Why do people view Shinji as bi (or gay) because of his interactions with Kaworu...

Prison gayness is still gayness.
That's like saying a lonely virgin Yea Forumsnon falling in love with the first girl that's nice to them isn't love. It is regardless of the circumstances.

I'd still say he's bisexual but if you want to be technically, straight with Kaworu as an exception.

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Yes? There is a difference. Take /r9k/ for instance. They flirt with each other and like traps but in reality, if it came down to it, they wouldn't enjoy being with another man, because the illusion created out of desperation is shattered. By way of analogy, it's the same thing with Shinji. Shinji would have never jerked off over Kaworu the way he did Asuka. He didn't even get hard over him, and he did over Asuka and Misato in the neighboring bath.

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They fell in love and would do it no matter what Shinji's circumstances are. Kaworu's just his type.

Shinji isn't exactly bi when the only "man" he's interested with looks more feminine than usual women ('ethereal beauty') and is really the mother of angels.

He HAD those. Touji anyone? Rei also qualifies as friend more than Kaworu did.

Your argument was that desperation somehow invalidates feelings of love.
If a r9k user met a cute girl who was nice to him and he fell in love with her, it'd still be love despite it being desperation for affection from anyone.
It's the same with Shinji.

>Shinji would have never jerked off over Kaworu the way he did Asuka...He didn't even get hard over him
Kaworu and Asuka are pretty much opposites in their relationships to Shinji.
Shinji puts Kaworu on a pedestal where he's some perfect amazing person far above him. It wouldn't be a stretch to say Shinji worships Kaworu.
Shinji acted the way he did not because someone was being nice to him, but because someone as godly and ideal like Kaworu was being nice to him. That's why Shinji blushes and clings to Kaworu when he never did that with Toji and Kensuke when they were nice to him. It's not the same friendship we see with them, Shinji felt a whirlwind of emotions with Kaworu that we probably can't put a single label on.
The sex metaphor in the movie: proves that there was a sexual aspect to Shinji's feelings however. I don't think you can rule it out with what we're shown in their scenes.

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The jerking off was out of hatred not attraction. It's like the action that everyone is disgusted on him. Because he was in grief of Kaworu's death and hated a comatose girl for not being his fucking shoulder to cry. He wanted to hurt her.

Kaworu and Shinji are soulmates. It's beyond physical attraction here. It's just the typical star crossed lover tale, because Kaworu's Adam, the Queen Bee of Angels, and Shinji is the Eva pilot.
Anno could have played it straight(heh)forward and made Kaworu have a female human appearance (seed of life are shapeshifters) but he wanted to be more creative than that. Pic related is an official design of Kaworu choosing to shift as female.
He got way too popular in his current form to change him though.

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>They fell in love and would do it no matter what Shinji's circumstances are. Kaworu's just his type.
Various other manga and games where he shows up earlier indicate that's not the case. He even rejects Kaworu in the manga (where he also appears much earlier).

>If a r9k user met a cute girl who was nice to him and he fell in love with her, it'd still be love despite it being desperation for affection from anyone.
>It's the same with Shinji.
Different, because we're talking same sex (two males). He was around Kaworu naked and didn't get hard, whereas merely hearing the women in his life talk about boobs caused him to. He definitely doesn't genuinely swing that way.
As other Evangelion works have shown, when circumstances were even slightly different, Shinji didn't have the same feelings for Kaworu.
The metaphor exists but keep in mind Evangelion is full of pointless symbolism.

How would he have known she would have known, though? The notion that it was deliberately intended to hurt her is silly.

The official term is kindred spirits
youtube.com/watch?v=NSvibxt5yiI

It's the same, buddy. In Anima, they are literal soulmates, split from Adam. But that's not in Eva. I mean they fell in love at first sight with each other. Kaworu did too or he wouldn't have tossed Seele out the bridge after they carefully manipulated him and raised him for decades for someone who he just met.

I don't think you can use third-party spin offs as evidence when the staff that worked on eva usually have no part with them.
Even in the manga where kaworu is a completely different character, shinji still says he came to love him.

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>Different, because we're talking same sex (two males)
How is it any different?
Regardless if it's between a boy or a girl, two boys, or two girls it's the same. The circumstances don't invalidate the feelings.

>he was around Kaworu naked and didn't get hard, whereas merely hearing the women in his life talk about boobs caused him to
Is this really your argument? You're comparing a gag scene to the scene where Shinji is told he's finally loved in his life. The tones of the scenes are completely different.
If they didn't want to introduce the idea that Shinji might be bi, they wouldn't have had Shinji blush at every scene he has with Kaworu. Hell, they wouldn't have made Kaworu a boy in the first place.

>He even rejects Kaworu in the manga (where he also appears much earlier).
Manga Kaworu isn't an 'ideal' person. He acts like someone who lived in a test tube liquid who just came out and has social graces unlike Anime Kaworu. Sadamoto explained why he wanted him to act like a child.

Shinji is different in the manga too, in the anime, he's introvert and shy, in the manga he's more like Asuka, he blows a fuse and is kind of tsundere. That's why Asuka gets along with him as his friend.

And he loves him, he admits it in the end. He was attracted to him and wanted to deny it. So he was being a shitty tsundere.

Sadamoto said nothing happened with the girls and Shinji, and that Shinji has no interested in women. Only Kaworu was the only character who managed to get close to him. So manga Shinji is even gayer than in the anime. He friendzoned women, isn't into them, and is overtly sexually attracted to Kaworu. The only reason why Sadamoto masked their kiss as CPR but ended up being kissing was because Sadamoto was embarrassed. He confesses it on the interview of Kaworu's book.

>How would he have known she would have known, though?
He wasn't rational, and she found out later. He was wrapped on his feelings of "hatred" according to the script. If you want to use attraction with Asuka, there's the hotsrping scene, that jerk off scene wasn't about attractive and was about Shinji being a self destructive shitter.

>Regardless if it's between a boy or a girl, two boys, or two girls it's the same. The circumstances don't invalidate the feelings.
The male only thinks he's in love with the other male, when in reality he might not be. Loneliness can cause people to overreact to friendship.

Okay, you got me for the manga then. But he *is* a completely different character.

I'm going to need a specific quote. Does that mean manga Shinji is legit gay?

>Hell, they wouldn't have made Kaworu a boy in the first place.
They didn't have to either because Adam is as "female" as Lilith.

Anno intentionally made Kaworu a boy so he could be an "ideal" Shinji.
It's really about Shinji coming to love his ideal self.

Also he winds up with Asuka at the end of the manga too. How do you address that?

I wish I had the archive right now. Sadamoto explain that Shinji and girls didn't cross the "hand hold threshold" because Shinji wasn't interested on girls, then explained why he changed Kaworu (he based him on this foreign exchange student he had a crush on when he was young AFAIK) and how he developed them.

>Does that mean manga Shinji is legit gay?
Who knows. There are two Shinji. The Shinji who was protagonist of all Evangelion before the Impact (he has brown eyes) and the one who is reborn thousands of years in the future (he has blue eyes). Who is slightly different, and reuniets with some people in the end (Asuka and Kensuke, but the art spread implies of the pilots in winter clothes implies everyone might be back including Touji and Kaworu). At least for the former, he cared about Asuka, but supported her feelings for Kaji (he has zero jealousy toward this and acted like a bro) and Rei he dearly loved but wasn't a romantic feeling. With Kaworu, he sperged because he was probably closeted and Kaworu was weird as fuck because he was a literal newborn kid trying to learn emotions.

By the way, I don't think Shinji is bi or gay in the anime, but he does love and want Kaworu, it's more an exception kind of thing and the lines are very blurred because Kaworu's not even male ("he" is the female of his species).

>Yoshiyuki Sadamoto: Sadamoto: In fact, Shinji and Rei, and Shinji and Asuka, their touch stopped at holding hands. Everytime they hold their hands, it has a different meaning. It is one fun fact about EVA……So I never intend to let the children’s relationship go beyond that. On the contrary, Kaworu is the only one who overstep the boundary, he break the rule.

He meets her in a train? How is that winding up with her?

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I'm aware of that, I mean if he hadn't gone with symbolism, he would have made Kaworu female. Kaworu is mostly used for a female name even if unisex. I'm glad he wasn't so cliche.

I don't know about that, Anno also put same sex relationships in his other works like Love & Pop and his remake of Cutey Honey
Plus he reveals Maya is a lesbian for Ritsuko in the movie

He never ends up with Asuka, the one he meets last is Kensuke before walking into the snow alone.

If anything it hints Kensuke might have a chance with Asuka this time, he was seriously into her in the manga unlike Shinji and, unlike Shinji, he fell in love again.

Shinji was never jealous of Asuka obsessing over Kaji, even in the Anime.
Yes he's sexually attracted to her, but I doubt he loved her in that way.

They just met and felt a deja vu and he didn't think about her after that. It shows Kensuke after that sequence and Kensuke is interested again. He has serious feelings for Asuka in the manga, unlike the anime, iirc. He was cucked because Asuka was all 100% Kajifag.

I mean he isn't bothered at all to be even her mail to get on his pants and he IMAGINES them together in his mental sequence /when he remembers the world Asuka is portrayed clinging to Kaji). Unlike the anime which showed sexual desire with naked or alone Asuka, in the manga she's Kajizoned in his brain.

Yeah, in the manga they were bros and had a wholesome friendship. Maybe not as interesting as the Anime, but I liked that take on it too.

Ever think Manga Shinji was bitter and annoyed Kaworu called his feelings for him "disgusting"? It's like he would react negatively when the person he is attracted hates the way he feels.

It has to do with Shinji being more like her temperament wise, than introvert and shy. He just told her off more bluntly and didn't sexualize her which allowed their relationship to be more healthy.

I stopped trying to theorize about the manga, all the characters seem so much more shallow despite having more paneltime dedicated to them.

Kaworu and Asuka are my favorite characters from the Anime and yet they're my least favorite characters from the Manga. Sadamoto ruined them.

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I kind of like Manga Kaworu even if he's different from the anime because his concept is kind of good. He's really selfish unlike anime Kaworu and rightfully new in how to human behavior, any cruelty is like a child's cruelty (which makes Shinji kind of a pedo??). Manga Asuka is cool but yeah more shallow.

defining your sexuality instead of just choosing the people you like regardless of its genre is gay as shit

I would like him more if his character arc wasn't just a worse version of Rei's, a non-human trying to learn human emotions.
Anime Kaworu was all about defining his purpose in life through his actions towards human beings and choosing between life/death. It just seemed more in tune for how Adam, the creator of the angels should act like. Manga Kaworu doesn't feel like an angel or adam, he just feels like an autistic kid.

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Look can we just get to the smutt posting

I don't give a fuck. I'm more concerned with the fact that he was a fucking dick to Toji and didn't visit him in the hospital, or called him or anything for that matter. He deserved to get his dick chopped off.

Wrong, situational sexual behavior is not the same as sexual orientation. A single gay act does not automatically redefine somebody's orientation.

>be a total bro who would do anything for shinji
>didn't even blame him for snapping your leg off
>he ditches you to go screw around with some alien boy he knew for 2 hours
being toji is suffering

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The minute you commit a gay act is the minute you're not 100% straight. Circumstances don't matter, if you were capable of doing and accepting gayshit then that means you've got some gay in you bro. No excuses or exceptions.

Anybody who likes any characterisation from the manga better is a fucking idiot and a plebe. Sadamoto's "writing," is dogshit and his understanding of the characters in the anime is pisspoor.

Nobody is 100% straight. Even when you watch straight porn you watch other guys dicks.

Kaworu being a literal deus ex machina to 'save' Shinji when he was at his lowest is the major reason Shinji became so attached to Kaworu moreso than any actual sexual interest. Even after 'betraying' him, Kaworu then sacrifices his life to save Shinji and the rest of humanity. It makes sense that even into EoE, the image of god-like Kaworu calms him down because he was the symbolic projection of every emotional desire Shinji had.

I won't deny that there was probably a little bit of 'no homo' shit in it but that's not nearly as important to their relationship. Shinji just got what he desired from him, unconditional love without him needing to navigate ambiguity and give anything in return to receive that love.

If what Shinji wanted was unconditional love, then why does he still continue to love Kaworu after he betrayed him and broke his heart?

>If what Shinji wanted was unconditional love
Of course that's what he wanted. You literally had to not watch the show to not see that what Shinji wanted was to be loved without having to feel the pain of that closeness because of insecurity and ambiguity.

He sacrificed himself for Shinji and humanity while also telling him he loves him at the end of it all. Even at the lowest point in their relationship, Kaworu has shown Shinji absolute love for him. He literally kills himself so Shinji can go on living and that ideal stays in his mind.

>Why do people view Shinji as bi (or gay) because of his interactions with Kaworu

Projection. Shinji just craves any affection and love at all.

>feel the pain of that closeness because of insecurity and ambiguity.
But that's exactly what Kaworu does when he betrays him.

Kaworu betrays his feelings as far as Shinji is concerned and Shinji continues to love him. THAT'S when he realized what love was, because he loved Kaworu no matter what. That was SHINJI's decision and it destroyed him to lose him.

This.
Shinji understanding what love is through Kaworu is one of the reasons he leaves instrumentality.
Because his feelings were 'real'.

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It'a not that shinji is by or gay, it's that he's a 14 year old that suddenly found a person who shows him unconditional love

This.
>The minute you commit a gay act is the minute you're not 100% straight.
Doesn't mean you're gay. Sexuality is more of a slider with gay and straight being the extrema.

It may not mean you're gay, but it sure as hell doesn't mean you're straight.

>it's another "retards are angry about kawoshin being canon" episode

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Gimme some funny smutt doujins. Like the "hole circumstances" one.

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kaworu is an incubus
prove me wrong, you can't

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That band sucked

I don't get it

he can't think straight because he has a dick in his ass

>Nobody is 100% straight.
Reminder that not even Kinsey believed everybody was bisexual.

Kinsey was legit a fag tho. He probably believed everyone is either full gay or part gay, but not ever full straight

He had 0, 6 and the X in his scale for a reason.

>a handshake is ending up with someone
If everyone followed your line of thinking, everyone would be married.

The suffering only adds to Toji's best boy status.

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>kaworu cucks asuka and rei from the loveinterestbowl
>kaworu cucks toji and kensuke from the bestfriendbowl
What a smug little shit

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No, he was definitely aroused at Asuka. He jerked off to her because he could see her bare titties. The self hatred is after he comes.

I think user is saying the point of that scene was to show how fucked up shinji is, not his arousal.
Scenes like the hot springs are much better examples.

Kinsey enabled pedophilia and even his backers, the Rockefellers, recognized his "science" was bunk.

Everybody on Yea Forums said Asuka won.

>everyone
Asukafags aren't "everyone"

>it's canon cus some neckbeards on a chinese cartoon board said so!

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I was told the manga had an asuka end, read it for myself and then laughed and how much of a nothingburger it was.
He pulls her out of a crowd, talks to her for a panel, then says goodbye.

>Everybody on Yea Forums said Asuka won.
The staff laughed at the idea of Shinji and Asuka being a romantic couple in events. Not in a good way, like deresily. Just because western waifufags tell you a think it meanss jackshit. Specially when Anno was going for tolerance even if she's disgusted by him instead of love.

I'm happy Sadamoto kind of made a tribute of Nadia with Kensuke and Asuka possibility. Kensuke is designed exactly as Nadia's boyfriend and Asuka has her personality (Shinji her design).

People on Yea Forums also say Anno is an Asukafag even though he turned her into a complete side character in Rebuild who had two cameos for the entirety of 3.0
I've learned not to trust Yea Forums when it comes to Eva

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you sound like a fag

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I doubt it's tribute, Sadamoto is just shit as drawing unique faces for his younger characters

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Mary Sue Deux ex Machina.

he's an eldritch abomination who feeds off the tears of otaku

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>implying it's not because it's his OTPs he keeps repeating

He's MILF tier, literally speaking.

Yes, Kaworu was an idealistic form of love that was shown to Shinji. He learns what love is through Kaworu and now has to apply what he learned in real life with real human beings like Asuka or other people as they come back as opposed to the transcendental god entity that is Kaworu.

That doesn't mean that the main reason Shinji initially became so infatuated with Kaworu wasn't because of the unconditional love and care he showed for him without asking for anything in return and skirting around the ambiguity and insecurities associated with all other normal human relationships.

>literally admits in an interview his favorite girl is Asuka
>he's not an Asukafag

This thread is full of retards jesus

Fujoshit's basic boy toy.

>Everybody on Yea Forums said Asuka won.
she does though, homofags just deny it because it's all they have

>being choked while naked is wining
Ok asukafag

Today Asushin will be reminded

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