Anime(more specifically Shonen) used to be about growth and overcoming ones' weaknesses by finding your potential and sharpening it through hard work and determination. The belief was that there is no such thing as talent, there is just people who train more and who are more determined, or who have bigger purpose
Now, anime reflect our current generation. We believe in genetic determinism, As a result, we do no effort and stay in mediocrity if we don't see any talent in us.
Compare Hajime No Ippo to One Punch Man. In old school shonen like that, the character starts off by being a weak guy without any friend, to become a world class fighter. Meanwhile in modern anime like OPM, the character is "just like that", there is no struggle, no growth, he is just genetically like that. It reflects our generation of losers who just stay in mediocrity instead of standing up and working. I think the transition between environmental determinism to genetical determinism in Shonen happened after Naruto. Naruto was the last anime of the environmental determinist genre.
Not quite, OP. One Punch Man did invest effort into become who he is today. The training simply unlocked his innate potential. If anything, One Punch Man shows how gene-environment interactions work. Before he started training he was an ordinary guy (with a head full of hair) with unknown innate potential. Then after his rather normal workout routine, his innate potential awoke. Do you know complex traits and complex diseases? They are the same. You have a huge innate genetic potential to get say, Crohn's disease. But you stay away from environmental triggers and can live your life without a distrurbed bowel. However, a single trigger can be enough to develop this horrible bowel disease.
At any rate, neither environmental not genetic determinism is healthy. Environmental gives hope to those who have little innate ability while genetic downplays what you can do yourself. It is best to study the cards that you were dealt with and then dedicate effort to something that you'll likely succeed at. I wanted to serve in the army to continue the family tradition, but my blood is pretty poor and I bleed worse than the average person. So instead I studied STEM because I was good at it. I can still draw my war machines and calculate if they'd be feasible.
Ayden Campbell
>Naruto was the last anime of the environmental determinist genre. Of course it's always the Narutard who always compare a joke character like Saitama to an actual MC....
If by Naruto you mean One Piece sure. Of the Big 3 Luffy is the only one where training played a larger part than genetics or given powers. Ichigo was practically created by directed Eugenics and Naruto is the reincarnation of a dog.
Christopher Jackson
If you are going to note the fact that Naruto is the reincarnation of a dog, then you should note the fact that Luffy ate a Devil Fruit. And Naruto still had to work hard to be good, when everyone looked down upon him and considered him to be a joke.
Bentley Peterson
Ippo is only hot shit because of his genes though. His Dad was a boxer too before he died. Kimura and Aoki work just as hard as Ippo but they are relegated to comedy jobber status because of their genes.
Ryan Gutierrez
>We believe in genetic determinism, As a result, we do no effort and stay in mediocrity if we don't see any talent in us.
This is stupid. People who are talented have to put in enormous effort to train that talent. If untalented people give up early when they realize how little potential they have, that's good because they aren't wasting their time for a goal they will never reach.
"I could have been something, man" is an attitude for losers. Face up to the fact if you are or aren't talented, so you can live to your fullest.
Jaxson Rivera
I mean, Ippo too. He was an ordinary guy but he actually was extremely strong, a skill he attained from years of helping his mom's fishing business by carrying packages(though it may be partly innate). He didn't know that so he got bullied all the time. Then he discovered boxing and actually used that unknown potential of his, and then sharpened it through hard work and determination.
Was his dad's dad a boxer?
>Kimura and Aoki work just as hard No.
Wyatt Ward
I have to admit, you had me until "the character is just like that". Nice job OP
Naruto being the reincarnation of a bitch is simply the third bit of nonsense powerups he gets, the first is the Kyuubi and the 2nd is that he's from a clan with super chakra.
Jacob Reed
>had to work hard >has unlimited chi pools compared to every other character
He literally brute forced all of the early arcs with his genes over cunning or hard work.
Granted, Luffy has eugenics on his side too, but in that universe anyone can make it to that power level (Coby being the most obvious example)
Ryder Gonzalez
>Naruto was the last anime of the environmental determinist genre.
Jason Scott
All sports anime are like that. Compare Hajime no Ipo with Kuroko or Yowamushi, not with OPM.
Leo Mitchell
>It reflects our generation of losers who just stay in mediocrity instead of standing up and working. Or perhaps it's because in their eyes the amount of work required seems insurmountable, and the rewards seem so meager. It's kind of like why isekai has its appeal; setting aside the "cheats" and various extra innate abilities, they're living in a game world where every action gives them experience and allows them to progress. There are no societal limits or hierarchies that can't be surpassed.
Connor Ross
>Sangoku has to work hard to be on the level of Gods! If Krillin was working just as hard as Goku, Krillin would be on the same level and could even stand a chance against Beerus! This is how you sound OP.
Someone missing the point that one punch man isn't actually about one punch man. Yes he's the titular character and drives the story forward, but the story spends most of its time on the side characters.
If you somehow got to Mumen Rider story and and never realized the was the best hero, you need to need to go to the doctor because you don't have two braincells to rub together.
Joseph Reed
DBZ is pretty depressing from Krillin's point of view.
Or I think they're missing that the whole point of one punch man is that he's overpowered on purpose to show the nihilistic aspect of power creep.
Lincoln Barnes
Naruto literally needed to do the bare minimum to be that strong I remember in the end there was a joke that naruto needed to study and train to become hokage because he's been such a lazy piece of shit
Elijah Gonzalez
Literally the main theme of One piece is fate. Same with Naruto.
Levi Diaz
Fate vs hard work aren't contrasting themes,one could work hard and it still could be because of his fate.
Nolan Nelson
>Compare Hajime No Ippo to One Punch Man At that moment I know it was bait
Cameron Gutierrez
You're comparing spocon and (not!) battle superhero manga. If you compare spocons or superpowered battles, than you'll find that not much changed in that regard.
Carter Russell
> Naruto > Power not determined genetically or by something predetermined
Angel Scott
Yeah, and even Saitama did his "train hard to get a bullshitly OP powerup" routine. It's just that got all powerups at once rather than between/during story arcs.
Michael Watson
>Naruto was the last anime of the environmental determinist genre. Naruto is literally the poster boy of genetic superiority
One Piece is about following your dreams first and foremost. Luffy won't become the Pirate King because it was in his fate but because he consistently pushed himself by taking on bigger and bigger threats. He already had extraordinary potential, but it's likely the fact that he jumped into the Grand Line and challenged guys like Crocodile, Lucci, and Moria right away that has led to him becoming a prestigous pirate.
Besides we don't even know what Oda feels about fate yet considering only Blackbeard has made it a point to keep harping on about it.
It's weird how people always forget the training Naruto had under Jiraya.
Naruto is more purpose/emotion based anyway, same with One Piece.
Nathan Morgan
>in OPM the MC is just like that, he is genetically like that >Saitama is genetically like that Most retarded post seen in a while. It's literally the complete opposite: in a world where people have esper powers, become cyborg, are super genius or have the potential to become strong through training, Saitama becomes the strongest just by working out extremely hard without having no talent at all, in opposition to every other shonen (both old and new) where the MC has always the potential to become the strongest even if he always starts as an underdog. "You, that play with genetics to create neo-humans, you will never be on this level, because the strenght of we human is to change ourselves!". Did you even watch OPM? This was on 3° ep. 5/10, you made me reply
Jason Flores
There are literally tons of analysis on fate in One piece. I haven't kept up with it but fate in one piece is a general term used in critical analysis community.
Jason Price
Fate isn't (necessarily) opposed to free will or hard work.
>Dragon Ball Genetics + Hard training. Goku is part of the strongest alien race. He is one of the weakest saiyan, (training and determination fill the gap), but still has a potential that no earthling can have >One Piece Genetics + Hard training. Luffy is the son of the greatest revolutionary (and arguably one of the strongest characters), the nephew of a Marine legend, has the "D." in his name and on top of that has a Devil fruit. Determination and training complete the character growth. >Naruto Genetics + Hard training. Born with the power of the 9 tails fox inside him, can rely on a chakra 4 times bigger than Kakashi's one. Hard training and motivations complete his growth. >Bleach Same as above >MHA Same as above >HxH Same as above, but much less evident, i will give it to you >Saint Seiya Same as above Meanwhile >One Punch Man Only hard training
Zachary Wright
It's the opposite you sperg. Ippo starts out as a super strong guy with an inherent talent for boxing, and saitama starts out as a nobody who works incredibly hard to become strong. got me to respond 6/10 bait
Jordan Hernandez
Ippo had hard training before boxing (carrying packages of fish) to become that strong.
Josiah Diaz
>Meanwhile in modern anime like OPM, the character is "just like that", there is no struggle, no growth, he is just genetically like that.
So what you're saying is that you never watched OPM?
Ryan Howard
OPM is a seinen manga satire
Chase Morales
This, except Saint Seiya.
Xavier Diaz
only the webcomic is satire
Elijah Williams
Well 17 is up there with the Gods and Roshi could dance with Jiren despite being a retired old man so let's just say "maybe"
Colton Hernandez
>>MHA >Same as above have to interject, Deku was canonically a genetic reject just by virtue of being quirkless in a quirk based society. and even if he DID have a quirk, his genetic disposition would be somewhere between weak levitation and fire breathing, which is still painfully weak comparatively. Only genetics he has going for him is his hyper autism Deku's situation is building his body to be able to handle the kickback from the mother of all shotguns
Brayden Long
>Fuck everyday with a human that has been genetically modified to be an absolute 10/10 (Android 18) >Have a cute, obedient daughter with that 10/10 >Have actual friends who would literally sacrifice themselves to save your life.
>comparing a serious sport anime with a parody of shonen
Michael Williams
Nah,every shonen mc is special as fuck
Jacob Perry
Special because they have strong purposes and determination.
Nathaniel Cooper
Is big genital despised in Japan? I'm asking because in Hajime No Ippo, Takamura uses this to tease Ippo, and one time he says that girls are going to despise him if they know how big his thing is.
Jason Green
You're way off the mark. The problem is that the concept of the role-model protagonist has died out in anime in favor of self-inserts. Instead of >I wanna be like X! you might hear >X is so relatable!
Also OPM is not a good example at all since it's meant to be a parody of overpowered characters.
