Fate/Zero

More evidence Nasu is terrible at what he does, when his whole universe can't do better than some random thing Urobuchi wrote.

>edgy reddit tier with mediocre characters that all act like absolute retards the whole time
Not a single Zero original character is interesting or memorable and you know it. People still gab on and on about FSN and it's characters, but no one gives a shit about half the fucking cast from Zero unless they were directly related to the plot of the Stay Nights.

it's because butcher bothers reading fiction before making a story
nasu just throws anything his imagination allows him and allows it to tumble for the sake of money

Most people are a shit judge of character, just like you.

>piggy-backing on the world and characters of other authors makes you a good writer
Urobutcher hasn't made anything original since Saya no Uta but faggot like you still try and suck his dick.

>saying this when he made the best anime puppet show
What has Nasu made? Fucking Last Encore that's what.

>I don't know shit, but I'm going to pretend like I do so I can be angry.
Ok friend.

So you don't think that it indicates how uninteresting Zero's characters are given how forgotten they all are?

Zero is just piggybacking on the plot of Heaven's Feel, which is the true magnum opus of the Fateverse. That said, it's miles better than Fate or UBW.

>I forgot the characters.
>That means everyone forgot them too.
Given how enraged you seem to be at the moment? No, not really.

You are actually a fucking retard. He built the ground work for all of Fate working out of a shitty apartment selling porn games to otaku.

Great argument faggot.

Not even the best thing written by urobuchi, let alone the best thing in fate

Prisma Ilya manga is the only nonshit thing from fate franchise.

>piggybacking
>actually revived the whole nasuverse and gave nasu billions

>I'M ANGRY
Compared to what you've said, yes it is. Thank you.

What was there to forget in almost any of the Masters? The only interesting masters were Kiritsugu, Kotomine, and Waver. Literally one of those are Zero original.

Kariya was just a cheap tragedy, Caster's Master was such a edgy literal-who that I refuse to believe anyone actually remembers his name, Tokiomi was boring and just there to die/get betrayed by Gil.

FSN:
Shirou, Illya, Shinji/Sakura, Tohsaka, Kotomine. All original characters with character arcs that play into other parts of each other. We see different parts of their conflicts depending on what route you are reading.

For Zero they just fight each other and suffer/get betrayed/be edgy faggots the whole time

Except for Heaven's Feel.

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>I forgot the characters.
>That means everyone forgot them too.
You might want to change up your argument, since all you're doing is saying the same thing. Repetition doesn't make truth. Sorry.

>must watch

Refute it you lazy faggot. The Masters in Zero have absolutely nothing to do with one another and just fight the whole time. If you are a brain dead retard DBZ watching nigger you might enjoy that, but what made FSN so great is the bait-and-switch of expecting a dumb battle royale (Zero) and instead getting an intense character driven drama with some awesome fight scenes (FSN).

I just did. Ciao.

I'm disappointed honestly. I just poured a beer and was strapping in for a decent argument. Shouldn't get people's hopes up like that and just tell them upfront that you are a lazy retard.

What a shit thread. Zero was a mistake.

No need cares.

Zerotards back at it again.

Zero had better servants, FSN had better masters. When the plot revolves around servants being historical figures, guess which one would be preferable? Butcher properly did what Nasu failed to recognize.
>calls someone a dbz nigger
>what made FSN great is the bait-and-switch of a well executed battle royal with infinite potential in its setting into a pseudo-intellectual ideological clash of some japanese ginger faggot obsessed with swords
>awesome fight scenes
The fight scenes were shit covered with special effects and massive post-processing. Try actually paying attention to the fights, the choreography is shit. The HF Alter vs Berserker fight was literally just purple lasers and explosions.

>why isn't anyone taking my shitpost seriously!!11

Zero is easily Butcher's worst work.

no

You seem to forget that the original visual novel is many times longer than the zero light novels. It's easier to have better characterization when you have more material to show it. Zero did fine with it's characters in the time allowed. If zero were as long as the original vn then you might have a point.

>I just poured a beer and was strapping in for a decent argument.
Thanks for the laugh.

No, the best type-moon related work is the Kara no Kyoukai movies.

>Gills ripoff

The HF movies BTFO it in quality, production values and profit.

yes

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We can probably combine that. Something like "cunnypilled".

>Zero did fine with it's characters
No, it absolutely didn't. If it's short, it should have had less characters. If it wanted to have as many characters as it did, it should have been longer. Butcher's immaturity as a writer was showing.

honestly, if they do a good job with the Camelot movies it could top Zero easily

Or the main point of those characters existing isn't to be deep or meaningful but rather an obstacle that must be eliminated. Ryuunosuke and Tokiomi being shallow isn't as much of a weakness as it is simply to not waste time. The characters that needed being fleshed out were and those that didn't weren't. If Tokiomi had 30 pages of backstory that nobody gives a fuck about it's worse than just being a simple character. The characters were fine for the length.

If it weren't for Remaining sense of pain and Paradox Spiral, KnK would be pretty shit. Since they were ufo's early works they also suffer from the studios memes the hardest: shaky camera, blue and orange everywhere and excessive effects.

OST is peak Kajiura but so is Fate/zero

the godzilla movies exist so it's second worst

I'm not even sure Waver can be called Zero original. If I remember correctly, only Maiya was compeletely Butcher's OC and everyone else was thought up by Nasu before that.

Nasu win
Urobuchi lose

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Why do all of your filenames have that 3131313 shit you fucking inbred ESL

The first time they introduced Lord El-Melloi II is from Character Material 2006 yeah. I don't remember if it mentions his true name is Waver Velvet or not but i'm pretty sure it does say he participated in a HGW and joined the HGW dismantling later.

THIS. Not every single member of the cast has to be thoroughly fleshed out and explored, only the ones that actually service the narrative and themes. Otherwise shit just gets bloated and unbearable to read after awhile. Ryuunosuke and Tokiomi got their characterization to individualize them from and were eventually dealt with without getting in the way of the actual IMPORTANT characters. The way it should be done.

>wonder where the image comes from
>google'd
>r/grandorder story ranking
You can literally use the result of Famitsu survey this year
>What's your favorite main story chapter?
>Babylonia-> 2931
>Camelot -> 1028
>Solomon -> 995
>Shimousa -> 827
>Yuga Kshetra -> 648

>What's your favorite event?
>CCC Collab -> 1517
>Summer 2018 -> 1165
>Gudaguda 3 -> 613
>KnK Collab -> 302
>Christmas 2017 ->280

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The last HF movie could pull it off, but in my mind the peaks of the UBW anime beat the peaks of zero.

Zero is called that since it has no value numerically. Zero is nothing. Zero is shit.

>Not every single member of the cast has to be thoroughly fleshed out and explored
You're right but the problem is none of them are. Kiritsugu's shtick gets established in the first episode and doesn't change or gets challenged until the last. Kirei progresses more naturally but it's also just to "lol I actually enjoy being evil". Waver is good but just a normal coming of age story. Over half the screentime is filler even more than UBW's slice of life shit because there it at least characterizes characters in ways that matter for them and the plot. Don't get me started on the whole HONORBRU stuff he does with Saber that has nothing to do with anything. Banquet of Kings was cool but that was once scene and only for the interaction.
Not that guy btw

low tier bait

Zero has the best adaptation but it's still worse than any of the VN routes
also the Zero adaptation is flawed as shit with shittons of content cut

The original premise for the Grail War was mythological figures, though.

this but unironically

fate zero reads like the original story while F/SN reads like the subversion that would come out years later. the visual novel at least, not the consistently wack anime adaptions that cut out all the internal monologue and build up because trying to take a 6 billion word VN and make a condense it into a few hours of animation is a fools task.

fate zero is mostly just a very straight holy grail war setup where people have anime battles and clash over their IDEALS. there's nothing wrong with that and zero is a very good example of that kind of simple enjoyable story.
meanwhile in the original F/SN the entire point is that the entire grail war battle royale setup is a sham, nobody is actually following the rules or cares about winning and the plot ends up being about the feelings and tragic backstory of a handful of human characters while the crazy magic stuff falls to the background. and yet that was what the series started with, it's actualy gone backwards from most other series where the epic subversion was all in the original installment and the later stuff plays the concept much straighter

something like shirou beating gilgamesh would never happen in zero because that was a show about people fighitng using their special powers and weapons while f/sn was about emotions. shirou winning is just representation of the themes of the story and his character compared to gilgamesh, not who has the higher RPG stat sheet.

this is where someone talks about the sex scenes, as if anyone is reading something where there's 1 sexy scene per 30 something hours of reading as masturbation fuel anymore than someone watches conan for the brief scene where he's fucking a witch woman.

>the setting is about a battle-royale involving fantastical, true historical legends
this kind of shallow "dude wouldn't it be EPIC if these guys FOUGHT???" stuff is boring as shit. I already watched dragon ball as a kid and got my fill of this shallow bullshit.

I think posts like this are exactly why F/GO is popular

Liking F/Z is like the Type-Moon equivalent enjoying HxH normally. I'd like to talk about the things I enjoy about it like a normal person but I'm stuck with these faggots who can't stop overrating the fuck out of it and putting down other things. in T-M's case, it's worse because Zero is a prequel so it's not like it would have even existed had the original not been so popular in the first place. I'd love to talk about the things I like about Zero, but I also like F/SN and others as well. Plus too many secondaries who think Butcher created Zero from scratch or something

Does anybody even remember F/Z was a light novel series originally?

>well executed battle royal with infinite potential in its setting
servants are an extremely limited and boring story concept where there are just enough rules (servant types, the concept of people generally having one special super move, command seals and mana) to be extremely restrictive while at the same time being so open ended in terms of stuff like what abilities a servant can actually have that you can't enjoy the fights for their own sake. every single fate fight is just "haha, I actually had this ability as well the whole time idiot". there's no actual logic to anything that happens, meaning the only way you can be invested is if you care about the characters which has literally nothing to do with servants or the holy grail war or people being Totally Based On Historical Figures when actualy they're nothing alike outside of some wikipedia-tier trivia/references that dont mean anything.

f/sn became a success in spite of these concepts, that's why the VN was deliberately not about those things and the further you go through the routes the less this stuff matters, the more the "established rules" are thrown out the window and the more everyone realizies how stupid this all is and tries to do something more productive with their life.

fate zero is just "the one anime man used an attack against the other anime man" and a few scenes to post on reddit about how karia used a gun or bomb or something to kill someone instead of having a drawn out anime fight

You're right but you have to realize that these days, heck, even back then when Zero first came out, most people watching haven't read/don't care about the FSN VN

FSN Kirei is miles ahead of any character in Zero with quite a small amount of actual screentime.