Carole & Tuesday

Can't believe BONES made this bore-fest their anniversary project.

"You are paying HOW much? I'll get right onto it"

Say what you want, I kinda like this crappy show, can't wait for A.I. dude to kiss Angela.

I dropped it after two episodes; it was way too boring.

>Say what you want
F*ggot

Ertegun is shit.

I like it but it pales in comparison to Dandy and Bebop mostly because the characters are not very fun.
Ertegun is great but has little screentime much like Gus and even Roddy, they are background decoration.
Dont tell me an Ertegun+Roddy episode wouldnt have been fun.
It stays too close to traditional music tropes and doesnt take advantage of the wacky things from the setting.

I was watching it but dropped it because the characters were boring, the setting was not interesting, and the plot was cliche. I can take some of those things but all together and there's nothing left to actually enjoy from the show.

>Is this the most unpopular series on Yea Forums? Would it work better if whole series was about best boy Johnny Ertegun?

Wait until Netflix releases the entire thing

>It doesn't feel like an anime at all but more like an American TV shows. The themes it has like Angela's drug thing simply wouldn't fly in other Japanese media or an anime not done by the industry's biggest Westaboo.

And that's bad because?

twitter.com/ActionZacku/status/1169686730091286528

>SPOILER: CAROLE AND TUESDAY is Watanabe's strongest work since COWBOY BEBOP - this is a show that empathizes with artists and people of color, has beautiful music, a miraculous dub, and digs its hand right inside the music industry. This is the good stuff - don't miss it.

There are currently airing seasonal anime that don't even get threads, C&T at least has people dedicated enough to the show to make threads for it.

>I like it but it pales in comparison to Dandy and Bebop mostly because the characters are not very fun.
Dandy was aggressively hit and miss and the characters were one-note and mostly forgettable

>Spoiler
>doesn't even spoil anything
What is it with Westerners and caring about spoilers so much. They're so squeamish about spoilers that they even put it on things that don't spoil anything.

I'm glad tranny is dead, now time for Angela to kick the bucket so her A.I. can take the spotlight.

Also MAKE MARS GREAT AGAIN with Valerie!

Sometimes people lose their touch. It happens. Like how steven king has some good books and several others even he doesnt give a shit about

>steven king

>It's kinda jarring it's from the same director who did Cowboy Bebop and Samurai Champloo
Not really. C&T play up the same beats as both being a smorgasbord of its own theme while constructing a narrative based on that. Bebop was with film with every episode exploring a different genre. Champloo was screenplay with every episode taking the episodic adventure to its limits, Dandy was animation with every episode using a different style of animation to explain the multiverse theory and C&T is music with every episode exploring a different genre of music.

Go watch Steven Universe, dumb cunt

When is Cunt & Trunny going to explore jazz, classical, electroacoustic or ambient music? All I can hear is the most generic pop.

>When is Cunt & Trunny going to explore jazz, classical, electroacoustic or ambient music?
That was what Mars Brightest arc was for.

>Music Festival
>Mars Brightest

Attached: 1560400791158.jpg (911x1024, 80K)

If it's unpopular it's because this is Watanabe's worst show and it's not even close. It's just fucking bad in almost every way.

>If it's unpopular it's because this is Watanabe's worst show

Attached: 18981?region=US&size=952x536.jpg (952x536, 107K)

Angela sung a jazz solo in the latest episode

I didn't imply that it was bad (it kind of is, but for reasons unrelated to its themes), all I said is that its themes and other stuff are not typically anime and if anything is closer to Western dramas.

So slightly off topic but still somewhat relevant to this thread, what is the difference between director and chief director? Thats been Watanabe's credit for Carole and Tuesday and Space Dandy. But even then, each episode of Space Dandy had its own episode director. So when an episode is episode directed by for example Masaaki Yuasa, what are Watanabe and Shingo Natsume doing?

>It doesn't feel like an anime at all but more like an American TV shows.
THIS.
Fuck those faggots who think Anime is still anime if it caters to american audiences.

>what is the difference between director and chief director?
I think this depends on a case by case basis. For AOT, the chief director Araki made the important narrative and structure decisions and shaped the spirit of the work while the director Koizuka was in charge of the actual creation of the series itself. This is a similar case with Space Dandy where Watanabe was chief director and Natsume was the director now that show was all Narsume despite Watanabe being the face of the production.

>So when an episode is episode directed by for example Masaaki Yuasa, what are Watanabe and Shingo Natsume doing?
They have to assign who does what and to the actual direction the episode takes place while the episode director essentially does what he wants, they essentially have the final say into what actually goes into the episode but the majority of that show was an animator's playhouse.

that was not jazz lmao fucking hell

It was dumbass.

>lmao

Attached: 1537318524440.gif (375x300, 2.24M)

Ertegun OVA fucking when

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Because it didn't turn out to be yuri. If Carole nd Tuesday had kissed by episode 10 Yea Forums would have been all over it. Even if it does turn out to be yuri it's too late

sad but true

Even this one at the very least had motorcycle scene
C&T is just horrendous all the way through

It had some 40yr lesbians though

Your tears are delicious
There's many problems with this show but not devolving to yurishit is not one of them

Watanabe hasn't been good since Champloo

>Hasn't seen Baby Blue

Watanabe is a good director but that has nothing to do with the writing, he has directed shit like Zankyou no Terror

The blatant political slant is a notable problem.

It's got some good kino in it tho.
youtube.com/watch?v=xqWivrmIujk

Maybe someone kidnapped him back then, that ending with helicopter and fag being shoot was too hilarious.

So what's gonna be that 7 minute miracle they talking about before each goddamn episode?

It just couldn't maintain the highs it had during the god tier Mars Brightest arc.
Some BS about C&T stopping a war or preventing Hillary Trump from getting elected probably.

What do you think jazz is, exactly?

>The blatant political slant is a notable problem.
What's problematic about it?

It has the subtlety of an elephant and the insight of a baboon.

Why is Zac such a fucking tool?

Yuri would not make this show better, much less good.

It was just kinda okay and there's better stuff to watch. They should have focused on the careers of two struggling musicians and not delved into obvious "takes" on american and european politics. Also doesn't help that the music is, well, kinda mediocre honestly. But I'm just an old fart so what the fuck do I know. Ertegun was a delight whenever he showed up.

It’s a yuri

It’s better than champloo bitch

animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2019-09-08/the-list-the-top-5-shinichiro-watanabe-anime/.150866

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>Too bad she's not white though...

She’s not?

No C&T had the mermaid sisters

Terror is trash from start to finish

>struggling musicians and not delved into

They did. Tobe called their music shit and Tuesday has to express herself so her mom can stop being a bitch

I don't even know what is the show direction right now, and we are juts 2 episodes away from the end, like, what the fuck, what was the point of the stalker, what is the point of the drugs, what is the point of the immigration, what is the point of Hillary, I mean, we knew Hillary was going to come and fuck things up from the beginning, but again, we are 2 episodes away from the motherfucking ending, you couldn't tell a simple story in just 24 fucking episodes? Yeah, a really bad show overall, this either will end in the most gay possible way or they will announce a S2, 2 situations that would only cement this show as the worst Watanabe ever.

C&T didn’t have careers as easy as Angela did.

Tuesday is timid a got drunk on their 1st stage performance and the crowd hated them. Carole can't keep a job. C&T were both out of sync during the 2nd round of American idol arc because Tuesday isn't good at speaking up to people. Carole can't interact with her dad. They didn't sign the American idol contract so C&T had to work as indie artists. ertegun called their music generic without listening to it first. they write their songs themselves too. Tobe calls their music shit most of the time. they were nobodies before

Angela had it very easy in the beginning. Angela was popular before she became a singer and was super confident. She was a star already before and Tao was helping her out. She didn't have to audition for American idol because she is already a celebrity. She won American idol and signed the contract. her song “breath again” was #1 on the billboard charts while C&T “army of 2” was #48. when ertegun(a big name artist) was a judge he said Angela would be the only artist he would want to collaborate with (which he did even when he was at C&T's house and used Carole’s keyboard ). she won the Grammys too even if she couldn’t enjoy the win.

This and the part with the black_knight stalker was probably the 1st time Angela actually struggled.

>this show as the worst Watanabe ever.
Nope animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2019-09-08/the-list-the-top-5-shinichiro-watanabe-anime/.150866

And the stalker developed Tao’s and Angela’s relationship more

Black music always mentions politics in their songs

Like others in the thread have said, it feels more like a western teen drama rather than an anime, probably watanabe's worst show.

>it feels more like a western

Bebop is western dumb ass

Prophet Ezekiel, AKA the prophecy
I had to give you my government so you'd know me properly
See this is my property, yet the system don't give a damn
Take Mars, remove the S, spell it backwards, I'm a ram
This the jam
See, everything is hot on this desolate planet
The type to put your satellite through some permanent damage
No diagnostics, all your drawers need to see a mechanic
Damn, we can't manage
Man, we can't vanish
I can't speak robot, but I can speak Spanish
Seems a lot of real music has been forever banished
Evangelists of the sonic revival
From trip-hop into tribal
Not a fight over music, this is my fight for survival
How many robots?
How many rebels?
How many lighters?
How many levels?
How many monkeys?
How many barrels?
Left in peril
Death isn't the only thing that scares you
Toast to life

Drop the crack, start a riot
Flood the planet, be a tyrant
Paint the streets, crash the server
Express yourself, always be the converter

Drop the crack, start a riot
Flood the planet, be a tyrant
Paint the streets, crash the server
Express yourself, always be the converter

Morning never comes
Darkness chokes me
Wish that I could see the sun
I feel like I am falling
Morning never comes
Darkness got me
Because you left me
Or 'cause you hurt me
Want to fall into an endless dream
What is the answer?
When everything is gone
What is the answer?
What is the answer?
When everything is gone
What is the answer?
What is the answer?

Someone fart in her cpap machine there
youtube.com/watch?v=dULkMTNNiv4

Space dandy is a western cartoon then. Not anime

Woke

Really says something when the most memorable moment in your show is a group of foul mouthed trannys singing.

cbr.com/review-carole-tuesday-best-cowboy-bebop/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

How

Still better than terror

Mermaid sisters > yoko kanno

preen.inquirer.net/100363/carole-tuesday-isnt-just-a-cute-show-its-woke-too/amp

I thought it was good until it became ORANGE MAN BAD: the anime, after which it started getting cringey pretty fast.

back to discord, samefag

Let's be real: FUCKING BULLSHIT would be the most memorable moment in almost any anime.
It's communist bullshit.

But the orange man is bad in real life

It’s current

That e-boy tier guy should have won. Fuck this show.

Oh i was wondering when the autist would show up

twitter.com/B0bduh

@B0bduh
>I do appreciate that as the regressive end of anime fandom huddles ever more tightly around absurd ideas like "there are no SJWs in Japan," we've got Shinichiro Watanabe out here saying Fuck Trump Specifically and Hiroyuki Imaishi saying The Gays Will Punch Global Warming

Tuesday a cute. A cute!
>communist bullshit
>current
You're not wrong here.

curiouscat.me/Bobduh/post/985903308
>What would you say about to the folks complaining about the politics in Carole and Tuesday? I have been finding the 2nd half to be even better than the 1st.

>If seeing a clear Trump analogue cynically play to their audience’s nationalism and bigotry by stoking fear of immigrants makes you uncomfortable, *good.* Monstrous behavior like that *should* make you uncomfortable, perhaps even uncomfortable enough to fight back against such monstrous behavior in the real world. Art shouldn’t just comfort, validate, or pacify - art should also broaden our perspectives, challenge us, and inspire us to action.

Stop spamming twitterfag

And this is why it is the least popular show on Yea Forums.

>This faggot seriously shilling his shit
Goddamn that's pathetic

What’s wrong with woke? It’s happening in America right now.

And it's fucking awful.

>In the latest C&T episode, a migrant refugee voiced by Denzel Curry spits fucking FIRE bars over Flying Lotus production about his oppression. And then LITERALLY ICE beats & arrest him. Watanabe is on another level out here folks; this is supremely important stuff he's discussing

twitter.com/PedanticRomantc/status/1170357631640162305

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Yes America sucks. Make America great again!

Fag

>How many monkeys?

What did he mean by this ?

Because of woke garbage, tard.
Pay attention.

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I love this yuri

Woke is great you broke fag

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> steven king
>good
>ever
Jesus fucking christ.....

>tfw holy shit oh fucker

This is an image of Tuesday being cute. Then again, all images of Tuesday are images of Tuesday being cute.
>fag
That's problematic. Off to the gulag for you.

Unpopular opinion
Carole>Tuesday

she is sexy cause she is not white

youtube.com/watch?v=2H0B3aSLUZA&app=desktop

>cause she is not white
She’s not?

The problem with this show, at least for me, isn't that it's trying to cover all this current topics and political issues, it's that it's not doing a good job at it. It's not really doing a good job with any of it's subplots, it feels like they're trying to do too many things at once and the show is just collapsing under the weight of it. It could work if some of them were removed to give more focus to the ones that are actually important, but as it is it feels like the show has spent most of it's second half falling flat on it's face.

...

Hi Steve is alive

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I just find the political plot in C&T to be boring and distracting from the draw of the series which was supposed to be two girls emerging into the mainstream music world.

I didn't have problems with the series in the first half despite the usual kikery in some episodes, then the 'Netflix' shit started really hard to happen during the initial episodes and it wasn't even subtle. Trying to sell me a narrative talked by goverments, NGO, supranational organizations while trying to mirror current 'first world problems' did nothing to me but to drop the series. I jumped in for a series about music, not about the shitty life on mars. The whole series is wasted potential.

t. Tuesday

>refugee crisis
>lady trump (actually looks like Hillary who fucks callboys)
>lgbt pandering
>last minute love interest
Way too much unnecessary subplot bullshit.

There is no love interests.
It’s a yuri. Carole only cries around Tuesday

What Netflix shit? Netflix doesn’t make anime.

Yes and we get music every episode.

>The themes it has like Angela's drug thing simply wouldn't fly in other Japanese media
Yomi's story from Toji no Miko was literally the story of a low esteem girl who starts using drugs because she feels/is unloved by her (surrogate) mother.
The vampire from Ange Vierge didn't need blood but used it "just to feel better", building a meta-narrative (in the sense that it took from other sources) of vampirism as drug abuse.

Angela's drug abuse is just more blatant.

>lgbt pandering

Tumblr said it’s transphobic. It’s not pandering

It's because they think the point of a story is what happens and not everything else.

>>Spoiler
>>doesn't even spoil anything
>What is it with Westerners and caring about spoilers so much. They're so squeamish about spoilers that they even put it on things that don't spoil anything.

It more spoilers of what he thinks about Carole and Tuesday during the podcast

>lgbt pandering
lmao really? all the lgtb people in this series are deranged or perverts

Yeah because the trannies weren't shown as the perfect humanoids.
Tumblr is braindead... it's still pandering.

Not Gus' ex-wife

>Yes and we get music every episode.
What's going on with Angela is the much more interesting plot right now. How the music industry takes people in and then spits them back out. Yet despite this, people keep trying to push the whole Trump/Hilary analogy as the highlight of the series.

Not Desmond or the gay judge from American idol

And now Angela's trans mom just died. So add bury your gays or whatever to that.

C&T has two big problems for me. So much of it feels meaningless, like you could have cut this down to 12 episode and you would have got the same. It also doesn't take the world it created seriously. For example, remember how the damn cops were the ones recording Ezekiel's video?

The politics are not even that bad when you consider it's aimed at westerners, it has the safe "racism is bad mmkay" that they love.

Angela started at the top and wins everything then falls. Plus Angela is the one who wanted the whole rivalry thing.

>like you could have cut this down to 12 episode

That could be said for bebop, champloo and dandy

>Angela started at the top
Her mom abused her growing up and Angela was raised with constant pressure to be a star. Her mom was living through her. And now that her mom who always pushed her is dead and Tao is gone, what does she have left? She alienated everyone around her.

Yes and no. Even if it was episodic, what we saw felt like it had weight, it had a purpose. Compare to Cybelle, and then the stalker. Condense the character in one and it improves.

She still wanted to sing and got what she wanted

And get rid of the what’s in the refrigerator episode in bebop

Yes, now she's so happy she's ODed on drugs and could've died.

That's not even taking into account her obvious self-esteem issues. Like during American Idol when she got mad and fired Katie due to thinking Katie hurt Tueday since she didn't believe she could win on her own.

cbr.com/anime-racial-diversity-carole-tuesday-cannon-busters/amp/

Angela is so bitchy sometimes

m.youtube.com/watch?v=tXTHKeXHhNc

>Shinichiro Watanabe has left a HUGE mark on anime. From his seminal masterwork Cowboy Bebop, to Kids on the Slope, to his most recent effort, Carole and Tuesday, he brings his unique sensibility to everything he does. And you know his shows always have a bangin soundtrack. With Carole and Tuesday out on Netflix now, there’s never been a better time to learn about Watanabe!

>Angela is so bitchy sometimes
She can be, but I think it's so dumb when people dismiss her struggles just because she's mean to other characters. She's the child star who knows nothing outside of the entertainment industry and has her world shattered as she's just barely becoming an adult.

>its not gay enough for turbofaggots means it's not pandering.

C&T is kino
amp.www.complex.com/music/2019/09/denzel-curry-new-song-crash-the-server-netflix-carole-tuesday-anime-series

Denzel curry > bebop soundtrack

Shit opinion > your opinion

what’s with this nigger spamming the thread

>Not mentioning Space Dandy.

How so?
Are you retarded?

Stop posting links to these insufferable shills

Is a mentally ill /u/fag pay him no attention. Not even /u/ likes him

My opinion = facts > shit > you

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I dropped it after the sudden faggotry pandering. It feels like some tranny wrote his wet dreams as 3 episodes in a row with ridiculous bullshit like "oh yeah btw Mars turn people gay!"

I never liked Watanabe's stuff anyway.

Should have been episodic about a band trying to make it.
When it became a talent show it became very bad and stupid.
That stupid character that was in love with Tuesday was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen.

>never liked Watanabe's stuff anyway.

Then why are you here?

>Should have been episodic
It kind is. And people complain about episodic things all the time

Because it's an image board to discuss anime, you dunce.
And I guess I forgot to mention that I really enjoyed most of the first half, so this is still a disappointment for me.

caroleandtuesday.com/special/report.html

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Honestly, i was expecting a masterpiece like Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo and Space Dandy or at the very least a fun show. Carole & Tuesday instead turned out ot be boring as hell. I still can't get over that awful America Got Talent Arc

The 2nd half is better.

I liked the 1st half of cowboy bebop and champloo but not the 2nd because there was more filler.

>Honestly, i was expecting a masterpiece like Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo and Space Dandy

LOL! Those are masterpieces?

>low esteem
Fanfiction
>drugs
Military rank and success
Yomi's entire characterization is of a warrior, her gratitude toward Yukina is for giving her the opportunity to live as a Toji. She explicitly gives speeches about not giving a shit about what people think about her lifestyle and choices, and takes the most hardline "death in the line of duty" approach out of anyone in the series. Fuck you for completely mischaracterizing best Toji for the sake of defending a crack whore show.

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animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2019-03-04/director-shinichiro-watanabe-explains-musical-choices-in-carole-and-tuesday-anime/.144137

C&T is not anime

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dotandline.net/q-tuesday-speak-up/

>Nai, when did you realize that Carole was a woman of color like yourself? And do you have any feelings of being part of two rare instances in animation, not only being a black woman taking part in an anime, but voicing a character of color as well?

>Nai: Part of the story line was sent to me before recording, but I didn’t know what Carole looked like until the first day of recording. It’s a huge honor and I’m glad that I was chosen to do.

Some netflix shows just get forgotten since some can't be bothered with fansubs.
It's definitely one of the better originals in recent years, The music from all characters is top notch and while the story is nothing mind blowing it's still interesting enough to keep watching.
Two episodes left I hope they give it a good ending it deserves or they just make Angela/C&T sing together as the ending.

Attached: 1558971115319.webm (1280x720, 2.61M)

Fuck yoko kanno

atmafunomena.wordpress.com/2019/08/30/carole-tuesday-a-musical-dialogue-shinichiro-watanabe-x-mocky/

Attached: 8F4BA76C-A987-47C0-A020-1CA7F0E7A2C2.jpg (768x513, 101K)

Its sjw/tumblr bait

>deserves or they just make Angela/C&T sing together as the ending.

How? Angela took too many drugs.

>her gratitude toward Yukina is for giving her the opportunity to live as a Toji.
That's the first layer.
The second layer is about her desperate desire for approval. She has no interest in rank or success for itself, all of her actions are taken to make Yukina happy and to be appreciated for it.

minachaco.tumblr.com/post/185822931694/wait-what-was-transphobic-about-carole-and

m.youtube.com/watch?v=NaOqJrxsZXk

>C&T is not anime
of course it's anime.

Nope

Source: animenewsnetwork.com/review/carole-and-tuesday/episodes-1-12/.150670

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reddit.com/r/Animedubs/comments/czday8/jeannie_tirado_about_the_controversy_surrounding/

The power of music wakes her up and she teams up with Carole and Tuesday to sing a cover of "Love Yourself".

>”oh yeah btw Mars turn people gay!"
Can someone enlighten me on this? I didn’t watch that far.

The best scene in the entire series.

youtube.com/watch?v=OFjqEexH0Tg

What do you even think gratitude is? She is grateful to Yukina, ergo she wants to make Yukina happy, and Yukina being pleased with her would mean she succeeded. Yomi is the exact opposite of someone who seeks acceptance, she even tells Yuzuki as such. You sound like you're missing awareness of some of the critical principles to understanding japanese characters, being a devoted subordinate is seen as a virtuous characteristic not an emotional vulnerability.

Attached: yomi speech.jpg (685x818, 114K)

unwinnable.com/2019/09/20/carole-tuesday-bad-representation/

It doesn’t literally make them gay

>Angela's mom and Desmond displays characteristics of both sexes due to the influence of the Martian environment.

>Dahlia’s facial features and unattractive and overexaggerated, reminding me of Yubaba from Spirited Away. They’re a major recurring character, and Carole & Tuesday still chooses to present them as an unstable, gender-confused child beater. We’re not meant to look at Dahlia and see a sympathetic character; even Angela suspects Dahlia might have carried out an acid attack on Tuesday during a singing competition. It’s an unfortunately plausible assumption to make, given that the show goes so far out of its way to establish Dahlia as a desperate and violent person.

>There are only two established black artists who appear in the first half of the show, one of whom (Skip) performs dressed in what is clearly a prison jumpsuit and is introduced to the girls in a dark trailer filled with weed smoke. A one-off black man wandered onto screen just long enough to show the girls how to do a “cool” fistbump before disappearing back into the aether. Carol is an orphaned refugee from Earth, and I shudder to think how badly the show is going to handle an upcoming refugee plotline once the new episodes formally release.

Martian radiation turn them into hermaphrodites and kill them afterwards them nothing else.

The same SJW wrote this unwinnable.com/2019/01/29/just-let-reigen-be-sexy-already/

Then isn't that very negative representation? Because that would make the trans characters technically mutants that then suffer and die.

Man, that’s some wack shit. What the fuck, Watanabe?

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Why do people live on Mars if there's a chance it'll kill them by living on the planet?

Ask cowboy bebop

>Space Dandy
>masterpiece

Attached: 1565320860404.png (868x833, 1M)

because in this universe earth is a 3rd world shithole.

Why does his ex has the same hairstyle as Gus?

It's a masterpiece in comparison to this solid 2/10 dumpster fire

Nope

C&T > champloo > dandy boobies >terror

ok tranny

Attached: e9d.jpg (600x600, 18K)

I'm unironically still hoping for the yuri end.

Would at least be something

When you are a westaboo for that long your work sooner or later will turn into shit.

This. It's at least pretty to look at if not much else.

This. I never understood why Watanabe was always so obsessed with the west

Nothing wrong with having an infatuated and alien look to draw inspiration from it. Problem start when you try to replicate its reality

Bebop is shit then

He hates japan

In 5 years C&B will be regarded as a classic like Dandy is now. Just wait and see.

>Americans are praising they show
>they actually think the political themes and other subplots are good things
>literally the rest of the world doesn't care about the anime itself, at best maybe just the music
>anime is still flopping everywhere outside the US: it's flopping in Japan, it's flopping in China, it's flopping in Asia, flopping in South America, etc.
What did they mean by this.

I don't mind the show but it feels like it's going for the usual development of musicians jacking off themselves in music themed media
The too long tournament arc didn't help too

People are shallow and will eat up anything that reinforces their beliefs.

Based

The sad thing about C&T is that it actually had the potential to be really good. It had a strong start and the "struggling musicians going big" storyline had great potential. But it seems Watanabe/Netflix/whoever wanted to cram in too many ideas and wanted to present them, but they were so overwhelming it was going to be difficult to tie them together. You know you're messing up when even with a two-cour series you still can't build your setting or subplots well.