Why does Illya lead Miyu on so much if she's ultimately just going to friendzone her and shatter her heart?

Why does Illya lead Miyu on so much if she's ultimately just going to friendzone her and shatter her heart?

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Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=DzD76g4BlQA
d-techno.jp/teaser/Characlock/service/prisma-illya-2wei/
twitter.com/aso546/status/1169584727608545281
strawpoll.me/18663584
youtube.com/watch?v=27bVmwvxKDI
youtu.be/zOMdVUTX0C4
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

Dunno what you're talking about.
Miyu's pretty much won at this point.

they only platonically french kiss each other and rub their cunnies together

What kind of doctor is she?

probably more of a medical scientist developing better ways to succ

She is a very cruel person.

i'm ready for my prostate exam dr. einzbern

Some people just don't care about others' feelings. Most people in fact.

mana extraction specialist

She probably thinks that Miyu's romantic advances are perfectly normal, you know, like how some girls think that its perfectly normal for a guy to buy her dinner "as just friends".

Its an entitled mentality. A lot of girls just think that they deserve special treatment because of they are special snowflakes.

I was promised lolis kissing and it took 10 episodes for any lolis to kiss

DROPPED

Turn your head and cough

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That is not how a prostate exam is perform.

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Illya is so mature

How I want to make these two into mother

Now I really badly want Illya's smooth, tiny fingers in my butt.

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She is. I hate her...

Based on what?
Illya's an extremely affectionate girl. How can you say that Miyu has won anything besides the title of BFF?

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Satan, guide my cock!

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why the fuck Ilya is so sexy, looking at her gets me priapism

No don't

It's simple logic. What options does Illya have?
1) Shirou.
He's a JUSTICE autist and would never lay his hands on his sister. Not going to happen.
2) Some random boy.
Unlikely.
3) Illya stays alone forever.
This is not FSN. Priya's her "route" where she finds the happiness she deserves. Not going to happen.
4) Miyu. She's here and available.
It's not rocket science.

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illya would be able to easily bully shirou into giving her the penis she requires and kuro existing is likely going to be the catalyst necessary to force her into doing it

She has Ruby as an enabler though. As long Kohakustick isn't cockblocked by Hisuistick to go full retard, she can push Illya into raping onii-chan sooner or later.

And then he gets castrated by Iri. Good job.

>She's here and available.
She is probably going to stay behind in her world once they finish saving it.

>Priya's her "route" where she finds the happiness she deserves.
Don't get too uppity, zasshou.

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The iconic loli trio is the heart of the franchise. I doubt anything's going to happen to them.

Illya and Miyu parting ways at the end would fit with Prisma's Sakura/Nanoha roots.

>Nanoha roots
Can't wait for a Priya spin-off about Illya and Miyu's daughter.

Is the manga dead? It has been 4 months since the last chapter.

Illya and Miyu will both end up with their onii-chan.
Before anyone tries to claim the latter isn't romantic with him in any way, remember that the entire point of the Shirou flashback/movie is that he chose Miyu over everyone. Over the world and over Sakura. And it's not exactly a stretch to say her feelings are more than just sisterly.

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Hiroyama is too busy with his FGO doujins. Please understand.

That's delusional but a man can dream.

Illyaverse Shirou belongs to Issei

Where does Kuro end up then? Come to think of it, I don't know where Kuro is gonna end up in any possible ending, or if she's even gonna survive to the end. I'm half expecting her to get rekt in the final battle and lie there dying then fuse back with Illya in a bittersweet moment.

Didn't the author got sick after recovering from an accident?

Thanks doc.

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Most likely he just doesn't know what to do with Drei.

Illya is going to lose an arm and Kuro will have to sacrifice herself to save her.

Wasn't there Sapphire Ozymandias as well?

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what do they want mama to teach them?

>Over the world and over Sakura.

Sakura's intent was to give him a weapon to save Miyu, have some respect bucko. Did you forget he literally imagined marrying her before she got unceremoniously killed? While he solemnly held her scarf as he transformed? If Sakura makes it, she would totally be Miyuverse Shirou's wife.

I want ilya to watch while chloe slobs my knob for mana cum

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Sakura's kinda dead doll that seems to fuse berserkerlot's madness enhancement and dark wormslut baggage at the moment though.

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Miyu-Shirou wanted Sakura though.

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youtube.com/watch?v=DzD76g4BlQA

I just want Kuro to develop feelings and want to monopolize miyu is that too much to ask?

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How to please a man 20 years older than she is

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PUFFY

He rejected Sakura for Miyu though. Did you forget he rejects that future he imagines because he cares too much for Miyu?

If Sakura makes it she'd continue being his friend, but no one replaces Miyu for Shirou.

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Gil got a gf

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This pairing urgently needs more solo doujins. The show sets up so many potential scenarios already.

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You mean women ?

Reminder that Illya touched his peepee

But blood related siblings can't do that...

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Nice girl

>tfw I forgot there was a shota Gil for a while
Fuck's sake, was he just a red herring or something? He just up and fucked off after doing pretty much nothing.

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Why does Illya love big dark DILF cock so much?

Miyu has 2kg of extra ass

I would let her circumcize me without painkillers

He left after getting what he wanted, but its implied he is still watching then because he found then interesting.

Stop saying that the cups are pure

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What's so interesting about these three?

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>Klangfest
They're making a Berserk crossover?

>all those loli feet

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Made for licking

Dr. Einzbern, it hurts when IP.

How do I convince Kuro to sleep with me?

I wouldn't recommend it. You'll wake up with no mana left.

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Miyu deserves to win.

Could kuro handle all the anons at the same time?

Ilya isn't gay, retard.
Number 2 is infinitely more likely, most people haven't met the person they'll marry by the at of 11. She'll probably be a absolute jizz wizard by the time she's in college and grown out of her childish crush on her brother (who is surrogate for the traditional father figure missing in her life.)

What would it feel like if you came inside if Kuro-chan?

bags of sand

She has endurance C, that's more than enough for a number of anons.

Could she take on hundreds of smelly anons?

>already brown with kinda white hair
Probably alone on top of a hill of swords.

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Post THAT

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d-techno.jp/teaser/Characlock/service/prisma-illya-2wei/


LADS

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>Ilya isn't gay
[citation needed]

Oh boy. Guess no specific date yet though.

Just playing the odds, given that the global homosexual population is anywhere between 0.5% and 4%.
You can keep stroking it to doujins though.

What is this?

>see a dream last night where I came across Kuro in a micro bikini
>the dream destabilizes before I can give her the D
the guy from blade runner 2 yelling.jpg

>avoided the jackhammer in FSN
>avoided the jackhammer in FHA
Illya is disgustingly gay.

Holy shit finally.

Nigga she was begging for it, not her fault Shirou is denser than the average Yea Forumsnon.

Illya is for illyaverse Shirou
Miyu is for miyuverse Shirou
Kuro is for getting mortaly wounded and fusing herself back with Illya.

It's not cool to make up shit.

>Kuro waking me up in the morning
Oh god Yea Forums. Oh god someone hold me.

You lost me.

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The cups have such nice budding breast

His latest FGO doujin was also apparently unfinished. Something's up

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So,what is this?

She is fat

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Whats the deal with this Kuro character? Why does she have Redman’s powers?

Drei is 3rd arc like Heaven's Fuck.
Illya= HF's Shiro.
Miyu= HF Sakura.

He selfinserted Shiro's card inside her fat vagines.

Lesbian here.

Just a reminder that we are taking over. The fact is women have NEVER been attracted to men: we needed them for protection, economic support and procreation, and sex is what we traded for those things (or they just raped us).

But now? First-world men have been totally domesticated, so no need to worry about violence. We're taking over the work force too, so we can provide for ourselves. And medical science has made procreative sex totally unnecessary; we can just buy the sperm (with our superior earnings) and have it cleanly injected without getting within ten feet of a penis.

Women are naturally more attracted to other women. Who wouldn't be? We're beautiful, soft and smooth and curvy, basically the opposite of hairy oafish ape-like men. And we know how to please each other like no man ever could. Lesbian sex can last for hours.

Every day more and more "straight" girls are being turned. The world of the future is where a small number of strong men act as our designated studs and the rest of you losers are eunuchs designated for manual labor exclusively. Deal with it.

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Would you take the responsibility?

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Yes for Illya.
Flee the country and join the French Foreign Legion for Miyu.

Even if they fucked hundred of others men and the child ins't yours?

The cups are bisexual

What you wrote sounds kind of familiar?

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Who did this?

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By me.

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Nobody can best the cock,not even a magical girl

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God Miyu is such a fucking cow.

How small are the cups?

133cm
29kg

Except Miyu who's fat butt is apparently 2kg heavier than the other two.

I had a girlfriend once that looked and behaved exactly like Kuro.

Then, you woke up

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open door see this what do

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Hm? Illya's going to have a harem.

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>Are you winning sweety?

Cunny

I still use the Illya one.

Why do Illya and Brown Illya need butts like that? It doesn't seem appropriate or helpful for kids like them.

her form is based off a homunculus body that may be required to give birth whenever necessary

cups are meant to be filled

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UGH

An unfilled cup is a philosophical tragedy.

>fuse back with Illya
Kurollya then?

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Yes! I thought that Yea Forumsnon had lied to me when he said I should wait for the new alarm. I'm sorry I doubted you!

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Oh wow, I've never actually seen the real version of this where Illya has her dress on.

>Kuro
Now I can wake up with even more rigid, hard morning wood.

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Oh look illya is in kuros favorite position

Artist? Reverse image searching isn't pulling up shit.

Dont even know sorry,but is in gelbooru.

Are the characters even tagged on it? I'm not seeing it.

Found it on Sankaku Channel. Artist is Hot Melon, though it's not anywhere on his Pixiv or Fantia page. Weird. Probably got buried on his Twitter or something.

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Bringo. twitter.com/aso546/status/1169584727608545281

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If we make to illya Brown,that would make a kuro?

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Fascinating.

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facesitting

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The kind who neuters lolicons to render them harmless

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>she think she can beat the cock
Go back to the kitchen whore.

Imagine if losing your mana would make you lose height too haha
Imagine going to bed with her when she's only chest height to you at best, then waking up after having your mana drained and having to look up to her haha

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Penis Inspector

Even better. Are you saying that you wouldn't be a cuck for a cup?

>Are you saying that you wouldn't be a cuck for a cup?
Fuck no. I want to know for a fact the baby in the cup is mine. I want to destroy a cup and make her give me a whole tea set.

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That kuro is really cute and funny

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I want to SNIFF

Why is the water yellow?

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I want season one's artstyle back. They look too old now.

Booby Kuro

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I want to lick that tummy

>who is surrogate for the traditional father figure missing in her life

Kiritsugu's alive in this universe though

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Suckin' kuro's boobies

Why do you anons keep posting these threads?
You're converting normal red blooded vanillafags into lolicons.

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oh no!

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I would be one for all the cups. Imagine caressing all those pregnant bellies.

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pls don't hog all the cups and let other anons get cucked too

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Looks like a nice pasta, sadly the fact lesbians use strap ons kind of defeats the empowerment speech. Women can't escape the biological urge for cock.

Why is the anime so much lewder than the manga?

I guess is that time again.

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Silverlink is full of lolicons

Why the cups always fuck the Old Mans?

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>Nobody can beat the cock
T.sexlessvirgin


Magical girl can grow cock to sodomize your waifu right in front of you

How big will Illya's breasts be when she's older?

Quite large, considering how booby Iri is.

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How fitting would large breasts be for Illya's unfeminine personality?

It will be really cruel if Illya is still leading on and emotionally tormenting Miyu by that point. Unknowingly teasing and seducing her with her huge breasts.

What do you mean unfeminine?

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God I wish that were me taking a bath with Iri

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Damn Illya is so lucky.

because it's animated? The mana transfers in the manga are short and hide the lips. But the anime removes a lot of the pantyshots present in the manga and adds convenient censorship for nude scenes.

Prisma have so many good doujins

How can I get a brown and small girlfriend like Kuro-chan?

male geriatrician

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I want to fuck anime now

Sorry Bro

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Why they are always in the bath?

me on the right, getting a hug from mom while being cucked by my sister

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Illya's personality is more masculine than anything.

How so?

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What did she mean by this?

She will only grow stronger

>Be vanilla lolicon
>Just want cute illya x miyu doujins, or something het but vanilla
>It's always fat old men mindcontrol gangbang exhibitionism, and it's never even illya x miyu
Life is suffering

strawpoll.me/18663584

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Ophthalmologist

There are a few vanilla ones, but definitely too few. Pure yuri with Miyu and Illya i can only think of the two by one artist, the one that was posted here Futa loli at least does have a bit with the 3 part achromic ones and the SHG ones.

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Blowing bubbles makes a girl seem slutty and trashy

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Okay we need to agree on this in advance, who's going first?

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>11-years old
Damn Yuropoor genes.

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The Mashimaro thread made me realise that the Prismas and the Mashimaros are the same age. Truly astounding.

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They're also the same age as the Marui sisters.

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Is she consider pretty by modern standers?

i love oppai lolis

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Illya is fucking hot. No guy at her high school will have platonic feelings for her. Some guys will simply want to fuck her, some will have a mild crush on her, and others will genuinely be deeply in love, but nobody will think of her as just a friend. Especially if she becomes as busty as Iri during her early to mid teens.

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Prime breeding material

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Doctor! My penis hurts!

I seriously doubt she'll be this popular. She'll be the shy, quiet girl who's only noticed by a few.

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Imagine all those poor shotas at their school desperately hiding their animalistic desire to fuck the three cups.

See this? SEE THIS? This is what I meant by Illya leading Miyu on. Fucking cocktease. Does she act this way with everyone?

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She has a one of a kind appearance and fully grown homunculi are said to be exceedingly beautiful, so I doubt it. Boys would be turned off knowing that her dad is a professional hitman though.

Absolutely

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It's just friendly skinship. All the girls cup each other's breasts and comment on their size, don't you know?

>been pure all week, not even a single boner
>open this thread
>instant boner

Sasuga my daughterus.

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The oficial art is always the lewdest

>barely 11-years-old Illya gets way more attention and fanart than the real Illya ever did
Why is this allowed?

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小学生は最高だぜ

And a ching chong nip nong to you, young lady

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>real Illya

Nigga they are literally the same character.
Pretty sure even the age is the same. She getting more fanart is due to prisma pretty much being the route she never got in the original VN.

>they are literally the same character
Not even a little bit
>Pretty sure even the age is the same
Prisma Illya is a normal 10-year-old girl at the start of her story, who likes to watch magical girl anime and has a crush on her stepbrother.
F/SN Illya is an 18-year-old who's spent the last decade being tormented and molded into an ideal Master by the Einzberns after her parents betrayed and abandoned her, and wants revenge against the boy who stole her father and life from her.
>prisma pretty much being the route she never got
The closest Prisma gets to being an "Illya route" is the storyline with Miyu and her brother
Prisma barely touches on Illya and Shirou's relationship, as family or otherwise, beyond comedy and even if it did it still wouldn't really be an "Illya route" analogue because both of them are very different people to their F/SN counterparts in a completely different situation.

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They are the same physically.
I will give you that the artstyle is different, but still same character.

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God those big pregnant bellies get me so hard

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Priya isn't an Illya route because she's the fucking main character there. It's like calling FSN a Shirou route. It's dumb.

Illya enjoys vaginal the most
Miyu enjoys anal the most
Kuro eenjoys getting both holes stuffed

Yes, regardless of the child being mine.
I will feed them and their kids till eventually the children get big enough to take my hard cock as well.

I can personally confirm this.

Why not abort the kids with your erect cock? I know abortion tallies are a fetish tag on Pixiv.

>abort
Why waste two fresh cunnies?
Like I said I rather wait for them to grow like ripe fruits.

This thread is getting to be a bit too degenerate.
Tone it down, please.

Cunnyologist

Why are Illya's nips erect?

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>it's real

Wew. How will they ever be able to convince the app reviewers to approve this shit if Kuro is in there?

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youtube.com/watch?v=27bVmwvxKDI

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I love Illya so much. She's so perfect and cute and precious. I want to hold her and squeeze her and kiss her and pat her and make love to her and never leave her. She makes me so happy.

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The Illya alarm app was characlock's most successful app and they're hyping this up to be unprecedented in size and content. Oh fucking boy Yea Forums.

>unprecedented in size and content
Unlockable animations, Live2D characters with unlockable outfits, and ASMR mode.

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>Illya and Kuro both canonically wear side-tie panties in their battle outfits
>under her leotard Miyu wears nothing at all
God bless Hiroyama

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>29kg

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next time post the real one, pussy

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It's funnier when it's implied than stated

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Is this some kind of highly obscure fetish?

>Illya and Miyu will both end up with their onii-chan.
Miyu doesn't have romantic feelings for Shirou. And if you have her in FGO, she confesses she'll only give honmei choco to Ilya. Those scenes are written by each character's author.

She only loves Ilya romantically.

She also had a brief fantasy of Sakura as her sister in law when they fought. She has zero romantic interest on Shirou and viceversa.

Does Illya return the feelings?

>He rejected Sakura for Miyu though
Because his sister was in danger right there, not that because he wanted to fuck her. MIYU also pictured the lost (for now) possibility Sakura would have become her sister in law and was totally fine with that.
They get official art of shoping together as this.

So? Shirou was a doll in HF ending.

Angelica and Beatrice died multiple times and are dolls, what the fuck is Sakura suddenly different? is it because you know she'll win and threatens your pedo fantasy? Miyu officially only has romantic feelings for Ilya too.

>Sakura
>wife in his mind

>Miyu
>younger sister

Nobody is replacing anyone. Miyu is his sister. Sakura doesn't want to be his sister.

I want to be Ilya's chewing gum, does that count?

We don't know, but Miyu's 100000000% only for Ilya. however if she's like Kuro, then she's also a lesbian and makes an exception for Shirou. Kuro's scene is about how she likes girls except her oniichan. Ilya's kind of the innocent oblivious type.

Ilya = ??? we know she likes Shirou though.
Kuro = Lesbian but is also a brocon.
Miyu = Ilya-sexual. She has no eyes for anyone else, men or women.

Miyu's love for Ilya is the cutest thing.

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If Illya turns Miyu down, will Miyu ever be able to move on and fall in love with someone else? Will they be able to maintain their close friendship?

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I loved that transition

The anime changes so much and its awful.
The only thing the same is I guess Kuro's hair.

God I love Prisma Illya.

I do have to wonder what the rationale for changing outfits randomly is. I like Kuro's outfit there but the manga one was really good too. Ilya's anime one is a complete downgrade.

Illya already wore that manga outfit in Herz's fujo episode.

>Shirou was a doll in HF ending
Shirou's soul was preserved the miracle of Illya's sacrifice and the Dress of Heaven's imitation of Third Magic, and transferred into one of Touko Aozaki's nearly flawless "dolls" that would naturally mold itself to Shirou's form with relative ease.
Ainsworth dolls are very different. They don't operate on the Third Magic or an imitation, they're created by the Ainsworth's incredible bullshit somehow-not-Magic Flash Air to "displace" someone's soul, consciousness and appearance onto a lifeless marionette.
The doll Shirou's soul was transferred to became his body, it naturally transfigured itself to his true/original shape and he'll eventually grow old and die like a regular person. Ainsworth dolls are still marionettes under the glamour even though they can appear to be injured, bleed and suffer. If you kill one the magic is dispelled and leaves behind the doll instead of a corpse. It's hard to tell but they don't seem to age either, Beatrice looks as young as she was on the day of the accident five years ago while Julian has obviously aged. They're like living ghosts, the displaced image of themselves at the moment of their death given "life" as the Ainsworth's servant.
On that note I also don't think any doll has died and gotten an "extra life," Angelica and Beatrice have been defeated but not killed like Shinji was (and he didn't come back). They shouldn't be able to create dolls from dead people at all, since that would necessarily mean bringing back souls from beyond the Root. Angelica, Beatrice and the others who died five years ago must have had their souls captured/preserved at the moment of their death somehow, same with Sakura.

Beyond all of that Sakura is already gone, her mind is way more deranged and damaged from the transfer (and probably spending months under Mad Enhancement from keeping Berserker installed) than even Beatrice. Most she can hope for is being able to see Shirou one last time in her death.

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i want that to happen too man
GOD I NEED MORE DOUJINS OF SHIROU FUCKING MIYU AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I WANNA HAVE A CUTE LOLISISTERWIFE I CAN IMPREGNATE EVERYDAY TOO FUCK FUCK FUCKKKKK

The anime design is an upgrade because it's less whoreish. Manga Illya always dresses like a porn star for some reason. She's completely unaware that wearing non-revealing clothing is a thing that people sometimes do.

Anime's artstyle is straight inferior anyway from Herz onward, nevermind the budget issues.
It's a miracle Oath Under Snow looks as good as it does (in the BDs, anyway).

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What the fuck is Tanaka? We've never had a good answer.

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Don't think too hard about 3rei's writing. Hiroyama has no fucking clue what he's doing. At least the manga is sort of turning around (not that he'll ever finish it), but there's still a bunch of holes in everything.

It's called being fashionable, user

Almost definitely a Counter Guardian but I have more faith in Gil coming back than her being relevant again anytime soon

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>Angelica and Beatrice have been defeated but not killed like Shinji was
They were KILLED before that, retard speedreader. They were dead and they were stuffed in dolls. You're making up shit because your pedo ship will never be canon.

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>be semi-lolicon sisterlover
>only know 1 good Shirou-Miyu doujin
>rest are either futa shits or faceless fat fucks

fuck this i want my own personal cocksleeve imouto-loliwife

Will she continue being """"fashionable"""" as an adult with huge balloon tits?

You said
>Angelica and Beatrice died multiple times and are dolls
They have not died since becoming dolls.
It's also not clear if they actually properly died when they did (and therefore Julian would have had to somehow resurrect their souls after the fact to put them in dolls, which shouldn't be possible) or if their souls were just "displaced" from their dying bodies.
I'm not a degenerate who thinks Miyu's feelings for Shirou are anything but pure sisterly platonic love, this is an issue of lore autism.
But if you have an issue with lolicons why the fuck are you even here

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Illya is a 2D anime girl so that tragedy will never be realized

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Why did Irisveil and Luvia buy sexy underwear for their daughter/little sister?

Proportions messed up
You are right. Little girls should always be naked

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>Proportions messed up
What, you don't like WIDE torsos?

I think her legs are too long first of all

They're proper length. Miyu's upper torso looks pretty bad though.

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>not Cunnyloligist
One job

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Ok, but is the Ainsworth arc finally over? Is the manga back to fluffy loli SOL yet?

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Miyu's outfits are so goddamn lewd

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Nope. And the manga is absolutely going to end with the conclusion of the Ainsworth shit.

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urologist

Where is that store?

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Imagine marrying a brown loli waifu with Chiwa-chan's voice

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Testament Ilya is peak.

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Imagine if Illya cupped your penis and then commented on how small it is.

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Sounds about right

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My heart.
Ruby has some good taste

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What exactly is a lolicon? Would a person be a lolicon if they still liked voluptuous women?

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She has that perfect evil smug expression that makes me diamonds

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This image is cursed.

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Lolicon = Lolita complex = people who are attracted to young girls (pedophiles)
Japan makes little to no distinction in how they apply this because being an actual pedophile is far less stigmatized, but among Western fans it's obviously used exclusively to refer to people who want to fuck lolis (2D little girls)
Being a lolicon isn't usually an exclusive thing, sexuality is like a spectrum of "acceptable/taboo" like the Overton window in politics. Your "strike zone" isn't moving, it's getting wider.

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good to know Takeuchi still can't draw a sexy woman

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>shoujo style
Nice.

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N-No...

この人は正しいですよ。

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Reminder that Season 5 is upon us.
youtu.be/zOMdVUTX0C4

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Can't wait for the QUALITY.

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Why wait?

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I finally have a reason to finish this model.

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They don't have enough manga content to go off of, so hopefully they just animate the entire rest of the story as Hiroyama tells them so that we don't have to wait for the manga to end in several millennia.

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They do if they decide to redo the movie arc, or just cut it into a TV format like the Kara No Kyoukai movies, but I HIGHLY doubt that they'll be doing that.

Well now I'm scared that's going to be exactly what they'll do. Fucking hell.

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Anyone see one of the recent weird ass tweets about the moon from the Prisma twitter? Is something brewing again?

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Post YFW Miyu gets her own EMIYA remix

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those are some wide hips. is this what happens when you take in too much mana?

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My daughter miyu is very cute and brave.

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Why didn't this happen with miyu more often?

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>Miyu who had lived a sheltered life reading books about the outside world outruns Illya

Yeah sure. Bet she used Sapphire to cheat.

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>hey user did you say you liked Primsa Illya anime?
>um... yeah
>dude that has little girls being all lewd and kissing, are you a sicko?
>uhhh, n-no I like it for the fight scenes, you know, like Fate, haha

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>dude that has little girls being all lewd and kissing, are you a sicko?

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>Your "strike zone" isn't moving, it's getting wider.
Little late but yeah, pretty much. Still have not gone to the point of old hags or really young toddlers, but everything in between is fair game. 2D is a disease desu, why are they so attractive?