due to inflation.

nobody joins a union to make less money stupid. you'd making a helluva lot less without those union dues

>Corporate unions are an example of all unions.

Of course you have corrupt union bullshit here and there, but the idea that it is a widespread phenomenon and not solely a problem because the worst offenders are high employment conglomerates that have the most money to grease the union bosses like Kroger.

Most trade unions are still pretty good, but anything revolving around consumer goods is fucked beyond belief by corporate capture of unions. Mega stores and consolidated brands were a mistake, they are too big for labor to do jack shit about.

but who has the power in that relationship? the disposable employee being treated like trash and being made to bend over backwards or the rich boss that could easily get someone else to do the job?

digital media is free

I was being sarcastic anyway
Marketing has gotten ridiculous and it'll keep getting worse because when everyone else keeps getting bigger bullhorns, the only way to be heard is to go even bigger

>most companies employ psychologists and economists, to find the ways humans tick and use it
guess mobile games are the peak of gaming

Have fun not getting my money until your overpriced 30 Second dopamine loop fueled fart goes on sale for 20 bucks
I'm not a day one slave

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WRONG

>Is the cost of games increasing or is it marketing?
no, the costs of games are very much increasing as hardware becomes more complex and powerful. GTA IV cost $265 million to make.

lol maybe if you want to make some shitty jumping puzzle game in your basement with unity.

Creating unique assets & game mechanics at a professional level costs a lot of fucking money and time. and there are A LOT of unique high quality assets in newer releases.

DOOM was made by 7 people. The 2016 DOOM took around 200 people & several years to make.

.
Normies care.
Not enough to buy a PC but they care

Right so in other words they'd already need to be as fringe and gung ho about it in order for the changes to do nothing. Do you hear how fucking stupid you sound?

Games are a lot cheaper in my country now (New Zealand). I remember having to save up for fucking months as a kid doing paper runs to buy FFVIII for $130

You had a sane argument with union bloat and the conflict of interest presented by corruption and power, then you went full insane with the /pol/ bullshit.

pic is not mine but definitely a good start to look forward to :)

I explained how a salary is negotiated as part of the hiring process. You never asked a question, you just proposed a hypothetical situation where there is absolutely no employer out there who would value the skill and experience. In that situation, you change fields to locate someone who does value you or find a way to work for yourself.

So there's like zero investors left for indies because all the big companies slurp them up, right. I mean if you can't pull foreign giants like TenCent why even bother making a game at all.

I'm still trying to figure out why non-Americans are so obsessed with America while knowing almost nothing about it.

How much does an ubisoft game with everything cost, you underage corporate asslicker?

LITERALLY decades of propaganda
Americans have been trained to associate ANYTHING that doesn't make you a slave to corporations communism.

He's right, we all know he's right and we all know you're a resetera tranny who needs to go back to their discord and consider suicide.

>making an observation is being obsessed

In the situation where a union already exists in a field, you are forced to join the union to get into the field at all and are beholden to any agreements they've already made.

yeah, it's gonna cost me way more to pirate everything now.

>no employer out there who would value the skill and experience
there isn't if devs are thinking about unionizing

Why do you think Blizzard is going to mobile with Diablo?

What an illuminating argument.

rather than asserting how right you are could you actually make a post explaining yourself?

ya know i feel kinda bad about the growing corporate dystopia in america but then i read these threads and see that most of them welcome it open arms and reject any alternative with an almost religious fervor, and i feel a bit better about it. they really just seem to deserve it. i just hope the same culture never spreads to where i live

With the rampant, unrestrained, Capitalism I am sure they'll just get just what they want and somehow manage to get everyone to simple spend more.
That said, the movie industry is unionized and movie tickets are like $10-$15~ and not $100. The budgets for movies are just as large if not greater than that of videogames. Funny that.
It's almost as if the richest industry in the history of mankind doesn't actually need to sell their games for $60 or higher just in order to survive.

No one is making an observation, they're just memeing.

There's no point debating with the enemy, get out.

That's a bullshit assertion.

>nobody joins a union to make less money stupid.
No they join unions because they are tricked into thinking it is a good idea by unethical idiots.

>but who has the power in that relationship?
In your McDonalds job the employer has all the power, get a skilled job with a smaller labour pool and you will see just how much power an employee can have. I've threatened to leave my job 3 times because my boss was demanding I perform duties outside of my contract, and he backed down every time because there's noone who can easily take my job. It's not my fault if you've taken up a job where you're easily replaceable. And don't even pretend you have a great job where you are irreplaceable because if you did you'd know this already and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Now go back to work and try your absolute hardest to actually get most of the burger in the box this time.

good luck making nothing but enemies then

Yeah, it takes a bit of fight but you keep human dignity. On the other hand, you have americans.

It's okay they know how to code.

Actually that's your specialty
But go ahead and rationalize it in ways that caress your ego

I work for a teachers union in Oregon and they were caught protecting a pedophile for the past thirty years.
There are valid reasons to dislike unions.

Lol - I'm on PC. I'll go back to pirating.

As return diminishes, and the leaps in graphical fidelity decrease from console to console, they'll stop caring.

yeah like unions are the only institutions that protect pedophiles

What are you talking about? I downloaded it from torrents and it was free, like every non-online game ever.

youre speaking nothing but paranoid nonsense, you may be schizophrenic.

Yeah sure, and sunshine and rainbows are gonna shoot out of my ass and I will sell a JavaScript game to the biggest software developer in the world for billions just by "working hard" and "proving them wrong"

Get the fuck out of here you literal life cuck, shit doesn't work that way, for every lucky fuck that manages to fail upward there are hundreds that die or settle for a job at cinnabon.

There's no such thing as working hard or earning your dreams, there is no such unlimited commodity as to provide every hard working sincere person with the life they desire. Hiding behind an ideal such of that only continues and advances the forces that wish to trick you into parting with your time to benefit them more than yourself.

Life is a meager existence unless it already isn't, dreams are what companies feed you to leach off what little you have in life to give, all chasing a dream of developing games will do is drive you to poverty at worst and mind melting slave labor at best.

>ala cart

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wtf i love unions now

Has anyone in this thread ever even been in a union before?
Many unions have done great things, but they're mostly bureaucratic hellholes that care about their members about as much as their employer does. That is to say, not very much at all.

All institutions protect pedos, including institutions expressly designed to protect kids
Therefore we should want fewer institutions, not more :^)

Listen here you little shit, you got btfo because you didn't even understand how amendments work or that if a system is in place and the state can prove its equivalent or better they don't have to do a damn thing. Go back to fucking school and learn how this shit works before shitting yourself and running that cock holster of yours about "da goberment" because its fucks like you that make it impossible to get shit changed because you're associated with actual good causes.

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No, it's a euro circlejerk thread over how backwards America is.
Can't wait till Article 11/13 forces them off the internet.

That’s true but that “45 hour” rule is basically just “you can only give someone that much overtime”. People take overtime, usually unpaid on “their own volition”. They aren’t clocked in or anything, so they TECHNICALLY aren’t working, so it’s why they can do shit like that.
Source: actually worked in Japan

Okay, working for yourself isn't your style? I already have an option ready for you!

Get a job in a different field.

Good luck in your endeavors, you'll need it

better than asking/talking to my employer alone

Yes, and we should criticize those other organizations too.

>Collectivising that is responsible for literally everything humanity has ever accomplished is bad because some fucks that aren't held to account for their shit go unpunished

Protip the solution is actually doing something about it instead of kicking the dirt and giving up like a bitch.

you have multiple criticisms of unions in this thread and you pick the stupidest one

Not necessarily.

you're responding to me as though you know exactly who i am and what i believe but all you're doing is applying a strawman onto me because for some reason you don't want to defend your beliefs with anything other than hostility

You have those basic employee rights today because people formed trade unions throughout the Industrial Revolution and Victorian era despite it being illegal to do so.

>Almost no games do this
Every major release barring singular exceptions like Red Dead which, OOPSIE Daisy has micros

There is no big release without season pass or loot boxes or cosmetic dlc or some combination there of

>everything humanity has ever accomplished
Spooks?

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i work for a plumber's union in texas, we're better trained than open shop guys because our union requires and provides it.
there are also reasons to like unions.

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Nobody is stopping you from unionizing bro, just go for it. Do you need Yea Forums to give you a pep talk or something?

A dev team agree on a contractual salary pay to work on a project with their publisher employer.

Who are you arguing with? It can't be me because I never said anything about "kicking dirt and giving up like a bitch."

Let me guess: the half that wants to unionize have absolutely no direct involvement in game development, they just work at companies that make games, so they refer to themselves as "game developers".

Let the programmers and artists unionise.

This might only be true if you exclusively play indie or obscure shit. The only exception I can think of is God of War, that one was $60 with no dlc, season pass or microtransations, but true for literally everything else.

will this work when indie games can compete?

you know a vpn only costs around 15 burgers?

I'm sorry you don't have anything meaningful to post in the thread

That's going a bit far. I don't think that working hard or earning your dreams isn't possible. There are some people who that happens to. But there are also a lot of unlucky people in life as well. If everyone worked as hard as they can (and not everyone does work as hard as they physically can, though that may not be down entirely to choice) there would still be failures. Not everyone can win. And conversely, there are of course a ton of people who don't work their hardest (or hard at all) and still get lucky and succeed. I highly doubt everyone in the top 1% is there solely through their own efforts.
Like everything there isn't an absolute. But there are margins, and acceptable losses. Are unions great for everyone? No. There are for sure some people who lose out because of them, and there are flaws. But I do think unions help more people than they hinder, if they're run properly.

>unionize
>Animations made in korea
>Code in india
ea already outsources stuff street fighter v did too
Unions are cancer
>WE COULD NEGOTIATE AND USE THE FREE MARKET TO OUR ADVANTAGE
>NO LETS DO NOTHING AND THREATEN TO QUIT

>Game development has infamously poor working conditions.
We see this all the time. The latest controversy was Rockstar's 100-hour work weeks.
>how low is low wages?
Low wages in comparison to other software development that requires the same level of skill, education and work experience.
>how much overtime ?
venturebeat.com/2017/02/28/76-of-game-developers-work-crunch-time-without-paid-overtime/
>exploit
>What does this mean?
Read the whole sentence.

Customers don't boycott lazy games now why would they do so later?

wicked burn.

And he's going to lose them once UK leaves the EU and the Tories tear up the working directives.

>game devs RISE UP
lmaooa

He literally runs the fucking company and makes the shareholders hundreds of millions or billions YOU STUPID COMMIE YOUVE LITERALLY GON ON ABOUT HOW NO ONE SHOULD BE PAYED MILLIONS THE COMPANY CAN PAY HIM WHAT THEY WANT

>immigration in italy started a few decades ago
retard

because advertisement tells them to boycott socialist games. or PSAs. you know it.

>WE COULD NEGOTIATE
what do you think unions do

Eh, I don't buy new games anyways

>because advertisement tells them to boycott socialist games.
Oh boy.

Not that user, but he's probably aware of that. He did mention "threaten to quit" in allcaps.
Don't pretend unions have any bargaining power other than strikes.

>if they're run properly.
Congratulations, you've now honed in on why people hate unions.

>Code in india
>unironically suggesting Pajeet coding

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Union's are essentially trading in you individual choice to be part of a collective. The employee collective can oppose the employer in ways you can't on your own, but as a member of the collective, you have to go along with what the union wants or you lose your place in the union, your job, and the ability to work in any place that has members of the same union. As soon as the things the union organized to stop originally, stop, the union can start becoming as bad as the employer it organized to stop. Unions are good still, but like all things they're only as good as the people in them and unionized game devs would rip themselves apart in 4 years from ideological disagreements. Teachers unions barely function for the same reason

Being replaced is something that is always possible, if the opportunity arises you will be cast aside, there is no intrinsic value to you or your skills that could not be replaced.

You are nothing more than the tasks you do for your employer, and you will never be the only one able to perform them. Enjoy getting paid your entry wage again when your "Job security" nets you a spot in the unemployment line.

Also
>boss tried to get me to do something not in my job description and I can tell him no that means my job is safe!

Fucking lmao

In this case? They would do absolutely nothing, because no game development company will ever be hurt by unionized community managers and social media researchers going on strike. I'm all for unions, as long as they separate artists and programmers from the dead weight.

>half the country's coders become unemployed as we replace them with pajeets
oh no

They're already over 100 dollars, all the content is locked behind additional payments.

i think this is how that would go

>EA decides to forgo the 2-3% increase in the cost of development that would allow for working conditions, and instead outsources its game
>code gets made in india, is spaghettified mess that can't be iterated on in the future because indian coders are notoriously awful
>animations get made in korea and there is shit communication between the indian and korean teams because of language barrier, cultural differences and other reasons
>game design is made in america or something since that's the only thing you can't really outsource, things dictated by the design team never get implemented properly because of the disjointed and fragmented dev team
>game gets put out, EA saves a bit of money on dev costs, and the game turns out to be a massive disaster that no one wants to play in an oversaturated market and it poisons their brand even further

outsourcing only goes so far, and is not really applicable in an entertainment industry like video games. how would outsourcing TV shows go, what do you think? are the bollywood guys gonna do a good job?

Capitalism hasn't failed, but it's been compromised by predators.

Sensible post. I endorse.

>thinks nips aren't serious about laws

...

Isn't predatory behavior the best way to be a capitalist though?

So how long is it going to take this shit to kill the industry? We're way overdue.

This is true. The workforce is too disparate for everyone to unionize together. It needs to be the people literally working in the same field or it won't work.

It'll never die. Gaming is on par with other entertainment industries now, it can't die.

Game industry is doing great
Whats the bump limit on Yea Forums?

>Organization is bad
>This must mean all organization bad
>No other solution than to get rid of organization!

Sounds like giving up like a bitch instead of doing something about it to me, but do go on about how it's somehow the nature of it and not the fault of bad actors with names and faces.

well yeah I would love to see AAA ceos make, test, and advertise their own games on their own and/or tank their brand by farming it out.

Yes, which is why their at the top of our modern day highly unregulated capitalism, which are they destabilizing further from the inside. However, this will eventually lead to the ruin of multiple countries and the overall global economy. Eventually, things will break down to such an extent that mass violence will break out.

Not necessarily. That's just the meme you've been fed.

Nobody is stupid enough to actually do that. As retarded as Corbyn and company are, any attempt to remove worker's rights will be a 100% guaranteed Labour victory at the next election and probably a couple more after that. The Lib Dems never recovered after they said they would stop any rise in university tuition fees and then didn't; how exactly do you think people would react to the Conservatives doing something a hundred times worse?

cant kill the indie industry, only the over bloated AAA companies

>test, and advertise their own games
You do realize that there's an entire industry built on outsourced testing and advertising, right?
>Make
Based retard can't into reading comprehension.

This is how it's already done but instead of indie it's easter europe and instead of korea it's taiwan.

Is this a thread where we complain about how bad we have it? Can I play?

If you all vote for Bernie you can feel they burn like us in western Europe having 70% taxation.

You'd have thought dismantling the NHS would do that. All that needs to be done is spin it well enough, paint it as "transforming Britain's economy so it can remain competitive against the EU", and find something else for people to concentrate on. I mean, most employees in the USA have way less job security than the UK: do you think it would be impossible to get to that point?

with what game has that been successful with

Fucking idiot

>You do realize that there's an entire industry built on outsourced testing and advertising, right?
yeah and look how that's turning out. Isn't this why AAA games are garbage? Nothing I said isn't a lie. Its happening right now and you are saying that is ok as long as some rich fuck gets his money

only if you're a dumb fuck working at some factory for minimum wage.

>understanding the concept of a marginal tax rate
wut r u a caw-me?

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Nobody working in a factory is making minimum wage.

The most successful only are relevant for a few generations while the millions others live shitty boring menial lives and are forgotten. There are hundreds of burger places and thousands of stores yo stock, every single job has to be done, that is the reality of life, that is the future of literally almost every body. It's easier to be happy accepting that fact and carving out what little experience you can have for yourself in the one trip through life you get than lying to yourself like you are any more special than everybody else, worth in life is only internal, and only will ever be, as we are inherently alone.

Don't do shit because you think it has any reward at the end of it, do shit because you feel it is worth doing for you. Its the only thing that will ever be worth a damn, and you only have 80 years or so to do what you feel is important, before it is all forgotten.

The reality is that you will need to do this to be happy regardless of how little or how much your labor facilitates you to be able too, and little is what almost everyone will have to do so with.

Once every tranny in "game dev" starves to death or self immolates and the women are all chased back into the kitchen, we can talk about unionizing.

Video game budgets have skyrocketed so that middlemen can net a higher profit, due to the fact that they get a percentage. It's the same deal with the film industry.

based

what about gay dudes

He doesn't deserve it for what he subjects others too to earn it, and no justification will ever change that, regardless if the system rewards him or others.

they won't exist

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Marginal tax rate you absolute imbecile.

what did u mean by this

It would be more than 100 dollars, most games nowadays already cost more than that (Base game 60 dollars + dlc + season pass + microtransactions + loot boxes)

>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE other people exist.

Remember it’s the liberals who need safe spaces.

You are completely clueless about the topic. Of course large companies like Ubisoft don't outsource advertising and testing, it's all done in-house. Currently it'd make absolutely zero financial sense for them to pay a contractor extra money, for something they have created entire departments for.
AAA games aren't bad because of poor QA or poor marketing, they're bad because they're safely regurgitated formulas with little to no innovation. The quality of AAA games is a separate issue that has little to do with the topic at hand, however, unions certainly have been known to substantially decrease employee work performance, so it's reasonable to assume that they'd impact the end quality of games these companies produce.

Feel that tranny? It's the jaws of death closing around your neck.

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Kind of a complex issue. I don't think they should straight up unionize, but I DO think they should be better protected against the failures of marketing teams. It's not fair to be given a 20 mill budget that the can efficiently use and stretch it as far as it can go to make a product that decent to good quality with minimal flaws, only to get punished because the marketing budget was 3x that amount and the game failed to reclaim 100% of the amount spent.

Unions exist so the government doesn't dictate contracts between employer and employees as a 3rd party. They offer a lot of freedom and benefits without having to give the government more control over your life.

>10million to hit 70%

Yes I’m sure every burger on Yea Forums will feel this.

>wanting games made by soulless chinks

>they're bad because they're safely regurgitated formulas with little to no innovation
why are you defending an industry that allows this kind of behavior and only rewards the few who barely do anything in its development?

I was a communist until the first time I had to pay taxes.

Jesus fuck you are thick.

>without having to give the government more control over your life
>At least it's not the government fucking me over

games already cost 100 dollars here in Ontario Canada

Lol wut. You pay taxes under a capitalist system too

I see you have no retort.

No one cares about Canada.

In a communist system you wouldn't pay taxes because you wouldn't have an income.

Yea Forums is a north american board be nice please

This is dumb. Any goverment no matter the system is going to take something in the form of taxes. The only system without taxes are anarcist.

yes but 35% and not 100%