What makes a good antagonist group? What are some of the things your favorite antagonist group does well?
What makes a good antagonist group? What are some of the things your favorite antagonist group does well?
Nice trip Faggot
Good, fun dynamic and being competent.
>Leader doesn’t lose the MC.
>Leader doesn’t lose by some as pull.
>Leader fights other powerful characters.
>Members aren’t complete jobbers despite being build up as power characters.
>Everyone member doesn’t have a sad pity backstory on how they became evil.
>Members treat each other has family/drinking buddies instead of co-workers
>Members aren’t defeated one by one by the main characters.
My favorite kind of villain group is the kind were the members have basically have no real affiliation to eachother, but they are just grouped together because they are the baddest motherfuckers around.
Uvogin got wrecked by Kurapika
They are stronger than the heroes and teamwork becomes essential in order to take them down. Bonus points if some sacrifices become inevitable because the power gap is just that large.
I think Kimetsu was close to perfect in that regard, especially in the last arc.
They just need to be interesting characters and their scenes together need to be fun to read.
Akatsuki, espadas, homunculi and genei ryodan/spiders are the only ones that matter. Everything after these feel soulless
This is one of the aspects I loved most about KnY. The Upper Moons are actual threats and require a concentrated team effort to stand any chance against one. And even then, characters on our side still end up dying or taking permanent damage in some way.
Pure garbage, worse when you realize none of them mattered at all just two of them
Meh tier, but fun sometimes
Meh tier, no strong feelings of any kind
Never cared about this one so I don't know
I barely even remember these guys and what they do. The three ants in one of the later arcs left more of an impression on me.
>Caring for each other
>Having good values that makes their antagonism meaningful
The Hadlar Royal Guard does a good job.
the public reaction to the Mugen Train movie tells me that Infinity Fortress will be received as one of the most memorable shonen arcs ever by the time it is animated.
the UMs were a blast as antagonists, they all felt like videogame bosses.
Camaraderie among very competent yet mentally fucked-up villains is the best way to make an antagonist group. No debate.
>members consider themselves specials and god's favorites
>in reality they hate everything god ever created
>their power is not something physical aka fightfags but rather something deep and manipulative
>absolute control of everyone's mind
>do everything possible to hide their true nature
>change history when they judge it necessary
>if you dare to say their name you'll be deleted from history
Having a well thought out plan that takes into account the strengths of the protagonists.
Design is very important.
In battle manga, unique skills make them feel more like a team instead of just a an extra battle or body count. Unique skills are also usually tied to good matchups.
I don't mind about the relationship between them, you could make them hate each other or love each other, you can even make them participate against their will, it can work depending on the angle.
The leader makes or breaks the group.
Juppongatana is my favorite antagonist group, I don't think they do anything special, I just think they just hit the right spots.
The UM's were great, but I do wish that they were around for more parts of the story. Most of them would maybe get one or two scenes outside of their fight, and then die in their first fight we see them in, Akaza being the only exception.
posing an actual threat the the MC instead of just lip service
A fucking cap.
What about villain groups that don't have a leader? Ones that just sort of work together on their own without any instruction or guidance.
Uniform and aesthetic plays a big part for me. I was never into the Akatsuki's nail painting or their outfit despite people loving them. Whilst Bleach had a lot of issues, the Espada were cool as shit plus they had all those banging osts in the anime
I've yet to read a manga with that sort of grouping, closest thing that comes to mind are circumstancial antagonists, like in sports manga.
Lord Tensen in Jigokuraku were a recent antagonist group that I enjoyed.
They looked out for each other, to an extent, and weren't out for the protagonist group but rather just defended themselves against them.
From their point of view they were just chilling and then a bunch of people showed up who wanted their head. A shame they fought seperately aside from one fight.
What kind of things would make a leaderless villain group work then? Would it be harder to pull off?
I don't know. I think they MC or general cause will make it or break it. Characterization is important, but I think that's a general thing.
Can't call any of them good when none of these antagonist groups ever fight together, it's always disconnected 1v1s or a dogpile on one member.
Coordinated uniforms with some customization, but not too much
A lot of the time, antagonists individually are a lot more powerful than the main characters individually. The only way multiple antagonists working together against one main character could work and be believable is if the main character they're fighting is super OP in their own right.
Antagonists shouldn't be in a group larger than 3-4.
5 at MOST.
Anything larger and they're just chumps seeking refuge in numbers.
1 villain + his villainous waifu + a dragon = good
God Hand = okay
Akatsuki = shit
Espadas = shit
The mystery behind them
>Fucking based curse family we'll never get again
Antagonists just letting themselves be singled out and surrounded isn't believable either. They're not stupid, they're supposed to be a cohesive group. If they're a lot more powerful individually, all the more reason to use the same tactics as main characters since it would be much more effective.
Having cool outfits
Wani took her JoJo inspiration very seriously, it's like she wanted to pour every bit of what a character was about into a single encounter.
While I agree with you that I wanted to see more of them, I also find it charming how KnY never went the "this was just a greeting" route, where an enemy who has the advantage leaves "just because". Excluding Tangerine's first meeting with Muzan, every time a demon crossed paths with a slayer, someone from either side ended up dead.
>1 villain + his villainous waifu + a dragon = good
Give an example
I like how Jogo gets a chair. Makes him seem older and more important
I think it was a net good for KnY that every single fight was to the death, even if it did mean we saw less of the UMs than we might have liked.
I think the issue is more about the antagonists not having a good or believable reason to be separated rather than the issue being the separation itself. I think if it's written well enough, they could justify being separated. Like, maybe they're off in their own parts of the world doing important antagonist matters and can't reach each other in any reasonable amount of time.
just a bunch of niggers doing niggery
They're protagonists of another viewpoint.
>I also find it charming how KnY never went the "this was just a greeting" route, where an enemy who has the advantage leaves "just because"
What would be a better/more justified reason for leaving? Aside from sunlight since that was already done.
Doesnt count if the cast does nothing 95% of the fucking time
>"Let's play cards while one person fights all the shadowbeasts at once!"
Mother fucking BnHA's villains have more development and they are dogshit
It's a lot more gory though. Hoping they don't censor anything.
they have to be based
hot girls all that matter - kubo
Genei is the only one of these that matter
Akatsuki especially was literally a joke 2/3 of the way through
I like when they are actually threatening and kill some of the cast like the Upper Moons.. their fights they were a soo much better than Muzan
Cool and a variety of powers to make all their fights unique and fun.
Not anime, but I fucking love organization 13.
Each fight against them was a fucking treat.
I'm gonna be honest with you. I actually don't think these guys are a good villain group. I think if KH was a shounen manga, they'd be in the shit tier of villain groups
See the group on the OP, and do the exact opposite.
The Kimetsu group is all Saturday morning cartoon tier trash. It IMMEDIATELY implodes the moment you question their motivations or actions.
>Why did they not just group up and kill all the Demon Slayers?
There is NO ONE in KnY's underage fanbase who can answer this.
Compare and contrast with a good shonen writer - Araki. Even in one of the worst parts of JoJo, there was the Execution Team. Araki never needs to address any of the plot holes, they answer themselves.
>Why did they need Trish?
She could be used with Babyface to track down the boss.
>Why did they not just gang up on the main group?
1) They wanted to track down Trish, killing Bruno's team was just a necessary evil. They needed to split their resources to do this. And they did it perfectly at every point.
2) They literally lose to Bruno's team. Risotto is hard countered by Narancia and Giorno. Ghiaccio is hard countered by Bruno. Those are their two heavy hitters, the rest aren't suited for all out battles.
On top of that, their motivation - extremely simple as it was - was perfectly understandable and reasonable. Despite being basically throwaway villains of the week, Araki's casual brilliance elevated them into one of the best villain groups only rivaled by HxH, FMA and other JoJo parts. Coincidentally those are the three best battle shonen of all time.
Meanwhile, KnY is Naruto for the cuck generation and its villain group makes Akatsuki look like a bunch of Raskolnikovs.
Mic dropped. Spics seething.
i think the biggest ones that you somehow missed are
>leader wrangles the entire squad into obedience with his strength/presence
>even through that there is still disloyalty and treachery
you could've just said you're gay and save everyone the time
based & redpilled
cringe & brownskinned
lmao u gay, fr fr
Gyutaro uuuhooooo hnnnn gyutaro cock inside me Gyutaro tongue in my mouth Gyutaro making lewd noises while he has sex with me bbbhnnnn Gyutaro giving me babies hhhhmmmffff
>>leader wrangles the entire squad into obedience with his strength/presence
If any of the stronger senior members of the Phantom Troupe wanted Chrollo dead, he is immediately dead. The only reason he's the leader, nominally, is because he has the most overpowered ability. Uvogin is the actual leader, the true Alpha male of the group and it was his death that caused the group to disintegrate.
The scales must be set accordingly.
The stronger they are the fewer their numbers and the more it must cost to take them down.
If you start with a weaker group of villains then their numbers must be equal or greater than the good guys and they can be expendable to hype some experienced heroes.
However, as we move closer to the final antagonist the heroes need to start dying or else it becomes stupid.
Bleach, Naruto and One Piece dragged on without the heroes taking significant losses to the point nobody gets hyped about their supposed upper ranks.
Kimetsu no Yaiba felt really good because every antagonist amongst the UM charged a hefty price to be defeated even with the occasional heroic asspull.
Espadas, Sternritters, Akatsuki, Kara, Sea Warlords and now even Yonkou all don't live up to the hype of fucking up the heroes against the wall.