ITT writers who compensate their average artistic talent with pure hard work and knowledge

Because natural talent is necessary but not always sufficient for producing a great work. Hard work can only bring you so far, an innately talented person will produce better art without even trying. If you aren't born with innate talent you shouldn't even bother.

youre making up a dichotomy

bogus idealism

It's the truth. It's no different than in sports. The great are born as such. Sure, they need to do SOME amount of work to cultivate their innate talents, but a random person will NEVER be able to produce anything of artistic value no matter how hard they work at cultivating their craft because talent is INNATE.

genius or naturally talented people or whatever probably work 'smart' not 'hard'. there's different types of good art anyway as varied as there are manners or voices, not a single ideal standard that can only be accessed by the genius

>If you aren't born with innate talent you shouldn't even bother
user, I need to know your opinion on migration and programming socks.

>migration
Mostly against it
>programming socks
???

I saw part of one of his videos on youtube, and it feels like he just wants to explain, and not tell a story.

He likes to discuss, not write.

Take what I'm saying with a grain of salt though, I don't actually know what his writing is like.

A large amount of people are spiritually normies and will never make good art no matter how much they refine it. If youre an even slightly adventerous interesting person, and you put in work, youll make something good.

it depends on what the person values, their teaching, how they view the world and their experience of it, their ability to self-evaluate, ability to innovate, ability to analyse other works, resilience, etc. I don't know if this is what you mean by 'innate talent' or if you think some people are just able to channel some spirit world of art

>Take what I'm saying with a grain of salt though
that was already my plan but thanks

Because hard work is manual.

Talent, maybe implied in its nature, is effortless. Struggling or doing something actively is less elegant and graceful than doing it automatically and without thought.

>some people are just able to channel some spirit world of art
Basically yes.

there's technique in making things appear effortless but people with talent still put in the effort.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprezzatura

cont.

When we ingest something, we are more impressed by someone being confident and not making it a big deal. Like a cool person doing something cool, and being casual about it.

Now compare that image of this cool person with someone who sits down to deliberately create 'art' and has to put their mind to it or it won't happen and works towards it by making an effort.

While the latter is much more admirable, the former just oozes charisma.

TL;DR: effortlessly doing something > making big fuss about doing the same thing.

Effortless charisma > tryharding to get something done.

There's a reason actors are almost worshipped, while programmers are seen as nerds.

i suggest looking into art history to dispel some of these myths about the production of art. it's really less special than most people think

Thanks for hte link.

>an innately talented person will produce better art without even trying

No they won't, that's exactly the point the user you're responding to is saying you retard.

>actors are almost worshipped
>almost
There's no almost about it. No one ever committed sudoku over a programmer's death, although there are plenty of losers who do so when their favorite pop slut or serial Hollywood liar kicks the bucket.

>is writing style is poorer than GRRM or Stephen King
Wew. Can you guys post an excerpt? I can't imagine a professional writer being worse than GRMM.

How do you know you're good? Even talented artists tend to be quite insecure about their talent.

All this talk about talent, how do you even know how much of an outcome is due to talent? more importantly, even if you could measure talent; how would you do it for something as abstract as art?

“I’m going to die, aren’t I?” Cenn asked.

The weathered veteran beside Cenn turned and inspected him. The veteran wore a full beard, cut short. At the sides, the black hairs were starting to give way to grey.

I’m going to die, Cenn thought, clutching his spear—the shaft slick with sweat. I’m going to die. Oh, Stormfather. I’m going to die. . . .

“How old are you, son?” the veteran asked. Cenn didn’t remember the man’s name. It was hard to recall anything while watching that other army form lines across the rocky battlefield. That lining up seemed so civil. Neat, organized. Shortspears in the front ranks, longspears and javelins next, archers at the sides. The darkeyed spearmen wore equipment like Cenn’s: leather jerkin and knee-length skirt with a simple steel cap and a matching breastplate.

Many of the lighteyes had full suits of armor. They sat astride horses, their honor guards clustering around them with breastplates that gleamed burgundy and deep forest green. Were there Shardbearers among them? Brightlord Amaram wasn’t a Shardbearer. Were any of his men? What if Cenn had to fight one? Ordinary men didn’t kill Shardbearers. It had happened so infrequently that each occurrence was now legendary.

It’s really happening, he thought with mounting terror. This wasn’t a drill in the camp. This wasn’t training out in the fields, swinging sticks. This was real. Facing that fact—his heart pounding like a frightened animal in his chest, his legs unsteady—Cenn suddenly realized that he was a coward. He shouldn’t have left the herds! He should never have—

“Son?” the veteran said, voice firm. “How old are you?”

“Fifteen, sir.”

“And what’s your name?” “Cenn, sir.”

The mountainous, bearded man nodded. “I’m Dallet.”

“Dallet,” Cenn repeated, still staring out at the other army. There were so many of them! Thousands. “I’m going to die, aren’t I?”

“No.” Dallet had a gruff voice, but somehow that was comforting. “You’re going to be just fine. Keep your head on straight. Stay with the squad.”

“But I’ve barely had three months’ training!” He swore he could hear faint clangs from the enemy’s armor or shields. “I can barely hold this spear! Stormfather, I’m dead. I can’t—”

“Son,” Dallet interrupted, soft but firm. He raised a hand and placed it on Cenn’s shoulder. The rim of Dallet’s large round shield reflected the light from where it hung on his back. “You are going to be fine.”

“How can you know?” It came out as a plea.

“Because, lad. You’re in Kaladin Stormblessed’s squad.” The other soldiers nearby nodded in agreement.

Sanderson prose is often cheesy and always simple; but it is clear and evocative so I don't have a problem with it, what I dislike is how much he repeats stuff he already made clear; for example, in Mistborn it was really common when a Misting used his allomantic power; Sanderson would write a couple sentences explaining (again) what metal he used, the name by which that particular kind of user was known, what the power actually is, some flavor text about how cool the power is; and then he proceeded with the narration. This happened over and over again ever other chapter.

This reads like an online roleplay.

Yea I only listen to the audio books but for the most part it is entertaining and not too cheesy like most fantasy is. Obviously this isn't the best of his writing but its the average, some stuff is quite brilliant (in the sense it is exactly what I want)

>Why do we (people in general) seem to value natural talent over hard work when it comes to the arts?
Because it makes for a better story. A misunderstood genius has a more romantic feels that the average joe who manages to produce great work by perfecting his craft throughout sheer effort.

Still most of the great writers fall in the latter group. But we only see the results, not the process. Then we simply romanticize their story after their masterpieces are published, and make a romantic story out of their hardship.
This is one of the main theme in Ulysses.

This is also one of the main characteristic of good writing: it seems to flow efortless. Think about it like a violin performance: there is no struggle, the performer gracefully goes through the most complex passage like it's nothing, and we stand in awe to his genius. We, of course, have not seen how much time he had to put to reach that level.

There is one downside aspect to this, and is that aspiring writers (or artists of any kind, for what matter), feel soon disheartened when they see that what they produce is not up to the level of the masters. Leaving aside the hint of arrogance in this, this steems from the idea that artistic work is inspired, rather than slowly crafted. But as soon as a person gets involved with other writers, or takes a course in anything, quickly realizes how long it takes to write anything, from fiction to a research paper — it's build piece by piece, and many times rewritten.

I've never read Sanderson, but I listened to some of his talks and it somwhat surprises me how down-to-earth he is compared to his peers.

>pure hard work and knowledge
He's backed by the mormon literature mafia, as well as the freemasons allegedly
>trad
He's mormon which is nearly the opposite of trad, plus he's allegedly a freemason which is the opposite of trad
This. He's a historian to his own works, not a storyteller. He would do great on a fromsoft game especially with all their subversion of Christian morals, but he's shit at writing novels

>a fromsoft game especially with all their subversion of Christian morals
QRD?

The lore, setting, and moral lessons surrounding fromsoft's games draw almost exclusively from gnosticism aka satanism. Gnosticism survives today through the jews via their talmud and kabbalah as well as the jews servants the freemasons. the masons are everywhere including japan, and they love nothing more than to inject their works with their gnostic(satanic) beliefs (wheel of time, way of kings, super Mario 64 and fromsoft games to name a few relevant ones) These satanic beliefs are then subversively mixed with Christian imagery, prayers, and morals to mock Jesus Christ and to devalue Catholicism (the one true faith). for example the mixture of pagan deity's and pantheons being worshipped in cathedrals, the use of prayers and blessings as spellcasting, the use of priests as pagans or demon worshippers, the church as an evil cult, etc. And with the final lesson of the games usually being the core tenant of gnosticism, to become or usurp (a false)god, plus the duality choice endings, there is 0 chance fromsoft creates it by coincidence, it is strictly planned.

>a freemason which is the opposite of trad
All trad writer praised by Yea Forums have ties to freemasonry or are freemasons (Evola, Guenon…)

This certifies Sanderson as Trad

voca.ro/15Zo4VFbf5xb

You sound like a fucking autistic sperg, holy shit.

haha, fair

Jesus Christ, I can’t believe I share this bird with you. Kys.

I think it's because it's just such an awesome thing to witness genius, people wish that they were chosen instead, and I can't blame them. You're right though hard work is just as- even more admirable and awesome. Problem is many people don't want to work hard. So many people have this false idea that if they're not proficient by X age they never can be and shouldn't even try. It's really sad. They also probably chase after fame and fortune which can be alright but it shouldn't be all. A lot of people have this who cares attitude because they won't ever be as big as some guy at the top but it shouldn't matter.

I only read Mistborn and its ok, it didn't leave an impact on me like other writers but he is fun to read and he knows how to write a good plot, he is obviously good at something and people enjoy it, he got fans and I think more people are getting more into fantasy novels because of him.

Living in shame and misery
Total lack of supremacy
Living just to rage and scream
Rage so hard I blow steam

>All trad writer praised by Yea Forums have ties to freemasonry or are freemasons
>This certifies Sanderson as Trad
You have no idea what trad is. Trad is traditional as in Christian Tradition in all aspects of life. From how we dress, how we speak, our faith, our worship of God, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, it is every second of our lives. The freemasons and their masters the jews, literally started wars (the revolutions which started with the French revolution through the "enlightenment") to end tradition and remove the western world from God and Jesus Christ's teachings. We were traditional people when we had God present in every second of our lives as a people, now we don't even have that culturally, look around. mason scum are not trad they are gnostic satanics.

I feel like Chuck Wendig is a serviceable but unimpressive writer

art is not rlly that abstract tbqh

Big cope, massive seethe

epic

This guys takes over the whole market using the clever lit machine tactic, he employs a squad of mormon goons that go around blackmailing, threatening, and beating up talented authors to scare them away from pursuing their careers and publishing their works, even the most famous authors have been blackmailed and humiliates into not completing their work and releasing their magnum opus, this mormon lit machine crushes all that stand against it and they are the scummiest of goons, they literally hack authors computers and print sensitive documents.

Take your meds.

life is too short

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Why do people read this shit when actually well written fantasy exists? Gene Wolfe or even that hack Rothfuss make this look like fan fic written by a high-schooler.

Gene Wolfe is a meme, his writing is t stellar either. I’ll even say he’s overhype. Read Tolkien

Wolfe is a peasant compared to the liked pf Bakker, Bakker makes Wolfe look like smut written by a cuckold.

Gene the jackal the de-balled dog
Named after jackals, looks like a hog

I agree with the fact he makes people read, better this than people watching netflix or marvel movies.