Christ the Eternal Tao

>In the beginning was the Tao, and the Tao was with God, and the Tao was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made...And the Tao became flesh and dwelt among us

Before Christ came into the World, he was manifest before man in a way that could only be seen through the light of the intellect. The sages of the Eastern Cultures gave it different names, but saw the same reality. For Veda Vyasa is was Om, for Heraclitus and the Greeks it was Logos, for Lao Tzu it was the Tao(Way) and for the Christians it was Jesus Christ.

These sages sensed the presence of Christ everywhere, but they did not see him. They found Christ in living things, in the nooks and crannies of mountains, in the streams and rivers and oceans, and even in the wind. Yet, Christ was not these things, but He spoke in these things as the Course that all things follow. Not knowing His Name, they called him by another, the Way. The things of nature have no choice, but to follow the Course of Nature. The birds fly and chirp, the acorn grows into an oak, the rivers twist and turn around those things in their path. It is Man alone who is given choice. Man finds himself able to go his own way, to a degree, or he like the other things can follow the Way.

A man who follows the Way will suffer with the pain of the cosmos, but he will find the Originating Principle, and if he follows his own way, he will suffer alone and he will find chaos.

Not having seen Christ or being revealed His Name, but only His traces these sages could only speak in pale verses and riddles, however, through intuition and attention to their surroundings they could know some things as he passed through nature around them.

So what was this Course that all things followed, and why would one say that it leads to suffering with the world? Take a look around you, no thing exist for itself. Each thing, save man, humbly and patiently fulfills it's proper role without thinking about it. Each thing does this without possessing, without rebelling, without complaining without blame and without taking the honor for itself. The seed of a tree falls to the ground, and in doing so it dies. From it's death arises a new tree bearing fruit and more seeds than one could count. Preserve the seed whole and you will get nothing, only if you allow it to die will it bring life. This is a microcosmic image of the Way, the Pattern that all things follow. This was known by the ancient sages.

How can we describe the Way?

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We can say what ever the Way does, the Way is. Does not a beautiful piece of craftsmanship speak of the artist behind it? Likewise the Creation speaks of the One who is behind it. If all things that are made follow the Way, and the Way is what the Way does, then does it not follow that the Maker of things follows the Way?

You see if each thing that is made serves another, and all things together serve the whole, would it not follow that the Way also serves? If all created things, except man, humbly and patiently fulfill their roles should it not follow that the Way also does the same? How can the Way do the same if it does not walk the earth as created things do, and if the Way did walk the Earth what would be his role? We have seen earlier that the Course of Nature shows that one thing must die that another might live, and thus it must be the case that the Way shall do the same. But how was the Way to die, for it is the fountain of life itself? Who was it going to die for? This was the mystery of the cosmos prior to the Tao becoming flesh.

The sages knew that as each thing serves the purpose of another, so does the Maker of things serve all things. They knew that as each thing dies for another, so it would be that the Way would die for all things. Through intuition the sages gathered this knowledge, and of this mystery they knew, but of the greatest mystery they could not know. The mystery of his perfect love not just for man, but all things prior to the world's being. They could not know this until He had walked among them, entered into them through His flesh and blood and vowed to never leave or abandon them to the wiles of Death. He would become man, and as is proper to the Way, he would suffer and die, not for his own sake, but for the sake others.

By becoming man and emptying himself for others He was able to hide Himself in a body of mortality that Death might open up its doors and consume Him. However, Death is destroyed in the presence of Life. Where Life is no Death can be found. Opening up it's doors to what it thought was a man, Death let in Life itself, and was destroyed.

If you found this to be an interesting read you can get more like it from a book called Christ the Eternal Tao by Hieromonk Damascene. Glory be to Christ, our King and our God. Now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen.

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This is obviously heretical.

I suppose that since "Eastern philosophy" has gotten trendy over the last 200 years while Christianity has continued its clumsy descent back to its base origins, there are bound to be some christers who wish to baptize their favorite Hindu, Buddhist, or Taoist thinkers. But this an entirely dishonest enterprise and would be at odds with the covenant theology at the heart of Christianity, which always shines through the trappings of embarassed apologetic thinkers who go out of fashion eventually. The pursuit of wisdom or of philosophy is irrelevant to the covenant, which is why the early christers scorned it and practiced pure fideism. You either follow the contract or you don't. Later, copes were invented by apologists: "actually this is just platonism but better," and today we are asked for an "actually this is just vedanta but better" or "actually this is just taoism but better" but this removes us from the Bible. It catholicizes, if you will, but the catholicized convert will always be tempted to inevitably read the book they were told they already agreed with in spirit, and when they do, they will become protestantized and CORRECTLY interpret that the texts are really covenant theology and not Platonism or Taoism whatever else, and then attempt to make themselves Israelites. Consider the Taiping Rebellion. No doubt, dishonest christer missionaries had converted Chinese people using Taoist vocabulary, but as soon as the Chinese themselves began to read the Bible, they turned on China like the christers turned on Rome. It's the same playbook. You don't actually have an appreciation for Taoism but would add it to the arsenal of slaves.

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This shows a complete misunderstanding of Taoism. Sure, if you completely redefine terms you can make anything fit your narrative.

>Later, copes were invented by apologists: "actually this is just platonism but better,"
Explain the Book of John then.

This is empty rhetoric. If you want to claim I am misunderstanding something, then I would expect you'd be able to verbalize what it is I've misunderstood.

>This is empty rhetoric
So is the garbage you posted. Stop going "you made this? I made this" with traditions that make more sense than yours and also stop larping as a fundamentalist Christian on an anime forum
>b-but
Don't care.

Sounds like you're coping to me.

I assume you are saying heretical from a Christian perspective as I have never seen a Daoist concerned with heresy.

I understand how you could see it as heretical, especially with so many synchronistic heresies floating around. This is different. This is arguing that the philosophy of Lao Tzu can be made more complete through divine revelation. This is similar to the approach Catholic writers took to Aristotle.

>writes two ridiculous tedious posts parodying an eastern religion he doesn't understand to try and convince other people (but really himself) that his silly desert cult stories are true because being an internet Christian is fundamental to this zoomer's sense of identity
>"u cope"
lol. Touch grass kid

>the philosophy of Lao Tzu can be made more complete through divine revelation
t. missed the entire point of the philosophy of Laozi

Christianity is dead in the west so efforts are being made to rejuvenate it by vampirizing more sensible doctrines that westerners are becoming more interested in now that works have been translated

You're a retarded uneducated idiot. The taoin chinese philosophy cannot be fitted to gentile hating rabbi from Palestine no matter how much you larp as a rosicrucian.
And taoism has more divine revelation than jew worshippers can dream of.

I'm not the OP. And yes, it sounds like you're coping (and seething now, too).

I accept your concession, larpzoomer

How?

I haven't conceded anything, since I haven't taken a position. I want to know why the OP makes you seethe. Is there something fundamentally wrong with his approach? If so, surely you'll be able to explain that with sound evidence.

Daoism is gay and retarded. The TRUE proto-christian chinaman philosophy is Confucianism.

Daoism is based. Confucianism is weak respect your elders pussy shit. Daoism is cultivate your dantian and achieve immortality.

Nothing about your impotent kvetching or the OP's pathetic sophistry make me seethe. I called out his incredibly retarded take for what it was and see no reason to spoonfeed you. Cry more about it
>noooooo you need to engage in a pointless debate with me!
Blow it out your ass midwit

You're clearly seething.

Why life if elder die? Broken branch westerner make grandma cry.

Project harder, larpzoomer

I didn't have a position on this earlier. But OP's idea seems cool, and it makes people like you angry, so I think I'll start reposting it for shits and giggles. Couldn't hurt.

There's nothing to be made more complete. If you read the DDJ, Zhuangzi or Liezi and came away with the impression that what you read about was yet another system that could be improved upon via sterile scholastic quibbling and nonsense about insignificant historical events in some Roman backwater, then you completely missed the point

Except you've said nothing of substance that would warrant your claim, so how exactly did you call me out, if you cannot demonstrate your position is true?

>I'll waste my time reposting pointless nonsense on an anime imageboard, that'll show him
lmao
Go get some air

Why?
It would make you angry, and I'll get another (You) from you, so it'll make me satisfied.

>Except you've said nothing of substance
Neither have you, keep coping and seething about it larpzoomer.
>demonstrate
Considering you don't know what Taoism is you might want to start with the DDJ and Zhuangzi, then explore the more practical aspects of the tradition.

>I assume you are saying heretical from a Christian perspective as I have never seen a Daoist concerned with heresy.
isn't the whole point of this book that it presents standard Christianity in the freshness of eastern mystic language, to neutralize the lure of these eastern religions

>you are... le mad
keep projecting your impotent rage onto me if that helps you cope

Religious syncretism fascinates me, but would you be open to saying other religious traditions might be able to claim similar things for themselves as well, or is this just being posted as a Christian apologetic argument?

Islamic scholars have also had a long history of showing how Platonic and Aristotelian philosophies really prefigured Islam, and some would even say that Daoism is a prefigurement of Islam as well. (Not saying I agree with them per se, but I am curious how you view this as any more valid.)
The ideas of Ibn Arabi have been compared to Daoism a lot too.

So how do you take something like the Dao Te Ching and explicitly see a Trinitarian or Christ-centered doctraine in it? Why not just compare the Dao to God in a more general sense?

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Sort of, it takes eastern terminology and twists it to fit conventional Christian theological concepts. It has nothing to do with Taoism and serves as a way to get modern people interested in Christianity by pretending Taoism was actually chink Christianity all along.

It seems you've missed the point of Christianity as it is not a system either, but rather a way of living. To sit and merely learn of the Tao would be a waste of time, as merely learning about it, and not living with it would lead to death.

St. Maximus, in my own tradition, says this in a more Christian way, "Theology without practice is the theology of demons". To sit and theorize or come to a set of ideas is not the point of Christianity and it is not the point of Taoism. They are both about ways of living in the world, it's just one has the benefit of coming from a tradition where the Tao became flesh and dwelt among us, and thus has a more advised approach on how to live in accordance with the Way.

>the salvific incarnation, death, and resurrection of God himself
>insignificant historical event
Hmmm. Also, enough of this "Roman backwater" meme. The Roman Backwater was Western Europe, not the Middle East. Judea was at the heart of rich ancient civilizations. It was right next to Syria, which was probably the richest part of the empire. It was not a backwater. The Roman backwater was Britain and Gaul. And even if Galilee was relatively irrelevant and poor, that only makes all the more powerful the Christian story.

>and explicitly see a Trinitarian or Christ-centered doctraine in it?
By fundamentally misunderstanding the core tenets of Taoism
>Why not just compare the Dao to God in a more general sense?
The Dao isn't God or the Logos or anything of the sort. This is a mistaken equivocation born from projecting western theism onto something completely different

Yeah that's what I was getting at. Then if the goal is to dress Christian doctrine up in this language, I'm sure it can still veer awfully close to Christian heresy, which is a valid concern given the aims of the book. And that the Daoist's conception of heresy is irrelevant in this case because the goal of the book is to present orthodox Christian dogma. That's all I was getting at.

And you've missed the point of Taoism by saying ridiculous nonsense like "the Tao became flesh" and other such things that show you don't actually care to know what Taoism is and, just like the retard below me, your approach towards foreign traditions is tainted with the assumption that they can only be mere simulacra of your perfect revealed truth. You're an idiot and a waste of my time
>the bible is true because it says so in the bible
As always, vacuous and pointless. I'll stop talking to you now

Just shut the fuck up, you stupid Christcuck. If you're interested in Eastern traditions, then just drop Christianity and look to practice those instead.

How does the Dharmakaya or Original Face from Ch'an differ from the Dao?

>one has the benefit of coming from a tradition where the Tao became flesh and dwelt among us,
christlarpers are so insufferable holy shit

>the bible is true because it says so in the bible
I wasn't saying that, that's circular logic.

Refer to the very first sentence of the DDJ

It sounds similar to Absolute in Ch'an.

Yes Chan/Zen was heavily influenced by Daoist apophatism

There's an "Absolute" in Chan? I thought Chan took on the double emptiness of Nagarjuna

I think it was most likely coincidental similarity. Ch'an was developed in Gandhara before being transmitted to China.
I think there are many metaphysical differences (e.g. the role of the storehouse consciousness) but not so much in regards to how the non-dual Absolute is described.

Not him but you're really fucking stupid if this isn't bait

This isn't syncretism, in Christianity this would be called assimilation, essentially baptizing a pagan or secular philosophy into the Christian frameworkor puts Christianity in the framework of the assimilated philosophy. It is distinct from syncretism which blends religions in that assimilating preserves the doctrinal purity of the Christian religion.
It's not that you see Daoism as inherently proto-christian, it's that you see parallels and similarities and you wish to bridge the gap to both baptise, so to speak, Daoism and to incorporate Daoist elements in a way which doesn't change already established doctrine but furthers understanding.
Regarding Islam, there was apparently some great Hui Muslim scholar who did exactly that, bridging the gap between Islamic and Chinese tradition, I don't remember his name right now, though, but it's supposedly very impressive.

No, read The Platform Sutra.
After Huineng, the schools splintered and lineage of patriarchs was disrupted. Platform sutra is the best source of knowledge for Chan beliefs.

I'm well aware of the radical nature of saying the Tao became flesh, just as I am aware of the radical nature of telling Plato or Aristotle that the Logos became flesh.

Just because it is a radical claim that you're incredulous about doesn't mean that it isn't true. I would say it's necessary. Let me ask you this, is it not true that the Way appears to be for one thing to die so that another might live?

The Tao became muh dick.

“I am the way” Jesus

In chingchong
“I am the dao”

Checkmate chingchong seethere

Tao is the way of things, it moves and creates. Dharmakaya is empty, it doesn't do or move anything.

You forgot to write "In Hebrew" above the kike

The Tao isn't the logos. The Tao has nothing to do with some dead cult leader from two millennia ago. It is not necessary, and your ridiculous beliefs have completely rotted your discernment. There's nothing that can be said to you because you're too far gone and will keep twisting things to fit your narrow dogma, completely blind to how mistaken you are
>is it not true that the Way appears to be for one thing to die so that another might live?
No.

>the Dao that can be named is not the eternal Dao.
"I made this" christrannies eternally blown the fuck out
Now let's hear the coping and seething

Here you go, user, in case you were interested. His name was Liu Zhi.

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The Tao is not the absolute in Daoism. Rather the Wuji is: "Wuji refers to a state of non-distinction prior to the differentiation into the Yin and Yang that give birth to the ten-thousand-things-- all the phenomena of the manifest world, with their various qualities and behaviors."

Wuji or Taiji**

>Tao isn't the logos. The Tao has nothing to do with some dead cult leader from two millennia ago.

The Logos is a Hellenic concept that predates Christ my dude. Not sure why you would relate it solely to Jesus, unless of course you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. That's why this post, and every other one you've shared here lacks any actual substance to respond to.
>There's nothing that can be said to you because you're too far gone and will keep twisting things to fit your narrow dogma, completely blind to how mistaken you are

Seems like you're projecting here a little bit my dude.

The Gospels were written in Greek, antisemitic dipshit

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Jesus was still a Jew who spoke Hebrew and was a rabbi.
>Antisemitic dipshit
Antisemitism is based, philosemite garbage.

There's a reason why I separated these two statements, you bumbling retard.
Way to dodge everything I've said, "my dude". You're fucking pathetic

>who spoke Hebrew
He spoke Aramaic. Hebrew, even in Roman times, was relegated to a priestly language in which Jewish scriptures were recorded.
>was a rabbi
He was despised by the Philistines, the ancient Jewish class of "teachers", along the line of modern Rabbis.

Please, please, get information about religion from something that isn't a stormfront infographic. Who knows, you might even learn something and grow spiritually.

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*Pharisees, not Philistines

>was a rabbi.
Rabbi literally meant "teacher" at the time.

Jesus was a reprehensible human being who pointed to his flesh as a source of the sacred whereas Eastern sages pointed to one's original nature as the Absolute.
Jesus was a stupid Jew, and you are likewise a Jew in spirit for worshiping him. I don't give a shit about a narcissistic dirty Jew from Levant. If it were up to me, I would deAbrahamize my country and send the heads of all Christians to the Vatican and the heads of all Muslims to Mecca. Every single last Abrahamist deserves to die

Interesting.
I'm not attacking the idea per se but I guess my question to you would be why do you think "baptizing" Daoism or any other philosophy into the fold of Christendom has any more legitimacy than Liu Zhi doing the same with Confiscionism and Islam?

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None of this changes anything to the fact that christianity and abrahamism as a whole are unnecessary, convoluted nonsense. Take the philosophical Taoism or the Rinzai pill. The rest is worthless

"Tao produces one
One produces two
Two produce three
Three produce myriad things"

This notion can be found in Pythagoras as well. It is a recognition that the Absolute is Triune, and that it is a unity. It is three who together are One, and from the Three all things come.

I remember in my copy of Tao Te Ching saying its Tao that did that.

Don't worry the deabrahamization of the west is happening anyway