The FF 7 Remake is gonna fail for one big reason no one ever mentions. SE can't do action combat worth a damn. I don't mean lacking depth or any of that(although compared to dmc games these games combat is a joke). But the way it feels to play. FF XV and Kingdom Hearts as well as FF 13 battles feel wonky and floaty and fucking wrong. The way the characters move is weird, they're so smooth and fluid and floaty that it actually makes combat feel like shit. The impact on attacks is severely lacking, attacks don't look or feel like they do anything, there's no meaty attack sounds either to add a sense of impact. Look at this shit here:
No sense of impact at all, it just looks like they're flailing their swords around as these weak ass sounds play.
SE needs to get Capcom or Platinum to work on their remake, or its gonna be a disaster. Imagine Cloud and Sephiroth with those shitty looking weak attacks, it's gonna be a mess.
the fuck you talking about, FF XV's combat has plenty of impact.
Christopher Brooks
ill take any realtime combat over lame turn-based garbage. but im not buying this crap anyway
Jeremiah Roberts
There's no sense of impact in FFXV Comrades because it's multiplayer
Parker Perry
the team that made KH2FM is working on VIIR so there's still hope
Leo Roberts
FFXV's lack of impact in its combat was one of its major flaws, I constantly felt like I was just flailing at the enemies with a spoon.
Kingdom Hearts is completely the opposite though, it has more impact to its combat than pretty much any other action game. The way you can smack bosses across the arena is very satisfying. This goes for all three main games.
Unfortunately, FF7 seems to be taking more cues from FFXV than KH so far.
Zachary Young
I mean in general, no attacks have weight or impact at all, both in comrades and the normal game.
There is no hope because that game has the same problem FF XV has. No weight or impact. Watch videos of dmc games and compare to any action rpg square has made. The difference is so stark it's sad.
Gavin Rodriguez
lol no one cares if the combat is shit, it's Final Fucking 7. It's a day 1 purchase for me and for millions of other diehard fans.
Jordan Phillips
>eating shit because it has a brand name on it
The fuck is wrong with you?
Carson Cooper
I don't understand the aggressiveness? Was I telling a lie?
Julian Ross
FFXV has no impact, but KH3 feels pretty good.
Nathan Long
>I'm such a diehard fan, that's why I want this classic turn-based RPG to be converted into A FUCKING ACTION GAME.
Imagine if Sephiroth had animations like that? Instead it's gonna be him flailing his sword like a retard as you hear some weak ass effect sound playing and numbers popping up.
Oliver Thompson
God i miss menu based combat. Why did they have to do this to Final Fantasy?
Jason Carter
FF7 remake is going to fail because the game is separated into parts. By the time the sequel part comes out, nobody is going to care.
Isaiah Clark
>basing your opinion on an unreleased, secretive project by a 20 second gameplay clip from a 2015 demo o i am laffin
Levi Reed
You know damn well what the gameplay will be like, quit lying to yourself. It's gonna be FF XV/KH 3 reskinned.
Lucas Ward
You seriously think SE is capable of making good combat? Now i am laughing.
Christopher Green
It won't fail. It can be a giant piece of crap but it will sell a shitton because there's the FF7 name on it
Camden Lewis
>the fuck you talking about, FF XV's combat has plenty of impact. It certainly does. It has so much impact the game literally plays itself.
because of retards who think "turn based is boring"
Jeremiah Collins
It will fail when people try the demo and see how shit the combat is, especially after getting to play DMC V. DMC V is gonna open a LOT of people up to what real action combat is, and man it's gonna make people PISSED at Square.
Adrian Thomas
>God i miss menu based combat. Why did they have to do this to Final Fantasy? Yes, how dare they ditch such an amazing combat system.
KH2FM is objectively the best action rpg of all time
David Ramirez
This is b8 but there's a lot of truth
I have huge qualms about the game and how it will be handled as a full release and its quality, but I want to experience its shittiness or its brilliance for myself so I will get it Day one.
Impact has nothing to do with how many buttons you push, it's about how it FEELS. FF XV's combat FEELS impactful, look at the animation quality and how the hits look when they connect. Just because it doesn't require you to mash buttons like a fiend or do ultra advanced dash backstepo cancel whatever the fuck mechanics doesn't make it unimpactful.
Lucas Brown
user reminded me that they're doing the Part/Chapter/Season bullshit so yeah it's going to fail hard lmao
Jayden Watson
How the fuck can they spend a decade on this game and then have shit like this go through?
Jose Bailey
>FF XV's combat FEELS impactful But it doesn;t. FFS, even Noctis' weapons themselves literally appear and disappear in thin air, thats how weightless the combat feels
Tyler Gray
You mean Witcher 3. Witcher 3 combat shits all over any action combat SE made.
please change WRPG to CRPG since most WRPGs have Assassin's Creed tier combat while CRPGs have actually remained consistent
Michael Myers
You can do the same with any weapon in any action game, so what is your point? Does bayonetta lack impact because she can swap to a different weapon and her old one disappears? Noctis is meant to be like Gilgamesh, so of course his weapons fade in and out of existence until he needs them.
Parker Smith
I agree. And the whole "action but with a menu to choose between one static combo, magic, and items" just doesn't fucking work. At least in TB you get pages worth of commands and can use magic and summons meaningfully. I hate kingdom hearts and I hate XV. If you want to make final fantasy an action game then just make it a fucking action game and be done with it.
Jonathan Wright
I wont be getting this game. FFXIII has made it so i will never pay for a SE game ever again. FFXV just proved to me how sane that decision was. Enjoy eating shit because it says Final Fantasy on the tin user.
Ian Watson
>please change WRPG to CRPG since most WRPGs have Assassin's Creed tier combat Nice meme.
I don't give a fuck about your "I'm a raging faggot.jpg". It's a remake. That means it should have as close a gameplay as possible to the original with only bugfixes/minor balance tweaks to make it an improved, faithful version of the original thing. Or is this place a nes tof hypocrites that will only scream about how wrong it is to do things like reboot old franchises as shooters if it's genres THEY care about?
But then why the fuck would they scrap the turn based combat system? It makes no sense. SE must be retarded,
Christian Ross
>thinking the game will ever be released
Pretty sure it's canceled.
Jaxon Hall
SE employs based and redpilled niggas
Adam Phillips
>That means it should have as close a gameplay as possible to the original with only bugfixes/minor balance tweaks to make it an improved, faithful version of the original thing. The problem with that is that FF7's version of turn-based combat is an inherently shitty system.
ATB is nothing more than a bastardization of turn-based combat, by adding a real-time element that means you can get attacked during your turn, thus defeating the whole point of using a turn-based system.
It's also incredibly slow. In a normal turn-based game, you input your commands and they are executed. But in an ATB game, you first have to wait for the characters' ATB bars to slowly fill before you can input commands, and after they are executed, you have to wait again for them to fill before you can input new commands, over and over.
Having separate battle screens is also incredibly archaic.
KH3 plays like ass though, watch a dmc v vid, dmc shits all over it
Nolan Martinez
No, that would be a remaster. A remake is redoing the game, conceptually. Think RE2.
Jace Morales
cringe! dmc v is way more floaty than any recent kh game
Joseph Harris
Friendly fire is in FF6. You can target your party members, not to mention, crusaders, meltdown, and quake target everybody on screen.
Hudson Rodriguez
The combat in any FF game is a necessary evil at worst. Literally spam attack or occasionally the relevant magic if the enemy has resistance to physical. Making the combat require more input is the best thing they could do, since obviously they can't make turn-based (ATB, whatever) combat have proper, meaningful mechanics.
Matthew Peterson
All those things you described are things i love about FFVII.
Brandon Jackson
You've literally never looked at the options menu in a single PS1 Final Fantasy game have you
Juan Thomas
That image doens't even look like FFVII. Just because Cloud has his giant ass buster sword doesn't mean shit. It looks way out of place.
Parker Thomas
dmc attacks have way more sense of impact though
Carson Harris
>KH1 >KH2 >KH3 >KH Recoded >Brave Fencer Musashi >Secret of Mana and many other games in the Mana series >Star Ocean series And this isn't counting co-developed games like TWEWY or Nier Automata Fuck off Barry
Wyatt Long
FFVIIR Episode Zack and Episode Sora will be pure kino. Prove me wrong.
Julian Cox
>Friendly fire is in FF6. Not in any meaningful sense. In turn-based western rpgs, area of effect abilities have a certain radius that means nearby party members can get hit in the crossfire, meaning you have to be mindful of how you move and position your characters.
In FF6 this aspect is non-existent, since movement is non-existent and spells and abilities are designed in a simplistic fashion and only ever have a single target or ALL targets.
FF13 has turned based combat so what the hell are you talking about
Hudson Young
Especially the one where they fuck each other in the ass
Josiah Green
I believe he is talking about how the animations feel
Robert Nelson
>You've literally never looked at the options menu in a single PS1 Final Fantasy game have you
Even if you choose the wait mode, you still have to retreat into the magic/items menu, else you still get hit during your turn.
And how does that help your argument? The wait mode is literally just a shitty bandaid. Why is it even there? It's an admission that active mode sucks ass.
If they release the first episode of FFVIIR and it is actually just a Crisis Core remake, then part 2 is the original game remade, then part 3 is dirge I would cum
Grayson Edwards
Giving players an option on how to play the game is not a bandaid.
Jason Diaz
I mean that's pretty much how I expected an HD residential midgard to look like. Midgard never had just one look visually. Most of its districts were pretty distinct from one another
David Lopez
The game dosent even have force feed back though
Daniel Robinson
Nonsense, a remaster is porting the whole game over, same engine, same bugs, just gluing improved visual effects, textures, post-processing, etc. etc on top of it. It's a purely visual upgrade. "Remasters" are a very recent thing, too. A remake is rebuilding the game from the ground up, changing engines, as in literally REMAKING the same game again but with modern technology and the ability to refine some of its rougher edges, including new translations, for example. Square Enix has a long history of remaking games, look at the GBA/PSP remakes of one through VI, the whole game made from the ground up with new engine, different balance, in the case of I and II a different spellcasting system... but still fundamentally the same gameplay.
ATB is also a central gameplay system of the original game. I don't weight in much in the ATB vs. classic turns discussion that sometimes we have in FF threads, but even if we assume that the base gameplay of VII is completely unsalvageable [it isn't], there are way better solutions than "turn it into Final Fantasy XV" that don't involve shifting it to a whole different genre of gameplay entirely.
Would Zoomers even want to wade through menus? Oh wait they are busy playing Fortnite aren't they? Why is SE making this game like this again?
Lincoln Edwards
They are remaking the game conceptually. I already told you this. The story, the beats, the characters, the world. The concept of the game. Those FF games are remakes, yes, but shitty ones. Maybe you can even call them ports.
Connor Scott
Square is dead. and turning FF into an action rpg is a travesty. but i'll still buy this for the updated visuals.
Hudson Bell
>Giving players an option on how to play the game is not a bandaid. It is when it contradicts the core game mechanics. Giving players options to play the game would be something like different difficulty settings that make enemies smarter and more threatening.
But wait mode contradicts the entire concept of ATB system.. And even then, even after choosing wait mode, why does the player still have to perform the incredibly tedious task of retreating into submenus to avoid the effects of being hit during their turn?
It's a nonsense system with no coherent thought put into it, and unsurprisingly, the devs only 'solution' was to slap some bandaid wait mode on it.
You can't have it both ways. Either ATB is a shitty system and the wait mode is an attempt at salvaging it, or ATb is a fantastic system and wait mode is pointless. You're contradicting yourself.
I never said ATB was better than turnbased. I said going away from menu based combat was a shit move. Nice reddit spacing by the way.
Colton Perry
>Witcher 3. Witcher 3 combat shits all over Ok slav, go back to the Soviet Union
Julian Allen
As long as the combat isn't anywhere near the garbage that are the souls/BB games, then it's alright. I cannot for the life of me understand how people think these games have good combat.
>How did it all go so horribly wrong? FF used to be the cream of the crop. The fuck you talking about? Even in its heyday, Final Fantasy was literally the Call of Duty of RPGs: a mass-market appealing series that prioritized cinematic spectacle and bombast to the detriment of everything else.
I think your definition of cream of the crop might deviate from that other anons
Caleb Ortiz
What's the point of the ATB system? SMT Press Turn rewards hitting enemies weakness, avoiding attacks, generally paying attention to your team and the enemy's. I can see something like this, but more simpler in your regular RPG. But what's the point of the ATB that isn't achieved through a turn system? It's just a bar that makes you wait. There's no strategy or anything. The only time you have to think in FF7 is outside battles, building up your materias.
Josiah Russell
I suppose I legitimately could not hate the company for deciding to go this route if from the get-go they addressed it as it is: Not a remake of Final Fantasy VII, but an entirely different game wearing Final Fantasy VII's face for some reason. But it's a move that definitely does not deserve praise. If you want to make a game modern, more action-oriented players will like, then make a game for modern players. Don't take something from the 90s that was very much NOT an action game then bastardize it as such.
I blame Nomura and his obsession with making metrosexual jrockers as characters, and his wuxia obsession. Old FF was classic fantasy, you picture epic sword duels and magic. FF from 7 onward is wuxia shit with jrockers caked in makeup flying in midair fighting and talking about "fighting their inner darkness" as rock music with gregorian chants plays.
Bentley Allen
Special ed double spacing is not paragraphs you absolute mongoloid
Ryan Ward
>the fuck you talking about, FF XV's combat has plenty of impact. it was actually significantly toned down throughout the years. as an aside, Tabata also reduced the size of all the weapon models, not knowing that there's a reason why action games have large weapons. as a result, you can barely make out the details on most weapons
>reason no one ever mentions. SE can't do action combat worth a damn People bring it up all the time. It should have stayed turn based.
Mason Nguyen
>implying it's ever going to come out
Nolan Howard
likewise.
Dylan Anderson
I don't think it's about modern players. Think of simple game like Final Fantasy 1. What we see as a player isn't what is really going on. The characters aren't really standing 50 metters appart, slashing the air and hurting the enemy. That's just a reprentantion, because we didn't have the tecnology to show what's actually happening. If you were to remake Final Fantasy 1 nowadays, you wouldn't make it like that. You would show what's actually happening. They are moving around the battlefield, doing stuff. Same thing with FF7. Cloud and Barret aren't standing still, looking at some giant mech scorpion waiting for some bar to fill up. That's just a reprensation of what's really happening. They are trying to remake what you would think of Cloud fightning. Thus, action combat is necessary. Same thing with the rest of the game, really. They are remaking it as you would imagine. As was their concept. It's not really wearing the face of FF7 as much as it's their trying to make the game they had in vision but couldn't do.
You are looking at it from your own bubble of expectations, not taking into account that very few people outside of forums like this share those expectations.
Outside of places like Yea Forums, FFXV's primary criticism is that it's short, but the game received pretty big praise outside of that, and Kingdom Hearts 3 is easily the most popular game out right now in spite of your claims about it's combat,(haven't played it, so I can't speak fornor against your criticisms) meaning the things you value in a combat system are not what the audience at large values.
Basically, you're a colossal moron if you think it's going to fail for the reasons you think it is. Get over yourself, retard.
Players also play a roll in this as well. Just look at JRPG's today compared to the ones of yesteryear. This super "Anime" ideal is what sells so something like classical FF with a more fantasy style is a much harder sell. This isn't a strictly FF thing either. For example look at Persona, compare the originals to the modern ones and there is a very distinct difference in style and who the target audience is.
Adrian Flores
and here's the weapon models. not as big of a problem as the combat system being shit, but still a pointless change nonetheless. knowing tabata, it was probably because big weapons "aren't realistic" or "not popular in the west". compare the greatsword force stealer to what we get in the final game. it's criminal and a waste of such a good design. they also removed Gladio's signature greatsword for literally no reason at all
DMC V will raise people's expectations of action combat. And it WILL ruin FF 7 remake.
Joseph Wilson
>I don't think it's about modern players. Think of simple game like Final Fantasy 1. What we see as a player isn't what is really going on. The characters aren't really standing 50 metters appart, slashing the air and hurting the enemy. That's just a reprentantion, because we didn't have the tecnology to show what's actually happening. ??? You realize turn-based games which depicted characters moving about existed before FF1 came out?
All i ever heard about FFXV outside of Yea Forums was that the plot was horseshit that made no sense, the combat was ass, and the amount of ridiculous japanese bullshit like cupnoodles and taking photos was over the top and retarded,
Robert Hernandez
This.
Like it or not, the biggest flaw of turn based RPG combat is the fact that it, by definition, cannot have an ounce of diegetic validity whatsoever. No.matter how complex or well thought out it is, it will always be a representation rather than a depiction or simulation
I don't mind action games, but what really irritates me is the idea of turning all RPGs in particular into action games. Sure put RPG inspired elements into your action games if you feel like it (though by no means feel obliged to), but to turn RPGs that weren't already action into action just turns things into an entirely different experience altogether and gives the industry less variety overall. If everything was an action game things would get dull really quickly. Games shouldn't all be the same.
Elijah Ramirez
The next Kingdom Hearts game will feature the original Insomnia as a major part of the story as per the KH3 secret ending
Asher Lee
But thats not a flaw, its a positive gameplay element. Not everything has to be realistic.
Connor Jenkins
and here's another example of the gimped weapons. sorry if this comes off as autistic, i just never see anyone mentioning it
I'm looking forward to that game like you wouldn't believe but no, it won't.
Most likely scenario, DMCV will be successful with it's core fanbase and will be remembered as that one time a fanbase got exactly what it wanted after years of neglect and everyone was happy for them, but will have very little effect on gaming culture and normie buying habits.
Isaiah Morris
When are they going to talk about it again? It feels like forever already.
Xavier Lopez
This. If you're thinking DMC V will be some sort of revolution in the game industry, stop now because you're only deluding yourself. DMC as a franchise is still niche to an extent, and could at most be considered AA, but will go largely unnoticed by those in the AAA world. Those of us such as myself will enjoy the game as we have with the others (except 2) and that's where it will end.
Chase Nelson
>What we see as a player isn't what is really going on. >If you were to remake Final Fantasy 1 nowadays, you wouldn't make it like that. You would show what's actually happening. I can tell you what was going on in Final Fantasy 1. In Final Fantasy 1 I the player was allowed to create an entire party of adventurers that I got grow attached to. But most of all I got to depart with a party where I fully controlled all individual characters. In an action game you can't have that. In an action game you can't play as a party, in an action game you can but only control a single character at a time and then have the control that should have been yours be taken by shitty AI instead.
This is why mainline Final Fantasy should never be action games.
Jayden Allen
Those are just scrubs, their opinions don't mean shit.
Caleb Ross
>he never played FFT, Einhander, Vagrant Story, Front Mission
Eli Davis
>TRANINIES BITCHING Yeah, this game will be good
Connor Jackson
I don't know how a FF1 Remake would be handled. Doesn't matter. I think in FF7 they would have you switch characters. Not quite the same thing. But they want you to feel in control of Cloud, to do the cool stuff that it's only alluded in game since turn based combat can't translate into what the developers have in mind.
Colton Edwards
>This is coming from a huge DMC fan who doesn't like the old DMC's because they're old Jesus
Anthony Robinson
journos as well youtu.be/9gpMOsD-Gk0?t=306. these people can only play action games that are simple as Souls and Batman. almost all the Sekiro videos i've seen play the games like it's Dark Souls and don't even parry like they're supposed to
Cooper Phillips
>Not quite the same thing. Not the same thing at all. >But they want you to feel in control of Cloud Which is fucking shit. Main character or not he was not the sole player character and never was. >to do the cool stuff that it's only alluded in game That's what the attack animations are for. Perfect or not. >since turn based combat can't translate into what the developers have in mind You're really just trading one ditch for another. Fuck I can't even imagine how pathetic the whole Aerith thing will be if you never even got to control her as a player character. That's a mayor element in why it hit you so hard and why it felt so personal.
Jordan Lewis
>Action RPGs didn't exist before 3D >ATB was a product of limited technology Are you people really this fucking dumb?
FF7 is amazing and FF7Re will be utter trash. It is also very exemplary of Square Enix's current attitudes towards Final Fantasy and games in general. And it's awful.
Kayden Hughes
Yeesh, someone's 15 >I know about all this stuff I wasn't around to experience Cool
Robert Gonzalez
Yeah, that wonky and floaty combat really stopped KH3 from selling we—-
>Kingdom Hearts III’s launch sales were up an impressive 363 per cent compared to 2017’s Kingdom Hearts HD 2.8 Final Chapter Prologue, and up 157 per cent compared to launch sales for 2006’s Kingdom Hearts II, even when considering the different japanese, european and american release dates
And FF XV sold really poorly as well, ri——
>Final Fantasy XV total sales has surpassed 8.1 million units worldwide, as of september 2018
