I'm an agnostic and I'm interested in arguments for the existence of a god. Is this book a good place to start?

I'm an agnostic and I'm interested in arguments for the existence of a god. Is this book a good place to start?

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In my experience, no way. They have nothing but the thread of faith. If you have no faith left in a particular religion, you shouldn’t waste time hearing out Christians anymore. The whole religion is based off of the worst edited “holy book” of contradictions.
Of course I’m biased as I’ve found happiness as an atheist. Good luck on your journey. Read whatever.

>They have nothing but the thread of faith.
>The whole religion is based off of the worst edited “holy book” of contradictions.

This is the exact attitude that this very book eloquently dismantles. Read the book OP, couldn't hurt to give it a shot.

Yet in no way does it.
Go on. Try it.

Thanks, but I get the feeling you haven't read it.

another redditor found their way here.

I am curious OP, what keeps you from atheism?

New Age attempt at saying Christianity is true by stealing shit from better religions Christianity never had.

Already an admission of sorts in the post.
The only defense is to throw an irrational stone. Typical monkey.
Still waiting for that example from maybe he hasn’t read it either.

While theism has an argument for a first cause (albeit one that I am very skeptical of), atheism simply doesn't has one. Sometimes atheists even say it wrong to ask such a question, which I think this is absurd.

Additionally, sometimes I can't help but feel that such an incredible world as ours must be teleological in nature. I know I can never have proof of this, but I also cannot have proof that other people are phenomenally conscious. The best I can do is say that I know I am conscious, and given that other people display similar behaviours to me, then I assume they are conscious too. A simpler explanation is that I'm looking at it the wrong way round: rather than it being the case that other people behave like me because they are conscious toi, it is simpler to believe that I have only learnt to mimic the unconscious p-zombies around me. Ockham's razor would state that I should choose this option, because it assumes the existence of less unprovable facts. But I can't take that option. I just know, beyond everything else, that people are conscious. My intuition also leads me to suspect that God exists, because it seems to me that such an incredibly complex and extraordinary world cannot exist by chance, so why shouldn't I trust my intuition here too?

I still don't believe I can ever know that there is a god, however, so this is why I remain a theist.

Im philosophically an atheist, and ive spent many years studying apologetic sophistry out of a personal fascination, so ive seen all the arguments under the sun. The best is the purely empirical and the fully deniable artistic intent/divine coincidences argument.

Thank you, I am in a very similar boat to you.

>artistic intent/divine coincidences argument.
That's not exclusively Christian though.
Your belief is solipsistic annihilationism. Literally check out any non Abrahamic religion or philosophy before falling for the Jewish Guru meme. Most of your issues are solved by things not limited to modern western frameworks.

Doesn't Buddhism answer all of these with discerning practice?

>to modern western frameworks.
Like what?
>inb4 intuition
lmao don't waste our time

Mere Christianity by CS Lewis.

Kant's The Only Possible Argument in Support of a Demonstration of the Existence of God

It's very good. That, Atheist Delusions and Beauty of the Infinite are the DBH trilogy that gives the best overview and introduction to Christianity possible for someone who is already familiar with a bit of philosophy.

If you still want to read more after finishing those three try Introduction to Christianity by Ratzinger and Cosmos by Louis Bouyer

There's a reason atheists avoid DBH at all costs, he's so far above them intellectually that they can barely even comprehend him.

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I think either Summa Theologica or Fear and Trembling are better to find faith

Didin't he let refute that pre-critical work in his critical period?

plato.stanford.edu/entries/ontological-arguments/

fedoras think they can get away with pretending people still argue for a "personal, christian" god but they don't realize that no one seriously has made that argument since 1600.
Spinoza's version of the ontological argument is undefeated.

>Christianity is all rooted in the thread of faith
Cringe, midwit take. Other denominations such as Catholicism embrace faith and reason unlike Protestants.

this is a great book. Hart is an eloquent thinker and actually provides a lot to chew on with this one. anyone who thinks they can't divine anything of interest in a work like this might be right, but in this case I can speak from personal experience: this was great and I'm glad I went in open minded

I know you're speaking from intuition, but what relevance is the "incredible" nature of our world when it's the only world that exists, at least as far as we know? It's possible that as far as "worlds" go, ours isn't ever incredible, but you have no frame of reference.

very*, not ever

All arguments for Christianity rooted in reason are really just arguments for deism. The Christian part comes entirely from faith.

my 12 year old does not believe in God. Can anyone recommend me a book? A quote? Anything? I've been so sleepless it took me three tries to type the CAPTCHA. This worries me.

Yes. Christianity is so loaded with baseless junk compared to Buddhism.

I honestly think people argue for god to be transcendent because then it’s improbable. But, even if such a transcendent god exists, the idea that it would be the Yahweh of the Tanakh or incarnated as a 1st century rabbi is nonsensical.

You can argue for such a god, but how would Christian and Jewish scripture be relevant to it at all?

>muh one god who is the transcendent source of all things also has distinct characteristics like jealousy
so its just schlock

Yup, Christian theology really is an inner-conflict of trying to make such a deistic god match with scripture. Same issue with Islam, which has an extreme monotheism that borders on deism/panentheism, and yet somehow this unknowable deity told some Nabataeans-Arab to write a book — what is the evidence for this? The book says so.

>no one has made the argument for a christian god since 1600
??????????
If you wanna be a deist have at it bro, but I better not see you slide in some stupid religious shit in there.

I have posted here before, but as I was ignored I will post again. Since no one can tell what anyone says here, I will just say that I think you must model the universe before you can find God in it.

Do they say why they don’t believe in God? That’ll give a good starting place.

lol hey guys someone linked this thread in /x/ based take here waht if we find God in the universe and then spacetime turns into aliens. It's like hide and seek with our creators!

Such a transcendent deity would be impossible to speak about - absolutely apophatic.

Spinoza’s Argument for Substance Monism is generally deemed a failure by contemporary philosophers.

There were many pre-Christian deistic arguments. Aristotle essentially set the precedent for Christians, but then Christians try to cram their scripture into it. Even Neoplatonism had a transcendent Theos.

better throw out the bible then

Possibility is the reference in these matters, intuitively speaking.

you wont find God in a book, only within

Sorry, could you elaborate further?

Yup.

>only within
So how do you do that?

>happy atheist
no such thing

be alone with yourself without being clouded by self hatred, or go and be naked in nature

based unfalsifiable statement on the unknowable mental states of others

Sounds pretty great, I’ll try the first one tonight. Any recommendations in terms of posture or anything, or do those things not matter?

Same thing with deism, really.
“My god exists because is he beyond any way to prove or know if he does exist”

Gotta figure that out yourself. For me, it started with psilocybin mushrooms, but continued far, far after the fact far into sobriety. The cosmos has ways of showing its true nature if you search in the right ways.

>true nature
Such is the object of the eternal quest. Thanks bro.

if you wanna get into super detail about it you can get into yogic philosophy about how the structure of the body can be a direct line to experiencing God, but i have had good success from literally just sitting cross legged in the dark (no phones or music or any sounds), and aligning my head with my heart, my heart with my hips and just letting the thoughts run themselves out until your mind starts making things up from beyond itself to entertain itself. good luck user

>durrrr subjective experiences are all the same!!!!! how could you POSSIBLY be able to experience something i cant!?!?!

cmon man bring some fucking brains to the table, jesus christ

Idk what you thought I said but you sound loveless

Just read Berkeley. Or Augustine, or Aquinas, etc. Christianity is truth, everything else is distraction and not even any good at it. The only issue is how to serve Christ the best, and that's a very hard thing to do.

Nice, I know you said Yogic and not Buddhist but that sounds like Shikantaza. Any recommendations for getting into Yogic stuff?

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nothing specific unfortunately, but practice it yourself, im still a beginner so i follow along Yoga with Adrienne on youtube, and follow it with a meditation session, have been able to get a fairly grand sense of losing my physical surroundings and nearly losing the sense of being in my body

>Such is the object of the eternal quest. Thanks bro
No problem user. Figuring what "this" all is and our place within it is the natural and quickest way intended for man to peak behind the veil and see the light beyond.

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i thought you said something along the lines of 'because your God is unprovable within my existence, it cannot exist'

i hope im not loveless :(

>losing my physical surroundings and nearly losing the sense of being in my body
Isn’t that sort of what death/dying is supposed to be like? Spooky stuff, but maybe this practice will make life feel more real in contrast, or something.

Oh okay. Well my bad at lashing out over a misunderstanding, I’m sure you’re not loveless (even though you’re on Yea Forums, but then again so am I lol)

from my understanding, and experience, the idea of God is the universe at large with self awareness. Bodyless consciousness. It is close to an idea of death, but its merely death of the organic body, not of the self, for the self will reunite with God, the oroginal Subjectivity, upon the loss o the organic body