Fantasy setting

The literal point of FF is that these characters do have the balls to use closecombat weapons against huge beasties, you stupid mouth-breather

and people who use those were officers. aka soldiers who don't fight

Was it autism?

Where does Barret keep the ammo for his minigun?

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I only see this as a problem when the characters are supposed to be regular humans. If you're a super soldier or a cyborg or whatever, I can suspend my disbelief enough to believe that your sword hits harder than any handheld firearm ever could.

It is. But also remember that, whenever you run into regular soldiers, they tend to be holding machine guns/assault rifles. It just so happens that everyone in your party is among the few people to have Materia/superpowers/a gun already grafted onto their arm. Only SOLDIER uses melee weapons, and they're explicitly superhuman.

9mm harpoons would be reasonable.
9mm normal ammo? Its like using a baselard, nobody wants to willingly use a baselard if they could have something far more better.

I always have disliked that these faggots create the most non-practical weapons and clothing for the sake of looking different, on characters that are constantly fighting and traveling... It doesn't look "cool", it doesn't look good.

In his dick.

Whoopsies I ran out if bullets

I'll throw my gun at the enemy like a memer

Theoretically it should be, but it's also sold in every grocery store on Gaia. OG VII couldn't make up its mind.

>fantasy game
>not realistic
wow

>buster sword doesn't look cool

Final Fantasy weapons have always been badass except for pic related.

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Ammo is stored in the balls.

>Final Fantasy weapons have always been badass

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cylindrical chamber

or maybe FF7 guns are magic that shoot materia created projectiles

>kicking a ball into your opponent's face
>not cool

You've got some pretty shitty taste, bro.

Cloud's clothes are pretty tame in terms of practicality. Barret too. Aerith is even pretty much just wearing a dress. people like Vincent and Sephiroth are clearly designed to stand out though.

if you're badass enough to use a ball as a weapon and be able to win using it, that earns the cool points itself.

>playing with balls is cool
t. faggots

He's better than Khimari, who has one obligatory fight and that's it, and the only reason to level him up.

>there's no way in hell FF7R will even come close to trying to evoke the original art like this

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Barret uses a gun but sword seems to do more damage usually.

When you're right, you're right.

Still, these fags get to swing both ways without any resistance or opposition, so it's hard to determine whether or not they are fags or Gods.

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just show them the Smash Bros model of Cloud and tell them that they don't need to make it super realistic to look good.

The better question is why arent there more flying vehicles in the world if a rando mechanic is capable of making such a tool.

This is true of most FFs actually.

Not a FF weapon

>Realism is the end of art

They were right bros

>gameplay has Shinra soldiers' attacks being almost ineffective
>Zack gets killed because the bullets against him had a more realistic effect

Gameplay and story segregation will always bother me.

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>using guns
>maintaining guns
>managing ammo
>in a setting where i have essentially no upper limit to the amount of physical strength + endurance i can achieve
>in a setting where anyone can immediately heal themselves
dude let me just stand here and pew pew instead of going ape shit with my huge fucking sword

because sword are cool and kinda have more stopping power. If you are fast and strong super human, why waste bullets?
Fighting with some kind of stick would be retarded thou.

>killed

You mean implied killed. We all know the bathroom guy is him living under a new identity in the slums.

The real question would be why do the soldiers let their enemies have a turn to strike back.

They don't. stop using anything other than Active ATB

Even with active ATB they arent unloading their mags into you and give you a few moments to fight back.

That's more of his Dissidia design aspects, especially the less stylized face and some of the outfit, but sad thing is Smash Cloud would still be better than what SE has done with the classic design and probably will proceed to do.

I strongly disagree. When you're designing a character for something like a fantasy or soft science fiction setting, it's a perfectly valid strategy to design them in such a way as to communicate who they are/what they do. This is often done poorly, but when it's done with actual purpose, it really goes a long way to sell the audience on a character. Yeah, oversized swords would never be a practical weapon even if you did have super strength, but it immediately gets the point across without a word of dialogue. This goes double for characters like Guts from Berserk, who have an in-story justification for wanting such a massive blade (in his case, he fights very large monsters and so he needs a very large sword). Practicality should really only be a concern when you're trying to tell a realistic story.

I know what you mean, but technically the sequence of events is:
>Zack runs offscreen to fight some unseen foe
>returns to check on Cloud
>looks up and gets gunned down by soldiers he presumably didn't know were there
You could just as easily assume that he was already extremely worn out and caught off-guard. I also tend to assume that "HP" is just an abstraction used to represent the character dodging/blocking/taking indirect blows until they get tired.

Start naming games or other media franchises where a good in-universe explanation is provided for characters wielding melee weapons in a gun-filled universe, because I know there are some

50 caliber isn't so expensive if you're going to be hunting megabeasts.

Wasn't that mostly just officers and technologically stunted nations that can't put a rifle in every man's hands?

not just officers. It was a secondary weapon but swords have been most of the time a secondary weapon throughout history, with some exceptions.

Phantasy Star

>Teammate offers me a gun.
>Doesn't realize that I'm a Fantasy Hero.
>Doesn't realize that I can attack opponents perfectly from miles away.
>I don't want to be mean to him, though.
>"No thanks, Gun Friend, I've got my Buster Sword."
>Later during the day.
>Evil mage bad guy starts summoning meteors.
>Gun Friend shoots at the meteor with his tiny bullets.
>lel.
>I swing my greatsword once and perfectly slice the meteor in half.
>In a split second, I cut the rest of the meteor millions of times from a distance
>It's completely turned into dust, no collateral damage.
>Gun Friend cheers me on.
>I instantly teleport in front of the Evil mage bad guy
>I turn him into ten thousand perfectly cut pieces.
>mfw I didn't even need magic.
>mfw my party's only mage is a healslut that I constantly dick down while at savepoints.
Realismfags are SEETHING.

If you run out of bullets you're fucked, might as well carry a sword

Yeah, at a time when guns could fire one shot before a 6-minute reload and weren’t accurate beyond 50 feet. Notice that you said melee weapons were used alongside firearms right up until the time that the revolver mechanism was becoming widespread; AKA, guns developed the ability to fire more than once and could be reloaded with ease.

Materia Booster packs, you got your commons, uncommons, rares, and legendaries. Stores are chock full of commons

What’s the explanation given?

Bayonets give you better reach though. A sword is a sword, a rifle is a gun,spear, and bludgeon all in one.

>I also tend to assume that "HP" is just an abstraction used to represent the character dodging/blocking/taking indirect blows until they get tired.
I’d like to play an action game designed this way. Instead of “HP”, characters have a “defense” stat. When you hit them, their “hit stun” animation is them deflecting or avoiding the blow. When their defense-HP is 0, the enemy’s strike actually connects, killing them instantly.

Cavalry used swords and spears right until rifling improved accuracy to lethal levels in the last half of 1800.

Xenoblade X
Devil May Cry
Warframe

No, there were footsoldiers and guardsmen who carried them. It took a while to reload guns, so if there was ever a situation where you needed to attack someone right that second you’d either take out a pistol or a sword

A rifle is not a sidearm

Because it's fantasy

Anything that’s explained away with MAGIC, BITCH is often good enough for me

Also MGR

The OG assassin's Creed actually worked this way if I remember correctly.

The closest i've seen to this is in The Banner Saga, where your HP are also your STR stat, the more damage you recieve, the less you're effective at fighting.

What are the explanations given?

I feel like DMC’s goes too far the other way (“only demon-weapons can kill the demonic hordes”, which makes you wonder why Dante bothers with actual guns)

Warframe’s is not that good at all, it’s a handwave at best unless you know some lore shit I don’t.

>what is artistic liberty

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Churchill

This is only a part of the wider issue, which is:

>Game takes place in a world with technology and level of civilization far more advanced than our own.

>Despite said technology and level of civilization, the world functions like a standard medieval fantasy world, with small settlements separated by vast, uncharted expanses of wilderness filled with wild beasts and roving bandits, and characters still using medieval weaponry

I don't get why jrpgs love this trope. What is the point of going with a future setting if it's functionally and thematically identical to a medieval fantasy world?

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Should defense be
>How much damage you take when you get hit
Or
>How likely you are to get hit

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Uncharted does this.

Defense should be the ability to avoid a hit, weapon - armor determines how much you get hit for

No, you could get struck and would react like you were wounded. OG asscreed instead used “you’re diverting too far from historical reality, link severed” instead of HP, though.

I’m not saying it should mathematically affect gameplay, more that “enemy deflecting attacks until he gets hit and dies” is a more interestig visual representation of multi-strike combat than “enemy gets smacked around like he’s in plate mail and your sword is a baseball bat until he finally just dies from a hit”

>Comparing normal people to mad jack

Why would you use a real life action hero as an example?

Monster Hunter.

DMC has the demon folks using melee weapons since they can not only hit harder with the magic swords and shit but also take shots casually like it´s nothing.

Xenoblade X has a similar reason, only that the characters are actually cyborgs with super strenght

Warframe states that when the sentients attacked, they were immune to all the high tech weapons they had and rekted everything in their path. The solution was to roll back to ancient weapons (i.e melee and bows) as those were still effective against then. Since then, even with other enemies there being vulnerable to regular weapons, the tradition of using melee was kept as status and preparation for another sentient attack

because magic

B-Because the people in the video game are superheroes?

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Canonically, Cloud can resist bullets, and his sword can somehow cut through giant robots, hell monsters and tanks by technical basis. Perks of having alien DNA injected into your veins, kind of renders using a gun moot.

Why not just turn the second one into an evade stat and have both? The only problem is that evade tanking/stacking seems to always be either completely busted or absolutely useless compared to 'normal' defense and I don't think I've ever seen a middle ground.

SAO used that concept actually, because you can see their HP go down as they exert themselves without really taking full hits.

>PS1-4 Bounty Hunters exist and some just prefer a weapon that isn't a gun, have a laser sword why the fuck not
>PS1-4 Powerful biomonsters are widespread and sometimes it's better to bring a shield to a claw fight
>PS4 Medieval society living in a post space faring society, generally stick with what they know

In AC you have the vague idea that 'This wasn't how this was suppose to happen. Altair wasn't a scrub'
Which just means if you get hit, Altair was a scrub, so it wasn't how it happened.
And on the same note: Ezio has a armor mechanic, where the idea is that he got hit: But the armor stops the damage. But Ezio still has the same hurt animation as Altair despite armor being armor, making it even more disconnected.

Both.
A glancing blow is a miss, but you hit the person. But where one where incapable of hitting at a angle where the attacks actually bites into the armor and force gets transfered into the armored.
Like why do you think armor tends to be extremely spherical?

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kinda true, as you can just assume that nate is gettin grazed by most of the bullets and the one that gets him is the one that kills him, this is kinda undone by getting one shotted by a shotgun to the face.

>whoops my sword broke, I guess I'll just wait back here... Reorganize the potions or something

>Devil May Cry

I really don't know. In-unvierse you could do all guns all the time. Melee weapons just do more damage. It's about game-balance, but real world logic should say guns are stronger.

>Warframe states that when the sentients attacked, they were immune to all the high tech weapons they had and rekted everything in their path. The solution was to roll back to ancient weapons (i.e melee and bows) as those were still effective against then. Since then, even with other enemies there being vulnerable to regular weapons, the tradition of using melee was kept as status and preparation for another sentient attack
I know that lore, but there’s so many holes.
>the justification for “ancient” melee weapons is also the justification for “ancient” lead-flinging gunpowder artillery like pistols and rifles, which still outclass melee weapons
>The game is full of high-tech cybernetic weapons anyway, many of which we wield with a high degree of regularity
>you can actually fight a bunch of types of sentients in the game, and they adapt to your “ancient” weapons just as well as your high-tech ones, and are only actually WEAK to your space void magic

I'll take broken sword over a gun with no bullets, at least the broken sword was still originally meant to be swung whereas swinging a gun and smacking people with it can damage it and cause it to misfire at some point.

Dante/nero/vergil enhance the weapons, both melee and firearms with magic energy. Melee just works best for them. See Lady for exemple. She doesn´t have a real melee weapon, just the bayonet in her fuckin missle launcher, since she´s a regular human and melee isn´t viable for her

BECAUSE ITS COOL LOOKING, DUMB NIGGER

WHAT ELSE DO YOU NEED?

>Whoopsies I ran out if bullets
>I'll throw my gun at the enemy like a memer
Wtf are you talking about? It's not as if these jrpgs keep track of your ammo for guns (or arrows for bows). Ammo is pretty much limitless in these games.

>you can actually fight a bunch of types of sentients in the game, and they adapt to your “ancient” weapons just as well as your high-tech ones, and are only actually WEAK to your space void magic

That´s probably more in the realm of "we fucked up the lore, don´t think about it" than anything else. I do believe that the original intent was for swords and shit being the only real option against then. And glass, for some reason, as stated by Gara´s story

Neither is a 6 foot sword, but I like this thread already and this is the first chain I read.

But the original lore also gave this reason for space ninjas to be using machine guns instead of laser cannons.

My point being, it was never a great explanation. At least the mechanical (ha ha) explanation of melee weapons, bows, etc., being silent and therefore conducive to stealth makes some amount of sense.

It was turn based. Lore wise, those attacks either missed or where glancing wounds.

>implying

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Considering we do have beam canons and the like (opticor, battacor) I can only assume they completely ignored that bit of lore or the high tech weapons they used before the ancients was even more advanced than that

>dude what if we add like 50 blades on this
I too was 14 once

It would provide a decent lore reason for why a civilization with the technological capability to create immortal human-cyborg puppets and live forever didn’t just nuke the Sentient menace from orbit with some sort of Death-Star-Halo-Ring planetary annihilator, and instead creating a race of footsoldiers.

It doesn’t explain why those footsoldiers would all go to battle strapped with a bo staff or broadsword alongside their plasma shotguns and rapid-fire homing rifles.

>Fantasy setting
>Cloaks count as armor

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Maybe they just used then for training and decided to take melee weapons into battle for the heck of it. It´s not like they can´t use then anyway and we´re talking about a bunch of teenagers with super powers after all. I know if teenager me could have taken a cook sword into war against aliens he´d sure as hell do it

Honestly I think that’s probably the best actual lore reason the game has for it, even though they never fully articate it; “take a bunch of unsupervised nerd teenagers and let them pilot remote control mercenaries, of course they’re gonna be turbo-weebs with katanas and shit”

Oh no, how did it go from cool to not cool? Maybe your tastes are just shit, mate. Maybe other people and their likings aren't the problem here.

Nah I materia occurs naturally and some people even collect and sell them. They aren't even necessarily that expensive.

This. More so for his original artwork.

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Maybe it's like in Metal Gear where Raiden is so strong that his body can produce more force than any feasible gun.

Fuck Nomura

HURRRR MUH REALISM MUH PRACTICALITY MUUUH ACTION BASED.
You fucks destroyed gaming kys. KYS.

>using magic when mako guns exist
Bigger question. Literally anyone can fire a mako gun that produces the same magic as leveled elemental materia.

Can it's fucking fantasy. You just said this yourself.

Maori used Taiahas (spears) in WW1 and dominated the field

Interrupting arrows, tangling on the hilts of enemy swords in close quarters, hiding the defender and usually magical effects. Their armor bonuses themselves are mostly minor.

>Gunlets so mad that a character would rather throw a ball than carry a gun

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>In a split second, I cut the rest of the meteor millions of times from a distance
>I instantly teleport in front of the Evil mage bad guy
>mfw I didn't even need magic.

What did he mean by this?

He's implying he could've dealt with all that without cutting the meteors from a distance or teleporting.

Bruh officers got into fights after the US started killing British officers during the revolutionary war. It was bad manners prior to kill officers because they were usually people of wealth. After that it was everyman that could shoot was fighting.

This is what 3D Final Fantasy 7 should look like. Not like modern Final Fantasy does.

Semantics.

The point is that people who only have physical power and speed can act inhuman, basically appearing to have no movement as if they are warping reality. It's like the Flash, or maybe Vergil, if you saw them from a normal human perspective.

>Gun misfiring with no bullets

A bulletproof vest makes guns useless. Nothing can stop a supersoldier wielding a 7 foot cleaver from taking your head off.

Fucking noguns

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Who needs guns when you can speed blitz people?

I agree with your point, but a bulletproof vest doesn't stop headshots, much less lasers or rockets.

>fantasy setting, you have creative freedom to do whatever you want for the sake of design, gameplay, or narrative
>"but what about muh realism?"

When I was a kid I used to think realistic settings in games were for mature people, now I see that I was wrong. Realism is for autists too retard to suspend disbelief.

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more like al dead

>thinks Cloud is a super soldier
Idiot.

smt and mortal kombat gets this right

magic does magical hit but in terms of doing pure damage it can be equaled by weapons and guns

A bulletproof vest won’t even stop the third round of a standard 3-round burst, or any of a variety of higher-caliber ammos.

And even if it does stop a bullet, that bullet is still putting you square on your ass with a bruised ribcage, gasping for air and trying to remember where you are. Because distributing 580 foot-pounds of force across an area the size of your chest may stop a bullet from tearing through your lungs or heart, but it won’t stop it from hitting like a 580-pound weight on your chest.

Why does Goku Punch things instead of carrying a glock?

Isn’t it canon that he’s too strong for bullets to even affect? Same goes for most of his opponents. Goku and co can easily punch holes in mountains with a force that would make tank shells wet with jealousy, what the hell good would a handgun do?

The point of this discussion is scenarios when a weapon is used by a hero despite being canonically weaker in that game’s own universe than a gun.

he was taken down by a space pistol

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If your sword breaks you're fucked, might as well use your fists

Was he actually, or was it ki-powered in some way? Because most of the DB-universe characters do have “guns” in the form of ki projectiles, and they generally ARE superior to regular punches/kicks/the occasional sword, and basically aren’t used all the time because it (essentially) saves ammo.

I remember a scene in Dragon Ball were kid Goku was using the restroom at someone's house and two soldier barged in and shot up the bathroom with automatic weapons while he was taking a shit and while kinda hurt, he was totally fine.

If you lvl up you gain extra strength to hit people with a sword harder, but a gun wil always be a gun with the same damage output

Duuuuuh

Cloud is seen using an assault rifle in ff7

the very first thing bulma does when seeing goku is to shot him in the head
while powerlevels are retarded in db, goku was always nearly immune to gunshots

Most terrible Frieza grunts would be planet destroying monsters if they had training.
Instead they have no training or form, and has to rely on gimmicks refining their raw power.

guns are limited by technology and they're not a flexible tool
swords are limited by the fantasy strength of the character - so basically unlimited - und have more applications than just to kill

Yeah. That's magic.

Swords are limited by the technology too. You can only swing a sword so hard before it breaks

>guns are limited by technology
>in fantasy
barret literally has a gun kamehameha special

then what happens when you run out of cash for ammo for that sidearm? Cloud was thinking years ahead,idiot.

>ff7
>ammo

Fuck off zoomer go play apex dirty nigger.

>thinking any kind of gun of any kind runs on air.
You don't seriously think people would actually sell guns that have infinite ammo with no reason to come back and buy more shit.

Barret shoots laser beams, mind destroying bombs, and grenades from his gun. I'm pretty sure ammo isn't an issue.

"Any officer who goes into action without his sword is improperly dressed."
-John Malcolm Thorpe Fleming Churchill, also called Mad Jack

Churchill gave the signal to attack by raising his claymore. Jack managed to start the ambush by killing one of the Germans with his longbow, proceeded by his men opening fire on the remaining Germans.

As the ramps fell on the first landing craft, he leapt forward from his position playing "March of the Cameron Men" on his bagpipes, before throwing a grenade and charging into battle.

With the help of a corporal, he infiltrated the town and captured the post, taking 42 prisoners including a mortar squad. Churchill led the men and prisoners back down the pass, with the wounded being carried on carts pushed by German prisoners. He commented that it was "an image from the Napoleonic Wars."

Churchill later walked back to the town to retrieve his sword, which he had lost in hand-to-hand combat with the German regiment.

A mortar shell killed or wounded everyone but Churchill, who was playing "Will Ye No Come Back Again?" on his pipes as the Germans advanced.

Churchill was said to be unhappy with the sudden end of the war, saying: "If it wasn't for those damn Yanks, we could have kept the war going another 10 years!"

It's primarily for killing large, armored foes. Shit like the Buster Sword and Masamune are apparently impossible tough and sharp, and given the supernatural physical abilities of SOLDIERs, it's just more effective when dealing with those kinds of targets. On the other hand, for those like Turks who primarily deal with human targets, they tend to carry stuff like guns and stun batons.

>swords are limited by the fantasy strength of the character
It takes SOME strength to wield a sword well, but at the end of the day it is a bladed implement. An ordinary, not-superhuman person can swing a sword with enough force to cut a motherfucker nearly in half, superhuman strength shouldn’t be helping that to “scale up”. The limiting factor is how sharp (and sturdy) the blade is versus what you swing it at.

If you have superhuman strenght, hitting enemy with a sword does more damage than a gun

JRPGs very often have tough, armored monster enemies. Some strength is necessary.

o_O

How do you figure that’s the case? My car has more strength than any person, but if I mount a knife to the grill and drive into a brick wall the knife’s not gonna slash into the brick wall, it’s just gonna shatter.

>i'm going to apply real world logic to a fantasy video game
Okay.

It’s not like if you swing a sword hard enough, it can cut anything. If the armor the enemies wear is able to reliably stop a sword, the reason for this is because it is harder and more durable than the sword itself. Swing as hard as you want, you’ll shatter (or bend) the sword blade around the armor SUPER hard but that doesn’t mean your strength translates to more total killing power. The whole point of a bladed implement in general is the enormous mechanical advantage it provides to your swing.

Is that not the theme of this thread?

Going off dragonball feats is a total waste of effort and yet people do it anyway.
He could sprint entire valleys casually in the gaggier side and Roshi can atomize the moon but blowing up islands and being able to afterimage is a big deal suddenly in ToP.

On the Dissidia side if he were to unsheathe that sword he will be using the blunt side.

No but it helps. A lumberjack with noodly arms probably isn't going to cut many trees.

It fucking hurts when someone gets a ball kicked in their face though.

No.

But a brick has a complex density based hardness, large flesh and sheet metal doesn't.

That argument would work if armor worked like tree trunks, and the reason it stopped a sword was that it was a foot and a half thick and it relied on friction to slow it down as it began cutting through. And maybe for certain Giant Monster Enemy hides that argument might make some sense. But the reason armor works (and arguably, Giant Monster Enemy Scales) is because it’s harder, meaning the mechanical advantage provided by a sharpened edge is not enough to split it.

Swing a sword at a rock, it’s not gonna cut through the rock. I don’t care if you have a nuclear-powered hydraulic press swinging it, you’ll shatter the sword into a million pieces before you cut through the rock.

You want a weapon where strength directly correlates to attack damage, give the enemy an enormous hammer or club or something. Something where the objective of the user is to accelerate its mass as much as possible into something else’s mass.

Swords are cool. It's really simple.

You don't have to level him even. Biran and Yenke levels are based around his level

Why would you pay or give them the swords as a contractor though?

>supersoldier
>cloud

we see one cutscene Zack put down by a gun. another cutscene supersoldier chad sephiroth slicing tifa and stabbing cloud but didn't kill either. another scene where cloud stabbing real seph but died only by vader style.

I don't know man. cloud is not some 1st class super soldier and never was. the ff7 logic quite bullshit

you think Wakka ever accidently killed a goalie in blitzball?