Why Bleach went wrong ?

Meme opinion

Shonen Jump pushed Kubo too hard, so he resorted to cheap writing just to get by. Recycling arcs, using cliches, all to keep up with deadlines. If Shonen Jump had given Kubo space to fucking breathe, bleach wouldn't have eaten shit.

Bankai was litterally the best idea Shonen Jump ever had.

>show a new character
>show his story
>who?

Kubo's bitch. Jump has nothing to do with any of these mangaka's ideas.

God i wish kukaku was my sister

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The best idea that was ever published in the Shonen Jump*

>No Turn the Back's Bankais

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Perfection

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Does not make it invalid.

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What about Kotetsu ?

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Because we didn't see Ichigo and Hichigo interact after the big reveal, which is something I was really looking forward to.

/thread right here. The story was not very well-put-together but the aesthetics carries it.

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Ironically your posts lacks substance

It didn't

These, which is why I'd still recommend it. Kubo is bad at delivering satisfying conclusions; what does that mean? That you'll still get hyped up with the story he's creating the whole way through.
The journey is very cool. The characters, some fights are amazing. But when it matters he drops the ball and has one of the 2 fighters asspull something to win in 1 hit and reveal they were hiding that power all along or have the characters do some amazing strategy only for the villain to power up and say it was never a real fight.
There's also the thing about giving the focus to the wrong side characters while Chad and Ishida get ignored after the stellar first arcs.

And you yourself posted it. We get Shinji Hirako and his whole Vizard squad hyped up as the real deal crashing on Karakura... and jobbing like losers. And Hirako himself traps Aizen under his Shikai (why didn't he use a bankai?) that reverses his senses AND FUCKING TELLS AIZEN ABOUT IT. WHO THEN PROCEEDS TO PERFECTLY ADAPT AND WIN.
Stuff like that ruined Bleach.

Got sum shit to talk, user?

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Get that shit outta here looks nothing like hiyori

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>why didn't he use a bankai
Its dangerous to his allies
> AND FUCKING TELLS AIZEN ABOUT IT. WHO THEN PROCEEDS TO PERFECTLY ADAPT AND WIN.
The explanation didnt help Aizen adapt retard

Too many characters
>Introductory cast of Ichigo and his school friends with weird powers
>Rukia and Soul Society
>Entirety of Soul Society, 13 squads, at least two members each you need to remember and then some extras
>Mexico arc with 10 Espadas and then some other jobbers
>Espadas have random number of direct underlings
>Then you got random arrancar that Aizen made for lulz
>Even more characters with fullbring arc
>Nazis
Nothing wrong with an interesting batch of characters but development of said characters would have helped.
And fake karrakura taking goddamn forever didn't help

You post that fucking pic every fucking thread. Kill yourself already nigger

It's a good pic

>Too many characters
By what metric? Most of the ones you listed were secondary characters that didnt take much screen time

It all ran for a good long while
From what I've seen the mangaka went dead after some faggots kept fucking with him on twitter

>didn't take much screentime
In a way, yes but I feel that they could have explored some other main cast member instead of focusing lightly on a bunch of others. Spreading the attention too thin across the whole. Karakurra town being the most blatant example since you've got nothing but soul society fighting aizen while the group that started the hueco mundo arc were out of commission. It makes sense for the focus to shift over but damn did they need to pad out all those fights with fracciones and lieutenants
It's the opposite of Naruto's final arc where I thought it was the biggest cop-out when they resurrected literally everybody instead of writing new villains. But then Kaguya and all that nonsense wasn't good either

My first time seeing it

Also another underrated girl. Isane is cute, has a great body, and I like tall women.

Better than posting no pics at all like you

Your English is terrible.

It honestly felt like by the time Kubo had set up the espada and started kuroxhime he had already lost sight of the direction the plot should head in. Which I feel like can’t be too far from the truth given how many people agree the show went bad after the ss arc.

I'm going to blame Soul Society arc. Everyone says it's the best arc, but to be honest, it introduced too many characters and too many elements, while also throwing the old ones away. Basically it was the start of everything going wrong.

People who say the story went downhill after the SS arc didn't watch after the SA arc. Xcution is the only arc in the entire manga with character development and ichihime starts in chapter 3

You didnt post a pic this time

What's with all the ESLs lately?

i'll never understand the hate for xcution
loved the design of most of the fullbringers and fullbringer is a neat power

>lost sight of the direction the plot should head in
And that direction is?

>too many characters in soul society arc
It worked in its favor since it boiled up to a small civil dispute between members. Having many factors compromise the soul society was pretty interesting at least

It lost its early 2000s alt rock aesthetic and any grounding in reality. Shockingly just having Ichigo's high school life interrupt Shinigami garbage routinely would have done a lot to keep the characters relatable and give all the soul reaping some sense of consequence.

When you can destroy sky scrapers in Hueco Mundo or have Urahara swap your entire town out for the big fight, everything kind of loses a sense of gravity or consequence.

Like Yu Yu Hakusho, the best parts were the detective stuff that took place in the real world.

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Because it didnt have giant explations every chapter

>it had the best potential among the 3.
Do people actually believe this?
It's kinda hard to believe now 15 years after the fact, but if you look back to the very earlier seasons of Naruto it was, like, a genuinely good shounen. Good characters, creative setting, cool fights, just really fun to watch.
Bleach never had any of that. All it had is, uh, good character design? and good OP songs, I guess.

>grounding in reality
Fucking retard

It become a character clusterfuck
Like one piece
And HxH
And Naruto
And BNHA
And about every shounen

Instead of developing pre-existing characters, manga authors seem to think adding more characters make the story better.
Bleach took this to 11 in my opinion.

Any thats more coherent obviously.

The issue is that it was too big for the writer to handle and continue with. It was letting out too much shit that can't be put back once shit is done.

Kekkaishi did a decent job of focusing on a small group of characters

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Nice non answer. Whats more coherent? Why was what we got not coherent?

>tfw Chad never got his time to truly shine
What a waste of a character

Anyone complaining about "too many characters" is a wannabe fanfic writter that cant understand that minnor characters are minnor characters. This applies to every series

Were we supposed to take his other arm transforming as that moment to shine?
Maybe it would have been better if he was the one to take Yammy down with the others

read nigga, read

I'd appreciate if a captain didn't waste my time taking so long to kill fraccione

It can't look THAT nothing like Hiyori if you recognized her...

The captains started getting more screen time then ichigo.
I'd hardly call that "a side character"

Nice call out of an obviously intentional response. I’d give you an answer but I’m not Kubo so I really couldn’t tell you. Also I’m not going to explain to you all the different ways in which Bleach is incoherent.

We both know your time is worthless, otherwise you wouldnt be here

Kubo doesn't know how to write.

carpet muncher

So you are talking out of your ass, got it

youtube.com/watch?v=AlSZnik5Hpo
youtube.com/watch?v=bVnQO9XaKB0

^
Should have ended with Aizen

ok you got me fair point

You didn't find it more compelling when Hollows were killing and torturing small children, then when everything was happening in magic Soul King land and your just told arbitrarily that if Ywach wins then it's the end of the world?

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>The captains started getting more screen time then ichigo.
The captains arent minnor characters but thats still wrong

As much as you’re lacking an ability to infer things I guess. Why do you bother asking questions?

>Hollows killing and torturing small children is grounded in reality

>makes a claim
>is asked to justify it
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Bleach chapters thread were among the best thread on Yea Forums

You're right user
If you have a poor attention span and need to be yanked to something new every 5 minutes.

were they?

The amount of times Kubo has introduced new characters, had some kind of pity flashback and then immediately forgotten about them is fucking unreal.
Every single time he gets stuck in the story or feels like dragging the plotline on he does this.

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Yes because when a character like Komamura or Unohana gets killed off, it's kind of hard to get invested because they're so removed from living people to begin with. Not to mention, Kubo always backloads character histories and motivations with big flashbacks.

In the first volumes when Hollows were interfering in the lives of ordinary people, it was easier to care about how the story unfolds. Even if you're a shit writer, if you make a character at least human, we can fill in the blanks with lived experience.

...

>t. wannabe fanfic writter

At one point Kubo just decided that the main cast wasn't fit to defeat enemies and left everything to Ichigo. This is even a problem in filler arcs in the anime.

it should have ended after soul society arc

Great rebuttal.
How about instead of blindly attacking me, you defend your argument?
Why does having too many characters help the story?
Why does Kubo feel the need to push so many people as a major character when they should have been left as a minor character?

>using frogmemes
>implying the claim I made needs to be justified in a thread covering that topic
You need to go back

that's like every shonen ever.

When everyone in SS and HM has existed for centuries with no memories of Earth, being alive, and no physical needs to continue to exist, they're more like machines than relatable characters. It's all so alien.

Fights dragged out for far too long and far too many ability counters. Then he made Ywach so OP, he had to bring Aizen back.

boards.fireden.net/a/thread/142918449/#142930018

Nuh uh, you're just a shitty fanfic writer

machines can be sexy

no way, Hueco mundo is the true final.

>How about instead of blindly attacking me, you defend your argument?
The irony >push so many people as a major character when they should have been left as a minor character
That doesnt happen

>The amount of times Kubo has introduced new characters, had some kind of pity flashback and then immediately forgotten about them is fucking unreal.
Its unreal because it doesnt happen

You're right, but Bleach does it a comical amount of times and always with the same kind of "close knit group of people who act like jerks to eachother but never stray from their company".

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>that doesn't happen
Do you really expect me to start listing all the captains and lieutenants who certainly had zero reason to get the time they received?
>They're strong so they're important!
Yeah sure buddy sure
do they push the story forward? Do they add to the narrative? Do they help the protagonist grow?
Maybe 2-3 captains and 2 lieutenants fit that criteria.

So I don't even read or watch bleach anymore and I know more about it than you, huh?

Not enough Rukia to be quite honest with you.

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It was a power that ran on a short fuse, other shonen have powers that are cool at climactic points, Bankais are only cool during their reveal meaning you have to switch out characters ever new arc

Rukia was the best character in the show until her personality was culled.

>黒崎 Kurosaki
>一護 Ichigo
>一 "ichi" meaning 1 or first
>護 "go" (kunyomi) same as the Chinese character for "protection" and means the same. Pronounced differently in this case because his parents decided so.
Remember in the early chapters when Ichigo says the duty of oldest sons is to protect those who come after? That's literally his name. Shit writing.
>黒 "kuro" - black
>崎 "saki" - small peninsula
So his last name is just incoherent. Nice one Kubo.
>His nickname is strawberry because 一護 and 苺 (strawberry) are both pronounced the same: いちご.
His first name demonstrates Kubo's lack of subtlety, his last name, Kubo's lack of ability to follow-through, and his nickname, Kubo's shitty punny sense of humor. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk Yea Forums.

copied from another OP but greentext added for readability

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Bleach question: How in the world does the power systems in this setting work? Mostly how the spiritual pressure stuff works? Been thinking about it lately, any big fans know?

It runs on Kubo power, the most erratic, flimsy scale in the known universe

She was the absolute best. She's still good later on but her actual personality almost never gets to show.

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The captains and leutenants had varying degrees of screen time, so some of them certainly were left as minor.
>They're strong so they're important!
Dont put words in my mouth
"No"

Person has unique ability, attacks run on spiritual pressure, you run out you are fucked

>Dont put words in my mouth
I couldn't if I tried, you're desperately trying to avoid defending your point.

>they're more like machines than relatable characters
They feel like characters because they get characterization. And they got more of it that the little children and hollows of the week.

>The captains and leutenants had varying degrees of screen time, so some of them certainly were left as minor
>captains
>minor
Example?

>It's another thread where Bleachfags ignore and defend every single flaw in the series.

Read what you just wrote. Then do it again. The one more time, really really slowly. Now go shove a pike up your ass.

Nerfed by editors, nerfed by the populace by prefering shittier, more generic stories, nerfed by the preference of other authors (Oda, for example) while giving Kubo no chance to truly show his personal style that almost went past shounen, forcing him to be shounen-like, therefore restricting him and impeding him from exploiting the potential you spoke about.

That's just the beggining, though, but also the most notable reasons. Some higher scholar than me please fill in.

Didn't Kubo religiously follow the popularity polls?

>Salty response.
Sasuga, user-kun.

>ignore and defend
i don't think that's possible user

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SoiFon, Rose, Kensei never got a spotlight moment, Unohana and Ukitake were relatively minor ultil they got their spotlight. The rest got frecuent spotlight. This isnt counting the traitor trio

> Main characters name is bad
> Therefore shit writing, lack of subtlety, bad humour

One of the few times I hope I'm getting trolled

Hell no. He forgot Toshiro existed when he was #3(?) in the third poll.

>It's another thread where Bleachhates ignore and downplay every retributal to their meme criticisms

>this isn't counting traitor trio, it'd destroy my argument
>they're villains, they don't count, hyehehehehehe
But more depressingly
>actually having to use vizards to pad out the list further
user, come on now
Are you even reading your own posts?

Basically the more reiatsu you have the stronger you are. That's about it. The more in touch you are with your zanpakuto (which is basically the manifestation of your soul) the more power you can draw out from it as well. That's about it really, it's simple but it does work

Then why did Toshiro get shilled so much?

-Kubo don't listen to the corporate shills and poll driven editors who keep telling him to make Ichigo and Rukia a couple

-Clashed with the anime staff over changes they made to his manga.

-Bleach has an adult fanbase and repels kids because of it's mature themes.

-Aizen triggers plot fags with his high level keikakus and lies. Tsukishima and Ginjo did the same, tag teaming to troll Ichigo.

-Kubo owns the right to Bleach, making Jump booty blasted that they can't make money out of it.

-Kubo was in shit health around the last arc and fucked up his shoulder.

One Piece had the most potential

Why dont you tell me why the others didnt deserve the screen time they got?

>counting vizards are captains
Lmao
I guess you're forced to count Rukia as a captain too.

Jump is retarded and goes by polls rather than kills. Hitsugaya is just popular.

>-Kubo don't listen to the corporate shills and poll driven editors who keep telling him to make Ichigo and Rukia a couple
Lmao you fucking idiot. She's a soul reaper. It would actually be unusual and different for a Shounen for the main character to hook up with a being hundreds of years older than him.

I guess, we cant count leutenant because thatd go agaisnt the claim that they all were mayor characters

Jump wanted to appeal to Ichi-Ruki fags.

One Piece is constantly reusing characters even introduced in the first arc

it should have ended when they went to rescue big boobs from the guy with glasses

Well we could take some of the core cast, and utilize them and nurture their characters whilst pairing them up with well written villains

Or we could stick a quarter in the captain machine, plink out a captain who's victory or loss is redundant (outside of "grr good vs evil grrr") whose death is ALSO redundant because they serve little to no purpose in the overall plot outside of shock value (Oh no my god! He killed Byakuya! Wait no never mind lmao) and also realize that with such a large pool of captains you also have to increase the pool of shitty villains to set them up with, increasing the bloat and lowering character quality further because we need to squeeze in like 5 different fights going on at the same time in every fucking chapter (and if you try to defend this I have to assume you never read the final arc) and-

Do I really need to continue this?
Do you really feel the need to defend character bloat?

It delivered what it meant to. I don't understand what people mean by it going wrong.
You mean why it dropped out of popularity?
Well because the kids couldn't get into it.

So many words to say nothing

Great argument user!
You really blew me away!
Victory is yours! Here come the internet babes!

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I accept your concession

Alright I'll dumb it down
>take main characters who should grow and be able to carry the story
>make them more defined
or
>take side character who's already been completed and fulfilled their main purpose
>needlessly define them further to the point they are now competing for main character position

Better?

>take main characters who should grow and be able to carry the story
>make them more defined
Good thing that happened, well except for Chad
>take side character who's already been completed and fulfilled their main purpose
>needlessly define them further to the point they are now competing for main character position
Good thing that didn't happen

>after some faggots kept fucking with him on twitter
What?

Care to raise any other points other then saying
>no I remember it happening the other way!
Eventually Ichigo may as well just been the bus driver with all the captains having fun in the back.

Ichigo had the most screen time of any character in every arc.

Heuco Mundo added too many characters

You see a bus driver every day too
Screen time doesn't equal development.

Bleach had no soul.

Ichigo was a weak MC who was just dragged along with the story, and it relied to much on surprise just as keikaku moments and plot armor.

Well, all I can say is, at least it wasn't Naruto or OnePiece.

>implying Ichigo didn't develop
Ok I think I'm done with you

But Houshin Engi did that and it was great.

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Coyote Starrk jobbing was pure bullshit to me

The world and plot around the characters kept growing and becoming more complex, while the characters themselves (specially the good guys) remained mostly the same. Some characters just stopped growing completely at certain points of the story and this is probably because the cast got too big for Kubo to bother with whoever wasn't a fan favorite.

But Naruto and One Piece were better than Bleach and had better highs even early on.

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>Why Bleach went wrong ?
way too much talk stalling during fights
Ichigo power leveling like a Saiyan
villains/antagonists were predictable non-threats see: Karin never pegged Hitsugaya

Ichigo influenced the world around him in ways Naruto or Luffy couldn't. He got Soul Society and Yamamoto to reconsider their actions, and try new things for the first time in a thousand years.

So much that they were gonna make Ichigo the new soul king and set him up to die.

Aizen and Urahara drive the plot, but they've been stalemating for centuries.

Ichigo was a delinquent dropping bantz.

Arrancars are ranked by how much power they have according to Aizen's assessment. He demotes people who might rebel against him, and approves of anyone who can further his goal.

How, Kyoraku wasn't fucking around and fought dirty. He's not a honor fag like Yamato or Ukitake, and a power fage like Hitsugaya. Him, Mayuri,Byakuya, and Kenpachi are the only ones who get shit done.

Look where being a honorfag got Bromomura

The ost really made Bleach stand out as well as the voice actors just listen to the way Ichigo screams here
youtube.com/watch?v=7G8O6ivWdbo

>implying its still not the best of the big three

Only kids enjoy Naruto more and One Piece is more a cartoon than anime.

Kubo wasn't able to write any story that didn't revolve around rescuing a princess.
>Rescue Rukia
>Rescue Orihime
>Rescue Sado
>Rescue Uryū

>Rescue Sado
>Rescue Uryū
But that's wrong retard

>and it relied to much on surprise just as keikaku moments
Someone have a collage of every single "I'M BEHIND YOU" and someone looking shocked scenes?

why do so many japanese writers feel the need to try and spell out an entire character with their name?

okay??

Refined tastes.

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