How do we make Giorno an actual good character?

FUCK YOU! BIG CHUNGUS IS STILL FUNNY

>acting as if people really think Jotaro is a good character

>chaotic neutral with moral conflicts
or
>neutral evil becoming the final boss at the end

Stronger emphasis on being both DIO and Jonathan's son. His Brando ruthlessness and ambition conflicting with his Joestar moral compass.

His character had an interesting premise, but then he turned out to be a boring Gary-Stu who was just a plot convenience whenever the story needed him.

Holy fucking based

yikes dude

This, when I found out Giorno was the son of DIO I expected him to be some sort of anti-hero (him being a gangster doesn’t count) but then pure disappointment.

LOL DUDE i am crying your so funny

Stop making everyone dumb around him so that he isn't always the one making microscopically perfect bullshit predictions

diavolo death #41754

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You must be over 18 to post on this board.

by deleting him

Basically you either start reading or watching part 5 and that's it.

I was hoping that Giorno was a bitter person from the start of the series, after all, he is the son of Dio and that the dude probably walked out on his mother after he was conceived. I get that one of or his sole motivation is for kids to not get into drugs but to me it kinda came out of nowhere. I think there should’ve been a prelude of the series about Giorno having a fucked up childhood and his mom using drugs to cope with their shitty life, Giorno wanting revenge after his father then knowing that his father his died (at least as far as I know) he gives up his search and tries to help his mother. At the end of the series his mom dies due to overdose and he sees drug dealers under the MA and vows to stop it. I know this is shitty fanfic tier but I rather not have ‘because I’m a nice guy.’ I haven’t seen the rest of the episodes (I stopped after the fight against the ice stand user) so I could be wrong.

He was fine as he is since Bruno was the actual main character who moved the plot forward while GoGo was a sidecharacter like Mista

At least his father had a fucking personality

Reddit moment.

The state of VA tourists

> The only interesting character in part 5 is Abbacchio
Well, I guess even a male tsudnere is a character when you have total nobodies in the main cast who got little bits of characterisation in the restaurant flashbacks.

Retarded boomers/underagefags not seeing through the obvious satire by the sole mention of big chungus

>obvious satire
It's more like Poe's law here

He should have used GER to retroactively erase himself and part 5.

Even if you rewrite Giorno the whole thing is still an unsalvageable mess
>a bunch of tragic homos join the mafia then betray it to "save the princess", because they are that much of being goody two shoes moralfags

Completely rewritten so Bruno isn't accidently the main and objectively best character.

here's some gold!
Don't spend it all in one place!

The whole drug plot is honestly completely unnecessary and just plain lazy, you have this interesting premise of a criminal organization using stands and then boil it down to the most basic mafia trade(which isn't even relevant after the beginning mind you), it's so unimaginative and Araki just shoved it in because he watched The Godfather the day before. And then again with Giorno himself, great concept but complete nothing execution. At least he showed some hints of interesting personality at the beginning but that quickly evaporates and the backstory was already a mess (the whole half-Japanese thing is so retarded) and his relation to Dio is treated like some throwaway fanservice reference and nothing more. You introduce the guy as this dubious criminal and then a few pages later another character just spells out to the audience that he's a noble perfect good-guy no more questions needed. I like my silliness in JoJo, but part 5 is just plain retarded and took itself too seriously. Real shame about the potential.

I honestly don't know if you can. The point was that Giorno was one big Jesus metaphor, so him acting so blandly perfect and calm fit that mold. The real question for me is if you can take his idea of a Jesus metaphor and make it dramatically engaging as a character, and my personal answer is no. The Jesus trope is about a static character that perseveres against a malicious world, so it's more about plot events than character development (again, we're talking about Giorno himself, not the other characters of Part 5).

I can't really think of a way to make Giorno's character development have better emotional weight. I assume that's why Bucciarati, as deuteragonist, filled this role. Araki DID have a central character carry bigger emotinal weight in one deuteragonist, but at the same time got his Jesus metaphor through the other deuteragoonist.

epic bait lol

>All the people falling for this bait
good job user

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I'm pretty sure the religious symbolism in Jojo is just there because Araki thought it would look cool, not because there's any meaning behind it.

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Make Buccerati a Joestar instead.

How much better would the story have been if Cioccolata was replaced with Fugo?

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He just uses sculptures and models as reference images when drawing

I think that's what Araki originally intended but realized last minute sort of thing he could get the Purple Haze novel out of Fugo so created Cioccolata instead.

It would be worse. Instead of a new character with a unique power and backstory leading to an interesting fight, we would just have Fugo again. Giorno is immune to the virus so there wouldn't be any fight, just an instant curbstomp after some painfully cringey forced drama. Also Secco would be cut so we're actually losing two fights. It also ruins Fugo, so this change would result in a net loss of three characters from the story overall.

So many things wrong with this post

>it's ok because it's ironic
Go back.

I feel like it'd make for a genuinely tragic moment of "fear and loyalty vs ambition and justice" in JoJo's that hasn't really come up in the series thus far (IIRC).

Obviously, we'd probably lose the Cioccolata and Secco relationship that made that fight a tad more memorable ... but I think it could be interesting to see how Fugo tries to counteract Gold Experience and the rest of Buccellati's team's abilities.

It's also retarded when uneducated plebs invoke the Pietà reference as somehow proof of Giorno's Jesus status when it literally puts Mista in that position instead. Araki just drew it because he likes the aesthetic of Renaissance sculptures.

Are there any other Jesus figures I should know about?

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>Jesus good, Satan bad. Be a good obedient Christian or you'll go to hell.
That's basically what the "symbolism" in Part 5 boils down to.

I agree that its mostly aesthetic, but that doesn't mean Araki didn't go for it. Giorno is the "incorruptable" Gary Stu son of Dio, fighting a Diavolo, who is defeated and condemned to eternal suffering. Giorno is a righteous outsider who becomes the leader to a group of morally jaded criminals, wants to free his society from the influences of the morally corrupt, and inspires others to fight for a just cause and find closure and peace with their lives. And then there's all the visual symbollism.

If you ask me what the bigger idea was for Araki to have Part 5 be a Jesus allegory, I can't tell you if it amounts to anything more on a thematic level. Part 5 isn't about Christian themes, and is almost entirely about the concepts of fatalism (not the type that religion focuses on, mind you) and also the "group that cooperates for a greater good" (Team Bucciarati) vs. "the individual that uses others, and those focused on personal gain" (Diavolo and the rest of Passione).

I agree that Part 5 doesn't have anything deep in its Christian metaphor, but Araki did nontheless go for it. That's why I feel it's fair to judge Giorno for being a Christ figure, which is why I make the case for

You literally just give him more to do or say on a situation. Part 5 became the Bruno show with the amount of fights he got.

Araki's imagination just waned with Giorno and he probably struggled to define his powers through basic animosity and combat given his ability is to literally create life from nothing.

Yeah but Bruno though.

>and is almost entirely about the concepts of fatalism (not the type that religion focuses on, mind you)
Araki does tie fatalism into his moral teachings.

But like a lot of people have already pointed out, Araki doesn't only use Jesus symbolism for Giorno. It's thrown around so haphazardly that I find it hard to believe it was intentional. Most of the other stuff you listed are just generic MC qualities.

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Does he act like Dio at all other than the times he says wwwrrrrryyy and muda?

But it's not the fatalism of an afterlife, it's the fatalism that "fate chose Diavolo to rule", "fate is simply inescapable, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try anyways (Rolling Stone)".

You're right that it's everywhere in JoJo, but I argue that Part 5's plot structure was more based on the idea, whereas other parts use it as visual flare.
>Most of the other stuff you listed are just generic MC qualities
Right, but that really only works with Jonathan, and even then Jonathan had more of a personal grudge against Dio rather than concern for society as a whole. Joseph doesn't care much about changing society as he just wants to stop the Pillar Men. Jotaro is only there to save his mom and the majority of his crew fight out of a vendetta/fear of Dio. Josuke is carefree and wants to free his town from a serial killer (not change the system and function of society as a whole), etc. I'd argue that Giorno is the only one that's intentionally written with Jesus symbolism as a primary goal.

And it should come as no surprise that the modern "generic" protagonist share traits with the tropes of ancient stories. That doesn't mean that they can't be used to write an intentional (but somewhat vapid) Jesus metaphor.

No, unless you want to count general traits that could be applied to 90% of characters.

I'm talking about Part 5 in particular, there's the image I posted where Mista is drawn like Jesus in the sculpture, and Scolippi who literally has the crown of thorns and stigmata on his hands. All Giorno has going for him is that his father happens to have a name that means God, and that he heals people I guess (though that's not even unique to him in the series).

Sorry, I misunderstood.

Concerning that, I'd argue that everything was caked in Christian imagery on a visual level, but in terms of characterization, Giorno was the only one to be written with a Jesus personality in mind. Mista posed like the Jesus of Pieta, Scolippi having a crown of thorns and holes in both hands, even Narancia (admittedly in Giorno's body) dying while posed like on a crucifix, all do count as Jesus imagery for multiple character - you are right that using visual imagery alone isn't good enough to draw my conclusion. But beyond the visual imagery, when looking at the personality of characters, I argue that Giorno is the only one whose personal traits are written closer to a Jesus figure than anyone else in Part 5, or the entirety of JoJo (outside of Part 7).

>But it's not the fatalism of an afterlife, it's the fatalism that "fate chose Diavolo to rule", "fate is simply inescapable, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try anyways (Rolling Stone)".
But in the end they do change fate with GER, because true fate is walking the path of justice.

>Giorno is the "incorruptable" Gary Stu son of Dio, fighting a Diavolo, who is defeated and condemned to eternal suffering. Giorno is a righteous outsider who becomes the leader to a group of morally jaded criminals, wants to free his society from the influences of the morally corrupt
This is all directly contradicted by the fact that he begins as a petty criminal and then remains in charge of a massive criminal organization in the end. The story acts completely oblivious to this fact.

He never proves himself as a leader to the group either, characters just sporadically spurt out that he ''inspires them'' or whatever to give you the illusion that he's doing something but none of these fuckers have any time to bond or even work effectively as a group even with Bruno at the helm, they just stumble conveniently into everything and most of the time Araki is separating them or making them retarded because he doesn't know how to handle multiple characters at once.

And also just because Araki ''went for something'' doesn't mean he implemented it in any decent way.

The problem is that gangsters killing other gangsters to take over their territory is not justice.

We might just have to agree to disagree on that aspect then since I do not see Giorno's character as being close to Jesus.

I'd argue that overcoming fate WASN'T the idea of GER. GER mainly proves that Diavolo was wrong in his assumption that Fate chose him to rule (that people cannot know their fate). I'd argue that it's moreso that fate chose Giorno to rule - that's why we have Sleeping Slaves come at the end of Part 5, to enforce the idea that no matter how hard people try to escape or determine their own fate, they are always bound to it, even then they believe that they have overcome it.

I never said that Part 5 was implemented in a meaningful way. That being said:
>he begins as a petty criminal and then remains in charge of a massive criminal organization in the end. The story acts completely oblivious to this fact.
Giorno is in charge of a criminal organization (by our standards, that's enforcing a bad influence on society, but by Giorno and Part 5's standards, that's Giorno's way of enforcing good on his society). Afterall, it's shown many times that even the morally good institutions of police and politicans are corrupt in Italy, and only the "Gang+star" figures like the one gangster that inspired Giorno, are the only good arbiters of justice.

>I never said that Part 5 was implemented in a meaningful way.
Yeah he Gary Stu's his way into that role. But like it or not, he does do exactly that. Again, I never said it was handled especially well

>And also just because Araki ''went for something'' doesn't mean he implemented it in any decent way.
Right. But he still does go for it, and I'd argue it's a prevailing idea, despite its execution.

Fair.

Instead of talking about Gary Stu Giorno how about we talk about if in Part 9 Diavolo falls out of the deathloop into a dumpster and becomes a JoBro

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>GER mainly proves that Diavolo was wrong in his assumption that Fate chose him to rule
Isn't that kind of shitty writing on Araki's part, since he's the one who tells us that Epitaph's predictions are absolute? It's one thing for a character to be wrong, but explanations of powers given outside of the story shouldn't be lies.

We see the police being bad, but we don't see the gang being good.

Araki doesn't actually make that claim, it's Diavolo who claims that Epitaph's predictions are absolute, in the same way he assumes that fate chose him to rule. He's wrong on both accounts, which is consistent with his conceit. I don't think that's particularly shitty writing.

>we don't see the gang being good.
That's what Giorno and Bruno (and to an extent, the namless gangster that inspired Giorno to be a Gang-Star) try to do. The point of part 5 is that they outright rebel against Passione for it's corruption, it makes sense that the mafia isn't good until Giorno can lead it to his vision.

>I'd argue that it's moreso that fate chose Giorno to rule
That still works with the "true fate" concept and Giorno's divine right.

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Maybe I should be more specific. We don't see Bruno and Giorno being good. The vision you're talking about isn't actually in the story.

Scolippi has to be the most forgettable stand user in Jojo

We see the police being bad because Giorno bribes them with drugs.

Good point. Giorno actively participates in the corruption and uses it to commit crimes against innocent tourists.

In that case, let me phrase it this way. Originally, Italy was corrupt on all levels (Gang's provided drugs to children, the police were largely bought out, politicians were powerless and easily assasinated). Giorno and Bruno offer a less corrupt version - mainly focusing on the drug idea. Whether the original or alternative is "objectively good", I can't say, but I think it's reasonable to say that Giorno's version is "more good" than the original.

>Giorno killing Polpo
>Giorno not killing Koichi because he held back against him
>Giorno saving Fugo and risking his life even though Abbachio told him to leave him behind
>Bruno feeling sad about the kid that did drugs
>Bruno helping the old lady with her child that beats her
>Bruno given the yacht for free because everybody trusts him
>Bruno not killing Doppio when Secco holds him hostage
>Abbachio giving the soccer ball back to Doppio and the tourists
>Mista saving a random girl from her rapist even though he went to jail for it
>Giorno, Bruno, and Narancia all protecting Trish for no reason
retard

Epitaph is explained in one of those infoboxes.

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>Afterall, it's shown many times that even the morally good institutions of police and politicans are corrupt in Italy, and only the "Gang+star" figures like the one gangster that inspired Giorno, are the only good arbiters of justice.
Right, because a ''good arbiter of justice'' is a criminal who threatened locals into giving some kid he liked special treatment. And just because the official institutions are corrupt(infiltrated and bribed by the mafia no doubt) that doesn't mean you should hand over control to the criminal empire. Giorno's not turning Passione into a charity, they will keep on doing illegal harmful shit that is the core of such an organization, oh but just no kiddie drugs this time around, what a righteous guy.
>by Giorno and Part 5's standards, that's Giorno's way of enforcing good on his society
This isn't excused in any meaningful way in this universe or story, just because Giorno says things it doesn't change the fact that he's a hypocrite and the story is contradicting itself at every turn.

>oh sweet Koichi, this should be fun!
>...

...

Why did they change gironos suit color

Shit art direction

change the hair & clothes for starters

Just rename Narancia and have the story follow him from when he first gets introduced.

>remove the only iconic parts of the character

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