Stealth didn’t fail us as a genre. We failed it. 4 of these 5 series are dead, only Hitman continues...

What the fuck is wrong with dishonored? Shit was fun.

I loved Dishonored, but I’m not sure if we’re getting another

Series got cancelled because 2 didn’t make enough money

SC is like the only true big stealth series left, shut yo mouf. Mark and execute shit is lame but you don't have to use it and it's not even allowed on the higher difficulties of SC Blacklist.
Hitman stealth is different, it's just running / walking around fast and smart and wearing appropriate disguises rather than hiding from sight, climbing like a ninja and using spy gadgets

>MGS
Konami fired Kojima and basically made the IP exclusive to pachinko machines.

>Thief
The most recent game was bad and an incredibly poor spiritual successor to the original series.

>Dishonored
The most recent game was bad and no really cared about the new black female protagonist, even dishonored 2 took far too much attention off Corvo. They had a strong IP and they themselves squandered it an attempt to diversify their gameplay/story.

>Splinter Cell
Isn't dead and while it's had some shitty games released, it has also had some real gems.

I think Splinter Cell and Hitman are the only two IPs out of the five that have any real longevity.

MGS might be dead, but it's also finished. Thief was murdered.

zoomers can't into patience

what about TLOU?

SC can't be 'true stealth' because Theif was around for a half-decade before it and plays exactly like what someone would expect from a "stealth game." SC was built on retarded MGS concepts and while it might have a more serious tone mechanically and story wise, it was still normie horse shit missing the point.

>normie
Leave normalfag. Besides CT is better than any Thief game

That’s survival horror of a sort, not really stealth

>owned by Konami
>owned by Square
>owned by Ubisoft
>owned by Bethesda
wow that didn't take long to find an answer

>being new enough to buy into the only normalfags say normie meme

Way to undermine any point you are trying to make about legitimacy. And I would hope a game that came out a decade later is better than a series that was ritualistically slaughtered by poor fags who can't into simple concepts.

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>and it and plays exactly like what someone would expect from a "stealth game."
yeah, "someone" meaning you.
You can have a true stealth game without it having to be a copy of Thief. I would argue that third person is actually better for stealth games since it lets you see around corners to more easily avoid detection (which means the devs can make the AI harder to sneak past without fucking up the balance)

Yeah man I'm such an outlier that I'd expect a stealth game to be centered around sound and visibility. Man what kind of drugs was I on in the 90s?

>decade later
Nigger Splinter Cell came out only 3 years after Thief and 1 year after Thief 2. You’re a dumb fuck.

You referenced CT you absolute fucking mouth breather

They've been pretty liberal in dropping Splinter Cell references in their games lately, but I do agree that it might not be as likely as we'd like to think it is

Tenchu came out before Thief and was better, Thief didn’t even invent 3D stealth

and Hitman is about to die again due to poor sales

Yeah because Chaos Theory is Splinter Cell perfecting the formula, it was already better than Thief with the first game.

third person stealth games like are centered around sound and visibility too. You just have more visibility and are able to tell things like when your ass is sticking out from the box you are trying to hide behind

This reminds me, what ever happened to that dude that claimed Death Stranding was actually just MGS6 or Chapter 3 to MGSV? Does he still lurk around, or has he finally exiled himself in shame?

>Tenchu was better than theif

As a tenchu fan this is an outright lie but you are still my nigga.

I dont really see what they could do after 2 anyways.

IO is indepedent now so they don’t need to worry about sales as most, hopefully it can at least hit 1m

No one that actually played a stealth game before SC would hold that opinion unless they were specifically looking for tacticool stealth, and even then they would recognize their fetish doesn't apply to the whole genre.

Well they ended the story poorly in DotO. 2 was good but the atmosphere wasn’t as good as 1 and reused the story of the DLC of 1. I’d like another Dishonored but idk what they can do with it now.

Caramel? I think he’s gone.

>implying Yea Forums isn't full of children that htink that simplistically

MGS is done because Kojambles fucked around too much on company money so konami kicked him out. Its a shame too because i think mgs 6, having learned from the mistakes made from having a huge sandbox with not much in it, would be a great game.

Same reason RTS is dead: audiences change. There aren't enough people out there willing to play a slow, methodical game where you can spend 10+ min waiting for a target. At least not to make it "commercially viable." Hitman is all we have left and it's much more geared toward combat and made much easier than its predecessors.

Thankfully, there are still a few opportunities to enjoy real stealth like Mark of the Ninja.

It was more challenging since the lighting system was better, you couldn’t just buy equipment to help, and the AI was smarter, also you couldn’t just leave a body due to alarms.

There isn’t much else that could be done besides playing as The Boss during WW2

Only if you're a fan of a dead genre or are so braindead you exclusively consume AAA schlock. And let's face it, that's what most of Yea Forums has become, AAA garbage eaters.

Spies vs Mercs in SC Blacklist was fucking great.
The whole thing was ruined by ubisoft's extremely bad netcode and matchmaking system though. My friends and I could only get in the same lobby (all of us at once) maybe 40% of the time, otherwise we would get errors.
such a shame

>it's my fault arkane is a bunch of retarded faggots and basically got lucky once by making the first dishonored story good and then all the other games were written by idiots and apparently they had a new team after the daud dlc anyway

I am mildly mad but I can't envision any possible future where things turned out differently, and prey was okay. but merely okay, not great. it is because they are austinites, it was the austin people that made these games right? it explains so much

Hitman anymore feels more like a rube goldberg style puzzle game. It’s stealth but not in the typical way.

>It was more challenging since the lighting system was better,
agreed
>and the AI was smarter
Patently false. Psychic AI is not considered good AI.
>you couldn’t just buy equipment to help
that has nothing to do with stealth and is really preference based
>also you couldn’t just leave a body due to alarms.
Theif had this as well. Based on your responses you might be htinking of Theif 2, which was in many ways a downgrade from the original.

Or remaking the original Metal Gear games. Capcom has shown how popular remakes can be

>slow and methodical

you can play over half of those games by just facefucking enemies CoD style though

Well if you’re a horror fan and a stealth fan like me, pretty much all that’s left besides some indie shit of dubious quality is RE and Hitman.

Even if there was, it'd be a post-Conviction Splinter Cell game. I don't absolutely hate those games, but they're not really continuations of the series either. As far as I'm concerned Splinter Cell has been over for a long time.

That was in no way a congruent response to what I said.

D2 had better gameplay but the new engine slowed everything down and all of the dialogue during cutscenes was garbage. it sorta took away some of the charm the original had
>anton sokolov made this lock
fun to play though. all of emily's new skills were enjoyable, even if ultimately unneccessary to play the game perfectly.

It’s actually harder to play Hitman as a shooter than it used to be.

Only normalfags say normie because they can't say 'fag' in their normalfag safespaces, you retarded cock wrangling fuckwit

Well if Konami wasn’t full jew some dude was making a 3D remake of the original and even managed to grab David Hayter.

How are the PC ports of SC1-3?
I've had a huge urge to play them again.

You can but you are heavily penalized. Some even make subsequent missions more difficult because of it. It isn't a stealth game because it prevents you from outright fighting, it's a stealth game because it rewards you for going unnoticed.

It's definitely a unique breed of stealth. Disguises and in the open a lot of the time but I always enjoy the missions where you just stay out of sight, no disguises. Plenty of variety depending on the Hitman game

dishonored 2 also had levels that were too big and open ended. yes, that meant that you could complete them a bunch of different ways, but it also meant that they were much easier. the only exceptions to this were the Jindosh mansion and the time-travel mansion because there was only really one way to do it

>Konami fired Kojima

>believing the ruse
if you check konami shareholder documents, in which they're legally obligated to report executive staff changes, there's no record of him actually being fired

instead, he was promoted to VP, and he appointed a "Representative Officer" to attend meetings on his behalf, and then they changed the *name* of the Vice President position three times over the next year, eventually ending up on something really anonymous-sounding like "Product Officer"

they never issued a press release or anything else official about it either. it was literally never anything more than some things said on twitter which were regurgitated by the shitty gaming press endlessly.
and the "farewell party" photos were literally a joke

I wish Assassin’s Creed had stayed with the original vision of social stealth. I liked the Ezio trilogy and Black Flag, but stealth games they were not.

>look I'm from 2014+

Keep going.

>What the hell happened?

COD

Dishonored 1 had some crazy shit too though. I bypassed like 90% of the last level by jumping up onto a rock and then the giant support beam/pipe thing and walking all the way up to the command center.

That must suck. I'm a grand strategy guy myself, so my choices are Paradox games, or ripoffs of Paradox games, since no one else can be arsed to make them anymore.

sure it was.
>(You): most gamers don't like video games and are just chasing the dragon
>Me: (you're chasing the dragon) only if you're a fan of a dead genre or like AAA garbage. Yea Forums is now mostly people that are like that, eating AAA garbage.

Some genres are still doing fine, especially in the indie scene.

>All AAA games are garbage

No that's literally addict logic. Thinking only indie devs have 'the good stuff.' It's fucking retarded.

They weren't but they had potential early on. I only played the first 3 and saw it become more and more combat oriented. Eventually Ubisoft just wanted shiny games frat boys would love. But the first 2 games had hints that you could still use stealth. Shanking a guy and seating him on a bench in a crowded place was great.

absolution is so fucking bad and dishonored it meh tier

>$60 dollarydoos + DLC tip for an 8 hour single player experience, or the joy of playing with knuckle-dragging troglodytes in MP
nah AAA sucks shit and if you could prove otherwise you would have named examples. AA is still good, though.

The reason the stealth genre turned to shit is because there are gamers out there who think stealth games should let you see enemies through walls, mark them or let you easily kill everyone if you want. If you like any of these things then you are responsible.

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Lotta testers and producer like Harvey Smith

>money is an object

Once again, you don't really enjoy gaming. Am I implying people should have to pay exorbitant fees? No. But at some point you have to accept that attitude is direct proof you don't enjoy games as much as you think.

So he's an undercover double agent infiltrating Sony and stealing guerilla's decima engine instead of the probably superior fox engine he already had to make a weird Silent Hill Metal Gear cross over at a different studio partnered with Sony and not affiliated with Konami, the end goal of this whole ruse would be to create the greatest epic tweest in vidya history and make no money for the perpetrators. Genius. And I suppose it was Kojima's idea for Konami to release metal gear survive and obliterate their public image all for the ruse.
Did you not think that kojima is just a hack and everything he makes looks so similar because it's all derivative and he is stuck in a creative rut?

strange, I've been having a blast playing indieshit for $15 and getting a hundred or so hours of gameplay, yet AAA hasn't given me anything of similar value in years. Why can't you name a single game? It's because you actually hate gaming and are playing AAA trash to a fill a hole in your life. AAA gaming is a disgrace and anyone that defends it is either being paid or just retarded.

They should keep them but make them optional. Idk why companies always the feel need to force shit like having to mark or not. Example: I think Hitman Absolution would’ve been good if not for the shitty instinct meter, why not make that shit optional?

Every genre is fucking dead, stealth isn't special. The same applies to all mainstream media, music, movies, its all fucking the same shit over and over. New things just don't get made anymore unless its indie

The problem with that is then they need to design the system around not having wallhacks, and apparently that's a difficult thing to do.

>Why can't you name a single game?
Because it's not an honest invitation for suggestions.

>strange, I've been having a blast playing indieshit for $15 and getting a hundred or so hours of gameplay,

That's literally something a casual would think is impressive. Not that there's anything wrong with that. It doesn't make me or you more or less right. But you gotta read between thes lines on ur history with games. If you compared our gaming history you wouldn't for one second think you get more out of them than me, and I'm not even approaching the autism levels of people I know. You are a small fish, albeit bigger than other fish.

Indie shit just cops off popular concepts and mixes it with pixelshit

This. Why are zoomers so fucking susceptible to that shit?

Just because a game has a high budget doesn’t mean it is bad. REmake 2 on hardcore is actually a true RE experience for example

>we failed it
that's not true. the splinter cell and mgs devs decided to casualize their franchises. they already appealed to casuals so it worked. hitman tried to as well, but failed because of fan backlash. the only reason hitman is still alive is because of fans of the stealth genre

Some do admittedly have good gameplay but the aesthetics usually aren’t that attractive.

>We failed

Fuck you. It's not our job to support shit.

but the 'good gameplay' is gimmicky at best and definitely not better than its AAA counterparts in both cases. Unless ur talking hardcore autismo shit like a lot of Paradox games and dwarf fortress, virtually all indie is inferior to its mainstream counterparts or inspirations.

>games should let you see enemies through walls
there's nothing wrong with this, top down stealth games work fine when you can see all the enemies on screen. it's the "easily kill everyone" part that kills stealth, just like it kills horror. and for largely the same reasons. both genres thrive on tension, and there's no tension or fear when you're not in danger, and you're not in danger when you can easily handle enemies. having too many saves/checkpoints ruins stealth and horror as well

MGS is dead because Konami doesn't know what to do with it, or any of its IPs, except make fucking Pachinko machines with them.
Thief has been dead for a long long time. No, the recent game doesn't count because it's so far removed from what the originals were it's only the same in name.
The recent Hitman games with their scummy always online and """exclusive""" elusive targets and episodic bullshit is just fucking garbage and people absolutely hate it. If they don't stop with it, Hitman will fail.
SC has been in the stinker for a long time but it's not dead. It may as well be dead though since Ubishit is handling it.
Same with Dishonored, the people in charge just suck.

If we don’t buy them, they’re not gonna get made. Stealth isn’t a genre popular among normalfags. Only Metal Gear had consistently good sales and it was a combo of nostalgia and weeaboos.

Why are theif fedora autismos so insufferable? Its like if razorfist replicated himself

Indie games are generally at their best when they either mod off an already known game, they use a dead genre, or use some utterally bizarre game mechanic nobody else uses.

Quick saves ruined stealth

Honestly, hitman was the only one I enjoyed. I see nothing wrong.

In my defense, I'm a Theif 1 autist. You are thinking of the Theif 2 autists and they are without a doubt insufferable. Also, much like razorfist, I'm older and my opinions are largely from personal experience and not some retarded shit someone said on youtube. I've been advocating for theif 1 since the day it was released but people pretended stealth didn't exist until SC came out, hence the apprehension toward ignorant opinions of the stealth genre.

Just dont fucking use them, how is other players playing a certain way ruining the game for you? Are you mad when western games dont have anime characters too?

Why are thieffags so dumb?
First Thief game: 1998
First Metal Gear game: 1987

I've rarely seen games with an option to turn quicksaves off. Quicksaves ruined games in general, way too easy.

MGS =/= metal gear nor was Metal Gear a stealth game. I hope to god your post is bait.

I’m one of the few people who likes pretty much all the stealth series for different reason. Metal Gear does environmental stealth great with camo and how enemies can interact and with real bosses. Thief has excellent sound design and level design. Splinter Cell has lighting and stealth techniques. Hitman has social stealth and loads of planning. Dishonored has the verticality of level design and the different powers. Fuck the autistic fanboys, they’re all great.

literally just avoid pressing f2/f3

Metal Gear 1 and 2 were entirely stealth games.

The Metal Gear games play exactly the same as the Metal Gear Solid games prior to MGS4 you dumb fuck. You haven't played the MG games yourself.

>"people pretended stealth didn't exist until SC"
Fairly certain no one actually thinks this other then 11 years who browse stealth kill videos

You're so scared of being judged for your taste in games you refuse to try to refute what I'm saying. You're pathetic, nothing more than a roach crawling around in your garbage heap of AAA trash, a vermin trying to fill a hole in your life with brainless crap. I bring up the indie games $/hr as a comparison point - it's not impressive at all, it's nothing more than perhaps above-average, yet you are so used to rolling in filth that you think it's actually something amazing, then try and project that onto me to try to dismiss your own awe. You're the epitome of everything wrong with this site, so terrified of being judged you refuse to mention anything you actually like, trying to use 'autism levels of people I know' as a flimsy-ass excuse of a defense to try and prop yourself up, while trying to shit on my experiences because you know yours are inadequate. You talk about my history with games, knowing nothing about me, not even asking about what games I play, since then you'd have to acknowledge your inferiority, claiming your history, which you are to scared to mention a single game of, makes my experiences with games pale. What the fuck is wrong with you. Why are you so scared. Why are you trying to bury yourself in layers of post-ironic judgemental bullshit instead of talking about what games you like, or asking what games I like to try and understand why I've arrived at my conclusion. Perhaps the games I like have elements that are completely absent in modern AAA titles. But you can never know since you're so busy trying to build up a defense of nothing to actually talk about fucking video games. I'm having a great time with HK right now, thank you for asking, and when I'm not playing that I'm getting mods for StS, and I've sunk so many hours it's become my 4th most played game on Steam. I'm considering getting S&S, but I'm worried the DaS elements of the game will end up making me not enjoy it, since I disliked the backtrack on death mechanic in HK

Jesus just stop

because if you're imposing a limit on yourself there's not really any tension. you're still fully in control, just choosing when to exert it. stealth and horror both need to take away basic abilities from the player, and put power into the enemies' hands. that's why saves are limited in games like resident evil, and that's why you lose all your gear sometimes in stealth games. the devs aren't just being dicks for no reason, there is proper game design behind these decisions

Woops, I've been thinking autosaves. Autosaves usually can't be turned off and made games way too easy. Killed games for me.

Dishonored was always shit.
>le epic steampunk world where everyone is british xdd

Just popping in to say you're a faggot and a retard

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My bad. You guys were right. I was thinking of Ninja Giaden for some reason. Probably because someone brought up Tenchu. Either way, no one ever stated Theif was the first stealth game so it's a massive strawman.

Yes please stop, you’re making yourself look really dumb

The first technically I think was Castle Wolfenstein, Metal Gear popularized it and made it into a genre. Kinda like how Alone in the Dark came first but Resident Evil made survival horror into a genre.

Yeah man I'm absolutely shaking in my boots. Perhaps if I wrote a blogpost anonymously it would prove how brave I am. Truly you are enlightened, all AAA games are trash and nothing can every defy this. This is certainly not the opinion of someone imbalanced and scarred. It's definitely level headed. You are a genius.

This is probably why tumblrtards are attracted to it

Now this is based

Is this pasta? I actually want to know

If it isn't, it's very telling how gone some people are on nu/v/.

Saved

metal gear has always been hybrid stealth/action, never entirely stealth

Nope, I'm just so fucking tired of people trying to bullshit out of answering honestly, it's all nothing but weasel words and a refusal to talk about video games. Should I have attached an image of an angry Kermit to make it clearer? Why can't people talk about video games? Why must it always be 'my unspecified tastes are better than your unspecified tastes' nonsense?

I mean that’s true since bosses, from 2 on though you can defeat them non lethally.

>Nope, I'm just so fucking tired of people trying to bullshit out of answering honestly

Maybe, here's a crazy idea, ask honest questions. What AAA games do you like so I can call them trash is not an honest question.

Only reddiors talk like this

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People have opinions, you aren’t any better for liking indie shit.

Well you know what they say

youtu.be/eB6tqxqwSfU

All toasters toast toast

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I just want a Tenchu remastered. Any of them.

Well you might be right but I've literally never visited that site outside of maybe 1 or 2 times due to morbid curiosity inspired by self hating redditors such as yourself

Not quite the right analogy. Chess never changes, different games are completely different from eachother. Chess will always be chess but thief 4 is not the same as thief 1

Nigger I fucking told you the indieshit I am currently playing, go ahead and shit all over my tastes if you want, but at least show me the same fucking courtesy. Just because you're so fucking defensive you think everything is an attack against you, not that I blame you since that's what constitutes as discussion nowadays, doesn't mean it actually is.

When the 'opinion' is just dancing around answering a question for fear of being judged, it's not really an opinion. I know I'm not better for liking indieshit, and I never said as much, I'm trying to see what AAA shit the fag I was talking to enjoys - here tells me RE2 hardcore is actually a good RE experience, so it's probably a great AAA game, but I'm not a fan of RE games in general so we don't have much to discuss. He's not worse for liking RE, nor am I better for disliking it.

But 'gaming' hasn't changed on a lot of points of contention people reference. Don't get me wrong, a lot of new games are trash, I'd never deny it. But a lot of new games are good too and their biggest crime is failing to activate the dopamine receptors of people who don't even know what they want.

You literally just stated all AAA shit is trash because of price. That's not honest in the fucking least. What fucking purpose would there be for me to name a game when you DQ'd the entire fucking industry? Are you retarded?

The real reason stealth died is because the core game mechanics of sneaking around enemies have been watered down and placed in every shitty Action "RPG".

Even Assassins Creed which started out as a stealth action game converted itself to a shitty RPG so they can try to sell "loot" in microtransactions. Disgusting

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Never once did I say price is THE reason AAA is shit. I said it's part of why it's shit, you just read into that $ way more than you should have, I was trying to say more that the time you get out of it is awful - SP campaigns are short (for the RE guy that's not an issue, but I prefer lengthy campaigns), and MP is usually designed for the lowest common denominator to increase sales. How you got "AAA is trash because price" from that I do not know.

You should go go over there as its full of passive aggressive whiny faggots such as yourself. You'll feel right at home and not have to be so combative all the time

Any tips to Silent Assassin, Suit Only in Colorado? I busted my brain doing the last four stages but I got em.

Dishonored isn't really a stealth game

Fair enough. I guess what would be more productive would be for me to address your complaints in the context of what we are saying and why I personally do not respect what you are saying.

>MP is designed for LCD
This is not really true. It's usually designed well then said knuckle draggers also drag the games into the gutter and the dev's hand is forced to accommodate the "emergent gameplay." Often the gameplay gets reductive and the people who were exploiting some form of simplicity quit because htey are no longer special retards, and this in turn kills the community and experience because the only people left are either new players or core players that didn't want the LCD shit in the first place. A great example of this is BFV and Titan Fall 2. Also, who are the first people to bitch about the games? The fucking LCD faggots who no longer feel special for playing like LCD faggots, a great example of this is Smash or SFV.

>SP campaigns are short
They are virtually the exact same length they've always been. In fact some are too long based on tradition. The average game length in the late 90s to early 00s was shorter than 10 hours easily.

if you are getting a lot out of indie games, good on you, but you kind of inadvertently proved my point, at least on the single player aspect.

All in all I respect you view I just don't respect your reasons.

Would it be 'passive aggressive' to point out you have no idea what passive aggressive means. I've been extremely forthright this entire time. Even admitted I was wrong about MG 1+2.

That’s true, I think a lot of new AAA games however go for cheap tricks of dopamine reactions too through micro transactions and gambling. Not that RNG didn’t exist in old games, just that you weren’t using real money except in arcades of course.

>Jesus just stop
Something a whiny little faggot with no real argument would say. You admitted you were wrong and yet your still arguing about nothing.

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>and their biggest crime is failing to activate the dopamine receptors of people who don't even know what they want.
nah, the biggest crime is microtransactions, including lootboxes. but don't worry, they will come up with something worse

>knuckle-draggers cause LCD
I think it goes both ways - in higher-skill games like fighters or TF2, you're absolutely right, but then you have things like Overwatch or Anthem or CoD which are designed for said retards to try and get them to stay as long as possible and spend money via microtransactions and lootboxes and shit, coupled with DLC season passes.

>They are virtually the exact same length they've always been.
You know what, you're right, I looked it up and I was wrong about that. Most AAA games of yesteryear were about 10 hours for the main story, same with modern games.
>In fact some are too long based on tradition.
I feel like unless the game gets bloated with meaningless content, the longer the better; while you're right that throwing in an extra 20 'kill 40 mooks' quests or other asinine tasks to pad length are terrible and bog down the games, games with 3 extra chapters/areas/whatever, even as post-game content, to extend the length for another 9 hours is a good thing. I would rather spend more time playing a game I like than having to wait for a sequel that might never come, and might be redundant to the point where there's nothing of value added.

>but you kind of inadvertently proved my point, at least on the single player aspect.
How so? I feel like I'm misunderstanding something on your SP point if this is the case.

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We didn't do shit. The latest entry in each of those series excluding Hitman is utter dogshit.