Was Guénon a Muslim?

Was searching the archives and I found a good post:

Was Guénon a Muslim? No.

"What also surprised me a great deal was the regret that I had no biographical information about myself; this is something I have always formally opposed, and above all for a reason of principle, because, according to traditional doctrine, individualities count for nothing and must disappear entirely ... But, in spite of this, I am obliged at least to rectify erroneous assertions when they occur; For example, I cannot let it be said that I am "converted to Islam", because this way of presenting things is completely false; anyone who is aware of the essential unity of traditions is by this very fact "unconvertible" to anything, he is even the only one who is; but he can "settle down", if it is permitted to express himself in this way, in this or that tradition according to circumstances, and especially for reasons of an initiatory nature. I would like to add in this regard that my links with Islamic esoteric organizations are not something more or less recent as some people seem to think; in fact, they are almost 40 years old...".o
- Letter from René Guénon to A. Daniélou, August 27, 1947, my translation - i'm french and my English is bad so sorry if there are mistakes

Retarded Muslims who try to grab his glory must get out. Guénon was Sufi at the end of his life, for purely practical reasons: he already had links with Sufi organizations and he wanted to leave France. The closest and most convenient was the Maghreb.

99.99% of the Muslims who try to seize Guénon's genius by saying "he converted to Islam lol" are refuted by the master himself in this letter and probably never read him, because they would make apostate any Muslim having 1/10th of Guénon's beliefs. Some points of his belief in brief:

1. that all religions are currently valid to lead to God and that Islam is only the most practical path of our time for a European
2. that deliverance (union with the Absolute, death of the ego, al-fana' ) is superior to salvation (entry into paradise), the latter being there for the masses when deliverance is the way of the elites
3. that the world is a part of God and that there is an Absolute superior to the personal God.
4. that it is desirable to achieve supra-individual states through intiation
5. that there is an esoteric path that transcends religious divisions

The Sufi Islam of Guénon is: yes.

The exoteric Islam of 99.99% of the Muslims on earth: it's no, it's shit, and it's probably the worst exotericism still alive.

>Hopefully, this will stop the retarded speculations with regards to Guénon that are brought up here time and time again, in relation to his "conversion" to Islam — and whatever that line of speculation may entail.

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>“The Exoteric Islam Doesn't Interest Me More Than Any Other Religion. But The Mysticism Interests Me. It's Like Hinduism.— [Frithjof Schuon: Messenger Of The Perennialist Philosophy DVD]”

>Hence for Schuon, Vedanta was something like a key unlocking the very same truths found at the heart of Ṣūfism, truths only obscured by the limitations of Islamic theology. On this point he elaborated, “we take our stand on Shankaracharya [the founder of Advaita Vedanta], not on an Ibn ʿArabī; the latter we accept only insofar as we find in him something of the Vedanta” (Lipton 2018: 138).

>In line with nineteenth cenutry Orientalist and German Romanticist understandings of language family and race, Schuon believed that Ṣūfism suffered from a Semitic “subjectivism,” and hence it lacked the objectivity to “consistently discern the transcendent formlessness of essential truth from religious particularism,” while holding that the “Aryan metaphysics of Vedanta and Platonism” retained this objectivity (Lipton 2018: 122). In his work Le Soufisme: voile et quintessence (1980) Schuon summarises his perspective on this issue describing Aryans (Indians, Persians, and Europeans) as “above all metaphysicians and therefore logicians,” while characterising Semites (Jews and Arabs) as “a priori mystics and moralists,” and “subjectivists” (Schuon 2006 [1980]: 21).

I guess it seems Unanimous. The Muslims who come into these /trad/ threads should try to form some sort of response.

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Guénon did not follow Sufi Islam. There was never such a thing as an esoteric Sufism that left the fold of Islam through doctrines like those Guénon held to, Sufism has always, by and large, adheared to Islamic orthodoxy and exclusivism, including figures like Ibn Arabi. Not so long ago, after all, Sufism was orthodoxy, even Ibn Taymiyya was not necessarily opposed to all forms of Sufism when he was writing.

>Sufism has always, by and large, adheared to Islamic orthodoxy and exclusivism.
So then Guénon wad not Muslim Sufi or whatever else, you would probably say he was just a larping occultist initiated into a sufi brotherhood fullstop, and you are declaring Perennialism a heresy/incompatible with islam correct? I don't see why Muslims still say "he converted to Islam lol" as it is said in the OP post, I just made this thread to clear confusion, because I see some people say
>Guénon was retarded he *converted to Islam!
>Guénon *converted to Islam! Because it is the superior tradition etc. And nonsense like this, when "anyone who is aware of the essential unity of traditions is by this very fact "unconvertible" to anything."

Anyway this thread should be cleaned up by the jannies kinda pointless in retrospect

Correct.

>HE WANT MUSLIM NOOOOO
Absolute cope from christcucks
His last word was Allah . Yeah literally not god of islam

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even Ibn Taymiyya was not necessarily opposed to all forms of Sufism when he was writing.
Ibn Taymiyyah actually praises Sufi. There’s a lovely quote of his saying some of them are the best of people, some of them are bad people and some of them are average people. Just like anybody else. He says the people considered heretical aren’t truly Sufi and have simply attached themselves to the name without any merit. Bin Baz was asked about this quoted and said he agreed with it.

I couldn't care any less. It's Guénon who attached himself to Islam, not the other way around. Henry Corbin though–he converted to Twelver Shi'a Islam.

He was muslim as in wanted Islam to conquer the world

Exoteric Christianity is marginally worse than exoteric Islam.

>Henry Corbin though–he converted to Twelver Shi'a Islam.
source? I thought he remained a Catholic his whole life

Guenon basically wanted to find a nondualist tradition within all other religions as their core, because nondualist mysticism was what he considered real metaphysics and real mysticism.

This is easy enough with Vedanta, not least because Advaita Vedanta by Guenon's day had been reconstructed for over a century with reference to European platonist nondualism since the European colonizers took this to be the ultimate "pure" religion and Indian with education wanted to show that they had a "pure" religion too, and so they were a proud people alongside Europeans.

But it is harder to do with Sufism, the mystical dimensions of which were in particular decline by Guenon's time. Sufi orders were pretty degenerate. As with India, the modern Sufi revival owes a lot to Europeans studying Islam and saying "this is the pure form of Islam" or "look Islam has high level philosophy in it too," and then Muslims becoming proud and saying yes exactly so we are a great people too, equal to Europeans.

But Guenon was in Egypt before that had taken off. So he had to find the nondualist Platonism/Vedanta he wanted to find in a historically reconstructed Islam that nobody really practiced. He rebuked Schuon for not keeping up the exoteric externals of Islam but neither did he, since he would have denied that Muhammad's revelation from God was the unique and last revelation, and that the Quran is absolutely necessary for salvation.

Islam is primarily an exoteric faith and the exoteric elements are not "externals." It can have an internal aspect like any other revealed religion, you can do mysticism once you take the Torah or the Bible or the Quran as revelation, but mysticism it not necessary to be a Jew or Christian or Muslim, while taking the Torah/Bible/Quran as revelation is.

White readers of Guenon:
>Very profound and unique insights, I will have to read some more of his books
Nonwhite readers of Guenon:
>PRAISE BE TO HOLY GUENON PEACE BE UPON HIM KRISHNA SPEAKS THROUGH THE ALMIGHTY WE ARE SAVED

>This is easy enough with Vedanta, not least because Advaita Vedanta by Guenon's day had been reconstructed for over a century with reference to European platonist nondualism since the European colonizers took this to be the ultimate "pure" religion and Indian with education wanted to show that they had a "pure" religion too, and so they were a proud people alongside Europeans.
It was never "reconstructed" in India because it was never lost, Advaita is an continuous unbroken intellectual tradition, it was never a "lost" thing that had to be "reconstructed" by Indians under European help but in basically every single century since Shankara there were Advaitins composing texts in Sanskrit and referencing and citing the works of the previous generation of Advaitins.

I find spending more than a few minutes on Yea Forums quickly undoes any higher state of consciousness I may have obtained. Although this may be a personal weakness, nevertheless the sort of rational-discursive thinking it usually entails is against the aims of spiritual practices.

I relate to this

wrong

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really well-made infographic
any idea where it's from?

Nothing in that image (which is largely tenuous speculation) disproves the fact that Advaita is an unbroken continuous intellectual tradition from Shankara to today.

As far as before Shankara's time (which is what that image is concerned with, and which has nothing to do with between Shankara and right now) we don't know because very few prose writings from the pre-Christian era survive, but it's entirely possible. Shankara is the first major commentator on the Upanishads whose works survive to today, but he references earlier Advaitins like Gaudapada as well as even earlier ones like Dramidacarya etc.

Why does Guenon say the kali yuga started around 6000 years ago and will end soon, and others pajeet wisemen say kali yuga is hundreds of thousands of years old and there will be mini golden ages in the kali yuga?

It was made by the anti-guenonfag, real name P**** A******, he talks with a gay sounding lisp in real life and is balding. I know who he is but I won't expose him, even though he has stalked me for years.

answer me you pajeets

SPICY CURRY

I don't get this image. Wasn't Guenon anti-buddhist and pro-advaita?

You sound like Ivan

>source? I thought he remained a Catholic his whole life

You're incredibly retarded and obviously never read a line of Corbin, no surprise from Guenonian zoom zooms.

Correct.

Guenon was a peak skim reader and used confirmation bias to claim that he saw crypto-Buddhism everywhere. It's really just unfalsifiable garbage. When the tradition outright refutes Shankaran Buddhism Guenon just says "No, Shankaran Buddhism is present just esoterically." It always has to be there, if it's not, it's just le esoteric and hidden.

The reality is Shankaran Buddhism is an incredibly overrated metaphysics that nobody really cares about. Guenon never set foot in India and acted like he knew everything about it. The same thing happened with Islam. When he arrived in Egypt he realized nobody cared about his ideas (he scolded them for being 'too westernized') and he didn't like the Sufi practices he found.

Real.

Dating and timeline of Kalyug can be a whole thread in itself. Go start one.

Because he's a retard who syncretized a bunch of neo-Thomism conservatism with freemasonry and theosophism.

Guenon thought reincarnation wasn't real. He was nothing more than a vain and paranoid self-hating white man who held a very idealized vision of eastern religions. He hated academia for the sole reason that he failed to get into it and it would mean having to back up his claims with hard evidence, instead of waving away problems as "it's just esoteric, bro."

Guenonianism can only function if you disregard 90% of the tradition. His obsessive cult followers think this is a good thing,

Guenonposter is on Yea Forums 24/7. Let that sink in. That's the fruit of Guenonian realization.

You can't answer it because Guenon was talking about things he didn't understand.

Not exactly on topic, but I was reading East and West, and in the second section about science, where Guenon talks about how the west uses the word science as an empty buzz word to hide behind...I had a sudden realization of how accurate it was. I kept hearing Anthony Fauci's voice in my head saying "trust the science". To this day we remain a nation of morons, easily controlled by anyone in power who would invoke the word science.

All Guenon did was write about his philosophies too. Now get out dishonest person.

>You sound like Ivan
Yes, because I have been arguing for Guenonian Traditionalism and the related promotion of Advaita all these years as part of a shadowy plot to advance the Putler Regime. Only reactionary mysticism can save zoomers from accepting atheistic wittgensteinian buddhistic trannyism. We have to stop globohomo here on the interwebs before it corrupts the last bastion of the white Christian race.

SLAVA ROSSIYA

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Guenonposter is on Yea Forums 24/7. Let that sink in, retard.

>from accepting atheistic wittgensteinian buddhistic trannyism.

That's exactly Shankara though.

>All Guenon did was write about his philosophies too. Now get out dishonest person.

>Guenon thought reincarnation wasn't real
Because he correctly held that transmigration and not reincarnation was what the Hindu tradition actually teaches. I see through your deception, hylic

>That's exactly Shankara though.
You have to be unimaginably stupid to think so. Use your brain for a moment, if that was true, would the Buddhists and skepticfags here seethe so much about Advaita? It's patently absurd.

>Let me tell you about your culture: the white opium addict

No I just want to see the same question answered.

Buddhists don't think about Shankara. It's the other way around. Buddhism lives rent-free in Shankaran minds, as you can see with Guenon, who was refuted by Coomaraswamy and Marco Pallis on the question of Buddhism, and Guenon had to grudgingly make revisions to parts of his books, just like he did with parts of East and West after it was obvious he was writing about a land he had no idea about.

Don't trust a travel guide who's never been the country he's talking about.

Damn, it sounds like Guenon was larping and didn't really know why or what he was actually doing.

>Although both Guénon and Schuon believed that adherence to a religion’s exoteric morals and laws was a requirement to practice its esoteric path, and hence believed that genuine Ṣūfis should be committed Muslims, they tended to interpret Islamic thought through the lens of Hinduism’s Advaita Vedanta philosophy, which continued for them to be the hallmark of explicit metaphysical truth. Schuon in particular criticised conventional Islamic theology and devotion as overly moralistic in nature, in some cases inhibiting the realisation of pure metaphysics, and was comfortable integrating Christian and Indigenous religious symbols and practices into his order. However, both Guénon and Schuon held Ṣūfism and its Islamic form to be one of the most accessible means of Traditional initiation, and their writings on Ṣūfism and personal practice of Islam were paradigmatic for most Traditionalists who followed them, leading to the establishment of a Traditionalist Islam in Europe and North America.
>brill.com/view/book/9789004435544/BP000038.xml?
Wrong.

>Guenon was a peak skim reader and used confirmation bias to claim that he saw crypto-Buddhism everywhere
This. He even framed Christ in Shankaran Buddhist / generic Hindu terms. He was just throwing exotic ideas together. Honestly, if he's supposed to be the best there ever was, this whole perennial mysticism just seems like a waste of time.

He didn't. He spoke of Ibn Arabi as if he was identical to Shankara but Ibn Arabi refutes that position constantly.

Guenon would literally tell white Europeans to convert to Islam to become a Sufi like Ibn Arabi, but he had no idea what Ibn Arabi actually represented.

>Guenon, who was refuted by Coomaraswamy and Marco Pallis on the question of Buddhism
Their """refutation""" consisted of pointing out that Buddha can be read as secretly agreeing with the Upanishads and Advaita in contrast to how the Buddhist tradition understands Buddha. In other words Coomaraswamy and Pallis pretended that Buddha was a crypto-Advaitin, and Guenon assented to this because in was in line with his reading of perennialism anyway. That doesn't really harm Guenon's thesis of perennial non-dualism but it just lumps another historical figure in as someone who can be subordinated to it.

> Guenon was proven wrong about something he was adamant about, this isn't a bad thing

lol so he fucks up Ibn Arabi/Sufism and now he fucks up Buddhism but that's totally okay everything about him is sound and you should put your spiritual path in this man's hands

I think only covid karens are more retardedly dogmatic than you.

Gueno was wrong, here's why it means Guenon is actually working

>lol so he fucks up Ibn Arabi/Sufism and now he fucks up Buddhism but that's totally okay everything about him is sound and you should put your spiritual path in this man's hands
It's not really "fucking up", because the diluted spiritual paths are subordinated to Shankaran non-dualism, so telling people to become Sufis even when its sometimes a diluted approach (in some but not all cases) to the primordial metaphysical truth is better than having no tradition at all, just like joining the diluted/watered-down Vishishtadvaita is better than nothing at all and it still leads to the Brahmaloka where you can then reach moksha. Schuon noted that Shankara goes further than Ibn Arabi

>Hence for Schuon, Vedanta was something like a key unlocking the very same truths found at the heart of Ṣūfism, truths only obscured by the limitations of Islamic theology. On this point he elaborated, “we take our stand on Shankaracharya [the founder of Advaita Vedanta], not on an Ibn ʿArabī; the latter we accept only insofar as we find in him something of the Vedanta” (Lipton 2018: 138).
>In line with nineteenth cenutry Orientalist and German Romanticist understandings of language family and race, Schuon believed that Ṣūfism suffered from a Semitic “subjectivism,” and hence it lacked the objectivity to “consistently discern the transcendent formlessness of essential truth from religious particularism,” while holding that the “Aryan metaphysics of Vedanta and Platonism” retained this objectivity (Lipton 2018: 122). In his work Le Soufisme: voile et quintessence (1980) Schuon summarises his perspective on this issue describing Aryans (Indians, Persians, and Europeans) as “above all metaphysicians and therefore logicians,” while characterising Semites (Jews and Arabs) as “a priori mystics and moralists,” and “subjectivists” (Schuon 2006 [1980]: 21).

Coomaraswamy was an Indian and he makes the exact same point about Guenon as them teaching transmigration and not reincarnation. AKC has a whole chapter on it in his book 'Perception of the Vedas'

I love reading the Guenon sperging, I imagine you all as being seething indians or arabs.

Truly, he was such a brilliant man, that even when he appears to be initially mistaken (Buddha was a hylic), it ends up actually confirming his original thesis (the primordial tradition is non-dualism, and it turns out Buddha was in on it too)

post hand

>it's shit,
Yes

>it's probably the worst exotericism still alive.
That's a stretch. Christianity is worse, pozzed garbage for feminine men and Guenon didn't like Christianity, or Buddhism for the most part. Christianity doesn't have any esoteric current within it, which he says himself. Hindus literally keep cows in their temples who shit all over the floor, they worship monkey/elephant gods and do all kinds of shit no european would ever accept to do or even believe. At least muslims keep their mosques clean. And taoism is inaccessible to us. So that leaves only finding within Islam a suitable sufi order.

I got you stuck off the realness, we be the gnosis
You heard of us, official non-dual murderers
The Trads comes equipped for memetic warfare, beware
Of my autodidact family who got nuff tomes to share
For all of those, who wanna profile and pose
Retroactively refute your favorite philosopher, make you give on your role as their expositor
You all alone in these threads, hylic
Every man for they self on this board we be postin
And keep them shook pseuds running, like they supposed to
They spam pastas but they never come close to realization
I can see it inside your face, you're in the wrong thread and finna get an education
Buddhists like you just get they religion laced up
With retroactive refutations and such
Speak the wrong words man and you will get debunked
You can put your whole Guenonfag screencap collection against my team and
I guarantee you I'll be the very last one postin
Your modernist assumptions just don't move me, you're minor, we're major
You're all up in the debate and don't deserve to be a poster
Don't make me have to call your maya-based delusions out
Your theory is refuted, my Guenon (pbuh) quotes make you hesitate
I'm only eternal and unborn but my mind is old
And when the things get for real Brahman dawns in my heart removing the cold
Another Process philosopher destroyed, another story gets told
It ain't nothing really, hey, yo dun spark the opium
So I can get my mind off these duplicitous materialists
Why they still posting I don't know, go figure
Meanwhile back on the Guenonian discord the realness and foundation
If I attain fanāʾ I couldn't choose a better location
When Shankarcharya's arguments penetrate Buddhists feel a burning sensation
Getting closer to Allah (swt) in a tight situation
Now, take these words hylic and think it through
Or the next rhyme I write might be about you

>Hindus literally keep cows in their temples who shit all over the floor, they worship monkey/elephant gods and do all kinds of shit no european would ever accept to do or even believe
They would never do it because so many of them have been turned into souless mammon-worshipping golems. When you are in touch with the divine, you behave like a saint towards nature, like Francis of Assisi

read Savitri Devi

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>Hindus literally keep cows in their temples who shit all over the floor
Based
>us
I would question whether or not you are white. Muslims today are for the most part retarded inbred peasants, worse than medieval times. Even the supposed upper castes molest little boys and put things in their asses. Or just look at the slums in Europe, these people are totally inferior. I have no interest in their plebian semitic cult. If you are a Westerner study the Hermetic-alchemical Tradition and search for a master, or get into an eastern thing I guess.

>profaning Guenon with nigger shit
puke

>read Savitri Devi
>hitler-worshipping schizo who married a pajeet
no thank you sir, you can keep your plebian semitic cult Saints as well

>Was Guénon a Muslim?
Yes.
/thread

>>hitler-worshipping schizo who married a pajeet
What she says in her books is often still largely on-point though, at least when she's not talking about esoteric Hitlerism

>Francis of Assisi
How is talking about a dead Jew from the Levant to birds acting like a saint? It's more of a projection of one's narcissism and savior complex. Birds don't need Jewsus to be free.