ITT: Well written protagonists

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she's the mc of rebellion if that's anything

>she now just created her own cycle where her friends die over and over
No clue what you're talking about.
She absolutely is the protagnist, even in the series. Madoka was just a decoy protagonist.

wrong
wrong

No, you.

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>madoka
>good protagonist
her personality is as flat as her chest.

I don't know if you realized this but that's a compliment.

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>Calling a character bad is a compliment
Are all Madoka fans as retarded as you

You totally missed what he was saying.

Homura literally created so many timelines that a cycle was created in her effort to change things that she constantly kept causing the deaths of her friends and it all being reset, she even says this in Rebellion. "One day Madoka will snap back to it and they'll go at it, with Homura trying to obviously reset things again just to go back to the status quo."

It's kind of one of the points of Madoka, there will always be a cycle, Homura's, Kyubey's, Madoka's. It doesn't matter, some are just better or worse. Homura's is pretty shitty to be honest.

Holy shit, I haven't seen such a poor understanding of Rebellion in a while.
>Homura's is pretty shitty to be honest.
t. slave

magutards are in fact retarded

You totally missed all 17 layers of what he was saying.
Also, Madoka isn't the protagonist of Madoka Magica,
Just like the Ring isn't the protagonist of Lord of the Rings.

>Just like the Ring isn't the protagonist of Lord of the Rings
It isn't?

I hope you're being dumb on purpose
Madoka is the protagonist, user. You're not smart or profound by claiming otherwise. You're just wrong.

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That's not only controversial, but also kinda correct. Though I'd say that the ring is a McGuffin

>madoka is just like the ring
You jest.

I don't get it. Why didn't madoka just have homucchan fly the walpurgisnacht to mordor

Because Madoka ate too much spaghetti last night.

Yeah, and Gretchen is the protagonist of Faust.

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State you reasoning. If it's superficial meme reasoning, then you're just confirmed a dummy and probably just a troll.

There's nothing smart or profound about that statement. In fact it's very obvious, which makes it all that more amusing that you'd be stupid enough to deny it.

Madoka isn't even the protagonist. Homura is. Madoka is just a plot device that events happen around.

>Homura, the "real" protagonist, had less screentime than the fake one
explain this madotards

>Just like the Ring isn't the protagonist of Lord of the Rings.
Did that sound smart inside your head? Because the title isn't "The Magic Ring", it's "The Lord of the Ring". Now, who do you think the lord of the ring was?

It is clear you have no interest in a genuine discussion, but are merely looking to stir shit and call anons names. Watch Madoka 20 more times, read Faust and Zarathustra and then get back to me.
The hobbits we met along the way?

Well this thread went off topic.

I still don't see your reasoning, pretentious fag.

Blame the hipster madokafags who think they know everything

Case in point.

>The hobbits we met along the way?
Is that how you cope with having made an incredibly stupid and nonsensical statement?

The show is about homuras struggle, or "jihad". After only 1 rewatch it should be obvious, the firat 6 episodes are much more enjoyable with the knowledge of what comes later, their all talking to homura.

Are you under 10 rewatchs perhaps?

>cope
You realize there is more than 1 person replying to you, right, Yea Forumsedditor?

>It wasn't me I swear!
Embarassing.

>It's about Homura because I say so
Then why was the climax of the story Madoka's wish, the conclusion to Madoka's character arc, and not Homura's fight with Walpurgis, which lasted a pathetic 4 minutes?

I would expect at least "have sex" or "seethe". What a disappointing retort.

I know why your here, its because Yea Forums is garbage, I dont blame you, but dont track your shit here

Mado disapears and your left with homura at the end, meeting her family and talking to qb. Then the movie that she is also the protag in.

You sure are well versed in Yea Forums lingo, I guess that explains the quality and insight of your posts.

The series is Madoka's story, user. It's about her struggle to found out how to be a hero.

I bet that reply sounded clever in your head.

She's cute and also looks like Madoka.

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Not really, there wasn't even an analogy with a reknown european fantasy novel in it.

*renowned

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Wrong thread fag.

How can she be a protagonist if she doesn't have any strong will of her own?

She does though
That was part of the point of her arc

Madoka is the protagonist of the anime. She had the most screentime, the story revolved around her arc. Homura is what is called a dueteragonist. She's almost as important as Madoka, but her arc serves Madoka's, not the other way around. There's a reason episode 10 was episode 10 and not episode 1: Homura isn't the center of attention, but Madoka is.
>b-but Madoka dindu nuffin da whoooole show!
she did do things, though it is true she isn't as proactive as you would think a protagonist "should" be. This is because Madoka is what is called a reactive protagonist. Protagonists don't have to be going out and be and fucking shit up the whole time in order to be called a protagonist. A protagonist is simply the center of the story's attention. Another way to say protagonist is "main character", after all.

Anyone who thinks Homura is the protagonist of the 12 episode anime/first two movies thinks they're smarter than they really are, or is just a biased Homurafag.

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He's actually not wrong, and Homura's world is a sham, it's not what Madoka wanted, it's what she wanted. She shits on Madoka's wishes. Love turned into Obsession and Control. They'll repeat their back and forth until the end of time, a cycle. He's not wrong.

Did you watch the flower scene?
Madoka's wish was to save megucas from being witches. Homura still honored that part of her wish in her world. The part Homura dishonored was the "with my own hands" part, which is why Homura calls herself evil.

What would make Madoka really happy was just what Homura did: make it so witches can be saved without Madoka needing to throw her life away. Did you even watch the flower scene? Despite Madoka being an amnesiac, this was an unbiased confession of her true feelings. Madoka doesn't want to have to go away forever and leave the people she loves.

wiki.puella-magi.net/Otona_Anime_Vol.20#Summary_of_Staff_Comments
>Urobuchi Gen - I think the human protagonist is actually Homura

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Homufags btfo with facts and logic

Don't type up dumb shit when WoG outright says you're wrong

The quote clearly lacks the proper context and you're being disingenuous. What exactly does Urobuchi mean by "human protagonist." You clearly don't know since because the page says nothing else but that context-less quote.

My reasoning is perfectly sound, and no amount of baseless "lolno you're wrong" will change the fact I'm right.

Reminder that Madoka isn't the real protagonist
Sayaka is.
She has more screentime than Homura and she does more things than Madoka. That makes her the protagonist by default.

Checkmate, Homutards.

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You really need context for a statement from the author himself that simply says Homura is the protagonist? And you say I'm the disingenuous one, imagine thinking your reasoning takes precedence over the words of someone that actually wrote the fucking story.

Why don't you make the argument for Urobuchi, if he is indeed claiming the same as you. Is it because you have no real argument and just going by your feelings?

>if he is indeed claiming the same as you
What is Gen claiming? How the hell does an author make claims about his own story? Saying "anyone who thinks homura is the protagonist thinks they're smarter than they actually are" is fucking hilarious, you're practically saying you know more about the story than Gen himself.

Not seeing an argument yet.

WoG btfo your reasoning because it's not possible for you as the audience to know more than the creator about his own work. There's your argument.

sayaka is such a cutie and a real hero. she deserved better

I didn't see Urobuchi make an argument either. Since you're hinging on his opinion (which he did not explain, it seems), please explain it for him. Otherwise, it's just a baseless opinion with no more validity than you own.

Homura is not the actual focus of the story til later on, therefore she is not the protagonist until that point. Madoka is also still a protagonist at that point and is the protagonist throughout.

episode 10 reveals that Homura is the real protagonist all along, retard

I know it's a really hard concept for you to grasp but authors know everything about their own story when they write it. An author does not have to make an argument because his word is fact, he came up with the story, he knows everything about it. If there's a confusing element in the story and people speculate about it, he can come in and give an answer. People often take the authors word for it because the author created the series, they have complete knowledge. The people who don't are retards like you that think they're smarter than the author and can come up with an answer based on reasoning alone without complete knowledge of the series.

How? Because it's a backstory episode? Homura's character merely exists in support of Madoka's story. Homura's big moment was the walpurgis fight, which was immediately overshadowed by Madoka's wish, which was the real climax of the show. Then the focus goes to Homura so we can feel the loss of Madoka most succinctly.

>muh word of god!
I'm still not seeing an argument

>later events retroactively make Homura the protagonist
not how that works buddy. Read a book nigger

I'm not gonna argue with you anymore if you seriously think you're smarter than the author when it comes to their own work.

I don't think you understand the author's words in the first place.

Still not seeing any arguments from you.

I gave you an argument retard, you can't refute the fact that authors are more knowledgeable about their own work than a pretentious brainlet like you that thinks they can figure out shit based on reasoning.

Please explain why you think Homura is the protagonist without hanging on to your false interpretation of the writer's words, please.

Are you seriously stupid to the point of thinking there are other ways of interpreting what he said? Just accept your reasoning was pointless and WoG takes precedence over anything you could ever come up with.

Please explain your reasoning on why Homura is the protagonist without resorting to "because the writer said so." I'm genuinely curious.

You are actually a double digitter. WoG shits on your reasoning and there's no need to argue how she's the protagonist when we have a statement from the writer himself. Humble yourself and stop posting dumb shit when there's already an answer.

Homura does not fit the definition of what a protagonist is, but Madoka does. That's why I don't buy that Urobuchi quote.
I don't care what Urobuchi thinks, I want to know what YOU think. Why do YOU think Homura is the protagonist and not Madoka? You have yet to tell me that.
Please tell me.

Because I trust the writer to know more than me about his own series you dipshit.

Don't be a sheep. Tell me. Be a big boy and think.

What are the reasons you think Homura is a protagonist in the context of the anime. No meta reasoning this time.

leave the poor man alone, just let him have this

The specification of "Human" is important, because Madoka, frankly, isn't.

She's a messianic figure, for both Kyubey and Homura: An apocalypse and salvation rolled into one for the Incubators, and the sacrificial lamb for Homura.

This is the actual reason why Gen's quote is interesting: When you acknowledge that Madoka is fundamentally nacent (and later, not so nacent) divinity, Homura's position as protagonist becomes clear.

Under the previous discussion of deuteragonists: The irony is that Madoka does not actually experience much of a shift: She's always been willing to sacrifice herself against the Walpurgistnacht, which is why it falls to Homura to follow an arc, from the desperate girl making a powerful wish to the Promethean Lucifer figure of Rebellion.

If you disagree, please elaborate on Urobochi's interview further: He didn't randomly throw "Human" into the statement without meaning.

not even best magical girl

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I don't know how many times I have to tell you, your peanut brain can't seem to understand that WoG alone proves she's the protagonist. Any and all reasoning is pointless. The author knows everything about his series: the narrative, the plot, the setting, the characters, their roles in the story, if he says Homura is protagonist then she's the fucking protagonist. Don't think you can reason everything about a fictional work.

But that's a dumb bird

Madoka's arc was about a shift in attitude/perspective rather than a shift in personality.
Madoka is definitely the protagonist (thought not a traditional one), I agree. Homura definitely would've been a more traditional protagonist if she was the real one.

You absolutely can, though. It's art.

Conserve that ground: Madoka exists as an naive observer to the world of Mahou Shoujo, and spends a majority of her time acting as the catalyst, audience or complication in the other character's story.

Her shift in perspective is not a change of heart, but a change in comprehension: Once the audience-cum-Madoka has the full picture of the cycle and her power in its context, it's trivial: She realizes she only needs to make the proper wish to resolve the plot; functionally demanding divine intervention (from herself amusingly) to give the characters in this tragedy some semblance of a happy ending.

On the other end of the spectrum, we follow Homura as she develops. She's virtually unrecognizable once she's followed the loop this often. She's the prime mover in the plot and is fundamentally fighting the ultimate conclusion. Her struggle is what inspires Madoka to take a similar role, carrying the burden of all of the magical girls just like Homura tried and failed to shoulder just Madoka.

And walking into Rebellion, Homura continues to be our protagonist; as in the depths of her despair, she tries fruitlessly to reach the truth within her labyrinth. When the Incubators fail to capture Madoka, she is the one who reaches out and seizes Madoka's divinity, choosing to reject the conclusion that damns her, and again shoulder her burden, (this time with the power to do so... perhaps).

You may establish Madoka as the protagonist if you still wish, but I will not concede that ground as easily as a tautology.

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It's fair to reason when there's an element the author leaves ambiguous but it becomes pointless when there's statement about it from the author himself.

You're right, it's not ambiguous. Madoka is the protagonist because she fits the exact definition of one.

You're wrong. The author who wrote the story, who knows who the protagonist is, who actually has experience with written works, says Homura is the protagonist.

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But Madoka absolutely is the protagonist of the anime.

She is involved with all major events of the story, is very much the center of attention in many of them. She makes key decisions (in which she often chooses to remain passive, though there are exceptions). Her actions drive the plot; even Homura reacts to her decisions. Though Madoka fundamentally doesn't change as a person throughout her arc, that isn't the point. She's fundamentally a good person, and the show wants us to know that, and one of the ways it tells us is by having her stay the same person, but have her shift her perspective so she can become a real hero. She is the major driving force, with Homura being almost or just as important. We, the audience, is with Madoka every step of the way, something we can't say at all with Homura. We're rooting for Madoka the whole time, whether that's for her to become the hero she needs to be or simply just not to die. Because of all this, Madoka is the true protagonist.

The reason people think Homura is the "real" protagonist is because everything looks so much more traditional and familiar when you look at things from Homura's perspective. But that's the thing, isn't it? The story isn't told from Homura's perspective, but Madoka's.

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POV=/=Protagonist

The reason everything clicks properly with Homura as the protagonist is because Homura is the protagonist. Madoka is the point of view and plot device (In the positive definition).

It's like saying Moby Dick's protagonist is Ishmael.

If you wanna talk about best magical girls I got the best right here

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