The MMORPG Genre

the MMO genre is already making its return
and its entirely nostalgia fueled

OSRS is the 2nd biggest MMO right now
and Classic WoW is gonna dominate the scene (again)

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>Will the MMORPG genre ever return
Yeah, whenever a decent VR one comes out.

Should i try tree of savior again anons? the mmorpg itch is strong and i've heard they fixed their game haha..

100% agreed. I still believe that Demon's souls (and other souls games, to varying extents) have the truly perfect multiplayer experience for a non-MMO game. Also makes me think about why a soulsborne-style MMO wouldn't work. Procedural generation but make stuff really hard to take over and control, but there are safe zones and towns that are not player-owned, simple player-controlled economy with a laissez-faire dev team, and just let the social aspect develop on its own. Devs search so hard for memeable stuff in their games without realizing that the best memes are organic, and controlling everything is the best way to suppress a feeling of community among the players. Just look at Overwatch, that shit is dying because of how authoritarian Blizzard has been. Waifus can only carry a game so far.

Im in the same boat as you, Im desperate dude Im desperate. FFXIV is even on my list due to all the Yea Forums threads shilling it lately

I remember being really excited for Ashes of Creation when it was announced, but it's kind of looking like it'll either a.) never come out and devs will cut and run or b.) come out in some half-baked bastardized form and the devs will cut and run

VRMMOs is the wave of the future.

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I fucking hated FFXIV. Paying monthly for a multiplayer game where you literally don't have to talk to another player EVER is retarded. Felt like a bunch of half-baked FF questlines mixed with occasional boring dungeons and watching my stuff go off cooldown.

>A seedy underbelly of scammers, trolls, and griefers is an integral component of making a game truly social

I don't want to associate with those people. They aren't even playing the game, just abusing it as a conduit to try to aggress against other people playing the game.

SAO is so fucking stupid.

What's this

DAMN, SAO GOT GOOD NOW?

Dear lord, please let a:ir be decent.

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What makes MMORPG's, Runescape in particular, is the people who play. I tried playing again, it's just not the same... Way too many dickheads - not in the fun way, the obnoxious way. No one's typing Limp Bizkit lyrics while chopping willows, my clan chat's gone, obviously. I busted my ass, killing unicorns in the wildy because I wanted a dragon platebody for soul wars. I never got one because it was expensive as all hell. The playerbase isn't there. There's nothing genuine, or authentic like it was when you played with classmates.

>>MOBAs on their way out

Lol no. Just because kids are playing battle royale doesn't mean the audience of MOBAs are leaving.

I still enjoy my time in EverQuest. I likely will keep playing off and on until they kill the servers.

Outside of that, im waiting for one of the City of Heroes successors to actually become a real video game.

B2P
More Coop-ish and less PVE
P2Fashion, not P2W

If anything, PSO2.

How is ESO these days? I just want something me and two friends can play and enjoy together

Worlds Adrift is actually really fun

Never. It was a once in an era thing, be thankful you were fortunate enough to experience it.

It's completely braindead. I had a group of 7 other best friends all get it and even with the shenanigans of 8 people who have known each other for 10 years we were too bored to go on halfway through the second area.

What I don't understand is how developers are somehow these days just UNABLE to make an MMO. Everything is either instanced or borderline turnbased, meanwhile we have a million battle royale games that manage to do this just fine. And yet somehow Ultima Online has more freedom and deeper mechanics than anything that's been released since.

I will be the savior of the MMO genre. You will have to wait a few years.

It has returned in the form of ARK: Survival Evolved.

It very well might be first. Blizzard doesn't display their playcount. OSRS has much higher google search count than WOW.

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I'm no game developer but I think it has something to do with mmos having more going than just a big deathmatch.

theres no way wow is below 200k subs
even the worst estimates are putting subcount at wow to be 1-2mil

osrs gets 120-30k players logged in concurrently during peak hours every day. They easily have way more than 200k active ones.

Except that's completely wrong because most MMOs don't have to simulate physics on anything other than player movement.

Runescape is a shittier version of the elder scrolls online

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I'm no game developer but I think mmos have more going on than just simulated physics.

You're not a very good conversationalist, but you probably know that.

Pantheon is lookin sexy with 3 factions world PvP and a classic wow world

Classic WoW is going to be BFA with 2004 graphics.

Fuck blizzard

yeah but I mean, WoW has roughly 1mil subs AT WORST
OSRS is nowhere near that, but its almost fighting XIV for 2nd

maybe RS3 is

No. Really.

This....VR is probably where that's going to happen.

When i played it the game felt like it.

Even the horrible idea of going to a far away land to do PvP instead of it being the whole world.

I didn't like the game.

Did it all, MUDs, 2d mmos, text based mmos (syrnia you are still my old love)...

I think im gonna start playing BDO soon, i heard it has tons of gathering skills like runescape and is AFK too, sounds cozy, just need that progression itch

Ehh, but I don't want to buy into all that equipment.

>Pantheon
>3 factions
>World pvp

You mean Camelot Unchained or is Pantheon actually gonna do all that as well?

Kickstarter MMOs will be a disappointment as usual, but there may be a few month's worth of entertainment in them.

OSRS will continue strong.

All the other modern MMOs (ESO, 14, etc) will continue to languish in slow decline while pretending to be successfu.

WoW Classic will be massively hyped, and will live well for about 1 year before showing significant problems. After 3 years, major cracks will form in its foundation and it will either change drastically or follow the same expansion release cycle as retail.
It will temporarily revive interest in MMOs, and some small, unique titles will show up out of nowhere in 4-6 years looking to capture that interest.

Thank you for the laugh.

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Thinking of playing OSRS right now as an IM and I never played the game before, any tips?

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The VR meme is dead user.

In reality we just need to wait for the current generation of MMOs to fade into obscurity and hope some grognards who know how to run a game server come along and create a passion project that jumpstarts the genre again.

Right now everyone keeps hyping up mediocre MMOs in some vain attempt to revive the genre, but by doing so it only kills it.

Worst still is the genre is stuck in the 90s in terms of basic gameplay, with the only advancement in the past 20 years being that you can spam your abilities faster with less lag issues thanks to less latency all around, and even then they've sacraficed a lot of the MMO aspects of MMOs in order to gain that 'action' combat.

Look up some guides and strats before you do so

Do you intend on PVPing? If so make a PVM character first

OSRS pretty much stands for Only Slayer Runescape, so just train combat, and your slayer skill until you can do the profitable slayer tasks, all the other skills are for very niche things, though leveling agility to 50ish using the rooftop courses and picking up marks of grace for a graceful set is a really good idea as it makes traveling less shitty.

It's too late, too many crybabies and retard made the genre fucking dead. Your best bet is to play multiplayer games that relies on a good balance of gameplay and social like pic related

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You can't save the genre.

Right now the two most popular MMOs on the market is WOW, and OSRS, both games are pretty much 99% soloable, which defeats the point of them being a fucking MMO in the first place.

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I'm going to play lotro on a legendary server

Not him but I activated my free week of members. Should bother getting Agility up for the energy regeneration, or does it not apply in F2P worlds.

Do waterfall quest (when you get members).
Train strength to at least 5 before training attack.
People will give you tons of free shit if you act like a cute noob. If you are not careful, this will kill the spirit of your progression.
Fuck around a lot, an don't take things too seriously.
The best part of the game, in my opinion, is when your assorted combat skills are in between levels 40 and 70. Before that era, and you are a noob trying to get his grasp on the world, after that era you become a slave to the grind.

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Doesn't affect F2P

If you're f2p you're stuck flipping F2P crap until you can afford bonds.

If you spend 2-4 weeks turbonerding slayer you can make a profitable character who can sub to the game passively by farming gargoyles

I don't know what would be popular in the market, but I know what interests me.

Building settlements with high degrees of custom-ability

Events that make real change in the game world and permanently alter a server's history making each one unique

Crafting that is more than collecting materials to make an item that you'll replace.

Wealth of lore

Interactive world-I mean this in many categories, whether it's something as simple as placing torches on the ground or casting a frost spell to freeze the surface of a river so you can walk across, you should be able to actually change the environment in many ways.

Aside from that, I've realized little features go a long way to make a game funner. Even something as simple as being able to write notes and leave them in places. I remember playing that shit game Tibia. I realized it was going to be nothing but farming, so I left a few notes around a town that led the people to where I hid the last of my loot. Little bullshit things like this make games so much funner it's crazy.

Anyways, to put all of this in an MMO, they have to answer a lot of difficult questions. Like how, when, and who can destroy buildings? Do you allow stupid penis buildings to be built? Where can settlements be built? The reason why online persistent building games suck, is because these questions have never been answered yet, or they always chose the cheapest and fastest solution.

If an MMO was able to achieve this, you would have a world of near limitless creativity and customability.

MMO's work differently than that

EVE manages to be special but thats because they're icelandic

Reminds me of how me and my brother would troll free players. We would offer them a rune weapon in exchange for 500 wheat. When they finished collecting the wheat and hour later, we would say we changed our minds.

Man, the golden age of scamming and trolling is over. No longer can you simply pretend to be a jagex employee and get a bankload of free shit.

I have been looking for a new game to play. Is OSRS worth getting into as a complete newbie to MMORPGs?

>vr meme is dead
i'd play the fuck out of runescape if it was in vr

Yes, try it f2p and work your way towards beating the final, f2p quest, which is dragon slayer, by that time you'll figure out if you like MMOs or not.

Please, just because you got taken for $1,000+ doesnt mean you should lie on Yea Forums.

>calls itself "Old School Runescape"
>it's the shitty first overhaul
Where's the actual Runescape?

Thanks user, ill get the f2p tomorrow and see if I like it.

Guess I'll just train at Melee for the members week and my future time on F2P until my stats get decent enough to actually get members and pass by Slayer tasks faster.

Just do the free EXP quests like waterfall quest, gnome village quest, camelot quests, grand tree, ect.

Those are all members quests and they can get you to 50 combat in no time.

Just play DFO or something. It's decent

Classic shut down, I think because it got too hard to keep it compatible with modern hardware and there were nowhere near enough players to make that worth it.

Classic shut down some time last year because only a few hundred people still played it

yes if you have a lot of time when you can play video game, because game is very grindy

This fucking sucks.

too much grinding, Dont want to invest 300 hours to start to play the game

I hope you're right.
It'll be a new world if it does.

Because mmo's require a decent budget to even be feasible.
These budgets are always followed by greedy jewbag marketers who insist that the game be more "accessible for more mass appeal" or some fucking bullshit.
Then the mmo part of the game gets simplified and convenienced away and the game becomes some shitty grindy singleplayer game with optional multiplayer.

It's not even old school once you get in to the late-game meta. The devs (and voting playerbase) don't care about the old spirit more than perhaps superficially. It serves to capture the pre-eoc, post-tradelimit audience.

Depends if you want to make an mmo or you want to make WoW. I have a feeling that a game in the same vein as RO would be a lot cheaper to make than a WoW clone.

Video killed the radio star
Wiki killed the MMO star

Remember a time when people left their real selves behind and just were their character? Remember when bringing real life stuff to online games was considered taboo and you would be casted as a pariah if you did so?

Remember when people used to communicate and socialize in-game worlds? When there were no wikis and datamines and people learned shit by asking around, and sometimes it was a coin toss between getting good info and getting trolled? And even if you got trolled you ended up learning about a new area to grind on later on.

Wikis and datamining leaks killed MMO's. There's no more teaching the ropes to newbs because they just get pointed to a bunch of guides and spreadsheets. The joy of facing new shit together is gone because unless you're in an actual progress guild, your guild most likely is just waiting for the pros to upload videos of the fight and have your guild memorize the fights before event trying to run it. There's no more zone wars where you had to fight for your right to grind on an area, and because of this longstanding rivalries are no longer being formed.

To bring back MMO's you'd have to release something made in the stone age, no raid finders, no conveniences, open world pvp, no kids gloves, no quest markers, obscure quest activation requirements spanning running around the map talking to key NPC's and finding shit on the field without the fucking good fairy shitting on gold particles to lead you every step, and for the love of god, better asset protection so datamining faggots don't leak half the shit for the next patch.

If you're going to tell someone to play an ARPG you might as well tell them to play a good one.

Last I saw PvP is supposed to be a real second though for Pantheon.

I'd be surprised if it's developed this far.

It just seems so retarded that people call something like Destiny an MMO.

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Wiki's didn't do shit.

Problem with MMOs is that they're antisocial and single player now.

Wiki's didn't stop people from hanging out in low level zones because the genre now focuses on getting people to the 'end game' where they get bored and quit because WOW somehow magically became popular because of its mystical endgame superiority, when most people in WOW's hayday weren't even level capped on a single character.

come play novaRO

ragnarok!!

Truest statement everyone ignores. The drive to win makes people wiki/guide literally fucking everything and they turn into drones on traintracks.

Not at all, there are plenty of indie MMOs out there that really deserve more support as they're passion projects usually done by 1-2 people.

Everyone wants the next big MMO to be a WOW clone and it needs to fucking stop.

Worse is there are guys like the frogs who made Nost who I could legitimately see making their own MMO if they just got the right people together and put as much time and effort into it as they did rebuilding the vanilla WOW server code from scratch.

>PvP is supposed to be a real second though for Pantheon.
The only hope I have for Pantheon is to revive the everquest spirit for the brief few months the game will live before fizzling out.

It sucks, but what can ya do? Even as someone who started playing in early 2001 I gotta say, Classic was just plain deprecated. All my memories of playing it in its heyday are just that, memories in a vacuum of it being the only choice in RuneScape. We live in a day and age where a highly improved, non-EoC version is readily available and the playerbase preferred that over Classic (and EoC) by several magnitudes for good reason.

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>To bring back MMO's you'd have to release something made in the stone age, no raid finders, no conveniences, open world pvp, no kids gloves, no quest markers, obscure quest activation requirements spanning running around the map talking to key NPC's and finding shit on the field without the fucking good fairy shitting on gold particles to lead you every step, and for the love of god, better asset protection so datamining faggots don't leak half the shit for the next patch.
A life-size replica of western Europe, no map except the ones you make, no fast travel

Is that really SAO?

Faglord detected, no one cares that you're spamming local to try and find mankirk's wife, that shit got annoying fast and people started to make jokes.

The real problem with MMOs is they're single player games now, that don't actually become MMOs until you hit end game, but by that time you've quit, or everyone you'd group up with to do group content quit long before they hit end game.

Not to say going solo in MMOs shouldn't be a thing, but it should be like Vanilla WOW or EQ, where its a pain in the ass and slow as fuck to do things solo

The push to make everything competitive all the time is annoying. No one wants to make fun characters any more since it has to be meta or it's LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE and pvp has to be all tourneyfag shit with no room for just getting into fights for the fun of it.

Same. Good thing is though it looks like it'll still be a mostly full experience even if it has a small community as long as you have a few friends.

The real promising point to me is that the dev team seems to be competent and passionate.

kek that's pretty good user

You're talking about current day issues. I'm talking about shit that's been hurting the genre since 2010, son.

Of course, you're right, the current day issues overshadow what I mention, but they're a problem in itself because of the issues started by the wiki culture.

Like this user said people now are just drones rushing for the endgame, they don't give a fuck about the journey. Back in my day, endgame was just a pipedream, there wasn't even an endgame because back then your character kept progressing continuously. Getting to level cap was actually an achievement, and it felt real good, because to get there you had to go through a real fucking grinder, remember exp loss on death? But we loved that shit, that journey. We made friends along the way, met new people in each new area, and sometimes everyone went their different ways after you were done with that zone, even if you were on the same server you may never see those guys again.

I need a fucking moment now, sorry user, there's much more I'd like to talk about but give me some space.

Some things never change. SAO is a fucking embarrassment.

The better way to handle solo content in mmos is to put group oriented things in the same space as soloable stuff that players can meet other players while solo and party up to try and get into the tougher parts of the zone.

>no one cares that you're spamming local
I never, ever used local to ask for help. I may have used it to shoot the shit while in the barrens, I may have used it to be a total cunt and start shit in the middle of nowhere, but never fucking ever to ask for help.

I only asked for help on /say to people in front of me. Made some of the best friends I could have in my youth with that. Only flaming faggots used local to ask for help.

Im laughing at the absurdity of the thought that any time you give players creative freedom in a game there's always that one guy who's gonna build a giant cock, with balls if he can

He brought up Maple Story.

>FFXIV is a tranny single player "MMO"
After years of hearing people bitch about the lack of being able to play solo, I have to say this is solid bait

Exactly.

>meta
I fucking hate this word like you have no idea.

Weird, quirky shit was fun as fuck to play and party with. Battlepriests in RO were the shit.

A shame. Developer's handlers are too concerned with keeping up appearances to let them build systems of freedom.

It is

Those rapist guys get merc'd like a second further into that scene

PvP is strictly tourneyfag in arena settings, you want fun? World PvP

Have both and you get the best of both worlds

Or just make soloing hard.

Vanilla WOW hit that perfect mix of annoying to solo, without it being bullshit.

Pull a stranglethorn tiger, you're a melee class, you beat it down, but are now half health or worse and have to eat/bandage, which is a resource, that takes 5-10 seconds to reach its full effect, or if you're a caster class you've probably lost half your mana

Now group up with someone, you're killing things twice as fast, so they're doing only 1/4th of your health, or using up only 1/4th of your mana, and you and your ally can trade off on sharing health, or taking moments to drink for mana.

Its simple, but it works, but WOW eventually got 80+ levels in the game, and everything below end game by the time WOTLK rolled around was pretty much dead content.

Psshh. Disappointing.

Doesn't help that we've a horde of convenience tards who'll be crying every minute of every day if they can't respec their characters essentially for free and have a wholly different one within 5 minutes. Of course you get a bunch of meta faggotry when you can painlessly jump into whatever mode is meta atm and don't have to do any fucking character building whatsoever. Fad hopping is never as bad when you have to spend 1-6 months leveling that shit before you can take part in it, and devs don't need to stomp it out so zealously when every other week 40% of the playerbase aren't suddenly playing the same exact character again.

yeah, most fun I have in multiplayer games is beating people with dumb shit or figuring out my own little exploit/theorycrafted retard strat that kinda works somehow. Only games I can really do this in anymore are souls games.

Biggest problem is all MMOs right now are trying to be as chinkshit grindfests as possible, when the heart of MMOs is digital D&D with a server as your DM.

Its 100% immediate turnoff when you log into an MMO and are spammed with 500 tutorial popups, cash shop spam, and 20 UI elements for shit in the game you will probably never touch.

How fucking hard is it to just create a game where you log in, make a character, have a basic fucking UI and can just explore the world with other people? Why does there need to be this system bloat that covers your screen with pointless fucking screens.

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>Its simple, but it works, but WOW eventually got 80+ levels in the game, and everything below end game by the time WOTLK rolled around was pretty much dead content.

This is why I have no hope for the longevity of classic. Eventually they will have to change the end-game meta, either through some new strategy, or by following the same vertical climb. The ever-increasing vertical climb strategy always invalidates the low levels.

Resource management is another thing that really needs to come back.

Vanilla will be fine because it won't have EXP nerfs if done right.

Im still betting blizz will fuck it up though.

EverQuest is dead and that fucking kills me. I loved that game. P99 just doesn’t do the trick. The server is top heavy as shit, the only people who play are severely autistic, and a few raiding guilds get all the staffs attention who enable them to lock down raid locations with spotters and perma camps.

It will be fine for the first few years, but it can't stay the same forever.

Alting is a thing user.

Even the most hardcore grognard will still be leveling their alts and farming low tier raids with them.

classic mongs are after pvp and they were playing the same private server shit for years

Nah, you still get some stuff like the former in games like FFXIV.
It's still for mongoloids, though.
The idea of MMOs before wasn't an "endgame" consisting of a gameplay loop you just spent 200 hours playing.
They had variety, and shit to do, and people to talk to.

This guy still exists, you know, that MMO that RuneShit coppied and fucked up in every way.

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A stagnant game will create a stagnant population.

That's great, but mongs and grogs can't lift the world by their own.
And weren't private servers constantly churning? I don't think any server lasted more than a few years.

Never heard about this one, what's it like?

Think classic EQ with RSs leveling style on the doom engine

Kek what are you nerds talking about? MMOs will be saved come summer time just wait it out. It's gonna be so good bros I can't wait anymore.

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It won't user, and you know it.
Fucking Kakao studios and bluehole behind it. It's going to be unironically a black desert online 2.0
With all the most time consuming grind and blatantly P2W aspects behind it.
And if you think thats not enough, kakao studio will always come up with "updates" that will fuck up the game
more and more, just how they did it now once again with BDO and the new marketplace.
It's unbelivable how stupid this chinks are.

And don't get me started on the mouthbreathing subhuman community that forms around this game
which will defend the devs to the blood no matter how much they shit down their throats.

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Do they publish just WoW subs or do they contribute any activision "battlepass" or subscription service?

They went full money whore long ago... It's just to what extent?

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Sci-fi or fantasy setting? Why?

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Science Fantasy

Depends on the MMO type
for something like EQ about exploration and loot probably fantasy, for a more sandbox title, probably sci-fi like SWG

I have yet to see sci-fi done right with the exception of EVE, which is somehow very fittingly immersive because you're just a brain jacked into a ship computer so everything being excel based makes sense.

You do know that A:IR is black desert reskinned right?

Their character creator is the same (male knight even has the same armor). The UI is pratically the same and the game even has the exact same texture pop in issues like black desert. The entire things looks just like it but with a different name. It's pretty crazy actually.

youtube.com/watch?v=PAHd9o_m5Yc

A huge problem is that everything is so easily searchable nowadays. EQ worked when it came out because you couldn't just fucking google every quest location or what build and gear was the best. You had to interact with people because, without relying on the players in game, you'd never figure shit out.

been playing runescape (3) lately having a good time. might resub to wow for a month or two when the patch hits.
anyone ever play dragon nest? it came back on steam a while ago after getting NEXXONED and i'm trying to play again, but the piece of shit game won't let me in, keeps freezing.

>texture pop in issues like black desert.
This was actually the reason I never got into the game. It was just soooo bad.

>The "Call of Duty" of MMOs getting rereleased is totally not going to sink us head first into another era of shitty WoW clones
It might be just a thought but, perhaps most people that have played MMOs before WoW don't really like WoW?

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>You do know that A:IR is black desert reskinned right?
I'm not even optimistic for AIR, but that is some of the dumbest shit I've read. To start, AIR is a traditional tab target mmo.

What a retarded way of looking at it jesus christ never talk about your shitty opinion again

So they copied everything from BDO EXCEPT for the combat? Hahaha what a bunch of retards

Blizzdrones will never realise that they've been playing a fake mmorpg all this time.

Friendly reminder osrs dev team just pastes content from 2008-now with different names and less quality due to limitations of the game
All of the retarded endgame content added in and the shit that caters to poopsockers is why the community is terrible now on members, either you are maxing your character and shooting for 200m exp in everything the most time efficient way possible or you're shit and unwelcome. Or you're a runescape pker aka more autistic than Chris Chan

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the only mmo ever with actual gameplay and the potential to be the best game in the world and save the mmo genre is just a fucking japan exclusive. WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY

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Blocked.

It's pretty fucking sad how they basically make Walmart knockoffs of rs3 content all the time

>I want another decade of uninspired, railroaded trash where everything gets handed to me and all that matters is end game
People like you are the reason this genre is dead

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>before vanilla WoW

So EQ and Ultima online? Those are really the only ones worth talking about.

I don't think DDO would save MMOs, but I do think it would be fun as fuck.
I fucking love Dragon's Dogma so fucking much, I'm really pissed that it's only in Japan.

there's also It's still playable today on official servers

No faggot I want classic WoW. Nobody gives a shit about some kickstarter #1040 MMO because they have all been trash and will continue to be trash without a real company/funding.

Everyone wants classic WoW get over it. Pic related is you.

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Why is ff14 tranny bait anyway? Never played it but ive seen tons of guys who met their "gfs" on there

i'll stick with what i said.

it's popular
it's weeb
it's cute

Ragnarok Online

>No faggot I want classic WoW.
You've only validated my point

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Try a classic private server.

Ok fuck you're right. 3 worth talking about.

There is a reason that wow killed everything that came before it, because everything before wow was terrible and basically the beta for what an mmo should be. Just because retarded boomers can have fun roleplaying in the same quest zone for 2 months and are okay with no real endgame content because "like, the journey is more important than the end" does not mean actual gamers feel the same way. Hope you and the two other people on your ultima online private server are having fun though

Ironmeme is complete autism, do it ONLY if you hate yourself but at least join an ironmeme clan chat to talk to other nerds

it wont be. Damn I will never touch another mmo where you cant choose how much you sell an item for and full outfit sets are $20 a pop

You have no point to begin with. I guess have fun supporting some garbage on patreon while a real MMORPG loving community will be forming in classic.

>You have no point to begin with.
My point is you're a lazy faggot that hates challenge and figuring things out on your own

>muh sandbox
Name 1 (one) good sandbox MMORPG. I swear to christ if you say EVE your opinion is invalidated.

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>Too much streamlining of group based content where you never have to interact with your random group
>built in quest trackers means you never have to determine quest status amongst the group or find out where the questing area is
>many quests can be solo'd further diluting the social aspect.
>optional content can be great but ultimately less rewarding as far as item rewards go due to lack of horizontal progression in current MMOs

just gove us WOW 2 where eberyone gets a time machine and you can travel to anywhere in the game from any time

controlled woth phases

SWG pre CU

Why are you lying? You know you didn't play that game, no one on Yea Forums has actually played that.

It's always like that. How many arena shooters, fighters, RTSes or battle royale games can exist at the same time? Usually it's 3 games that take the spotlight. Same thing is happening with social media platforms as well.

>I swear to christ if you say EVE your opinion is invalidated.
Blizzcucks continue to be the troglodyte species of the industry, reminder that everything blizz ever released was a dumber version of an already existing game.

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I think we can all at least agree that raiding is a meme and needs to die.

Go play Rusty Hearts oh wait

EVE is so bad

Projection isn't conducive of good mental health user

Less that it needs to die and more than it needs to fuck off to its own genre and let mmos be mmos.

How should the end game look like? I played both RO and WoW and enjoyed them for various reasons. I loved raiding and world pvp (in TBC) and I loved WoE pvp fights over castles in RO as well.

>EVE is so bad

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Just make questing and combat team based. You can't have minmax and wiki faggotry when you have to rely on other people.

What this I hear about Pantheon having no hope? Say it ain't so.

EVE is a product of its time

Pre WOW no one knew what the fuck they were doing in terms of MMO design, EVE plays more like a 4x game then what people think of when they think of MMO, which usually defaults to fantasy RPG.

ESO is great. It more or less plays like a traditional ES game but with some MMO mechanics mixed in. Quests more or less have you talking to people rather than going out and killing 10 rats, or collect 50 pig tails. Crafting is great compared to most other MMOs.

>I watched a YT vid about how good SWG was

thats you kiddo. guarantee if you put all of these "i want a real sandbox MMO" fanatics into that game today they would quit an hour in.

I think there's room for it, but I don't think it should be the most challenging top-end content. I really like that it incentivizes larger scale organization, but I still think you should leave the top-end shit for the regular-ass groups you play the entire rest of the game with. Would have some neat rivalries too if you had both in one game.

There's always going to be a preferred comp based on what you are doing.

>replying to obvious bait

it's final fantasy and it's popular in Asia

EVE was way ahead of its time. its a product of about midway through its life

>all these implications
>all this evidence
one of these things is not like the other

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Make deep learning AI tweak the class numbers slightly every week. Spec and skill reset has a cooldown of one month.

Nah, EVE was going places, then incarna happened.

Eve was ahead of its time right up until it started being successful and CCP went full retard with catering to the null corps. They did exactly the same thing Blizzard did with raiding and made it the only thing they cared about, and essentially redesigned the game around nothing but endless sov grinding.
I would play an Eve 2006 server, but on way in hell I'd bother with modern Eve.

Soon bros. We're going home soon.

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>CCP went full retard with catering to the null corps
you know its funny you say that, this talk of eve prompted me to look up what's happening on youtube and the latest expansion looks like exactly more of that

>reminder that everything blizz ever released was a dumber version of an already existing game.

This, unironically
>WC was a dumber version of dune
>SC was a dumber version of WC
>WoW was a dumber version of EQ
>OW was a dumber version of TF2 which was a dumber version of TF
Blizzard is literally the Apple of video games

>WC was a dumber version of dune

How do you figure? Dune might be credited as the first RTS, but that doesn't mean warcraft was trying to be it.

The only good change to EVE in the past 10 years was the removal of POSes.

are there any good mmos that are actually free? I'm taking a break from paying for osrs for a while

just wait for the amazon mmo fellow go- gamers

Haven and Hearth
Project Gorgon
I think Shroud of the Avatar has a f2p version.

>>WoW was a dumber version of EQ
I never understood this as someone who's played both EQ and Vanilla. I preferred Vanilla so much more compared to EQ. Maybe it was because of the lore but something about WoW drew me in and kept me playing. It felt amazing.

Fuck off cunt, RDR2 was in development for 10 years and it turned out damn near perfect

>early access kickstarter MMORPGs

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I'd say the visual upgrades are good too, for all CCP's flaws, they have one of the best art teams in the industry. Eve now is a top tier visual experience. It's just the amateur hour game design that causes the problems.

The peer to peer and instanced meme is dragging any game that could be an MMO down.

Can someone make an actual MMO spaceship game? Make an Elite Dangerous that actually has meaningful multiplayer? That's all I want at this point.

Theoretically yes, practically no.
Servers simply can't handle that load, just look at starcitizen and how absolutely fucking unstable it is with next to no pop. Even if someone were to get that kind of game running, it'd need a $60+ monthly just to keep things running properly on the cheapest of cloud host services.

Nope.

I am pretty sure every single server tech developer in the MMO industry has retired by now, its pretty much lostech by now, and the only people who know how to run an MMO are enigmaic and keep to themselves and avoid the MMO development scene like the plague because its all corperate bullshit that ruins the game.

Thanks elon musk

Take me back bros

>I am pretty sure every single server tech developer in the MMO industry has retired by now
Nah, they just moved to other higher paying industries to make 10x more off of what they know about network optimization.

>$100 paid betas

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look at this nigga in denial

look dude, I know you want to believe you haven't been scammed but they've scaled back what they intend to release multiple times and changed their refund policy to basically "No Refunds". You will be rwaiting out 15 years for Scam Citizen and they will keep taking money despite having over $100 million in budget already.

Fantasy with gonzo sci-fi elements

What's this?

Runescape

EVE

Project Gorgon isn't free, user

Though I do love it and recommend it whenever I'm asked about MMOs

daoc

Bethesda shills in full force.

Should I tried Guild Wars 2 and/or Elder Scrolls Online?

Isn't AIR on Unreal Engine 3?

You guys know literally nothing about MMO server architecture

those flying machines
>plays Ac2 once

>I wish an MMO could capture such a thing.
a MMO with no communication would just have people requiring discord to do high end content with them.

discord and shit like it have ruined games like that. it worked for souls games because it was extremely limited on the spot multiplayer.

>in the same vein as RO would be a lot cheaper
Yeah, but nobody wants shitty graphic in current year.

Guild wars 2 is garbage. It's a checklist sim with active ERP community and cash shop stuff. Would not recommend. Oh and the story is cheesy as heck

MMO is probably the hardest genre to do well

MMORPGs are dead because AAA is about profit and the genre is too big for indie devs. Also considering there's like a thousand of them, there's no new territory to explore. This is the fate of all games really, once you get used to a genre it's only a matter of time before it loses its magic, human beings are limited by their imagination and our imagination is limited by the world around us, with capitalism in full force along with all the devs creating games it was only a matter of time. This is post-culture but also post-content, the fate of everyone who explores a specific genre and eventually the media itself.

>no new territory to explore
No one has been exploring any territory at all for 15 years now.

Unless you boil the gameplay down to wow levels of interaction you're going to be handling a shit ton of data processing with both your DB server and the actual world server, unless you set up instancing and split the world into many different zone instances like older MMOs did but then you're stuck with the fact that in this vast area of space you'd be warping into different regions and preventing most direct interactions between them. On top of all this you'd need to handle the issue of hosting, if you choose a cloud service, one week could result in massive usage from something like two large groups of players going at it in one instance resulting in a much higher operating cost, if you host it yourself you're going to have to deal with the overhead of security, backups, hardware maintenance, electricity costs, bandwidth usage, etc. It's not as simple as "Just make it run smooth and fast".

>different zone instances
Meant instance servers

Ha

b8

One thing people never talk about when it comes to the success of early MMOs is the length of game play. It was basically infinite, the grind was incredibly long and there were so many things to do. Yes, the vast, open worlds and connecting with hundreds of other players was really awesome for the time, but the fact that you could jump on whenever you wanted and never run out of content, that was something else. That's just not as alluring as it once was because so many other games offer a ridiculous amount of content. It might not be infinite, but it's more than most people ever get around to finishing, and there are constant updates that increase the length even further. Games like Witcher 3, Assassin's Creed, Far Cry, Elder Scrolls/Fallout, there's just so much shit to do. Today's games offer the same amount of expansive content that MMO games used to offer, as well as vast open worlds, so the things that made MMOs special have effectively been killed.

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>Will the MMORPG genre ever return?
Only if it goes back to its roots as a niche genre. Most old and established MMORPGs are played to this day, because they are niche with a certain core audience.

Are those spikes double exp weekends?

2020 will be the 30th anniversary of the Uncharted Waters series, and they're making an MMORPG for it.
youtube.com/watch?v=mOM972xh0Og

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If we'd actually let it die we could remake it but koreans refuse and keep it alive with death magic. They pretty much gave up and are only making fast food MMO's that last a year or two tops.

t.scammed

>Problem with MMOs is that they're antisocial and single player now.

Exactly, when I reinstalled wow to test the free to play version, I was so surprised nobody was talking. You try to say hello to someone : no response, every fucking time. Even at high level, people just talk on /g, barely.
When I played the release of TBC, it was much much more social. Now it just feels like you are playing with NPCs

should I bite the bullet and buy ESO?on ps4

MMOs are dead because they never evolved beyond
>Target enemy
>Press hotkeys

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another problem of mmos is the variety, theres almost no difference between fire/arcane/frost mage builds outside of pvp

no

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MMORPGs died out because nobody does them properly

No other game has either

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thats nu blizzard problem not mmo problem

MMOs aren't dead. you just hate them because the social aspect doesn't work if everybody hates your guts. everyone else is having fun without you.

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>TERA
>TESO
>BDO
probably more but action combat MMO's have been a thing the last decade. Even GW2 has a mode that allows you to free aim and play like an action RPG now.

I'd argue that the reason why MMOs are so shit now is because they sacraficed the depth of old MMOs with resource management and focused entirely on hotkey spam and 'action combat'

Old MMOs were like an interactive cardgame where you have your CDs and character build and counter play was very important, where soft and hard counters made you want to play with others because you'd be able to spread out your weaknesses and strengths, now its a DDR button masher where everyone does the same 3 things.

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Too bad those all fucking suck. If they want to make a good MMO they're going to have to just start with an actual good game first, then worry about the "massive" part.

post fun mmos you play that Yea Forums doesn't talk about, i'll start
>Realm of the Mad God

I love these threads but they also make me feel sad and old.

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>moving goalposts
You said the genre died specifically because games were stuck in one combat sstem, I pointed out you were wrong, and you just move goalposts.

maybe there's nothing wrong with the genre, and it's the audience that has something wrong with it.

Is it fun anymore? I stopped playing when they took away the looting from other players graves

Except all those games you listed are still essentially exactly the same, just with different controls. You just stand in front of an enemy and spam attacks until it falls over. They could literally just copy basic action game controls. Fucking copy/paste DMC or even Dark Souls gameplay into a massively multiplayer environment, and it would be a thousand times better than the boring slog bullshit there is to pick from right now.

>maybe there's nothing wrong with the genre, and it's the audience that has something wrong with it.

principal_skinner.jpg.tiff.exe.ogg.mpg.wav

>every modern mmo uses the same boring early 2000s design model and doesn't take advantage of modern technology to make something new
>money grubbing monetization that destroys the in-game economy
>bad gameplay
>little content
>all of them are able to be botted very easily thanks to mechanics that are easy to script
RTS died first and MMO will die next. The large bulk of fans of this genre are such sycophantic shit eaters that they'll settle for playable trash over true improvement and innovative game design. When mobile games are able to do unique social game design better it's obvious there's a deep rooted problem in the type of player that props up shit like ff14 and WoW.

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that'd also be wrong because in action combat MMO's if you don't actively dodge attacks you usually get 1 shot. It's more the RPG elements of the games that have gotten watered down because they give you action controls if you can si there and get hit over and over again you never actively protect yourself so devs basically said "forget HP, the boss hits so hard that even if you stack defensive gear and buff your HP up you'll still get 2 shot" .. hence why everyone in GW2 runs glass cannon, getting hit kills you even if you try to build "tanky", people build full damage and actively dodge/block attacks instead of trade blows.

warframe

Is RS3 really that much worse than OSRS? Considering playing but not sure which.

Yeah, The new devs are absolutely based and actually update the game, Though I don't think you've lived through the brunt of the Kabam era if grave looting was that long ago.

I want an MMO that feels like RS2 back, OSRS is a fucking abomination now. Raidtards and PVP shitters ruin any multiplayer RPG they can get their hands on.

RSC and RS2 were like RPG chat rooms and I don't think anything like it can ever come back

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>Always see people talking about Oldschool Runescape
>Look it up
>It's not oldschool at all

2D Runescape was best Runescape.

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Any tips if I'll give it a go?

I haven't played it in a while, but the only MMO I ever truly loved was Pirates Of The Burning Sea. I liked that you actually had to maneuver your ship and the wind changes could be unpredictable, forcing you to deal with it as it came up.

The devs bought themselves out from under Sony, but I didn't know about it and missed the chance to transfer my characters to their new accounts.

gameplay videos are already out, it's way worse than a bdo clone and bdo is shit as it is. combat looks worse than wow or gw2 or even rift.

also the way those retarded devs handle issues is a massive red flag
>early tera hacks and exploits from 7 years ago worked in pubg for 5 months
>at one point they REMOVED tera text chat because of an exploit allowing images and scripts to be sent globally (multiple prople figured out how to send admin shouts)
>tera's insanely retarded player council

MMORPG was always grind for brainlets face this Yea Forums you are addicted this is not fun

Tread carefully and don't go into any dungeons you don't recognize immediately
I.e. don't go into the lost halls if your stats aren't maxed

Do you want to play a chinese microtransaction vehicle disguising itself as a game where you literally do not matter to other players who have been playing for almost 20 years or the devs until you invest 500 hours of game time into maxing out all of your skills so you can "get started"?

pic related

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I was interested in this before it came out, but I heard about nothing but fuckery from the people that played it.

BRING BACK OPEN WORLDS AND OPEN DUNGEONS. YOU CAN CLOSE OFF THE BOSS ROOM BUT I WANT TO SEE OTHER NIGGAS RUNNING AROUND IN DUNGEONS AGAIN. ALSO FUCK TRANNIES

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>tfw playing XIV when a new patch drops and XI during the droughts

Bunch of miserable nerds in this thread

I do wish Ragnarok and Phantasy Star weren't utterly dead though.

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ffxiv is unfortunately the least worse 'big' mmo currently available.

Honestly I'd kill for Atlantica Online 2 run by a company that wasn't Nexon/Ndoors

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>tfw eating shit when new shit drops and eating 17 year old shit during droughts

Bunch of miserable standards in this thread

Now old shit, those were the days haha. Imagine actually being an NPC

MMOs won't ever be good user because the sense of wonder won't last long. No matter what the developers do someone willl be max level and have datamined and catalogued the entire game.

Then everquest syndrome will kick in and it'll completely be zombified.

Are there Yea Forums guilds in NovaRO? I've only played Super high rates that are pvp focused.

How is ESO doing? Seems pretty dead but is it any fun?

>seems pretty dead
The Big 3 'modern' mmo's are GW2, FFXIV and ESO. WoW's on another tier by itself in popularity above them but it's in decline.

ESO has the best quests/questing but the worst combat out of those three.

Seems to be the choice to go with if you're not into WoW or XIV

I kind of regret not playing ESO at launch. It was awful of course and it's fine (more or less) now but I feel like I missed the train wreck

Class based MMOs or "Do whatever" MMOs?

Class based, always

Just needs more interesting roles than just Tank, DPS, Healer

I don't want MMOs I want another Guild Wars.
>but-
It worked as a single player game too.

apparently amazon is working on a survival mmo which is going to be a sandbox like runescape rather than a theme park

"Do whatever" of course. Classes are for brainlets

>>but-
nobody would disagree with another guild wars famalam

interesting, interesting

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>amazon
So it's going to have ugly ass designs then. Rip that already

uh, what? how many games have amazon developed? zero to my knowledge

I too enjoy unbalanced zergfests

I'm good for either as long as a good 80% of content requires teamwork.

>survival
Just what we need, more multiplayer survival sandboxes.

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there's tons of footage/news about it now that it's had multiple alpha/whatever tests and it's closer to ARK/Rust than it is to an mmo

mhm I love this image

thats disappointing

I play bdo for a few months and quit every time. It's fun. The most fun mmorpg out there for sure. Don't even give a fuck about the p2w the combat system is unparalleled and there won't be anything better in the next few years so fuck it

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I started playing 3 recently because I stopped playing RS in 2010 so I figure I've already seen all OSRS would have to offer.

Been enjoying RS3 a lot actually, didn't expect to enjoy it this much, I like a lot of the new stuff like the combat, the various QoL changes to make things faster, etc. etc.

Trends change
>MMORPG (Everquest and others, then made big by WoW)
>modern war FPS (CoD:MW2, Battlefield BC2 etc.)
>quick short matches like MOBA (DOTA, LoL, HOTS) and CS:GO
>battle royale (DayZ, then made big by PUBG and Fortnite)
The next big thing will be mobage gacha like Fate/Grand Order

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funny how you forgot OSRS which is bigger than at least two of those

Korea killed MMORPGS prove me wrong

tortanic killed aaa mmorpgs prove me wrong
after that disaster no one is going to put on so much money anymore and only thing you have to look forward to are kickstarter shit

The MMO genre is alive if you aren't playing the worst entries in it (WoW and other themeparks). Runescape is alive as ever.

It was a good singleplayer game. They should've just released it as such.

They will return in mobile. Prove me the fuck wrong.

This is correct. They oversaturated the market with profitable garbage. So no other dev or publisher found it nessisary to climb the mountain that is WoW with so many bottomfeeders.

It's a fun sandbox, but is lacking in a lot of areas. Needs more group oriented PVE content to really give it that extra oomph it's lacking.

If you make up definitions as you go, someone like you could be considered half newt intelligence.

>korean
YOU STILL HAVEN'T FUCKING LEARNED YET?

even beyond the p2w shit, the game has serious problems with progression. the amount of RNG required to gear yourself is simply retarded.
losing your gear while upgrading it should not be a fucking thing

PSO2NA when?

MMOs are too focused on dumb shit like grinding. Why spend your time doing something not fun with other people when you could be doing something fun with other people?

The genre has hope when they focus more on socializing and less on challengeless nothing for tens of hours.

Why are people adding : on titles now. It's like Clearly you're either writing it it in another language
Ma:gica or Ma:gia. Jesus, A:ir.

Western MMOs have an issue with scope.
>lmao WvW with FULLY BUILDABLE AND DESTRUCTABLE EVERYTHING
>OH AND PERMADEATH WITH REINCARNATION TOO
They keep trying to hype people up with insane promises, when a game like Runescape, which was a heavily static and designed world is insanely popular because, surprise, people like games which are actually designed and cohesive.

Just give me TERA 2.

>WvW
I bet you'll enjoy your cat mount, that'll fix everything

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Don't worry about it, it's been dead since 2015.

FUCK FUCK FUCK why the FUCK does FFXIV have to be such a den for degenerates... Game is fine other than the combat, but jesus the community is filled with weebs, trannies, ERP'ers and other degenerate people, why cant normal people just play it FUCK.

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Class based most of the time because do whatever usually means the dev is doing whatever and too lazy to think things through and balance shit.

But user, these *are* the normal people!

What would a Yea Forums MMO be like?

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Literally every MMO is like that. If you didn't see it in another you were just oblivious to it.

>weab game
>doesn't expect it to be full of social outcasts

>we'll never having something as good as GW1 again

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>Tortanic killed AAA mmo
>even though the game is still alive and gets updated
Nothing killed AAA mmo, it was just a temporary market trend.

korean MMOs are just fucking awful

What the fuck are you talking about wow was the most normie-tier game and basically birthed the whole "Normies can play other games than Playstation as well".

I dont know i just wished normal people would play it.

if you cringe 1999 boomer mmo purists dont want raiding then what the fuck are you working toward the entire time yoyre playing? might as well play second life

I fully agree. It would have made an OK singleplayer game, hell even a great one without the shitty MMO mechanics.

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I just want to relax in a fantasy mmorpg with unlimited grind, without level limit, with the hard to get loot and party while playing because solo sucks.
So I could have friends again, heh

I think of it the opposite way, MMOs nowadays focus exclusively on raiding and PVP to the point that there's never any meaningful content you can just do alone or with a small group of friends (to no real advantage over playing solo).

As ironic as it is considering the name of the genre, it's really exhausting when everything important has to be done in groups.

A Raid only MMO with 0 censorship and extensive landscapes of wasteland littered with graffiti and corpses.

>WoW
>not full of ERPers
So you never visited goldshire then? Never met any cat form druids or tauren or worgen or pandaren?

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class based
problem with "do whatever" with the modern mindset is people are either going to build the trinity anyway or turn into biggest dps build and buffer/debuffer to make biggest dps be even bigger

Yeah that's a thing on Moonguard and WRA and no where else, and normies don't play there (or when they do they leave when they realize their mistake)

Some people just want to live but there is still crime faggot

shut the fuck up tranny, the MMO genre is dead and OP is right about everything he said

You are retarded, but in some aspects that is true but just like this guy said, you are mostly wrong.

FFXIV however does not have that filter at all, sure there are creeps in WoW but not at all on the same scale as XIV.

what was The Division supposed to be? What was Ubisofts intention then?

I don't even think they know themselves. If they took their time to make it what it is now at launch, it could have been fun

Classic got shut down because the current devs are a bunch of greedy fucking kikes. You can run a server on shit hardware, but apaprently a company that has all the MTX in RS3 and the absurd amount of bond buying in OSRS on top of subs can't keep their game, which that game them everything they have now, online. Even if they had only 1 classic server left, that would have been the better alternative. That message saying "OH BOOHOO THERE ARE SOME BUGS WE CAN'T FIX, WE'LL HAVE TO SHUT IT DOWN :(" is such a fucking cop out. I was looking at one of the private servers yesterday and they managed to implement a redumentary form of slayer in it. If they can do that, then fucking Jagex can get off their faggot asses and fix the Crystal chest bug at a bare minimum.

Why is OS Runescape still the best MMO?

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Literally put thousands of hours into it you're just an obvious giga-aspie zoomer faggot

You didnt play the game kid how would you know

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WoWC. We're finally going home boys.

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Give up, those years are never coming back, just let it die.

>Man, the golden age of scamming and trolling is over. No longer can you simply pretend to be a jagex employee and get a bankload of free shit.
As a former victim of this classic scam, I hope you kill yourself you piece of shit.
Also thanks for teaching me a valuable lesson.

What's armour trimming?

Just click "accept".

Was the valuable lesson around blacks never relax?

If Pantheon turns out to be shit I'll strip myself of all my earthly possessions and go live like a hermit in the forest

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Can I have you stuff?

>MOBAs on their way out
You naive soul. Not even Fortnite managed to kill them because everyone knows BRs are just a trend.

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osrs is boring slow shit. Play RS3 (regular runescape).

this level of delusion is that of a fool, MOBAs are on their way out whether you like it or not. In 3 years we will get
>guys remember the old days? LOL & DOTA2 boys where you at?
>MOBAs were the last bastion of gaming
>god I was hardcore I dont know how anyone can tolerate this new genre of garbage fuck this TDM puyo pop that got 200million players
The future is looking bleak for you MOBA fans, your reign is over. Now it is your turn to suffer like the rest of us.

Why do you ex-wow players play right now? Are you even still into the MMORPG genre?

>MOBAs will be dead soon, mark my word!
Heard the same 10 years ago. Meanwhile
>2017 is most profitable year for Riot
>2018 lagging millions behind, but fiscal year ended before most successful skin line was released

>MMORPGS ARE DEAD AND THEY WILL NEVER RECOVER
>what about pantheon?
>IT'S ALREADY DEAD THERE'S NO HOPE I CAN TELL FROM ITS CLOSED ALPHA IT'S SHIT AND WORTHLESS AND NO ONE'S GONNA PLAY IT CERTAINLY NOT ME BECAUSE IT'S DED GAEM ON ARRIVAL AARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGHH

You will never be satisfied.
You will never get what you want because it doesn't exist.
You are a big faggot.

WildStar

Again, if a genre isn't the most popular fad among teens it means is dead.

Can Yea Forums recommend some single player RPGs? Is Jade Empire any good? What about premium NWN 1 modules?

The problem with Pantheon is that is a fucking scam for retards. I'd play it, but it won't be released.

I unironically thought Wildstar got shut down. Its still up? How many players does it have?

How can you even come to that conclusion? I am genuinely curious. Convince me not to preorder it, because I'm betting on Classic WoW being kiked.

Here's why I think OS Runescape manages to still be a thing at all.

It's because it's such an, honestly, simple grind of a game is that it's more of a glorified chat room. Even today; people still talk to each other and that's something most MMOs these days tend to fail at. Another post in this thread said it perfectly; MMOs suck nowadays because they're anti-social and singleplayer.

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WoW ruined MMOs, it was so successful that everyone else tried making their own WoW clone and then all the originality was gone, every single MMO was the fucking same.

Yes

>I unironically thought Wildstar got shut down
Because it did

Nah m8, that's Ashes of Creation

>I unironically thought Wildstar got shut down
It was.

>How many players does it have?
Every single "I want the hardcore WoW experience" one. Funny you can fit all of them in 0 servers.

>FFXIV is a tranny single player "MMO"

Based OP. XIV truly attracts the worst kinds of players.

Which mmo has best erp scene?

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The main problem that never got dealt with was buying ingame currency. If you've ever bought currency you have no right to complain about the downfall of the MMO. I don't care if you are a millionaire outside the game or if you don't have enough time to make money in game. The games were meant to be a level playing field. The shortcut mentality is the real cancer at the heart of this matter.

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I take more of an issue with these MMOs that are glorified single-player games because of people who don't want to socialize in an online game.

>people get their "true 2007 experience" with oldschool
>adds le evil grand exchange
>adds stuff from 08 and on
>everyone uses fucking plugins
I don't get it

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S...save me Yea Forums....please.

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Star citizen isnt even a mmo. Also wowfags are to blame. The same kind of retards that still play tf2 and counterstrike. That level of autism is required for new mmos to be successful

how do i get into runescape?
ive been chopping trees and killing goblins outside the starting area for the past hour or so what else can i do?

retard

I miss SWG, in any of its iterations

Sadly even if the perfect mmo came out now I probably wouldn’t play it due to how much of a time sink MMOs are. I honestly have about 3-4 hours a day during the week to devote to any and all hobbies. Job, committees, events, and gym take up all my time.

Sometimes I think back to when I was 13 putting in 8-13 hours a day into whatever mmo I was playing at the time, even more on a weekend.

Whatever you want, bro. Are you F2P? Try to do the efficient F2P quest run first, to get some starter levels.

People just wanted to be free from constant micro transactions, evolution of combat and the new Runescape artstyle. Plus RS3 is ultra ezmodo.

Was I the only one that enjoyed vanilla Rift and Storm Legion before it went full f2p chink mode?

>mfw The Repopulation

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For

Eve Online is more active than ever. Hope you have autism so you can enjoy it.

Nah if Rift vanilla came out Id play it. Trion is shit though. Archage could have been the MMO of all MMOs but Trion decided they hate gaming and money

user... Rift Prime is a thing

Games like Rust and Sea of Thieves are pretty much the spiritual successors.

I like ESO. it's pretty good.
The rest i've burnt on.

>Started with Runescape back in 2005
>Played Guild Wars 1 back in its heyday
>Switched to WoW during late vanilla/early BC
>Tried FFXIV1.0/Aion/Rift/SWtoR
>Still disillusioned with WoW
>A part of me wants to try to like PSOII
I don't even know where to go from here, bros. Is FFXIV really the shangri-la of the genre? It doesn't seem like it. Or maybe I'm just ignorant and jaded.

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Refer to the "Trion is shit though" comment, it isn't remotely the same

You have to be literally autistic to like Runescape

Guilding golden trim around armor. You need a certain blacksmith level to do it. But it requires having the armor and a gold bar in your inventory.

I was able to put up with the majority of that shit, but the EoC was where I just dropped it.

FUCK YOU!
I liked my punch wolf.

Is there more to GW2 than furry ERP?

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That's still the shortcut mentality. If you're playing an MMO that is designed with team play in mind and is filled with things that can kill you, the logical answer is to...?

>ask developers to make the game single player friendly
>kill millions of shitter mobs
>team up

It's like complaining there are no guns in football, of course there aren't, football was never designed with guns in mind.

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I tried Rift Prime, it was genuine shit that didn't even come close to Vanilla. Trion shut down and got bought out by Gamigo, so there won't even be a Rift in a year, or so.

>FFXIV is a tranny single player "MMO"
You legitimately could not have sold me any harder on the game. Heavily considering trying it now.

Is FFXIV fast paced combat or slow paced combat? I keep getting different answers from FFXI anons and WoW anons.

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Go give the trial a shot.
If you like it then you have no reason not to play.

Feels faster than current WoW if you ask me.

The global cooldown is 2.5s. It's slow and boring as fuck at low level, but depending on the class you play, you unlock more off-GCD abilities to spam in between.

What’s the most social MMO left? where you’re forced to interact and
work with the community i’m able to take part in the economy/world/etc. Basically what game is the most like pre-GE runescape?

Is it too late to get into Tera?

WoW and FFXI player here, its basically WoW with more OGCD. It is slower but max level classes have so much OGCDs it makes up for it. But what makes the game annoying is sliding. you can cast and if you move your character he "slides" it gives the game this very unpolished feeling when it comes to anything in the realm of pvp.

Eve? You can't get shit done alone or you get destroyed by corps

Seems deceptively fast but it's just millions of annoying color explosions that never stop.

2.5 seconds Global cool down
its fucking cancer untill you get more skills not to die of boredom

A little late, yeah.

I don’t think i have enough sperg in me or free time to git gud at eve

So is slower than WoW in the beginning but faster to WoW after 100 hours?

Then you don't have time to get gud in the sort of MMO you're looking for. You have to invest thousands of hours like the rest of the NEETs if you want to make it somewhere. If that's too hardcore for you then that's why casual social MMOs like VRchat and FFXIV exist where you can go at your own pace and still social/deal with RMT/economics

pretty much though modern BFA is slow as shit in comparison to older WoW, skip both of them for your own good they arent real MMORPGs

It's faster than WoW at endgame savage/extreme once you take APM and shit into account. Go compare fflogs savage 10% to warcraftlogs mythic 10% if you want proof

>Google it
>its korean
Thats a one way ticket right into the garbage can

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What makes a MMORPG a real MMORPG by definition then? As far as I'm concerned if you have a persistent world like WoW/FFXIV where things continue to happen without player intervention then it's a MMO and if it's a pseudo persistent instance world like Destiny/PSO/MOBA where things cease to continue without players then it's not a MMO.

>What makes a MMORPG a real MMORPG by definition then?
Whatever MMORPGs were like when you were a kid, user.

So like WoW and FFXIV where they have actual persistent worlds and are clearly marketed as one unlike PSO which is never marketed a MMO by Sega for almost 20 years now but people still call it one

A world that constantly evolves from player interaction, FFXIV and WOW cannot have a 1000 player battle over territory that costs guilds thousands of dollars. I hate EVE but this is literally not possible in those games. If anything remotely like it happens in a game where people have to be called in from their jobs because their guild has 10 grand on the line in worth then its an MMO. youtube.com/watch?v=3O56g8KC6CM Watch and listen, again I hate EVE but this is exactly what an MMO and its community should be. This level of interaction is not able to be emulated by any current game.

>WoW/FFXIV
Massively Multiplayer Online RPG
>Destiny/PSO/MOBA
Minimally Multiplayer Online RPG

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All the best old mmos were only enjoyable if you were a kid, a neet or a retiree. The only way to make progression feel worthwhile is to have lots of grind

>What makes a MMORPG a real MMORPG by definition then?
The first "M", Massive. Instanced content for small parties aren't massive. Is your "M"MO have less players than a 32vs32 FPS, is does a poor work as MMO.

Sounds like a massive RMT scheme in the making if you involve that sort of thing.

>Hey man we'll pay you hundreds of USD through paypal if you make your guild lose this MMO battle
>Hey man we'll pay you hundreds of USD through PayPal if you just give us your territory.

Thats the ideal.
There was a more text-based browser MMO set in Avalon where the player characters literally have to give birth to new players.
I can't remember the name but I'm pretty sure its dead now anyway.

What the genre needs is innovation and the drive to create strong community interactions, remember when all the EVE players protested a change in the game by bombarding the central space station for like two weeks?

FFXIV can do 72man PvP and 144 eureka zones. World zones have no official cap so 2000+ people from Balmung server can be in one area if they want.

This, though I admit to liking MMO's like Soul Worker as I generally enjoy action combat.

watch the video, that isn't what happened at all. One guild didnt pay rent and the territory was in a key location, I had a similar experience in Planetside 2 and this battle that was at a key point lasted 5 hours until the NC finally lost the fort. I would kill for that experience again

I never played XIV. Is that content relevant? 2000 guys in an "open world lobby" waiting for parties don't make a MMO.

Convenience killed the MMO. WoWs server-specific communities may not have been high quality, by any means, but they were communities nonetheless. Cross realm, sharding and the LFG tool effectively killed all need to form groups and maintain a reputation. The game is now essentially a single player experience with matchmaking. There are games that do this much better eg; MOBAs, BRs etc.

>tfw no good internet until around 2012
>was 25 at the time
I will never know what it feels like to play a MMO as a kid.

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I had fun playing lineage 2 on private servers
(not gonna pay a fucking subscription to those jews), starting with some rpg and moving to open pvp and clan wars and forums drama, but wow was shit and turned mmos into work- the game

It's not a lobby if the zone has persistent world elements. A lobby would be like PSO where it's completely static and holds a very small number of people.

120 people could be beating on one NM boss in Eureka at the same time. Or it could be 3000 people fighting against the same S rank mob in a SB zone. The latter doesn't really happen because S ranks would melt way too fast but it's definitely possible and the server/client are both capable of it

>It's not a lobby if the zone has persistent world elements
Hence the quotation marks. You should know what I mean.

Also you didn't really answered my question. Is that content relevant?

Why did cross realm kill the need to form groups and maintain reputation? If anything it makes it easier to form groups and harder to maintain reputation since it spreads faster.

>Is that content relevant?
Not him but most games with expansions suffer the same thing.
Previous content isn't relevant.

srsly i missed out on so many golden-age mmos like asheron's call and SWG

>rs is such a bad game people resort to actually talking to eachother
MMOs have come full circle

>this level of delusion is that of a fool
>LOL and DOTA2 still hitting top games on twitch after all these years
i don't even like moba's but you sound like the delusional one, people have been saying they'll die any second now for years

they wont
you (and me) were a kid with a shitton of disposable time to waste on this shit, and in the misery of your later days you look foundly back to it, yet even when its at your fingertips and in fact, even when when you play it again, its not the same anymore.

wrong, its the same, only you are no longer an easily impressed little faggot who now have a tad bit more respect for its time than to spend it on grinding shit/jumping through hoops, and can no longer put up with the little shits (that you once where) inhabiting these games (other than the few and similarly antisocial veterans like you)

also, most aforementioned little shits instead hop onto new hotnesses, which might not me MMOs, (and you lacked such wealth of choices in your time)

bring literally any mmo of today back to 2004 and it would be the second comic of Christ, while today its just one of the hundreds of whale traps thrown out.

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Define "relevant". Everyone has their own definition of relevant content in MMOs. Examples: crafting is the only thing relevant, PvP is the only thing relevant,a Eureka is the only thing relevant, roleplaying is the only thing relevant, raiding is the only thing relevant, making money and selling it for real cash is the only thing relevant, building up a huge linkshell, friends list, and NN channel is the only thing relevant, etc etc etc.

If you're asking if hunts is relevant. Yes people still fucking do it daily. They need the seals for materia, faster mount speed, or catch up gear.

MMO's require an insane amount of money to build.

Big projects mean there are bean counters who are looking at if the project will be able to pay back their loans.

Bean counters see things like, nearly impossible bosses, or end game raids .5% of the community can beat, and that is a lot of time spent on content a few thousand will enjoy. This is problematic. The more people that enjoy that content, means the more people who will buy your game.

incorrect, proven that your model is unsustainable. The old model worked fine for the millions that played it.

allakhazam was a wiki for EQ all the way back in 2000. It was listing all the stuff in the game and where to find it by community input. didn't change a damn thing either.

2012 rotmg was based as heck
youtube.com/watch?v=3GOZpZy804E
how is the game now, are pets still massively broken?

youtube.com/watch?v=eDgOdetSu-c

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That was the straw for me too. I made a few returns after they added legacy mode, but it was still far too gone.

If OSRS ever adds any transactions past bonds, I'll probably just seek out a private server or give it all up finally.

RIP Firefall.

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That doesn't explain the BLESS shit.

I'm having lots of fun in FFXIV. People are very friendly and social in novice network all day on Exodus server. Constant discussion between the game, other games, and even random topics (last night we were just talking about /pol/ shit for fun)

I've been leveling a tank (warrior), dps (ninja), and healer (scholar) on the same character. They're okay but I find Ninja to be the most engaging, feels like a melee version of Dotas Invoker. Getting into dungeons as a DPS is slow alone though, but if I ask a novice or mentor in Novice Network they join immediately and we get in the dungeon quick. Another thing I noticed is that I haven't encountered any Spanish speakers or BRs while playing on NA. I think it's a combination of the sub fee and having no Spanish localization gate them out which is very welcome surprise coming from other F2P/B2P MMOs.

A couple of ex Everquest players I know play FF14 now. They're endgame mentors with thousands of hours already invested

I don't wanna play a dead game

Until we get sufficiently good AI to help people code and cut off a lot of production costs of developing MMOs, there won't be a good MMO.

More like as long as MMOs are continuing to license game engines like Unreal and Cryengine instead of building them from scratch to fit their MMO specifically and have scalability in the future like WoW, FFXIV, and RuneScape then the genre is doomed

Fuck Korea

So is Shroud of the Avatar good? I know Garriott is(was) capable of developing some good shit in his heyday but was Shroud able to carve out its own niche?

>adamant

everyone called it addy, poser

didnt the Allods devs do that with both their games? Id play vanilla Allods day 1 to be honest, Allods was a really good game when it launched

Somebody with mega bucks just needs to create an open source project on a free engine that is totally Free to Play. No bullshit pay to win, maybe some cosmetics to hire devs and pay for servers. We need a game that is like league, but organized by age so that 15 year old discord trannies don't end up in games with 25 year old dude bros. Aside from the obvious micro-transaction cancer, It's just the social networking side of games that has to get fixed.

>games usually take like 5-8 years to complete
kys niggershit

TL;DR

Games need to start introducing age based ques, now that online games have been around for a while, there are some pretty big gaps in culture between players that makes playing a lot less fun.

>We need a game that is like league

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Well I'm not saying exactly like league, but a team strategy game that splits people up according to real world factors like age and region. This would make tournies a lot more meaninful and interesting. Similar to other sports whose teams are a demonstration of that state's talent.

Camelot Unchained and Pantheon are the only two MMOS that are worth looking in to.
Too bad they probably won't release until 2025

I think that any mmo should have fantasy elements in order for me to enjoy it and as such I would like a system where you could have mage characters and they would be able to learn teleportation magics that they could use on themselves or others. These magics should cut any combat stats your character can have by 3/4's or more as a penalty for the convenience and should take 100's of hours to learn one spell in real life. It is a tangible reason to have a highly specialized character who cannot participate in some forms of content while allowing them to be useful.

Am I the only one who thinks MMORPGs became to feature focused? The original point was to create a living/interactive community spaces for players to feel like they were living in that world. Nowadays mmos are basically just PSO clones where you run instances over and over again. The world is a complete after thought and community only goes as far as your guild. No roleplaying aspects to the game, no social anything, just 'content' which is done in better genres with better combat systems.

Play Tibia, it's a fun mmo rpg.

>BRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBR VIVA LA BRAZIL
No thanks

I hate how there even is best in slot items at all. I feel that all endgame gear should come from player crafting period. I also deeply dislike current raiding, having one static unchanging set of bosses in one static area where the only objective is to wipe 600+ times then finally clear the last boss and grind it for weeks to get more BiS.

I want raiding to be an adventure like the Fellowship of the Ring. The objective should be to reach an area that has higher quality crafting materials in an area of the world far out in no mans land. It should take an hour of journeying to even get to the dungeon and you should need to bring your entire guild, blacksmiths, culinarians, bankers, with you so you can set up a base of operations to create your endgame items. The entire world should be open pvp drop all items on death and revivals should only come from specialized non combat classes. You could have gangs of guilds trying to battle over areas with higher quality resources for weeks in real life.

Any mmo should have more non combat classes than combat classes and all items above grey should be player crafted including potions and foods.

Resources should have modifiers based on the area that give them unique traits when crafted such as iron from one area giving a life leeching effect to weapons and iron from a different area glowing as an example. That way power in weapons and armor is not tied to statistics but a combination of rare traits. All iron swords would deal the same damage but you would be able to create unique weapons with different materials.

Used to play and br was like the majority of the population. Now I'm back and after cip implemented the antibot program there is not a single brazilian playing in my NA server, this is the best timeline for Tibia right now.

Can we hunt Venezuelans?

if VRMMOs ever make it big, it will be thanks to .hack and despite SAO

>literally aion on motorcycles
who wants to tell him?

this

>Bluehole
>decent

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Honestly, if Phantasy Star Online II was made fully available to non-jap/asian countries to buy and play on servers without fear of being banned because WHAITU PIGGU GO HOMU, it would be the most successful MMO ever to normies and to autists.

I will forever be in confusion why SoJ continues to be such giant autists about non-Asian countries ever touching the game fully, or about making NA or EU servers for it.

sounds like you want to force everyone to play crafters.

I think crafting definitely has a place, but I think PvE attained gear from great challenges also has a place. I'd like to see several crafting things present as a part of end game content. Apothecary makes end game healing / oh shit button items. Chefs make gear that gives specific buffs. Enchanters add additional properties to items. Blacksmiths increase overall % bonus to items.

Let PvE end game bosses give you an item that gives the highest possible armor / primary stat. Let the rest of the stats need to be added by craftsmen. Allows for high variety of class personalization, and makes optimizing more than just fighting 10 bosses 100 times till they drop the gear you need.

>That image
Fuck dude...

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Im still mad about this, loved PSO ep 1 and 2 though Id actually prefer a remaster of that game over PSO2. I liked the overall setting of PSO1

noob

I just think that 90% of all people just are not skilled at playing games and would like an mmo that would reflect that. Leave combat to the people who have superhuman reflexes and let everyone else contribute in their own way. A combat class should have zero options to gear up by themselves.

Think of it this way. Any combat class would be directly analogous to a member of the nobility in the middle ages. The nobility had the best weapons and armors but none of them actually made a single thing they had it made. Your combat characters in the guild should be rare like a noble but have a high responsibility of protecting all the members of the guild, in return they get to benefit from the labor of their guildmates.

But MMOs offer you the experience of player interaction. You know there is a human behind the character and the more an MMO game system is reliable on player interaction the more successful it is. Convenience kills this genre. Oh you can enchant equipment with permanent buffs, what if we give you a tablet you can enchant for the same buffs so that you can put it on the auction house without having to deal with player interaction? Amazing right? Wrong.

MMOs would be a lot cooler if they ran like more traditional RPGs, and each realm had a dungeon master who could host events and put some importance on the actions of the people playing. Grinding to level cap with "you're the hero" quests and then farming instanced content with a hundred other jackasses doesn't evenly meter out the sense of reward that it once did.

world of warcradt

With "relevant" I mean "worth it", as in people doing that to progress and improve. A good example is RO, almost every map and dungeon stays relevant since they are either good spots for leveling, grinding or have good drops (cards, slotted gear) that are relevant for all the players.

>world of warcradt
Is that WoW's retarded cousin? Guess it can makes "MMOs" relevant again if it includes a Battle Royale mode and zero MMO and RPG elements.

I had complete wiki of Burning Crusade with world first kills before our guild progressed the content. Most people never looked on any wiki and we would still have to learn the fights and cooperate because we were progressing T5 even in rare gear (two tiers worse than the raid had). You had to grind resist gear to be able to even withstand some bosses and use unique tactics against them and most people were literal mouthbreathing retards and I believe they still are. The community was amazing with sworn enemies and the pvp was alive and well. Convenience more than wikis killed MMOs because BC existed in a space of readily available internet and wikis but it wasn't convenient like WotLK or Cata or later turds shat out by the husk of Blizzard.

I've seen plenty of mmos, generally indieshit ones, where there's your usual platoon of middle aged women that don't like the combat or exploring aspects of a game, and instead train tradeskills and make gear for their guild, friends or to sell ingame. There's people who, instead, enjoy the exploration and combat aspect of the game. Others enjoy exploring around to find resources to turn in for profit, others hunting monsters for rare or crafting drops...

Why does no mmo mix all of that in one class system? Let players be dedicated crafters, or rangers that track and hunt monsters for valuable resources, or guards that clear the area and keep it safe for those crafting dedicated ones... Ashes of Creation proposed a system like that but now we need something that isn't a blatant scam to actually pull it out

classix wow

is XIV a good mmo?

Uncharted Waters Online had something like that (except the guards, though there was a bounty system). An MMO with zones that could become overrun with mobs and in the process make activities more difficult (or potentially cause further problems the longer it's left unchecked) would be refreshing, allowing for some guard/mercenary work (and providing an outlet for people who like the endless mob killing grind).

Why don't MMOs do GM Events anymore?

So you want SWG? Too bad, it died for TOR.

Too expensive. Just loot at WoW Classic, they are adding a gay as fuck report system and item sharing to remove most of the GMs. Guess you can play NWN.

I've thought about this a number of times and sadly the game would need some way to discourage alt rolling or just limit characters to one per account, or a system like this could easily be abused by a single no life. Make your choice and commit to it, and finally bring some social aspect and "massive multiplayer" to the orpg. You'd make groups of adventurers let dedicated miners and other crafters tag along to a dungeon run if there's some sort of valuable material at the end of it only they can extract, for example. And like you mention, those crafters and gatherers would need the backup of an armed group to fight through monsters if a zone gets overrun. Feels like it's an improvement to make the world zones feel alive and giving them a point to exist beyond leveling through