Why in the actual hell did Toriyama not let weaker characters use Kaio-Ken?

Seriously, it makes no sense. Piccolo and Tenshinhan could've especially been more relevant of they could have access to it. At the end of Z, they could've probably done a x100 Kaio-Ken with little to no difficulty.

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Irrelevant characters are irrelevant not because of what they can or can't do, but due to the whims of the author and their popularity.

Because toriyama is a hack

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Toriyama didn't want them to be relevant in the story anymore.

It says that, yet we've never actually seen a display. I would think they'd make a point of it to at least once mention that Kaio-Ken was being used.

Toriyama is mentally disabled.

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Isn't the implication there ki suppression rather than the Kaio-Ken technique?

Prease be patient, he has autism .

toriyama is a hack

No, Piccolo tells Gero it does not matter that they steal energy from them because they can just amp themselves.

Implying that he wasn't using his full power while searching him out, and he simply used more energy after Gero caught him. Again, I'd think it would be made a bigger point of (especially narratively) if this was supposed to be him using Kaio-Ken.

>Piccolo and Tenshinhan could've especially been more relevant of they could have access to it
The point is exactly that he didn't want to deal with them and wanted to sideline them. Piccolo got his one power up with the fusion and then by the Buu Saga seemed to be sidelined right alongside everyone else, even though he should be stronger than the Saiyan kids.

Kaioken having explicit multipliers also would force him to acknowledge Super Saiyan's multipliers, rather than just depicting it as a generic power up.

>Implying that he wasn't using his full power while searching him out
That would be a dumb decision to make when they can not feel Gero's ki.
>and he simply used more energy after Gero caught him
>"One tremendous burst"

Here's a good example to explain what I'm trying to say. Remember when Goku arrived in the Saiyan Saga and amplified his power to 8001? He was also able to use Kaio-Ken AFTER that. Ki Amplification and Kaio-Ken aren't the same thing.

Not to mention Gero has no Ki to sense to begin with. What point would there be in burning all of your energy flying faster when he was using the rocks around him to hide?

Rasing your normal ki ≠ amping it up many times

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>Complains about Tenshinhan and Picco not having the kaioken
>Gets some proof of them having it
>Now he actively wants to downplay or dismiss it

"What you stole from me is nothing" Wouldn't that mean he's referring to the level of Ki he already has? My bad if I'm just not getting it, but I think it's a stretch to say this is an example.

I'm arguing that he didn't ACTUALLY use the technique in the panels you display. Again, it likely would've been made a bigger point of if he was actually meant to have attained it.

No he is not, Piccolo is telling him that he can amp his ki up, which is why the amount he lost means nothing.
So you do not want then to have the move then?

Uh, that's wrong. Being able to amp his ki up temporarily wouldn't mean that's the level of ki he just innately has. He's saying that he innately possess more ki than Gero stole. I do want them to have it, but if this was truly meant to be a display of them having it (I highly doubt it) this was a pretty poor way to do so.

Don’t worry, the guy you’re talking to is just an autist. That would have made a bigger deal out of anyone using Kaioken.

I wouldn't exactly call him an autist, he just thinks that since this panel somewhat matches the guidebook description, it would make sense to say he was using it here. I disagree, but I guess I somewhat understand.

who said they couldn't use it thing is goku was the only one who mastered it and seeing he was pure hearted he was the only one able to learn the genki dama.
In fact piccolo used soemthing similar but added his touch to it so became better.
Most people training with kaio sama learned it.
>Tenshin han learned kaioken buthe decided to make changes and use it for his shin kikoho which was able to stop cell second form despite tenshinhan being far weaker then a super saiyan.

>wouldn't mean that's the level of ki he just innately has
When did I ever say this? Where in the world did you even get this from our discussion? Piccolo amped his ki when he was fighting Gero not when he was getting drained.
>I do want them to have it
No you don't.

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Did you just say he used Kikoho with Kaio-Ken? Yeah, no way in hell.

But you're saying that the ki amp say specifically the Kaio-Ken technique. Kaio-Ken is not the exclusive way to amp ki, it just does it more effectively. There's not even a small nod to his training with Kaio-Sama here. Again, it's a major stretch.

Bros how do I do Kaio Ken in real life?

>No you don't
Of course I don't, which is why I made a whole thread about why I do want it. Now you are being an autist.

>Kaio-Ken is not the exclusive way to amp ki
Name another move that amps your ki like the Kaioken.

He used kaioken modified to be shoot on his shin kikoho in fact
>Kaio-sama : he shouldn't use that much his shin kikoho,his new technique was improved thanks to my learning but now he damages his body and shortens his life
kinda weird he said the same when goku used the kaioken x20 is like they applied the same technique but in different ways (goku used it to cover his body,tenshinhan used it to shoot ki blasts....wait isn't this the same way of SSJ goku uses the ki to cover his body and do more damage to fist fights while vegeta use the ki to shoot ki blasts)

Only Goku's body could take it.

The most basic of all, a simple ki charge. Do you think every fighter in the Dragon Ball universe just walks around using their full potential all of the time? Hell, Piccolo Daimao could even manage that much.

not everyone was stupid to use the technique as it was only goku
>Everyone learn kamehame ha
>They use that as basis and make their own arrangements to create their new techniques.
>goku keeps using the kamehame ha.
>Gohan learns makenko zapou yet instead of using it he creates his own new technique based on the technique he learned
>Doesn't mean he doesn't know how to use it he is just smart enough to see the defect of said technique and creates a new one.
toriyama always did the same.


>Ki control
>Comparing charging yourself up to 100% to making yourself 2 times stronger or 10 times stronger

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This entire thread has been reduced to vague headcannons.

This is quite literally what a kamehameha was as well, I'm not saying Piccolo or Tien didn't modify or implement kaioken but that page doesn't explicitly prove they did either

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>He did not deny being against Piccolo and Tenshinhan having Kaioken

>One point
>Not his overall ki
See? Do you FUCKING S E E?

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did you forget raditz battle
>start goku power 2
>Goku max charge power 435 (or similar)
>Goku Kamehame ha power 1200 (or similar)

You don't understand. Look at it this way. Piccolo is sharply raising his Ki in a moment which is comparable to CHARGING a Kamehameha for a considerable time.

A kamehameha doubles Goku's power. That is the multiplyer of a Kaioken.

I do but it's quite literally just a matter of phrasing which isn't much to go on, unless explicitly stated you could pin it on just an extension of the same ki manipulation technique they've always used. It would make sense that Tien uses his form of kaioken for his shin kikoho and that Piccolo would use something similar it's just that it's never directly referenced. By the same rule you could argue everyone now uses kaioken just like they do ki control and bukujutsu because Piccolo uses a blanket term about how "they" can amp their ki without specifying who he's talking about.

I'm not saying you're wrong just that you could draw any conclusion you want because it's left vague enough.

>Avoided my post
>start goku power 2
>Stated to have a power of 416

>unless explicitly stated
>I do
>A normal person's reaction to this
>Neat that's great!
>It's not true *goes out of his way to dismiss them having it*
>Bursts and Amplify are both used to describe Kaioken
>Both in Piccolo's page

Doesn't kaioken literally require you to scream kaioken and get a red aura. You know, like every other technique for the most part

>you to scream kaioken
No? Just like with IT Goku does not need to put his fingers on his head to use it.

Why does everyone go out of their way to have Goku put his fingers on his forehead?

No, Goku was using it on Namek 20x and had no red aura.

To make it look unique.

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>Keep the DB Gimmick of everyone following Goku's routine in between arcs and/or during the next arc after he completed it.
>Proper gravity training for gains
>Learning the Kaioken from King Kai
>Recieving Yardrat Training to learn Spirit Control and learning more esoteric abilities.
>Pick up Roshi's Max Power and spiritual refinement to start using more esoteric techniques from Master Muraito's era or filler like Annin's Giant Form.
>Have them take any of the copious power unlocking methods out there to tap into their hidden potential
>Go the Jiren route and continuously break your limits till you obtain absolute strength for Full Power and Super Full Power
>Bringing High-Tension to the forefront by harnessing the hysterical/adrenaline strength that humans gain during a crisis and/or uninhibited their full power to unironically make Limit Breaker a genuine thing like what Toei tried to push before Ultra Instinct got the ticket and regulated to Jiren, Evolution Vegeta and SS4
>Learn magic or senjutsu to develop their own mystical/magical transformation like Power Pole Pro or SS4
>Learn shapeshifting and how to tap into their inner beast for an Ikari state and/or SS4-like transformation
>Have the Elder Kai perform the ritual to achieve potential unleashed/Ultimate form
>Bringing High-Tension to the forefront by harnessing the hysterical/adrenaline strength that humans gain during a crisis and/or uninhibited their full power to unironically make Limit Breaker a genuine thing like what Toei tried to push before Ultra Instinct got the ticket and regulated to Jiren, Evolution Vegeta and SS4
>Use the concept of enlightenment to awaken the inner eye and manifest forms based on Nio, Asura, Wisdom King, Buddha, etc.
>Give them Pure Progress as the universal counterpart to Saiyan Power/Zenkai
>Gain a new power through honing their ki control to the utmost degree. Thereby making No Ego Zone canon.

>Undergo Kaioshin training to pick up special techniques and use that chance to make a proper technique and form of the Kaioshins as a means for self-actualization (Muga no Kyōchi) and getting into the ultimate form of the Zone. Which eventually translates into Ultra Altruism/Superego.
>Have them go on a warrior pilgrim into a mystic area to achieve a serene state and develop it into a State of Equanimity. (Mūga no Ryōik) which serves as a culmination of martial arts and a pinnacle that can rival the Ultra forms as one dive into the realm of the gods.
>Use the concept of unlocking one's floodgates/ internal elixir with the prospect of it playing on the dual energies of SeI and Dou to make a Super Human Form or technique.
>Use the concept of Jindan (Golden Core) to bring out a raging golden power and aureole, not unlike Fused Zamasu/Chronoa to differentiate it from super Saiyan despite pooling from the same source in Daoism and Buddhism for a perfected version of the aforementioned power up above
>Have them acquire god ki for a heightened state like Saiyan Beyond God or Toppo's Aura of a God state
>Pulling a Hit and Jiren to achieving Pure Progress to refine themselves and their technique/skills to make up for no flashy transformations
>Use their experiences and teachings to achieve a similar state to the Ultra Forms like Instinct and Ego.
>Turning the fleeting emotions and passions of oneself into power to reach a furious/berserker-like state.

wdym? he let other use taiyouken everytime... even cell can do it

There was read aura, Toriyama was hiding the aura from the readers to hype up Freeza once it's revealed that Goku was using Kaioken the whole time Freeza was beating his ass (this is literally spelled out btw).

What the fuck is this?

>There was [HEADCANON]
Invisible kaioken is real btw.

btw what did adult swim mean by revamping 25 year old shiet from ocean dub

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Cool shirt.

why not they use dragon ball to extend the chi ?

Did you get bullied out of your general or something?

If you had confidence in the validity of your own argument you wouldn't be trying to change the topic to whether or not that user "wants" something to be true. Twat.

probably because anyone that saw the freeza battle remember how everyone was saying "goku with his training could use kaioken x20" because the battle didn't show anything like that being used and surprise kaiosama says "he has been using kaioken x20 all this time"
>nooo that was a mistranslation
>muuh was an error because kaioken is red aura and it wasn't shown during freeza battle so goku wasn't using kaioken x20

...so you admit Kaioken does not need a red aura? Good.

so he could make a gag about it. for toyama, gag trumps plot, character balance and powerlevels

How the fuck can you fail to understand a scene so bad? This is something written by Toriyama, it's supposed to be simple.