Who was this guy? Was he an avatar, a prophet? I understand that his work is based on tradition and not on a new set of ideas, but the way in which he synthesizes all elements belonging to tradition is at least unique. My point is that he is either a minor prophet of universal tradition who got everything right or simply fully wrong, there is no middle way.
Guenon
Hudson Hill
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Jace Watson
he was an opium addicted theosophist hack
he got a ton of stuff wrong, especially on Sufism and Catholicism, and generally just mistook his opium stupors for genuine Hindu insight (never set foot in India but will tell you exactly how things are over there)
Juan James
>Who was this guy?
allow me to fill you in
>Rene Guenon is the most correct, smartest and most important person of the twentieth century. There was no smarter, deeper, clearer, absolute Guenon and probably could not be. It is no coincidence that the French traditionalist René Allé in one collection dedicated to R. Guenon compared Guenon with Marx. It would seem that there are completely different, opposite figures. Guenon is a conservative hyper-traditionalist. Marx is a revolutionary innovator, a radical overthrower of traditions. But Rene Halle rightly guessed the revolutionary message of each of Guenon's statements, the extreme, cruel noncomformity of his position, which turns everything and everything upside down, the radical nature of his thought.
>The fact is that René Guenon is the only author, the only thinker of the twentieth century, and maybe many, many centuries before that, who not only identified and confronted with each other secondary language paradigms, but also put into question the very essence of language. The language of Marxism was methodologically very interesting, subtly reducing the historical existence of mankind to a clear and convincing formula for confronting labor and capital. Being a great paradigmatic success, Marxism was so popular and won the minds of the best intellectuals of the twentieth century. But R. Guenon is an even more fundamental generalization, an even more radical removal of masks, an even broader worldview contestation, putting everything into question.
- Aleksandr Dugin
>Guénon undermined and then; with uncompromising intellectual rigour, demolished all the assumptions taken for granted by modern man, that is to say Western or westernised man. Many others had been critical of the direction taken by European civilization since the so-called 'Renaissance', but none had dared to be as radical as he was or to re-assert with such force the principles and values which Western culture had consigned to the rubbish tip of history. His theme was the 'primordial tradition' or Sofia perennis, expressed-so he maintained-both in ancient mythologies and in the metaphysical doctrine at the root of the great religions. The language of this Tradition was the language of symbolism, and he had no equal in his interpretation of this symbolism. Moreover he turned the idea of human progress upside down, replacing it with the belief almost universal before the modern age, that humanity declines in spiritual excellence with the passage of time and that we are now in the Dark Age which precedes the End, an age in which all the possibilities rejected by earlier cultures have been spewed out into the world, quantity replaces quality and decadence approaches its final limit. No one who read him and understood him could ever be quite the same again.
- Gai Eaton
t. hylic
Camden Powell
>he was an opium addicted theosophist hack
stopped reading right there, I am not interested in disrespectful ramblings
Jace Johnson
>René Guénon defies classification. . . . Were he anything less than a consummate master of lucid argument and forceful expression, his work would certainly be unknown to all but a small, private circle of admirers.”
—Gai Eaton, author of The Richest Vein
>“Guénon established the language of sacred metaphysics with a rigor, a breadth, and an intrinsic certainty such that he compels recognition as a standard of comparison for the twentieth century.”
—Jean Borella, author of Guénonian Esoterism and Christian Mystery
>“To a materialistic society enthralled with the phenomenal universe exclusively, Guénon, taking the Vedanta as point of departure, revealed a metaphysical and cosmological teaching both macrocosmic and microcosmic about the hierarchized degrees of being or states of existence, starting with the Absolute . . . and terminating with our sphere of gross manifestation.”
—Whitall N. Perry, editor of A Treasury of Traditional Wisdom
>“René Guénon was the chief influence in the formation of my own intellectual outlook (quite apart from the question of Orthodox Christianity). . . . It was René Guénon who taught me to seek and love the truth above all else, and to be unsatisfied with anything else.”
—Fr. Seraphim Rose, author of The Soul After Death
>“His mixture of arcane learning, metaphysics, and scathing cultural commentary is a continent in itself, untouched by the polluted tides of modernity. . . . Guénon’s work will not save the world—it is too late for that—but it leaves no reader unchanged.”
—Jocelyn Godwin, author of Mystery Religions in the Ancient World
>“René Guénon is one of the few writers of our time whose work is really of importance. . . . He stands for the primacy of pure metaphysics over all other forms of knowledge, and presents himself as the exponent of a major tradition of thought, predominantly Eastern, but shared in the Middle Ages by the . . . West.”
—Walter Shewring, translator of Homer’s Odyssey
Wyatt Campbell
>“In a world increasingly rife with heresy and pseudo-religion, Guénon had to remind twentieth century man of the need for orthodoxy, which presupposes firstly a Divine Revelation and secondly a Tradition that has handed down with fidelity what Heaven has revealed. He thus restores to orthodoxy its true meaning, rectitude of opinion which compels the intelligent man not only to reject heresy but also to recognize the validity of faiths other than his own if they also are based on the same two principles, Revelation and Tradition.”
—Martin Lings, author of Ancient Beliefs and Modern Superstitions
>“If during the last century or so there has been even some slight revival of awareness in the Western world of what is meant by metaphysics and metaphysical tradition, the credit for it must go above all to Guénon. At a time when the confusion into which modern Western thought had fallen was such that it threatened to obliterate the few remaining traces of genuine spiritual knowledge from the minds and hearts of his contemporaries, Guénon, virtually single-handed, took it upon himself to reaffirm the values and principles which, he recognized, constitute the only sound basis for the living of a human life with dignity and purpose or for the formation of a civilization worthy of the name.”
—Philip Sherrard, author of Christianity: Lineaments of a Sacred Tradition
>“Apart from his amazing flair for expounding pure metaphysical doctrine and his critical acuteness when dealing with the errors of the modern world, Guénon displayed a remarkable insight into things of a cosmological order. . . . He all along stressed the need, side by side with a theoretical grasp of any given doctrine, for its concrete—one can also say its ontological—realization failing which one cannot properly speak of knowledge.”
—Marco Pallis, author of A Buddhist Spectrum
>“Guénon’s mission was two-fold: to reveal the metaphysical roots of the ‘crisis of the modern world’ and to explain the ideas behind the authentic and esoteric teachings that still [remain] alive.”
—Harry Oldmeadow, author of Traditionalism: Religion in the Light of the Perennial Philosophy
Julian Phillips
>dugin
so guenon was a russian psyop all along. at last, i truly see.
Cameron Morales
now say something from your own thoughts
Luke Watson
>Wael Hallaq, scholar of Islamic law and intellectual history, has argued in Restating Orientalism: A Critique of Modern Knowledge (2018) that Guénon’s deep critique of modernity “is gaining enough appeal that it has become recently relevant for many intellectual concerns,” including postcolonial studies and environmental ethics (2018: 144). Hallaq suggests that Guénon offers a more thorough and effective critique of Western modernity than Edward Said (1935–2003) does in Orientalism (1978), arguing that “Guénon begins where Said ends” (2018: 145). Besides noting that Guénon was not discussed by Said, and in fact complicates Said’s concept of Orientalism, Hallaq valorises Guénon as being ‘ahead of his time’ with a prescient diagnosis of Western modernity’s destructive deviation from traditional metaphysics, social norms, and structures. He suggests that Guénon’s work “captures much of the best in recent social theory, Critical Theory, and cultural criticism, but without admitting the legitimacy of the system on which these critical theories insist” (2018: 145). As Sedgwick notes, Hallaq’s “use of Guénon represents a Traditionalist breakthrough into the Western intellectual mainstream”
(Sedgwick 2019).
Owen Lee
When I read Guenon, I feel as though I am in the presence of a kindred soul, one who never loses sight of the highest amidst all the dreariness and emptiness of modern life. He effortlessly takes apart materialism and all the other modern errors, to my great delight, his arguments unfolding with a mathematical precision and slicing through his opponents like a hot knife through butter. I have him to thank for greatly expanding by intellectual horizons and for liberating me from several modern spooks that had been inculcated in me through the modern educational system. I see him as being a kind of informal saint.
Lucas Sullivan
PBUH
Samuel Lopez
wasted digits.
Camden Diaz
>who got everything right or simply fully wrong
is not so much as geting eveyrthing wrong, but is metaphysics is completly outdated, Hegel already debunked all his metaphysical and logical point and exposed how the type of theology Guenon prwach end up leading to a form of tautological sophistry
Ayden Kelly
holy based...
Camden Ortiz
do you or anyone else have a pdf of Sedgwick's book on Traditionalism?
Kevin Cox
That's bullshit ESLanon, Hegel didn't debunk anything. Hegel never read Guenon, and nor did Hegel understand anything about Indian Philosophy. Hegel never read any primary sources and his """critique""" of Indian Philosophy doesn't even distinguish the different schools of Indian Philosophy from each other or identify the schools of Indian Philosophy to which he is referring, if at all. It's impossible to refute something without actually correctly identifying and describing its actual teachings, and Hegel never does this but just attacks a nonsensical strawman that he made up.
What Hegel does is as stupid as if someone tried to lump the entirety of western philosophy together as being all one single system and then tried to offer a general critique of it, it would be total nonsense and the same is true of Hegel's charges.
Parker Cooper
>Hegel already debunked all his metaphysical and logical point and exposed how the type of theology Guenon prwach end up leading to a form of tautological sophistry
how?
Jayden Morales
>outdated
>Hegel
dude... pure metaphysics is eternal, infinite and universal, there is no evolution with regard to such things and metaphysics is to be found only in religion, not philosophical speculation
Brayden Long
It's not linked as a pdf on google but I'm pretty sure you can download it for free on b-ok.cc or libgen
Parker Wilson
send link if you have
Christopher Perez
checked and witnessed
Josiah Barnes
Hegel thought that Indian philosophy was a strain of Schelling-esque pantheism. Which means that Hegel didn't know anything about them.
>tautological sophistry
You mean like Hegel's circular Absolute?
Jose Nelson
Just read Man and His Becoming for the first time a few nights ago. Definitively one of his best works. The explanation of and relative importance of dream states and deep sleep were worth it alone, even though they only comprised a few chapters.
Jose Hall
thanks user
Ian Young
What is his best work?
Brandon Campbell
I just finished reading East & West and it is unbelievable how prophetic it is considering it was written in 1924, especially calling out 'scientism' as if it was written yesterday
But what countries fit his criteria of the 'East' today? All countries in the East more or less have followed the West in its material progress, especially India & China. China has existed longer than any other civilization today so I can only think that it is the only country that fits his criteria, assuming this blip in industrialization is just temporary
John Cruz
>But what countries fit his criteria of the 'East' today?
The closest right now is probably Taliban-ruled Afghanistan desu, they are misunderstood as wahhabis but in reality they are more like Deobandi-influenced "nationalists" who just want to maintain sharia law in Afghan territory and mind their own business, many Taliban rank and file are sufis.
Bhutan is also still pretty Trad. Iran has a government that is sort of a compromise between an Islamic government and modernity. In India even though the city culture is westernized there are still various traditional communities in rural areas, and there are still plenty of temples filled with monks following the exact same lifestyles of learning spiritual doctrines, preaching to attendees, practicing yoga and meditation etc as they have been doing for centuries, the lifestyle of Hindu monks is basically unchanged except for that roaming people who knock on strangers doors for alms is less common than the medieval era (although it still occurs in some areas).
It's important to recognize a difference between the ruling structures of government and the actual lifestyle and attitudes of the population. Pakistan for example has a totally westernized government but also has large stretches of rural areas where people still live the same traditional Islamic lifestyles that they have for centuries, but with some modern amenities.
Daniel Russell
Biggest waste in all my years on Yea Forums.
Isaiah Sanchez
>But what countries fit his criteria of the 'East' today?
Some of Guénon's observations concerning social criticism should be updated, like he would have done if he lived today. Still, he wrote that there were even back then westernized easterners, therefore the vast majority of easterners today are simply more or less westernized, and Guénon explicitly mentioned that by East he means the traditional east, which today has become a minority. In fact, he also wrote later in his life that the rectification of the West is becoming less probable and so do the ideas suggested by him in this regard, but there is nothing contradictory in all of this, the course of the Kali Yuga changes very fast during its final stanges and so should our observations concering temporal matters, we need to keep our eyes open and be realistic, a rectification of both east and west, using the tools of this Manvantara has become almost impossible.
Chase Collins
it should make you think and take the shahada
Angel Collins
Checked, witnessed; we're all Guenon-fegs now
Isaiah Parker
Double checked and registered in the Book of Kek
Landon Carter
Checked
>Hegel btfo
Jackson King
Checked
Checked and Hegel btfo
Carter Gomez
Same.
Jaxon Howard
>his work is based on tradition
Nope just 19th century occultism.
Chase Scott
>disrespectful
Respect is something you have to earn buddy.
Brandon Morgan
>compared Guenon with Marx
Only a jewy lefty type would bother with either men.
James Allen
You are just quoting a bunch of nobodies part of your circlejerling cult. The quotes also sau nothing
Oliver Collins
You have never read Hegel.
Isaiah Martinez
>Respect is something you have to earn buddy.
Guénon earned the respect of relevant traditional authorities (Ramana Maharshi and other advaitins, local sufis which greeted him as he was a wali, etc.), your respect on the other hand is irrelevant
Lucas Reyes
And thats why you people will one day go into some concentration camp, you are just to smug and self rightious to respect people with different views. You people are worse the Jews.
Cameron James
>picked up Reign of Quantity after seeing this man regularly mentioned here
>the entire opening is a diatribe on how wrong Western society and great thinkers are/were wrong about this that and the other thing
>gives no evidence - simply states they are wrong bases all proceeding arguments based on the first claims
I dropped it a little into the second chapter. He seems to have tried laying out his argument like Aristotle, but unlike him Guenon just asserts a thing and bases his argument on it. Aristotle asserts a thing first too, but he distills it to its very fundamentals and does not make any unsupported, sweeping claim out of it
Joshua Powell
All his books build off his previous ones, the topics in Reign of Quantity directly relate to the arguments he lays out earlier in East & West and Crisis of the Modern World
Brayden Barnes
He outlines a clear path for knowledge seekers to take in his works.
I agree with you that he does not have the rigor of thinkers such as Aristotle, however, this is a necessity for Guenon, as what he is teaching is beyond what is seen as contemporary academic discourse, in content and especially form.
The path which he outlines is one of metaphysical and inner experience, and thus the only way to truly understand his teaching is to experience it, otherwise it is as you said: claims. His standard for evidence supporting his claims are, in actuality, much higher than the sophistical and purposely obscure modern thinkers, as they are grounded in a self evident form of experience which defies characterization.
This is the challenge with Guenon, as his claims rest on the need to experience them, which is a process that his critics will never undertake, and thus they cannot properly engage with him.
Joshua Kelly
Based Guenon worshipper
John Fisher
I kneel...
Noah Allen
>The path which he outlines is one of metaphysical and inner experience, and thus the only way to truly understand his teaching is to experience it
but when he wrote thos ebooks he wasn't initiated, thus he didn't experience the thing you need experience to understand, most of his books deal with this problem, an unitiated man trying to establish the fundaments of initiation
Eli Collins
>considering it was written in 1924, especially calling out 'scientism' as if it was written yesterday
dude people where critical of scientism centuries ago, you can read voltaire's critics to positivism like it was written yesterday
Heidegger did a much more deep and useful criticism to industrialsiation and positivism than Genon and both where contemporaries
Juan Rogers
Why the long face?
Nathaniel Nguyen
Truly a "Who's That" of esoteric philosophy.
Easton Gray
Materialist bros... we lost...
Gavin Torres
dugin lauding someone is the opposite of a good thing...
David Fisher
Hylics will say wasted
Hyperboreans will say based
Austin Howard
> but when he wrote thos ebooks he wasn't initiated,
Incorrect, before he had published any of his books he had been initiated into both Taoism by some Frenchman who had traveled to Vietnam and he also had been initiated into the Shadhili Sufi order by Ivan Agueli. Both of these were a number of years before his first book, which Sedgewick notes in his book. Guenon later received a second initiation into a different branch of the same Sufi order once he moved to Egypt.
>an unitiated man trying to establish the fundaments of initiation
ok retard
Adam Scott
There is no possible way that you could back up o justify that statement, and by saying that you have revealed yourself as dishonest.
Lucas Cruz
Retroactively refuted
Tyler Johnson
mashallah
Eli Jenkins
>those digits
unironically starting Guenon because of this post
what book should I begin with bros?
Henry Jenkins
> what book should I begin with bros?
His first book, ‘Introduction to the Study of the Hindu Doctrines’, it’s not as amazing as his later works but it does help greatly in understanding them, he gives some systematic definitions of how he understands certain terms that get repeated often. Its a good idea to read his books more or less chronologically. The books on Theosophy and the Spiritualist Fallacy are good but you can skip them and come back to them later if you want to get to his main writing on modernity and metaphysics quicker.
Kayden Carter
luckily, that's the only book of his I physically own
what should I read after? is pic related any good?
Liam Cruz
Years of thrashing Guenon for nothing, but oh well
I kneel