Was it really THAT bad?

>Fast crazy
Remember when everyone was a speedrunner and ran past every monster to the end of memorized levels back in the 90s ?

Compared to the grander scheme of survival horrors, it was great.

Compared to Doom it was a generic piece of shit. Doom was a game that to this day has an extremely unique gameplay style with its mazelike, fast-paced free-for-all massacre while Doom 3 was just some lights off hide and seek with monsters that were waaay too hard to kill to call themselves Doom enemies, full of generic jumpscares and survival horror tropes.

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Technologically and artistically it's superb
Mechanically it's mediocre to poor
The bossfights were particularly egregious

I always wondered why people always talked about doom being a fast game back when I started coming to this site. I was, and still am, pretty slow playing Doom. Seeing people clear the levels so fast is kind of impressive but I don't really like it.

>hard to kill

unfortunately for my playthrough, I discovered like 2 hours in that the AI of every enemy in this game is broken by doorframes. You can get fucking anything stuck on the other side of a door, especially imps

I still play Quake 1, I was just playing new Quake 1.5 mod earlier. Just a fun mindless mod with a bunch of things and gore in it. But I've never once gone back to play Doom 3 after the first playthrough on release

No, scratch that. I did go back to play it one time. I remember that I quit like 40 minutes through the laborious, neverending introduction part.

no it was great and better than Half-Life 2. games journos were craving cinematic story shit to push the"games as art" meme and hl2 gave them what they wanted. doom 3 is awesome.

All depends how you play. Regularly I am a bit more methodical, but when I did pistol starts through Ultimate it was fast paced as you blitz through the levels looking for weapons or a zerk pack so you can swing the tides your way.

None-the-less map packs like Plutonia are pretty intense.

Huh yeah I'd agree with that. Thoughts on Q4?

It was fun and forgettable but I thought that way about Quake 2 as well. I think it got a lot of shit for not living up to id's legendary pedigree not because it was really a bad game
Enjoying replaying Doom 3 in VR lately.

BOOMER SQUAD!!1 HELL YEAH MY NIGGER THESE FUCKIN BITCHES SHOULD START TAKING NOTES

>I think it got a lot of shit for not living up to id's legendary pedigree not because it was really a bad game

well everything they ever made was legendary until doom3 when it was like uhhh and then they just gave a random studio the quake name to shit out a game with enemies who hide behind cover. in fucking quake.

I thought it was much more solid mechanically, but I just like Raven, I guess.

Q2 is contentious at best due to having slow and dumb enemies. Also Raven is not a "random studio".

I thought Quake 2 had a lot of weird design decisions back then, like machine gun recoil and mission objectives, backtracking etc. So Q4 "getting with the times" didn't surprise me too much. Still felt pretty solid but then I also liked Unreal 2 so I might just have shit taste :^)

>neverending introduction part
So, you're 15 and have adhd. It's like 5 minutes, you run to the commander, listen for 30 seconds, run to the elevator, run down the stairs and that's that.

I enjoyed U2 as well. Shit taste bros ww@?

Mediocre shooter, laughable horror game.
Couldn't make myself finish it though I tried

it was so bad that it made people think nuDOOM is good

I played it when I was like 10yo and retarded so it was like a survival horror game to me
Nowadays I just take my time because I'm a relaxed boomer who likes to smell the roses.

Godawful survival horror game that should have never been called Doom.

The only good Doom games are the old Doom games. Fuck 3 and fuck nuDoom. Neither have any idea what made original Doom fun and engaging.

they are sure as fuck a random studio compared to golden age id. q2's enemies are not any slower or dumber than q1s...its just that they are basically exactly the same AI as q1

thats weird, i also thought those exact same things that you mentioned were weird and out of place

............I also liked Unreal 2

Its one of the best games of all time. It captured the feel of a good scifi horror movie perfectly.
Also actually dark, not for pussies!

>generic piece of shit
Can you even explain what that means? There aren't really that weren't really that many horror-fps hybrids.

NuDoom is just Doom 1 and 2 but with nowadays graphics, you faggots are just reaching to find anything to dislike about it, and Eternal is looking like it's gonna be the best Doom we're ever going to get.

Doom 3 was great, but it's not extremely dated because of the small cramped spaces. It's a very claustrophobic game.
Most bad things anyone can say about the game were caused by ID just trying to make the game run smoothly on the average computer of the time.

Grab any generic survival horror where it's dark all the time and there's a million jumpscared and give it a first-person perspective. Still, it had the advent of having decent aiming and shooting mechanics unlike every other survival horror of its time.

nothing like doom 3 existed before it you twit

rofl nigga

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This thread is filled with 30 year olds.

It was a great game. It really only received hate for not being Doom/ Doom2/ Hexen/ Quake with updated graphics.

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>system shock like doom 3
May as well say marathon is like doom 3

Most of the hate was actually from proto-plebbitors that hated the pitch black darkness and flashlight. Because it was too scawwy.

your mom is like doom 3

>slow paced horror fps in tight corridors with using computers and logs and shit

its the same thing nigga.

no it isnt you dumbass nigger

>too scawwy
more like its too CRAAPPY. If i wanted a game to be pitch black, id just play with sunglasses on.

>Because it was too scawwy.
It was sort of spooky but it was mostly irritating especially since it obscured the nice graphics
Same reason I hated the corpses dissolving

>horrifying spider things in Doom 3 with upside down heads are called "Trites"
>in Rage, the healing bots applied to injuries look like little spider virus things and they're called nanotrites

Nobody noticed/appreciated this.

>they are sure as fuck a random studio compared to golden age id
They absolutely are not.
>q2's enemies are not any slower or dumber than q1s
They are and they are less threatening as well. Like, compare Ogre (god I hate Ogres) to Gunner. Both will shoot grenades at you, but the latter has a rather long animation before that. Berserkers are a joke compared to Fiends because they can't lunge. Also I'm thinking about it now and I feel like Q2 maps were way more open, giving you too much space to outrun anything.

daww does the darkness scare you.
you need perpetual brightness in your game? poor widdle reditor.

not at all, it's a decent game and had really cool lighting and shadow effects for the time it was released. I think they even invented a new shadowing technique that is still used today just for this game. not a masterpiece, but far from being a bad game.

Not just making it up. Multiple reviews at the time attacked the games darkness as being too scary.
Thats why so many games later on had no real darkness and made flashlights redundant.

just mediocre

Don't use the n word on 4channel

berserkers don't compare to fiends, Mutants do. Mutants were used in like 2 levels in the game and are terrifying, worse than fiends. not my fault they used them wrong

enemies arent "less threatening" they just arent meant to run up to you due to the variety of late game city type levels where a lot of enemies are simultaneously shooting blaster weapons at you from different angles. this is also why the maps are more open

i like q2...its no q1 though. and it sucks they didnt use the mutant. nobody even remembers it.

nigger

The add-on campaign felt a lot more like the original Doom. You could tell they knew they strayed too far.

>Multiple reviews at the time attacked the games darkness as being too scary.

No they didn't. Reviews focused on the fact that having to bring down your weapon to bring up the flashlight was forced and stupid. It was a famous sentiment shared among reviewers that somehow, there is no duct tape on the space station with which to affix the flashlight to his fucking gun.

roleplaying as tewi doesnt prove your point. it just makes you look like a gay discord trannie

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geek.com/games/john-carmack-to-rewrite-doom-3-shadow-volume-code-to-avoid-lawsuit-1442325/

based carmack

Yes they did. The complaints were about the darkness.
Its a classic example of early stupidity in the reviewing community. It forced games to have no darkness as an industry trend because a bunch of onions boys couldnt handle the dark.

So you're saying it's not an irritating mechanic or something?
Ravenholm in HL2 was like a few months later, made copious use of a flashlight that would run out of battery and was pretty well regarded to put it lightly. I think HL2 is overrated but that segment was scarier than the entirerty of Doom 3 and didn't try to gimp you.

I actually initially compared Fiends to Parasites... Which are fucking terrifying but also underused as well.

What I'm saying about enemies being less threatening is that a lot of them have a rather lengthy animation before attacking, so you can abuse corners to pretty much shit on them. Combine that with encounter design and yeah... Q2 is really damn easy on Nightmare (but Ground Zero is very much not).

So I feel like Q2 is a mediocre game with some really weird design decisions, but I also enjoy it. The guns feel good.

>energy cell fetching
>grav gun
>original doom

>geek.com/games/john-carmack-to-rewrite-doom-3-shadow-volume-code-to-avoid-lawsuit-1442325/
>based carmack
youtube.com/watch?v=AGK1dr-Ql0w

>Yes they did. The complaints were about the darkness.

No, the complaints were about the darkness forcing the flashlight bullshit specifically, needlessly slowing down the game. You are excepting the actual point of the criticism you are trying to take the piss out of.

Its only irriating to dumbasses. The duct tape idea is so dumb. Duct tape flash lights to all your guns?

quake2 has like 30 enemies and you barely see some of them

>medics
>mutants
>sharks

Ravenholm is a physics playground and is pretty much explicitly designed to be that.

The way the encounters are set up, yes it is.

No the complaints were about the darkness. If it was too much for you to handle with a flashlight you are literally low iq.
You dont even need the flashlight most of the time.

I liked it at launch because it was a PC graphics benchmark and the atmosphere was kind of unique. Part of the fun was getting scared shitless on your first playthrough and the game was decently long.

It aged like ass though.

(OP)
Bad? No, it was great. Better than Doom 2 even in some regards.

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>sharks
I played through Q2 like 3 times and I had to google that. Yeah.

There's like ONE room in the game where you NEED flashlight, and here's that.

You can actually fire a lot of guns while holding a flashlight, it's certainly better than putting the flashlight away and using the muzzle flash as a light. Not to mention the high tech military flashlight solutions that would exist then because they're common a decade ago IRL. But it's a moot point because it was a contrived mechanic that irritated people and apparently you're the only one who liked it because you're really macho or something.

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I remember being hype for it before launch and completely disappointed when playing the demo.

The Xbox port coop campaign was pretty fun though, it basically threads through all the big fights and skips the goofy jumpscare shit.

I think this is the biggest factor in deciding whether you liked D44M or not
either you speedran through the originals, and hated D44M
or you killed everything you saw, and enjoyed D44M

duct taping flashlights to your gun is dumb, yes

slightly dumber is a mars colony filled with dark hallways and an active marine presence, and apparently a light bulb has never gone out and led someone to think 'maybe i should strap a flashlight to my tools to keep my hands free'

but maybe i'm just a brainlet.

Exactly you dont even need it. Dark games are hard for people to play who have bad spatial awareness visual iq.
So what people bitching about the dark were saying is their brains were functionally retarded.
The enemies even project light for you to see.
I can only imagine how retards were trying to play this game
>in a dark corridor omg theres an imp
>ill just pull out my flashlight to see him
>fuck i need my gun
>fuck i need my flash light.

Yeah its basically a case future games being dumbed down because some tards couldnt see in the dark.

yes. Played it for the first time last week. There's no single redeeming quality, everything is either mediocre or bad.
People who think it's a good game, played it as kids.

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Pity the BFG didn't fix it, but I think it came down to the core stuff like the gameplay mechanics being way too clunky and limited along with the level designs being way too cramped at times and etc. You could certainly build a game on idTech 4 and have it still last today, but Doom 3 was not that game. Same goes for Quake 4 for that matter...

Its dark because the power got cut you absolute low iq nigger.
Thats what the flashlight is for.
It fucking shows you that in the game that the demonic invasion killed the lights.

So you're saying it was an entirely unnecessary mechanic...so why are you even defending it then? This hard too.
Could it be that it actually did scare you and that's why you're projecting this much? It's okay to admit it user.

>mechanic that you find hard
>unecessary
You dont even need the flashlight most of the time. Probably why its a minor part of the game. You arent supposed to have the fucking flashlight out all the time.

The expansion pack was great fun
Resurrection of Evil I think it were called

Yeah most of the areas are lit just fine, just wondering why you're chimping out over it when it's so minor.

D3 and Q4 are both pretty fun. They have a good horror, action and jump scare feeling not found in many games now.

>That's what the flashlight is for
>the flashlight is for seeing in the dark

oh, foolish me, I forgot what flashlights were for

it's a weird hill to die on, user.

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It's weird to me that people bitch about flashlight so damn much when it's such a minor part of the game. Most rooms have enough light. Enemies light shit up. Just shoot the glowing eyes?

If I had to say the worst thing about Doom3 I'd say encounter design. Imps imps imps imps imps imps imps. That's the whole game until Hell. Oh yeah, occasionally you get wraiths (which are useless) and maggots (mostly useless). Imps are good, well-animated, well-designed, but there's too damn much of them.

Also incoming unpopular opinion: Hell level sucks.

>the game with light sources everywhere to see most of the time.
You are just shit at playing games.

I remember on release a comment on gamefaqs calling the Doom 3 hell level "a Simpsons style depiction of hell"

Yes, a flashlight. Though if you are a combat unit why would they have it so your hands are tied while being able to see what you shoot at instead of having some sort of modification in which you can both see and shoot at once rather than one or the other?

because its stupid and featured often enough that people remember it
Not like the game has that many mechanics either way, it was a bog standard shooter with too many audio logs and a stupid flashlight mechanic that became annoying during those parts of the game where it deliberately plunged you into pitch darkness
well eitherway I'm glad it didn't catch on, flashlight-centric shooters just aren't really that interesting a concept

I totally agree the darkness was an atmospheric feature of the game.
It was fun as fuck playing it in the middle of the night in darkness.
Never had any issue with switching to the flashlight. Its mostly required during non-combat portions of the game.

>Same goes for Quake 4 for that matter...
I wouldn't go that far. Q4 was using same formula, but id clearly listened to complains. Combat feels much faster, gunplay feels tight, there's still that stupid idea of no gunlights, but maps themself have tons of light sources, so they're not really that dark. Vehicle sections are suprisingly tolerable. Turret sections are shit, though.
Rocket Lancher and Plasma/Hyperblaster are best one in both franchises.

It really isnt its a case of people running with a consensus because they are brainlets. Call it an early meme, Its a shit meme.
Since it never was actually an issue.

Because the marine isnt a baby man he goes to the toilet in the night with no lights on. Like a real man.

Ah, well hopefully I can be a free independent thinker and accomplished flashlight wrangler and genius like you someday user. A shame the flashlight-shooter genre was murdered in its infancy it was truly the thinking man's shooter.

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>The duct tape idea is so dumb
duct taping weapons and shit together, and going Rambo, has been around since Aliens

>Duct tape flash lights to all your guns?
slightly more reasonable than carrying 10 guns. So why not?

It's especially weird since not only did originals have some great fleshy and bizarre stuff in Hell (remember that moving wall texture made of grinning and screaming faces?), but D3 itself had some rooms overgrown with flesh. And then you reach Hell and it's fire, brimstone, lava, scorched bricks. Eeeh. I enjoyed the post-Hell levels more, where you see Hell "dimension" reshaping the facility.

Enemies are also more threatening, varied and aggressive. You have a good mix of all-out brutes like Berserker and later some smarter (well, relatively) ones.

He needs to identify people instead of just shooting them. I am assuming he is there for non-demon related things initially. It would look pretty unprofessional to open fire on someone because you mistook them for someone else.

Maybe they should've just removed the flashlight altogether, clearly it served no purpose

the pda probably caused you trouble too.
Gee its hard.
Life is hard. I feel you.

you have half a dozen guns. You,dont have time to duct tape a flashlight every time you switch.
everyones a demon. You cant go wrong shooting everything.

>he just realized he's been ranting at amused Anons about how they're bad at using flashlights for half an hour

>dark action game
>remove the useful tool
Gee you so smart smart redditor.

>there's still that stupid idea of no gunlights
Well akshully blaster and rifle both had flashlights. Rifle is also relevant through all game if you focus on headshots.

I'd say Q1 RL is still the best and I don't even like Q1 all that much... There's something about the sound.

reason why everyone point out flashlight mechanic is because they barely remember anything else. Rest of gamepay was forgettable, which is even worse than if it was just bad.

If you pull your flashlight out with a demon in your face you are bad at using flashlights. Period.

Most of the butthurt comes from people not being able to play it due to its system requirements.
It was supposed to work on Geforce 3 ti but it barely worked ok on Geforece Fx cards.

Ducttape mod that allows you to use the flashlight and a weapon was made immediately
Dynamic lights were amazing.

It's not useful, you just fire gun or use demon eyeballs to light your way just like epic manly man doom meme guy would do grrrrRRrr so angry XD

I remember the game devolving into
>turn around corner
>bam shotgun
>reload
>repeat
But i found that relaxing.

no, but It had nothing to do with Doom.

This.

In fairness imps and zombiemen is 90% of what you fought in Knee Deep

DOOM SPACE 3 is different from DOOM and DOOM 2, it's an ok game, but as a Doom game it's just not what I was hoping for.

But speaking of Dead Space, what if a marker showed up in hell?

Theres part in the game where you have to navigate the environment and use it. Thats pretty much what it was intended for.
Not combat.
So the monkeys saying "i see a demon I pull my flashlight out" are stupid.

what if you pull out your flashlight when you open the door get on the floor everybody do the dinosaur

Knee-Deep is 1/3 of the game, not 2/3. And, if I'm being really honest, I don't think Doom 1 set of monsters is "great". 2 - yes, absolutely, all you could want. 1 is limited.

100% correct. Played it in my early teens, was my first "scary" game. Loved turning out the lights, cranking the volume, & taking turns on levels with a friend. When you're 13, the jumpscares are actually fun.

Then I played the BFG edition in my mid 20's and it's like a shitty Universal Studios ride. You subconsciously know when the jumpscares are coming even if you haven't played the game in ages.

There are no mechanics, it's a corridor crawl with artificial difficulty spikes created by clogging the halls with enemies every once in a while.

One thing I will say is that the lore is pretty underrated. Almost nobody picked up the PDA's because they were useless and gave you shitty weapons locker codes, but Gamefaqs had a database of all PDA logs and there was a surprising amount of backstory material that's worth a read on it's own. They basically recycled the idea for the codex in nuDoom

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Why is the area dark? To be scary? Then why the flashlight? If any monsters pop out you just switch weapons.
They should've just gone hardcore and omitted the flashlight, now thats true fear. Fucking casuals.

If they just called it something else it would probably be a cult classic that Yea Forums would endlessly praise like Vtm:B, always complaining that there was never a DOOM 3: 2.

>Knee-Deep is 1/3 of the game
No it's 1/4

Maybe if Doom 3 had big titty goth girls yeah
It just wasn't that good dude, come on

Heretic really made for a better doom than eitehr doom or doom 2, desu

I liked the lore and story.
Speaking of i played an adventure game once that had a similar feel to it years before it
I could never find that game.
Saturn or satans rift.

why

Neither was Vtm:B, but it was pretty different from alot things at the time, and that's why it resonates.

Doom 3 is plenty fast if you’re not a fag whose afraid of jump scares. The hiding enemies and low light doesn’t slow you down in the least.

It is a praise worthy game. It started the whole cinematic shooter spinoff genre.

>It was supposed to work on Geforce 3 ti but it barely worked ok on Geforece Fx cards.

that's because the FX line were horrible. doom ran reasonably on a geforce 3

>enter the room
>wasshhh wasshhh
>imp spawns in front of you and another one spawns behind you
when it happens first 3 times, you smile and think "now that's cheap"
when it still happens after 2 hours, and in fact covers most fights to the point, you think "ffs really guys???"

most consistently good levels and monsters

VTMB is a roleplaying game in a rarely used setting, Doom 3 is a straight no frills shooter on a dark space installation (lol)
You're really scrabbling my man

Well if you talk about Ultimate Doom, yeah. I mean, from what I gather it was basically a free DLC for those who bought Doom before it?

I agree, actually. Based Raven.

What about Hexen?

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people would read entries more, if you could activate newest log with press of a button, like in Bioshock, instead of having to bring up PDA, removing yourself from gameplay

no thanks

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>noo the flashlight
>nooo not the pda too.

Doom 1 > Doom 2 > Doom The Movie featuring Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson > Doom 3

>seven portals
someone really thought making it a first hub was a good ida

Cool tech demo, forgettable game

Doom 3 > Doom 2 >Doom 2016 > Doom 1

?

Yeah it was RoE check it out guys it had a gravity gun like in Half Life 2

It was mediocre.

But people's standards for Doom games are astronomically high. Anything less than a classic is going to be seen as a disappointment.

>just Doom 1 and 2 but with nowadays graphics
If you're idea of DOOM comes from the meme comic "lol rip n tear your guts"

Now for people who are not baiting fags

Doom 1 > Eternal > NuDoom > 2 > 64 > 3

Good game
Bad Doom game

Yes, even Doom 2016 is better

No, the problem is that the levels are designed to be claustrophobic and horror-ish, scripted jump scare stuff and redesigned some weapons to suit that.
>It was a step back from Quake's gameplay.
>Mechanically it's mediocre to poor
It's identical to quake 3

Which was based on 1 and 2

Also love retards that don't see the connection between 1, 2 and Nu in its portrayal of the Doomguy as pure rage in human form

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The movement speed itself is slow as shit, that's what people mean by it being slow

>Doom 2016 is better
WRONG
>The movement speed itself is slow as shit
WRONG

The movement speed compared to both the originals and 2016 is undeniably slower

>It's identical to quake 3
you're either baiting or didn't play it

>Not playing with sunglasses on.

Dork detected.

>doom 3
>slow
Wrong
m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q28LoGU6l88

>12 enemies on screen max
>not nudoom

>everyone complaining it's not like Doom 1/2
Just play the mod
youtube.com/watch?v=1b4x9lpF8K4

the retarded thing is the sprint key which is "limited" but it's also redundant because you can fucking strafejump everywhere for free, do you slowfags just play it walking everywhere or something?
yes the movement mechanics are identical, scale is different though

Notice how the speedrunner doesnt use the flashlight like a pussy.
they need to keep pulling their di..flashlight out every time they see something scary.

Doom 3 real sin is having a God mode cheat but having pits where you could fall and there was no way to dying inside them once you were inmortal.

doom 2 you could get telefragged.

You mean the thing where you'd die if you get into a teleporter at the same time as someone else?

Yeah. The last bosses cubes kill you if they spawn a monster on you even in god mode.

>at the same time
it's if another actor is standing in the same spot as the teleporter exit
you can telefrag monsters in the singleplayer and they can telefrag you too

>yes the movement mechanics are identical
you mean, how char moves foward, left, right and backpedals? You're serious?

I don't recall floaty weapons, shaky screen and long reloads in Quake 3.

Anyone remember Last Man Standing mod?

That's cool

>you can telefrag monsters
Thinking back on it, it makes sense that this happens but I never thought it was possible before.

It's a good game with top tier atmosphere.
There are only two groups of people who hate it: doom purists, who are buttmad that this game is called Doom, and faggots that try to fit in and parrot the purists.

>I don't understand quake movement mechanics

it's pretty much the only way to get 100% kill in E4M2, since there's barely enough ammunition on map to take all Barons AND the Cyberdemon at end

explain then, because I have no clue what you're trying to say
Hopefully it's at least relevant.