Do people actually self-insert...

am asian and basically match the appearance of every generic hentai mc in existence but doesn’t self-insert, it’s probably a nip culture thing

They say they don't, and then they get irrationally angry when anything bad happens to the bland as room temperature water high school boy protagonist, no matter how justifiable. Self-insertion isn't about literally confusing yourself for the hero, it's about refusing to look at things from a wider perspective. Refusing to acknowledge every character has their own business, often independent of the hero, which causes more friction the more complicated a narrative gets. You'll hear it's just about empathizing with characters, but it's the polar opposite. They only empathize with a single character, typically projecting their own desires on him.

It's latching onto the generic hero and considering nothing but how everything in the setting relates back to him. It doesn't even have to be the main character; it can be a side character someone stubbornly insists the world should revolve around. I've seen that happen often enough. If there's any doubts these people exist, they should be cleared after this season's Shokei Shoujo. People are out there angrily fantasizing about what if this random boy with 5 minutes of screentime lived and went on his own revenge adventure.

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A bit of a broad stroke there. Sounds like you just hate self-inserters being in denial which is respectable due to the hypocrisy of it.

Blank slates are bad for self-inserting
They have to be at least intelligent, nihilistic, and have a wicked sense of humor

I like the time stopping guy.

I find it way harder to empathize with a character when they do that eyeless bullshit
When they're too much of a blank slate it's just weird and distracting

at that point I’d see them as their own character that the viewer is just tagging along with

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Well they might not be literally you but they'd be literally me

If can't self insert you might be an npc like the people without a voice in their head

only npcs self-insert that's why every isekai protag is almost the same

If you're unable to identify with the protagonist of a story you're probably an NPC.

Self-insert characters are for people who need to be told how to think...

imagine being born as an average ugly japanese male in the 21st century. you're a soulless husk in a dying society. which is true in the west as well, but in japan you're also a manlet with a tiny dick. must be hell.

NPCs can't, because they lack the imagination, they can only passively consume entertainment.

you’d think a voice inside your head would make it harder to self-insert into someone you’re not

I just don't understand self insertion at all. I always watch a show knowing that this person isn't me and doesn't act like me. Even the "self insert" characters this thread is about don't act like me at all. I don't understand. Do most people self identify as ugly and dickless? Do they not have any hobbies or passions? Do they make no comebacks, jokes, or insults? Hell, if the vessel character talks at all with, and says something you would never say, doesn't that break the immersion completely? Videogames can have silent protags, making it easier (personally, I find it disconnects me because the silence reminds me I'm playing a videogame). If you sell insert, just... Tell me how. I don't understand.

But the mark of a self-insert character is that they don't have a strong personality of their own, leaving much to the imagination of the viewer. NPCs need strongly defined protagonists because they lack the ability to fill the blanks with their imagination.

but the idea of making a headcanon of what you’d do as the bland self-insert character while watching the anime sounds like pure chunni autism

Yes.

>leaving much to the imagination of the viewer
I think this is the part we've got disagreement on. Who watches a show with a featureless protagonist and thinks to themselves "I must make shit up about this character to enjoy myself."

How is self-inserting even real? You will never be an anime/manga/LN character no matter how "nice", limp-wrist, or dull he is. Those kinds of characters almost always make stories worse anyway due to their passiveness and lack of ambition. Hell you might as well just make your own imaginary world/fantasy; you'd have a better and more interesting time with a lot more freedom

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I think it's more that people watch the show and say "Woah, that's literally me!".

Is the throught process "If I were him, I'd do this to make Heroine-chan smile"?

>Those kinds of characters almost always make stories worse anyway due to their passiveness and lack of ambition.
But how are people supposed to identify with people that aren't passive and lacking in ambition? Would those types of people even waste their precious time on this earth watching anime?

yes, they do, notice how anime that dont have one mc fall into obscurity, especially if theyre not highschool aged

Part of me thinks you're right and people do actually think to themselves "That's literally me" but I refuse to believe it because it sounds so fucking retarded.

>Pure
>Chuuni
>Autism
And this is bad because?

I bet you never read a book or at least go to a book store.

People strongly identify with characters like Hachiman from Oregairu to the point where they get personally insulted when the show or the character is critiqued.

Idk. I don't think success and ambition is measured by the entertainment you watch. My former boss is the most successful man I know. He know only watches the Dodgers (no other team). If we watched a movie show or together, he'd usually leave halfway through to cook or clean or get drunk.

Must be a strong form of escapism or something because 8man getting shat on is a national pass-time.

Or I can have the worst of both worlds and write shitty fanfiction. Did you ever consider that, smart guy?

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which is odd because despite the fact that I also find Hachiman very relatable, I can see he has his own personality and motivations which makes him feel like a separate person.

Some people are naturally good at things, so they don't need to be particularly ambitious. Others are ambitious but lacking in talent, so no matter how hard they try they still end up failing.

My point was: a person who in his own self-image is ambitious and driven should probably ask himself whether his self-image matches the reality if he wastes his time watching anime.

then dont identify with people
anime that focus on sympathy, anime that very obviously show a completely different lifestyle and experiences are better because you dont waste time trying to put yourself in the shoes of the mc, instead you focus on the events that happen in the anime and the learned experiences of the character
people who watch to self insert want to make their own life feel fulfilling, but watching distinct characters gives you a perspective closer to hearing a friend's tragic story or some shit and rooting for him, where self insertion is entirely selfish

Probably because he said or did something you found disconnecting. That's the problem with defining your character more strongly, on one hand it's possible that you create an even stronger connection to the viewer, if he can relate, but it may also alienate those that can't. Some people truly have this "literally me" type of experience watching, others don't.

>self insertion is entirely selfish
Yes, but I fail to see the issue with that. There is no obligation to not-be selfish when it comes to indulging oneself in something as silly and pointless as watching cartoons.

No, it's probably because he's not brain damaged. There's a reason that self-inserters are the target audience of the flood of shitty isekai every season, and it's because they're dumb enough to watch the lowest effort shit imaginable as long as it has a zero personality protag with bullshit op powers and a harem to whom nothing bad ever happens.

That might as well be the case, but what are you going to do about it? They're getting the anime they want, you don't. All you can do is whine impotently on Yea Forums while they're having fun.

Hi Op
>

That's retarded, a huge reason for writing a story is to create a scenario where the reader can empathize with a character who has had radically different life experiences, to communicate a feeling someone that they wouldn't get in their normal life. If you make a story where the main character is made totally bland for the purpose of you being able to 100% project onto him, it renders the point of even writing a story pointless, you might as well just have a day dream fantasy about being a cool bad ass hero.

>a huge reason for writing a story is to create a scenario where the reader can empathize with a character who has had radically different life experiences, to communicate a feeling someone that they wouldn't get in their normal life.
The reason why these stories are successful is because they typically confront a character that is 'exactly' like the viewer, with a situation they don't normally experience, e.g. being popular with girls, being powerful, experiencing an adventure in a fantasy world, etc.
Blandness is often functional, but it is not a requirement. e.g. characters like Hachiman or Rudeus aren't exactly bland. They have their own views, they take action, it just so happens that their personality overlaps with that of the viewer base, making them relatable.

It's pretty sad that some people don't have the requisite mirror neurons and thus empathy to relate to a character. Or maybe they don't have the introspection to even notice when a character is like them in the first place to identify with one? Or perhaps it could be narcissism that makes them believe that they are such a unique individual that their personality could never even remotely be portrayed within a story?
Well whichever one it is that causes these dumb threads to pop up, I can only feel bad for these people who will never be able to properly immerse themselves in a story. They will forever just mentally be outside observers, unlike the majority of the world who have the ability to put themselves in someone else's shoes.

Also self-insert refers to when an author inserts a proxy of themselves into the story. I have no clue how that term got corrupted on this illiterate board to mean this bullshit. Stop fucking using this term incorrectly. Audience surrogate, Everyman archetype, there are actual terms for this that already exist, you know since the idea has existed probably since storytellers has audiences to tell stories to.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everyman
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AudienceSurrogate

There are even examples on there, a multitude of them.

That doesn't stop them from being self-inserts.

I thought "self-insert" was a literary criticism, when a show is so self-indulgent in the author's delusion/fetishes/wishes that it completely abandons any sense of realism or subtly.

Now it's mutating into some gay narcissistic punch-up term directed at people who... daydream?

>uh these user submitted entries are totally expert sources

The average high schoolers idiot on Yea Forums just sees the unfamiliar term, and instead of opening a dictionary just thinks "self insert? that must mean i insert myself... literally! How silly!"

don’t know about anyone here but I have more of a problem with writers that use the bland self-insert mc as a lazy hook to get the impressionable mindless otaku’s attention to pull in ratings for their seasonal forgettable isekai

nice wall of text
the irony when self-inserter claims people who can't relate to blank state protagonists are narcissists, sounds like pure projection

When people say self-insert, they specifically mean option 3 on the TVT link. An everyman, an infodump target, or a POV character is not the same thing as the faceless cipher. Faceless ciphers are created as audience self-inserts in the same way an author would make an avatar for themselves as an author self-insert.

Please make sure you understand the usage of the terminology you get angry about, lest you look like a prick.

The fuck are you people talking about? You can only self insert in amazing characters, pic related is the most self inserted character ever, who hasn't done the hand snap.

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