Christianity actually makes sense after reading Meditations on the Tarot...

How is that true of Orthodoxy and not Catholicism? Could not the Catholic mystics make the exact same claim?

>They're the same thing in Orthodoxy - there has never been a divide,
There has. Arguably there still is or are you going to deny the experiences etc. Of hesychasts, or the the passages in symeon the new theologian, where they explicitly refer to Initiates(μύσται).
Spiritual communism where it's all equal, is an active denial of the purification, or the spiritual ladder, or degrees of initiation referred to in the pic here and in the "ladder of divine graces" linked to in the article below
Which are also present in "neoplatonic" writings,
Here is an interesting article aswell
themathesontrust.org/library/yoga-of-hesychasm
>An article on the short mystical poem “The Ladder of Divine Graces” by Theophanis the Monk. [James Cutsinger]

Yes, the core of Christianity is that faith in Christ saves. The esoteric strand of Christianity is interesting but it absolutely must not lead to any sense of pride or vanity about having secret knowledge, or worse, the belief that secret knowledge is necessary for salvation (gnosticism). The hermetic is always a servant, never a master.

Only Knowledge destroys Ignorance, if you want to say that knowing Jesus Christ Saves is enough fine, but if it was merely a matter of acknowledgement why did you have Paul teaching, and the apostles teaching, apostolic succession, church hierarchy, and so on.
If a person has totally false ideas of "Jesus saves" and starts murdering people thinking "Jesus saves" that is because he is lacking Knowledge about what that exactly entails, wouldn't you say?

Initiation is retarded and overrated. Guenon was initiated by all these kooks who didn't know what they were talking about. No, a secret handshake or pegging up the ass does not confer some spiritual magic on to you. Stop smoking opium.

What if the secret knowledge is exactly what will destroy ignorance, pride, vanity... etc. Even acknowledging and Knowing that the hermetic is always a servant, means you have through gnosis "determined" this.

>No, a secret handshake or pegging up the ass does not confer some spiritual magic on to you.
Maybe it could have some influence on you if you let it, all initiation is ultimately "self-initiation" at some point, which is non-different from what you're advocating
>smoking opium / entheogens
There is nothing wrong with it

He is not correct its just semantics, in the same way orthodox saints as I referred to even use the word "initiate" but all of a sudden they don't, it's not true

Read this vedavyasamandala.com/en/initiation-and-method-of-hesychasm/

It rarely is. Knowledge can be like wealth, a source of pride and attachment to the material. The beauty of Christianity is that an old lady who prays the rosary daily is more Holy than a scholar who has read 1000 books on theology.

Rely on the wisdom of God.

justacatholic.medium.com/observations-on-the-influence-of-the-occult-in-traditional-catholic-discourse-2d798e5ba51c

I don't have many thoughts - seems straightforward and normal to me, for a high-ranking educated official with to write those things. I'll elaborate in response to the next user and his assertion that I'm denying a spiritual difference between initiates and non-initiates.

>There has. Arguably there still is or are you going to deny the experiences etc. Of hesychasts, or the the passages in symeon the new theologian, where they explicitly refer to Initiates(μύσται).
>Spiritual communism where it's all equal, is an active denial of the purification, or the spiritual ladder, or degrees of initiation referred to in the pic here and in the "ladder of divine graces" linked to in the article below

In the first initiation of Baptism, Chrismation, and your first Holy Communion, have been regenerated to the degree that your will co-operates with baptism, become annointed as a living temple of the Holy Spirit, and have been joined ontologically to the body of Christ. This is undeniably a universal initiation into the life of Christ, and that is the limit of my alleged "Spiritual communism".

Being initiated into further depths of the life in Christ, is a matter of your mentioned ascetic purification that then actualises the potential received in baptism, which St Maximus the Confessor talks about in the ambigua. The further "initiates" are those who have touched that stage of deeper spiritual life, of consummating their full repentence from the fallen nature, and is at the stage where particular Holy Elders acquire gifts such as clairvoyance.

As a side note, have you read Fr. Seraphim Rose's biography, "Not of this World"? He talks about experiences in both aspects - both of a sense of spiritual peace lingering for weeks after his first holy communion, and for receiving what he felt like a little flame in his heart at his monastic tonsure, which his fellow monastic partner Fr. Herman also confirmed feeling.

Interesting but I believe Tomberg was more authentically Catholic than the blog author is. Also Angelico Press is probably the finest publishing house for Catholics operating today, next to Emmaus Press.I have little time for wowsers who try to argue that the Church at the time of the counter reformation is the only valid form of the faith

>I have little time for wowsers who try to argue that the Church at the time of the counter reformation is the only valid form of the faith
So you know nothing about catholicism and doctrinal infaillibility

The author of OP's book explicitly makes the case that the esoteric dimension of Christianity is Hermeticism, and he is saying that as a Hermetic Roman Catholic. From his perspective, this necessarily implies that the Roman Catholic spirituality is different to the Orthodox spirituality, since Hermeticism and other beliefs like that have been anathematised in Orthodoxy.

My understanding, however, is different - my understanding is that Hermetic occultism came in to popularity in the RC Church after it had abandoned the Holy Spirit in the great schism of 1054. Prior to that, the Western side of the pre-schism Church had identical spirituality to the Eastern side, which unfortunately only the East retained after the Great Schism.

Here is an article that goes into a comparison between the sanctity of the recent Russian St Seraphim of Sarov, and Francis of Assissi. orthochristian.com/90893.html

Doctrinal infallibility doesn't start and end with the baroque church.

Okay?... But it means that the Church cannot go back on its counter-reform
or the Council of Trent
or all the doctrinal condemnations that Tomberg's doctrine falls under

Orthodox hesychasm is basically Yoga. The Orthodox insistence that they represent pure Christianity unmarred by sources like hermeticism is laughable.

Thanks for the reply thoughts on this site here?
>The Mystical interpretation is to negate the genuinely initiatic nature of Hesychasm, the existence of a master-to-disciple transmission, and consequently the existence of a method based on acquired notions that must be put into practice by following rigorously the injunctions of the master6. Indeed, Saint Gregory Palamas, the highest theologian of Hesychasm, affirmed in consonance with Saint Gregory of Nyssa7 that the chain of masters went back to Moses:

>The doctrines, today commonly known and recognized by all and publicly preached, existed as mysteries8 of the law given by Moses.9

>Orthodox Hesychasm is basically Yoga
And that is testament to the traditions incorruption, and purity, however I think it is less "yogic" than would be preferable, so it is still a degeneration of some kind.

Nothing Tomberg taught was incompatible with Vatican II

Even though I've heard that, in caves on Mt. Athos they have extreme ascetics who live off eating herbs and plants off the ground, and are sustained directly by the uncreated energies, who knows of the reality though, pretty unverifiable.

>the great schism of 1054
The "great schism of 1054" is a myth. If you really believe the Church abandoned the Holy Spirit you are being dishonest and a bad historicist to say the least.

>The only valid expression of the Christian faith is that which perfectly conforms to how it was practiced at the time of the Council of Trent
Sure sign of a tradlarper. If you quote Pope Pius X more than Maximus the Confessor you're in no position to lecture anyone else.

Doesn't he believe in reincarnation? Yikes.

>Since the chin resting on the chest oppresses the larynx, the inhaled air overheats and ignites a heat source in the chest. This fire, which is not the ordinary one of digestion, has the capacity to burn the imperfections due to original sin.

Holy... Based.. there's no way this article is real, any orthodox here can crosscheck? Or have any views on it?

Contact.

>It is as if the breathing of the Hesychast reproduces in a reverse sense the creative activity of God. By exhaling, God creates the world, by inhaling he reabsorbs it and dissolves it. Similarly, but inversely, while breathing in, the Hesychast takes the Lord into himself, whereas, while exhaling, he expels the individual limitations. The moment of union (sskrt. samādhi) between divine and human occurs in the pause between the inhalation and expulsion of the air27. To make this experience more effective and prolonged, the initiate must tighten the throat even more, pressing his “beard” on the chest. This technique is very similar to that used in Yoga, known as jālandhara bhandha, which consists in the occlusion of the network of subtle channels (nāḍī), in particular the two main ones, iḍā and piṅgalā, thus temporarily arresting the motor agitation of the body.

Contracting the throat and pressing the chin firmly against the chest: this binding [bhandha], called jālandhara, removes senility and death [leads to immortality].

When the jālandhara bhandha is stabilized, characterized by the occlusion of the larynx, the drink of immortality28 no longer falls into the fire and the element of air is no longer agitated.

With the contraction of the throat it is possible to immobilize energetically the two nāḍīs.29

Typical Catholics....
>Today, this initiatory path of the Orthodox Church does emerge unscathed from criticism and falsifications. The Catholic Church, which beginning with the reform of Latin Catholicism had already begun to lose its initiatory priestly ways transmitted through the Benedictine monastic order38, as early as the 11th century considered Hesychasm a “pagan” heritage. No one knows on what grounds this assumption is actually based. Without hesitation, however, she welcomed with visible relief the calumnies promoted by Barlaam of Calabria, maintaining to this day an attitude of contempt. However, a fascinating pamphlet, appeared in Russia in 1881 and soon translated into various Western European languages with the title “The Tales of a Russian Pilgrim”39, began to have a favourable diffusion, particularly among Catholic lay people. The book then became fashionable after the catastrophic conclusion of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, on the wave of the uncritical ecumenism promoted by the new Catholic church. The ‘68 rebellion and the worldwide explosion of New Age have consecrated this short text as a must of globalist culture, completely distorting its meaning. The Jesuit priest Gian Vittorio Cappelletto, following these unconscious impulses and realizing the absence of esotericism in the Catholic church, decided to set right this deficiency by bringing in the Hesychasm with the silent complicity of the Vatican. However, instead of reaching out to Orthodox circles to receive the regular transmission of the initiation, indulging in the syncretism of the “interreligious dialogue”, he accepted the hasty opinion that Hesychasm was a method of Indian Tantric origin. In 1977 Cappelleto became a disciple of the deviated neo-hindū current known as Ānanda mārga. After this experience, he founded the community of “Ricostruttori di Preghiera” (prayer reconstructors), self-proclaimed “Catholic Hesychasts” who pronounce mantras of Tantrism and perform pseudo hindū rituals, to the great satisfaction of the pontifical hierarchies.

>Christianity makes sense if you change it at it's core

Cont.
>>Leaving aside these grotesque attempts, which clearly damage both the authentic Hindū and Orthodox traditions and that can be attributed only to the cadaverous spasms of the Catholic Church, we will conclude with the following observation. The lack of interest or even the “conspiracy of silence” surrounding Hesychasm from professed traditional circles appears highly suspicious. In fact, Orthodox Hesychasm represents the most natural, nearest and least traumatic solution for those esoterists born in the Catholic world who seek an authentic initiatory connection40. In this case there would not be the obstacle of assuming habits, customs and mentalities that are secularly different and often in contrast with one’s own roots, which characterizes the conversion to another religion; nor, much

>change it
What do you even mean? All religions have different points of views, different paths, accommodated for different peoples with different dispositions.

Cope.

Contradicting and making new shit up, then claiming it retroactively justifies something it has no relation to is, I would say "changing it". The new stuff is hardly a perspective on the old, it is entirely it's own thing trying to patch up the fact that the 2000 year old book has thought limited to what was known 2000 years ago in a small area. At that point I don't see why you would keep LARPing as a Christian on Yea Forums, just admit you're an occultist who likes the Abrahamic aesthetic.

Valentinianism is the true form of Christianity and always has been

>LARP
>aesthetic
>valentianism
o no

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>Contradicting and making new shit up, then claiming it retroactively justifies something it has no relation to is, I would say "changing it".
Summarising all religion there unless you're being selective, based on what history?
So you should be anti-religion... oh wait you're probably a Anti-Abrahamist larper who is will praise Buddhism and Hinduism in a heartbeat unless I'm mistaken. If you're a genuinely curious person, without dishonesty I don't see why you shouldn't also be interested in Christianity or Islam, all religion from my point of view are valid paths, the Christian tradition in this case the Hesychasm, is something which has been practices for minimum 1000 years, and claims to go back to Moses, and they did support all of this with scripture

>
A heart that has been completely emptied of mental images gives birth to divine, mysterious intellections that sport within it like fish and dolphins in a calm sea. The sea is fanned by a soft wind, the heart’s depth by the Holy Spirit. And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying: “Abba, Father” (Saint Paul, Epistle to the Galatians, IV.6).24

How can a heart be emptied of mental images? In only makes sense with orthodox nous hermeneutics etc. There are many passages which point to theosis, anything can be read in or extrapolated from the text.

Why would it be abour aesthetic?

>oh wait you're probably a Anti-Abrahamist larper who is will praise Buddhism and Hinduism in a heartbeat unless I'm mistaken
many such cases. They have probably never read a single gospel

>Orthodox Hesychasm represents the most natural, nearest and least traumatic solution for those esoterists born in the Catholic world
keep dreaming bayraktar bait

I should restate,
*It can be explained sufficiently from the point of view of Orthodox interpretation not Only.

You can read the Gospels (and the Tanakh they rely on), and disagree with them. Porphyry and Julian Augustus for instance, or Nietzsche

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It is you again... You hate christianity so much you have to enter every single thread about it. You are eternally resentful

>all religion from my point of view are valid paths
This stems from the idea that all religions are paths to truths, when none of them have even shown anything supernatural beyond what we know the body can biologically do. If there is a truth, the entire human approach has so far been wrong.
>Why would it be about aesthetic?
Because you most likely care about what feelings and sensations Christianity poses, not some search for understanding that is fundamentally contradicted by the expectations of the religion itself. You don't get anything special for being more insightful on the unnecessary metaphysics of Christianity, which have no verifiable effect or path besides how they make you feel, you do it to show your devotion to the attention need of YHWH who you can truly never understand.
There's also another question, if your soul is safe with Christ in a case where Christianity is true (inb4 larper replies with "its true") then why not spend your time better proving the presumptions you have about Christianity but cannot rationally nor even esoterically infer, besides through trust? Christianity has no monopoly on any occult or esoteric traditions or any philosophy, it just took them. It isn't the first monotheism either, the only thing it was the first in was focusing around Christ, all arguments positive of that are unnecessary, all negative are stated to "fail to understand God cannot be understood by mortals". It's a black hole on the philosophical development of mankind.

The problem is not that you can differ in opinion, it's the one-sidedly deconstructive approach, what textual tradition are you deriving your criticism from, if you're the user from before, if your issue is that Christian traditions "pilpul" the text, what text are you "pilpulling" the point is
>muh "pilpul"
Is not an argument, as I said, I think all religions with esoteric traditions are legitimate, Historical criticism is not a tradition, and is by its very nature Exclusive more so then what I am saying, because it attempts to deconstruct and delegitamise all religion.
Also the "Monotheism" vs. "Polytheism" is hardly even sound metaphysically speaking.
Unless you want to literally claim Multiplicity or Plurality in the Brahman, Monotheism is what all the legitimate religions are about, true "polytheism" is a total degeneration.

Christianity never left alone what it opposed. There is never a single thread about non-Christian religion or philosophy here that does not contain unsolicited preaching and denunciations from the volcano worshipers

>Monotheism is what all the legitimate religions are about
Monotheism in Christianity and Zoroastrianism is autistic obsession over the notion of first/root cause, completely meaningless without it, but completely meaningless if your philosophy does not require this linear line of reasoning. Jewish monotheism originally just oriented itself around denying other Gods while making their one God the best to create a more fierce ethno religious identity around the time.

Different user, but it is true that Christianity relies upon believing another religion is mostly true in order to make its case that it alone is entirely true. You cannot be a Christian "esotericist." Jesus makes it very plain what is needed of you to join his movement

It is a proselytizing religion. So what? Are you gonna keep whining? Buddhism is also a proselytizing religion.

What you do is different from proselytism, however. You act AGAINST it for your own personal reasons, not due to your own religion. What is your excuse?

> are valid paths
This stems from the idea that all religions are paths to truths, when none of them have even shown anything supernatural beyond what we know the body can biologically do. If there is a truth, the entire human approach has so far been wrong.
Many many words but as soon as I read that there, I stopped reading, I don't have time to debate scientistic materialists — pseuds.
All people who take religion seriously know that it is supra-rational, beyond this sort of material verification, beyond being, Transcendent.
>Muh Christianity
Why do you pretend to have a bias against Christianity only here, your enemy is all religions! Maybe you are unfamiliar with anything other than Christianity.

>please don't oppose me
no

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>Christianity relies upon believing another religion is mostly true in order to make its case that it alone is entirely true
No it's all beyond these logical dialectics "true" and "false"
And no "Christianity" is not contingent on any Other "religion," in fact this sort of objectification of incorporeal ideas, theologies, philosophies, and the "contingencies" you're creating between them is entirely illusory. I'll talk about Orthodoxy here because that's what I'm familiar with

Christianity by its very nature is a Mystery cult amongst mystery cults, a Pagan religion amongst pagan religions, its only retards who have their heads in secular history, and these illusory and artifical distinctions, who get so confused.

Christianity is hellenized Judaism change my mind "Orthodox" Christian

Christianity has doctrinal reasons to confront other religions. I am asking what are the reasons behind your confrontation of christianity? It is nothing but resentment. I have seen multiple posts by you in the archives it is always the same thing: 100% prejudice against christianity, complete ignorance of it, while showing some sympathy for some vague buddhism etc

It's a Judaean version of Dionysus I'll give you that. But the wine has been watered down, you are all saved as long as you pray to the master who will tear down the strong and elevate the weak and invert all relationships of men on earth

I think it's dumb. If you were instead arguing that the sky were lime green I would be against that too

>offended by what he reads
>misinterprets it and says something stupid on top
If any religious system so far was right they would have some kind of supernatural proof of it. That doesn't mean I think materialism is right either.
>why Christianity
They spread the most retarded ideas on the internet and plague it with ignorance, as posited by (You). And Christians, primarily reproduce by appealing to tradLARPers or indoctrinating Children. I don't exclude other Abrahamist religions but I've never seen Muslims or Jews argue as autistically as Christians did on an absurd (Jesus' and reality's nature and entwining them) nor gaslight as much.

No idea is new, nothing is new, Truth Iis immutable it doesn't change, all things throughout eternity follow the same pattern, it is not divided into parts and these parts are not all contingent on eachother, rather the truth or "gateway to truth" is merely particularised in one or the other religions, the individual is always throughout his life a participator in a supra-particular domain of Universals, even if he is simply "individualising" them, the religions are just preserving vehicles of the most ancient timeless doors.

That's all I'll say about it.

>I think it's dumb
Yes. And have you ever read a single gospel? I once asked you what was your favorite christian text and you answered "LOTR". I cannot believe someone who has read the gospels and other christian texts would mention "LOTR".

You have never tried to understand it sincerely. NGMI.

>You have never tried to understand it sincerely
What of your performative cargo cult version of it? Is that sincere, to revivify a corpse of a religion whose essence is the belief that corpses come back to life with a little Disney magic? I like the episode in Acts about Ananias and Saphira because you all give me a bullshit answer that "God did it" as a cover-up of cult violence

The only good thing Communists ever did was not humoring Christians in pretending they're right. I'm glad separation of Church and state was all that was needed for that to happen in the west too.

If God real why only show up to several sunburnt Jews before
>hes unexplainable
If that's your standard then why not pick a better religion that's also unexplainable? At least convert to Judaism and worship whom the covenant actually is for according to Jesus himself (ie not goy).

Here refer here
Judaism is just a surface level distinction, Truth cannot be diminished by Names or Conditions, in the way you ascribe them, in fact it is primarily experiential, and the Religous point of view is the gateway to primordial truths, through symbol, ritual, rite, rubric, etc. Communing in the eternal divinity, before christ after christ, the pre-incarnational logos - the soul of man itself which is God, and in God, we are right now IN God, and as a macrocosm the incarnation purified the microcosm, in theory this opens of the path to realising the ontological identity of the Absolute.

Fuck off, Jesuit user.

What I find intriguing is that you also asked me:
>Do you even understand Buddhism? Did you even bother to try? At least try.

Which means you do not apply your own criteria.

>is the belief that corpses come back to life
Yes. There are also claims about resurrection in hinduism and buddhism. But you will not dismiss those religions because of it, will you?

>say something retarded
>"That's all I'll say"
classic.
If truth was immutable, it would be easily reachable because you wouldn't need to do anything to reach it, just a mention of it would be a revelation. The truth, very clearly, isn't immutable and is instead increasingly less specific the more complexity you can afford. The only fundamental truth that is immutable is that things can and will change. No man steps in the same river twice. Reality has simply accustomed to making more stable worlds of change that are easily comprehensive, whether for our brains or our souls, to give illusions of immutability so we can more easily analyze it.