If this game is such masterpiece why isn't there a moral grey area with the factions...

This x100
It’s mostly up to your interpretation of what happens but the game also spells out what would happen if any faction was to succeed, except some dumb shit like House in space

BoS and institute are the only viable factions
Admitting your minutemen or Railroad makes you look like a fucking geek

It's not a masterpiece, it just has an extremely loud fanbase of 10-20 resident fanboys who have nothing else to do that to spam "their" game all over.

The Courier is the weakest part of NV's narrative and makes the ideologies of all factions a meaningless joke

nice schizophrenia user. you call out those 10 new vegas fans.

They're every shitty government bureaucracy ever. If you help them, they take over all of the surrounding areas and enforce high taxes that many can't pay. And when they can't pay, they kick them out of their homes to survive in the fucking wasteland.

At least the legion didn't pretend they weren't going to kill you, ncr just lets the wild life do it for them.

The biggest thing that bugged me about the Courier’s story is how the writers tried to make it seem like a noble game changing role when in reality your a fucking mailman

How do you suppose that? To me the Courier is just a person who due to blind chance finds themself in the right time and the right place to decide to fate of nations.

>why isn't there a moral grey area with the factions?
But there is, with all of them.

>House
>Villain
Someone speaking down to you doesn't mean they're a villain. Did you learn nothing from Point Lookout? No wonder Bethesda keeps dumbing down their games, they know their audience too well.

The Empire is preparing for the next great war with the Thalmor and says that at least the remaining provinces must stand together. It's approach is more practical and says that the White-Gold Concordat is only temporal and the citizens must trust them regardless.

The Stormcloacks claim that the ban of Talos worship and the Thalmor death squads are unaccpetable under any circumstances and it was cowardness to sign the Concordat on the first place.

House isn't a villain, he's pretty much how Disney ran Disneyworld.

sorry noone fell for your bait user

The courier is a ridiculous mary sue that singlehandedly makes every effort of anyone in NV meaningless because he alone is the kingmaker (can even king himself) for totally arbitrary reasons and all he had to do was blunder around running errands and killing things
It's a game about competing ideologies and some zombie asshole with a quickload button and an itchy trigger finger just bulldozes everything. The courier isn't clever or resourceful, he's just a fucking video game character in a video game world that tries for once to be serious.
NV is too good a setup to be squandered on some stupid fucking power fantasy for adhd nerds but such is the nature of video games who get too big for their britches

Until extremely recently messengers and couriers were considered vitally important.

Why do you think Hermes was a fucking god, and why killing messengers during wartime in antiquity was tantamount to a war crime?

>The Stormcloacks claim that the ban of Talos worship and the Thalmor death squads are unaccpetable under any circumstances and it was cowardness to sign the Concordat on the first place.
It doesn't hurt the Stormcloak's claims when the Thalmor are abducting people out of their homes on suspicion of Talos worship to never be seen again, all with the sanction of the Imperial authorities. The "big picture" doesn't really matter to the guy who's whole family is tortured to death because he was neighbors with some guy who had a secret Talos shrine in his basement.

bluepilled: Legion and House are the villains
redpilled: NCR is the villain
ascendedpilled: everyone except Yes Man are the villains

Not too bad in theory but it’s an apocalypse where everyone that doesn’t live in the city is in constant danger to unchecked abominations and rapist slavers

People actually though the Stormcloaks were racist and the Thalmor were neutral at worst, TESVI is going to be a cartoon

>And when they can't pay, they kick them out of their homes to survive in the fucking wasteland.

Meanwhile the Legion is crucifying innocents. And you say that it should be a realistic option instead of a bad bureaucracy.

>Fallout is a series about random nobodies becoming hugely important to the fate of burgeoning wasteland nations simply by being unstoppable death machines
>hurr currier marry su durr y he doo all werk????

There are actual Thalmor defenders?
Sure the Imperial’s are written as cucks but they have a better chance at a revolt than a bunch of Nords just waiting to get bodied entirely when the Thalmor hit the docks and border.

That only supports what I said.

That makes me fucking angry though. These fucking SJW cunts claim them to be racists while they are actually a nationalistic resistance fighters against actual Elven nazis.

You're a retard. The winner in NV isn't the ideology that was most fit to survive, it was the faction that was most persuasive to some random mailman. The ideologies didn't even matter in the end because the referee just stomped in and declared a winner based on his fee fees.
And yes the other Fallouts had their moments of stupidity as well but I'm not talking about them.

>House is the villain
how so?
>muh dictatorship
dictatorships are only bad when the dictator is a retard
House is extremely intelligent and will be able to rule New Vegas with the help of his securitrons

>where everyone that doesn’t live in the city is in constant danger to unchecked abominations and rapist slavers

Not really. You have slums directly outside Vegas that are unavoidable with any major city, but they're still protected from mutants and raiders.

Prior to the encroachment of foreign influence the Mojave had a fairly stable network of settlements enjoying the existence of a neutral superpower. Even with the introduction of the NCR, trade flourishes and the Mojave is so attractive it elicits tourism and even immigration from the sole functioning nation in the world.

The advent of the Legion, entirely an tumorous growth of the NCR, complicates matters, but you're grossly overstating how dangerous it is. Literally just the American frontier flipped around, replace deathclaws with bears and slavers with injuns/banditos.

I think it was only half finished, they had to rushed it out because of Bethesda schedule. There was even supposed to be a raider faction where you need to unite all the raiders under your leadership.

They think Thalmor are okay BECAUSE they kill Stormcloaks. And they think Stormcloaks are bad because a couple guys in Windfell are mean to dunmer, neither of which are actual Stormcloaks. The fact that the dunmer are only there because Ulfric allows it is totally lost on them.
This is a very common reading of the plot.

Not him but both NCR and Legion are fully capable of succeeding without the Courier, their lives are just a lot harder. The only factions contingent on the Courier are House and yourself.

>Meanwhile the Legion is crucifying innocents
While also ensuring anyone who is actually Legion is protected including their caravans whereas NCR doesn't do a thing to protect them and taxes them simultaneously
If you're not Legion then tough luck. If you are though, you're going to be protected and looked after provided you serve.
Did you play the game or are you just shitposting?

>crucifying innocents
I love seeing this argument thrown around because the only times you ever see the legion crucifying anyone in game it's the legitimate shite of the wasteland

>great khans =/= drug manufactorers and dealers
>powder gangers =/= convicted felons and prison escapees
ncr niggers =/= literally the only ones they crucifyed to my knowledge were in nipton, and they were in cohorts with the powder gangers

Its clear to anyone with two braincells they're only torturing the subversive and harmful elements that harm and hurt the overall population. Go back to shady sands you aping silverback she-boon

>dictatorships are only bad when the dictator is a retard

He is intelligent but on the other hand he is narcistic and a sociopath which becomes clear the first you meet him. Again, it's not a really tough decision.

>NCR only prospers because some random hobo from a Vault is persuaded to save Tandi
>mailman bad! BAD!!!!

Lol Kimball is also a warmongering narcissist, whose inner circle are sociopathic warhawks and brahmin barons.

House is a fucking saint compared to Kimball, he hasn't waged war on anybody.

Are you pretending the conflict between shady sands and the khans is in any way similar to the clash between NCR and Legion? And that the Courier deciding who reigns over the Mojave is equivalent to rescuing a kidnapped girl from raiders?
Consider suicide

Not him but I think his major butthurt is that original Fallout, where that happens, wasn't attempting anything politically or morally complex in its setting. It was a typical Mad Max ripoff with "wasteland wanderer saves tiny town, also kills mutants and saves home" as the plot.

because that shit literally has no influence on the gameplay

Yeah, my point is at least you know what's in store with the legion. Also, don't forget the mutant town in the mountains. The NCR was planning to kill them all and take their shit. Is genocide only cool when the NCR does it?

is this bait?

>I-is this bait?
user btfo

I don't think you need to kill anyone to complete the game.

Maybe you should replay Lonesome Road and pay attention to Ulysses' bitching about how the actions of individuals can change history. You know, since it's a major fucking element of all the Fallout games.

Every single person except for maybe ten were crucified in Nipton regardless of crime; okay, some were burned alive instead.

Let me know how tight your fedora is if you consider gambling and prostitution to be crimes fit for being nailed to a cross.

>muh gamblers
>muh prostitutes

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Not to mention he can rule forever and knows how to make all the old world shit

He's got a point. The legion got where it was by killing all males that weren't small children, then enslaving the women. What's to say they won't do that with New Vegas and the surrounding towns?

Yeah I bet everyone just went total pacifist route because it's the natural way to play right

>Is genocide only cool when the NCR does it?

The game certainly doesn't frame it that way, considering you have several quests where their manifest destiny is portrayed in an appropriately bad light.

grr I am angry about your reply!! (you) (you) (you)!!

The fact they only do that to tribal societies

Is this?

Legion would be great if it wasn't for the fact that Caesar is an old fart with a really shitty heir. Didn't Jsawyer basically confirm that they'd fall completely apart once Caesar dies?

>Before Caesar's Legion hit the town, it was populated by gamblers, thieves, and prostitutes under the leadership of the corrupt and vainglorious Mayor Joseph B. Steyn. The town maintained a kind of neutrality, offering its services to NCR soldiers in the night and Powder Gangers in the day. Even men of the Legion were allowed in, so long as they paid. Mayor Steyn had hatched a plan with "Mr. Fox"- actually Vulpes Inculta- to trap some NCR soldiers and Powder Gangers for the Legion in return for a sum of 8,000 caps. What Steyn didn't know was that Vulpes had come up with the brilliant idea to have a lottery to "educate" all of Nipton. The winner was spared, the runner-up was crippled, the third and fourth place winners became slaves, the "Lucky Losers" were decapitated for a quick death, some (including Mayor Steyn) were burned alive on a pile of tires, and the rest were crucified.

I see the fit is tight.

>killing all males
Did you even play New Vegas? Honestly, or are you just here for yous?
Cesaers legion was in the process of annexing both the white legs and great khans prior to the couriers involvement. besides, how the fuck do you patrol a state the size of Arizona with child soldiers?

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They did that to tribals because tribals are retarded unproductive savages only useful for the brute force it takes to subjugate civilized opposition.
Also the fact that the NCR gets BTFO by tribals in football gear says a lot about the NCR. They're throwing naive farmboys to their death as much as the Legion is throwing tribals to theirs.

This, Caesar even admits to you that every conquest up to that point was basically him subjugating a bunch of tribal barbarians.

That article doesn't disprove my statement. They killed all adult and teenage males, then indoctrinated the kids. The purpose of this is these people aren't going to be loyal to you if you just destroyed their identity, enslaved their women, and forced them to fight and die for bullshit they don't believe in. And it works perfectly fine because ceasar is playing the long game, he had enough time to let them grow into teenagers.

Not the first time great conquests have been stopped dead in their tracks by unlucky poor health. If only Caesar had a worthy heir...
On the other hand the NCR really has no place for the courier, all the courier can do is enable the feckless corruption of politicians and businessmen that never even touched the mojave. There's no way to direct or reform that mess.

Yeah because the mayor was such a moral upright source of glowing humanity

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>Legion and House are villains

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True, but nowhere in my post did I ever insinuate that I even vaguely like the NCR. The House always wins as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know what you don't understand about ALL ABLE BODIED MALES. Fuck off with your head cannon shit, I cant refute or disprove things you've made up in your own head you retard

>They're throwing naive farmboys to their death
Just like in Nam.

New Vegas without the Courier

>Benny dies at the Fort because even if he made it into the Securitron Vault, there is no way he could have used the army to protect himself
>House is utterly powerless without his army of killbots and not a major player
>President Kimball is assassinated visiting Hoover Dam, which is overrun by the Legion. Camp McCarran is overrun by Fiends. Chief Hanlon and all the Rangers die covering the NCR retreat. General Oliver is likely also killed at the Dam. Complete loss for NCR.
>Legion takes the Dam and Vegas with the assistance of the Great Khans and Omertas, they eradicate the Fiends and waste lives taking out the Boomers. Caesar doesn't live to see any of it, having fallen into a coma before the Battle for Hoover Dam. Lanius runs the Legion into the ground.

I always thought the whole "guns lose to lawnmower blade machetes" thing was either a meme or really unexplored. How does a legionnaire survive a bullet in the lung?

I want to believe House.

Endings state Goodsprings too small and most of population flees, Primm is either put under martial law or slaughtered to the last, and Novac is sacked and most of the population flees.

Boulder City is an NCR settlement so its almost certainly wiped out. Same goes for Bitter Springs. All tribal allies bar the Boomers are wiped out.

The Mojave is now a graveyard with a single mausoleum palace at its center. So much for Rome.

Killing yourself would fix your frustration, and would be far faster than loading up the game and listening to a few relevant conversations that establish an easy to understand time line.

Why exactly does a highly fortified position filled with well equipped and well provisioned soldiers get over run by literal junkies wearing pipe cleaners and old tires?

The rank and file NCR are just that bad
Both the NCR and Legion elite are serious hardasses though, but they're not the ones patrolling and garrisoning everywhere. And the legion's spies/saboteurs are incredible.

He's a businessman like he's always been, concerned about his bottom line, and you are his employee. A very well paid and well respected employee but an employee nonetheless. That's why he's so adamant about killing the brotherhood of steel, because you work for him. Guy's got no reason to lie.

Ohh man, booze and whores? That's fucking heinous, these people were ITCHING for a STITCHING to a plank of wood!

My god man.

It's a meme. The Legion fights with guns but they're also proficient in melee combat and prefer to fight up close because of their superior training and NCR's distaste for getting stabbed. They're also big on sending people behind the lines to ambush small groups of NCR soldiers, where NCR's advantage is in big battles over fighting a guerilla war.

Also apparently every Legion soldier could run at like 130% run speed before they were nerfed to show how a physically fit man in his prime can sprint right up to you and jam a blade in your face

>> 451925295
>hurr im fucking retarded
Go play the game you moron. You don't even deserve a (you), pathetic

Because it's canon that NCR is terrible at holding the line against determined attackers and drugs make you hella determined

>Huh, he's called me on my bullshit, what do I say in response
>I'll just repeat what he said back to him, that'll show em!

Faggot

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I bet you think sex slavery is a completely moral business enterprise, no? I don't think the legion give a fuck about prostitution considering they all have sex with the slaves in their camp
As for gambling I have no issue with it either, and I don't think the legion do too considering you can play caravan with the traders in Caesar's camp.

>> 451925616
Based snail wrangling retard

Thanks for the (you)

A basic legionary doesn't survive a bullet to the lung. But the NCR grunt can barely aim his rifle, he runs out of ammo before long, the poorly trained bastards break formation and fall to wave after wave of legionaries who can't retreat on penalty of death.

Plus a little leeway for mass-produced shit bullets sold by Gun Runners to maximize profits without giving a shit about their country.

>They killed all adult and teenage males
Except they don't. Even if you want to ignore all the people who say they burn off tattoos and force interbreeding between rival tribes to scrub away the ingrained tribal identities, there's still at least one Legion NPC who was an adult when he was forced into the Legion.

Antony, the houndmaster, from the Hangdog tribe out by Denver that was only subjugated in the last five years. He talks about watching his dogs burn like he was there and old enough to really understand how horrific it was for his culture to have to watch it happen.

OP is a redditor

Adrenaline does things to your body, man.

Theres no point taking the crayon snorting oragutan seriously at this point, leave him to his head cannon fantasies of legion = BAD

None of that matters, mong. My point is you think crucifying an entire city over prostitution, gambling, and political corruption is a perfectly reasonable, morally upright thing.

Nipton treatment makes Legion bad guys, idiot.

>Crucifies captured soldiers
>Main enemy soldiers and leave them to die over the course of days
>Mass genocide because muh roman dream
>A society where everyone is to a degree enslaved

Did I make you spill your plate of fried chicken, little man?

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>M-muh black and white morality!!

>> 451926118
bix noods gimme dat fried chigun nigggguhh

>And the legion's spies/saboteurs are incredible.
Man, roleplaying Courier as an NCR counterintelligence specops officer was fucking fine. Catching Legion moles, working on both sides as a double agent, just so you can suddenly sabotage Legion's plan and stab them in the back.

I wouldn't call the Legion good but they're not chaotic stupid. Some people pretend like they're just organized fiends but they're a band of savages whipped into a terrifying army restoring a form of brutal order to the wasteland a wasteland that wants to be a lawless mess sliding into uninhibited vice.
Half the reason they're so terrifying is because they're fighting a war against a significant foe. They're not doing it for fun, they're doing it for results; Nipton happened for a reason.
NCR's "evil" is a lot more subtle and insidious, just like IRL. I understand why people fall for it, their soldiers are certainly more relateable than Legion lunatics and the corruption is buried well beneath the surface but it's there and it's aiming to exploit and extract, not protect.

House is the only shot humanity has to better itself in the Fallout Universe, really. The NCR is better than the Legion, but it's still a failing, corrupt republic that can barely police it's own borders.

Meanwhile, House is a literal genius with a nigh-immortal existence who has the plan and knowhow to advance humanity in unimaginable ways.

BIG IRON

youtube.com/watch?v=999RqGZatPs

>Meanwhile, House is a literal genius with a nigh-immortal existence who has the plan and knowhow to advance humanity in unimaginable ways.
My problem with House is he seems incompetent at managing the little stuff, like how he almost got totally screwed over by Benny and the families running out of control. He has big plans, but what does the post-apocalypse have planned for him? And what will he become?

Genocide and slavery is much better when it is approved by NCR bureaucracy.

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With a Courier supporting him to do the little stuff, it's reasonable to assume he'd at least imrpove things measurably.

Legion bought stability, unity and peace to a plethora of warring tribals all across Arizona. Who, before Caesar, were illiterate savages who would kill, rape and torture each other while wallowing in the dirt accomplishing fuck all. Now they have territory and a collective identity lead by a leader with good intentions. What's to be against? There's plenty to say, yes. They aren't perfect, but they aren't evil. Not by a long shot.

Not defending the legion, only pointing out their cruel methods and ends justify the means mentality. Which all falls to shit when ceasar dies anyways, so it's all for nothing.

what a shit thread, shame on all 30 of you

I have both 3 and nv which should i play first?

>Join our army of slavers or we'll kill and enslave you.
>Nice girl you got there, she'll be one of my concubines

Hows the low testosterone levels serving you?

>Which all falls to shit when ceasar dies anyways
>citation needed*
in none of the endings where caesar is dead does the legion fall apart. Though yeah, it's likely very few shared his unique vision of it.

nooo they were living in harmony with nature and being all noble savages surely

3 if you want a mindless romp with a ridiculous story that doesn't hold up to even minor scrutiny, NV if you want a more reserved experience with a story that requires scrutiny.

>having a concubine is somehow low t
the absolute state of Yea Forums soiboys

Yeah, even the first two games had that as a theme as well with the plot in both being the clash between new societies borne out of the post post-apocalypse and the pre-war constructs trying to claw their way back to the top.

Most of the endings don't go beyond the immediate future and are very vague about it when they do. It will take years for the Legion to disintegrate in any ending where Lanius is still alive to lead them in Caesar's place

>Yeah, even the first two games had that as a theme as well with the plot in both being the clash between new societies borne out of the post post-apocalypse and the pre-war constructs trying to claw their way back to the top.
>CIVILIZATION BAD
>SCIENCE BAD
>MAD MAX AESTHETIC GOOOOD

>House
>Villain
I'll give you Legion since they fucked up by barely making content for it so it just remained a villain faction you can ally with.

Fuck Oliver and Fuck NCR

Most of the NCR is incompetent as fuck, at least the Mojave front is. They're either green, crippled, drunk off their asses, tied up in paperwork, undercover for another faction, abusing their position to do some dirty shit on the side, or they're this guy.

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Hell no, before the courier came around the NCR was losing the war because of Oliver's ineptitude. Without you to complete all those NCR quests they'd be fucked. Meanwhile Legion was more or less doing fine apart from Caesar dying from a tumor before you came along. Oliver was an inept glory hogging retard.

>Who, before Caesar, were illiterate savages who would kill, rape and torture each other while wallowing in the dirt
Yet the Legion kill, enslave, rape and torture just as well, only their uniform are shinier.

>Now they have territory and a collective identity lead by a leader with good intentions.
>good intentions
everlasting war of conquest motivated by momentum isn't exactly good intentions.

>Without you to complete all those NCR quests they'd be fucked.
same with every ingame faction, thats video games

Why does every New Vegas thread devolve into people arguing over which side is better based on their headcanon rather than what's presented to them in the game

Because what's presented to people in the game is open to interpretation depending on who you favor?

people like to choose teams and defend their ideologies till death

Caesar barely has any quests and plenty NCR quests involve foiling their plans that would work without you being there to stop them so they're the winners in a courierless world.

the interpretations people make are a huge stretch
like lets pretend the legion are actually good guys because of some shit josh sawyer said on formspring that contradicts the game content

Except they're not.

Whats the institutes goal?

>"courier-less world" the Legion:
1. Cuts off the NCR from moving troops from their base to the Vegas strip
2. Has the gangster faction seize the strip and gun down every NCR soldier and citizen
3. Directs the Fiends to kamikaze the NCR HQ and cripple them
4. Uses the Great Kahns as cannon fodder at the battle of Hoover Dam so the Legionaries can mop up whats left

Each faction in NV is a horrible option for NV itself, aside from House and Independent.
For Skyrim, the only actually choice is the Stormcloaks. If you understand the lore of the elderscrolls, you'd understand just how important the gods are to the world to continue existing and the practice of worshiping them is. Brainlets think that the conflict is just about whose in control of Skyrim, when its actually about religion. The Thalmurs goal is to basically kill one of the divines which would fuck the whole world up, not just Skyrim.

Don't forget that Caesar's tumor kills him so we get Legate having to run shit which won't last at all.

If courier didn't exsist than legion would win the battle of Hoover dam but lose the war.
Ones the higher ups in NCR are put under real pressure by loosing their territories they'll get their act together and point all of the NCR's militairy towards Caesar. The legion will also lose it's biggest strenght of being able to assimalte weaker tribes, they won't be able to do this too the NCR because they can evacuate their citizens into safe regions.

People overexaggerate how bad the NCR is for some weird reason on Yea Forums, they talk as if it's some Somalia tier failed state when it's just blatantly not the case.

This. All I see is fanfic.

According to Sawyer the Legion is the only one meant to be evil and even then they arent comically evil but rather a society that supports abuse and is doomed to fail Caesar's vision.

Yet that's not how they were depicted them in the actual game.

I think the idea of an apocalypse inherently draws in would-be anarchists, so it comes with the territory

>house
>bad

>house and legion are “obvious villains”
You’re fucking retarded
>fallout 4 does a better job of making the factions have moral grey areas
No it doesn’t
>Skyrim is better
That part is probably the only thing about your post that isn’t fucking retarded

>No it doesn’t

Which faction is the obvious villain in Fallout 4?

The institute and the BOS are literally painted to be authoritarian monsters who murder anybody they don’t like, and the minutemen and the railroad are the fighters for independence and saving lives. The railroad is fucking retarded to be fair, and the minutemen are a fucking joke considering your character is basically the only one, but the institute and BOS are literally both made out to be shitty groups that do shitty things.

If you know the BOS lore than realistically it all makes sense, but considering to turn a settlement into a BOS settlement you basically have to threaten people and the main cocksucker acts like a cocksucker 24/7, it really shows you what they wanted the BOS to be

It's like Deus Ex. One faction you can side with is OBVIOUSLY the good one, but which faction that is depends on the player.
I'd pick House over NCR.

The institute, a faction with no goals besides kidnapping people and replacing them with robots

you're off the mark a bit there buddy. the fuck up wasn't exactly obsidian's fault, it was when beth cut a year off their development time and they only had 18 months to make the game. legion territory was low on the priority.

but the thing is, legion was never supposed to be morally grey further than its people living safe lives (as long as they do exactly what the legion says) where they have no freedom or rights. in a nutshell, the point of legion was to show how despotic rulers rise and hold power, and if the player wants to be part of that, they can be. (source: josh sawyer Q&A)

I know people that are 100% convinced BoS are good in Fallout 4 because "Have you played Fallout 3? They're the good guys."

But they also have invaluable knowledge and your son.

its worse than somalia, it's modern america

>He actually chooses to win the war for this fuckface and let him become president
Why would you do something like that?

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i really like this game but god damn they need to remaster it not on fallout 4 mod an actual remake with that browny/orange filter to give it that dusty western vibe an updated graffics an textures an combat ect maybe even add in a dlc if bethesda does it

Legion and House are the only good choices though. Only redditors think Yes Man or NCR is better.

This should be more then enough of a reason to not side with NCR. If retards like him get promoted to general because he kissed Kimballs ass enough while guys like Hsu and Hanlon get pushed to the sidelines, then NCR needs to sort out it's shit before it thinks about pushing any further.

>Legion
Debatable but fair.
>House
Absolutely not.

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Even someone that supports the NCR has to agree that any ending where Oliver actually gets praised is a bad ending for the NCR. Only the biggest pussywhipped cuck would blindly let Oliver acquire more power.

how is House a villain? he's going to take humanity to the stars, user

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>NCR ending is the best ending
lmao eat shit obsidiot nigger

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samefaggot seething

>Deus Ex. One faction you can side with
What?

what's better
a tyrant all about bettering his reign
a megalomaniac hell bent to build a failure
or a false democracy where you'd get taxed your ass all the way to the Boneyard
?

Never knew this, sounds like a cool idea. Thanks user

Legion is the only option no house no ncr and no wildcard I stand with the legion ave true to kaesar

To nuke the surface as a restart button for a new future. That's my take on it at least.

why are people criticism legion based on the ethics of current irl society? you should make observations from the viewpoint of a wastelander living in post civilized world.

I cant believe i ever hated this game. I cant even go play 3 anymore.

>he didnt disconnect house leave him alive to suffer.
why let house run the strip when youre doing the heavy lifting?

Legion sucks so much and its literally a spit on what Romans are
if Julius Caesar led the Legion he would be
building roads and bridges so its easier to travel to certain places
he would be adapting by using the latest technology because he would never allow himself to gain a disadvantage over his enemy
he would personally be at battles to lead his men instead of hiding in his fort
but no, this fucking wannabe Roman is just "HUR DUR USE MELEE BRO NO TECHNOLOGY"

Has anyone watched this video? If so, what's your opinion on it?
He convinced me when he made me relize that FO:NV has almost no dungeons, while FO3 is packed full of them.

youtube.com/watch?v=5z8XHe2NoAE

>MATN
that's gonna be a big yikes with a side of oof for me dude

because you're just some wastelander who doesn't know the first fucking thing about running a nation? Or if you do, do you also have extensive knowledge on how to operate Mr. house's tech? Oh, you're going to hope Yes Man doesn't end up backstabbing you and starting a robot uprising, despite him openly admitting he'll turn on you the first chance he gets?
The entire point of Mr. House's questline is accepting his vision for humanity, and it's HIS vision.

yikes

What? House is portrayed as neutral

>B-but muh 10 INT 10 CHA courier!

So you're one of those retards who thinks dictatorship is bad no matter what? Even though House is down to be a very moral and righteous man

>everyone in New Vegas doesn't like Mr. House, but they obey out of fear
>He's seen as the lesser of two evils because apart from the NCR, the other option is the fucking Legion
He's not neutral and not even portrayed as such. He's a Left-Wing Authoritarian.

But it's possible to do a pacifist run. Is it natural? I dunno it depends on who's playing and their sensibilities on violence upon videogame characters

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Elven Jews. Literally controlling an empire from the shadows. Doesn't sound like nazis at all, they opposed imperialism.

yes, the husk in the pod who spent 100 years waiting for a fuckin pokerchip and cant successfully project force without the wastelander should totally keep the keys to the strip. you convinced me. baste and cuckpilled

There are canonically a massive horde of them, so many that they can afford casualties. The war is only 5vs5 NPC fights in the game because of Bethesdas incompetence at making a halfway decent game engine.

dips bedora*

House is not a villain. He says himself that he doesn't care what people do with their personal liberties, and that's reflected in the variance of the three families in the strip. You have the Omertas who are the bog-standard degenerate thugs and criminals, the Chairmen who are the definition of middle-class mild-mannered, and the White Glove Society who are polite and may or may not be cannibals, Mr. house doesn't care either way.

He only cares about driving forward the industries of humanity. About making progress that can be objectively measured. There is a whole lot of bad that can be said about that sort of ideology, but his intentions are not to ruin people's day for the hell of it like the Legion.
In fact, he's pretty much the opposite of the Legion. He only cares for industrious progress while Caesar only cares about social progress.

aww poor babby, itll be alright. one day you'll grow a spine and stop being a tool for others to use and discard.

3 has fun exploration but main quests are awful and the are like 5 side quests in the entire game. Everything in main quest goes one way no matter what.
NV has actual branching paths in each main quest that change the course of the story immensely. There are like over 40 side artists in addition, all of which are great.

Which do you think sounds better? I like both but fo3 really has nothing else to it than exploring places, the writing is pure cringe and the quests are not nearly as good as in NV. Some DLCs are great, but in NV all the DLCs are fantastic.

yeah I'm sure your wickedly nihilistic and highly intelligent courier could do a better job kek

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What?

>Now that the husk has a right hand man to act as his will in the wasteland, let's cut him off life-support and watch his plans fall to dust
You're right, he needs someone to act as his agent of change. Seems pretty retarded to use that as an excuse to not be his agent of change.

I mean, your brain needs your body in order to do anything at all. Might as well throw out your brain since the body is doing all the work, amirite?

>blonde
>tall
>expansionist/imperialist
>obsessed with racial purity and obscure metaphysics

Yes /pol/, they are clearly like jews.

not to mention the fact that the dunmer are clearly the fucking jews.

better than being a house cuck. powerful people rise, powerful people fall. such is life. also house is an idealistic fag.

nice strawman. also youre putting alot of faith into someone who has no reason to keep the wastelander around after getting what he wants. like i said to the other user, one day youll grow a spine and take your own life by the reins instead of relying on others to keep your best interests in mind.

>cuck
stop saying this dumb shit, you sound like a faggot

t.literal cuckold

You’re assuming the literal post apocalyptic wasteland is an easy place to live. House’s dictatorship is benevolent, remember he wants to kick out the NCR but leave open trade and communication with them. He also said he’d step down once humanity got on good feet again.
The man isn’t merciless or without fault but putting House on the same level as the literal legion of rapists and mass murderers on the basis he wants to be a sole ruler of his land to his subjects can thrive in peace is insane

Is that a strawman? You seriously can't make the connection between house being the visionary and the courier being the agent of change? That's literally the relationship between brain and body.
House would keep you around because you'd be loyal to him and as you said yourself, he NEEDS someone to enact his will.
Jesus christ user, you're better than this

woah dude, i'm the other faggot shilling Mr. house hardcore but you can't just assume he'd step down. If you choose House you have to do it on the basis that he's dictator for (multiple) life despite what he says.

holy shit the absolute state of cucks. house would get rid of the courier because the courier is the biggest threat to house. after unlocking his army of upgraded robots, realistically, house doesnt need the courier to project force.

>House
>Villain
is that what amerifags actually think?

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Do you feel like a big boy when you swing your internet dick around? How long has it been since you had a discussion without throwing around a random handful of buzzwords? Do you think anyone thinks that your argument is better off for it?

The securitrons are a meaningful army but they certainly lack the understanding of nuance that *some* humans have, according to House himself.
No doubt House would have a contingency plan in place, but yet again, he says himself that he'll wait until you make the move. There's a good chunk of dialogue devoted to shooting down your concerns user, I suggest you give the questline a try before you run your mouth even more.

I'm not saying house is the obvious right choice, just that your specific reason for over-throwing him is fucking retarded.

"he says he wont fuck me so I believe him"

also if banter hurts your fee fees then maybe 4skin isnt for you.

>House
>Villain

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>use and discard
>ending outright states how the Courier lives a life of luxury for his service to house and he pretty much gets you whatever you want, out of gratitude and either respect/fear for a good/bad karma courier
Don't forget you never tell House about Yes Man, so there is nothing stopping you from taking over anytime you wish should you decide to grab power at a later date.

My fee fees are 100% ok tyvm
Your post would have been MORE effective if you had deleted your opening sentence. It didn't add anything to the discussion, just makes you look like a tryhard faggot and as if your opinion is even more retarded and worthless than it originally was because you're one of those mindless drones who vomit out the current trendy-speak because if you don't fit in on your anonymouse vietnamese coffee-art board then you might look like a "cuck"

Or in simpler words for a special guy like you; if you want to hurt my fee fees put some effort into it.

This. There's not really anyone out there as skilled as the courier since they can pretty much kill anything, why the fuck would House drop your ass when you're the best agent he could possibly get? Only retarded Yes cucks think he'll kill you later.

Even in those other two games theres no real compromise to a middle ground. Ultimately is up to the player to decide what's the middleground themselves.

A tyrannical, incompetent republic that's betrayed the principles of its founders for expansionism and greed.

>he says himself that he'll wait until you make the move
Not him but I don't recall this.

>House
>Villain

Dumb fucking goy

B-B-BUT MY BROTHERHOOD THO

>both the Legion and House are villains
>House
>Villain
How fucking retarded are you

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I know how the game ends for every faction. what Im saying is realisticly house doesnt need the courier after the platinum chip upgraded. all that house has to do is close tops casino again then the courier is SOL and wont even have the option for a coup.

seething

>House's faggot brother cucks him out of his inheritance
>Proceeds to make his own company and us so successful he buys out his brother and makes him his bitch
How can one man be so Chad?

meant lucky 23 casino

Why would he close the tops down if he doesn't even know about Yes Man unless you told him you fucking brainlet? House needs a capable agent to get shit done, and the courier depending on how you play him goes above and beyond his expectations. You're a valuable asset and as long as you continue to be one (which shouldn't be hard considering you become a cyborg from OWB and will likely be in your prime for even longer then most humans) you won't have a problem and House will be more then willing to get you what you want and will provide every comfort he can provide to you.

Can we all stop for a second and appreciate the fact that we're able to legitimately debate the ideologies of different factions for this janky mess of a game, with the occasional bethdesdrone fishing for (You)s. New Vegas threads are always a treat, I love you fellow Couriers.

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NV and dmc threads are the main reasons I come to this shithole.

Successful bait thread, but heres a quick rundown (its not limited to this, but this handles alot of it)

NCR:
Good:
>Has many members with genuine good intentions who want nothing but peace and prosperity
>When they get around to it, have a formidable fighting force
>Capable of maintaining trade networks over a huge area so many little communities are able to survive
Bad:
>Many members are corrupt, seek only to better their own situation. Bribery and lobbying are at an all time high.
>Stark levels of bureaucracy mean that definitive military (or other) action can be delayed during a situation or need
>Very ambitious, want to seize territory no matter what the inhabitants feel
>dont care if people dont want to join, will force them to
>Taxes that many cant afford

Legion
Good:
>Legion controlled territory is amongst the safest in the US, communities can live in peace and not ever be harassed by anything
>Raiders and mutants or any issue dealt with swiftly without mercy or extensive politics
>allows tax free trade, along very safe roads as long as contraband like drugs arent being traded
>Provides identity and affiliation via pax romana tactics, banding all members under one unifying banner and through that ensuring the place of humanity above the individual, as this is about surviving the apocalypse

Bad:
>Brutal, swift response to uprising or protest against the dictator
>limited rights for many individuals
>slavery, brood mares
>cruel and unusual punishment

I mean sure, if you have the IQ of a shoe, of course New Vegas factions cant be grey, no spectrum ever can be in any media

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What about House and Yes Man?

It actually says how well and flesh out New Vegas was written that we can still have discussions about what is the best choice

Like not to shit on Fallout 4 yet again (I actually like the gameplay loop of Fallout 4) but when was the last time you've actually seen an indepth discussion about which factions are the best with minimal conjecture e.g. what if Institute had X

ah yes, another buzzword to deflect away from genuine discussion. I appreciate the lack of them in your reply to that other user, though. Don't forget to reply to this one with yet another buzzword to really "show me".

house
>redpilled
yes man
>reddit

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I could put those down as well but I was worried about space and it being too long

well we're here to discuss the factions user, give us your take

You know 4chins will tell you when it's over 2K character right?

>Meanwhile in Skyrim both the Empire and the Stormcloacks

False.
Fake Sweden belongs to fake Swedes and everyone else either leaves or dies. There is no gray area whatsoever. Invaders must always die no matter what.

Go on ahead, I'd like to hear your take.

Mr. House:
Good:
>Be rich as fuck
>Gamble, fuck prostitutes, and chems all day
>Life extending cybernetics
>NAP enforced by robots with rocket launchers
>Go to fucking space

Bad:
>Greedy people gamble all their money away
>Stupid people will starve
>Greedy and stupid people will get shot

I thought you were supposed to list bad things under the "bad" header?

House isnt evil, he's just an asocial autist

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The moral grey area is "wait the Legion aren't just straight guys and have a whole quest line?"

Its not a masterpiece. Nobody worth talking about says as much. What it is, is a flawed game with great ideas. The inverse of a polished turd. And that's all it took to be better than Fallout 3 and 4.

Not that I even think 3 is that bad. Its fun too.

4 can fuck itself though.

I recently replayed NV and I'm actually not sure if I like the writing all too much. I mean on the whole the quality is definitely there, but so many characters are just walking exposition dumps that it becomes a bit tiring. Every literal who character knows about the history of this and that and will explain them to you in great detail. The pacing is very off, for example if you exhaust all the dialogue in the beginning of OWB it takes like, what, 40 minutes? Space it out a little so it's more comfortable to digest. There's not enough of "show, don't tell". I'm very conflicted on it overall.

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It may not be a masterpiece but it’s still my favourite game.