Smash Ultimate

>launch Ike into the air
>Nair hits me while four meters underneath him before I can follow up
>get uaired while in hitstun
>die at 70%
cool tips kiddo

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>tfw Samus main
Fuck swords, only thing I can do is spam projectiles because all my aerials lose

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yea I think they have some of the worst neutral tools for dealing with gordo firstly, no disjointed fast buttons besides maybe upair.

stay strong friend, have a webm I've been looking for an excuse to post

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Lucina has virtually no weaknesses, your only real hope is to take advantage of the player's bad habits because the character itself is pretty much untouchable when played optimally.
Ike does nothing but nair, so you want a projectile character that shuts down his air space, alternately try to hit him in the tiny window where his sword is behind him or master parrying.

Swords are extremely retarded so don't be afraid to play extremely lame, fuck swords.

Well, no fucking shit. They have both projectiles and even bigger disjoints than swordies. And even then they still get fucked because for every whip or cross they throw Lucina will have gotten in your face three times over because of how fucking good their rushdown game is.

>Lucina jumps
>Belmont can do literally nothing

good tier

I feel your pain
>Have slow ass aerials that lose to the fast disjointed aerials with low end-lag.
>Tilts typically lose to the disjoints, their swords smacking my head even if I angle F-tilt.
>Nair out of shield isn't fast enough to punish once they are already on top of me and spamming aerials.
>Swordies take it so personally when I use my crown and blunderbuss to zone them even though it's literally my only option in most cases.

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Use zair senpai

I will use your excuse to post a webm to post a webm of my own, then.

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I've always found FE characters to be annoying but I legit hate them in Ultimate. Unfun to fight against, minimal flaws, can shut down characters just by nairing because it works. Yes you can block and dodge but they feel so fucking safe on everything it doesn't matter. It's retarded and pisses me off. Doesn't help I main Ridley so anything I do leaves me open if they so much as have an ounce of knowledge on how to play.

I hate how much reach they have and how strong each hit is. Their swings have a hitbox that goes further than the goddamn swords length at times. Fuck I mad.

more webms

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Your Idea of a sword character is godawful and has only been true in one game

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Swords as they are now have no weaknesses and invalidate entire character archetypes. Every single sword user barring one or two characters is high to top tier and Lucina and Ike are some of the best characters in the game while also being the easiest to play. Swords need some kind of weakness.

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>First it was FOX ONLY FINAL DESTINATION
>Then it was META KNIGHT, AND SNAKE SUCKS TOO
>Then it was DIDDY KONG AND SHEIK ARE BROKEN NERF NERF NERF

>Now its SWORDIES SWORDIES SWORDIES
when will you fags ever learn to fucking adapt

YOU LITERALLY OUTRANGE THEM YOU FUCKING NIGGER JUST FUCKING LEARN TO PLAY THE GAME

Lucinas Weakness: Bad Frame data and predictable kills

Ike: literally learn to parry and you shut down most of his options

Not to mention most of if not all Sword characters have awful tilt options

>Bad Frame data
???????????????????????????????
Tell me what move of hers has bad frame data, she literally has the fastest Fsmash in the game.

>Tilt
>Implying any of them ever need to land.

>Not to mention most of if not all Sword characters have awful tilt options
I guess tilts that cover the entire body and have kill power are bad now

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Gotta appreciate the sideB attempt from Dorf.

Lucina and Marth should switch places. Marth used to always be top tier, but at least the player had to space and react accordingly because a sourspot and a tipper hit would lead to different situations for each move.

Making Lucina do 80% of tipper damage across the sword was a dumb idea. She's braindead and takes absolutely nothing past fundamentals to play well.

Marth is impossible to be bad, Vanilla 4 Marth was a mid to high tier at worst. Marth is still good, there's just no reason to play him when you can get all the spacing he provides while still being able to rush people down while using only 1/5th of the brainpower.

I've been shutting down Lucina hard with Ridley. I don't know why, but riddles is my go to pick when fighting swordies.

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Don't ever feel bad zoning out a swordie, just because their lame moves are in your face doesn't make them any better.

What options does Ridley have? Anyone with 2 neurons can jump over fireballs.

>Lucinas Weakness: Bad Frame data
Ex-fucking-cuse me? Bitch has frame date almost as good if not as good as your typical rushdown character. That shit is unexcusable when you have such a good disjoint.

I hate to be that guy but maybe you should just get better at the game. Sword characters aren't broken,you just suck.

>play DDD
>most of my disjoints outspace their swords
the only swordies that I have any trouble with are Shulk and Cloud since they can actually outrange me

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EITHER

That's what I'm saying, he's always been top tier due to his concept, but at least you could respect that there is SOME skill needed to play Marth. Lucina is so easy that every pro has a pocket Lucina because she takes nothing to play.

Hist tilts and aerials are pretty good and can match the swordies in range. Also his side b is an easy punishing tool when they start counter spamming.

They fucked her up by making her a Marth echo without his big glaring weakness. It'd be better if she was just a Daisy style echo in this game.

They're definitely not 'broken', but you can't deny that they are piss easy to play and be effective with. Playing a swordie well takes 1/10 the effort of some other characters.

They're super strong in this one, but they do have trouble approaching characters from above. Duck Hunt for one is a pain for sword characters because they don't have a projectile to deal with can at a safe distance and they don't want to go on platforms to get around it. Sure they can hit it back, but that leaves them open for other camping options like clay pigeon.

>Unexcusable
I didnt know you were a game designer.
Look buddy, you could never balance a cast of 70+ characters, to get as close as they did was a miracle in itself, but its an impossible task. Several thousand players know how to beat Lucina with their character, along with every other top tier. You would do the same if you could stop bitching for 2 seconds begging for nerfs because your shitty character has a bad matchup

Yes, and?
Im honestly asking here, do you believe every character should take the same amount of skill to play?
No that's fucking dumb, you moron. Every fighting game has easy characters along with characters that are hard to learn and master, that is literally a given in any fighting game.

That's true, I'm just venting, they're just boring to fight.

The problem isn't that they're easy to play, the problem is that they're both easy to play and some of the best characters in the game. Lucina is top 3 and Ike has the most results out of anyone else so far.
There are so many people using swordies that if your character loses to them they're pretty much worthless.

Moves that launch at low angles fuck up Chrom's day.

>I didnt know you were a game designer
And I don't need to be a game designer to know that a disjoint character with excellent frame data is absolute cancer to fight.

Easy to play Characters have always been top tier because they trade tools for fundementals, what dont you get about this?

Anyone still complaining about swordies are punkass little bitches.

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I wouldn't call the Melee top tiers 'easy to play'. Outside DLC, most of the Smash 4 top tiers weren't totally braindead either.

yeah but why did they nerf duck hunt?

Daily reminder that this is objectively the ideal 3rd Party representation & only contrarions would disagree.

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>Melee Fox
>Easy to play
user, I...

I only play Duckhunt as a counter pick for faggot heavies but he seems pretty damn good in Ult.

Daily reminder that fuck third parties and fuck you.

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If that were true, then why is K. Rool bottom five?

Wow wavedash out of shine and 3 frame short hops are so hard

Blow off to another thread you dumb rosterfag. We're talking about the game here.

But this is wrong. Kirby is easy to play, he was designed for beginners, and he's garbage. Pit is easy to play, his moveset is very standard, and he's like a mid to low tier.
Ike and Lucina are top tier because they're extremely safe and take no skill to use, on top of their disjoints giving them a huge advantage over brawler characters while being fast enough to harass slower zoner characters. They aren't top tier because they're easy, they're top tier because they're both easy and have multiple advantages over other characters in either range or frame data.

oh no. he's pretty fucking awful. coming from a 100% duck hunt main. then to make him even worse? yet don't touch the other faggots? seems like a bitch move.

You don't know shit. The sword characters don't us their slow moves except for ledge traps; their neutral consists of short hop nair/fair, dancing blade, and jab with just a smidge of dash grab and random forward smash thrown in. I would say their weakness k
Is that they don't get a whole lot off of a grab until they get you to up throw kill% and they're in trouble if you hit them up because they don't have quick downwards hitboxes.

I see him relatively often in pools, I thought he got stealth buffed like Pac and Wii Fit did. His ability to infinite heavies out of Frisbee is pretty cool too
Don't pretend you played Xenosaga

...

they nerfed the frisbee to hell in the last patch.

Nobody plays Xenosaga since it's a linear movie, however i genuinely enjoyed Episode 1 even though E2 & E3 were terrible

As the person who posted that WEBM, that Chrom was hot fucking garbage. If he rushed me down properly I would have lost since Chrom's unga frame data beats the Belmonts handily, as they don't really have anything to stop someone once they're in their face.
Also Chrom =/= Lucina.

>a quickplay Chrom that respected his axe with a full hop instead of using his speed to slice him before he could even take out the water
There is a reason he was getting three stocked

Magical how Bowser is a counter to K-Rool

Because the japs hate Raito.

is this real? i need answers and willingly gullible at this point. explain?

Why the actual fuck are you guys still bitching about swords? Pika/Pichu, Palutena, Inklings, Peach/Daisy, Snake, Wolf are way more oppressive and bullshit. At least swordsman don't have projectiles and generally have shitty recoveries.

I wouldn't call him a huge counter, Bowser's got the frame data but K. Rool's got a few tools to keep him in check and edge-guard him. I use Bowser as a secondary and it's nice every now and then to trade in the crown for Bowser's speed.
>tfw no King Koopa echo with Bowser's speed/frame data and K. Rool's slew of gimmicks.

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Every single one of those characters requires more work to succeed than Lucina and Ike.

>Pikachu requiring more work than anything to win

So basically you fucking suck and are at the level where "low skill floor" still means anything.

>made his can launch higher, giving less control over where it goes
>uair is hard to connect consistently
>the fucking knockback change to can, making opponents launch opposite direction from the can's initial launch
>making it hard to launch can backwards from a dash attack (very small window compared to smash 4)

it is such a fucking pain

clips.twitch.tv/GentleAltruisticBadgerFreakinStinkin
Defend this.

Palutena has even less skillful nair spam then Ike since she can combo off of every fucking hit

New to the thread here, but I got my Elite Smash with Richter essentially praying on fire emblem characters. Belmonts have great matchups against them, if you think forcing them to jump puts a Belmont at a disadvantage you obviously don't play Belmont.

Its a unique quirk of PS2 that requires precise spacing

>thinking beating children on QP means anything
>thinks Elite means anything
Beat a bunch of swordies in a local and then you can talk.

Any character with a frame 1 get off me tool like can will never truely be bad. Nerfing frisbee removed the reason you'd play him over snake but he can put in work in a lot of matchups where the opponent doesn't have their own projectile. Low tier but a suitable counterpick for characters like Falcon or Sonic.

>people can still fall out of smash attacks
>can isn't frame 1 anymore
>uptilt doesn't kill anymore
>still no throw kill
>back air feels like it barely kills, even at high percents.
>multiple jab can be shielded crazily

list goes on and on.

it's such a chore, but i love the little bastard regardless.

I'm not sure you can estimate what level he's at just from that, swordies are easier to play at every level.

duck hunt doesn't have frame 1 anymore. i'll still play duck hunt, but there wasn't a single good reason to nerf the frisbee with the shit other characters with projectiles can do, at a faster rate and easier to land.

Ease of use doesn't matter if you're decent at the game since it's assumed you'd know how to control your character.

>

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I have both Belmonts in elite along with half the cast. Play against someone that knows the matchup and see how well you do

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But surely you can understand being salty about playing someone who put in less work because they chose an incredibly simple character to play. It's no reason to rally for nerfs but people need to let off steam.

If you think Sword characters are better than others it's because you're trash and looking for something to blame.

>blah blah blah matchups blah

That's just a crutch to lean the weight of your own failings on. If you can't beat a swordie that knows how to fight a Belmont with a Belmont that's your own inability to adapt. At least your pic is self aware.

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Tournament results prove sword characters are some of the best in the game though. People are calling Ultimate a sword meta.

actually there's a new tilt kill, ftilt's knockback is actually sort of nice

desu i really miss smash 4 dh, even if its shooting clay is ass

Don't make me start an arena and add you to my webm collection of shame

>bad frame data
>When their f-smash is as fast as most characters tilts

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ive noticed, but it's still not viable enough. i really do miss dh 4. he felt so much better to play.

doesnt clay pigeon combo into each other at later percents?
despite the recent patch although a little more inconsistent, i can still pull off 2-3 clay pigeons into uair.

>Tournament results prove sword characters are some of the best in the game though
1. FOX|MVG MKLeo (Ike, Lucina)
2. CLG|VoiD (Pichu, Wolf)
3. eUnited|Smasora (Peach, Daisy)
4. GRV|Dabuz (Olimar, Palutena)
5. GW|Zackray (Wolf)
5. Light (Fox)
7. PG|Cosmos (Inkling)
7. PG|ESAM (Pikachu)
9. Myran (Olimar)
9. TSM|Tweek (Wolf, Wario)
9. CaptainZack (Daisy, Peach, Bayonetta)
9. dB|Yeti (Mega Man)
13. Liquid MVG|Salem (Lucina, Link)
13. SST|Shuton (Olimar)
13.WBG|MVD (Snake)
13. FONC|Prodigy (Mario)
17. K9sBruce (Wolf)
17. Larry Lurr (Fox)
17. AMG|8BitMan (R.O.B.)
17. MVG|DarkWizzy (Mario)
17. Slry Almakashi|Glutonny (Wario)
17. SDX (Mewtwo)
17. NRG|Nairo (Palutena, Lucina, Zero Suit Samus)
17. TSM|Leffen (Pokémon Trainer)
25. Magister (Incineroar)
25. DA|Sinji (Pac-Man)
25. FOW (Ness)
25. LGCY|Sonix (Sonic)
25. Ally (Snake, Mario)
25. Marss (Zero Suit Samus)
25. SNB|Abadango (Inkling)
25. WaDi (R.O.B.)
33. Lima (Bayonetta)
33. ImHip (Olimar)
33. eM|Zenyou (Mario)
33. Shaky (Ness)
33. NAKAT (Pichu)
33. Lui$ (Dr. Mario)
33. Umeki (Daisy)
33. CACAW|Big D (Olimar, Ice Climbers)
33. SF RG|Regi Shikimi (Mr. Game & Watch, Palutena)
33. Mr E (Marth)
33. TGS|Captain L (Pichu)
33. Help!|Stroder (Greninja, Luigi)
33. Demise|ZD (Fox)
33. RG|Kobe (Young Link)

No they don't.
Get good, shitter

it does, mainly for heavy i

>Lucina
>bad frame data
>>j-just adapt!!
Irony

Literally the top 3 chars are peach pichu and wolf

Against super heavies they combo at any percent multiple times

I really Like Lucina because her moveset is the kind of moveset that goes in synch with my mind.

There's no gimmicky shit, I just think "Cover this space here, anti air, kill" and her moves do it

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Would your mind happen to be retarded

it does kind of, mainly for heavies, but the fact that people can viably air dodge out at low percent, too fucking easily mind you, is a slap in the face.

A swordie literally won though.

>peach
Not with that final smash

>top guy is 2 sword characters
way to prove him wrong

Yea.
Lucina is purely no gimmicks and just mechanics.
Players with bad mechanics get wrecked by her.

So it's extra hilarious when people bitch about her being broken

and MKLeo is literally much better than everyone else who showed up

If Swords were so broken they would take up most of the top 32

I thought Big D played DDD

OK, BU WHAT IF

>Link and Cloud are chasing after Ganondorf, who has kidnapped Zelda
>They scuffle for a bit before taking Ganon down
>Zelda laughs and waves at them
>just as they're about to reach her, pic related plunges into Zelda from above with a downward thrust
>GAME!

>Sephiroth drops into battle!
>youtu.be/t7wJ8pE2qKU blares in the background

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Final Smash is irrelevant to how good a character is competitively.

But it's the best in the game

And yet i love them, especially chrom and roy, cause they can actually do a lot in regards to annoying faggots that run away and/or spam projectiles the whole match without it dragging on as badly with other characters.

Reminded me of this.

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Solution: Give Little Mac a swordie recovery and give Marth/Lucina/Roy/Chrom Little Mac's recovery

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Are you stupid?

are you?
No one plays with FS on unless they're a casual

>it's another "someone thinks Ike is top tier because literally one (1) person is getting results with him" episode

yawn

You're stupid for thinking he was serious buddy

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goddamn nothing sucks the soul out of this game as it does fighting a swordfighter as samus. maybe if they added some utility to her shitty missiles she'd have a chance but no, better keep them absolutely useless.

That's not what you use the fireballs for.
Aerials, tilts, and throw in a few dash attacks. When they finally start trying to shield you or counter, side-b them off stage and spam fireballs. It's fucking orgasmic to watch them waste jumps and eat like 70% to the face trying to save themselves with their shitty recoveries before giving up.

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It's time we settle this, Yea Forums. Is it accurate?

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Take Snake out of that bunga bracket you fucking shitter, you have to be at least semi-decent to not blow yourself up
Absolutely disgraceful list

Peach and Daisy could probably go down one and Mario possibly to Just press buttons bro, but otherwise accurate.

>Villager, Isabelle and Snake unga
>Peach unga even though she's one of the hardest characters to use in the game
>Ike, Ganon DDD and Wolf NOT unga
>Marth in not unga
You can tell this was made by some disgusting heavyfag.

Pichachu is just as unga as Pichu

Relax. This is purely based off of quickplay players. I'm sure you're the best Snake in the world.

>DDD is unga
Do you even know what the term means? Nothing in DDD's arsenal is safe to throw out recklessly

>your character unga
>my character big brain, invent wheel

DDD can get by running to the other side of the stage and throwing a Gordo, then immediately pressing B to cover himself. He also can get bullshit kills since he benefits the most from input lag outside of anyone besides maybe Dorf.

Posts like this always come from an Ike main, or other anime character

This is when shitters start coming out of hiding.
>Ike, Ganon DDD and Wolf NOT unga
user, how are any of these characters unga? Just because they're hard to beat? None of these characters have moves you can use recklessly. Do you actually fucking run up to their forward smashes every time?

Just add hurtbox to the swords and everything will be fixed

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Sure thing, idiot.

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This is an issue?
Swords are manipulative with Samus, challenge their options by forcing them to choose between staying on the ground or jumping (and a lot of them want to jump in with attacks) which you can either; Screw Attack if they land on you, or call them out with something like u-air as it is very fast and high reaching.
Then if they stay on the ground, make them fear projectiles, like Super Missile is a free shield poke, small to medium shots leading into grabs / combo starters, make them fear charging in general.
There are much worse matchups than Swords.

t. Samus who did decent on last weekend against Swords but lost to 2 Wolf's because they're fucking popping up everywhere now.

how did they think that something like this would work out fine
it's like if a character had a gun but all the bullets were instead hurtboxes and the hitboxes were on the gun itself

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>t. Samus who did decent on last weekend against Swords but lost to 2 Wolf's because they're fucking popping up everywhere now.
Fucking tell me about it.
There's suddenly a new Wolf main at our local and he's kicking ass. Everyone is picking him up now.

Didn't Noel in one of the BB's have a problem similar to that where despite dual weilding pistols, the hitboxes on her normals were miniscule?

Noel didn't really have projectiles. It was just boxes at the ends of her guns.

It's his fucking buttons, they have no recoil or drawback of any kind.
From how I stated above (as that's how I start every matchup to learn) half the things don't work because f-air and start of n-air are stupidly safe and large making it impossible to challenge.
Also edgeguarding is impossible too due to the fear of Flash or Fire Wolf being not only extremely hard to challenge but best case almost always just trade in every situation.
One of my matches was me trading an up-tilt with a Flash as the guy must have been somewhat new to Wolf coming from Falco that it could snap the ledge, killed us both. The fucking thing can get the strong hitbox before getting hit by bomb explosions into up-tilt ledge traps and it pisses me off.

Cloud was definitely more braindead than Ike and Lucina

>Dorf having countless tools
Don't make me laugh, the guy has ridiculously limited options.

Make them all keep their sword sheathed at all times except when attacking to add extra startup and ending lag to all attacks

as a marth main i am almost positive this is already there to an extent, specially when i do shield breaker

I don't think we will get a third song