Is he right?

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Milton is boring garbage. Shakespeare actually has soul.

No.
>T.s someone who has read all of Shakespeare
He says this like it's a flex, or particularly difficult lmao. It would also be pretty difficult to make someone so anti monarchy a national poet

>He says this like it's a flex, or particularly difficult lmao.
I mean, the book is like 1000 pages and written in 16th century English.

>You’re called to your door by an unexpected ring. Greeting you pleasantly, a somewhat disheveled old man in a rumpled cardigan, wishes to convince you of something urgent for your own good. His doleful eyes and sincere manner convince you to let him in and and to take a seat. He launches into a long winded lecture about the importance of Shakespeare in our daily lives.
>Stealing a moments break from this dry yet interesting speech, you offer to fetch some drinks from the kitchen. Upon your return you see he has started some kindling aflame in your fireplace and presently is cracking the spines and rumpling the pages of your collection of Lovecraft horror stories. Looking up at you he tosses it on the kindling.
>”I’m sorry to have to inform you, but this will never be anything other than cheap schlock. And never considered for the canon. You’re better off without its presence embarrassing you on your shelves. Not even tucking it away in a dusty cardboard box in the attic could you escape the shame. Let it go lad. Let it go”

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filtered by Milton

No, it's a very amateurish opinion (which Yea Forums gets a lot of for some reason).

The value of Shakespeare isn't just pretty language. His value as a poet, following Goethe, must be sought in his characters. He is pure drama, with no invasion of the literary as one finds in French drama. Neither Milton nor Spenser can equal Shakespeare's characters or themes.

>His value as a poet, following Goethe, must be sought in his characters.
Poetry is not about characters. Shakespeare is a great playwright but Spenser is the better poet.

Pound said that Milton was far inferior to most English poets. I'd take his opinion over yours.

faggot

lol

>some guy on Yea Forums said so
oh brother

>truth depends on who said it and where he said it

Pound was the proto-Rupi Kaur. His own poetry was not even close to Milton.

If you think being a poet just means writing metre then you're retarded.

It means writing poetry, not being known for le plays.

Wow okay you are retarded.

seethe

>t. susceptible to mass appeal garbage

>spenser shits over shakespeare in every way
>the faerie queen is better than all of shakespeare
retarded

>Lovecraft? A bad parody of Poe.

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Kino

>Shakespeare? Odd homosexual poetry.

It's better poetry than anything in Shakespeare.

Post an excerpt from it that’s better than Hamlet or King Lear.

I don’t know abt everyone else buy this is exactly what I thought reading Hamlet. The exact line
>shit that line was really good
entered my brain when reading about Fortinbras’ conquests. That story is long as fuck man I have no clue why Hamlet bumblefucks around for Acts I and II. The funniest line will always be
>The woman doth protest too much, methinks.

>The funniest line will always be
>>The woman doth protest too much, methinks.
Nope. The funniest line will always be
"Go thee to a nunnery".
I actually think I said that to a girl once (or something in these lines).
kek

I really think Hamlet is too long though;
I enjoyed "The Tempest" much more.

Shit you are totally right I completely forgot about that
>Get thee to a nunnery
Man Hamlet really blew Ophelia out, causing minbreak and shit. I still have to read the Tempest and I’m going to read it next.

>It means writing poetry
Like the two mini epics, 100+ sonnets, and other assorted poetry from within the plays themselves? Like that, you fucking spastic retard?
Post a single shred of evidence or poetry to back that up. Pound wrote some of the most musical and innovative poetry in English. To say nothing of his technical achievements and nearly unparalleled English criticism

I think he is but I'm a big Spenser fanboy. I even think Marlowe was a better playwright in some regards.

I'm still waiting or any passages of Spenser or Milton to be posted that surpass Shakespeare. Milton wrote a musical (and horrendously boring) poem, and Spenser wrote a not very musical, even more boring, and somehow less dramatic poem.

They have their charms, and their place: but they are not a substitute for Shakespeare and the other greats of poetry.

>musical
You don't even know what Elizabethan or Cromwellian era English sounded like and you're talking about how musical it is, pseud.

>Man Hamlet really blew Ophelia out, causing minbreak and shit.
nosweatshakespeare.com/quotes/famous/get-thee-to-a-nunnery/
Right now I feel bad for Ophelia, she didn't deserve that. She was a good girl, all in all.

>I still have to read the Tempest and I’m going to read it next.
You won't be let down.

>Like the two mini epics
Which ones?

Shakespeare's sonnets are not very good and I don't think most people--barring maybe actors--hold them up as examplars of the art. His reputation is based upon his plays, which I agree are among the best in the language. But if he had never written a sonnet I doubt his reputation would be any different.

>I'm still waiting or any passages of Spenser or Milton to be posted that surpass Shakespeare.
Encore!

not even remotely close

>horrendously boring poem
"No one ever wished it longer." - Dr. Johnson

The Rape of Lucrece
Venus and Adonis

based harold

>Pound
>An authority on anything literary
To be Poundpilled is to understand that he vastly estimated his literary abilities and thought he was far more intelligent than he actually was. He's a honeypot for midwits.

agreed but the point is that there is great poetry within his plays and arguably that poetry is why his plays are so popular.

I see what they mean but they're definitely overly contrarian to make the point. I think the problem is a lot of people think the artist who is esteemed to be 'the best' is somehow close to flawless in their art, when in reality the usually just better than the average in the most part but of course their work's going to be worse than others in specific ways

filtered + tricked by Satan

I love Spenser, but he's *the* definition of having to wade through bullshit to get to the good stuff (admittedly, the good stuff is some the best bar none).

I have browsed this board for so long, waiting for literally anyone to back up "uhh Pound wasn't actually smart", and every time his criticisms are brought up, its one butthurt retard that says he's retarded and leaves, without ever posting a shred of evidence or an example, I don't even get poetry excerpts.
The sonnets range in quality a lot imo, but there are still some extremely popular and well known ones, and you study them frequently in english classes from middle school to post-grad seminars. I think they're culturally entrenched enough, and (if my former english professor is to be believed) some of the best poetry in english.

Canto (11?) of The Faerie Queene is actually pretty good, I think its a better dragon fight than in Beowulf. You have to wade through like 6 miserable cantos, to even get there though.

Oh 100%

If Shakespeare was better he would not have popular appeal.

>Canto (11?) of The Faerie Queene is actually pretty good, I think its a better dragon fight than in Beowulf.
Can you post it?

It's really long, I'd go over the character limit like a dozen times lol. You can read it here: gutenberg.org/files/15272/15272-h/15272-h.htm

This, but unironically

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LET'S GET REEADY TO TUMBLR

Test

the two women on the right are fuckable
minus the plastic dick, of course

Wow that was actually great. That might be the best dragon battle I've read in literature.

>I think Shakes got overrated because the anglos needed a canonical "poet of England", so they picked someone who had a good balance of artistic merit as well as mass popular appeal
55 responses ITT and no one pointing out yet that this goober is just regurgitating Tolstoy
"I think" lmao

The thread is about Tolstoy on Shakespeare. Tolstoy was an idiot when it came to Shakespeare in any case

Tolstoy was an idiot about most things
>dude just read stories about magic chickens and never have sex, you'll be happy bro, just trust me

What! That makes it even worse. Framing Tolstoy's ideas as his own in a thread literally about those ideas lmao
And yes, Tolstoy is my favorite writer but he was a terrible thinker, and it only got worse with age. By the time of What is Art he was nearly senile. I find that people who haven't actually read the essay will mention that Tolstoy didn't like Shakespeare "either" as if that absolves them, but it's like, you realize he denigrated Beethoven alongside him right? He had completely lost the plot.

Does Tolstoy have the biggest 'fall from grace' of any artist in any medium? Trying to think of a comparable decline. Maybe Francis Ford Coppola?