Dragon Ball Super

He is, against the MC

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>Bulma's belly
HMMMMMMM

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>Plagueshit
Gentlemen...

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Piccolo's power up soon

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ENTER THE CHADS TROOPERS

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>Goku will master UI
>Vegeta will create its equivalent technique
It's official, by the end of this arc Beerus will be weaker than both, Goku and Vegeta.

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This. Besides Goku vs Vegeta and Vegeta's sacrifice, it was all pure shit.
Time to debunk this
>•Goku and Gohan do nothing the entire arc.
They were saved for last and were the only participants of the tourtamen besides Mr. Satan. Also Gohan killed Cell
>•Everyone is completely useless in battle and complicated nothing.
Not true, not even close.
>•Pointless Transformations that achieved nothing. Piccolo, Vegeta, Trunks, and Goku.
Again not true
Piccolos transformation allowed him to shit on bug cell and made him equal to android 17
Vegeta made semi cell job
Trunks shat on frieza
Goku fought on the same level as perfect cell
>•No good fights outside Goku&Cell and Piccolo&17.
Same thing with buu arc. Only good fights were Goku&Vegeta and Gohan&Buu. Others were Spopovich vs Videl tier.
>•17 & 18 do nothing
They shit on everyone at the start and are the main villains untill Cell shows up. Also if you think 18 did nothing just look at OP's picture.
>•Plot holes destroy everything about cell.
Name two plot holes
>•Vegetas character regresses 100% by completely repeating the same mistakes
youtu.be/zU507eDdWXk
>•Gohan is somehow the hero even though he did nothing and was gone the entire story.
He killed Cell (aka the main villain). That alone makes him the hero of the story
Continuing in the next post

Continuing
>•History of Trunks get made because nobody believes in 17&18. Damage control.
18's destruction of vegeta was enough to make them believable.
>•Cell wastes his time creating and setting up a ring only to destroy it and make everything generic desert fight.
Entire buu saga was a fucking desert fight, also him breaking the ring was done in character, so no time was wasted. It also makes sense for a tourtament to have a ring don't you think
>•Cell has no personality after transforming.
Not true, he becomes even more of a character when he achieves perfection
>•DragonTeam are 100 jobbers that sit in the crowd and watch everything but waste time training and calling themselves warriors. Pathetic.
Not true
Piccolo fought with android 17 and bug cell
Tien and Vegeta fought with semi Cell
Others helped gohan with his kamehameha against cell
>•Gohan regresses as a character too. Was willing to fight Freeza and Gero but pussies out on Cell.
He was always a pussy, only in his fight with cell he became a man
Conclusion: you either have shit memory or you are trying to bait people. If the latter is the case then good job, you got a (you)

MY ARM !!

AAIIIEEE

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How does this work for them, anyways? Do they add powers together or does it become a magnitude increase or what?

I reallly wish they've gotten some alternative galatic patrol clothes. Like Goku getting a gi with their color scheme and Vegeta just using their regular armor

Is it true Cell hasn't come back because he's hard to draw

The movie and anime are more canon in the early parts, because they have more in common with each other than the anime and Tori has written the script for the movie.

I also like to add, that you're now not taking into account that the Hakai can even disintegrate souls. It does not blow shit up as you're unrightfully thinking. This points towards a particular form of energy. Energy which would disintegrate the floor when left unchecked like when Beerus and Champa had their little scuffle prior to the U6 tournament

>It's official, by the end of this arc Beerus will be weaker than both, Goku and Vegeta.
nah? Beerus hasnt been seen at 100% yet. Last time Vegeta fought Beerus, Vegeta was able to land some hits but he was still outclassed. Just because Beerus doesnt know how to master UI doesnt mean he doesnt know how to use it, Whis alluded to this.

Why does this shot look like shit? Which Funi disc is this?

It seems to be a multiplier, since Nail was weaker than Piccolo and yet he gained a really big boost from the fusion, same thing when the fusion with Kami happened

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*because they have more in common with each other than with the manga and Tori has written the script for the movie.

filename

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I CAN WIN. I. CAN. DO. THIS.

>The movie and anime are more canon in the early parts
dropped here

youtube.com/watch?v=3V5VaKLA3fQ

TWO wins agains TardKu and brilliant tacticts. GOAT

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Whis said Goku and Vegeta could beat Beerus if they mastered UI
Beerus < Ultra Instinct Goku =/= Ultra Spirit Vegeta

>he's invincible
FTFY

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Straight up lie, the only movie that is not straight up canon to the manga is battle of gods, and even the anime retconned stuff from that movie

Canon ranking of characters' intelligence

Untouchable tier
>PHILOSOPHYren the Scholar

Genius tier
>SMARThan
>BRILLIANTgeta
>Bulma
>Whis
>CHADmasu

High tier
>Tenshinhan
>EMPERORza
>Beerus
>Trunks
>CHADccolo
Meh tier
>Yamcha
>Satan
>Krillin
>17 and 18

Fucking retard tier
>Tardku
>Buu
>inCell
>sHit
>Gowasu
>Shin

Only alive technically tier
>Copely

>Ultra Spirit Vegeta
Is this the new "Attack UI" spic headcanon? Why the fuck are you taco-sucking Mexican abortions like this? Your whole fucking country should be nuked until it's glass.

>Jobrentard post
Now what am I gonna to do with this post? That's right, discard and hide it.

That just makes you a duck, because you're ducking the debate.
Shit, I should have used a language you'd understand.
How about "Quack, quack, quack quack", faggot?

Who claims that the manga is the ultimate canon?
The only canon is in the drafts Toriyama sends to Toei and Toyo.
So, we view the three media (movie, anime and manga) through this lens.
Dragonball Z:BotG was written by Tori, he came up with the movie's story and character designs.
This means that he attributed more than the usual diddles he hands out to toei and Toyo.

This movie has more in common with the anime than it has with the manga (cope).
You're thinking that an manga only arc means that the manga is the canon, right?
Fucking retarded, you get a finger and you take the entire arm.
The movies would be more canon by that logic, because it serves to tie the arcs of manga together, but also the arcs of the anime (despite two of the movies being made into arcs for the anime).

Cope

Piccolo is not smarter than Trunks?
Vegeta acknowledge that Goku was a fighting genius, but yah Goku is pretty dumb.
Bulma is smarter than Vegeta and Gohan, fuck we dont know what type of scholar Gohan is.
Whis/Zamasu technically are top tier.
Jiren? I mean we dont know enough about the guy to make this intelligence call.

HOLY BASED

>Meh tier
>Satan
The guy literally managed to convince the entire planet that he saved it from Cell and from a God of Destruction. I think he is above meh tier

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RENCHAD CHADCHAD ENCHAD THE BASED

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...

AAAAAGGGGH NO WAIT BURORY-SAMA, FORGIVE ME! AAAIIIIIEEEE MY BACK!

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BASED

cope

>bulma training
She'd just create a machine or weight lost pill or something. She already has the dragon radar she would literally just make a wish.

Enter Weakren's worst nightmare

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I... I like Dragon Ball Super.

I like Son Goku.

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THIS IS AMAZING
I'M HOME MY EYES ARE WIDE OPEN

Booooo no one likes you booooo

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...

This is true.

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She only exist to be Jiren's cocksleeve.

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>ogling other people's husbands
Unbecoming of a mere sex bot.

>fed her to a bug
Harsh rejection, too. Didn't even see fit to finish her in a revenge match.

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Did Vegeta and 18 ever have any real interactions after this? You'd think that with Vegeta's ego, he'd demand a rematch to prove his superiority.

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>wanted to see the raven hair so badly
She had it bad.

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@193540406
CHADren vs Super Saiyan Goku
>Not even moving, just using his eyes to deflect his blows (youtu.be/1LFyNYF1vac)
COPEly vs base Vegeta
>Gets thrown around like a ragdoll, can't even escape his grip (youtu.be/A9kEJo2Z9Cw)
Just a tip for you mr. Zombie, instead of posting the same debunked bait for the 8000th time, you should wait for the Spanish Brolyposter from yesterday to come and speak because unlike you he has a functioning brain capable of thinking

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Galatic patrol>>>>Fag troopers

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>That pic.
So much soul.

>fighting genius
>manages to lose with notable advantages more than once
>still using trash moves
>doesn't make his own
>hardly improves what he gets

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>so much onions
ftfy

He going to job to his own form (again)? Blow out his back or just get punched out of it or whatever?

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He just didn't seem to give a shit (at all). Even after she was spat up, covered in goo and in the arms of the little man, he didn't see fit to just kill her (could have gone down like Recoome, but right up the snatch, instead).

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They're both shit.

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The Jobgetatard has lost it.

Discuss the canon Dragon Ball Super chadnga written by Chadyotaro and overseen (and approved) by GODiyama.

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Someone has to give Trunks Sex Ed. lessons.

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Enter Bejita's doctor

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Based

>lost it
Count? I haven't. In case others have...

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Enter TsundereKu

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Don’t ask me how I fucked that one up

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yes they did

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Built for BGC

>Entire buu saga was a fucking desert fight, also
·Lookout is a desert?
·The Ocean is a desert?
·Kai Planet is desert?
·Time Chamber is a desert?

>Not true, he becomes even more of a character when he achieves perfection
How?

>Same thing with buu arc. Only good fights were Goku&Vegeta and Gohan&Buu. Others were Spopovich vs Videl tier.
·Goku v Kid Buu
·Vegito vs Buuhan
·Gohan v Debura
·Gotanks vs Super Buu

They shit on everyone at the start and are the main villains untill Cell shows up. Also if you think 18 did nothing just look at OP's picture.
You skipped the part where they only killed Gero and attacked when everyone attacked them and let them all live.

>He killed Cell (aka the main villain). That alone makes him the hero of the story.
He did nothing the entire time you dipshit. That would be like Yamcha coming outta nowhere and killing Freeza during the Namek saga. Based on your logic

>Not true
Piccolo fought with android 17 and bug cell
Tien and Vegeta fought with semi Cell
Others helped gohan with his kamehameha against cell
And what did any of that complish? And how long did it take any of that to happen?
>Name two plot holes
·Cells regeneration and time travel period.
·
Plus bullma knowing where Gero was despite wanted to use the Dragon to find his location.

This

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>How?

Have you seen this?

youtube.com/watch?v=UDwSwK9DZsw

youtube.com/watch?v=mvmKI39Bigc

He WAS and STILL IS quite different from Frieza and Boo

>Not truePiccolo fought with android 17 and bug cellTien and Vegeta fought with semi CellOthers helped gohan with his kamehameha against cell

So who did they kill with those forms? And did they destory Cell?

So he is Vegeta is what you are saying?

No, Vegeta does NOT have his gentleman'ly charm.

what the fuck is this?

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El tataranieto de Roshi, the strongest human.

18 cucking Krillin for Vegeta is canon?

Vegeta will never cuck Bulma.

>·Lookout is a desert?
>·The Ocean is a desert?
>·Kai Planet is desert?
>·Time Chamber is a desert?
Didn't mean it quite literally. I meant it as a fight with no rules in the middle of nowhere. Also a lot of the fights were quite literally on a desert
>>Not true, he becomes even more of a character when he achieves perfection
>How?
Before that he was just a bug seeking to absorb people, when he became Perfect he actually got a personality.
>·Goku v Kid Buu
Shit battle, they were biting each other and it was inconsistent. At one moment ss3 goku is barely keeping up, and at another base vegeta is keeping up with ease.
·Vegito vs Buuhan
I forgot about that one, my mistake.
·Gohan v Debura
Shit.
·Gotanks vs Super Buu
Also shit. It was just "let's see how many wacky new techniques we can invent untill we run out of time"
>You skipped the part where they only killed Gero and attacked when everyone attacked them and let them all live.
That + everything i said before. That togheter is actually something. You claimed that they did nothing.
>He did nothing the entire time you dipshit. That would be like Yamcha coming outta nowhere and killing Freeza during the Namek saga. Based on your logic
Well if Yamcha was hyped up as the character with most potential since he was a child and trained for i forgot how many years with Goku in a time chamber, and if he had the ability to ascend past a super saiyan than it would make complete sense.
>And what did any of that complish? And how long did it take any of that to happen?
What a dumb statement. What did Everyone except Goku fighting Buu accomplish. By your logic it accomplished nothing since they failed. Please shut the fuck up
>Cells regeneration and time travel period.
>Plus bullma knowing where Gero was despite wanted to use the Dragon to find his location
Fair enough, but any time travel shit always leaves plot holes

>surpassed Goku a number of times
>still behaves like a massive fucking crybaby every time Goku gets a temporary edge over him

What's his problem? He can catch up easily.

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As long as Bulma keeps using the Dragon Balls to stay young

>base vegeta is keeping up with ease.
Holy headcanon.

>>surpassed Goku a number of times
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

wat wos it?

Damn it feels good to be a GokuChad.

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I don't know about all that, but Emperor Huriza-sama is undefeated against the prince of jobbers.

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Why do so many fan artists draw manga UI Goku hair onto anime Goku's body? Shit is weird.

>has a bad memory
>claims that something is headcanon because he can't remember it
youtu.be/92R8GO7ungo
1:30
I accept your concession

You are saying that like it's something impressive
Ofcourse the emperor will be stronger than his subjects that he rules over. He also destroyed his planet and almost his entire race, and that was all after subjegated his people and humiliated their king (vegeta's father). Also Vegeta even knew that but he still served his Emperor and he still got killed by him.

PS: Look at his face in that picture, you can see that he is enjoying this pain and humiliation. What a masochist

lol

youtube.com/watch?v=58Cycgg2xHw
I guess

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I'm hard now.

Gohan Negro (forma de Heihachi)

youtu.be/gE9SVwqMg2Y?t=48

>anime filler
>even then, vegeta is getting his ass kicked
Give me that concession, it's mine.

Hey Kakarrot, you know what the difference is between you and me? I make this look good.

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I think you are rather based.

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>talks about anime the whole time
>loses the argument
>claims headcanon
>gets proven wrong with video evidence
>B-but it was all actually anime filler and not canon. Don't you know that I choose what is canon and what is not
You know what. You don even deserve to have your concession accepted by me, but since i am so generous i will accept it but just this once

Well you can't argue with that desu

I love DBGT.

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God that's humiliating.
If Vegeta wasn't a masochist before this, he became one after that

Based down syndrome huh

>talks about anime the whole time
When? Also, i'm not that guy lol.
>implying that the anime is canon
Cringe.

who?

Low quality spam.

>dbz anime isn't canon
This is your average mangafag. Just screeching about muh canon muh non-canon without even reading what you said. Why don't you fags create a separate thread where you talk about your irrelevant comic books and just leave the rest of us alone
>Also, i'm not that guy.
I just can't believe that you saw two guys talk about the anime and decided to interject with "headcanon" and "anime isn't canon". Who the fuck asked you anything. You add nothing to the discussion except low quality spam. Actually don't create a separate thread, just kill yourself instead

Vegeta just cant catch a break

Enter in Vegeta.

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HandsomeRus

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I would later my head there because it looks comfy

post sauce

>Is Vegeta a masochist?

Well, he married Bulma. So I guess?

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>YAMERO AIIEEE

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Why does Bejita-sama like to get his ass fucked?

Takin' out the trash!

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>too big to fit in the can
B A S E D.

god I wish that were me

-High tier telekinesis
-Pyrokinesis
-High speed flight(possibly space warp)
-Planetary ki manipulation
-High level Ki absorption
-Telepathy
-Mind reading
-Illusion caating
-possibly lightining casting
-High awareness
-all the basic habilities high level fighters have
Truly the most threatning villain

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That + everything i said before. That togheter is actually something. You claimed that they did nothing.
And they weren't gonna do anything till forced too. Reminder you said they are "villains". Lost time I checked a Villain did something evil and killed people.

>Well if Yamcha was hyped up as the character with most potential since he was a child and trained for i forgot how many years with Goku in a time chamber, and if he had the ability to ascend past a super saiyan than it would make complete

Gohan was never hyped up. Infact the only time that was even a thing was Saiyan saga and was dropped quickly. And was no where in the entire Cell arc till last. Even Gohan had no motivation for Cell.

>What a dumb statement. What did Everyone except Goku fighting Buu accomplish. By your logic it accomplished nothing since they failed. Please shut the fuck up
First why didn't answer my question. 2nd: Everyone that did fight Buu could've killed Buu but thanks to tactics and time limits plans failed or villian outsmarted everyone. Plus the powers become useful for the villain as a plot twist. Plus everyone's power was needed to kill and Outlast the villian.

>gets manhandled by SSG Vegeta
Next.

>new manga chapter just came out
>thread already dead as fuck
is this the least liked arc in the history of Super?

If caulifla fought 18 who'd win?

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My dick, but honestly Caulifla.

Im sorry but your headcanons dont count

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Why are you telling me facts I already know. Absolutely nothing you’ve mentioned conflicts with what I’ve said. And you’ve done nothing but make yourself look like an insecure fooL

>runs away from SSB opponents and then hides behind goons
What a shit antagonist.

Got any full power jiren webm?

Got them all, baby.

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>just came out
Weak bait
"S-SEE, HE WAS TOTALLY MANHANDLED BY SSG VEGETA LIKE I SAID, IGNORE THAT IN THE SAME CHAPTER HE DEFEATED VEGETA"
Yeah, sure
>hides behind goons
Like King piccolo, Freeza and Cell(cell jrs)?! Even though this time there is an actual good reason to why he does that?! Done

>l-like every other villain? he is generic just like th-- OH YOU TRICKED ME
DOVER.

it's hard to gauge 18's current power, but probably Caulifla

U6vU7 Vegeta was impressed by Cabba and Caulifla is stronger than him

Yeah man you're right, who needs variety? Retard.

>who needs variety?
Nice headcanon.

>Lost time I checked a Villain did something evil and killed people.
Villain as in antagonist. By your definition ToP arc has no villains because Jiren isn't evil. Same goes for Broly (new one, not the old one).
>Gohan was never hyped up.
Now you are just making shit up. He was literally hyped up since Raditz came to earth. Also during the entire Cell saga Goku was constantly hyping him up and talking about how he can be stronger than him, he also trained him in the time chamber just for the sole purpose of defearing Cell.
>Even Gohan had no motivation for Cell.
It was stated in the show by both Piccolo and Android 16 that Gohan is a peacefulll kid and not a fighter. He had no motivation to fight anyone before and overcoming that was part of his character development.
>First why didn't answer my question
Dude you didn't answer like 8 questions that I asked you, stfu. Also i did respond to the question with "What did Everyone except Goku fighting Buu accomplish. By your logic it accomplished nothing since they failed." I applied your logic to the Buu saga.
>Everyone that did fight Buu could've killed Buu
Not true. Vegeta was unable to kill him even though he tried to and other Z fighters stood no chance to.
Also in cell saga Piccolo could have killed bug Cell but he escaped using solar flare, also Vegeta could have killed semi perfect cell but he let him live just so he could transform to his perfect form
>but thanks to tactics and time limits plans failed or villian outsmarted everyone.
Yes, the genius tactics of Buu who, much like yourself, can't form a complex sentence. He truly outsmarted them all. Also time limit was only for gotenks and Vegito, not Gohan, Vegeta or Goku.
>Plus the powers become useful for the villain as a plot twist.
??????
>Plus everyone's power was needed to kill and Outlast the villian.
Same thing happened with Cell. Gohan was losing his kamehameha battle with Cell untill everyone else ran in and distracted Cell.

Care to explain why him running away makes him a shit antagonist, or are you too busy shitposting?

That picture turns me on

she's underage

damn so many fucking posts are getting deleted lately

.

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>justifying a shitty cowardly antagonist
No no no.

>Salagir
>real

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>Was willing to fight Freeza
gohan had a diaper full of piss the entire time on namek. he only attacks frieza when he thinks krillin and then goku are dead. he does have a few brave moments for sure like standing up to vegeta and recoome. and suckerpunching dodoria, but he literally jobbed to goldo

i think gohan's arc coming full circle in the cell saga makes sense. what makes his character regress is literally everything that came after his transformation

I'm seeing it too. Based mods are taking out their trash posts quickly today so that's a plus.

>Literally just repeating yourself
Holy shit, are you having a brain blast or do you just have alzheimer's?

is vegeta going to learn instant transmission or UI on yardrat?

why didn't vegeta's tail grow back on namek?

Vegeta has denounced teleportation in this arc and admitted that he wasn't suited for UI in the last. Whatever he learns after mastering Spirit Control will help him in a different way from either Goku's fighting style or his own.

Incomptentgeta can't do UI. He will learn something else.

how was vegeta able to breath in space?

He wasn't and he can't.

What do you mean?

>repeating
>just one post in sight
Take your meds.

Saiyans tails are supposed to grow back when they're cut off. Goku has had his cut off like three times. It was only permenantly removed when Kami removed it.

Dipshit, you repeated "no" three times. I know you're IQ is in the single digits, but at least keep track of what you're posting. Now can please fuck off if you don't feel like justifying your shit tier opinions?

Goku was still growing while veget had rezchrd maturity

but they did though

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>you repeated "no" three times
>autistically crying over a popular expression
God I'm good at this.

Is that the reason given? I don't remember when that was said. Also, just so you know I'm not the same guy who asked the question originally, so you might want to reply to him instead.

>Not understanding the fun of sweaty post workout sex
Big gay

The saiyans destroying planet on their way to earth is not canon you know?

yeah sure, i don't buy it but in that case why didn't gohan's? they say when gohan's pops out "saiyans tail can grow back suddenly when your life is in danger" or some shit. unless that was a botched translation/creative freedom

For all we know vegeta didmt want his tail back. Or toriyama forgot it could grow back.

>To think that they’d go all the way into the stratosphere……but thinking about it, they’re both aliens, after all. Maybe they can just barely breathe.
kanzenshuu.com/translations/full-color-comics-freeza-arc-vol-5-akira-toriyama/

Why hasn't Jiya been shown yet?

Attached: Jiya.png (800x981, 1.27M)

So?

Are you going to keep going off topic or are you actually going to respond to my initial question? I know you're opinion is trash but come one, surely you can rub some brain cells together and think of some way to justify yourself.

>The tail lets you gain tremendous strength instantly by transforming into a giant ape, but the risks are equally great–you’ll lose your strength if it’s squeezed. Once you’re as powerful as Vegeta and Goku, the tail just gets in the way. It is thought that the bodies of Saiyans, who are a fighting species, decided that their tails are unnecessary appendages.
kanzenshuu.com/press-archive/shonen-jump-january-2003-interview-dragon-power-ask-akira-toriyama/

>it was too hard to animate the tails once the animation budget was cut
>once they got in the way we just got rid of them
oh thanks toriyama

What would ui do against moro?

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>Super saiyan 4 is so weak that accidentally transforming into it is a hindrance
Based

Huh, I don't see how the tail gets in the way since you can train to get rid of that squeezing weakness. Especially considering they can just wrap it around their waist if they don't want to use it. In fact, you would think an extra appendage would be used a lot by a fighting species.

I assume it would let Goku blitz Moro before he has the chance to drain his ki. Not only that, but in the manga it seems to be a technique rather than a power up, so Moro wouldn't be able to drain much energy even if he could react to Goku.

>Goku was entirely holding back to give Vegita a good fight

Why is gayku this desperate to get Doggeta attention?

It is strange that Goku is a homosexual despite being married to the opposite sex. Is he nervous about coming out? Is he afraid of what notorious homophobe Gohan, who infamously beat up the ginyu force, a gay rights activist group, will do once he hears the news?

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gohan definitely did NOT beat up the ginyu force lol. and goku is asexual due to his brain damage. he is fully matured sexually but still has the brain of a child. he doesn't even understand how his sons were born

kek, based

>good fight
He only didn't want to crush his person entirely
Cope

>you're opinion
DIDIDISCARDED.

>He only didn't want to crush his person entirely
So he loved the pissy jobber Keketa, thanks for proving the point, Gokupup

He pitied him, nice straw man. Goku is just a nice guy.

>Autistically crying over spelling errors
So are you going to answer my initial question or do you insist on going off topic so you can avoid it?

>Goku is just a nice guy.
Nice headcanon, let's stage a universe ending tournament shall we?

What question, my ESL comrade?

*an

goku has declared jihad on your race

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stop correcting me ESL

So is SSB stronger than SS4 in Heroes?

Why do you think Moro running away from SSB tier opponents and hiding behind his goons makes him a bad antagonist?

Based my son

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Because it shows he is weak and has to rely on tricks and other people.

Vegeta was cablable of blizting moro Only as blue. Surely kkx20 blue could do the job.

18. Caulishit is a faggot loser.

soo how would have 18 and Vegeta's married life been thoe?

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Honestly thisbis retarded, they can use their tails as a belt so it doesnt get in the way at all, and the tail is the only alien feature that they had, why take that away? Fucking tori

Hot tsundere couple, will ship unironically

But can't tricks and relying on others ne considered a different type of strength? Besides, isn't the hallmark of any good antagonist using any means necessary to achieve their goals?

DB Super was the best thing to ever happen as a vegeta fan

1- that was against Old Moro
2-Goku cant use Kaioken with SSB without destroying his body

knowing how goldigging 18's is how would Vegeta deal with that, also their sex life would be godlike seeing as Vegeta and 18 have inhuman stamina

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Only salvageable thing about him is that he isn't a retard like Cell that gets inevitably BTFO, and only fights when needed. He is still a pussy.

Wasn't that before Vegeta had his energy sucked by Moro? Besides, Goku doesn't have kaioken blue in the manga, he only has a technique that's sort of similar but destroys his body much worse.

dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Gohan_subplot_(Dragon_Ball_GT)

>dont want to be near 18s feet or thighs
fag

Haha imagine what it’s like to have Bulma’s sweaty feet right on your chin and neck haha, I bet they’re close enough to where Vegeta can smell their sweet pungent aroma haha...

Isn't only fighting when needed being the same thing as being a pussy? Oh, and just to clarify, I'm not ESL, I'm just a moron.

Well, my ESL friend, regardless of Moro being filler, he at least goes straight to his objectives, disregarding retards trying to fight him.

t. Friendless NEET.

in the manga version goku looked like he was losing. in the anime it looked more equal. however ss4 goku there was not trying to fight, but rather he tried forcing blue goku into shooting off a kamehameha so he could counter it with his own so the resulting explosion would jihad prison planet.

if you want other sources of information, in xenoverse whis jizzes his pants when he sees ss4 and says ss4 goku is the perfect candidate for god of destruction. in other games, ss4 is almost always equal to blue and many times far stronger. in fusions i think its weaker than blue.

basically consider them equal but if you want to imagine some fights, remember that ss4 is super stable and non stamina draining unlike blue and both can use kaioken
>but ss4 gogeta only lasted like 10 seconds
the fusion was too strong to last, it didnt drain stamina so hard the fusion failed. same deal with vegito blue. too strong to stay fused for the entire duration

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its a shame that Trunks didnt kept future 18 as a sex slave, hell he could have turned her good with the power of the dick, wonder how would past 18 and Krillin would react to them together thoe

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then why the fuck didn't Gogeta defuse against Broly? what kind of asspull is that?

it was a really quick fight i suppose

It's good

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"trunks" wouldn't have turned out such a faggot that's for sure

Gogeta lasts way longer than he seemingly should against Broly. Potaro fusion supposedly lasts longer than metamoran fusion but Vegito isn't able to do half as much shit against Zamasu than Gogeta does against Broly.

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makes you wonder what Future Trunks would think seeing his dad with 18, would 18 tease him with mommy stuff?

What does /dbs/ general think of Gohan?

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well shin says it hasnt been an hour yet, and we know vegito likes to dick around. maybe it was close to an hour but not quite. no one specified the fusion failed after like 10 minutes or something. remember the time scaling here is retarded like how the 5 minutes on namek was like a week from our perspective

yeah, he broke and fix the dimension blew up Broly with stardust breaker, resonant explosion and almost killed him with a Kamehameha and he still managed to wrap everything up within his already short time limit, compare this to Vegito, he only used Spirit Sword and a final Kamehameha yet somehow he burned up his whole hour

wait remind me, did Vegetto knew he was going to defuse or did they expected to use the wish to unfuse? i cant recall what was it, if he didnt know he was just fucking around then

Where's pic from? Fanart?

i mean did he knew the potara fusion was on a timer

>remember that ss4 is super stable and non stamina draining unlike blue
What are you talking about? Goku ran out of stamina fighting in SS4 constantly. Like every fight aside from Baby that happened. Blue also drained stamina but by the end of the Super anime he was powering up back to Blue even after being beaten to hell and back, and in the manga learning to control god ki has been much more important.

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>not keeping 17

What are things that the Super anime does BETTER than the manga?

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I think he's pretty cool, I like him most pre cell games. His fight against Cell is kinda strange because usually Gohan only didn't fight opponents as a kid seemingly because he was scared of them, not because he was a pacifist, but in the Cell fight Toriyama made him into a pacifist, which I guess doesn't necessarily contradict anything that came before but it's still kinda weird. He's fine in the tournament part of the Buu arc but anything after the Dabura fight is a waste of screen time desu.
I'm fine with him in the manga of Super, he focuses on raising his child and his job, loses power as a result, but gets in shape for the TOP, then eliminates Kefla and himself in the process. He isn't treated as a key player and him being too busy to train due to his responsibilities as a parent/functioning member of society feels justified so it's fine. The anime however felt like it was constantly teasing he was gonna do something important, or get some new transformation or something when he ended not doing that much.

Better power scaling, role assignment, and relevancy to everyone, the proof is in Black arc

setting up red herring plots, only to end with ULTRA GOKU and no apparent paradigm shift between the gods and the mortals

It has some good filler and extended scenes that focuses on the characters interactions and thoughts and shit. Stuff like Krillin sparring with Goku before the TOP to get over his fear, and Goku and Frieza's fight before the TOP. It makes the manga feel a little rushed when these moments aren't included.

>wanting to fuck a male that isn't a trap

most of us are straight you know

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Pretty much everything.

sucking

Remember when goKEK got cucked by his faggot son?

No wonder he's always losing to His Royal Highness Godgeta.

17 can pass as a female since he looks just like 18

Champa Champa

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Some slice of life stuff between big stupid arcs is nice. Some of the more subtle references.

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Better power scaling? How so?

Compare how the manga, Vegito somehow destroyed a god tier enemy with his base form and the anime, Vegito needs a god transformation to stand a chance against a god tier enemy

>no arguments about what i said, just crying
I won.

what does that have to do with power scaling?

>Villain as in antagonist
Retard

Vegito managed to catch him off guard with one beam that only managed to hit Zamasu's arm, and then immediately went Blue. I don't think that can be classified as "destroying" Zamasu.

AAAARETEEEE

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it makes no sense for someone that is less than Buuhan tier to destroy an entirely different tier enemy even if you caught them off guard, that's like saying a baby could kill a sleeping body builder just by punching him, the anime made sense because Blue Vegito still struggles with Zamasu because both are equal

>What are you talking about? Goku ran out of stamina fighting in SS4 constantly
Only because him being hurt though.

>Dragonball Z:BotG was written by Tori, he came up with the movie's story and character designs.

Didn't Toei come up with the plot?

A man of taste

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Do you have any more examples like that?

>that's like saying a baby could kill a sleeping body builder just by punching him
Comparing normal humans with powerful beings that can fly and do ki attacks isn't honest user.

ah lemme give you a canon example then, it's like saying Chiaotzu catching Nappa off guard, blew up and successfully killing him

but base Goku destroyed Jobren just by exploiting his weak spots and SSB almost got killed by a laser, in dragon ball anything can kill you if you are caught off guard

Super Goku is different from Z. Give me one instance of Goku not being nice from Z.
>inb4 cell's senzu
Discarded, don't bother.

People getting hit by surprise attacks far weaker than them and actually getting hurt by them has been a consistent thing since ROF. See Goku getting blasted by a goons laser despite being in SSB. It is literally how ultra instinct works in the manga, as it isn't a power multiplier but still does critical damage due to it attacking the enemies unguarded vitals. The anime seemingly works the same way, seeing as though 17 was able to hurt Jiren by surprise attacking him from behind.

>It makes the manga feel a little rushed when these moments aren't included.

Can you say the same about Toriyama's manga?

But Nappa was fully aware of Chiaotzu, he just couldn't take him off his back, it's not like he didn't see it coming.

>Let Vegeta live because WAKU WAKU KURIRIN!
>i can defeat Buu but i will let these kids WAKU WAKU because last time i tried it with Gohan he killed Cell without any casualties!

asking Krillin to not kill Vegeta. He even fucking admitted to being selfish and wanting Vegeta to live only because he wanted a good challenge, even though the guy indirectly killed a ton of his friends and maimed his own son.

>>i can defeat Buu but i will let these kids WAKU WAKU because last time i tried it with Gohan he killed Cell without any casualties!
Brainlet, I swear all of you anti Goku retards are.
That is not even the same type of case. I asked about an instance of him not being nice to a person and breaking him intentionally and not just looking for a fight.

No, because the Super anime was ahead of the Super manga for a significant while, so you expect the manga to adapt certain things from the anime but it doesn't hence why it feels a little rushed. The original Dragon Ball manga was always ahead of the anime, so you knew the filler scenes in that were just icing on the cake.

how did he predict him self-destructing?

Is being selfish just because he wanted to sate his 'fight boner' a good guy in your book? holy shit

He probably felt the little midget on his back, and noticed he was up for something, so he braced himself.

That actually proves that he is a super nice guy, nice going.

It has some nice guy in it yes, he didn't want to kill a guy because it would have been a waste of his abilities.

let me remind you that these saiyans can't feel ki, and the only thing in Nappa's mind back then is desperately trying to remove him and there's no way to know Chiaotzu is trying to take him down with him

i am almost positive he says it out loud. or he telepaths it to tien and then tien yells out something stupid tipping off the saiyans. i'm pretty sure he was aware of it

Nappa was wearing an armor and he was aware of his prescense.

>Also during the entire Cell saga Goku was constantly hyping him up
At the END of the fucking arc shit for brains.

>He had no motivation to fight anyone before and overcoming that was part of his character development.
So Namek was just a joke? Gohan didnt willingly save Dendi? Or Fight the Ginyu's, or confront Vegeta, or Fight Freeza 3 different times? Plus Dendi dying. Or saving Piccolo in the same Cell Arc.

>Same thing happened with Cell. Gohan was losing his kamehameha battle with Cell untill everyone else ran in and distracted Cell.
Ummm yeah last time I checked only Vegeta did any damage to Cell to make a distraction. Dipship.

>Hey this guy and his lackey caused the death of my friends but i forgive him
In that case why don't you say that he's trying to entertain fucking Zenos by sacrificing everyone? Holy shit you're retarded

but user
Vegeta IS the doctor

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Proof that only highly intellectual scholars may participate in these threads, where we discuss the moral implications of saving a gifted mans life, despite said man using those gifts for evil. We truly are the CHADS of Yea Forums.

Based.

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Chiaotzu literally says "goodbye Tensinhan... save yourself" whilst crying and clinging to Nappa. If that doesn't imply suicide attack then I don't know what does.

he used telepathy, the evidence is the echo in Tien's mind, also Nappa is high above the ground occupied with something to notice Tien stuttering at nothing, well maybe except that scream at the end but it didn't imply anything about self destructing to Nappa
youtube.com/watch?v=SfTo3xiQd5I

see

oops the other way around

Everything desu.

I'm not antiGoku, but the lad is not a traditional hero. He could go around the city dealing with crimes like his son does, but he has only given a fuck about evil guys only when they fuck with people he cares about.

Considering people usually don't just cling onto peoples backs in the middle of fights for no reason, I think it's safe to assume Nappa knew something was up, especially with the crying and Tien shouting. Keep in mind that Nappa is a saiyan warrior and has seen his fair share of fights. Also keep in mind that even if Nappa was still hurt by that attack, even if it wasn't by much. Even if it didn't hurt Nappa, that doesn't mean that Zamasu shouldn't be damaged by Vegito's surprise attack, as they're two different characters who we don't know the power levels of using/getting hit by a different attack which we don't know the power of either.

No many fights it was like a hard time limit.

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Honest thoughts on Dragon Ball Dissection?

youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpUvCDCHJKPNe8z2Il1tANb2fxld_KyMv

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Very good. Though sometimes lance says dumb stuff because he lets himself be taken by his emotions. Like defending goku giving a senzu bean to cell or trying to put goku like a good father.

Not really, Nappa is trying to drop Chiaotzu off in the spiky mountains, he did not brace for the impact
>Even if it didn't hurt Nappa, that doesn't mean that Zamasu shouldn't be damaged by Vegito's surprise attack, as they're two different characters who we don't know the power levels of using/getting hit by a different attack which we don't know the power of either.
sorry, Nappa and Chiaotzu power difference is still not as big as Base Vegito and F. Zamasu, the latter is literally 3 arcs late, Vegito needed SS to fight Buu but now his Base form can stand up against a fused God tier enemy? nah

It's pretty good, though I don't think he gives enough credit to other aspects of Dragon Ball aside from the narrative, such as the fight choreography, panel layout, artwork, etc.

>the fight choreography, panel layout, artwork, etc
I mean, he has mentioned the quality of fight or the fact that some character have an specific speech bubble depending of how they are.

Nappa only tries to drop him into the spiky mountains in the anime, not the manga.
> Nappa and Chiaotzu power difference is still not as big as Base Vegito and F. Zamasu
How do you know the power level difference between Vegito and Fused Zamasu when it's never explicitly stated?
>Vegito needed SS to fight Buu but now his Base form
Key word here being "fight", not "surprise". Also, Vegito fought Buu as a literal gumball, so that's maybe not the best example.

>implying Vegito didn't get any stronger since then
D O N E

>How do you know the power level difference between Vegito and Fused Zamasu when it's never explicitly stated?
How did we know Goku needed God form to fight Beerus an opponent with a power from a whole different tier?
>Also, Vegito fought Buu as a literal gumball, so that's maybe not the best example.
Still a super saiyan gumball, he had enough power to move compared to the others having no way to retaliate since they are not power enough

saiyans cant even breathe underwater retard

What did she mean by this?

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Why does our boy Lance hate Battle of Gods, RoF and Super?

>breathing in space
not a thing, there's nothing to breathe in space. Some aliens simply don't breath or don't need to.

Which movie only do you want to get canonized next?

For the same reason everyone here.

>non-canon
To think, all that just to see his dark locks for herself. Had she known of Old Kai's unlock, she might even have been willing to make the trade so he could never go blonde again.

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>non-canon
Holy cope.

>How did we know Goku needed God form to fight Beerus an opponent with a power from a whole different tier?
Because he went ss3 and got his ass kicked. He clearly needed more power. We never see Fused Zamasu kicking base Vegitos ass.

Sadly . He is loyal and loves his wife/family now. And then? He really isn't into dolls. He meant it. Be it 18, Chi-Chi (the wench), Cheelai (Green Bulma) or whomever, he just isn't interested. He has the main girl. The game is over.

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>Sadly
Why say it like if that's something bad?

>undefeated against Gokek
>able to make his own techniques
>including one superior to the over-rated Kamehameha from the start
>got the better wife and family
He's just got high standards for himself.

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I didn't know he hated BoG or RoF, but if I had to guess it's because those two arcs don't really feel like a story to be honest. Stuff happens in them, but it doesn't really feel like there's much point to it (aside from world building). Like, if someone gave you the cliffnotes version of those two films you would pretty much get the full experience (which is more or less what the manga does actually).
Has Lance read the Super manga? I know he wasn't a fan of the ToP in the anime, but I don't know his thoughts on the manga.

>got the format right
Hey, alright.

>2-1 (Vegeta) soon
True. But more importantly, 3-0 over Gokek (though maybe not as soon). Take it from these ki control specialists.

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HAHAHAHAHAHA

>We never see Fused Zamasu kicking base Vegitos ass.
yes, but we did see Black breaking BLUE vegeta as a mere SS, his zenkai is still very new and he can still exploit it farther than Vegeta even after RosaT, that is definitely an alarm to not hold back even after fusing

>still pining after the shota prince that got away
Lizard is tsundere for monkeys. It is a fact.

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If i don't remember wrong, lance said that he didn't care about what was happening in the manga since he already watched the anime and was disappointed. That happened when people asked him about what did he think about roshi using some proto-UI.

The creator of that Bulma × Android 18 comic still has two patrons despite not posting any updates for 1 year and 8 months.

Patreon really needs some now anti-Spoony rules to shut down degenerate creators.

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Based.

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It is pretty funny, isn't it? Trunks always beats Goten, too.

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Cringeworthy brainlet retard

>but we did see Black breaking BLUE vegeta as a mere SS
That was before Vegeta returned from the present after training, he soon returned to the future and faired much better against him.
>that is definitely an alarm to not hold back even after fusing
Vegito didn't hold back against Fused Zamasu, he fired one ki blast at him as soon as he fused as Zamasu was off guard to disrupt the ki blast Zamasu was about to throw at him and then immediately went blue. Him not holding back is explicitely the reason he defused. Keep in mind that Zamasu didn't know mortals could fuse, which is why he was caught off guard.

Was Super completely unnecessary?

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Oh, that's a shame, the two are quite different so I'd have liked to hear his thoughts.

Could be worse. Could job to a cat, a non-meme fag (repeatedly), another cat, a weak old man in a playfight, his rival (twice) as the MC, have a tiny Oozaru state (never even known, much less mastered), job in almost all your form debuts, etc.

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Yeah I'd say so. None of the arcs so far have really impacted any of the characters in a meaninful way. Setting Super before the end of Z was a mistake imo.

W-what's he going to do to him?

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Nice headcanon, they fight a lot off screen.

>tamed Bulma
So naturally.

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>That was before Vegeta returned from the present after training, he soon returned to the future and faired much better against him.
read the next line
>Vegito didn't hold back against Fused Zamasu, he fired one ki blast at him as soon as he fused as Zamasu was off guard to disrupt the ki blast Zamasu was about to throw at him and then immediately went blue. Him not holding back is explicitely the reason he defused. Keep in mind that Zamasu didn't know mortals could fuse, which is why he was caught off guard.
sorry, what i meant to say is that it is ridiculous for a God tier fusion to lost half of his body even to surprise attack coming from a outdated relic
>inb4 you told me 'but you've just said SS Black destroyed Blue Vegeta, which is supposed to have a large gap within transformation'
there's a difference, they explained that Black Zenkai is renewed because he's a new user of the body, which makes sense, look at how Goku abused his zenkai on his early days, but Vegito has no explanation on how his base form can damage Zamasu even with a surprise

>why does he like to ass fuck
This is a big misunderstanding. He just fucks his vassal over (from behind). He does it FOR him, not TO him.

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>implying he wouldn't try it

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You are so obsessed with Goku holy shit. And changing what you are replying to to mean a different thing is fucking pathetic.

Is it true that BoG was supposed to be a stand alone?

>his zenkai is still very new and he can still exploit it farther than Vegeta even after RosaT
Fused Zamasu is never shown to gain a zenkai boost. Not only that, but it doesn't really matter considering Vegito aimed for Zamasus arm, meaning his goal was to prevent Zamasu form throwing his ki at him, not to hurt him.
>ridiculous for a God tier fusion to lost half of his body even to surprise attack coming from a outdated relic
God tier opponents being hurt by weak attacks they didn't see coming has been established since RoF, once again see blue Goku being shot by a goons laser despite being blue. It doesn't matter whether or not you THINK they should or shouldn't be hurt by these weak attacks, what matters is that they have consistently shown that they are weak to them.

>for all we know
Let's not kid ourselves. Either AT forgot or he wanted us to forget. More probably, he didn't want to deal with canon multipliers anymore (and gave it the axe along with KK after it outlived its usefulness). That and a shameful history attached to it for the MC.

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>once again see blue Goku being shot by a goons laser despite being blue.
i thought they retconned it by making goku powering down before getting shotted?

I honestly don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me knowing Toriyama. Especially since if I recall, the BoG film didn't introduce the multiverse or anything like that, so there wasn't as much world building going on. He probably planned on just letting Toei make up their own shit after making BoG.

Only in the Super anime, in the manga the second half of the RoF film (once Goku and Frieza start fighting for real) is canon, with the first half being covered by a spinoff manga that gives a sort of cliffnotes retelling of events, with the only major change being Gohan doesn't job to first form Frieza, and Goku and Vegeta don't seem to have ssg in base form.

youtu.be/eehv-7lVK_g

From what i heard, BOG was just supossed to be a normal dragon ball movie. That until toriyama decided to form part of the creation of the movie since he feared toei fucking up like they did with gt. (And because db evolution had toriyama pretty worried about he state of the franchise in movies) if i am not wrong, beerus wasn't even supossed to be a god, he was supossed to be some sort of villain with the power of controlling people like a virus. (That's why the "beerus" pun also sounds a lot like "virus" becuase that was the original intention.)

>good fight
>gets his ass kicked
At least he didn't get shamed further by bringing out that jobber form he (retroactively) was hiding only to lose to it (like he lost to KKx4). Gokek invites disaster upon himself (like turning his back to his Prince and believing his lies).

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>Especially since if I recall, the BoG film didn't introduce the multiverse or anything like that,

Didn't Beerus explain it?

i thought the manga didn't cover RoF? anyway, this makes sense since they would have to wait for Goku to lower his power tier to beat him

youtu.be/5U82GtbfaSk
Why's gokus track record aghast androids so bad?

That first manga was promotional, though. It ended by telling readers to go watch the film.

It doesn't. But it has a promotional manga for the movie made by toyotaro. It was also confirmed that RoF, the movie version, is canon in the manga.

See

>i thought the manga didn't cover RoF?
It kinda doesn't, but there's a sort of spin off manga that was released around the same time that basically gives a slightly modified version of the first half of the RoF movie.
> this makes sense since they would have to wait for Goku to lower his power tier to beat him
Are you saying that the animes version of events make more sense? Because again, if god tier opponents consistently get hurt by weaker attacks when caught off guard (which they do), then you can't call that bad power scaling.

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see

>if god tier opponents consistently get hurt by weaker attacks when caught off guard (which they do), then you can't call that bad power scaling.
yes, but never resulted in a fatal damage of losing body parts, it will always result in a scratch or worse case scenario, a wound but it won't held back the fighters from fighting

>but never resulted in a fatal damage
You need to rewatch RoF then, as when Goku is shot by the fodder laser, it pierces right through him, he instantly coughs up blood, powers down to base form, and collapses to the ground, unable to defend himself from Friezas attacks.Vetgeta had to intervene to allow Krillin to heal Goku. He would have died if not for Vegeta's intervention.

that's the movie, which carried to the manga, further solidifying the point that the manga is not that great at power scaling, now in the anime version, they fixed the power scaling, this point supports my claim

Caulifla is much stronger

Can someone make a MEGA with all the canon manga?

Not any less than any other shonen character, specially protagonists. They always push harder and fight against the odds and a lot of times get their ass kicked. The only difference between Vegeta and any other badass shonen protagonist is that, well, he is no protagonist so he doesn't get the plot armor they get.

Honestly at this point I'd love to watch a spinoff of Vegeta having his own adventure in some lost corner of the universe, maybe along with some other of the characters who are good but get royally shitted by how much Toriyama likes to make his boi Goku shine.

>they fixed the power scaling
How? You haven't said why it's broken yet. All you've said so far is that you don't think attacks that are weak should be able to hit god tier oppoents, but they clearly and consistently do, so how can you call it bad if it's consistent and doesn't break continuity?

is Towa stronger than fat buu?

>You haven't said why it's broken yet.
>Movie/Manga
SSB getting destroyed by laser beam, SSR Fusion somehow gets decimated by a surprise attack from a Base form fusion
>Anime
They have to wait for Goku to power down in order to take him down, SSB Vegito still struggles against a God enemy because both of them are in the equal tier
>All you've said so far is that you don't think attacks that are weak should be able to hit god tier oppoents, but they clearly and consistently do
Weak attacks CAN hit the strongest opponents, but they CANNOT hurt them to the point where they are knocking them out from a fight or completely decimating their body parts, that is ridiculous

I would if I had one mate, sorry. I just one of the various and perfectly legitmate manga hosting sites.

Power scaling can't be fixed cause it is a shitty concept at heart. It's trading training, skills, ingenuity and special techniques for a number that says that you win cause you are stronger and that's it.

Also, for the other user, the closest to a theory (cause Toriyama never explains shit) is believing the power level is not entirely related to the power level of the skills. So, if the other guy shrugs off most of your attacks, you still might be able to throw a special attack that, for whatever reason, is higher than your own power level, being able to hit and hurt him.

Do you think in the future, they will ever remake the Dragon Ball/Z anime?

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>SSB getting destroyed by laser beam, SSR Fusion somehow gets decimated by a surprise attack from a Base form fusion
You have literally just provided multiple pieces of evidence that weak surprise attacks can hurt gods to he point of knocking them out or completely decimating their body parts, therebye proving that it is consistent.
>They have to wait for Goku to power down in order to take him down, SSB Vegito still struggles against a God enemy because both of them are in the equal tier
That is ine the anime which is a completely different continuity and is therefore irrelevant.
>that is ridiculous
What you want and what is are two seperate things. In your head canon, gods shouldn't be able to get hurt by weak surprise attacks, but they consistently do in the manga. Again, if it is consistent and doesn't break any previous continuity, how is it bad?

>So, if the other guy shrugs off most of your attacks, you still might be able to throw a special attack that, for whatever reason, is higher than your own power level, being able to hit and hurt him.
even then it's just illogical for God to be destroyed by ray gun or a surprise attack from a being far far extremely far down below him, giving Zamasu a wound from Vegito's blast is fine in my book, but outright decimating his arm even with a surprise attack? no

you're now thinking about SS2 Kefla twerking

Shut up Monica Rial.

You should consider the oriental view of gods. The only one who gets closer to the christian god is Zeno. And even so I believe he might be vulnerable to some attacks as well.

You see, for DB universe gods and otherworldly beings are not necessarily powerful combat-wise. Gods of destruction are because, well, they are gods of destruction.
In general supernatural beings have special powers or abilities but, besides that, they might be subject to some kind of beating if someone powerful enough appears. Gods of destruction, for example, aren't using their destruction power all the time. Whenever that power is mentioned everyone shits their pants.
So, yes, someone like Beerus might be able to destroy anyone using that particular destruction power, but if he doesn't, for any reason, then he is subject to get his ass kicked by anyone strong enough.

youtube.com/watch?v=SLjU8Z4hAQA
This video illustrates my point well, if Goku or Zamasu don't have their guard up, they can get hit by attacks which are far weaker than them, as they aren't defending themselves.

Did you ACTUALLY just propose Bejita is more intelligent than Frieza? The most well spoken character in dragonball with an imperial dynasty education in space academics?

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>gods shouldn't be able to get hurt by weak surprise attacks, but they consistently do in the manga. Again, if it is consistent and doesn't break any previous continuity
then why didn't Beerus gets blown to smithereens or even wounded when Vegeta caught him off guard with SS2? the distance of his power and beerus is almost similar to Vegito and Zamasu, both regular tier saiyan to a God
even so that power distance is still closer than a regular base saiyan to a god

That's kind of silly though. Fighting makes you, literally, tougher. Even in our world trained fightets can take hits better than untrained people.

Even so I get the idea. Somehow their bodies aren't that strong and they just happend to get some kind of ki guard to passively defend from attacks.

Fish can't breathe in space either so being able to breathe under water is not the prerequisite for breathing in space

>Superman hears about this and goes after Goku.
>He obliterates Goku easily, the fight is not even fair.
>Everyone cries Vegeta and Bulma and forget Goku ever existed (not that there's anything left of him to remember anyway).

superman >> homelander > goku

heroes dude

No she’s cucking Krillin for 17, look at how she reacts towards the end of the ToP

uh, vegito base form would do pretty well against zamasu since hes just goku blue + zamasus tiny power

you know im legit suprised how 17 and 18 as a couple isnt all that popular seeing how incest is all the rage in japanese media, but if i had to guess it was because due to the time when they were introduced, if 18 and 17 were introduced now they would be a lot of incest shit of them

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>why didn't Beerus gets blown to smithereens
Because Vegeta punched him in the face, and then proceeded to combo him, he didn't shoot a laser beam at him.
>or even wounded
Beerus clearly felt some pain from Vegetas blows.
>the distance of his power and beerus is almost similar to Vegito and Zamasu, both regular tier saiyan to a God
Vegito not only combines Goku and Vegetas power, but it also significantly magnifies it by an unknown amount, so he certainly isnt a regular tier saiyan. Fused Zamasu combies Goku Black (who in rose was ssgss tier, which is below Beerus) and Zamasu (who was weaker than ss Goku), and magnifies their power by an unknown amount. Keep in mind that not all gods equal in power, as Beerus and Quitela seem to be the strongest in the manga, as shown in the pre ToP tournament. You saying these two instances are similar is complete head canon.

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My nigga

Rose is superior to blue thanks to Zam's natural god ki amplifying it.

>Zeno immediately realizes what has happened
>Zeno, in a fit of rage, brings Goku back to life and instructs El Grande to personally train Goku
>They go into the Universal Time Chamber where 1 minute in Real time = 1 year inside
>Goku comes out
>He has surpassed El Grande Padre
>he flies faster than light towards superman and punches Superfaggot so hard that reality breaks and Goku kills the very concept of Superman in the multiverse
>Instant tranmissions into king kai's world and rapes both bulma and vegeta again

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Future 17 and 18 HAD to be banging.

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So now that Gogeta/Vegetto will be able to use UI, does that means they are back to 30/60 min, instead 5 minutes for both?

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thats not true and it also doesnt matter since goku + vegeta is multitudes stronger than just goku. fused zamasu is just goku in power

Krillin isn't powering up in that example, he's literally just throwing a normal rock at Goku and it hurt him.

...let’s be honest, 17 and 18 weren’t all that popular until Toriyama suddenly decided 17 was his golden boy in Super, and besides everyone was too excited by the Cell vore thing at the time.

there's no reason to use UI since it's weaker than blue

well thats pretty much all but confirmed i mean, it gets pretty boring without Gohan and Trunks to play

>Gogeta/Vegetto will be able to use UI
they cant because of vegeta. vegeta cant turn his brain off like goku. and the fact these dumbass fusions love to dick around in general, since gotenks did it too, they would never be able to do it. they just dont have the focus

They were, to their knowledge, literally the only things on the planet strong enough to survive having vigorous sex after all-including mountains.

Have to wonder if 17 would’ve eventually settled down to be a park ranger after all the humans were dead in that timeline, though. Like Thanos and his farm.

All saiyans are. I mean why else would you purposefully go get punched in the face 100 times per second at every opportunity?

In a few years Toriyama will introduce DUPER Instinct anyway which is stronger than Blue and UI combined and is the ki of the archons which are above the angels

>Believing training would be enough to beat Superman, even as a top-tier anime character.

Honestly the only one who might be able to beat him is Saitama, and only because it is pretty much the same character concept but taken to anime parody level.

ooh i just realized that because theyre so extra creative and have a natural affinity towards creating new attacks, if vegeta masters spirit control, a fusion could utilize that to do some ridiculous shit. i mean gotenks already seems like he naturally has a great hold on spirit type attacks

>”I-I-I’m just doing this for the zenkai boost, now hit me HARDER you pathetic earth woman!”
>Saiyan BDSM enthusiast, 20XX

>zamasus little power
Nope, Zamasu might be weak but he can still put up a fight against Goku, however, Rose himself is stronger than Goku and Vegeta, i'd put Vegito as 2+2 and Zamasu as 3+1
>Because Vegeta punched him in the face, and then proceeded to combo him, he didn't shoot a laser beam at him.
That punch should've hurt him then
>Beerus clearly felt some pain from Vegetas blows.
clearly not, he's unscathed, and they have no problem with using blood on the manga
>Zamasu (who was weaker than ss Goku)
Not really, even in the anime he is at least SS2, in manga, Goku said SSG is enough for him which means he's around SS3-SSG
And Goku anticipated nothing from it since he's asleep whereas Zamasu is awake and he can clearly see a ki blast coming towards him even as a surprise attack

Hey speaking about creative new attacks, has 17 always been able to create forcefields or did Toriyama just give him that power for the tournament? Legit forgot, and pretty sure the energy drain thing from GT isn’t canon.

Also remind me, what was the excuse for why his blasts can damage Jiren when blue monkey rage can’t?

well they did introduce a nu 17 and 18 with heroes that are pretty much incest the characters, those tsufur looking twins

>and the fact these dumbass fusions love to dick around in general
Gogeta literally goes for a perfect round as SSB and tried to kill Broly

what would Vados think of Buu

I wonder how Vegeta would deal with being caught by Goku Black’s scythe that can cut a hole into what looks like the Warp? Goku could just instant transmit out.

>he can still put up a fight against Goku
nigga hes not even a match for base form trunks. youre not going off the anime are you?

You just renewed my interest in Heroes. Can I get some actual names?

Speaking of incest, the Buu race is canonically born of incest because Satan gave the fat bubblegum fuck porn and Towa and Mira are basically doing incest too.

>every time they wiped out a city 18 got really turned on and made 17 pound her ass on a ruined skyscraper

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i dont know dude. i feel like there was always forcefields so it didnt shock me at all though i cant remember where ive seen it before. doesnt broly do it in the second coming?

also i dont remember 17 ever hurting jiren at all. the explosion didnt hurt him right? everyone was like "aw fuck it didnt do anything" and jiren commented on how 17 died for nothing

nope. he went base form and then super saiyan and then when broly starting to catch up faster and faster he went blue to try to end it quick. he was trying to play with him. he even wasted time trying to think up a name. i think that if we get to see gogeta again in a situation where time isnt of the essence, he would be dicking around like a jackass like gt gogeta

>androids don’t need to digest because of the perpetual energy cores and they wiped out a LOT of cities
>18’s stockings, skirt and shoes were caked with the sloppy incest cumshots sliding out of her ruined pooper by the time of Gohan’s death

oren and kamin, they even combine into one, and their whole deal is that they hold hands a lot
makes me wonder how did 18 never got preg thoe, would have been funny if they suddenly stop rampaging and trunks finds them to kill them and find 18 with a kid and 17 out from civilization, wonder how he would handle that situation

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well? also it is stated that you have to be stronger than your opponent to use mafuba and Goku powers up to Blue to use it, which means manga zamasu is at least lower god tier

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>El tataranieto de Roshi
Not el hermanastro de Goku
Or both honestly.

He needs to be let outside before he has another accident. Bejita-sama already "told" him...twice.

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See that’s the thing, I legit don’t remember anybody doing forcefields in mainline DBZ outside of a movie or special, and I definitely don’t remember 17 doing any. And he completely fucked off to range parks after the Cell Saga, and park ranging is apparently so fucking intense in U7 he was approaching Blue/Golden Frieza level by the time of the ToP. But the point is, I don’t think he started with forcefields and logically he had nobody to teach him.

>I don’t remember 17 ever hurting jiren
m.youtube.com/watch?v=vjKNKfV0ByY
m.youtube.com/watch?v=zgEUzUt5xsA

The second one happens after Jiren’s all fucked up from MUI. But for some fucking insane reason 17 is anime-canonically the first ever fighter in the tournament to put a dent in Jiren.

i think hes just covering his bases. zamasu is legitimately weak in the manga and in super goku defaults to blue or red no matter what. i only remember him starting low with toppo and then ramping up for zeno. also, its very possible that the immortality is whats making him blow so much energy

>Discussing a show with an author who doesn't give a shit about coherence.

But let's get into it.

Zamasu is not that powerful. It's been already established in the show that, not only Zamasu, but most kais aren't too good as combatants. Sure they have their god powers, but when it comes to fighting people they can be outmatched by powerful opponents.
I wouldn't say Zamasu would put much of a fight against Goku or Vegeta.

As for Goku black, he's essentially a less trained Goku. Sure, he gains new powers at an incredible rate, showing he has a lot of raw potential, but I wouldn't put him above Goku for a lot. It's just a Goku with more potential and less training. Sure he's powerful, but I wouldn't say he is beyond any chances of getting hurt by any of the two saiyans.

Nothing here really says the fusion between the two would be able to resist any kind of damage like a top-tier god. They are pretty much a weak god fused with a powerful warrior.

>he went base form and then super saiyan and then when broly starting to catch up faster and faster he went blue to try to end it quick
Because, Potara with Blue drained their already short time limit, he used SS and saved SSB as a last resort, you wouldn't want to use SSB even if the opponent is outmatched, they have no idea how SSB will strain metamoran fusion
>he was trying to play with him.
He didn't, he's not even taunting Broly like Zamasu
>he even wasted time trying to think up a name
he still have 30 minutes and only wasted 15 seconds, it's not like he's holding a pee or in his Blue form

>didn't want to get crushed
Understandable.

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>Goku is a retard
Not untrue, but even he knows that which you've willfully overlooked.

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>Broken legs
>Healed by a bean

They are not even trying.

Imagine if DBS Marron has perpetual energy because Toriyama decides half-androids work like half-saiyans and makes up some bullshit reason for her to inherit limitless energy

>i think hes just covering his bases
no, he already measured Zamasu fighting abilities back before training for mafuba, he had a vague guessing of where Zamasu PL is

>if the other guy shrugs off most of your attacks, you still might be able to throw a special attack that
This was debunked with Perfect Cell.
The destructo disk was supposed to cut everything, but it failed miserably when Krillin tried it on Perfect Cell.

It's really just about numbers and techniques you have to compensate for someone with higher numbers.
The Kaio-ken, which increases your numbers or the spirit bomb, which lends numbers from others or the makankosapppou and Kamehameha, charging attacks that multiply your own are all techniques to bridge the gap between the fighter and its opponent

If Zamasu isn’t that powerful does that mean hypothetically if Vegeta wished for immortality and Goku got god ki and they fused and Trunks cut them in half with the asspull spirit sword, then Gogeta could start subsuming the multiverse Giygas-style?

>18 and 17 fucking nonstop after the whole synchro fight against Gohan
>poor Trunks meanwhile suffering

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Yes you brainless mongrel, when I said villain i meant the antagonist. It's pretty common to say villain instead.
>At the END of the fucking arc shit for brains
You retard. Do you even know what hyping up means? He was hyped up from fucking episode 1, rewatch the show if your memory is that bad. Also don't you fucking dare call me shit for brains when you can't even form a sentence correctly.
>So Namek was just a joke? Gohan didnt willingly save Dendi? Or Fight the Ginyu's, or confront Vegeta, or Fight Freeza 3 different times? Plus Dendi dying. Or saving Piccolo in the same Cell Arc.
See >Ummm yeah last time I checked only Vegeta did any damage to Cell to make a distraction. Dipship
Check again faggot, piccolo also managed to distract him at start, and later when they all came in cell had to waste his energy on knocking the over, which also enraged gohan.
No point with arguing with a low iq brainless ESL retard that only responds to 30% of the things you write. Feel free to concede, i might even change my mind and accept it this time, but i dont give any promises

that explains why i dont remember it. hey you know what. i think i remember the barrier from budokai tenkaichi. its a generic move for a lot of fighters and it does just that. it protects you briefly from any move.

and also i just fucking remembered. he totally fucking uses it in the android saga. i knew i remembered him using it before and i thought maybe i was thinking of gt but he definitely uses it against piccolo

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Well unless you’re Android 17 in which case your forcefields are somehow strong enough to rebound fucking Jiren attacks and your basic non-kaioken blasts can hurt his back if aimed properly.

>marrying a sex bot
>ever even fucking it
Was he perhaps unclear on this matter, 18?

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>Gogeta could start subsuming the multiverse Giygas-style?
i don't know why but i just find this funny

>its a generic move
Wow, that’s even dumber that nobody from Gohan’s cuck circle does it in the ToP then. Roshi gets the excuse of cleaning house and having UI in the manga, everyone else could’ve hung on for longer. Looking at you Tienshinhan. Why the fuck did the real you go over the arena with whatshisface when you can make clones. Just, why.

>he uses it in the android saga
Huh.

>”Trunks’ diary, day #187: Can’t sleep, androids are fucking above us. They knocked down another skyscraper last night. As they flew away 18 yelled something about my sensei having faggy clothes. We’re down another secret base, I’m starting to think they’re deliberately fucking with us by fucking on top of our stuff”

it's all fun and games until they wake buu up

>he already measured Zamasu fighting abilities back before training for mafuba
no he didnt. he literally didnt even know it required your strength or it would kill you. the exchange went like this
>hey roshi, seal that gay, if youre so great
>no you retard it works off your physical power and if i do it i will die and i already died once doing it
>wow, fuck it who cares i got senzu beans and i doubt i'll die from using it once
he didnt measure shit. he knows zamasu is so weak he doesnt even have to worry about dying from using it. despite that he went full power to cover his bases anyway and he was right that he wouldnt die from using it on someone as weak as zamasu

>Suddenly goku stands up
>His body multiplying the little amount of ki he has
>"Boy, you're stronger than I thought. Serves me right for holding back to gauge your power."
>Goku suddenly powers up
>SS1, SS2, SS3, the planets in the galaxy start shaking
>SSG, SSB, the entire universe is shaking
>Suddenly his hair turns white and he dissappears
>He reappears in front of Superman, retracts his arm and punches through Superman's heart, killing the man of pudding easily
>The last words Superman hears is "Hehe, nothing persnonel, kid"
>Goku then transports to Metropolis to fuck Lois Lane and Supergirl in a threesome

>he’s unscathed
Unscathed doesn’t mean he didn’t take any damage, we know this because Vegito decided to eat a senzu bean despite looking unscathed, meaning he retained the damage from Goku.
>even in the anime
The anime is irrelevant as it is a completely separate continuity, stop using it when talking about the manga.
>Goku said ssg was enough for him
He also said that Trunks would be enough for him so he’s clearly pretty weak.
Set your head canon aside and accept that the mangas powerscaling is consistent.

Doesn’t Buu never wake up if Babidi gets ganked? Pretty sure Future Trunks said Buu was never an issue in his timeline because unlike the Z-Retards he just fucking cut that bitch before he could get his bullshit going.

>Huh
i mean, i wasnt being vague here

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babidi is gonna harvest their fuck energy

Oh, I'd say its a given at some point
I mean, the animation compared to todays quality has been left behind, even though the scene composition is so good.

Especially since the original VAs are getting pretty old, a remake in the next 5 years would let japan recast everyone for that, while maintaining the OG crew to finish out super.

Transformers is going through much the same thing.

I'm not sure if I'd want a sailor moon crystal/ccs/nge style, where they try to maintain original asthetics but somewhat updated, or if I'd rather go with something like captain harlock, completely modernizing and updating the look

>Saitama

Yikes! Saitama isn't a gag character, he's simply the strongest in his verse without realizing it. It's not a gag when you put it in the proper context. Kid Goku was more of a gag character than Saitama and that ultimately makes Goku more of a gag character than Saitama.

Listen, we all know the real question is what happens when Darkseid tries to sit in Frieza’s hoverchair

>17 and 18 kill the human race
>imagine having a planet only for you and your sister
>this bug monster is hunting you down
>have to hide
>sometimes have to bail it out
>what used to be a fun predator vs pray has gone backwards in a horrible way
>all those times they have to hide in high places
imagine the sexual tension between the two in all that fear and adrenaline

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>we know this because Vegito decided to eat a senzu bean despite looking unscathed, meaning he retained the damage from Goku.
which makes even less sense because apparently a weakened Vegito can still defeat a God
>He also said that Trunks would be enough for him so he’s clearly pretty weak.
and this trunks SS2 apparently has the same power as SS3 Goku, which also coincides with my point where i stated that Zamasu is around SS3-SSG

Wait.
Wait, I distinctly remember that Imperfect Cell was weak enough Future Trunks anticlimatically shanked him to bits when they met. Are we sure two androids couldn’t take him before he presumably had a chance to drink Piccolo?

>this bug monster is hunting you down
He's actually weak as fuck because there's no one to absorb and Future androids are stronger than their present counterparts

also buu is around

It's not debunked, it just happens that Cell was too powerful to even be hurt by the increased numbers of Krillin's attack.

It's not that destructo disk cuts anything, but it's a technique that has a power value higher than Krillin's base one. So it usually hurts enemies when Krillin wouldn't stand a chance in hand to hand combat. But it didn't work for cell just because the destructo disk wasn't powerful enough, even when it was an attack that went beyond Krillin's base power level.

can babidi even revive Buu with android energy?

can't harvest anything if there is no life in the planet, doubt babidi would come to earth if he can't sense life energy

Android 17 was stacking up his force fields to prevent jiren from attacking him, but Jiren broke through those one by one.
You also don't know how much weaker Android 17 was. The recruitment arc showed him being able to be on par with SSB Goku, but the poachers came, so we don't know of he could have handled SSBKK.

>non-kaioken blasts
dude, even SSB Vegeta was damaging Jiren on multiple accounts. He wasn't THAT special.

he did manage to drink some cities thoe, and 17 and 18 are awfully slow at wiping the human race, but if cell isnt able to drink people he is fucked, cuz they will gang up on him

Missing the get for 2 posts.

probably

yea, i'd put him at least Kamicolo level which is still very manageable for 17

This. Ironically 17 and 18 saved the galaxy from Perfect Cell’s rampage simply by culling humanity down to the point where Cell is reduced to just this creepy bogeyman fuck slinking in the shadows.

Still not ever gonna wake up without Babidi to do it tho

>Babidi walks in on 17 pounding 18’s ass in the bushes
>that awkward silence as the months and months of brown incest cummies chunders out of 18’s ass while she tries to think of something to say to the first living being that’s dared showed it’s face ever since Gohan bought the farm
>”So uh...you fuck your sister here often too?”

Shit if everyone’s dead then odds are Spopovich’s dead too so Babidi more than likely doesn’t even have one of his most vital minions prior to Buu

That's why it's debunked. Numbers are all that matter in the end.

dabura is there

he can lock up 17 and 18 and make they fuck until they produce enough energy to wake buu up

>a weakened Vegito can still defeat a god
No, a weakened Vegito can land a powerful blow against an off guard Zamasu. He then eat a senzu bean and went blue.
>Zamasu is around ss3
So he’s clearly not that strong then? Not strong enough to make fused Zamasu ludicrously powerful.
Arguing with you is like arguing with a brick wall. You refuse to accept that gods can be damaged when taken by surprise in the manga for no other reason than your head canon. Accept that surprise attacks can hurt gods and realise that the manga has consistent scaling that doesn’t contradict anything.

See that’s the thing. Even if he needed to STACK the forcefield-like, let’s put aside quantity vs quality and skip the memes because we both know the story isn’t going to let 17 ever have more raw power than Jiren unless it forgets about Jiren.

I still find it fucking amazing 17 is making energy projections that the guy who was manhandling SSBs needs to actually put some modicum of effort into removing. Remember that time Bulma asspulled a forcefield around Vegetto and Fused Zamasu to prevent the SSB shockwaves from wrecking the planet? This is that, but way more.

>even SSB Vegeta
Didn’t he just knock him around and then push him over in kawaii form? The animu made a big point of singling out that shot as leaving an impact for some reason

who's the strongest character babidi could control?

i'd say kefla, saiyan minds are filthy

>Babidi walks in on 17 pounding 18’s ass in the bushes
he would probably just leave the fuck off the planet after that, also since androids give no power readings doubt he think anything of them, either that or 18 just snipes his head for interrupting their yosuga no sora live action adaptation

Have sex.

Could Babidi control Golden Huriza? I think the lizard's will is too strong if even SS2 Vegeta could throw him off.

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>So he’s clearly not that strong then? Not strong enough to make fused Zamasu ludicrously powerful.
yes he doesn't, Rose did
>You refuse to accept that gods can be damaged when taken by surprise in the manga
I'd refuse it if even chapter 3 of the manga itself refuse it, because Beerus literally took no damage at all and he's not a fusion being nor regenerative being, he can't heal his wounds, Vegeta's surprise attack did jack shit

youtube.com/watch?v=njCiVpjh8UM&feature=youtu.be&t=152

Vegeta landed a couple of hits on Jiren because Jiren wasn't taking him seriously. Vegeta literally says it.

it's pointless to argue about who hurt jiren since he was playing around until the 3rd omen

not Jiren thats for sure

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how would majin kefla be different?

i fucking doubt it, Friz its way way more prideful than Vegetable, and he is way stronger than what vegeta was at the time and he has also way more mental fortitude due to his time in hell

Man, I almost forgot Dabura was a thing before Xenoverse 2. How strong was he before getting the buff off “kili” or whatever? I think he was said to be around Cell level before magic tricks, and I thought Gohan was giving him trouble at the time although Buu cookie’d him in the end.

So I guess...the decisive factor is literally whether 17 decides to take up park ranging after a while. Because park ranging is apparently such a hardcore training method it lets you hold your own in SSB level fights.

Why is he such a chad?

>Filthy minds due to being a whore for "evil guy' in the past
>Friendless
he's in

Vegeta had a secondary emotion, pride, that led to throwing it off
I'm not sure frieza would have the same thing
especially once he became golden, his pride in being the strongest had already been thoroughly destroyed.
Not to mention the general destruction babidi would desire would coincide with his natural ability.

I'd say berserkers like broly and kale would be too difficult to control, due to their mental state being volatile.

Someone like hit, though, he probably could

Based analysis. Would probably go like this before Babidi gets a death beam to explode his fat disgusting fly skull.

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Vados. She's such a thot, babidi would get her easily

And then at some distant point in the future, Moro escapes.

It’ll be fine tho, if 17 keeps up that park life nothing will ever stop him.

>energy projections that the guy who was manhandling SSBs needs to actually put some modicum of effort into removing
I can remember him not being that bothered by them in the last episode of the anime.

A17 was still SSB level, so he should have been to do what Vegeta and Jiren did after Goku went UI for the time in the anime.

Vegeta was able to read his movements, close in and damage him multiple times before the his kawaii sparkly form.
And the unpopular opinion is that A17 was somewhat equal in strength

One Punch Man is pretty much a parody of shonens and also builds around the idea of being a hero.
Anyway, what I meant is that Saitama's thing is to be powerful, the most powerful, and that's relevant to his character in a way that goes beyond "getting stronger to beat the next enemy". Being the strongest is a distinct part of his character. Goku is powerful, sure, and a lot of times he is revered as the most powerful one, but that doesn't mean that's a core part of his character. He just happens to be powerful, but his character goes about being a warrior and having interesting fights.
If Goku loses a fight nothing happens, it doesn't change the core dynamic of the show or the character. Currently he's not even the most powerful character and that's fine. That's because being the most powerful one isn't a core trait for him.

Now this does happen with Saitama, all the show and his character going around the fact he is indeed the most powerful being in his universe. We can say the same about Superman, even though he is sometimes beaten, this is usually treated as a catastrophic disaster, it's something that breaks the normality of this character. Superman is about being the most powerful one, he is about being a god among ants, and a lot of his stuff goes around this.

And that's only one reason why Goku would never beat him.
The other being he's a comic character old as fuck with a shitload of different stories going around for him, anyone who knows enough about comics would be able to pull any crazy Superman feat out from his ass. Goku is an anime/manga character and, sure, his show is shit continuity and canon wise, but still he follows a single story with a kind of established set of rules.

The discussion about Superman and Goku fighting is silly and pretty much a meme-tier discussion. But, let's not fool ourselves, Superman would win any day and any time.

Kefla, Vados and 18 would be easy to control. He'd just have to put pictures of dicks & big power levels in their minds

I would argue two things in his favor

1. Time in hell enduring, to him, mental torture. He retreated to mental training and developed a strong enough will training to master his form while being unable to move.

2. Frieza is the most Pride filled character in the series in the biblical sin sense.

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>Toriyama says angels are not for lewd
>Whis is clearly faggot wuv for Beerus
>Margarita is blatantly the Harley to Belmond’s Joker
Ignore senile old man as usual

>OHOHOH do you think some kids tricks are going to affect someone like me?
>why dont you go try your tricks on some dirty monkey i bet it would work better with lower brain lifeforms
how does Vegeta respond?

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Sadly, yes. But they have this silly flexibility that might allow for some coherent answers.

In theory Krillin might be able to learn a super forbidden and secret technique that, even at his laughable power level, would allow him to hurt Beerus.

Still I wish we got old DB fights back, where techniques counted not for their power but for their varied uses.

>yes he doesn’t, rose did
Literally what? Want to try that one again buddy?
>beerus took literally no damage at all
He wasn’t scathed but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t damaged. Also consider he was punched, vegeta didn’t fire a beam at him. Also consider that Beerus mouth has his mouth wide open and eyes closed, so he clearly felt the pain. Also stop comparing BoG vegeta to Vegito, and stop comparing fused Zamasu to Beerus, you are once again using head canon to say these two are comparable without any evidence.

Imagine how frustrated Vados must be, having to watch over Champa every day

>2. Frieza is the most Pride filled character in the series in the biblical sin sense.
but let's not forget he'll throw away his pride when he's chopped into 2 back then, well i guess Vegeta also cried when he jobbed to frieza, i guess he can definitely counter it

People forget Frieza is also a psychic like Guldo and Chaotzu are. He has telekinetic abilities and likely a more developed brain that could resist mental compulsion.

That version of future trunks was SIGNIFICANTLY stronger than Kamiccolo though.
And, on top of that, Trunks also trained after beating the androids of his time just to be sure he could make short work of cell
remember how easily Vegeta smacked semi perfect cell down? Trunks was stronger than that.
Cell was at least as strong as either of the androids, cause he managed to kill Trunks before going back. We don't know how strong he was, because he had to revert to his larval state, losing power
>Ironically 17 and 18 saved the galaxy from Perfect Cell’s rampage simply by culling humanity down to the point where Cell is reduced to just this creepy bogeyman fuck slinking in the shadows
Nah, by the time Cell woke up, 17 and 18 were dead at trunks' hand.
Had Cell been awakened and 17 and 18 were still alive, he would have had enough strength to capture them. Remember, they didnt have 16

Reminder that DBZ is a primer on manhood.

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Juriza would definitely allow himself to be controlled for the power boost IF he knows he would get a power boost, if not he would probably not be affected at all

Well, pictures of bald midgets or her brother in 18’s case. She’s seen Vegeta and Goku and not given a fuck so it seems big powerlevels aren’t one of her turn ons.

Cash is, though.

This desu. He dived into a punch suns, shattered a soon to be born multiverse and knocked the multidimensional being who was trying to replace the current multiverse with that one on his ass and befriended him in one charge. And according to New Super-Man his powers are either ki, or function like ki.

Still no match for Apex Lex “Perfect Cell” Luthor (Forma de Martian Manhunter Absorcion) according to the november solicits tho. Have I mentioned DC basically copied the Perfect Cell arc for Lex Luthor with Martian Manhunter as the Android 18 lately? Because that’s a thing now.

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Yeah, but then when Goku took pity and was leaving, the Pride came boiling up and even cut in half Frieza spit his last at the departing Saiyan rather than escape himself. Frieza does not back down, just look at how he kept throwing himself at Toppo and Jiren throughout the tournament.

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>People forget Frieza is also a psychic like Guldo and Chaotzu are
I'm not 100% that the rock levitation is a anything more than ki manipulation though.

what about kefla

what would babidi try to do with his female puppets?

Hureeza does not tolerate anyone ruling over him. He was even thinking to himself about overthrowing ZENO, the absolute madman. Some fly super manlet wizard wouldn't even be a consideration

What about Vados and Kefla?

Now add the big flat line up top that is JIren except by actually alienating his wife and child instead of merely never having one Goku edges him out near the end, and add Roshi somewhere

He uses a paralysis technique on God of Destruction Toppo that he has trouble throwing off, and throws a mountain at Goku on Namek with his telekinesis

youtu.be/1Fb_h1Dc3gE

have you seen multiverse majin bra? pretty much the same shit, smug girl dial up to 100

>Vados
Gives so little of a shit I imagine she’d play along like what happened when someone tried to control Beerus for a while then wander off

>Kefla
Too autistic to control

Frieza was going to give up on immortality because he decided it was too boring and wish to be taller in the NuBroly movie.

Frieza hides it easily because of how dumb everyone else is in his setting, but deep down he’s as much of a dumb fight junkie as everyone else.

Does he do that in the manga?
the anime gives everyone powers they don't have in the manga

>Literally what? Want to try that one again buddy?
Rose is the powerhouse friendo he's the strength of the fusion along with SS3 tier Zamasu to complement his power
>He wasn’t scathed but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t damaged. Also consider he was punched, vegeta didn’t fire a beam at him. Also consider that Beerus mouth has his mouth wide open and eyes closed, so he clearly felt the pain.
yet not as fatal as Vegito blasting off Zamasu's arm off no? because that is as equivalent as Vegeta knocking off Beerus head with his first surprise punch
>Also stop comparing BoG vegeta to Vegito, and stop comparing fused Zamasu to Beerus
why not? it's the manga, Vegeta couldn't even draw a blood from massively powerful enemy compared to him, and a weakened fusion in his base form can somehow not only draw a blood but remove a whole arm from a god. and you've said that the manga is consistent in the damage, it doesn't matter whether if you're a god or not, if you got surprised the damage will be fatal, which is not the case against Beerus

Freeza's skill was psychokinesis according to Daizenshuu 7, and Cell's ability is the same, due to having Freeza's genetic material. There are some other characters that also possessed this same power, such as Chaozu, Guldo, and Buu, but it is not classified or treated as being ki based at all, but legitimate psychic abilities.

babidi is gonna want the majin succ

>Frieza was going to give up on immortality because he decided it was too boring
not quite
he realized through eternal torture that immortality might backfire on him
it did with garlic jr

>Frieza was going to give up on immortality because he decided it was too boring
bullshit, its more the idea that Friza is more terrified of the idea of getting put in a situation where his immortality would backfire
>what if i get sealed, or trapped or whatever
he still suffers from the idea of anything similar to the hell he already suffered before

I mean, I guess that's a fair point
goku definitely developed psychic powers via pure training

>Saitama's thing is to be powerful, the most powerful
In his own verse and that's really where the discussion ends. His strength was gained because he removed his limiters placed on humans by their God. Guess what? This God doesn't exist in the DBVerse. Saitamas feats matter and his most powerful feat is still below moon busting ergo DB (not DBZ or DBS) level.

>We can say the same about Superman
There are many characters stronger than Superman in his own verse.

>any crazy Superman feat out from his ass
We did that for years and Superman wasn't stronger than SS4 Goku. It's only now that we have one speed feat (yes, just one) that is higher than any feat Goku has done, but Supe's tanking ability is still below galaxy-level.

> Superman and Goku fighting is silly and pretty much a meme-tier discussion
That's because underage mem-babbies (not pointing fingers) are participating in what used to be a discussion filled with logic and science.

>Superman would win any day and any time
Hahahahaha

Lol didn't know about that new Lex arc. Gotta read that shit.

I hope DC doesn't feel to much pushed to make silly stories just to compete with Marvel and anime. It might lose the only edge it actually has.

you know who is actually weak to babidi's magic funtime?
Saitama

How far would she obey?

I'm not against numbers. It makes it easy to determine who the stronger fighter is and it gives you something to calculate if you love math.

>Still I wish we got old DB fights back, where techniques counted not for their power but for their varied uses
We might get Dragonball Naruverse after Vegeta has his Chakra, I mean Spirit training

>if you suck my dick you'll get stronger
>Really?
>its also good training for your neck
>HONTO?
*cue babidi's laugh*
you'll get away with a lot depending on how you ask it

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It’s so dumb on every level. You know most “big event” comics try to be all dramatic and pompous, or at least sell you a relatively serious conflict?

The current Justice League run is basically a shounen anime. They retconned Martian Manhunter into being Lex Luthor’s forgotten childhood friend who was captured and experimented on like fucking Elfen Lied. The Flash, Cyborg and John Stewart saved the earth from a predatory ultraviolet son by basically going into the collective consciousness and telling people to accept themselves for who they are like in Persona. The Monitor and Anti-Monitor have a brother called the World Forger and a more powerful MOM now.

Let that sink in. El Hermano de Anti-Monitor and La Grande Madre de Anti-Monitor is a canon character.

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what about banging

>accept themselves for who they are
So basically Tumblr?

>you know, your power boost is growing weaker
>huh? really?
>yup i need to recharge it
>ok no problem
>directly
bam done

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And Majin Vados?

A true waste given the need for more people in his timeline with a limited gene pool to work with (though that should be possible to fix). More strong people to defend the planet is worth overlooking his grudge. However, more importantly, what the FUCK is Popo doing? Why hasn't he gotten Earth a new guardian to act as psychopomp (if Baba isn't going to do it)? We just need somebody able to travel between Other World and Earth for at least reaching King Kai (since Goku wasn't interested in using him to keep on contact for some reason as if dying of that disease deprived him of a body in that timeline).

If able to relay the info to Bulma, she should be able to work on getting to New Namek (and from there bringing back Dende to take the mantle of Kami aside from making some wishes). For their needs, it is better to have one very strong wish (until destroying the model to make another with more options or whatever). Not sure that they couldn't keep the balls in RoSaT until ready to use (being objects, the rule for staying shouldn't apply even before Trunks can get strong enough to 'shout' his way out). Unless able to catch them before they can get away, it seems unwise to wish from inside there.

His failure to find out the location of New Namek from the timeline he saved (before his own) and learn IT (for the purpose of just going there without a ship) seems like pretty big fuck ups. If that jackass Gokek can learn the move, Trunks should learn it even faster. I recall some talk of signatures on Namek being too weak (when King Kai is in Other World with one at below 8K, but Goku detects that just fine before being pointed in the right direction for the Namekians). Meeting King Kai (again) would help here. Or just cashing in Goku's 'one day' via Baba or some new 'Kami'. His tragic timeline only remains so for failure to explore all options (and people just letting it be so).

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it'll only work if there's an actual, big power boost though

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It was really more of a Persona thing in context desu. Did I mention the Monitor’s race is called the Super Celestials?

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Hug me till we go back to the era of dark, serious, human stories.

I think Goku stopped caring once his friends got into the other world, he probably asked for Vegeta to be allowed to train with them and forgot about Gohan

One more because I want y’all to know I am not exaggerating. She literally looks like rule 63 El Hermano with DNA hair and anorexia.

Trunks quit his time patroller job because he saw Gohan about to job and felt super bad.

He has never been the most responsible pair of hands.

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Bro I can’t hug you for an entire year, and the solicits already told me this shit’s building into a confrontation between Perfect Lex and the Batman Who Laughs.

>that promise

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But it's a silly concept. Determining who is stronger shouldn't be that easy. There shouldn't be a set number saying this character would never be able to beat this other character without some crazy power boost. That's completely erasing the smarts and skill dimensions from a fight.

You trying to imply Gokek could have bested Buu on his own?

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>He dived into a punch suns
That's like Goku diving in a pile of food.
You have to take into acocunt that his power absorbs the sun, which does not mean that he can destroy stars like the Z-fighters can. So, that's a false equivalence if you compare him to fighters who don't have star-absorption abilities.

He also tanked the shockwave of 50 Supernovae, but the radiation would have obliterated him. This feat still holds less power then is available in a galaxy and Goku is far above a galaxy buster in Super and close to one in Z.

>shattered a soon to be born multiverse and knocked the multidimensional being who was trying to replace the current multiverse with that one
Who is this? I hope it's not Imperiex, because boy you'd be wroooong

this seems more like a mechanical lovecraft shit than shonen

>rose is the powerhouse
...that’s what I said, I’m not sure why you felt you had to bring that up.
>surprise punch
A surprise punch is not the same as a surprise laser beam. Especially when said laser beam could be seen from space.
>if you got surprised the damage will be fatal, which is not the case against Beerus
No, I said that specifically the goons laser beam and vegitos laser beam were fatal, and I never said that a punch would be fatal. In fact, the manga is consistent in making surprise physical attacks against gods not do too much damage (though they do certainly do more damage than they usually would) examples include Vegeta punching Beerus, who despite being unscathed is knocked back and appears to have taken damage, and regular zamasu kicking ssg vegeta, who despite being unscathed is also knocked back and appears to have been damaged.

>wanted a challenge
Only to realize too late...

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How much coke does one have to take to come up with that shit?

Just two doctors going over a difficult patient, are they?

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>Sealed in the source wall?
Didn't Superboy destroy a part of the source wall with the help of Lex Luther's son's magic to escape from the paradise or pocket dimension?

>things this is applicable
Got a picture of his head being stepped on from canon to match the fan art?

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what about ass

*thinks
Sorry, bit my tongue.

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Well, that and it was in a higher dimension that was implied to be literally the friends we made along the way. Again, totally dead serious. You know how imagination is the 5th dimension in DC? Well the power of NAKAMA is implied to be the 6th in the windup to that punch.

>Who is this?
This nigga right here .

dc.fandom.com/wiki/Alpheus_(Sixth_Dimension)

All of it. And it’s still cheesy, banal shit compared to the Decreator or the Seven Unknown Men.

That was a while ago but probably. Shit breaks every time someone puts a good effort into breaking it, it also broke when Mr. Miracle wielding the Anti-Life Equation clashed with Infinity Man and in this case it broke because the Overmonitor amped the Justice League who were wielding miracle metal to heal all of existence and chain up the literal Batgod of nightmares.

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Because it would have been funny.

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And Vegeta is undefeated against Goten, too.

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That's how it works in real life though. Mike Tyson has larger numbers than us. He would win 99% of the time BUT if you're very lucky, you might have a technique to immobilize him. The problem is that you can't turn this exception into a rule. An arm lock is a skill, but you'll rarely be able to use it against stronger opponents like Mike Tyson.
You can also take into account that power is determined by multiplying your mass with your speed and realize that only that matters, because a person of 300lbs who can run 300 feat in 15 seconds, will have a better chance of winning from a person who is 150lbs and can run just as fast.
That's how simple it is. Now could the 150lbs really never win?? Of course not, but it's going to very difficult for him to win.

I don't know about all that, but Vegeta is undefeated against Goku.

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What position?

2-1 (Vegeta), soon.

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You are not getting the idea. I'm saying characters like Saitama or Superman end up being stronger cause the idea of the character is to be the strongest one. Trying to dumb that down to comparing universes kills everything that makes those characters who they are.

Also Superman doesn't have to be literally the strongest one for the character to be around that. Sure, there are some stupidly powerful characters in the comicverse (Goku wouldn't also stand a chance against them, by the way) but the fact that Superman is god-like remains. He is not only a symbol of justice, but also a symbol of power, we all know shit is going crazy when Superman gets serious (which he rarely does due to being able to obliterate an enemy and everything around while going serious). Ever noticed how evil versions of Superman need to be beaten by another Superman? That's because the idea is that he is that powerful.
He doesn't need to train (though, canon-wise, he's also an expert martial artist), he actually does the opposite and retrains himself all the time.

If we go down and dirty with feats Goku would surely lose. As a general rule there are not established limits for Superman's power. As far as speed goes it is not only a feat but it is also established that Superman can be faster than light. And that's only taking account of what's been literally said in comics, if we try to analyze some speed feats we might go even further.

IDK why fanboys like to discuss this so much. You don't have to be fine with it, you can say Superman is broken for being so stupidly powerful, but denying his power is just silly.

We all have characters we like that are not the most powerful ones, most of them would lose any day against Goku. So what? does that make them worse characters?

I don't get this power hard-on about Goku. He's still by far one of the most powerful characters around.

That, literally, made me laugh.

mating press

can she have majin saiyan babies?

>Goku jobs to 15 Vegeta in one go
Is that still just 3-0 or are we no longer stat padding in Bush League? Rookie numbers no good now? Got to pump them up? What's the rush? They have all eternity to rack 'em up.

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good question

what about majin vados

Vados seems the type of character that even with mind control she would fuck you over, she probably would tease babidi for being a useless piece of shit and saying
>dont worry master ill help you since you are such a waste of space and cant do it yourself

>it was in a higher dimension
I'd have to read it then, because people misinterpreted Superboy beating the 5th dimensional imp as well.
Superboy used magic to get to into the 5th dimension. A 2 dimensional object couldn't shit in our dimensions and we can't do anything in the 5th, but if we were converted into the 5th with magic, we'd be just as strong as 5th dimensional beings at the very least.
DC can't into science, we know this, but We still have to convert the feats so they make sense to have compare them to the DBVerse, you can't say "OH, he's 300 dimensional and Supes defeated him, so Supes must be stronger than Goku

>Shit breaks every time
That would make Monitor's mom pretty weak, right?

> Mr. Miracle wielding the Anti-Life Equation clashed with Infinity Man
>the Overmonitor amped the Justice League who were wielding miracle metal to heal all of existence and chain up the literal Batgod of nightmares
WTF am I reading? It sounds awesome, but WTF am I reading?

babidi would have to punish and make her do something embarassing then

...

Skill matters a lot in fighting. Bigger guys usually have an advantage, that's for sure, but it's not crazy at all to see someone smaller end up winning due to skill.
Specially if we consider an all-out fight. In sports there are rules that usually favor even further one of the fighter. If we put a martial artist against Tyson in a box match, the martial artist would have a slim chance of winning. But take that to a street fight and probably Tyson would be the one with the odds against him.
That's just to put a silly example.

Also take account that, even while it would be harder to apply any lock on a bigger, stronger enemy, most of those techniques are aimed to exploit structural weaknesses of human body, so even a weakling should be able to apply a successful lock if done right.

Again, I'm not saying size doesn't matter, but skill is a decisive factor too.

Nah, he lives to serve.

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>pride
>Plan B
Just like when he brought daddy along.

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>crying
Even the Pickle has done it (over some kid he barely knew for just talking to him before his time was up). Gokek, too. Most higher beings do this. Don't think lizards have that capacity, but they can wail and seethe pretty good.

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>does not back down
He was too scared to (and then it was too late).

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>I'm saying characters like Saitama or Superman end up being stronger cause the idea of the character
So, you're trying to have a battle based on concepts.
Well, the protagonist always wins, so it would be a draw.

>Superman gets serious (which he rarely does)
Superman gained his limiters when he was in school as a kid and was so mad that he punched a kid with all his might and broke his nose.
Kid Goku was lifting cars and headbutting bullets at that age...

>He doesn't need to train
Training is improving yourself, in the case of martial arts it's for power and/or skill
Superman needs to sundip everytime he's in a pinch, which is literally the same as Goku hiding in the RoSaT. So, no, he does need to improve himself and he does so regularly (once even for 10.000 years), but also for shorter periods of time like when he had to sun dip to defeat Imperiex who was no higher (canonically) than Galaxy-tier.

>As a general rule there are not established limits for Superman's power.
The radiation of 50 Supernovae, Mageddon, Imperiex, no, we have clearly established limits on Supermans power. Everytime a character beats Superman and he has to get help, we have established a limit.
He's not that different from Goku at all.
You're just viewing it through your rose-colored glasses

>it is also established that Superman can be faster than light.
Even Radditz was canonically established to be FTL....

>Superman is broken for being so stupidly powerful
He isn't, it's rather that fanboys misinterpret feats. Like "Superboy beats 5th dimensional beings, or Superboy destroyed the source wall" I have showed you that these events were more complicated and less impressive than that, because of magic.

>I don't get this power hard-on about Goku.
That's some pot and kettle bullcrap.
You're literally shilling cape-shit in a DB thread.
You have no right to complain, because you ARE the problem you're complaining about.

>stopped caring when people he could fight got there
How very like him, actually.

>asked for Vegeta to get a pardon for WAKU WAKU
He fucking would try it. Don't think Enma would go for it at this juncture, however. Given this fact, he would need to (for lack of canon alternatives) see about unfucking things. He needs his fix (2-0).

>forgot about Gohan
Given how amazingly weak he was despite all that training, all the zenkai, etc., he may have done so from disgust (rather than just lacking the ability to love beyond friendship). While not able to be a proper father, he can still be disappointed in his son.

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>Again, I'm not saying size doesn't matter
I did say two guys of the same speed, but one is considerably bigger.
Who would win?

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>have to read it then
Do so with a child’s open mind, innocence and shit taste for best results is my recommendation, the new series resembles a saturday morning cartoon more than Justice League Unlimited the actual saturday morning cartoon.

Yeah, a lot of people oversell Prime Time: In many ways he’s like Jiren, raw power but not untouchable. Technically non-magical processes such as the Time Trapper’s (who may or may not be a sentient timeline whose identity changes in competition with the main one, at one point taking on the form of future Superboy Prime) temporal banishment or the 3 Flashes shoving him into the Speed Force. The new JLD run confirmed what a lot of old school Vertigo comics and technically Promethea since that was canonised in the new JLA run implied: That DC magic only has rules because the most senior wizards decided it should. Shit gets so crazy, once Wonder Woman’s team use Mordru’s jewel to become Lords of Chaos they’re tearing apart the actual comic panels to fight back against Nabu’s (yeah he’s an asshole again) team of Lords of Order. Oh, did I mention the Lords of Order aren’t even primordial gods-they’re posthuman wizards who forged a foothold in the Sphere of the Gods with magic for themselves?

>DC can’t into science
Billy Batson’s wisdom of Solomon from Thunderworld Adventure summed it up best: In DC, “magic and science are two sides of the same coin”.

And that’s why you have Dr. Sivana yelling equations to walk through walls and giving himself his own superman-like transformation with the power of the fundamental forces.

>pretty weak
It’s...very unclear desu. It seems she’s not at full power and the multiverse embracing supervillainy is amping her to it.

>WTF
Death of the New Gods, the series people really don’t like to admit is technically canon because it involves Darkseid using a formula to hijack the power of friendship and overpower the Source itself.

And uh, the second one is Dark Nights Metal which is about as retarded as the current JL but tries to act all spoopy. The Wild Hunt side story by Grant Morrison is legit good though.

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That would be a rare occurrence. Even if it happened we'd have to take skill in account. Martial prowess can be decisive.

If both had the same martial skill and speed but one had an edge on size then, of course, I'd put my money on the big guy. He might still lose, but the odds are on his side.

>Well, the protagonist always wins, so it would be a draw.
I'm just saying character concept give him an argumentative edge. We should leave plot stuff aside cause everyone loses to Batman then.

>Superman gained his limiters when he was in school as a kid and was so mad that he punched a kid with all his might and broke his nose.
I can tell you know about comics but maybe Superman is not your cup of tea?
Some versions (or a single one, I'm not sure) showed Superman developing his powers later in life, but most would agree Superman at a young age already have a considerable power. Clark as a young boy, not controlling himself at all and punching a kid on the face and just breaking his nose sounds like something highly atypical. Even as a kid Clark would kill anyone with a serious punch or, at least, cause serious injuries.

>He doesn't need to train
I meant that as not being part of the character. Superman is all the time super powerful and he just needs a boost time by time or needs to develop himself in very specific situations. Goku needs to train all the time to improve himself, is a core trait of his character.
I said that just to show how Superman being powerful is just a given, while the "fun" from a show like DBZ comes from watching a character improving himself and beating the odds.

>As a general rule there are not established limits for Superman's power.
Seriously? with that I was referring to how inconsistent comics can be while measuring characters. One day he is strong enough to lift a car, and the next day he's carrying a bunch of planets through space. We can always search and find underpowered and overpowered versions of comic characters, specially the most famous ones. That's why their limits are usually blurry.

>it is also established that Superman can be faster than light.
Superman can be billions of times faster than light. And no, even though Goku is much faster than light, he is not THAT fast.

>That would be a rare occurrence.
It actually wouldn't. Usian Bolt is a sprinter, but he's huge and marathon runners are tiny and skinny.
The power to strike fast comes from your movement (hip movement), but also your fast twitch muscle fibers.
In other words, Tyson would have been slower if he was skinnier.

Skill is sometimes irrelevant, unless you solely aim for weak points.
That being said, you can train those. You can increase your abdominal muscle to protect your solar plexus. Thus, your muscles have to become bigger to protect and attack. Then when you realize that huge muscles require a lot of energy, you search for a way to increase your stamina, so that won't be an issue anymore.

This how you operate at a pro-level and not the mindless street brawling.

You can bring in Bruce lee, if you want, but very few people would say that Bruce lee could defeat Mike Tyson.

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I don't really find the DCverse that hard to understand, but that might be why I'm not as impressed by it as most readers.
I grew up with it after all, but this is also why I can notice that fans are taking feats out of proportion and context.
Mostly it's because of the naming used in the DCVerse or like "Superman holds a black hole", but when you look at the physics behind it, you realize that he's holding a Earth worth of mass, something which he has done multiple times before...

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Yeah pretty much, you get it. I only got into comics months ago but even I know shit like that time Billy Batson punched a “black hole” into reality wasn’t an impressively physics realistic black hole just a rip in space, and while Hawk got innate time powers after upgrading into Monarch then Extant, he needed outside help in the form of Parallax Hal to be a major threat, and later the Mobius Chair plus the Worlogog and the end of the universe become practically the god of his own timeline.

Ironically the fans also downplay or overlook shit like Batson tanking a bomb that turned him inside out by rending space with his divinely granted durability, or the offhanded mention at the end of Age of Magic that human souls are stronger than demon souls.

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