Worst FF?

this, you can have any "best game" you want but if you put anything below 15 you're retarded

Worst FFs and why:
>FF2 because its leveling mechanics were broken and unfun
>FF8 because its Draw mechanic was broken and convoluted
>FF13 because it was horribly linear and took too long to get interesting

IMO FF12 and FF4 are next in line, but mostly because they are bland instead of them being actually bad.

6>12>9>7> power gap> the rest

of the side ff games

Dissidia 012> Vagrant Story > Chocobo Dungeon> Tactics/Tactics A2

I personally really loved Type 0 for how varied every characters gameplay style was but can understand why most dont like it

Final Fantasy XII was the game that XIII and XV wanted to be, but failed because there's no god tier character like Vayne.

True, we could do that, but that won't change the facts user. FF6 trully is a piece of shit game. The only positive thing from that game, really the only positive thing, is Ultros boss fight... in XIII-2

I'm pretty curious about XII myself. I-VI are the classics and VII-X are the 3D classics. XII is caught between an MMO that's barely even compared to the other games and the fall from relevancy that is the XII trilogy and XV. I've picked up on some wildly differing opinions on XII. Don't know why this one in particular is so divisive.

My dude.

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Did you only play the first game of the 13 trilogy? Yeah, 13 was linear but at least decent, 13-2 went full fucking retarded with time travelling and different realities, i thought that was bad but then i played LR and my god what the fuck did they smoke

XII is divise because people didn't like the idea of Vaan as MC, preferring someone someone like Basch or Balthier instead.

The worst Final Fantasy is 2j, you dunces.

Vann was only added to appeal to the younger crowd. Trying to justify him is stupid.

That is why he hardly has any relevance when everyone else joins

>Dissidia best non-numbered FF game
>Tactics last
I know this is bait, but I angered a little.

completely boring

...Are you mentally challenged?
Opinions are not facts and true and false aren't opinions.

If I said "In my opinion Bosch is the MC" your statement would be relevant.
Me saying Vaan was forgettable and boring is an opinion. Your opinion that he isn't is also an opinion. Neither one are true or false you dumbass.

>I-VI are the classics
Nobody sane actually plays I-III, nobody actually likes playing IV, and V is only for "muh jobs" autists. Wherever some site tries to make a "favourite FF" poll, these old games and XIII end up at the bottom.

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I'd love to play it again but the remaster is like 50 yuros. I ain't paying all that money for a game that came out over a decade ago

Vaan was pretty good. Ashe on the other was full blown retarded.

so get it on sale?

Worst FF and why it's undoubtably 15.

>12 is the best one

>Dude what if we made literally half the cast be inconsequential to the story
>Dude what if we made a cast that barely says anything and almost never interacts with each other
>Dude what if we made multiple cutscenes where the main character has no idea what's going on and just stands in the background while people who matter speak
>Dude what if we made a character who's literally just a random girl off the street
>Dude what if we made a villain who has zero emotional connection to the heroes and doesn't even meet them until the last ten minutes
>Dude what if we took Final Fantasy Tactics' setting and made it a poor man's Star Wars
>Dude what if we gave the narrator a comical Apu accent
>Dude what if we made a political plot and then ruined it by turning it into standard ancient god shenanigans
>Dude what if we made a plot where the heroes have almost no impact on what happens until 95% of the way through the story and spend their time traipsing through non-descript caves and ruins
>Dude what if I'm Captain Basch
>Dude what if we took everything 100% seriously and had zero levity
>Dude what if we wrote all of the dialogue to sound like a Renaissance Fair
>Dude what if we we had no overworld and all travel was handled by a menu or floating teleport crystals
>Dude what if we made a battle system where you set everything up in advance so that you don't actually play the game
>Dude what if we made summons useless except for opening doors
>Dude what if instead of fun side quests we had only fetch/kill quests like in some generic MMO
>Dude what if instead of having fun side games like the motorcycle chase and Triple Triad we had nothing
>Dude what if we had really shitty music

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Imagine being so fucked up that you can't form an opinion nor write an actual statement, but instead need to link some shitty article from some unknown site.

15 is much more fun than 2, 4, 5, 12 and 13.

It's bad but still not on 13's or 15's level.

>great tier
Tactics
>good tier
6, 7, 10
>okay tier
4, Tactics Advance, Dissidia, Duodecim
>poor tier
8, 10-2, 12, Type 0
>shit tier
13, 15, Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus

>people still complain that Vaan is a terrible protagonist
>the same people love Balthier and wish he was the protagonist, despite being a character that is such a donutsteel Mary Sue that became a judge when he was 16 years old, but then left it all behind to become a pirate

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>Retarded
>Can't even quote the right person
Checks out

>Not 15, 8 or 13-1

I always thought that Balthier became a judge due to nepotism, and Dr. Cid wanted to keep a close eye on the Senate.

I, IV, and V are all regarded as classics by basically anyone who's played them. III and II are often ignored since they're the least played.
>nobody actually likes playing IV
lol

Good protagonists aren't all about their personality, but how they interact with the main story and the world. Balthier at least is an opinionated guy that has actual ties to what's happening in the plot. Vaan just... doesn't.

Vaan's brother got murdered by Noah who was framing Basch, his life was impacted negatively by the war, and he's the only one who could see the spectre of Rasler.

The point is that there wasn't a main character. Everyone had their own reasons for what they were doing.

Its not like, say, FFVII where people just joined you all willy nilly.

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Crisis Core isn't THAT bad

>Balthier at least is an opinionated guy that has actual ties to what's happening in the plot.
He doesn't, not in any meaningful sense. Balthier is not the protagonist and is nothing close to the protagonist. He's a little bitch who ran away from his life and problems and calls himself "The Leading Man" out of vanity. His role in the story is minimal, his interactions with the rest of the characters minor. His only antagonistic relationship is with Dr. Cid, and even then, it never comes to a head or even actually influences anything, because the party is opposed to Dr. Cid by default and Balthier's motivations never actually enter into it.
Anyone who calls him in any way protagonistic is merely swayed by his charisma. He has nothing to do with the plot at large beyond cursing Venat for stealing his daddy. He has nothing against Archades itself, no relationship or any stake at all with the fate of Dalmasca, no legacy of kings, no desire for revenge, no claim to Nethicite, nothing at all to do with anything or anyone except for the fact that he's Dr. Cid's son.
Basch is not close to a protagonist either. Though he has personal enmity with Gabranth and Archades as a whole, and fealty to Dalmasca and a desire to see it restored, he ultimately has no sway. He's the knight. He follows the orders of his lady. No drive, no power beyond personal strength. It's not his story.
The only protagonists of XII are Ashe (it is 100% her story) and Vaan (he is the observer, the Ishmael to Ashe's Ahab). And Vaan is similar to Basch in that while he has personal stakes, he doesn't get to lead the story either. But unlike Basch it's not because of honor or loyalty but practicality, he knows nobody would listen to him.

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how is Holding O while exploring an empty open world "fun"?

Balthier doesn't have anything to do with Ashe's quest for 90% of the game; Fran even less so. Vaan is an absolutely shit protagonist, but nobody in the party except for Ashe and Bash actually deserve to be there.

I hate Vaan but actually think Balthier is even more annoying, Ashe is also a cuntbag. Basche and Fran are basically the only redeeming characters.

>FF2 because its leveling mechanics were broken and unfun

FF2 wasn't great, but the game's mechanics spawned an entire timeless series in SaGa.

FF8 tried to copy Megaten/Persona and failed. However, the game's soundtrack, visuals and story set the standard for FF games for years to come (excluding FF9, of course).

FF13 is the one which really broke the camel's back. It gets good, but literally 20 hours in. And no matter how gorgeous the game is, it was the Final Fantasy which put FF games on the backburner for about a fucking decade.

Sexy boys doing cool animations make my dick rock hard.

Ashe and Basch alone would've be creepy. Like I can see Basch struggle with the guilt of letting her father died, failing to protect the homeland, and deep hidden urges to make things right by helping Ashe mixed in with an urge to breed heirs with her young nubile body.

>It gets good 40 hours in
I know that's not the argument you were making but it's pretty similar and why would I play 40 hours of a game that O lost interest in less than 10

What personal reasons did Vaan, Penelo, Balthier, or Fran have to tag along with Ashe? Ultimately, their reasons boil down to just "I have nothing better to do".

>FF2 wasn't great, but the game's mechanics spawned an entire timeless series in SaGa.

>he thinks FF2 invented learn-by-use rpg systems
The likely explanation for saga using those systems is taht they were taking inspiration from western rpgs from the 80's.

>Dude what if we had really shitty music
>theme of the empire
>bad
holy fuck some real big brain takes in this post

Hot take: FFXII would have been a thousand times better if the story was about a guy who made it his life's goal to seduce and impregnate as many rabbit women as he possibly could, with the end result being so many impregnated Viera that a new sub-race was created.

You can't do that against most enemies.

Most of the Viera are gay. They have two sexes, but they refuse to interact unless it's for procreation.

>bland orchestral shit
>good

Vaan had personal reasons because his brother was killed by Noah. Penelo comes along for protection, and not sold into slavery. She also had a small connection to Larsa, who was Vanye's younger brother. With more time, Vanye would've encouraged Larsa to take Penelo as his consort.

first jrpg?

>You can't do that against most enemies.

except you can. It only doesn't work on the leopard enemies with the instant kill counter (where it's better to just not fight them) or Tonberries (they give to many PRESS SQUARE TO COUNTER prompts that it's faster to counter and parry them)

Plus XV allows you to heal yourself at 0 HP on normal mode

Not making any argument really, if you thought that 13 was bad it's because you've never played LR, almost nobody in this thread did probably, it's an abortion at its best.

>They have two sexes
Source on this, why isnt there a single male Viera in all of FF XII?

12 is literally the best Final Fantasy

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>You can't do that against most enemies.
Uh-huh.

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because males are disgusting

>worst FF game
>not II, III, XIII or XV

Not wanting to be devil's advocate, but "most" implies that there are "Some" that you can do that to.

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>>Dude what if instead of having fun side games like the motorcycle chase and Triple Triad we had nothing
this was the only real disappointment of the game

Name ONE just ONE FF game where you can't defeat random mobs by hitting attack button

>XII
>Worst

This is the part where I'd ask you to get a vasectomy because we don't need another one of you running around with such garbage fucking opinions but then I remembered I'm on Yea Forums so I don't have to worry about shit-stains like you reproducing.

That's not most enemies and you don't have to do that anyway.

10, too much of a step backwards after the open ended experiences of 7-9. 12 is a lot like 15, it's ambitious and at the very least unique, but it's kind of an unfinished clusterfuck. Still love them though. 13 is like a true sequel to 10, both are linear storytelling experiences.

Male Viera are isolationist assholes who hate everything and refuse to leave the woods or interact with their women unless it's to procreate or to show up and get their newborn sons 9 months later.

Female Viera are also like this, but to a much lesser degree to the point that you can at least somewhat interact with them, and a number of female Viera eventually leave the forests and abandon their tribes for something greater.

That said, that something greater often involves them losing their ability to "Speak" to the wood, and with that, comes willingness to hop on the cocks of other men against their people's traditions.

FF8 is easily one of the best RPG ever created

>Vaan had personal reasons because his brother was killed by Noah.
And that's why he should follow some princess he'd never met before and whose family politics actually got them into the whole mess? Keep in mind that Archadia invaded in response to Nabradia inviting an invasion from Rozarria.
>Penelo comes along for protection, and not sold into slavery.
Because fighting thousands of monsters and demons is clearly safer than simply going home to Migelo.
>She also had a small connection to Larsa, who was Vanye's younger brother. With more time, Vanye would've encouraged Larsa to take Penelo as his consort.
She talked to him once. And why the fuck would a consummate professional politician encourage his brother to marry a barely literate peasant from some sandnigger backwater?

Face it, user: the FFXII player party is terrible.

shame about the bad characters, bad story, drawing, levelscaling, bad card game, and bad romance

still better than XV

6, 7, and 12 are terrible
8 and 13 are flawed, but great
5 is the best
Final Fantasy is a shit series

Face it user, you are too retarded to understand that XII is an ensemble piece with multiple characters.

>Balthier - at first it was circumstance, then it was on grounds of payment (in the form of Raithwall's treasure). Then it was nethicite, he wanted to stop his father and make sure that Ashe didn't end up like his father. Also, service to a heir to the throne is bound to pay off in the end.

>Fran - best friend and partner to Balthier.

>Vaan - orphan with a personal stake in the outcome of Ashes coronation. He wants justice for Reks. He is also under the tutelage of Balthier, his lifelong dream is to leave his street rat life behind and become a sky pirate, so joining this quest is also in service of his dream.

>Panello - also an orphan. Loves Vaan. Serves as a partner, much in the vein of Fran.

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>Male Viera are isolationist assholes who hate everything and refuse to leave the woods or interact with their women unless it's to procreate or to show up and get their newborn sons 9 months later.
They don't deserve to exist desu.

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triple triad > tetra master

>Bad music
youtube.com/watch?v=xZ2rw-VDwfA

sorry, but 12 is an Ivalice game, so it's automatically better than the rest of the non-Ivalice FF games.

>Crisis Core
>bad
Absolutly shit taste

True, however I exaggerated about the nine months bit.
They actually leave the male children with the women until they hit puberty and all the hard work is done. THEN they come collect them.

>And that's why he should follow some princess he'd never met before and whose family politics actually got them into the whole mess? Keep in mind that Archadia invaded in response to Nabradia inviting an invasion from Rozarria.
Vaan first pursues Ashe because he wants treasure, then he realizes he met Basch and wants revenge and will not let go of him until justice is served somehow, then by his own words, after discovering that Basch was not the real killer(the whole deal is kinda bullshit though, how would he know who killed his brother?) he follows Ashe because he lost purpose when anger and revenge vanished from his mind, he couldnt just go back home after everything happened since he wouldnt know what to do about his life, he really didnt care about being a pirate, that was just him coping and now he didnt care about Basch because he wasnt the killer, if he went back nothing was expecting him back home(other than Penelo, but Vaan is an idiot).
I wont argue about Penelo, she IS useless most of the time.

Absolutely based

Are male viera the biggest faggot race in fiction? holy crap.

It had hunts, which reaped tons of rewards.

>bad characters
Wrong. A lot of them don't get enough development, especially Quistis, but they're far from bad
>bad story
Only in the last bits.
>drawing
Irrelevant with how many ways of bypassing it there are.
>levelscaling
Irrelevant. If anything it's good because you can purposely up the difficulty.
>bad card game
Oh you can fuck right off with this shit opinion.
>bad romance
Best FF romance, actually. Not that this means a whole lot.

>not like FFVII

Did you completely switch up on purpose? Everyone's reason for jpining in VII was because of Shinra. Every single character had a personal grudge against Shinr. How could ypu not notice this?

Exterminate Male vieras.

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>Only in the last bits.

the story went bad the moment the Ultimecia asspull happened

Which was literally in disc 3, aka the last bits.
And even then, it only went full retard with the Ragnarok.

So...niggers

>Balthier - at first it was circumstance, then it was on grounds of payment (in the form of Raithwall's treasure).
Which he never got.
>Then it was nethicite
That he's never shown to give a fuck about about.
>he wanted to stop his father
After being completely indifferent to Cid's doings for years?
>make sure that Ashe didn't end up like his father
See above.
>Also, service to a heir to the throne is bound to pay off in the end.
Not if that heir doesn't have a throne. If that were his reason, he should have gotten chummy with Al-Cid or Vayne.
>Fran - best friend and partner to Balthier.
And completely pointless story-wise.
>orphan with a personal stake in the outcome of Ashes coronation. He wants justice for Reks.
Ashe's coronation would not give him justice in any way. House Dalmasca was also involved in Reks' death.
>his lifelong dream is to leave his street rat life behind and become a sky pirate, so joining this quest is also in service of his dream.
Vaan explicitly says that it was just an excuse to make himself feel important and "run away" from the present reality. It was never his dream at all.
>Vaan: And then I'd miss my brother. I'd say stuff like "I'm gonna be a sky pirate"... or some other stupid thing. Just anything to keep my mind off it. I was just - I was running away.

That's not 13 or 15

I mean...Might as well.
The Feol showed us that humans breeding with Viera doesn't deprive the world of rabbit pussy. They just get shorter, have more skin-tone variety, and any sons you have will actually like being around their own women instead of retreating to the deepest parts of the woods to play Legolas with each other and violently sperg out against anything that so much looks at their territory.

13 a shit

No. Did you miss the part where I said they actually come back for their sons?

No the biggest issue was the story going to shit at the end because of different writers. That said, it is my favorite.

It isn't

If you're never going to play FF2 at least believe people when they say it is the worst. It is bad.

Vincent had practically no backstory in VII.
Cid joined on a practically on a whim.
Yuffie had no real stake in the story.

Anyone with a working brain knows that. Only contrarians disagree.

Final Fantasy XV is now the worst one.

How about you just play the game and not look up how everyone else played the game to copy their learned methods and follow their guides.

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This.

FF12 is the best in the series.

Best summons.

Best story.

Best characters.

Best voice acting.

Worst protagonist. Shit.

>Best summons
FF XII is my favorite but at least half the summons are shit.

tactics is very ovverated, Dissidia 012 is the best side FF game with a bullet, not even a content.
Its even one of the top 3 FF games period

You can fuck right off putting 12 and crisis core down there, but putting 6 that high

>left it all behind
Even you have misunderstood Balthier.
He ran away, escaped. Not even abandoned; he fled. He didn't become a sky pirate because he wanted to, like he was seeking adventure or something that he couldn't get elsewhere. He was hiding from responsibility.

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Playing the game, I would not want balthier or basch to be the main character because they are perfect in their current states. Both have their own arcs that they play out and wouldn't be the same if main character shounen duties were thrust on them

>Balthier never cared about nethicite

Odd, the first encounter the player has with his is when Balthier was trying to steal nethicite. Nethicite is metaphorically and literally the monkey on his fathers back, he knows his father is not a good person and he knows what made him that way.

Being a partner doesn't make you completely useless storywise, if you act in service to people who are actively progressing the story.

Vaans timeline:
FFXII -
>"I want to be a sky pirate"
>joins sky pirate
>erupts with joy everytime they board a ship
>"Just kidding, I dont want to be a sky pirate"
>still hangs out with sky pirates
Cut to FFXII: Revenant Wings
>captain of his own sky pirate ship

>play for 40 hours
>realize you've fucked up the builds
>need to restart the game

yeah thats a great idea

ff12 is a fairly divisive game and i dont blame people for not liking but if you think its the worst game in the entire serious then you've got brain problems

FF12 has the best main theme

>Wants guides but complains everything is easier.
you can't have both user if you have a guide everything will be easy

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I'll never understand why people act like Vaan had such a huge presence in Final Fantasy XII. I found Tidus to be far more unsufferable, in part thanks to his voice acting, and I'm not talking about the laughing scene.

You Buildfags ruin every single game for yourselves. You don't even know if it's possible to "ruin a build" yet and you're already looking at guides.
Play the game, you'll be fine.
It's a goddamn final fantasy game, not something difficult.

Based and redpilled.

I played Final Fantasy IV for the first time last year and it was absolute shit compared to everything else that came later. The only good thing about V is the job system as you mentioned.

>retarded pasta poster can't even @ the right person
it's like poetry

It's not 12 is some old school CRPG where worrying about your build fucking you over is a legitimate complaint. Just do what you want. Zodiac makes it even easier to bounce back even if you do somehow fuck up.

I don't think I would have played FFXII longer than 5 hours if the Zodiac Age version didn't have the speed button.
It still took a good 20 hours before the gameplay got good (but the story never did). Turns out the game has some of the best late game content in the series.

12 was kino, but Vaan and Penelo should have been more involved and their romance should have developed in XII as opposed to leaving that for that weird sequel.

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Not that user but I maintain that Vaan didnt care that much about being a sky pirate at first, most of his motivation for that came from him coping with sadness and anger. By the end of FF 12 he is already friends with a very cool sky pirate and has somewhat learned the ropes of the job while having gone through a continent wide adventure, so (for me at least) its obvious that his coping mechanism became an actual joy during the game. Also, he is a street rat, what else was he gonna do?

I want to fug all the female cast.

you misunderstand, the remake apparently doubles the ammount of points you get or something and allows you to have dual builds, making it so you dont even need to think about investments or wasted spots

Does anyone know if the original japanese Zodiac has a respec system? that's the only way you can not worry about this

But then we wouldn't her nice sequel outfit.

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That's forgettable trash

None of the FF games have a respec system, which would eliminate the main problem of the game entirely sadly but they just wouldn't do that.

I really hope the Switch release includes the original board, or at least some kind of hard mode unlocked by default. Otherwise you can sleep through combat.

12 is the most disappointing, but far from the actual worst. Worst would either be II, or XIII.

This is the only memorable XII song and I'm fairly sure it is either a remix or a reimagining of a song from Tactics.
youtu.be/YvW9KQ5vu8Y

>that top tier midriff
>that sexy kissable navel
we aren't worthy

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You child. It's like you can't invest thought by yourself. Gotta let someone else thinks for you, huh?

12 really isn't even that bad. It seemed bad when it originally released but compared to what we got with 13 and 15 in retrospect it looks pretty good. I played the Zodiac Age version last year and enjoyed it a lot more than I did when I played the original on PS2.

Also it annoys me that the MMOs are actual numbered entries and not spin offs like Tactics or Dissidia. The numbered games should be single player only imo.

the only downside of her costume is not having opened toe sandals

7, 13, and 15 are easily the worst.

But you know that's not how it really works. Build guides are important because so many games fuck things up like forexample have useless weapon types because of a woeful lack of representation so specializing in some weapons would be a waste. Sometimes some skills flat out don't even work because of bugs. This is the kind of shit that you need build guides for.

Shame. But it's pretty nice still.

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He was present for every scene, just like you were, as the observer. In the end, he's the reason Ashe doesn't become the next King Raithwall. The streetrat child of her kingdom, experience the same loss she did, was able to discover the better way of handling the outcome faster than she did and it saves Ivalice when she can put aside revenge and pride, as Vaan did.

>stop-and-go combat when using menus pauses the game when Kingdom Hearts already didn't have this problem
>micromanaging gambits is a chore
>can't see where you're going on the license board when it was just fine letting players see the whole sphere grid in ffx
>fire beats water, ice beats lightning, etc
>summons are slow, clumsy, underpowered, and get you killed
>limit break mechanic is chance-based and costs too much in resources
>characters all play the same
>side content and map navigation are annoying
>maps are pointlessly huge and boring
>arbitrary loot system that punishes players by deleting the best weapon just for playing the game normally
>lots of filler, half the plot and characters are pointless
>bland music, only a few stand-out tracks
Fran is the only good part of the game. That's why it's the worst.

I'd target Penelo's romance, sure.

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A lot of the complaints regarding XII's heroes stems mostly from them being upstaged by the villains. Vayne was the true protagonist of XII, wanting to free man from the shackles of gods even if it meant being labeled as a villain. He went out of his way to ensure that Larsa had an easy transition, and would've gone further by suggesting he made Penelo his consort. Vayne has that rare mix of affable, cunning, and charisma missing in future releases.

you can mod the game to have the original license board im pretty sure. theres a nexus for the game

youtu.be/xq7iLLFlerg?t=5343

Yeah but he has a sexy, suave voice and personality, no homo

>15, 8, 12, and 13 that high
>5 that low
What plebs filled out this poll?

>5
>good
jobfags pls. It's not even as good as FF3.

>>Dude what if we made multiple cutscenes where the main character has no idea what's going on and just stands in the background while people who matter speak

This is based actually, more games should do this

Why does Ashe look better in the art? In the games she acts like a bitch who keeps teasing Basch with her mini skirt

The most delicious copypasta. Fuck 12. Gameplay is just a worse, more tedious version of Kingdom Hearts, and the story is so bland.

Build guides are for you whiny little brats who can't use every weapon, every armor and every magic in the game, so you NEED to have some in-game-guide next to your tutorial so you won't miss a single thing at the earliest point it's available. Or break it some way.

If you think FFXII can't be played because
>some skills flat out don't even work because of bugs. This is the kind of shit you need build guides for.
then you're desperately stupid or literally looking for justification about how you've already formed an opinion for a game you haven't played.
>specializing in some weapons would be a waste
So don't? Or maybe you like that weapon and want to specialize in it...so, do? Literally every single person everywhere has told you, "just do whatever you want, it's not going to affect anything."
>wah, some characters have faster attack animations!
>wah, some stats are off by as much as 7 at level 99!
>wah, I can't dare not be perfect and never invest myself or experience risk! No fun!

Try games on your own. You're not losing anything, it's Final Fantasy game.

The ONLY thing I can think about people asking about "tips" or something is like when you start some RNG game that locks you into a Monster Hunter Charm table that literally makes it impossible to get certain things (and you'd never know if no one told you, anyway).

>Gameplay is just a worse, more tedious version of Kingdom Hearts

confirmed for not playing FF12 or KH. They do not have similar gameplay

I think you're confusing ff12 with ff6. Penelo and Fran are just there. At least Fran has the decency to be a total sex bomb. Meanwhile, Vaan's dead brother motivation is total weak sauce. Ashe is just a better Vaan with more agency.

I think the PSP version of I is amazing

2 and 8 are my favorites.

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The worst one is a tie between XIII and XV. XIV is pure trash too, every other game is above these garbage bin tier games.

13-2 was originally supposed to be a Chrono game. LR was supposed to be another in the line of Valkyrie Profile.

Holy shit lmao

>Dissidia 012 is the best side FF game
No, user. That would be WoFF.
I mean, I respect everyone's opin--OK, I'm lying. I honestly can't understand why (and what exactly) some people like (in) Dissidia. Or VI. Or XV.

Because she's literally a slut.

Probably not CRPGs, but maybe pen and paper.

>not even as good as 3
>...where there aren't as many jobs and most of them are just duplicates of each other
>...where you're punished for experimentation rather than rewarded
>...where the long term gains of jobs are largely intangible
>...where specializing in black magic is the worst mistake of your life, but there are dungeons where black magic is required

oof

Literally plays itself. Voice acting sounds like it was done in a bathroom stall inb4 >they fixed it later!!!!!

King Raithwall ended a million of civil wars, created the largest empire in history, and ushered several centuries of peace and prosperity. Ashe would have never been the next Raithwall because she's too myopic and dumb for that.

>stop-and-go combat when using menus pauses the game when Kingdom Hearts already didn't have this problem
So play in real-time without pausing?
>micromanaging gambits is a chore
Then play with menu pausing?

You don't know what you want.

FF12 doesn't play anything like Kingdom Hearts.

Similarities:
>action rpg
>real time with a menu
>three party members
>magic, equipment, summons, limits

Differences:
>kh is more fast-paced and fluid
>kh difficulty is more balanced due to limited inventory and fewer characters
>kh has less tedious micromanagement
>kh let's you manually block and evade while ff12 capitalizes on NONE of the advantages of real time

>Superficial similarities, not functional similarities
>I'm a KH cocksucker
ftfy

>action rpg
What part of XII is "action"

not even caring for the rest of your bait

There is nothing "action" in 12.

You missed my point. I'm saying that whether you use gambit to make the combat more automatic, or you try to play manually which makes the game pause all the fucking time, it's not satisfying or fun. Both automatic and manual playstyles suck.

>the Ultimecia asspull happened
What asspull?

And enslaved humanity to ethereal beings.

The real question is, "are those 'gods' good or bad?"

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You know what, fine. Maybe the two games are more different than I realized. I still think that kh is the better game. Besides, I blame ff12 for giving me false expectations. I still stand by my point that ff12 is real time for no reason.

Writers created such convoluted and ass-puled excuse just because they didn't want to see half-naked bunnymen in games. Embarassing.

>any FF worse than 15

Yeaaaah noooo.

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random reveal at disc 3.

it's just as bad as the asspull reveal of the Patriot AI

Not that guy, but there are objective standards based on the characteristic most often shown in a person and obviously their will to action or reasoning is at play. So it can be measured objectively. Now, if someone were to say that Vaan was added to the game/plot whatever and there are obvious markers, just as plot continuity or scenes that doesn't make sense in the context of the dialogue and story or the point or objective of said character for the benefit of the story, then said character was added just for the appeasement of an external stimuli, not because of the coherence of the writer and his imagination. Now, I never played 12 and I will eventually get there, but it gives him plenty of ammo just to say that since it is quite known that Japan loves to feature (and this is proven and said by them) young boys in their media. This is a marketing ploy to attract kids and teenagers and when this happens, the maturity of the work goes down.

I'm not understanding? Random reveal? Like what I think you're saying is that Ultimecia was as out of the blue as Necron.

It's real time so once you've actually played the game for more than an hour you can breeze through encounters if you so desire, the gambit system is fine and allows you to program your party to behave how you want them to in almost any situation.

I don't see how you can say KH is fast-paced when FFXII allows you to end encounters in seconds without having to do anything but run toward the monster if you've got your gambits setup the way you want them.

12 is great
2 is the worst one. Followed by 15

>Like what I think you're saying is that Ultimecia was as out of the blue as Necron.

That is exactly what I am saying.

It's almost like the people who shitpost don't play games or something huh?
>The world's actually presented in such a way where the cast itself is only a small factor of what's going on in earnest, as it should be instead of "These people are the only people who matter" like so much of other storytelling.
>The game itself is a singeplayer port of FFXI. Doing release it was even made fun of being such in many cases thanks towards how gambits worked. KH has jumping, air combat, and you only have the ability to control Sora, unable to play as anyone else, with only 'Keyblade' being the only weapon type available as a playing style. Unlike FFXII where there's 10 different weapon styles, and you can directly control any 1 of the 6 characters at any time, or control the active 3 as you see fit (even if unoptimized and slow as fuck, it's still an option).
>The game rewards player logic with the Gambit system, more or less making your own AI on demand to fit any needs you see fit. Along with at later parts of the game a ton of 'sidegrades' and less 'upgrades', letting you customize your team as you desire to fit roles, without a 'just buy the newest shit' as a solution.
Do not become shitposters people.

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Was it really the tone of Tidus' voice that you didn't like? I think personally was the way he was written. Whoever wrote that manchild has no idea how a young adult would act if he were transferred to another place in time and quickly had to dealt with complexity. His actions towards the feedback of the world he's receiving doesn't make sense.

I've been playing XIITZA and having fun with it.
My crippling indecisiveness is not letting me decide on what second jobs to give to characters, but whatever

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Don't listen to Ondore's lies!

>>The game itself is a singeplayer port of FFXI
It absolutely in no way is a "singleplayer port of FFXI"

They both have real-time combat, that's where the similarities end. And FFXI is a single-player version of itself now anyway.

...but she wasn't...?
If anything we KNEW about Ultimecia. Fucking hell since disk 1 it was what SeeD was made to stop directly. You can't tell me it was a last second ass pull when everyone involved understood that it was the final target at the end of the day.

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XII's artstyle is pretty nice.

Had the same problem, but it didn't really hit me until after I maxed out everyone's first license board.

Guys, question. FF (and few other SE games) is on sale on Steam.
Apparently, the sale ends on 25th. That's Monday. But I can't find specific info - will the sale end at midnight on Monday, or is the sale goding on on Monday too, meaning it will end on Tuesday?

Liking ff12 os one of the best retard filter ever, any true fan already jumped ship from this series from that point.

You should’ve seen her in the scrapped sequel.
>Basch and her were gonna fuck
>she gets mad at him for doing his job as a soldier and protecting the country instead of serving her every single day
>he gets captured
>she fucks Larsa and marries him
>Basch dies

All that really matters is that Balthier got that sweet princess cunny

The only thing FFXI has that FFXII does not is the elemental chain gimmick, that no one even used outside of the smallest of situations, that FFXII dropped in turn for quickanings. Otherwise how aggro works, how many of the skills and spells works, a ton of nuances with weapon speed and combo strikes, even how damage mitigation works uses the same fucking math that FFXI does, making it very clear it took it as a base and was built on top of it's foundation. Though it's clear they streamlined and stripped down things and added their own stuff as well (Summons and Gambits being the obvious two), but otherwise it's not a lot of digging to see the proof.

Ah that means you have issue with her introduction at disc 2 a bit less than half of the way in, yeah?

I'm not sure I can agree with that for being "worse" than the average Final Fantasy. She at least gets introduced with more than a quarter of the game left. That's not exactly common "worst" material.

Zemus gets introduced 10 hours before game completion
Garland IS introduced but you don't find out he's the big bad until right when the game is about to end
Necron comes from literally literally nowhere. and that's sorta fine since he's not the main antagonist I guess
You only find out about Yu Yevon literal hours before you beat the game.
Cloud of Darkness literally only pops up at the ass end when you kill Xande

This series isn't exactly shy from pulling a "man behind the man".
This is of course without mentioning foreshadowing.

You're shitting with us, right?

>>The world's actually presented in such a way where the cast itself is only a small factor of what's going on in earnest, as it should be instead of "These people are the only people who matter" like so much of other storytelling.
What kind of nonsense argument is this? How does that justify being the characters and plot being so underdeveloped?

The criticism against ff12 isn't that it lacks world-shaving shenanigans (although it does devolve into that, so your argument makes no sense), its that the story is underdeveloped. The cast has no chemistry with each oher and barely even talk t to each other. For most of the game, you're just going through generic ruins and noit doing anything relevant to the main story.

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FFT

Nope. FF12 Fortress. Long story short there’s some sea god causing havoc etc etc. Basch dies and replaces the god while Ashe fucks Larsa

Nah. Initially SeeD was targeting Edea, but it was revealed in disk 1(2?) that she was behind all of the shenanigans.

Fortress was canceled for a reason. Never trust your multillion IP to a bunch of literal whos
that said, they did them wrong and killed their company

I googled it.
Oh.

I hated 12 when it released but 13 and 15 retroactively made it God-tier

>Fucking hell since disk 1 it was what SeeD was made to stop directly

SeeD was made to stop the sorceress, which was Edea. You spent 2 discs stopping her and then when you stop her, it's revealed at the start of Disc 3 it was ANOTHER witch all along.

Which felt like bullshit to pad out this mediocre game

Odd. I loved 12 when it released and I find it boring as shit now.

Type-0 is by far the worst game by a large margin.
>14 separate characters that you can only gain EXP for 3 at a time, EXP gain is slow, and you need to keep everyone equally leveled because the main story splits you up constantly.
>The characters not named Ace, Machina, or Rem have next to no development even if you do their specific quests. Queen is like the only one that even comes close.
>The entire first playthrough explains literally nothing and the final two hours explain even less than nothing to the point that you have no investment in any of the Agito class' sacrifices because you don't understand why they're dying and what it even prevents.
Machine is s the only one you even give a shit about because you can understand why he did what he did. You essentially put in 40 or more hours and get nothing satisfying out of it.
>Time system for absolutely no reason, then not only making events permanently missable for a playthrough but also requiring something in the ballpark of three or more playthroughs just to see everything there is to see.
>Can only take quests one at a time meaning the 30 odd quests in the school require you to plan around them just so you can turn them in with the least amount of time loss.
>Expert quests are not only terribly balanced (Especially the territory defense ones), but they also take 6 or 12 hours just to attempt.
>Game balance is completely fucked thanks to the Killsight system where until you're in the level 50 range on a character you can't even kill enemies reliably just doing normal damage so you need to simply wait for a killsight to appear to not only knock an enemy down but do 5x the damage you would do normally attacking the enemy .
>Characters like Deuce, Cinque, Nine, and Sice take a ridiculous amount of investment in both levels and equips just to make usable and even then Cinque and Sice attack like grandmothers with arthritis trying to grab a spoon.
The game is only good for the panty shots.

might be the worst opinion on FF in the history of 4chin

>8 that high
>1 that low

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It was clear from the get go for anyone not taking anything directly said that Edea was just part of the problem. How Cid handles the situation and divvys out information is very clear he knows, and if you read your computer and do those SeeD lore tests instead of using a guide, you'd know that Edea was -a- sorceress, but not -the- sorceress that SeeD at the end of the day was trying to stop. but if you've got tunnel vision and only take in what the most core parts of a story is telling you, then yeah, it's kinda last second, but so are most other 'twists' in any media if you're not picking up on context clues as well.

>but it was revealed in disk 1(2?) that she was behind all of the shenanigans.

Disc 3 was the out of the blue Ultimecia reveal

>You only find out about Yu Yevon literal hours before you beat the game.
Wait, what?

You're telling me you're angry a witch was possessing someone.

And to make it a Final Fantasy game, they went to the future at the cost of the entire planet's existence, the heroes of the planet and freedom where the cast fought supreme fantasy beings related in power to omnipotence.

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After you kill Yunalesca (who mentions him briefly) and return to Bevelle. Mika tells you that all is lost
youtu.be/-ZODzFiYNjU?t=434 while also explaining what the fuck Yu Yevon is.

This was intentional, mind you. In interviews they talk about how they removed a lot of imagery and foreshadowing to do more of a gotcha.

I honestly can't remember. Disk 4 was mostly the castle and time travel bullshit, while 3 had that utopian city and the Lunar Cry.

It was disc 3 before going to the future city and the shitty romance kicking into overdrive

>greatest pleb filter
>worst ff

user you're baiting aren't you

By the time you tell Maester Mika that Seymour is an unsent and he responds with "what of it" and reveals that he is in the same boots I knew the entire thing was a scam. I think the game hints that there is something very wrong about the faith in Yevon from the start with various pauses and the sacrifice reveal, naturally progressing into Mika and then Yunalesca that by the time you arrive to him it's more of a this makes sense than gotcha.

Also I don't believe Yu Yevon is the big bad. He is behind the plot. But by the time you get to him he is long gone and only a fiend with basic instinct of survival is around to repeat the cycle, which is very fitting to the entire spiral of death theme. I wonder if Yevon was losing his humanity with every new Sin slowly but surely to a tragic end.

Did you foget 13 existed? and the story made absolutely no sense by itself?

Do ya got a loicense for that item, m8?

There are only a few good FF games.
FF1
FF11
FF12

every other FF is shit, and these 3 games have in common the reason why all the other FF's are shit. Would be 4 if FF14 wasn't soulless aids.

If you honesty think that when II, X-2, XIII and XV exist, you are an idiot. At least XII has a semblance to an FF game.

best monumental waste of time and effort and dumping a perfectly fine-ass Matsuno work into the proverbial trash

FF series' worth died with this game

>Worst FF
>anything but FF2
it's only redeeming feature is being the first FF with chocobos

Also the ingame wiki makes it even worse and more nonsensical which is an achievement if you think about it.

>disc 4
She was revealed in disc after you the garden battle at the end of disc 2
The revelation fits in with the mold with tidbits side characters throw out and things that you're required to read. Tidbits that have a logical way of being read but in actuality means another.

But it becomes a little bit more... Confusing when NORG talks about shit.
>NORG: Bushurururu...NOW-I-UNDERSTAND. CID-AND-EDEA-ARE-TRYING-TO-TAKE GARDEN-AWAY-FROM-ME. YOU'RE-ONE OF-CID'S-FOLLOWERS-AREN'T-YOU!? PREPARE-TO-DIE!

He's the person who the plot revolves around but the antagonist never stops being Sin. For all intents and purposes, Yu Yevon IS Sin. Also to answer that question about his humanity. That was flat out shattered when he bonded with Sin. His mind couldn't take it and immediately broke forever. This is why the first thing Sin destroys is Zanarkand. That was never supposed to be the case. The main point is to show that Yu Yevon as an existence is way way out there. There's no foreshadowing at all again intentional.

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>lightning actually has some mega time machine
>lightning isn't actually lightning but a clone

that shit goes fucking kingdom hearts level of nigga what the fuck

Wrong, the Occuria had dominated human history since the beginning. What made Raithwall special was that he was a smart and capable guy, unlike the rest of their chosen ones.

And the convoluted made-up terminology just made it even worse.
>Oh no! The Fal'Cie turned us into L'Cie! Gotta complete our focus or we'll turn into C'ie'th!

If you can't understand the simple story of FF13 then you aren't really bright, user.

XIII is objectively the worst, XV is a close second, you know im right

So we all can come to the conclusion that OP is retarded and 12 is one of the best goddamn Final Fantasy games out there?

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XII is bad for sure, and XIII and XV are irredeemable, but anyone who doesn't say FF II is the worst clearly hasn't played it.

You're wrong. Even with it being on rails for 66% of it, XIII is more challenging than XV

>Living long enough to see the nostalgic kids praise this game

Same reason why KH II is now considered the best KH in the franchise now.

>Same reason why KH II is now considered the best KH in the franchise now.

except it's been considered the best shortly after it came out

Maybe they praise it because... It's good? And they're right about that.

If you can't understand the simple difference between nonsensical and misunderstood you aren't really bright, user.

I can at least agree on Balthier being handsome

12 was a fantastic game with superlative storytelling. We even got an angle (common for Ivalice games, but uncommon literally anywhere else) of our heroes being wiped from history; not that their actions weren't important in influencing the world, but that it's better the world doesn't know of them.

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>The criticism against ff12 isn't that it lacks world-shaving shenanigans (although it does devolve into that, so your argument makes no sense), its that the story is underdeveloped. The cast has no chemistry with each oher and barely even talk t to each other.
Bingo. XII has an amazing world, worldbuilding, and some very interesting characters and storylines, except all that takes place half a world away, leaving you stuck with a bunch of hollow puppets that only exist to deliver exposition.

It's pretty telling that even Dissidia NT, which was written by monkeys, presents a more compelling interaction between Noctis and Vayne than Ashe/Vaan get with their antagonist in the entirety of FFXII.
>Dissidia: Noctis and Vayne talk tyrannical gods, duty to their people, and the chains of leadership
>Ashe in XII: I'm simply myself and I want to be free lel

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That was the case when 2 came out. It wasn't until youtube analyzers that KH1 was considered the best one. In particular, both the opening and the finale was praised globally. About the only complaints I remember in the many many websites and forums I went too was that proud mode was a bit easy

To even claim otherwise is some revisionist shit.

The biggest issue is that the grid system is poorly thought out.

>I~V are bad
>but VI is good
???

The classics are all pretty good, V is easily the best Final Fantasy. VI tried to hard to be V but with a bunch of characters instead of jobs. If your list places V near the bottom and VI near the top then you clearly played VI when you were younger and either skipped V or revisited it when you were older.

XV adnd XIII are good.

II sucks. X sucks. And XII sucks the most.

Basch is hotter

>13, 15, Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus
Why? They have a good gameplay.

I think the main antagonist is Jecht and Tidus' battle with an alcoholic father who always overshadowed his own stardom, finally coming to terms with him, accepting the sacrifice of his father and abandoning his own ego. Yu Yevon is long dead, which you've said yourself by using different words.

>nonsensical
Not that user? But how? I would think the complaint for the story would be that Barts plan is extremely convoluted. Obtuse though those rules may be, it's pretty grounded in it's own world with its own rules.

>VIII below XV
What the shit

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You mean second best FF?
Because you posted the second best FF by mistake.

1. VIII
2. IX
3. X
4. XV
5. IV

My top 5 favourite ones :)

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You do not understand the point or story of FFXII.
Ashe didn't seek to be the Dynast-Queen. She fell victim to Occuria planning for wanting revenge for her fiance's death and let it consume her in a quest for power to enact that revenge. Only the most important humans of history were Occuria pawns; Ashe escaped this (and it's thanks to Vaan).

The story is EXTREMELY well written and produced. You just don't like it. Which is fine, you don't have to like every drama ever written.

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Final fantasy have better story then real life history.

9, 12, and tactics are the best
if you could mix the level of quality in story/characters of 9, battle and appearance of tactics, and world/exploration/music of 12 (they all had good music though), you'd have the perfect FF
the worst that I've played is hard to pin down, but I didn't like 4, 5, 6, or 13 at all

I don't know if it's the worst, but I certainly couldn't enjoy it.

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>15
>good gameplay

IS GOOD?

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13 is alright.

Jecht isn't the antagonist either. You fight "Braska's Final Aeon" but Jecht himself isn't a bad guy. He's as malevolent as Sin is and the story was never about tidus and Jecht, but the team against Sin.
The point is that Yu Yevon is the cog from which the world turns. It's not the case that you could omit him and get the same story, you can't. Even with the entity called "sin" that exists, the function that is Yu Yevon has to exist in order to perpetuate the cycle that the game revolves around.

If that's a bit abstract: Yu Yevon IS Sin. Yu Yevon as an identity is 100% synonymous with Sin. And Sin remains the antagonist from game start to game finish.

Ah and Jecht wasn't an alcoholic father. Tidus has issues with him because he monopolized his mother's attention and affection. But in the only flashback we see of him, he's the one who told her to go tend to him. His mother was awful and when Jecht "died" she just flat out gave up on living. In reference to stardom. Tidus was never a star until well after Jecht vanished. By the time he disappeared Tidus was 7.

youtube.com/watch?v=y_Dgj83Q-50
Real life just, Generator of worlds. Can be sucks can be good, but often it suck.

X, XIII and XV are worse.

>I play games that play themselves
Definitely best one

>Turn based combat

Makes no sense

Wrong question you asked.
you should have asked best FF and there are non they all are bad.

>Hold O to win
Makes no sense

XV's isn't turn based.

It's supposed to be an action RPG but got watered down and pandered to casuals because the director sucks

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It's the "new game" condition.
You'll recall that Lightning was the favorite female for quite some time when the 13s were happening.

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More realistic than anything.

Realism isn't relevant to fun. It neither helps nor hurts.

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Seems reasonable.

Why is Barthandelus trying to kill them if he needs them to achieve his goals?

You two are fucking kidding me, right? Were you on internet gaming forums when the game came out in 2006? It had its fans, but there was A LOT of bitching about how the Disney worlds were filler and how the level design went down the shitter.

>Jecht wasn't an alcoholic father
Yeah he was, he was a drunk and a bad father and he came to realize that in Spira and dealt with it like a man.
His character arc was even fuller than Tidus', who was pretty justified in being bitter and got over it pretty quickly once he learned how much Jecht had changed.

FF10 (people only "like" 10 because it was a zoomer's first)

FF13

The worst FFs for gameplay are FF2 and FFXV

Still no need to wait enemy for attack. Also no dodging and level gap are serious trouble.

>Worst FF

Anyone who answers something else than FF2 doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

>Were you on internet gaming forums when the game came out in 2006?
Yes. And I'm still part of the community at KH insider. Which is still alive
You're trying to revise history to the wrong audience, user.

No, user. Ashe goes from a self-centered, ignorant idiot thirsting for revenge to a self-centered ignorant idiot thirsting for some nebulous "freedom". She's never shown contemplating the impact her actions have on the world, she has no political plans, and no understanding of anything substantial, as far as we can tell. Her "muh freedom" declaration is a pile of nonsense, because she never really knew what she was doing anyway. It was other people who rid the world of the Occuria, too.

I know and see all the points you're making. I'm not that user, but I need to point out
>Jecht wasn't an alcoholic
He was. We saw, in that flashback you mentioned, that his dad cared for him (and monopolized his mother's attention), but at all other points in the game were are made aware Jecht wants a drink, is drinking, is drunk, is sobering up. He's Zanarkand's idol and while he was a selfish partying drunk then, it took time to recover from that in Spira's future he was drawn into.

I think the misconception about drunkenness is that it makes you a bad person or entirely neglectful. Not true; being high off of unnatural chemicals for the human body has a variety of different effects, including merely alcohol for a person.

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>Still no need to wait enemy for attack.
You've clearly never played a good turn based RPG...

Retarded graphic.

>both the opening and the finale was praised globally

Bull fucking shit. I liked the opening, but there were MASSIVE amounts of complaints about how long and boring the opening was. I specifically remember complaints about

>Cutscene
>Cutscene
>Cutscene
>Walk towards friends
>Cutscene

Ah, you're right, anons. It looks like I'm way too forgetful these days.

Turn based combat is the past. New turn based based combat is the future.

>Japan
Nipland has always liked Lightning, that has nothing to do with it.

You're just delusional then. I remember the bitching about it. I remember the complaints of the level design and fucking nothing happening in the story the most because they're what bothered me the most and years later I wondered why the hell I didn't hear about them anymore when I heard complaints toward KH II. Though I guess looking at the rest of the series, people just got so used to those aspects that they forgot about them until KH III somehow reminded them that both of those aspects are awful past the first game.

>You're just delusional then.
Feel free to post any outgoing threads with people that agree to this opinion en masse. These forums still exist.

Those don't exist. Only SRPGs have genuinely good turn-based combat; otherwise it's just there to waste your time and ruin exploration.

>Draw system convoluted broken

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12 is the best one.

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They liked her more than Yuna in 2013. They liked her less than Yuna in 2018.

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She's barely not-a-teen during the "hidden pages of history" Marquis Ondore was relating in his memoirs and was literally just beginning to enjoy her honeymoon. Of course she had no plans. Final Fantasy XII was not about Ashe's plans to rule Dalmasca, conquer Archadia, control Ivalice, and free the sentient beings of the planet from manipulations of the un-seen Occurian force. That was not the point.

The problem is, you WANT that to be the point.

It isn't. And, because it isn't, that is to say what YOU wanted the story to be about, you don't like it.
Fair enough.
It is still an EXCELLENT game and brilliantly produced in all aspects, especially writing.

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Valkyrie profile 2 has a good turn based combat.

Bravely Default exists, user

I understand what are you saying, it's not too abstract, it's just that I disagree with you. The journey was a personal take from Tidus' point of view as a stranger in a strange land and Tidus' personal demons lied in his own father. Jecht was an abusive alcoholic who was never around and didn't know how to handle young Tidus even though he loved him. He kept drinking in Spira until he killed a shoopuf and slowly opened to Tidus through recordings and Auron who he made promise to find a way and keep an eye out for his son. Interestingly as the game opens with narration voice of Tidus, it is calm and mature while the in game Tidus is cheerful and as the game progresses and Tidus faces the reality of his relationship with Jecht and the death in Spira the voice slowly changes into the narrative voice until they merge into one.

That's fine user. You're probably right. Since I clearly forgot a detail I think I might be misremembered on the whole thing. Thanks for being amicable.

This is the first good list I've seen though my personal favorites are 7, 8, 9 and 10.

>These forums still exist.

What does the forums existing have to do with opinion of the game 13 years ago? But if you've really been a fan that long and somehow don't remember the fair amount of criticism it's gotten, you won't accept anything, you'll just write it off as "Oh the occasional hater changes nothing." I just don't know why people are so insecure as to have to try to revise history, just like the people who say Nomura was never hated in those days.

most of the Grandia series as a whole is great.

I want to fuck this fish

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I wish to be a zoomer.

>Those don't exist. Only SRPGs have genuinely good turn-based combat
Having better turn-based combat than jrpgs isn't exactly hard.

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>What does the forums existing have to do with opinion of the game 13 years ago?
I'm asking you to cite your sources. If you've claimed that people found it inferior to 1 then cite your proof. And if you're going to take a self defeating attitude than you're only showing either an unwillingness to put forth the effort to defend your point or you know it's flawed to begin with.

I'll assume the former as we're all adults here. And that's fine because I'm like that sometimes. But in the future I'd say to avoid stating things like that as fact if you don't want to accept the burden of proof.

ah, the WRPG shitposter has arrived

VIII is the clear-cut best and XV the clear-cut worst.

You seem to have accidentally put one to many I's there

The fact that the throne and all the succces and accomplishments are handed to a character that doesn't earn them in any way is excellent writing to you? XII presents us with a laundry list of problems and difficulties that exist in their world and then just goes "lol jk" and brushes them under the carpet to deliver an obligatory happy ending. That's terrible writing.

>Lightning on top
>Eiko near the bottom
>Fran doesn't even fucking place
I can't tell what these idiots want. If they cared about personality, Eiko would be near the top, but if they're really just voting with they're sucks, then where the fuck is Fran? Aeris is also missing, instead there's some literal who from the same game. I don't remember a character named Aerith, do you? Also, why is Terra referred to as Tina? As far as I know, her full name is Terra Branford. Is Tina her middle name?

>an ensemble piece with multiple characters
Lord of the Rings was an ensemble piece because it had multiple characters AND the plot diverged to accommodate. Literally everything with more than 1 character is an ensemble piece by your logic

>SHE WILL NOT BE FORGOTTEN

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FF12 has worse level design than Dark Cloud 2 and Dark Cloud 2 is randomly generated. Definitely the worst FF. Even with fast forward it's boring as fuck.

I'll remind you that 13 in Japan didn't have to go through our... stellar "localization" and so their Lightning was far different from the dickhead we ended up with in 13 and LR.

Yoshida's style is attractive.

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Tina is her name in the Japanese version, dumbass. Which you should be using, since you're whining about Aerith too.

Untrue. She's just as hollow and unlikeable in the Nip version.

t. Nip speaker

>fran bending over as if she's farting
>her hair looks like it's a cloud of gas coming out of her ass

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What about X-2? Or are we only counting mainline games?

My nigger. Dissidia 012 is amazing, and I wish I could find my copy of Vagrant Story. Can't DL it anywhere as far as I know.

5 and 15 are the worst

With a 2000 wordcount post limit and my lack of desire to argue with an internet stranger, let alone one found on Yea Forums, I'm only going to repeat that this game wasn't meant for someone like you, who wants a blockbuster hero. No Ivalice game is.

You are free to dislike the idea a game doesn't always pander to your established whims, but your opinion does not justify opinionated claim as being immutable.

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Oh is she? I always heard otherwise by a nip speaking friend of mine that our version of 13 and LR was complete dogshit. LR being so bad that there's a fan project specifically to retranslate that game. I wonder how that things going these days

>Vagrant Story
when will this meme end? Itsuno walked back his old claim that it's in any way connected to Ivalice.

If we included X-2 it would be at the very least above X, wherever it may fall.

>bending over as if she's farting
user the brap meme really fucked you up

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>Final Fantasy XII, Vagrant Story, Final Fantasy Tactics
Are same worlds.
How?

I don't know any Aerith, and I have played ff7 MANY times. Got the ps4 version and loved it. Also, thanks for being rude when I literally didn't know why people were calling Terra "Tina." I just call people what they're called, not what people might call them in some other freaking country.

Might as well say Dissidia, neither are FF games.

>this game wasn't meant for someone like you, who wants a blockbuster hero. No Ivalice game is.
Lolwut? Ivalice games, or rather Matsuno games in general, all follow typical jrpg tropes and cliches like 'the church is evil' and ancient god shenanigans.

Matsuno has made four major games, Tactics Ogre, FFt, Vagrant Story and FF12, all of which have the exact same story (and a poor one at that):

>In a medieval fantasy world, a political scheme stirs...no wait, the politics are just a smoke screen for the real plot, which is about a sinister organization wanting to resurrect an evil god for their own personal gain and to rule the world. He's a fucking hack.

Dude's a fucking hack.

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From what i understand they all occur at different points in time.

>I'm only going to repeat that this game wasn't meant for someone like you, who wants a blockbuster hero.
No, dumbass. I want a game that actually faces the themes it opens instead of throwing up its hands and asspulling a generic Holywood ending that has no place in the world it had established and running away from all the moral complexity.

FF12 is the starting point
FF Tactics occurs some hundreds of years after
Vagrant Story is thousands of years after, still

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Except none of that happens? Ashe doesn't take the credit for any of the successes or accomplishments, she just takes the throne which is literally hers by birthright now that Dalmasca is once again a sovereign state - Something that she certainly helped bring about, even if it can't solely be attributed to her.

And the problems haven't just magically vanished by the end, either. Nabradia is still a dead state. Archades is still in a political upheaval since the previous emperor literally had the entire senate murdered and then died himself, leaving his teenage brother as autocrat. The cold war with Rozarria isn't resolved or de-escalated in any way, and is in fact in a worse scenario than when it started since 3/5ths of the Archadian military leadership is outright fucking dead and one is actually an imposter.

XII's ending is happy insofar as the main characters walk away having achieved their personal goals (Except Basche, who gets to deal with pretending to be the man he hates, serving an empire that destroyed his homeland, while his true identity is regarded as a traitor by 99% of the population).

How to write 2000 word post and not be sound boring?

Good judge of quality user.

Cool.
What are Nova Crystallis worlds?

>you will never a cute nympho rabbit gf

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Reminder that Basch was supposed to be the main protagonist, but they shoehorned in a couple of irrelevant nobodies because japs are cucks.

not him but
>matsuno is a hack
Never thought somebody would stoop this low to prove a point to win an argument on a korean basket weaving website.
What's more your short hand doesn't even apply to any game other than TO, which I imagine is the only game you ever played. Unless you think Dorgalua was a god and not some dude who turned into an ogre.

NTR, the fetish of the supreme intellectual

t. brainlet

>What claim does Gerun have in History's reins, seated in throne immortal, rent from Time?
If you don't understand the two meanings of this statement you haven't understood the Truth behind 12's Lore

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>crisis core
>shit
Garbage taste confirmed

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From what I've seen, the "bad translation" meme usually comes from people who don't really understand context, nuances and dialogue flow. Japanese Lightning is dull as a dishwasher - she's still just as violent and moody (obviously), except her dialogue is also void of any sarcasm, which is replaced by generic "tough" talk.

Neither of them is interesting, but I honestly prefer the Eng version.

I'll take your word on it, user. After all I don't understand the language and was just reaching for reasons why Lightning is still considered one of the top heroines.

>twink fagget nips can't self insert as the strong chad and have to literally add at the last second some teen cock slurper ruining the story
feels preety bad man

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chan.sankakucomplex.com/post/show/4149659
chan.sankakucomplex.com/post/show/4149663
chan.sankakucomplex.com/post/show/4149672

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It does exactly what you're requesting. It just doesn't follow the Hollywood, California method of writing to achieve it.

The reverse of your statement as that this ISN'T Hollywood storytelling or ending. It is UNcommon. Tropes exists, you bet! They just aren't the tropes you seem to want, on the characters you want them to, at the times you want them to happen. You got a story that was not
>call to action
>act
>win
>utopia gained!
and you thought, "I don't remember, I'm not confirmed, I'm not affirmed, the game ends without the writers showing me my troupe of characters are the greatest thing ever (and me, by extension, for playing as them)!" This reflects more of you than the game, and in fact doesn't address the writing or storytelling of the game at all. Just that you didn't like it.

FFXII is a beautiful game. The storytelling requires investment and the writing is superlative, let alone video gaming aspects of the product.

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>What is II, XIII and Lightning Returns

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When I first played it, I appreciated the new style of battles. Then it got boring about 25% into the game. I used a gameshark and gil tossed my way to the end, which I couldn't remember until I replayed it last year.

It was actually a Star Wars rip off. It took me 11 and a half years to realize that.

It's an interesting idea though, but I think they should have made up their mind if they wanted an action RPG or a tactical turn based RPG like Divinity: Original Sin. I think it would have fared better if it went full tactical mode.

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>Lightning Returns
A damn good game. With a damn awful plot that doesn't take away from the fact that it's a fantastic play.

FF13 was, good for starting.

hell no that shit was horrible. And that comes from someone who kinda enjoyed XIII and XIII-2

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>hell no that shit was horrible.
Alright. Why? What about it's gameplay was bad?

>they should have made up their mind if they wanted an action RPG or a tactical turn based RPG

They made up their minds. They made the system based around an auto attack while also allowing you to customize party a.i. Plenty of other RPGs have done this but when plebeians play 12 they act like it's so terrible.

>Plenty of other RPGs have done this
Such as?

Am I allowed to like World of Final Fantasy?

Iunno man. I was never a fan of FF games. After 15 I was like okay if 15 is the worst one to people and such an utter disappointment then I'll try the others.

I tried X2 cuz cute girls.... My god.... What a fucking tedious pile of piiiisssss I can't believe that FF fans have ssuuuuch shit taste in video games. That they are content playing such boring fucking mindless games.

Ffxv combat was just spam F and use potions

Ffx2 is just spam darkness and heal with mega potions... Jesus Christ. That desert boss I was just pressing E on keyboard and looking at a movie.... This is what people like? They're happy playing some boring gay shit like this? I watched my roommate in college play 13 and it just played itself he just SAT there looking at the screen like a mindless fucking retard. FF is so trash and people who like this garbage are fucking brainlet retards.

You are because WoFF is good. Even Nomura's batshit capabilities are somewhat subdued

Dragon Age Origins, World of Warcraft, Xenoblade Chronicles 1, etc.

Because that's when they fucked up the series by deviating from the classic turn based FF games

VENAT IS A HERETIC

You have no taste, dude.

>turn based
The series hadn't been turn based for a long as time. 12 is ADB. Which is ATB with the caveat that you can move and respond more dynamically.

>Dragon Age Origins
False. In Dragon Age you can control all party members simultaneously, micromanage their movements and manually position area of effect abilities. There are gambits, but they are by no means necessary to play the game.
You can't do what I described above in FF12 because the interface is too limited. You simply can't control multiple party members simultaneously. Instead, you can only take control of one party member at a time, like you would in an action-RPG.

> World of Warcraft
This is a single-character MMO. How is this simular to FF12, a party-based RPG?

>Xenoblade Chronicles 1
I guess this is the closest comparison, yes.

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FFTA-3 when?

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I was referring to how the game revolves around an auto attack system. Every game I listed does this. You're right about Dragon Age Origins have more control over your characters but guess what. You can only micromanage all of their movements at once on the PC version. On consoles it plays just like FF12. This comes from the problem of 12 originally being a console exclusive game that has an up close camera. Besides in FF12, you're expected switch around your control of your other party members in the middle of combat.

Not him but
>In Dragon Age you can control all party members simultaneously
with pause. DA is RTwP
Pause is not "simultaneous' it's pause. If you played that shit on the ps3 you would have a more shit time micromanaging in it than you would in 12.

I thought he was just the character designer on it though?

It's X. X killed off the classic series and the golden age.

So you're right. The writer and director was Chiba. No clue why I thought Nomura had anything to do with the plot. Anyways I like the game a lot and bought it twice. I really love the music and the ATB is a return to form. The shortcuts as well offer a lot of speed to deal with the ATB as well since it doesn't pause during actions and it's the only way to keep up with the faster pace of battles on active.

Terrific game.

and gave freedom to mankind
so gtfo with your gay shit, Gerun

>with pause.
So? FF12 also pauses when you're choosing commands. But you can't move multiple party members simultaneously like you can in Dragon Age. Instead, to move a character, you have to take control of them and move them in real-time like you would in an action-RPG.

That, and other limitations of FF12, make the comparison to Dragon Age; Origins flawed,

I think people just associate his art with him making the game as well. Happens with TWEWY all the time. Either way I'm definitely holding out for a sequel sometime soon. I think they could do great things with it.

>tfw Vayne wasn't the protagonist
He literally did nothing wrong

>golden age
If you say so. IX had a world map and despite that was as linear as X. It's also the only game in the series without a bonus dungeon. All extra bosses are literal one offs in various single zone areas. Sans Ozma which requires you to do hot and cold.

What the fuck is up with the bloom in this game.

>IX had a world map and despite that was as linear as X.
A jrpg-style overworld doesn't actually make a game less linear, in fact it likely makes it MORE linear than a game without an overworld. In FF games, and almost every jrpg in general, the overworld is shaped like a corridor, conveniently barricaded by mountains and shorelines (and the sea itself is barricaded by reefs, so the game is still linear even when you get a ship) so that you can only proceed down one path, which is inevitably the next plot-critical location, which is typically nestled in some environmental chokepoint so that you HAVE to pass through it and progress the plot before you can access the next part of the world. This leads to very unnatural world design and means there is pretty much no exploration in these games, until you unlock the airship near the end of the game, at which point you've already been forced to traverse the majority of the world in a linear fashion.

you mean Venat.
Vayne just was the means to give freedom to humes(and a true friend for Venat)
>ywn never have an Occuria merge with you because it doesn't want to live without you
pic related

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The main point was that this was more of a step backward. After 2 almost every game had one or more alternative locations to explore with 3 topping all of it out. So while the plot progression was linear the player pathing was not. Even base 1 gave you the "freedom" to choose one dungeon or another.

Anyways that's all fluff. I agree with you is what i'm meaning to say.

He did a bunch of shit wrong, like letting Cid do what he pleased and directly leading to Nabudis becoming a mist-blighted hellhole full of monsters.

Noble intent does not a hero make.

13

13 was a good game.

From a technical standpoint. It fails on all other fronts.

The combat was great.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Please elaborate.

It absolutely was not.

Are you a PC gamer?

Is it now

No. I started the series with FF1. FF13 has genuinely great combat, it just has an absurdly long tutorial.

It's one of the few FFs with useful buffs debuffs status. It has mechanical complexity timing paradigm shifts to get free turns. It's a lot of fun in post game.

>FF13 has genuinely great combat,
You seriously need to play more games. It isn't healthy for you to think FF13's combat was in any way good. I played FF13 and 13-2 and the combat is fucking terrible.
> It has mechanical complexity timing paradigm shifts to get free turns. I
I keep seeing this but I completed both games postgames to try and understand it and all I can say is you've fucked with me and tricked me into playing a dogshit series.

>The combat was great.

>Party members act by themselves, the only input you have is selecting paradigms
>At the same time, you can't even play it as an action-RPG because it still uses a menu system while not providing any control over party members (thus defeating the whole point of using menus)
>It's almost impossible to actually lose, since there are no resources to manage or hard decision to make (e.g. medic never runs out of healing spells, you can spam them infinitely)
FFXIII's combat system is is utter garbage

And yes, the combat in most FF games was never good, but that doesn't make FF13 any better.

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By FF standards at least, yes the combat is quite good. By comparison in X you play simon says early game and mash quick hit late game.
By series standards I meant, I would hope that would be obvious.

SaGa has the best JRPG combat for the record. Though Star Ocean used to be amazing and VP was great.

What the fuck is some retard who uses a pepe image doing with a sensible post?

Doesn't make sense since 13-2 was good gameplay.

you can tell everything you need to know about someone's taste in video games by where they rate FFX-2

>By FF standards at least,
Absolutely not. 10, FF7, even fucking FF15 are all MILES better than FF13. 13 is the lowest point of the franchise.
>By comparison in X you play simon says early game and mash quick hit late game.
And in FF13 all you do is change paradigms and hit auto-battle. What's your fucking point?

How?

Hahaha it doesn't make sence.

he's a frogposter, that automatically negates anything his post says

>13 is the lowest point of the franchise.
Not him but just because almost all aspects of a game is bad, it doesn't mean every aspect of the game is bad. The combat is good.
13 has the most dynamic combat: There are a larger number of conditions that flat out change how you approach the battle. An event that happens in only a quarter of the series.
The most active post preparation stage combat
The most useful status ailments that are applicable on the most enemies
The most challenging boss fights sans it's sequels.
And if we're going to count everything; the biggest diversity of abilities available in any given fight.

>Auto-battle
Auto battle stops being optimal when you land at bart 1. The Ai will always do stupid shit when you're controlling it like use buffs/debuffs out of order and fuck up heal priority or do oddball shit like physical attack when you need to do double element.

The problems with 13 are always it's pacing, story, characters that aren't Sazh (ironically), the boss, the datalog, the lack of unique model superbosses, and the summons. The combat itself is the most engaging in the series. after 20 hours.

>The combat is good.
The combat is one of the worst aspects. You cannot change my mind about this, I'm sorry. Out of the hundreds of JRPGs I've played, FF13 has the worst.

Everyone here is excited for FF12-2, right?

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FFVIII is the most artistic and content-dense. IV has the best main character. VII is the easiest to play through multiple times. VI has the most characters and unique encounters. V and X-2 have the best job systems. X has the best battle system. IX has the best first playthrough. XII has the best setting. XIII never even got my money and XV was a waste of time for everyone except the shareholders. Never played the MMOs desu but I figure XII is representative enough. I-III are cute. As for spinoffs, Crystal Chronicles/Tactics/Dissidia 1 are all equally special in my eyes.

I cant fully agree but I can completely understand and think your a good guy user.

>Auto battle stops being optimal when you land at bart 1.
A blatant lie. I never once had a problem with any battle, post-game or main game, by spamming auto-battle. The most I've had to adjust is use poison on barthandelus and the final boss. That was it. Get your lying faggotry out of here, nobody believes you.

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Yes, we would

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>FF12-2
I wish that was real...

>most artistic and content-dense
how do you figure?

I assure you, user, it will be.

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>post-game
This is a flat out lie. You outright can't kill Vercingetorix with auto battle due to a combination of it's high damage, buff despelling, and exceedingly high chain gauge. Leader AI is too retarded and you need to control a debuffer. Don't call somebody a liar and then blatantly lie, user.

Anyways I didn't say you can't beat the game. I said that it's not optimal. You can beat almost every encounter in the game bar 6 with auto battle. It'll be extremely long and shitty but you can do it without problems. You'll take forever, get 1 star, and have no fun, but you can do it.

Worst than Emerald dragon? Guardian Crusade? Ephemeral Phantasia? Mystic Quest? I've also played 100s of JRPGs. Pre 6th gen there's very few JRPGs I haven't played. The number is close to two dozen. which on a completely unrelated note I had just found my cases for both Mana Khemia and Unlimited Saga. And I've played far far far fucking worse than 13. Which itself is pretty alright as far as FFs go.

But hey if you say so, user. I won't take up anymore of your time.

N-no
You can't make me hope that easily

That would involve Square hiring Matsuno again. Which isn't going to happen because they're still pinching pennies like misers. Even if they did the finished product would be released too early like the upcoming Left Alive.

Vaan was added SUPER EARLY into the development, do you really think that they didn't account for him when they had all these years making him ?

Games & Movies are changed all the time during production, this doesn't make them less of a game/movie

the worst thing is ZA is fucking baby tier easy mode and defeats the point of the job system with letting you have all boards on one playthrough. IZJS at least retained some difficulty and the reworked chests/enemies were new at the time if obscure.
It's ridiculous that vanilla XII offers the most challenge despite the game encouraging you to run 3 sword/shields for most of its length

Vaan literally addresses why he followed the party and why he is distant from the princess because it's politics that only brought the death of his brother

This is what happens to the mind of regular Yea Forumstards when the story isn't spoonfed to you like FF10

Hear me out guys.

Nintendo and ISIS should hire Matsuno for the next Fire Emblem.
It would be slavs genociding dirty balkan roma kino like TO:LUCT. Like FE4 except not on SNES and with a second generation where war erupts again, and you use the child units and some of the older ones that survived.
Including morally grey ending, chaos ending and law ending.

Imagine.

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considering that there are some scenes near the end where he's not even involved, yes I think he was added at the last second

She's self-centered and an idiot but the whole story is about her understanding that her actions have an impact and how she can use her power in a way that doesn't harm others.

She learns to understand what freedom means and how it's about more than seeking revenge for the sake of her tragedy in life but to help her people in a selfless manner. She takes time to understand that because she is constantly coerced by higher powers to go for the route of violence (Occuria, Cid, Gabranth, Vayne) but she literally walks out of all of their traps one by one and comes out stronger as a result.

Ashe is flawed but this is an integral part of her character. She's a stupid brat who acts intelligent, and then grows to actually look the part and act the part.

Anyone?

>vanilla XII offers the most challenge
It doesn't. Or rather, it won't if you had at least a high school level of education when it released. I was underleveled for everything up to Yiazmat and the only fight that gave me troubles in all of the "post" game was Zodiark, and only because of instant death. Which I bulldozed through as well

Why? Because of full health phoenix downs that every single member of your party could slot through minimum board investment and a single accessory. IZJS removes the availability of this and makes team building actually matter. ZA is indeed retard baby easy and on top of being literally easier to its core is even easier due to the double board system giving you stats the game quite literally can't keep up with.

>2
barebones story, level up system isnt good(its bearable on the gba/psp ports imo) first game to spam recolors of enemies
>8
good game for first 1/3 with a shitty equipment system(junctioning) that eats into the magic system and the world scaling with your level was a poor choice. Second half of the plot is pretty boring
>13
Worst characters in the series(although I didnt mind sazh even though his initial design made me think Id hate him) 99% of game is a hallway, combat is riddled with flaws(only control 1 character, game over if they die, being built on just changing paradigms and hitting auto battle 99% of the time) the stagger system was interesting though and similiar to ffx-2's "combo" system
>15
bad action game with a mismanaged story. Interesting lore and world that isnt done good service. World is quite empty of meaningful content instead youre given tons of fetch quests and go to location kill thing hunts
Has some nice character interactions between main cast(although not the love interest) All the important characters stick out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the people in the world who look like they are from kansas or montana.

No 12 is pretty decent actually, even if vaan and penelo are boring

It's literally the best mainline FF
and FFT is the best FF spin-off

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Other FF's aren't action games user.
You cant beat 0 other final fantasies by using ''Attack'' command only.

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wrong pic

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this is the best thing I've seen in weeks

>there's a timeline where Square didn't lose the source code to VIII
>or at least didn't admit to losing the source code to VIII
Wonder what that crazy world is like

Have a bigger version.

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>all I can see is
>a desert rat
>a princess
>a charismatic pirate and his furry companion
>it ends with a "ship" battle with laser-fire against a battleship fortress
IT'S STAR WARS LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

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>Sakaguchi recognized Matsuno was a genius among geniuses to the point he personally asked him to join Square AND let him use his own universe in a mainline Final Fantasy

Sakaguchi knew that man wasn't going to become a failure like Nomura

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I will take a bigger version, thanks

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>story centering about ashe where vaan infused his perspective as a prole in 90% of the story and she has to make the biggest choices in her life with this knowledge in mind in the critical final stretch of the game
>"b-but where's vaan?? why was he added into the game??????????"

ff10 brainlets are really irredeemable

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No, 15 is the worst one.

>9, 12, and tactics are the best
This.

I find it funny that you automatically assume that the guy is a FF10 fanboy

KEK

me on the background

so... I'm having an itch to play a good JRPG after the disappointing Persona 5 and Final Fantasy XV

is XII Zodiac Age objectively good? I'm interested in its combat system, it looks kinda unique and fun

It's free to emulate so just badda bing badda boom

Why real life isn't like final fantasy. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Square Enix just try to make a new game in time. Gap between final fantasies are 4 years. Life can not be bearable without proper indulgating.

Sounds like you probably wouldn't like it

why? I'm interested on the game because the combat looks interesting and fun, I know it has faults like Vaan being a trash protag

my toaster can't emulate PS2, also I'm interested in the remaster since apparently it fixes a lot of gameplay and mechanics from the original

Tried his best, at work.

Looks like it's your first run, so you should be having all 12 jobs to experience everything. However, doing so is not optimal (not that that min-maxing is that big of a deal outside of NG- mode), so that's up to you.
>Vaan
Shikari needs heavy armour to boost STR (since light armour gives HP, not STR), but he won't be useless without it either, since dagger/ninja blade damage also scales off SPD. You could alternatively give him a mage class for supporting White/Green Magicks.
>Balthier
Time Battlemage kind've sucks imo. Crossbow is shitty, and their only offensive spell is Balance. However, Time Battlemage does offer supportive spells like Haste, heavy armour, and magick lores, so it's good as a second job. Pairing it with a melee class that doesn't have heavy armour would work well, such as Monk and Shikari. Especially Monk since it has Curaja but zero magick lores.
>Fran
Both Red, Black and White mages are fairly "complete" classes on their own and don't really benefit too much from having a second class. Second class would basically only offer item lores and option for physical damage when there's paling. Red Mage has an autism min/max with Burning Bow of Archer, but that's literally when you're 90% done with the game. Go with whatever you want.
>Basch
Knight has white magick, but no magick lores. Give him either a mage class or Bushi.
>Ashe
Machinist might be good to give her some damage outside of Drain, but her primary job is healing, so it doesn't matter too much.
>Penelo
Again, Black Mage is a very complete class. Go with whatever you want.

Thanks bud

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Accessories will give you more SPD for Shikari. The best one is Germinas Boots, which gives like 50. Don't use the Genji Gloves on Shikari, it's less damage overall.

Goddamn the art in this game is so good.

You meant XIII and its sequels you shit.

It really doesnt matter what jobs you give who btw, they're mostly interchangeable. Unless you're minmaxing it's hardly worth stressing over the jobs with each character stats.

For instance, I gave Fran Uhlan simply because she wields Spears with one hand like a badass, and kept Balthier as a machinist despite him being "slower" due to a slightly longer shooting animation. These things are miniscule.

I really want to get into FF more but I have the grinding and shit of the older games. Is there any hope for me? Through rereleases or cheats?

Guy, it doesn't matter. Each character is going to perform the same jobs to about a variation of 4% difference in effectiveness (MAYBE a single level difference, which is to say). It really, really does not matter WHAT CLASS you assign, or build, for any of the characters: you should do whatever you think makes them the coolest, in your mind. You'll regret anything else more.

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I was recommending him based on what classes he already chose, not the base stats of each character. Not that it matters that much either, since the original IZJS had one job and everyone did jsut fine.

I couldn't beat Yiazmat

No they're really not. 10's combat is simon says dogshit early and quick hit late. 7's is really bad for the spam attack to win shit. Try spamming any one move in FF13 and you'll die.

why ya'll hatin on Giza Plains
youtube.com/watch?v=D7J_8IB5i6k

>10's combat is simon says dogshit early
It's literally "Ignore it all, just use Lulu", actually.

The original video of this is amazing

I really do wish they had added some more robust difficulty options along with the Zodiac Age release, because the options that the game gives you for class/party building and gear acquisition could make it really fun if it were just a bit more challenging; instead, you have a ton of options but it's almost pointless to plan things out because the game is extremely easy unless you deliberately skip content and avoid leveling.

I've heard that NG- / 111223 runs are difficult, but not in such a way that lets you use all the tools that the game gives you. Relying on guns for most of your party members to deal reliable damage, for example. If I'm wrong about that let me know.

Since this seems to be a general ff thread how is 15? Ive heard mixed things about it which I assume has to do with it being the newest.

If you have high expectations you'll hate it. If you just go in for a fun camping adventure where you slay monsters then it's fun. It kind of reminded me of FF1 which was my first and I have a lot of nostalgia for.

yeah nah
youtu.be/xZ2rw-VDwfA

>play XI but not XIV
either move XIV up or make XI optional

That song is memorable for all of the wrong reasons.

I would say move 11 and 2 to optional.

FFXII had some problems but I dont think the music was one of them.

I didn't like vanilla FF XII when I first played it at release, but the re-released version is amazing. The series was going in the right direction, but they fucked everything up with XIII.

I physically recoiled from the first few seconds of this before I even placed where it was from

Great track by itself though

The music was straight up the most offensive part, especially knowing it was the same composer as Tactics.

It's okay, but it gets pretty repetitive, both with gameplay and dialogue with da boiz, and the ending in general is just a mess. I played it at launch so I don't know how much they fixed, but there's also some technical issues that annoyed me, like the weird graphical glitches around any body of water

I really don't like it.

>floaty combat that consists of holding down O to attack and Square to dodge
>An obscene amount of time is spent sitting in the car just sitting and waiting
>story is a total mess

Fuck it

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you still remember it tho

>The only thing FFXI has that FFXII does not is the elemental chain gimmick, that no one even used outside of the smallest of situations
Magic bursts and skillchains were important until the later updates broke everything.

It's below average. The launch version was pretty bad (I heard Royal Edition fixes some problems but the game is still overall mediocre but Royal Edition is a $15 DLC upgrade for people who bought it day 1).

Not to mention that the story is incomplete because of cancelled story DLCs

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FF12 doesn't even have a memorable villain and plot. Also who is main character of FF12?

Basch going by early concepts. Balthier is "the leading man" in the sense his profession and history help him guide the party around. Vaan is just the lens for the player to view the world, but ultimately has an impact in typical JRPG fashion.

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I'll correct you on this, at least, by pure knowledge of what a gun DID
>Relying on guns for most of your party members to deal reliable damage
Guns literally ignored defenses. That had low attack power...because they completely bypassed defenses. It was the MOST consistent weapon class you could have. It just didn't hit that hard and found the most value in enemies who scaled far above you, not your own level (or below it).

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XIV is worse in every way compared to XI though. Latter is RPG, the other is just a theme park.

The launch edition was an absolute dumpster fire. I remember the game outright freezing crashing on a few occasions before they rolled out the patches. The DLCs should've been free, the base version of FFXV is outright insulting, MGSV was a more finished game.

Wow, I like that armor design for Basch way more.

That is kind of what I'm saying though; from what I've seen, the low-level challenge leans on guns because it's the only weapon type that lets you punch above your weight. What I'd like is a difficulty adjustment that doesn't shoehorn you into only using guns because it's based around level restrictions.

Have another larger version

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>I remember the game outright freezing crashing on a few occasions before they rolled out the patches.

I remember XV hanging on me once because I used a grenade (magic) to kill Areana and that caused the game to freak out and not progress the story.

Reminds me of this guy

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FFXII is a political fantasy.
Vayne (Archadia) is a morally complex villain who is both easy and hard to find moral fault with.
Cid is a loony, proven sane, then judged a further loony.
The Occuria were manipulators that couldn't seem to directly control, only influence.

Stop talking about early concepts, Balthier or Basch as the lead or even Vaan. For our role, as player beding the PS2 controller in the chair looking at the television screen, Vaan was the lead. For our human brains, Ashe was the star of the words that appeared in those pixels. When you actually consider things, FFXII WAS THE BACKGROUND of Ivalice; they are, in their own context, NOT meant to be known. Not for what they did or thought. And NONE of them claimed that fame.

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Hmmmmmm, surely it has nothing to do with being a fun game

Where can I see more of these early concepts?

Was it Fire magic? If so, the exact same thing happened to me, Aranea dropped to 0 hp and fell over, the music stopped, and then the cutscene or story event just never triggered. It also happened on the first boss in the game, that weird rhinoceros thing -- the cutscene to show it popping up played, and then Noctis was stuck in the ground when it transitioned back to gameplay and everything was just static. The game wasn't completely frozen, but it had clearly failed to load something and I had to shut down and re-open the game.

>Was it Fire magic?

Who knows. It was over 2 years since I did the boss battle.

The worst part of the game hanging at that point was that I had to do the boring and badly designed stealth section AGAIN

On technicals levels, it's pretty easy to say it's not a good game. But for a blind experience it is really fun. Played it at launch, shut myself off from internet reviews and showcases and had a real good time getting the platinum after 150 hours

>"oh I guess we just have to... walk by the guards?"
>every ten seconds there's a cutscene for Ignis pointing out guards, just to make sure you don't accidentally get caught
>but it doesn't matter if you do get caught, just kill all the guards and walk to the next segment

Ivalice was the best universe in FF
The music, world building and aesthetic design all came together to give it a unique personality.
And now we'll never get it back.
That is all.

>>but it doesn't matter if you do get caught

wait, I could of tanked thought that bullshit?

It must be good, Squeenix didn't put it on sale this weekend on Steam

Well people think this because it's not Uematsu.

Especially considering that they're just blips in the grand scheme of Ivalice's history. The only notable thing is that the story might be the genesis of Ivalice's apocalyptic scenario that sent everyone back to the stone age by forsaking the power of the gods.

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