I already have the Tao te Ching and have read it many times over the years (obviously not a feat, since it’s so short lmao). I want to know where I got from here, but every English-speaking “Taoist” online typically says “do whatever you want, maaaan” — they don’t even know which translations are best.
Anyway, where should I go now? Zhuangzi? Is the alchemy worthwhile? Would bridging over into Chan/Zen Buddhism be a naturally step; if so, what should I read to start?
Learn the language dude. That's probably what Lao Tzu would tell u to do.
Eventually, with any of the asian-centered schools of thought, it's the only thing you CAN do to continue on your path
Everything else would just be taking the words of random strangers for gospel.
>道可道非常道
me want book!
Awesome, I might just do that. I flipped through that Alan Watts book on Taoism and I was surprised that it looked like he spends a ton of time just talking about the language/calligraphy, but I guess that makes a lot of sense (even though Watts isn’t the best, AFAIK)
There is yet to be a quintessential translation of the Tao te Ching, so maybe I’ll try my hand at that lol. Having some outlet should make the language-learning all the more efficient.
And I agree with the Asian-centered thing. In studying Buddhism, I realized you need to learn the key terms and their meaning in their original language right away, otherwise you’ll always be getting an inauthentic understanding.
good advice
Back when I was a discerning Christian I learned basic Greek so that I could read the New Testament clearly. But, unexpectedly, doing so “lifted a veil” and I stopped being Christian lol
This.
Lao Zoo the noneffort guy would be all like: bro you gotta get the flashcards out.
>“lifted a veil” and I stopped being Christian
What???
I don't think you're talking about a mystical experience, are you?
Tell me more.
I’ve had plenty of mystical experiences, but that “lifting the veil” was more like seeing the old man behind the curtain - the whole thing is made-up.
good for you, you were blessed bro
>the whole thing is made-up
Explain yourself!
I have plans of doing something similar in the future. What caused your "disenchantment"?
Be more expecifical.
I will tomorrow if this thread is still up. Too tired to give you a thorough answer.
you don't have an answer kek
I've experienced the same thing. It's infinitely beyond words to give an explanation. You can understand with meditation and contemplation but... it's your experience so you have to find out for yourself - the whole thing is made up by you (not "you" your ego but YOU! WAKEY WAKEY)
Anons need to have mystical experiences gained after years of studying Ancient Greek in order to learn what Redditors know intuitively
>道可道非常道
ㄉㄠˋㄎㄝˇㄉㄠˋㄈㄟ·ㄔㄤˊㄉㄠˋ
>the way can the way can't [be] long way
what does this sentence even mean?
I myself have only read Tao Te Ching once but I wanna get more in depth with Taoism (am not a Taoist really), what next? Read again? Recommendations for translations? Any other books?
He's memeing, user.
>yeah after reading the bible in greek i'm not christian anymore
Please, why do you reply to obvious baits like this?
You cannot just learn Chinese... It will take many many many years before you can read a book. Like a decade of every day learning.
Read Taoism The Enduring Tradition by Russell Kirkland
It's an extremely acerbic rant about Taoism, what the evidence of Taoism actually says and dismantles all the lies that have been allowed to spread for centuries
It will give you some good ideas about Taoist practice and the kind of texts which were actually important for Taoists
>what the evidence of Taoism actually says and dismantles all the lies that have been allowed to spread for centuries
Well, what does Taoism actually say?
Get the D.C. Lau translation (Penguin)
Zhuangzhi is your study guide
Taoism has nothing to do with Buddhism
The way to "be" a Taoist is simply to open your eyes. If your mouth is running you're probably doing it wrong. If you're doing lots of studying you're definitely doing it wrong. If you haven't let go of most of the stupid shit in your head you're definitely doing it wrong.
Embrace the un-carved block by completing your first lesson of not making this thread every other day.
He's going to be a good Taoist and not bother answering
>The way to "be" a Taoist is simply to open your eyes. If your mouth is running you're probably doing it wrong. If you're doing lots of studying you're definitely doing it wrong. If you haven't let go of most of the stupid shit in your head you're definitely doing it wrong.
chinese "philosophy" kek
>expecifical
was this a real word?
also, while every religion guesses at the "truth" of metaphysics, not every religion tries to dogmatically reassure their congregation that they know the truth beyond a shadow of a doubt like an overly egotistical parent pretending to their kids that they know everything and are the masters and always know better than the kid.
>I am your mother and it is that way because I told you it is so. I brought you into this world and I can take you out.
Eastern religions like Buddhism is closer to the attitude of Socrates (where you are encouraged to have genuine dialogue with your teachers and leaders and "find your own path" because "lol iunno, what worked for me can't necessarily work for you") than Christianity, which carried more cultural influence from Aristotle.
but not every Eastern religion is like Buddhism. Confucianism is trash for roughly the same reason Christianity is.
Taking a look around me I see the results of your western "philosophy". I'd kek if I weren't so busy crying
>inb4 "well china isn't doing any better"
tell me about it
>confucianism is trash for exactly the same reason communism is
FIFY
Why are you talking to me? You should shut your mouth and observe, that's your philosophy bro lol
To tell you how stupid you are
It's one of the allowable exceptions
does that mean you cannot be taoist if you talk about taoism? were all taoists in the history were fakes?
No, the guys writing were fine, the guys talking were the problem.
You're arguing on Yea Forums calling other people stupid, you sure you're not doing it wrong with your philosophy? lol
Sorry by that I meant what the historical evidence says about the formation, practice and character of Taoism and not what Confucianists and Taoists have to say about Taoism
If you want to know about that then you should read the book
I don't think Taoism has anything to say when you put it that way
Any and every Taoist in history was simply trying to pin down what he could of the universal to the extent that information could be of benefit. The original audience for the thought in the first place were warring states rulers who were suffering the consequences of legalist confucian stupid shit. Poeople were dying (like today) and people were suffering (like today) and as a MORAL PHILOSOPHY Taoism suggested an alternative.
You are a wretched faggot of the first degree
Also a wretched faggot, the same one i'm sure
Meds
>makes taoist troll post daily
>taoist responds by calling him out
>says "meds"
You got me! See you tomorrow.
inb4 why take the bait
because I'm sure some people are genuinely interested in the topic
>>makes taoist troll post daily
Unironically doubling down on the reason for meds, you got mad over a joke from someone who doesn't have any strong opinions on the subject and are projecting a persecution complex. Literally my first Dao thread on Yea Forums too btw
>Literally my first Dao thread on Yea Forums too btw
I don't believe you
You don't have to, but relying on belief on things you can realistically never verify is unwise.
You're continued argument shows how little you care about the subject of your own thread.
I still have half a cup of coffee I can call you a faggot for a little longer if you like
>of your own thread.
? I'm not OP.
There is a meme chart on this which may or may not be a meme
looks pretty memee
See Hans-Georg Moeller, German Daoist philosophy professor working out of Macau:
youtube.com
youtube.com
Has a philosophical rigour where it's otherwise easy to get lost in Asian mystification and hippy dross or cartoon book martial arts types.
Another of his Daoist books.
>genuine pretending
Is that a book on Yea Forums?
It's on social media profilicity, works a bit differently when the 'profile' is user and can be formed and discarded from post to post, thread to thread, but some of it will apply. Posts here are still crafted for second order observation, we still have feedback (you)s, etc.
youtube.com
(don’t forget the I Ching)
Read zhangzi, read liezi, read the secret of the golden flower, read “taoist immortal yoga” which is an alchemical text, read similar alchemical lit such as “understanding reality” and if you’re down to continue even deeper, study the taoist master chuang and then read jerry Alan Johnson on libgen, if you want to go any deeper you need to study the (mostly untranslated) daozang OR absorb the various related lit, always more alchemical lit, plenty of wisdom literature floats around, you have stuff like the neiye which is older than tao te Ching and influenced it considerably, etc.
Coming from the study/practice of (Western) alchemical Hermeticism, there are fruitful correspondences in Taoism. Introduction to Magic by Evola is a great starting if you have some prior knowledge of esotericism and are seeking a truly positive enlightenment. Taoism is mentioned in those works as well, but there are also Western masters who recommend Taoism as a tool too. If you are a white Westerner seeking enlightenment and attainment of divine powers, you might consider the Western Traditions first, and then study Taoism. If you are Asian and seek the same enlightenment, Taoism is definitely an excellent and authentic Tradition immediately at your disposal (assuming you speak Chinese). I think understanding the language should not be discounted.
Western initiatic wisdom understands the same spiritual Truth as the Chinese, you fool. The approach is different, but the understandings are essentially the same. The fact that many of the techniques overlap in practice is evidence of this. You shudra dog. Knowing it only as philosophy is a profanation. It is a living reality.
Do nothing, detached from all forms of desire, find the inner silence expressing truth in the eternal present. It is a living reality.
>Knowing it only as philosophy is a profanation. It is a living reality.
Yes, and do you know why?
t. fool/profane "shudra dog"
Christ the Eternal Tao
Release the pasta that makes them seethe!
>What is wisdom but the appreciation of the Truth?
>What is the Truth if not God?
>You don’t need sophomore coursework in “philosophy” to see and appreciate what is (and therefore what isn’t) existing all around you.
>What if a heathen observant intelligent Chinese person 300 years before Christ simply caught God’s coat tail? After all, He is all around us. Believe it, or not.
>Taoism isn’t a religion.
>Repent, and profess Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
lol, why do retards like to post about things they know nothing about
Go to Zhuangzi (ZIPORYN!!!) and Liezi (Wong is okay but she throws here commentary in without warning so read Cleary's translation found in Vol.3 of Taoist Classics or Vitality Energy Spirit), find a Huainanzi (a lot of Dao-oriented excerpts can be found in Cleary's The Book of Leadership & Strategy which can be found in Volume 1 of Taoist Classics by Thomas Cleary), Thomas Cleary also has a good sourcebook of various Daoists called Vitality Energy Spirit (which can be found in Volume 3 of Cleary's Taoist Classics. Fabrizio Pregadio and Cleary both have translations of The Secret of the Golden Flower and the Wuzhen Pian (Understanding/Awakening to Reality) with Liu Yimings commentary. (Cleary's Vol. 2 deals with achemical stuff.) (Livia Kohn (The Taoist Experience + Early Chinese Mysticism for other Daoist paths besides alchemy) and Louis Komjathy (The Daoist Tradition) have scholarly works (Komjathy also has a book on Quanzhen which is Daoism + Buddhism & Confucianism). Michael Saso (Daoist Master Zhuang) and Kristofer Schipper (The Daoist Body) have good stuff on Zhengyi. Basically get Cleary's Taoist Classics, some Pregadio works (he has a good anthology and other translations of alchemical stuff), also get Dan Reid's Thread of Dao which is the Neiye with the Guiguzi and Heshang Gong commentary excerpts, he also has the complete Heshang Gong commentary. Robert Coons has Internal Elixir Cultivation, he is cool. Read the Yijing as well and commentaries (Alfred Huang is cool and Cleary has Daoist Yijing studies in volume 4), Taoist Meditation by Cleary has some decent translations of meditation stuff but just remember to read multiple translations of stuff. Also read some Zen/Chan stuff (Zen Sourcebook, Classics of Zen and Buddhism by Cleary, etc.etc.) and Confucianism (Sishu (The 4 books - Mencius, Great Learning, Doctrine of the Mean, Analects )). Oh yeah and Eva Wong has some okay stuff more I'd recommend her story stuff more than the alchemy stuff though (7 Taoist Masters for example). Also, for Daodejing translation the best there is is Victor Mair. Also check out Caigentan/Vegetable Roots Discourse. Lastly Way of the World by Cleary has the Guanyinzi by Yin Xi the guard which is great. The Taishang Ganying Pian is a later work which you should read as well.
>There is yet to be a quintessential translation of the Tao te Ching, so maybe I’ll try my hand at that lol
deluded. the original is constantly ambiguous, so any translation is necessarily reductionist, unless it can create the exact same ambiguity, which is obviously rarely possible
it would be a interesting way to try to learn classical chinese (文言文, 古文 (hi warosu!)) though, if you want to look spend most of your time looking in a dictionary (get Kroll, essential)
better is to start with a primer, which has glosses. i recommend Rouzer, he's the easiest
住你好运 (and btw leave wade giles behind use pinyin if you're not an orientalist)
>japenese
guh!
a runny mouth and a runnier anus, this post