Misunderstands Plato in your path

Did nieyzsche not advocqte for perspectivism? What am I misunderstanding?

>mentally-ill, unhealthy and ressentiment-filled incel
Sounds like Paul, the founder of Christianity

rent free

I genuinely want to have a discussion about his validity as a philosopher but everyone just shirks away in fear claiming I never read him.

Sure, and Nietszche. More obsessed with ending suffering than any christling.

>infantile rhetoric is actually ‘deep’ or ‘profound’
> mentally-ill, unhealthy and ressentiment-filled
Found the real Nietzsche reader. He just described Christianity

lmao Nietzsche was literally a celebrity who lived in brothels for half his life

Not true, you start off by impishly declaring he is a nihilist and that he wants people to delude themselves

>obsessed with ending suffering
Did we read the same author?

>Or do you think plato was a christian?
I think Christians like to claim Plato all the time and pretend to not be Christians to seem more credible.

I only echoed the worthy opinion of Heidegger.

"Meaningless suffering" its no wonder why some people consider him a radical christian
Then you might be schizophrenic.

t. a Christian until proven otherwise (with an explanation on how Nietzsche "misunderstood" Plato)

Ive read Nietzsche too and he is right. Something being fancy can't hide fundamental issues beneath the facade. Also perspectivism is self-refuting

>oh no, it's not my opinion and I won't elaborate further—it's the worthy opinion of another writer
So, as I said

Wtf are you on about. Read The Gay Science. Specially the amor fati part. Nietzsche has no intention of ending suffering. He sees it as a something necessary and something we must face if we want to be happy

Nietzschean perspectivism is not self-refuting, but the libtarded version of it certainly is.

t. a schizo until he's consumed his meds.

Plato knew that the only way to understand the world is through abstractions. He did not think the material world was fake, only that it was an imperfect imitation of the forms because the material world is subhect to change/flux whereas the forms are eternally unchanging. That was his epistemology. Nietzsche just accused socrates of hating life because he eisegesised his last words to mean "death is a cure" and "duh, socrates diddled plato lol"
There is really no substance to his critique of Plato.

Ive recently taken a shallow dive into existentialism and embracing suffering as fundamental to the human condition sounds like a common theme. Is this born out of anti rationalist philosophy sucking the life out of everything? But why focus on suffering rather than something like joy? Is anyone able to guide me in starting with existentialism?

Nietzsche is so obsessed by suffering that he devises an incredibly elaborate and highly obscure (sadly still incorrect) worldview in order to "affirm" suffering. He was quite literally insane and likely suffering from both narcissism and an unhealthy inferiority complex in relation to Wagner. Whatever insights exist in him, occur accidentally as a byproduct of his cope. As a philosopher, he is largely a historical peculiarity, insofar that his philosophy has way less value than his critique and personality as a moment in historical time. The offshoot of his influence is entirely historical, people comment on his occurrence to critique or develop their own thoughts, rather than try to salvage his own project, which in a vacuum is just loudly proclaimed poor philosophy.

>perspectivism is self-refuting
Can you explain what you mean without recourse to categorized isms as if this were some Pokemon battle where Fire beats Grass? Most people on Yea Forums who bash Nietzsche are merely e-converts to the religion of the month and hate him for being an atheist. If so I would assume this "perspectivism" issue relates to that—if you are using God as your means to evaluate then there is only one true perspective so Nietzsche must be wrong for dissenting. Yet despite the adherence to a doctrine of vicious leveling, the sort of person who has retreated into theology in a post-Nietzsche world is probably hostile to the cultural outcome this leveling has given us, and in a rather cargo-cultish manner, assumes that Christianity will undo its fruits. So do elaborate on what you mean, for I would very much prefer Nietzsche were wrong myself.

>Nietzsche just
Nietzsche didn't "just" anything, retard. His criticism of Socrates can't be summarized in one book, much less in one sentence.

>[devises] worldview in order to "affirm" suffering
This is every worldview. This is why you haven't killed yourself. There is some reason you value your life above whatever pains it necessarily and inevitably brings.

Nietzsche ultimately reduces being to nothing. Life has no meaning.

The founder of Christianity was Jesus. Christianity existed before Paul.

>But why focus on suffering rather than something like joy?
It's not like "focus on suffering" . It's rather "learning to suffer" and "enjoying suffering". What I get from it is two things: First, be ambitous, ambitous people suffer and constantly seek for suffering cause that's how one creates values, by destroying others. Second, we all suffer so instead of trying to run away from it like christcucks do, we must face it.

You only feel this way about him because you are a weakling / slave moralist.

It can because it is without any substance. He augured in Socrates his preconcieved notions.

Nietzsche is self-refuting par excellence, his entire thought is littered with "and this is why this is wrong, except this time when I do it". He does not want to engage in metaphysics or consistency, so he intentionally hides himself behind rhetoric, delivering his poison hidden in poetic incantations instead of stated openly. He does basically everything he accuses others of doing. Moreover, it is a pointless debate because he has schooled his followers that every critique of his proclamations is just more evidence that he is right and like Pavlov dogs they are trained to shout "slave morality, anti-life, last man" everytime their master is proven to be wrong. Every Nietzsche thread on here is proof of this.

How so?

Sounds like masochism. Or redundant.

If nobody has access to universal truth, then we have no reason to believe perspectivism itself is true.

>He was quite literally insane and likely suffering from both narcissism and an unhealthy inferiority complex in relation to Wagner

>He augured in Socrates his preconcieved notions

>his entire thought is littered with "and this is why this is wrong, except this time when I do it"

Brainlets, or perhaps just one brainlet.

>run away from it like christcucks do, we must face it.
Shirley, Kirkegaard was the father of existentialism and embraced suffering, no? Or is what you're explaining to me exclusively Nietzsche's existentialism?

>Nietzsche ultimately reduces being to nothing. Life has no meaning.
This is literally the opposite of what Nietzsche is trying to point out, you retard. Yes, there's some nihilism to Nietzsche's thought like the lack of truth or joy through pain. But, what he wants you to do is to wake the fuck up and stop living a conservative life style, like Socrates or Christianity imposed. Try dangerous things, get out of your comfort zone, live life, affirm life. Find the meaning on life by living, not by self conserving.

Not true. If you think the death of God makes life meaningless it is because you are a nihilist pretending to believe in God. You are affirming the negation of life and of nature (this is nihilism and world-denial), or the 'divine' (this is the cope). Thus you negate whoever affirms life and nature (to the negation of the divine), because you are interested in defending the denial of the world. So Nietzsche is negating the negation as an affirmation, and you are just negating affirmation by upholding the priestly escapism that is divinity. And that is the most nihilistic position

>>He augured in Socrates his preconcieved notions
He did. He just used flowery prose to call him anti-life withput any reasonings.

>then we have no reason to believe perspectivism itself is true
Incorrect. In Nietzschean perspectivism, truth is superseded by power. Power becomes the function by which perspectives are made unequal again in Nietzsche's philosophy. If you think the absence of universal truth renders his perspectivism a self-refuting notion then you have only grasped his perspectivism in light of the value structure that he thoroughly repudiated.

Why are you assuming there is an accessible universal truth while saying the individual perspectives we have are invalid? How would we ever access it?

What does it mean to live a good life? Maybe start with plato. Don't know what the fuck you mean by self-conserving.

What Nietzsche wants is kind of irrelevant in relation to what his philosophy collapses into. People who read Nietzsche as a self help author shouldn't be allowed to have philosophical discussions.

>withput any reasonings
Socrates himself admitted it.

This is pure nonsense. I did not mention the death of god. Nietzsche affirms that life ultimately has no meaning. He is a nihilist. He even calls himself a nihilist numerous times

BASED. Neetfags coping.

How so?

I'm a dumb ESL so I was trying to say something related to conservation.
His philosophy collapses in a world where there are literal slaves and masters. Most Yea Forums users wouldn't even have access to education in a Nietzschean world. So it's quite irrelevant cause that shit's never happening.

You realize you can criticize Nietzsche without being a Christian?

Nietzsche debases man from a being with God-given rationality into a mere animal. For him, man's natural thought processes that turn him to God as the teleological end of his destiny are a very big problem. In order to deify man in place of God, he has to debase him into something less and then invert the order in order to call this debased creature as something more than what this creature is already naturally predisposed to, that is thinking and ultimately, by grace, finding God. He is just a boring radical humanist.

His last words were "Crito, we owe a cock to Asclepius; pay it and don't forget." It means he was thankful to the god of medicine for relieving him of the illness of life.

>He is a nihilist. He even calls himself a nihilist numerous times
Literally where? I've read his major works and he's never done that. Am I missing something? He goes against nihilism. What might or might not be nihilism it's up to interpretation. But Nietzsche considers his thought to be the one that brings most meaning to life. It's got nothing to do with nihilism, you retard. That's just your take on it

That Nietzsche's retarded reading of the quote I was talking about. Completely baseless.

>His philosophy collapses in a world where there are literal slaves and masters
Sound kinda similar to Marx &/ Hegel...

>Completely baseless
Read the fucking line. The meaning is transparent unless you're a moron.

He refers to himself as an active nihilsit. I forget where

>life ultimately has no meaning
You got filtered. Probably missed the whole bit about evaluation, eternal return, etc. That's okay I know Yea Forums can't handle "esotericism" unless a French theosophist spoonfeeds them indology
You can but all I am seeing is a dishonestly hostile reading of him which is typical of a certain sort of critic
Nietzsche is hardly a humanist. Humanism is just godless Christianity. All the slavishness none of the soteriology. Consider reading the material and engaging with it instead of giving us your testimony of how much you believe in God's grace and that because of that Nietzsche must be wrong about x y z

No it isn't. There is nothing that indicates Socrates hated life or anything. It's more of an ironic statemrnt of piety since he's being accused of impiety

I guess my take is just better then. After all, Nietzsche never gave any reasoning for his beliefs.