Starting my Pynchon (muh balls) journey with Vineland

starting my Pynchon (muh balls) journey with Vineland
Good idea? Should I have gone with Lot 49?

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Vineland sucks. I dropped it during the long boring female ninja section

i slogged through that shit, the only part i still sort of like was the college protestor part with weed atman, but even then not really, though. mercifully, i forgot most of it. also, for some reason the book reeked some weird chemical shit like vinegar.

Ive seen some defend it here and i don’t get it. I was really into Pynchon when I was into postmodern literature when I first got into reading and picking Vineland up after his other books was jarring. I’ve outgrown my postmodern and Pynchon phase so I can only imagine how bad it would be if I tried to reread it

I would start with GR or V. but Vineland is certainly better than Lot49 and more representative of his work. People shit on Vineland but I have yet to see a single person who could voice why they dislike like it.

It’s a boring slog

I hated it. I dropped it quarter way through which is unusual for me, I usually stay to the bitter end but Vineland was just too annoying.

No it isn't

Yes it is.
Trips don’t lie

the main issue with it is that it generates a lot of different opinions even between people who enjoy his other works.
might get you off with the wrong foot with pynchon.
V. is a great work, a very fun read and a good introduction to his style.
COTL49 is not as good but it's very short, on the one side it's good to get a quick preview of his style, on the other side you don't get the full pynchon experience, but as an introduction it's good.

read inherent vice first

These faggots are just parroting journalists from 1990 who didn’t like Vineland. I just got done reading it and can confirm it’s very good but it’s also unlike the other Pynchon books. When we say this basically we mean it’s not as academic and is filled with pop culture references that didn’t allow critics to write their college thesis around how deep Pynchon is. This is an emotionally complex work however, totally fun to read. If you want the classic Pynchon flavor though V is what you need.

Lot49 is a much better starting place than V. Imo, but if you're looking for a crash course then there's always slow learner

If you don’t see why people don’t like it, including Pynchon fans, you’re detached from reality and just trying to be a contrarian

V. is the better choice. Vineland is also cool but some people don't like it and is not representative of the best Pynchon.

yeah, Vineland is one of my favorites from Pinecone.

Reading inherent vice rn, and I gotta say, the more Pynchon I read the more I become convinced M&D is his only book worth reading with GR being a big tossup/matter of personal taste; his other shit just screams out of touch grandpa trying to wax romantic about being a hippie. It’s gay shit.
That said M&D is an anbelievably phenomenal book, I have read it four times and I will ve reading it many more. Maybe start and end there?

Have you read Against the Day or V?

never got far in V, but I got 1/3rd through ATD before I got bored and dropped.

ATD is way too uneven

lol GR is the reason he's lauded make no mistake

yo that’s crazy cause like I don’t remember asking and I don’t give a fuck?

I, too, only base my opinions around around what critics say

Inherent Vice, my dude

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But the critics also heavily praised M&D.

And I love M&D. GR was intense but pales in comparison. I would never reread it

filtered

Great book

>Trips don’t lie
Apparently they do.
The only "good" thing about Lot49 is that it is easy, other than that it has few redeeming qualities. While it gives an easy in to some of the themes which Pynchon likes to explore it does it poorly and has nothing else in common stylistically. For an easy to read introduction IV is better as it is a much better introduction to what Pynchon is about, both stylistically and thematically but for decades most everyone started out with either V or GR and had no issues and V or GR really are better introductions since they also show the complexity which is a hallmark of his work.
>translation: I only liked parts of it
It is quite even from the objective (technical) standpoint. Actually offer something which can be discussed or don't reply, your purely subjective and anonymous opinion is useless, explain why or fuck off.

Typical post. Elaborate why you enjoyed it without sounding like you’re parroting a critic. Personal taste exists, but yours is poor

Start with V.

Reading some for the posts here is so fucking cringe. You guys only enjoy early Pynchon because it’s “difficult” but yet you probably use online analysis or YouTubers to help you read the book. You probably will never read Proust, but Pynchon is just hip enough for you to make it your gay Reddit identity. Absolutely homo.

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based projecting retard

Typical post. Elaborate on why you disliked it without sounding like you're parroting a critic. Expecting an effort post in response to your zero effort post is ridiculous and strongly suggests you are just trolling.

Vineland rocks but you should start with V

should start with Inherent Vice if you want an easy Pynchon, otherwise just read his best GR and M&D

probably the worst stuff he ever wrote, what the hell was he thinking?

>but I have yet to see a single person who could voice why they dislike like it.

see
The beginning and end are good, but the middle section is really just reddit.

>see
Yea Forums truly is retarded.

It's capeshit, but written by a good author. What's not to like?

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Slapstick comedy sucks. Combine that with a deliberately obscure plot, and it becomes unreadable. Entropy, Poisson distribution, etc are all topics that make soulless literature. Some people just say they like it to appear smart

Pychon's humor is more than slapstick also the plot's straightforward as fuck, the only reason Pynchon is so challenging is because he does his research and knows a lot of words lmao filtered!

>obscure plot
lol. You mean like the hero's third cousin's best friend from highschool journey or the πr^2 act play? Might want to work on those language skills.
>you know what I means!
Sure, did. Also know that you are language deficient.

If the plot is simple then explain it to a layman. There are infinite digressions, as there are in every Pynchon book. What about themes, characters and plot did you like? M&D is better in every way. GR benefited by being released right after the counterculture 60’s. That shit would flop today

Dude, if anything Pynchie bends over backward sucking your dick to make sure you understand what he's getting at

Since I’m not as smart as you, explain it to me then. It’s soulless STEM literature

>as there are in every Pynchon book
His plots are literally point A to point B with the digression primarily adding information to support theme. There are no "plot digressions" in his work, plot does not digress, just the narrator.

It’s whole legacy is that it’s challenging. I don’t know what else to say. Pynchon obfuscates it. I bet can find a million reviews backing me. If you can’t acknowledge that, then this argument is in bad faith

His works are not difficult because plot is obscured but because theme is not direct and plot is used in a mostly to carry the novel forward, not too support theme, it is the characters actions and reactions too plot elements which support theme. Plot in his works just gives a glimpse of theme but no where near enough to get theme. He also has a strong tendency towards exposition at the end of his novels to help the reader but he does not give away the goat, just shows you where the goat is.
>I bet can find a million reviews backing me.
All that really proves is that there are a whole lot of plotfags in the world, which everyone already knows. I never said his works were easy, I said plot in his works is simple, and it is. Pretty sure you are the one arguing in bad faith.

Time for work, but I am sure someone else will play with you.

why should things be easy to understand?

What's challenging about pynchon is his epic scale and perspicacity, but the plot and themes itself is fairly straightforward satire

do u ever get pynchon pictures some of his novels as cartoons? like inherent vice really gives off vibes of scooby doo but directed by ralph bakshi, know what i mean? do u think after pynchon croaks his son will authorize a mason and dixon anime with bakshi as creative consultant?

This is what I love/hate about Pynchon. His works are wildly uneven, hit-or-miss, but with the same “Pynchon”-ness in all of them. At his best, the “Pynchon”-ness manifests as Borgesian, Byzantine, labyrinthine depictions of and investigations into history, politics, psychology, sociology, science and the history of science, occultism and the like, combined with a free appropriation of tropes from other genres of fiction (spy fiction, historical fiction, detective novels, sci-fi, etc. along with the conventions and experimental techniques introduced by the modernist and surrealist authors of the early 20th century, written in a fantastic style). You can forgive him for the whimsical, humorously-toned-but-not-laugh-out-loud-funny digressions, asides, and cartoon-like depictions of situations (as well as song lyrics) he feels compelled to insert into his best works like CL49, GR, or M&D because overall the genius still prevails. But then when you read something like Bleeding Edge, it’s like the whimsical zaniness and high-IQ references but without it being good. You can tell Pynchon wrote it, he’s still a great wordsmith and notches above the average writer just in how he writes on a sentence-by-sentence basis, but it’s not something you’d want to push yourself to read past a few dozen pages unless you’re a critic forced to write a review of it or just have low standards for what novels you’re willing to put yourself through since “a great like Pynchon wrote it”.

Me but with Bleeding Edge, hence why I’m not even inclined to try out Pynchon at his more uneven with works like Vineland, which I presume will be a similar reading experience.

>You can forgive him for the whimsical, humorously-toned-but-not-laugh-out-loud-funny digressions, asides, and cartoon-like depictions of situations (as well as song lyrics) he feels compelled to insert into his best works like CL49, GR, or M&D

Why does this need to be forgiven?

Maybe that’s a cynical way of putting it, you’re right. In fact, what would Pynchon be without these excursions? They can be entertaining to read, but also at times...

>Mason, reading the Italian satirist Tommaso Pincio’s “Newton’s Arc” to pass the Time on St. Helena and give himself an Excuse to escape these horridly uncomfort’ble Interchanges with Maskelyne, finds himself in the Midst of just as uncomfort’ble private Exchanges with the apparently just as derang’d author, Tommaso Pincio — who seems at Times (“Ahhhrrhh!” Mason groans, striking his Forehead) as if he were being, yes, DELIBERATELY UNFUNNY (“As if,” Mason mutters to himself, “I were SUPPOS’D to be laughing at this, but the author, having experimented too much with Hasheesh on his travels to India, has become, as ‘twere, PERMANENTLY DERANG’D...”)
>Maskelyne, running into the Room with his Penis in his Hand, suddenly shoots Globules of thick stringy Semen onto Mason’s Phiz as he sits there reading the Book. “I guess the Arc described by my Penis and its Excretions in Midair, was Gravity’s Rainbow the whole Time, ehhhhhh, Mason?” Maskelyne ejaculates.

Guess...
That’s...
Just! What! It’s! Like!
Reading a Thomas Pyn-chon No-vellll!
Isn’t this punning description of two lesbians drowning in a dike
Just — a — marvel!
Descriptions of homosexual BDSM got me wanting to mas—tur—bate!
Isn’t reading Tommy Pynchon — just — so — great!
Autoerotic asphyxiation
And aquatic suffocation ...
All great fuel for my mas—tur—bation!
[Etc.]

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lmao i had to google that quote just to check

Proust is easier to read though.

>SEX BAD

lol fuck off

Is Lot 49 any good? That's the only one I currently own

yes, but it's just a draft of GR

It's his worst novel, even worse than Bleeding Edge.

It's a draft of Inherent Vice, it has little similarity to GR.

>the pynchon is le hard meme
If you are not retarded, Pynchon is an easy read with the exception of, maybe, GR. Even then, you'll get the gist of what's going on.

Following all the characters and little idiosyncrasies in Le Côté de Guermantes is more difficult imo. Still, Proust is a weird comparison for Pynchon. They both start with 'P' I guess