Are you fucking kidding me

Didn't Emiya beat Gilgamesh by saying "who said that a copy can't be better than the original?"

But apparently the older Emiya couldn't make a copy better than the original when he fought Berserker.

And he dies in 90% of timelines shown in VN.

Bad-ends exist aplenty you know? The whole point of Fate is to find the endings where you weren't brutally murdered. And even in HF he still dies in normal end when there's no more Avalon to save his ass.

The fight is different
The chains of heavens are specially effective against divine beings as berserker so all he needed to do was bound him and send enough high ranked to kill all of herc lives
Shirou in the other hand countered all of the noble Phantasm and the gil was to proud to use chains and even if he did Shirou wouldn't have suffered the same problem as he is not a divine being

>because he could emulate perfectly all of his powers
This is the part where the logic fails. Shirou can only access a portion of all GoB powers. As Gilgamesh has a LOT more than sword or blade-tipped weapons. It costs more mana for Shirou to try and copy those, if he can at all.

Reminder there is only one correct way to pronounce his name.

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>"who said that a copy can't be better than the original?"
That doesn't mean his copies are actually better. Also, Shirou says a lot of retarded shit like a retard he is.

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Sieg was a shitty MC. The necromancer dude should be MC instead

youtube.com/watch?v=-ncrDHH3z7g

It's only fair

LOL
More Like ShirOWNED

I think the line was about copy surpassing original, not being outright better.

Based shirou

I Shirou played chess, he would move the King to protect the Queen.

I like how all nasu's mcs are giant pricks

based af

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>If Shirou played chess, he would move the King to protect all other pieces.
ftfy

Yeah while most of the other stuff is people nitpicking or being fully retarded this one with Archer vs Berserker is one that I have issue with.
The fight vs Gil states that both Gil weapons and Shirou weapons break on impact with each other so he could match Gil's NP and it is shown that Archer and Shirou can summon weapons out of thin air and fire them Gil style even outside of UBW.
So what stopped Archer from beating Berserker or at the very least leaving him with only 1 or 2 lives?
Gil stated he might have chance if he stopped protecting Ilya but having a shot is not a certain win.
At the very least if he left Berserker with 1 or 2 lives it would make the Caliburn scene less bullshit.

OH NO NO NO NO

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its simple hack nasu had to make the retarded ginger win hence he won, stop trying to apply logic/powerlevels to plot armor user.

>The fight vs Gil states that both Gil weapons and Shirou weapons break on impact with each other
That's because they're the same weapon and conceptual fuckery gets all weird when you have the same magic shit clashing against each other.

>People still seethe at their golden god getting beat

It makes perfect sense and is thematically appropriate both to the themes of the VN itself and Gil's personality. Shirou doesn't even beat him. You post this image like Shirou cutting off his arm would have done shit.

Tl;dr, Cope.

>Apocrypha followed the standard Hero's Journey format
>Sieg isn't plot-armored to fuck when he is literally handed every power he has with no actual struggle
user, there's no need to go complete fucking full retard

Rank penalty for projections.

What if Gil had been a girl tho?

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I agree that the mongrel winning was a load of bull. They had to portray Gil as a weapon´s collector and king rather than as hero for that to work when in the actual legend the only being close to Gil´s power is Enkidu. (which BTW is a copy of Gil, a faker if you will, created by the gods to smash the arrogant prick down... yet Gil recognizes himself in Enkidu and they stablish a bromance of legend. A bromance so strong that when Enkidu is killed Gil goes fucking nuts)

Considering that i´ve always thought Gil disdain for Archer was due to him feeling someone trying to replace Enkidu... but in any case he shouldn´t be portrayed as useless.

>Gilfujos are STILL Seething over this

>Considering that i´ve always thought Gil disdain for Archer was due to him feeling someone trying to replace Enkidu..
Gil values what people can create, that's why he hates faker who just copies shit.

See exhibit Ilya

Gilgamesh is prideful and want to prove that his swords are better than Shirou's copy. So he chose to only throw swords at Shirou. Not only that Gil can't use the swords to their full potential while Shirou inherits their wielder's ability to an extent while wielding them.

Imagine if Saber had her own Luvia, except that Luvia was a psycho. Also, the whole faker stuff would come off as being tsun for Shirou, even if she's actually trying to murder him.

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Gilkeks literally on suicide watch

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>what are broken phantasms

Can't just sword spam those.

The show depiction is pretty bad, but the VN version makes perfect sense. And I'm saying this as a Gilfag.

Gil doesn't 'use' weapons he throws them so a replication does an adequate job of stopping them, Shirou mentions this in the fight (about a servant who has mastered a weapon)
Berserker is immune to any attack below rank A AND once he is killed by an attack he gains immunity to that specific attack immediately after, this is why Gil destroys him because he has limitless unique A rank weapons while EMIYA's forgeries suffer from a downrank to B making them largely useless, still the fact that EMIYA manages to kill him ~7 times shows how resourceful he is

Alarm clocks really are degenerate though.

How come when a Servant is killed the master doesn't just immediately resummon them

Grail does the summoning and it won't just give mana for free again.

Grail-kun please give me mana again

gilbro...

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Wait for about 7 years. HGWs in Fuyuki happen once in 50 years for a reason.

Dont mind me just posting my favorite Shiro

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They need to do another one because this series is getting stale with shows about side characters. It's like going to a Jurassic Park movie to see two hours of random genetic engineers talking about gene sequencing instead of cg dinosaurs wrecking shit.

I know it was just for the sake of Shirou being MC later on, but at least Archer should have left Berserker with only 2 lives it would give space for the Rin kill and the Caliburn kill without making it look like on spot bullshit.

Before Shirou gets UBW out and realizes what he can truly do his projections get blown up by the real ones because projections are one rank lower.

And yet during the Gil fight his swords were breaking the originals, either Shirou got really close to the level of the original or he's turning them into broken phantoms.

Archer could do the same he just needs above B rank phantasms which he should have quite a few, heck he comes from a Fate timeline where he had to summon Caliburn, just that is 7 lives at least if not more, Caladbolg is another, if the overedge of K&B work like in the anime that's another or even 2 with smart use, a projected excalibur even downgraded is still in the A territory.

This is just limiting that what we are certain that Archer saw. It's safe to assume that as a CG he saw more A-Rank NP.

Well, there's Strange Fake which will get adaptation in the future probably.

Caliburn taking 7 lives only happened because Saber used it.

Why don't they just straight up have another HGW? That's why people hang around for this series. That's what they want to see.
Thoughtful, insightful series exist elsewhere. This one is for historical figures blowing things up with magic.

In Fuyuki? Grail is dismantled by Waver 10 years after Stay Night.

Just in general. I could shit out a plot for one myself. Apocrypha pretty much already did
>Oh that Holy Grail? Well fuck that one, there's an even bigger one and it's in Romania. Because fuck you.

Remember when Servants only had 1 NP?

Strange Fake is exactly what you're asking for then. Apocrypha's grail is Fuyuki's actually, just that timeline branched like 60 years before Stay Night.

>Saber
>Invisible Air + Excalibur
No.

No.

I can only imagine the can of worms it will open in the Shirou vs Gilgamesh once the Gilgamesh vs Enkidou gets adapted
>Gil and Enkidou in a friendly spar threatened the planet
>Ginger head beats Gil
>Thanks Nasu

Remember when half the Servants were in spandex sentai costumes?

Strange Fake also massively powercreeps OG Seiba who was supposed to one of the strongest servants.

Remember when Deen put Sakura in spandex?

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I actually do, but I forgot the context of the scene.

whore dressed as one, don't see the problem

>Gil acts like a retard and jobs
I’m a Gilfag and even I know this is exactly the sort of shit he does

Literally never?

Because it's never about powerlevels, it's about compatibility. Not like the powerlevelposting DBZfags would ever understand.

Good luck getting that into the head of many people. Richard spamming excaliblasts (even if they are not on the same level as the original) will be seen as being vastly better than Arturia considering he apparently uses it against Gil and pushes him back
It will be something like
>Arturia
>Had the original excalibur and Avalon
>1 use and is on the verge of disapearing
>Richard
>can throw excalibur blast from anything
>Spam endlessly
>fine
>Thanks Nasu

Who cares about the opinions of retards?

He's some ungodly combo of Lancelot, OG Saber, Iskandar and Achilles.

EX AGILITY.

He can summon his court, while Saber can't summon the Round Table Knights, which should work by the same premise but nope.

>EX AGILITY.
It has a cap, unlike, say, Achilles or Dantes

achilles is slower than richard

Why is he so strong anyway? I don't think he's that much famous and had so many great feats in life compared to others.

Well, we have angelica from prisma, the closest we may ever get.
Shirou does find her hot as fuck.

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>The show depiction is pretty bad, but the VN version makes perfect sense.
Having read the VN, I don't see how the anime depicted it wrong

>ex agility
What the fuck does this even means? He moves at the speed of light?

That has literally never been the case. I think they're technically supposed to have 1 NP but every Servant has a second or third one they keep in hiding

speed of sound

Strange Fake wanks all Servants.
I hate how with every new Entry, the Fifth War Servants (basically everyone there is supposed to be top tier) look worse and worse.

He dodges Gil's sword spam by just running.

his NP makes him even faster than his innate A+

Almost all Servants are like supersonic though.

fuck off, secondary

In their reaction time, not in consistent movement speed.

I dunno user, Herc, Cu. and Medusa would still be winning candidates in strange fake and apoc

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Medea too

>secondary
>implying stats are consistent

>Herc
>Alcides is literally better Herc
>Medusa
>Cybele literally never works
>Cu
>jobs

- EMIYA killed Berserker 6 times over in Fate
- Gilgamesh was aiming for both Berserker and Illya during UBW, Gilgamesh literally says Berserker could put up more of a fight if he decided to forgo Illya (He never did)
- EMIYA's weapons are a rank lower than the original unless he does a broken Phantasm, and against Berserker there's no much time to do so
- Chains

See, Medea is said to be one of the Top 5 Magi in history, yet she's also known to be the weakest Servant in the fifth (word of Nasu) and she can't even summon Phantasmal Beasts (something even fucking Semiramis can do)

Why are Casters so shit?

I like hyppo

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Other classes have magic resistance. Unless you're someone like Solomon, you're at disadvantage being caster class.

EX has never meant outright higher than A++ or whatever, it's unquantifiable on the E-A scale

Fuck off.
EX means "Exceeds limits of system"
Star (*) means "Unquantifiable".

FGO is to blame for this.
Probably couldn't figure out a way to implement Star so the lore suffers.

me in the center

She can summon the dragon she just cant control it. Medea's problem is that she die the moment even a master decides to punch her.

Cope

IIRC her dragon is nothing special. Not even close to the level of dragons Artoria and Siegfried killed.

Isn't E rank meant to be like 10x the Human Average though?

Rin cheats with her reinforcement by using a jewel to supercharge it.

I don't get the Fate franchise.

E rank stands for 10, but there has never been information what that "10" actually means.

I fucking hate the Rin vs Caster fight in UBW.
>Caster decides to have a fucking conversation with Rin after getting rocked by a punch instead of literally just saying a single word and ending her life
God it's so fucking stupid.
Literally a single word is all she would need.

That was just a comparison brought up to showcase the difference between ranks, not an actual statistic.
Here's the actual quote
>For sake of argument, let's assume that a normal value is 1. In that case, E would be 10. And, every rank after that adds another 10, all the way up to A, which is 50.

how do you befriend medea

Don't be a dick to her.

how do you fuck her

Be Kuzuki.

Treat her okay

>way to implement Star
what's to implement? stats is just lore that doesn't have any effect on gameplay

Promise to marry her.
Then, if you want super late term abortions, bail on her.

Be a decent human bean with her, headpats and love.

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If I was nice to her, but shit Master (think Shirou tier magus or no curcuits at all), would she fight alongside me, or kill me?

pretty sure medea would dislike headpats
with a master from Yea Forums she'd probably be disgusted and bail on you

I think she'll tolerate you but will be getting mana from other sources without your consent.

same as Sieg after Gordes beat the shit out of him and Reika shot him

Headpats is the last thing to do, love her and have her love you, then you headpat.
Isnt that just kuzuki? just treat her well and dont give a reason for her to betray you.

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why do people care about medea when circe is stronger and not cuckbait?

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The worst part of the UBW anime version is Shirou is jumping 20 feet in the air, doing power dashes and shit, when up until that point hes just been running up to people and swinging his swords.

Who is Odysseus?

I literally don't care, she can murder everyone in my city for mana if she needs it.

It's really weird to see how in anime he deals with Gil's sword spam better than Heracles by just parrying them.

Fate/Go a shit.
No I’m not a gil or jetfag.

she hates him

>Shirou using an alarm clock in HF2
What did they do to my boy...

He absorbed Archer's skills so that's why

Using K+B and UBW+huge mana boost from Rin=Basically Archer

He's forsaken his ideals.

We dont know who is "stronger" though, didnt medea receive her staff from Hecate herself?

So not using alarm clocks is part of being seigi no mikata? Kiritsugu didn't use them too then?

Kiritsugu is an existence incompatible with alarm clocks and watches.
Time Alter is a bitch.

circe is called a genius of magecraft when compared to medea

Its been nearly 6 years. Just let it go Gilcucks

I had finally forgotten about the studio deen.

Ufotable needs to do a fate/stay remake or movie.

>High Speed Divine Words: B
Thanks, FGO.

Basically, merely facing Gate of Babylon gave Emiya a MASSIVE capacity boost.

Before that, the best Emiya could do was a shitty copy of a previous opponent. Shitty saber, shitty lancer, shitty archer, etc. Each opponent only had one Noble Phantasm ('cept Archer because HAX)

But Gilgamesh had ALL THE SWORDS and every time he pulled out a new one, Shiro got more powerful. So Stalemate. Gil summons a blade, Shiro copies it. Repeat until nauseous.

Except Gilgamesh didn't bother to learn to use ANY of his weapons. Only thing he had which was his own was Enkidu and that was mostly for tying up Gods. Emiya, on the other hand, understood everything about any sword he recreated (hence how he makes copies) and that included how to use them. Thus, when it came down to an actual swordfight, Shiro knew what he was doing while Gilgamesh didn't.

irrelevant
+ her recently released mats literally call her medea's superior whn it comes to magecraft

>has lines for Odysseus and Penelope in her entry

There's literally no reason for that other than the fact HSDW: A is probably the best skill in the game.

>literally nerfing servants for in game balance purposes
FUCK FGO

No

Aruturia
- Invisible air
- Excalibur
- caliburn
- Avalon

Rider
- Bloodfort
- Bellerephone
- breaker gorgon

>her line is literally "I hate odysseus"

>he created an infinite number of fake magic swords to beat infinite number of real magic swords. Gil got BTFO, that is all you need to know user.
Except Gil has better stats, speed, luck and everything.

stronger based on non-canon

>caliburn
she doesn't have it
>invisible air
linked to excalibur
>avalon
she doesn't have it

post fate-related supplemental material that says otherwise. If not, it's just made up fandom powerlevel garbage

>invisible air
>linked to excalibur
They are two different NPs though

>avalon
>she doesn't have it
It's still Saber's NP

>stats mattering in Fate

>based on character mats
Sorry Medeafags.

>Teachings of Circe (キルケーの教え, Kirukē no Oshie?) is a Skill that represents the time where princess Medea learned magecraft in the temple of the moon goddess Hecate, along with another senior apprentice, the witch Circe. It was Circe who was the real prodigy at magecraft,

Is Circe part of "top 5 casters" along with Medea then?

>literally nothing

guess seniors are always stronger no matter what amirite

People gay when they get fucked.

seething medeatard

Can Archer or Shirou make others their servant by stabbing them with projected Rule Breaker?

Maybe, but he's too stupid to consider it

He can sever their contract but couldn't recontract like Medea can.

What's the idea behind that?

Sword spamming rule breakers might be viable strategy for him.

>linked to excalibur
So Ea, Enkidu and every NP Gil pulls out of GoB is the same as GoB?

>she doesn't have it
At the end of Fate she does, that's exactly why she wins

but not in zero/UBW/HF

>Gil doesn't need a Master
>Sasaki is bound to the gate and could stick around after Caster died in UBW
>Caster wasn't getting mana from Kuzuki anyway
>Rider also wasn't getting mana from Shinji anyway (hell, destroying Shinji's book ends up powering her back up)

>Can't hit Berserker through God Hand
>Cu would dodge

Rider and Caster still need an anchor to keep them in the world or they'll disappear soon. That's why independent action is such a useful skill.

Rider has independent action.

Thats not how it works, he would need to declare the NP name, if not medea would also use rule breaker as a projectile. NPs need to have its name declared if they arent passive.

I just finished playing Fate/Stay Night, hands down HF was my favourite. I’m planning to start Tsukihme, does it have any scenes similar to Kyrie Eleison or Nine Lives Blade Works, they left a strong impression on me

>Alcides is better Herc.
That’s wrong. Unless you’re comparing shitty Berserker Herc to Alcides. Archer Hercules is better because he’s not a faggot and so gets his full bravery, Godhand, which is better than 12 shitty to ok Noble Phantasms. Even better is how much synergy it has with his pelt which he has as Archer Herc, not just Alcides.

WHOA A GETS BRAVERY THE TOTALL USELESS SKILL???? REALLY ???????

Iskandar dodged a point blank excalibur with D agility

Isn't rule breaker a case of passive NP though where it's enough to stab the target to break the contract?

Of course it was the Siegfag.

F/SN has about 30 bad ends to it's 3 "good" ends and couple neutral ones.

>if
>if
>if
The song of the gilfags

Nope. You have to true name it to use it. It’s not great.

Also a thing people forget about masters is that for the most part they need to be a living human tied to the present to anchor a ghost. That’s why Medea ties Assassin to the gate. Because she can’t really keep Assassin around through a direct connection.

Immunity to mind stuff and also is the skill that basically shows off his martial arts. Hardly useless.

Otherwise even as a Berserker he has enough willpower to actually do things that are impossible like break out of the chains or come back to life an extra time. That’s something that’s very much personality based and Alicdes is an emo raging bitch in comparison.

Not even a Gilfag, I just try to respect the source material.

>bromance
user, I got some news for you.

Tsukihime has its charms and you should definitely read it, even moreso if HF is your favorite route, but IMO it doesn't have any MAXIMUM HYPE moments that match Nine Lives

Gil is just pathetic, literally weaker than a high school boy who isn't even close to mastering his power.

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Sieg was Fafnir too. He should have been blowing the fuck out most of them.

Angelica has no personality.

>(which BTW is a copy of Gil, a faker if you will, created by the gods to smash the arrogant prick down... yet Gil recognizes himself in Enkidu and they stablish a bromance of legend. A bromance so strong that when Enkidu is killed Gil goes fucking nuts)
Enkidu creation has nothing to do with Gil in Fate, he was a new type of humanity alongside Humbaba and he was a NP of the gods.

It's not really that useful for Achilles in Apoc

Most stats are memes for gameplay purposes nowadays, we can't make a *4 too broken in comparison to a *3. Like how Solomon's territory creation in mats says is unrivaled and unsurpassed and is ranked "lower" than Summer Nero who only has a meme rank to increase her arts boost. Circe is straight out called superior to Medea in her mats.

>Solomon
>Merlin
>Morgan
Queen of Sheba is just as strong or more than Circe.
She's out the top 5 without bringing in the rune users.

To be fair she's literally a doll with the original Angelica soul shoved in there and damaged in the process that left her with 90% of her emotions gone. It's no wonder she has no personality.

>Queen of Sheba
Where's the proof

>Having read the VN, I don't see how the anime depicted it wrong
Shirou was in Gil's face for the entirety of the fight, because the moment he took a step back, Gil would have had the breathing room to annihilate him.

Shirou makes a huge jump to get away from Gil midfight in the anime, and doesn't promptly get his shit kicked in for it.

> Even better is how much synergy it has with his pelt which he has as Archer Herc, not just Alcides.
He does not have the Pelt. SF recently confirmed this.

Alcides has the Pelt, 11 other NPs including an extra life, the ability to overturn his conceptual weakness to hydra venom and GET STRONGER, thanks to his status as Avenger. Other grail mud-related abilities and reincarnation Pandora to steal powers.

Alcides is quite a bit stronger than Archer Herc.

>Morgan
no

>Medea
>Top 5 magi
LOL

Who's the top one, Solomon or Merlin?

solomon, it's not even a competition

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Who knows.

They're both powerful but Solomon's powers are explored more thanks to Goetia who used them to become a beast and plan Part 1. But Merlin also has the power to become a beast but chose a different path.

That sounds so counterintuitive.

So Solomon since he was the first? Merlin seemed like he could do the same shit but had a case of fuck it.

How is any of this retarded?

>Solomon or Merlin?
Neither is first. Both Solomon and Merlin are Grand Caster at the same time. Neither became a beast either. Solomon could have but had no will. Goetia took his work as the foundation to become a beast.

If we're talking magecraft and who has done more with it, Solomon is obviously better.

I thought Solomon was the first human to use magic and Merlin was the archtype for mages after him.

Shut the fuck up Gilfag.

Nobody cares about your shitty LN spinoff.

>here

>EX has never meant outright higher than A++ or whatever
Aside from every time it's used anyway. Only in FGO does it come up enough where there would be cases where it doesn't mean "really fucking high", but in that case that's exactly what it means in mechanical terms.

>Enkidu creation has nothing to do with Gil in Fate
His purpose was to reign in Gil though, that hasn't changed

>he is literally handed every power he has with no actual struggle
Not same dude, but literally this applies to every TM protagonist
Shirou: born with 32 magic circuits, accident leads to him getting avalon given to him and developing the sword origin, can create things just by imagining them but misinterpreted his abilities so he just did it wrong until either Rin or Archer helps him figure it out. After that, he's a million times more competent. No real struggle for his ACTUAL power, he just had to learn to do it right and then he can get pretty much any Servant's power (with a few exceptions)through his tracing ability. EMIYA Archer had to figure everything out on his own though so if we count that shirou, yeah an actual struggle.
Ryougi: Gets into accident, gets super death eyes, somehow has near super-human physical ability on top of super death eyes despite being in a coma for the past few years and her training was just basic combat training, nothing to allow her perform near superhuman feats. No real struggle, was just good with powers to begin with.
Tohno: Same as above, only worse because he only received the bare minimum training as a kid and is basically Ryougi on steroids when he's serious about killing someone. No real struggle either, just born naturally gifted and handed a power through an incident.
Sieg: born a being specifically with high circuits and pure souls able to take things in, has Siegfrieds power but has to learn to get good with it through battles on the field and fighting Fafnir nearly every night in their dream realm thing. No real struggle, just had to learn to either git gud or die, really.

>So Ea, Enkidu and every NP Gil pulls out of GoB is the same as GoB?
Isn't that the whole reason he's able to be so ridiculous in the first place?

It's stated in Salem.

Where.

>VN Shirou: I have to keep pressure on him and keep attacking or else he'll regain his composure and I'll lose outright!
>UFOtable Shirou: *Machine gun sword noises, spinning back flips away, running around and knocking Gil's swords out of the sky, FUCKING MID-AIR RHO AIAS
One is definitely more entertaining to look at than the other, the other, while not as flashy, acknowledges this situation as the exception and not at all the norm and is only possible through UBW's countering and Shirou's tactics to keep Gil infuriated and unable to fight calmly.

It's more complicated than "Took" when Goetia was born out his body too, in those Nasu's retardness of body soul and heart differences. But yeah.

They have different fields of specialty. Merlin is more defense oriented (but lesser on territory creation) and Solomon is more offense-oriented. Both are never serious either. Solomon never lived up 80% of his potential due to his lack of agency and passivity, Merlin fucks around all the time because he has a shit personality.

There were mages before Solomon, eve human ones. But they needed some kind of god's blessing. Solomon made it available for all humans.

Merlin's not the archetype for anything.

>literally weaker than a high school boy who isn't even close to mastering his power.
Shirou would have totally lost had the Grail not exploded on Gil though

Merlin's been serious plenty in Babylonia. And it's not "defense" or "offense". That's neither of their specialties. Merlin is a mage specializing in illusion and survival. He's literally a dream demon.

Solomon's "specialty" is summoning through his demon gods. He has the rings but these are just gifts from gods. He has a wide array of powers, really.

>t. anime secondary

What the fuck are you talking about? Shirou was completely burned the fuck out after UBW turns off

Yeah. Magecraft before Solomon wouldn't be passed through knowledge but something inherited by a blessing of a god.

This doesn't mean the mage who followed this system in Solomon's era were modern mages, they were still mages of the Ages of Gods, Solomon practiced Magecraft of the Ages of Gods, with circuits and ether of that era. But this system was able to be used later by mages after the mystery was depleted because it's still valid even if the world and their bodies (circuits) changed.

It's what happens when an unstoppable autist meets an immovable chuuni.

>GO newfags who worship Gil to this day still get mad at this

Hilarious

If Merlin were truly serious, we've seen his inhuman form, he doesn't cancel his human appearance. I mean overall, Merlin is superb with stall, illusions and healing while Solomon's kit is obviously more offense.

Doesn't mean fuck all when all he does is stand there shooting a limited amount of swords at a guy who's shooting an infinite amount of swords.
Did you even watch the anime or read the VN? Either one explains this to you very, very clearly.

All of the servants in Stay Night bar True Assassin are exceptional in some way and have more than 1 NP. The "average" servant only has one.

the only people who dislike gil are secondaries who are still mad about illya's death

>If Merlin were truly serious,
Merlin is truly serious. Admitted that he flipped his shit in Babylonia and apologized for the display
>we've seen his inhuman form,
Where ANYWHERE is this stated to exist or make him more powerful? What does this have to do with him being a caster? if you mean he's "not serious" in the same way that Solomon wasn't "serious" when alive (which has nothing to do with their mindset but decisions) then I suppose you'd be correct.

He's literally summoned with the pelt in SF. The chapter where he's summoned makes note of him removing it from his shoulders and placing it over his head.

I like him.
I just think he's a stupid rich boy faggot.
I like hating this stupid idiot who's pride is bigger than his minuscule dick.

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I don't dislike Gil though, he's great. I think it's funny how people who got into Fate from something other than the VN or even the Deen anime still seethe at this fight

If you laugh at someone for always fucking up, do you dislike them?

Funny you say that because Fate/Zero and the UBW anime changed him enough to make him likable in the anime. In the VN he's a vapid cunt.

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>Where ANYWHERE is this stated to exist or make him more powerful?
His mats.

Yeah Gil and Shinji are ridiculously shallow in the source material. Like if Fate wasn't Fate, you could easily see them in a lesser VN as the kind of antagonists who are just around to screw over the protag and be nothing but NTR-bait assholes.

The later material made them likable. Also probably Shinji's VA getting really popular

Solomon's straightforward not reaching even 80% of his potential alive due to his personality though. Not that is his fault when he didn't choose that.
That's why Goetia accused him of being "lazy", he squished Solomon's potential when Solomon didn't.

Why Toyotomi Gilyoshi?

Not quite. Shirou got a sense of what they do, but not the mastery of the ones who owned them in life.

He had my favorite powers and design in F/SN, but in CCC he became my absolute favorite nasuverse character

His Zabaniya can do extra shit when cut off

I generally ignore FGO because it adds a bunch of unnecessary wank and stupid skills just for the sake of varying gameplay. Hassan severing his arm and unleashing Shaitan was fucking stupid.

What if Shirou was a dad?

Attached: Shirou the dad.jpg (450x817, 264K)

>read porn
>surprised at shit writing and asspulls

Powerlevels in Fate like B rank or A rank always feels very arbitrary. One of the major aspects of strength is the quality of your master. Its like comparing 2 very similar cars but under the hood one has a decade old engine

>Shirou was completely burned the fuck out after UBW turns off
Because Saber used Excalibur and destroyed the grail, which sapped the remainder of Rin's mana and ended the reality marble.

The reality marble was already going down anyway. Rin noted how she was surprised by how much Shirou was draining after he launched it. He would've been exhausted regardless because deploying UBW itself is super impractical. It's a massive mana hog. Rin just has a fuckton of mana herself is an ideal master.

I liked Shinji in the manga, actually giving him some development and throwing him a bone.

Yeah but it would have remained long enough for Shirou to finally kill Gilgamesh.

Also powerlevel discussions in the Type-Moon universe are pretty dumb in most cases. Every fight is mainly about situation, tension and thematic importance.

Attached: fight with the best situation in mind.png (802x603, 565K)

It was cool, fuck off.

>Every fight is mainly about situation, tension and thematic importance.
Pretty much this. When I started just enjoying the fights for what they were and not what I wanted them to be, they become massively more enjoyable.

Attached: D_fQaTEUEAAxrXY.png (600x847, 161K)

No, it was unnecessary. It doesn't make sense for Shaitan to appear from his severed arm and was only done for powerwank. Hassan was more interesting as a tricky tactician who could lead his enemies into poor situations and take advantage of them in a one-on-one with odds skewed in his favor. He doesn't need the added ability to summon a demon that can wipe out a group of knights on super steroids.

>Also powerlevel discussions in the Type-Moon universe are pretty dumb in most cases. Every fight is mainly about situation, tension and thematic importance.
Exactly. Everything is rock-paper-scissors and circumstance. Straight-up powerlevels do not exist in any meaningful way in Fate. The weak can always find a way to overcome the strong and vice versa.

Daughter should be a ginger

Unless you're Ciel.

Unless Artoria had gingers in her family that would be unlikely.

She is.

Attached: GOchar1.png (625x688, 306K)

what they'll talk about?

How Merlin is such a fucking faggot Jesus Christ.

Fou go away.

Attached: fou fou murder merlin fou.jpg (1280x720, 148K)

Desserts.

Hassans generally can't fight against the Knights of the Round Table. If he didn't at least do that much, he'd be useless.

And that's fine. His whole thing in Stay Night was that he was able to defeat a much stronger opponent by outsmarting and driving him into a poor position against a living stage hazard. He could lead the knights into a trap or made use of the skills of the other servants on your side to pull one over on them, but instead they decided to give him the hidden ability to tear off his demonic arm and grow it into a full demon. It just doesn't fit his character.

It's basically a last-ditch suicide attack. Once he unleashes Shaytan, he's done for. It suits the Hashashin just fine. Complete the mission, even at the cost of your life.

The thing user is that’s generally how Demon limbs tend to work. Whether it’s with Merem, DDD or ect.

Then why didn't he use it in Stay Night? He had no reason not to use it against Rider.

Because in Fate/stay night, he had literally zero reason to use a suicide attack. He responded to the summons in order to achieve his own wish. He didn't fight out of loyalty to Zouken, but because he had a wish he wanted granted. If he got himself killed, he wouldn't be able to do that.
In the Camelot Singularity, he wasn't fighting for his own desires, but in order to protect the Holy Land and its people. His survival isn't necessary to that end.

Again, if he unleashes Shaytan, he's not getting out of it alive. It's pretty much a suicide bombing.

>suicide bombing.
Fucking Muslims.

Based Rabbit of Caerbannog wanting to murder cock wizard

>I think alarm clocks are degenerate

Attached: Kaguya Kek.webm (1554x874, 2.91M)

>アースミレイト = Arsimilat - Olga's middle name
>アース means "Earth"
>アシミレイト means "assimilate"

>Friend gets raped
>"good"
Jesus Christ Shirou, you've been hanging around Wakame too much.

the pic of his pose is just fantastic and ties the whole picture together

Ayako just got molested, bro. Medusa was draining her while giving Shinji was dreaming.

Rider drains mana by drinking blood though.
Like, it's not as bad as rape but it's still a pretty fucked up thing to do to someone.

EX literally means that there is no cap. It'll just keep increasing. Richard is probably the fastest servant these days. Achilles got powercrept.

Attached: Servantstats.jpg (639x294, 98K)

>His nps are a rank lower so even his highest rank NPs will be a B+ at best
>Even if he uses overloads the nps(broken Phantasm) that'll take one life at best and it takes a few seconds to charge up
>Broken Phantasm take a lot of Mana, even with Rin as a master it's doubtful that he'll be able to use 12 different high ranking broken Phantasms before herc kills him.

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Richard's profile notes that it's EX because it keeps increasing but caps at A+++ not because it's above the chart

Saber can't summon KOTR because of her faults as a "King", like Iskandar described in Zero. Richard is the exact opposite of Saber as a King, and is very alike to Alexander, so he has that power.

Is she stronger, truly?

Honestly, Achilles being so fast is bullshit.

I would have given such speed to Greek heroes like Orion, instead, the greatest hunter from Greek mythology. Only Hercules would be his rival when it comes to hunting.

Feels like Nasu just wants low effort crap characters instead or trying anymore.

EX literally means that it's above the chart. That's the definition of the parameter. His speed starts at B, increases to A through magecraft, and keeps increasing to A+, A++ and then onward to EX.

>Why anime characters always wait their enemy to get ready fucking stupid
Then a characters actually fucks the stronger one before he gets ready
>Are you fucking kidding me reee
Fuck you. Gil is actually not even that strong, Shiro explains it himself.

That's what it usually means, but it's applied to any parameter that is unmeasurable, regardless of the reason that it cannot be measured.

>Saber can't summon KOTR because of her faults as a "King"
>Iskandarfag wrong again
No fucktard, it's because she isn't actually dead and doesn't get abilities like that
She was thrown into the wars only what she had on her.
She doesn't get shit like sublimations of her life.

A proper Heroic Spirit Arturia might have an ability like that and could rightfully be called the Strongest Saber.
Basically Saber has cucked everyone who will ever summon her because of "muh wish".

Nasu doesn't make all the Servants. Achilles is Higashide's. I don't remember who Orion is.
Each Servant is credited to their creator in mats.

Merlin and Solomon are Nasu's, for example. As is Musashi.

Except his profile notes it stops at A+++

trace on, brain off

>A proper Heroic Spirit Arturia might have an ability like that and could rightfully be called the Strongest Saber.
She's a HS in FGO and she only has excalibur and invisible air as Saber.

>unmeasurable
>literally just B ~ A+++
Wot.

She has Avalon listed in Extella Link, so...

Tbh Arturia with Avalon is ridiculous. She doesn’t even really need much else beyond that as far as additions go.

>A proper Heroic Spirit Arturia might have an ability like that and could rightfully be called the Strongest Saber.
Galahad easily blows off Saber Alter who is a proper Heroic Spirit. He's the one called the STRONGEST of the Round Table.

Attached: Galahad.png (1280x720, 1.1M)

Literally impossible for Saber to be a heroic spirit due to the contract and Alaya.

She can either be a Counter Guardian or nothing.
As a summoned servant, it's just stupid fucking pandering.

>Mooncell
>Heroic Spirit
user. Moonceshit has nothing to do with Heroic Spirits but you hacking a shitty computer program to modify the Servants stats.

She doesn't get Avalon as a HS, because she lost it as part of her legend.

>Gil is actually not even that strong
Uh, for that universe, I'm pretty sure he is. Shirou just hard counters him in this specific situation

He's never called the strongest in Nasu's lore. Lancelot is still the strongest in terms of CQC.

Nasu said she just dies in HF, so will become a HF, may become a HS in UBW, and only in Fate she's Avalon for sure.

Literally impossible for you to realize she will break her contract eventually.

>counter guardian
No? Because she'll die and become a Heroic Spirit. Even if she has some weak alt as counter guardian, it'll be like Okita Alter, it doesn't change her Heroic Spirit self at all.

He's literally called the strongest and most virtuous in Camelot. Saber was a knock off him anyway, in Fate. Just a failure bitch who tried to accomplish his deed and fail.

>Moonceshit has nothing to do with Heroic Spirits
Confirmed retard. What you summon in Mooncell are Heroic Spirits and what happend in the Throne and in the Mooncell affect each other

If you're already worshiped by humanity, you become a Heroic Spirit after death, or rather your sentient records do. As usual. Heroic Spirits are part of the Counter Force.

>What you summon in Mooncell are Heroic Spirits and what happend in the Throne and in the Mooncell affect each other
You can literally hack and make up stats in your Servants in your shitty computer setting. This literally doesn't affect the fact of a servant regularly summoned in a setting WITHOUT your hacks. Specially Hakuno who is the literal RULER in the Moon.

No, you are restoring your servant's stats because you are shitty in the beginning and nerfed them to E. You'd know that if you played EXTRA, retard

You don't know about Extra. Hakuno in Extella isn't some fucking punk but the Sovereign in the Mooncell.

>Completely nullified and evaporated SaberAlter with her own Morgan while simultaneously instagibbing 6 other mid-high tier servants within a minute
>Not the strongest

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Hakuno in Extella has went through Extella Zero and even being the Sovereign of the Moon doesn't increase his servants' stats, as pointed multiple times through Umbral Star and Link, jackass. Altera even says at one point that Iskandar outrightly had better stats than Nero under Hakuno

No, when he gets summon there is no mention of the oelt, only after he becomes an avenger do they mention his pelt at all. So it's more than likely that he attained the pelt the moment he became an avenger, it just happened to materialized on his shoulder at that point. Not like the pelt makes a huge difference anyway, any servant that's a match for any version of herc would be skilfull enough to aim in the gaps between the pelt.

>Happens in a dream

the old UBW movie had a better shirou vs gil fight
prove me wrong

>There's an entire segment where Shirou just overpowers Gil with Caliburn
lol

In a match of alciedes vs Archer herc, God hand would be useless since they both have hydra arrows and hydra poison is confirmed to take all 12 lives of God hand. So in that instance alciedes would be the better servant. In a fight vs anyone else then I suppose God hand would be better since not many servants have an np strong enough to take 12 of hercs lives. At the high tiers(karna,Arjuna,enkidu,Gil) God hand once again becomes close to useless since they all have ways to kill him 12 times.
So
>Vs high tiers, Kings order is better
>Vs everyone else God hand is better

Archer Herc would just surpass his legend and muscle through the poison lol

I don't see the problem. See
>Shirou was in Gil's face for the entirety of the fight, because the moment he took a step back, Gil would have had the breathing room to annihilate him.

This is some next level Seibafag autism

Even a normalfag who doesn't watch anime or read manga would heard of the Orion Constellation

Nobody taught you constellations in school?

You never heard of the Big Dipper?

And now Narita makes Richard the fastest. Who the heck am I supposed to believe?

>Mash didn't even know him and still BTFO Saber Alter
>Tanked Almond Salmonella
>Fucked up Goddess RubixCube
>Fucked up Lancelot
If Mash using half of his power is this broken then it's safe to assume Galahad himself is around Gil tier

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Shirou was actually about to kill Gil before the grail interrupted him in the VN.

They make a big enough point of him removing it from his shoulders that it's heavily implied he already had it. There was no reason for the pelt to be mentioned specifically just like his clothing wasn't mentioned outright.

That's not actually how it worked though. The reason Shirou had the edge is because both their swords broke from each clash, resetting them back to square one. Since Shirou's on the offensive the whole time, Gil is forced to defend, which doesn't give him a chance to turn things around. Shirou's strategy also revolves around drawing the exact same sword Gilgamesh draws except faster. Caliburn is the worst weapon that Shirou could have used because there are countless weapons in Gilgamesh's vault that could destroy it without being damaged in turn, including Merodach. If Shirou draws the same weapon as Gil, he can ensure at least mutual destruction of both blades, but if Shirou draws an inherently inferior weapon then Gilgamesh would win easily.

If neither of their swords broke (which is what happened in that segment of the film), then Gil would just overpower Shirou.

The thing is, people actually like Shirou

I dislike Gil because he's an arrogant drooling retard rapist in the VN.

Attached: Saber vs Gil.jpg (800x600, 62K)

Emiya probably couldn't beat Berserker because of that injury Saber gave him, he didn't have Master support, he didn't use UBW, he was fighting in a mansion, he was trying to hold Berserker back for as long as he could and he was avoiding an easy win by killing Illya. Nothing was in his favor and he still managed to kill Berserker 6 times

Achilles has an actual Noble Phantasm making him the fastest. And he's from the age of gods. He's faster.

Percival was originally the most successful knight who found the Grail.

He was the original Grail hero. Got retconned into being Galahad instead.

Also, about the surviving knights of the round, they made penance and begged God for forgiveness, some entered priesthood, some took a vow of homelessness.

Meanwhile, what is bullshit is Alexander's army who did not feel sorry they engaged in a civil war upon Alexander's death.

In fact it doesn't make sense they are friendly with each other because these snakes in Alexander's army literally started assassinating each other, killing the family members of people they struggled with for power, stole spoils of war from Alexander's campaign, etc, etc

Some of Alexander's generals even died, cursing at their former brothers-in-arms. So like I don't understand how Alexander's army NP is possible because of just how much hatred, greed, and bloodlust erupted in Alexander's army after he died.

Meanwhile, sure there was hatred in the civil war that Saber was involved with but every knight that survived the civil war sought forgiveness and penance. That did not happen with Alexander's army. They died, cursing and hating each other.

There were better armies in myth and history that didn't fake being friends or brothers until their leader died.

Shirou goes through a lot of shit constantly both physically and mentally in every route, through every bad end and the story does a lot to justify these moments (in the VN) of him gaining power. Sieg is unironically, literally, handed his powers. Everybody else dies for him and he just gets powers. That's how it works in Apocrypha. Also Sieg is straight up blank slate, not just in character but in actual story execution which is boring compared to ally-of-justiceman who we actually get inside his head

It makes sense really. By all accounts of all arthurian folklore, Galahad is the one true "perfect knight". He was prophesied by Merlin as someone who would surpass his father and succeed in the quest for the holy grail. And he even defeated Lancelot in myth.

It's no wonder that he fodderizes the rest of the KoTR.

Shirou was flirting with her as he was fighting her and bleeding out, he's fucking awesome sometimes

Narita literally narrates Richard as the fastest Heroic Spirit in Strange Fake. And he gives him better agility stats.

Sorry your dude got powercrept. Take it up with them, not me.

Not him, but Achilles literally becomes faster than the fastest guy on the battlefield at all times when activated.

she's pretty petite for an Amazon Queen

I honestly can't figure out what the fuck is wrong with Narita.

Sure, he's the fastest heroic spirit. And Saber Alter is the strongest. And Heracles is the strongest. And Gilgamesh is the strongest. And Artoria is the strongest. And...
Learn to not trust the narrative, my dude.

t. retards that know jackshit
Achilles is the fastest at running. Agility is reaction speed and fine motor controls. Richard's AGI starts low increasing each turn till A+++. He still won't be faster than Achilles because his NP will trigger and make him faster in running

Percival was the original hero who found the grail.

It was retconned into being Galahad much later.

Also, when Galahad emerged into the folklore, some of the older knights literally disappeared and never interacted with Galahad, those knights came from an even older myth than Arthur, so it is hard to claim Galahad as the best knight because even in Arthurian canon, there was never a story about a knight of the round getting a chance to actually fight every member from the round because some writers choose to ditch knights they deemed too obscure or messed with the flow of their writing due to the abilities they were suppose to have.

We don't even know what happened to some of the knights because the writers didn't even feel like saying if they died in battle or just disappeared. You're just suppose to wonder what the fuck happened to them.

Proto Arthur is a proper heroic spirit and he doesn't have Avalon either. Both Arthuria and Arthur have similar stories and the only difference in their abilities(besides ranks) are their personal skills where arthur has great beast slaying and arthuria doesnt. So as the other user said, the abilities she has in FGO as a proper heroic spirit are all she has without outside factors. Btw can you link the extella mats that says arthuria has avalon? Can't find it.

Jesus Christ, this is some hard cope.

> Some narrative describes Achilles's NP as the "crystallization of the legend that he is the fastest" (not even that he IS the fastest, and the very descriptions says that there are Servants who can keep up with him)
> Narita's narrative literally calls Richard's speed as singular and matchless among all Heroic Spirits

Look Achillesfags, I like the guy too, but let's face the facts, please? Don't turn a blind eye to the obvious fact that Narita has and will continue to wank his OCs to high heaven.

It's a good thing none of it will ever matter.

> Narita's narrative literally calls Richard's speed as singular and matchless among all Heroic Spirits
Retard. Narita specifically wrote down that his AGI has an upper limit

Attached: Dumas and Richard profiles from SF.png (1292x840, 619K)

I want to initiate intercourse with Penth because she is phenomenally visually appealing to the point of biological and emotional attraction! Hippo, chase another dude and die again.

>Shirou
Apparently a Shirou at his max potential doesn't bake his skin and hair like Archer, he still looks the same

He never had a chance. Cope.

Who is even talking about it not having a limit. I'm just saying it has an upper limit above Achilles's, you complete buffon.

Lancelot is the most technically skilled out of everyone, Galahad might just be the strongest period

Achilles' speed isn't natural, it's the result of a noble phantasm. As NPs work in concept, if they were having a footrace, even if Achilles' default speed isn't higher than Richard's, and Richard accelerates to get even faster, then Achilles will get conceptually boosted to become even faster, above the rates he was already going.
Your speed +1 style like Arc and Fou.

I really can't understand what Narita was thinking when he made Richard this way. And for that matter, giving Dumas Mana EX is bullshit.

God, Christian fanfic is fucking terrible, at least Lancelot fucks up at the end

>Upper limit above Achilles' who has an NP that makes him the fastest hero
Retard

I didn't interpret him taking the pelt off his shoulders as any implication that he had it before he became an avenger though I could see why some people may think that. I'll stick to my opinion that
>When he got summon we got a brief narration of his apperance: height, bulging muscles mainly.
>Yet no mention of the pelt at this point
>He gets turn into in avenger
>Only then do they mention the pelt and sash too, which since they both belong to King's Order it is natural to assume they materialize the moment he attain the King's order NP.

so did Artoria get powercrept? Her fanboy is looking stronger than her

This is fanfiction user. Just because it's a sublimation of a legend that ~says~ he's the fastest, doesn't mean that the legend transmits as absolute truth, or even accurate truth. You're massively extrapolating powers the character doesn't have.
Besides, there's also narration calling Richard the fastest. And he has better stats. And he dodged a sky-full of countless omnidirectional GoB like he was frame-cancelling at a video game, nearly blitzing Gil. Do you think Achilles could almost blitz Gil and weave around endless GoB spam? Doubtful.

I don't like this nor do I hate it. But it's painfully obvious that Narita has powercrept a great deal with Strange Fake.

It wouldn't make any sense for Heracles to not be summoned with at least one of the many weapons and tools he had in life though. I mean, by your logic, Heracles could never have access to the pelt unless he's an Avenger.

What was the explanation for that (why can Caliburn wipe out 7 lives in one shot, while most other NPs can only take one life at a time)?

I don't see a pelt

Attached: archerherc.png (483x409, 244K)

Christ, you're such a crybaby. He got retconned, crept, thrown away for the new. Just deal with it away from my sight, now.

every nigga is getting powercreeped except angry manjew since he's the shittiest

Name a single OG servant who hasn't been powercrept by someone in their class.

Something something miracle of a sword that should be gone being reunited with its owner enhances its power.

>hurr durr crybaby retcon
Richard is literally confirmed slower than Enkidu in the LN. Achilles' speed stat doesn't account for his NP since it has to be activated outside the chariot. You'd know that if you bothered reading the LNs instead of shitposting

It's more a strength of master/strength of terrain thing. He's already such an overbearing hero that getting more than two NPs (defaulting to God Hand and Nine Lives) is going to obliterate any Master below Illyasviel tier, and that's the highest tier there is. Summoning him in Greece would have much better results, Apocrypha already told us that summoning Heracles basically instantly won any grecian grail wars.
Bazdilot cheated and has enormous stockpiles of magical energy so he can supply someone who should have instantly drained him to a bleeding pile of gore.

Isn't that last line Issei?

No. Nasu made sure she got her own buffs to be better than male Arthur and to top it off, she beats both Gilgamesh and Iskandar togerher in Extella

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Well Sasaki is still the most skilled swordsman, only Musashi can give him a run for his money

>Altria
why

I don't see much of anything really.

Isn't there also a good chance that she's Grand Saber? Plus Extella really wanked Excalibur as the best beamsword, the same game that has Charlemagne fire 13 swordbeams at once

>Richard is literally confirmed slower than Enkidu in the LN.
Nice lie, considering the story says that their speed is equal when Enkidu modifies his speed to A+ to match Richard's magecraft boosted speed. This being before Richard even uses his "God's Speed" skill.
>Achilles' speed stat doesn't account for his NP since it has to be activated outside the chariot.
Hard Cope. If that were the case, he'd have a notation in his profile, just like Richard, indicating that his speed would be EX -- thus immeasurable -- under certain circumstances. Alas, he has only a measly A+. Equal to Enkidu btw. Which makes sense. Your pathetic attempts to dodge the inferiority of Achilles's profile are transparent.
>You'd know that if you bothered reading the LNs instead of shitposting
Can you cry somewhere else now?

>Isn't there also a good chance that she's Grand Saber?
So far the one sent to hunt down Beasts has been King Arthur, not her. And Beast hunting is kind of the job of grands

Attached: Excalibur kills Sefar.png (1366x768, 1.74M)

Full inventory Avalaon/Excalibur/Caliburn grand saber plz

Man this thread must make no sense to anyone who just like casually watches the anime

wasn't it datamined that Saber's VA is voicing Grand Saber?

>Can you cry somewhere else now?
So you admit you didn't read Apocrypha nor SF. Richard's EX is specifically pointed in his profile to be BECAUSE his AGI fluctuates, not because it's off the charts and it also notes it caps at A++. Furthermore, AGI stat isn't speed per se, as confirmed in multiple occasions in FSN itself. Achilles speed is A+ without accounting his NP as pointed in Apocrypha as it makes him cross any distance he wants in an instant.
So, read the LN and the VN, shitposter

Yeah, UBW is the worst route.

It's like nobody pays attention to Gil specifically saying "In this moment, you are strong"

>Shirou goes through a lot of shit constantly both physically and mentally in every route, through every bad end and the story does a lot to justify these moments (in the VN) of him gaining power.
You're forgetting Shirou already had his power due to having Avalon placed in him and having the circuits necessary for his particular brand of magecraft, he just had to learn how to use it from Rin and Archer. His struggles were just him using it wrong until he finally gets it right. Sieg, likewise, has the same issue in that Siegfried's power being given to him via his magic circuits binding with the Servants core gave him the hero's abilities and Sieg has to learn how to learn to use them in the midst of battle as well as fight for hours against Fafnir on his own which tempers his ability to use that power correctly.
They also both go through a fuckton physically and mentally, though Shirou has the benefit of having three different routes with various struggles peppered throughout, Sieg has one definitive storyline he follows so it feels like less because well, it is.
>Also Sieg is straight up blank slate, not just in character but in actual story execution which is boring compared to ally-of-justiceman who we actually get inside his head
This is an animeonly problem because we actually do get inside Sieg's head in the LN and he grows from simplistic and blank to a more nuanced yet innocent perspective and while not ally-of-justiceman tier like Shirou he develops his own sort of self-worth autism in trying to basically be another Siegfried until Jeanne, Laeticia, and Karna(literally) slaps the shit out of him. In volume 5, Karna goes on a ten page long monologue regarding his regrets and breaks Sieg out of his 'i have to die for something to be worth anything' mindset and he realizes what he wants of himself for himself.

Attached: DkZrEUiVAAEvCFua.png (700x384, 344K)

Because it's retarded? Why would Gil suck his dick at that moment?

We are talking about Mr. ''I will step into a landmine as a king'' here. He finds a way to job

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Is Gil special needs?

I worded it incorrectly, user. Sorry I mean I don't know who made Fate Orion. I know who he is.

More of my boy when?

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Yes. His pure, inner Zero Model self that operates in instinct STILL has too much pride to go all-out when needed. By this point there is no cure for that

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Galahad was turtored by Solomon beyond the grave in his fucking legend, and given broken tools.

He's not sucking his dick, he's saying "you only beat me because of this particular circumstance that we find ourselves in"

> Richard's EX is specifically pointed in his profile to be BECAUSE his AGI fluctuates, not because it's off the charts and it also notes it caps at A++
Okay, let's say, for the sake of argument, that his EX means exactly that. A++ is the fastest agility stat of any Servant, and faster than Achilles's. Beast, LBK or otherwise.

> Achilles speed is A+ without accounting his NP as pointed in Apocrypha as it makes him cross any distance he wants in an instant.
So where is his EX notation and the designation of his fully unleashed speed, if his speed fluctuates, as does Richard's? Are you saying his profile is just incomplete? Why doesn't he have a notation for A++, A+++ or EX in his profile to designate this?

You are just arguing from pure belief here. Why should I believe you when you have no credible evidence? All you have is a narration on him being mythologized as the fastest hero; one that is easily reproduced in Narita's own narrative. When Richard has higher stats, equal narrative weight and outright better feats, what should any sane person conclude here, huh?

> Furthermore, AGI stat isn't speed per se, as confirmed in multiple occasions in FSN itself
The flavour of their speeds is the exact same. Up to you to tell us how Richard's speed surpasses Achilles in one aspect but not another.

Also
>Nice lie, considering the story says that their speed is equal when Enkidu modifies his speed to A+ to match Richard's magecraft boosted speed. This being before Richard even uses his "God's Speed" skill.
Ever plan on responding to me catching you in an outright lie?
>Hard Cope. If that were the case, he'd have a notation in his profile, just like Richard, indicating that his speed would be EX -- thus immeasurable -- under certain circumstances. Alas, he has only a measly A+. Equal to Enkidu btw. Which makes sense. Your pathetic attempts to dodge the inferiority of Achilles's profile are transparent.
Or the other points?

>, he just had to learn how to use it from Rin and Archer
And that's a big difference. He has to learn how to use them, especially without kiling himself

Arthur never shoot EXcalibur at full power either, so what are you saying? his feats are ten thousand better too. This weak shit gets her ass handed by a buffed teacher, while he fight off a larva baby Beast with one arm and disappearing because he slain his crazy Master, firing two consecutive excaliblasts.

It's a very VERY old datamine which also listed Suwabe voicing Assassin Emiya and was a lie, another stuff with wrong designers for Servants as well.

Arthur has outright better stats though.

Sounds like you're putting words in his mouth.

>Kills a Demigod by just spamming NPs
yeah nice fucking movie you got there kid

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What's his gimmick? Seems like he's a shitter

I'd say he was sucking his dick if he had said "you are genuinely powerful" or something along the lines of that

>So far the one sent to hunt down Beasts has been King Arthur, not her. And Beast hunting is kind of the job of grands
No, Grands are summoned once the Beasts have gone active and begun rampaging and ending the world. Arthur is just trying to settle a score with Beast VI. Assuming Arthur is Grand Saber from just that is crazy.
Besides Archimedes said it was her sword that destroyed Sefar.

Merlin specifically says he's 'fated' to defeat that Beast.

>Okay, let's say, for the sake of argument, that his EX means exactly that. A++ is the fastest agility stat of any Servant, and faster than Achilles's. Beast, LBK or otherwise.
>So where is his EX notation and the designation of his fully unleashed speed
Except multiple servants have a base speed that is still up to increase
Lancelot is A+, Arondight boosting it further
Yan Qing at NPing causes him to hit 108 times without his shadow moving from the ground
Vlad's parameters with LoD increase during the night making him fast enough to keep up with 6 servants.
A++ isn't being the fastest and never was. None of these guys above have ''EX'' AGI listed, they still are above A++ speed when they want
>The flavour of their speeds is the exact same.
No, it never has been. Medusa, Cu Chulain and Hassan have A AGI, but each of them specifically have different reasons per Nasu and the VN, Cu Chulain for example is slower than Medusa at first, but his speed keeps increasing in combat.
Likewise, Proto-Cu has a higher AGI stat than normal Cu, but his profile specifically notes he is NOT faster, rather being more hot-headed.
Diarmuid as well, has a high AGI stat not because of speed, but because he has dexterity to perfectly wield two spears at once
>when Enkidu modifies his speed to A+
This as well, has never been adressed in the LN.

Better Strength and Endurance, worse Magical Energy and Luck.
Comparing the Excaliburs directly is something Nasu doesn't want you to do so don't run away with that.

>Ryougi
>No real struggle

Pretty sure having to deal with split personalities is a struggle.

And that's cool, but that's not what Grands are. Grands are the absolute final line of defense, for when a Beast truly gets out of control, like Primate Murder being activated to sterilize the world of humans or if Kiara had completed her descent to the planet's core and begun liquifying humanity throughout time. It's not a one-Grand-fights-one-Beast type matchup, no matter what the fanon seems to think.

Problem with Gil is he need a fully functioning Karna-tier enemy from the get go to stop being retarded.

Would Gil stop being retarded if he was there in pajeet lost belt?

Saber:
>Strength: B
>Endurance: B
>Agility: B
>Mana: A
>Luck: A+
>Noble Phantasm: A++

>Spell Resistance A
>Riding B

>Charisma B
>Mana Burst A
>Instinct A > Radiant Road EX

>Noble Phantasm: Excalibur - The Sword of Promised Victory A+ > A++

Proto Saber:
>Strength: A
>Endurance: A+
>Agility: B
>Mana" B
>Luck: B
>Noble Phantasm: EX

>Spell Resistance A
>Riding B

>Instinct A
>Mana Burst A
>Charisma B
>Great Beast Hunter A

>Noble Phantasm: Excalibur - The Sword of Promised Victory EX

And those stats are under F/GO's master. Under Rin (described as her "true power"), Artoria's STR goes up to A.

Well, her stats kinda shift depending on who she's under. Under Kiritsugu, her Agility was boosted to A.

King Under the Mountain would easily kick Gil's ass.

In the Epic, it was where he learned the feeling of humility.

King Under the Mountain was the Great Flood Hero by the way, who was born thousands of years ago before Gil was born as the 5th King of Uruk using the Sumerian Timeline.

>Rin says in the VN that in a “regular” HGW Cu would roflstomp every time
>It’s never a “regular” HGW
E Luck so strong it warps reality

Aren’t Herc’s stats as a Zerker higher than Alcides? Also God Hand is busted and most Servants wouldn’t have a way to break through it at all.

Fate is basically shounen for brainlets and cumbrains. Anyone who isn't a mouthbreather reads HxH instead.

The reason Gilgamesh is "Mankind's Oldest King of Heroes" is due to the status of the Epic of Gilgamesh. While the Hero of the Flood predates him chronologically, the first known mention of that flood and its hero was still in the Epic of Gilgamesh. There are plenty of heroes who are "older" than Gilgamesh, but because his Epic is the first known epic in human history, that paradox is what gets him crowned the King of Heroes.

Good old days

It will never be regular because there will always be someone cheating

Yup

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Didn't play Extella but is Altera stronger than Gil?

Her alien form is stronger.

Not exactly. She starts losing when Gil whips out poisoned weaponry, but when Hakuno clears her debuffs she ends up winning. Gil was holding back (as always) but in her case he wanted to force her to bring out the White Titan that nuked the gods.

In spite of that, though, Gilgamesh is still stronger than most heroes. The first reason is, naturally, his treasury. If a Heroic Spirit's power is dictated by the Noble Phantasms in his possession, then Gilgamesh would be the strongest by default due to his bottomless vault. This was the original core reason why he was called the strongest and why it was said that no Servant could oppose him.

The second reason was because of what he is. He was created by the gods in order to reign in humanity, but Gilgamesh turned against the very gods who created him. He was the final nail in the coffin for the Age of the Gods, and one of the human lynchpins of the Human Order. Just as King Solomon's death marked the beginning of the Age of Man, King Gilgamesh's death marked the end of the Age of the Gods.

No.

>ALL it took to beat Gil was someone who could stop his sword spam
>when he took out his trump card Ea, ALL it took to stop it was to chop Gil's arm off
So we're supposed to believe that out of the countless Servants out there, who are practically demigods, none of them could manage to dodge/counter sword spam, which is undoubtedly slower than fucking bullets, and chop gil's arm off as soon as he tried to take out Ea? Fucking SHIROU was the first one who ever managed this? ahahahahaha nasushit is worse than fairy tail

I'm just saying when Gil was alive, he really did meet the King Under the Mountain and he didn't try to steal or force the guy to pass on the secret of immortality. In the Epic, Gil was humbled by the guy's presence. He didn't try to do anything like say let's have a wrestling content and you give me what I want.

Kinda sad that the Epic Of Gilgamesh will probably be the oldest Epic we will ever find

Do you mean Utnapishtim? He's not "strong" in Fate, though he is endlessly wise. He humiliated Gilgamesh by telling him to stay awake for seven days and nights to receive his wisdom, and Gil fell asleep in like a minute.

Well, that's fair. But the Hero of the Flood can't be summoned as a Heroic Spirit anyway, so it'll never really be relevant.

i hope there's some bullshit where Noah becomes the representative for every flood myth and his ark his basically just GoB but with animals and mythical creatures

Yes. It has been accepted and an actual strategy through Post-SN to beat Gil as fast as possible because he always starts holding back, but as he gets serious, there isn't much room for what you can do.
Liz for example in CCC defeats the Zero Model exactly because of that as Gil points out by nature he will never go all-out from the start. Even in FSN, with Gil's defeats at the hands of Saber and/or Shirou, both cases have them know that the moment he recomposes from his surprise, they would lose the battle

Additionally, King Arthur played a similar role in that her death marked the end of the Age of Fairies, the last bastion of the long past Age of Gods.

his Bible version aka Noah is more well known. Noah will probably be Grand Rider

Going by the original Arthurian lore, Galahad is literally playing life on easy mode because he’s God’s favorite. He gets every blessing and artifact and everything handed directly to him on the quest for the Holy Grail and then fucks off to heaven at the end.

Pretty much. Saber pretty much just gave him Lord Camelot.

no her death marked the end of the Age of Gods, we have no idea when the Age of Fairies even was or what in entailed. Age of Gods ended at different points for different regions on Earth, it ended really late for Camelot

Galahad has a sword stronger than Excalibur, at least in irl lore

Gareth also says that although Galahad is the one that obtained the grail, the only other able to that would be Percival, indicating that both of them are around the same tier.

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Not here, though. Excalibur is the de facto strongest holy sword.

Galahad Alter has two swords as Saber, but there isn't much known about their powers.
The first one is explicitly the Sword of David, the second then should be the Red-Hilted one

strongest sword in general, Ea isn't a sword so its technically true

We still don’t really know anything about actual Archer Herc’s parameters though right? Aside from God Hand, Nine Lives, and his personal skills that are consistent across Alcides and Zerker, the big man is a blank slate. In theory he should be far stronger than either form though, since Archer Heracles represents his status as the paragon of Greek heroes.

I think he’s just having fun writing Fate powerwank with absolutely zero limits on what he can and can’t do

why is Nasu holding back on us with bibilical figures? I just want Noah to fuck shit up with his ark and for Moses to punch holes in the red sea

Every servant in Strange Fake is busted, this dude wants to see how far he can take it

Well SUPPOSEDLY, Gram is supposed to be on the same tier as it as the strongest demonic sword but then Sigurd was released and its stats don't fucking reflect that at all.

Why would he not? Heracles is almost always depicted as wearing the Nemean Lion pelt in any artistic depiction of him. Its as central to the mythod as his mysteriously absent club

Excalibur has the oaths restaining it as well, even Arthuria's. It can be the strongest when she needs to save the world, there is no guarantee it will display all that power in other occasions.
Also, it's the strongest ''Holy'' sword. It's pointed in FSN that Gram is the strongest Demonic Sword and equal to it. Altera as well has a sword super strong that isn't holy nor demonic, as the Sword of Mars is a proto-Divine Construct made before both Excalibur and Gram

If that were truly the case, he wouldn't have been all "B-but Nasu-kun, giving Enkidu all As would make him too strong!"

Redpill me on Strange Fake servants, most seem like a mess

the fucker punches his sword and it doesn't even look that fucking strong wtf Nasu this shit is weak. Maybe Sigurd is holding back or being a retard and not using the sword properly

In real life, the Death of the Greek God Pan is what Christians and Pagans believed to be the ending of the Age of Gods.

You can look this up, yourself.

However, once you get to Eastern religions, I feel like even Nasu can't really explain questions concerning Hinduism, Buddhism, etc

Most religions from the west had an ending, not so for Eastern religions.

Like Nasu said the end of the Age of Gods is over but that conflicts with Shintoism which is a religion that allows for the creation of new gods. New kami can be born according to Shintoism.

So yeah, I feel like Nasu doesn't deal well with Eastern religions compared to Western religions.

We don't know much of Gram at all. Excalibur was A, but then Artoria's interlude has her release one oath and it's ramped to A++. Gram is a demonic sword prophecised to bring ruin even to Sigurd himself, it can be that it has seals, can be that he actively put locks in it, can be anything. In Gotterdamerung we see it first-hand that the red Gram is double sealed by default and only after Ophelia authorizes that the power starts being unleashed

Shinto is a whole different ball game. He does some pretty crazy bullshit with it, like incorporating the interpretation that Amaterasu is also Vairocana. Chew on that for a sec.

The strongest sword hasn't been made yet because Muramasa died without fulfuilling his dream of creating a sword that can cut God, the Devil, anything, and everything, including concepts like Fate and Destiny.

Muramasa literally wanted to create a sword that can everything and anything it wants, no matter the opponent or concept.

He died before he got a chance to create his dream sword.

In Gotterdamerun we now know each country was basically a contained ''bubble'' with their religions and pantheons and each and that although these Age of Gods can end, they still have remnants that last long after it.
For example, while the Age of Gods started ending for good with Jesus' birth, those things still roamed around each country and Artoria ended the AoG of Britain herself.

Regarding to Shintoism, we know that if a person gets worshipped really hard, they start getting Divinity and can reach godhood. George and Martha have C Divnity, while Iskandar reaches godhood eventually

Sigurd has Gram after it was shattered and reforged, it would need to be Sigmund wielding the original true form of Gram.
Though the myth was supposed to be the sword became stronger than ever, we all know in Type-Moon that things just naturally get worse the further they get from the origin, and anything you break can never be repaired better than it was.

I can’t read moon so I’ve just been reading the manga chapters as they (infrequently) come out, but from what I know:

>Gil
>Enkidu
>The non-divine half of Heracles, maxed out on bullshit-tier NPs
>Rider is literally a personification of the Black Death
>Alexander Dumas is there for some reason, he’s a total pimp
>Hippolyta, Queen of the Amazons and Penth’s older sister
>Richard the Lionheart, Arturia fanboy that turns sticks into Excalibur
>A disgraced Hassan that can use ALL FORMS OF ZABANIYA because lol idk
>Ishar is there somehow
Thats not even the end of it but thats all i know

No, there definitely are some who counter his sword spam pretty easily unless he gets serious. Shirou was able to beat him because Gilgamesh was trying to match him in a sword throwing contest when Gilgamesh has much more he could be using. Look at his kill count in the VN and tell me how well sword spam worked out for him.
>Medea, one of the slowest and physically weakest of that war
>almost escapes anyway
>Cu Chulainn
>took Gil 12 whole hours to beat him
>way he did it is unknown, but he was injured
>Hercules
>sword spam almost fails and he has to tie him up with Enkidu to make sure he can finish the job
>Archer
>doesn't kill him and he comes back to finish him off
>Sakura
>doesn't kill her and she devours him before he can do anything about it
>Saber
>has to use Ea against her and is only able to bully her a little bit with his Gate while Shirou is her master
>Shirou
>sword spam utterly fails in UBW
>just plays around with him by actually sort of using weapons
Sword spam almost never works out for him because real heroes with martial prowess absolutely can counter, avoid, or survive it. And no, his swords are made out to be faster than bullets. Most only see a flash of light and then they're either dead or avoided it thanks to superhuman sense. Servants are just faster than bullets. Shirou was the first one to do that to him because Gil never actually kept trying to just sword spam people when it failed initially. Shirou is the only one who he decided to just mindlessly keep throwing only bladed weapons at.

Nasu said Cu have faster attack speed and burst speed, but Medusa have higher average speed.

Ishtar isn't even supposed to be there but body snatching is a thing

Medusa's better at long-distance running while Cu Chulainn is better at the 30-yeard dash.

Dumas saves the whole story ngl

>A disgraced Hassan that can use ALL FORMS OF ZABANIYA because lol idk
Worth noting that not all of them are exactly like how they really should be because she created imitations using the known information about them. Despite this, she's a worse assassin than her predecessors because she forgoes trickery and stealth for the most part and tries to engage people in head to head combat, which is a terrible idea since nearly every other servant in the war (and in most wars depicted) are stronger than her. She's reckless because she has an approximation of each Zabaniya and is a zealot who never managed to become a real Hassan. She suffers from trying to do everything rather than developing her own gift and focusing on actual assassination and subterfuge.

and yet King Hassan carries around a big ass sword and shield

In addition to these, there are
>a weird mechanical Humbaba monster that was thought to be Edison
>Prelati who summoned herself (formerly himself) as a servant
>Jack the Ripper as a shapeshifter
>a Hassan who is so stealthy that his presence cannot be felt even when he's using your hand to write with it

You can do whatever you want when you can just inflict death on people because God told you to.

Alexander Dumas can forge Noble Phantasms and "rewrite" them to be stronger. The police are armed with these new Noble Phantasms in hopes of taking down Gil.
Francois Prelati is a master at illusion magecraft and can somehow cheat death. His mats state that his talent as a mage is at a level recognized to be on par with elemental spirits which I don't know if that's good or not though.

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It'd probably be like A++ if he used it as a normal beam. But when do you actually need an A++ Anti-Fortress noble phantasm when you could save on a lot of magic energy and just punch it at as a A+ anti-fortress beam instead?

They keep adding people that "marked the end of the age of gods/mystery" over and over again,
I think the latest one is richard.

King Hassan is completely different from the rest. None of them could even hope to compare to him in a fight. Even if every single Hassan tried to take him down with whatever means necessary, none of them would even scratch him.

Even then he also actually still tries to sneak around and assassinate people. He tried it on Ozy, even if Ozy survived since he doesn't die in his temple.

Richard's just bullshit that Narita made up. I doubt Nasu will ever acknowledge it.

probably because it ends in different regions of the world, Richard had a foot in both the AoG and AoM for some reason

It doesn't help that his presence concealment is actually pretty low. It's just that it doesn't matter if you can see him coming.

According to his materials, KH’s preferred method of assassination was “Kill them all and let God sort them out.” Can’t be caught if there are no witnesses left to tell about you

pretty sure that was the point, it was a warning and to show that he could kill him if he wanted

Most of the servants in Strange Fake are partially or fully designed by Nasu. He likely had some hand in Richard's creation as well all things considered. The idea of making Enkidu what he is came from Nasu and he initially thought Nasu was going too crazy with power.

>it was gilgamesh!
>actually it was nero
>lol no it was saber
>oh wait it was really richard

his presence concealment is also cursed in that his presence is known to his target but that could be beneficial to him

Richard and Saladin are not age of gods heroes. They are just heroes who "echo" the age of gods. Richard is basically somebody imitating Artoria so well he can almost do what she does. He is still not on the level of the real deal.

>really low
He had Presence Concealment rank A user, the problem is he has a curse or something that forcibly reveals him the second he goes for the kill

Alcides is definitely a Nasu oversight. Narita said something like Nasu wouldn't let him have Archer Herc or that only Nasu could do him justice

What if the other assassins learned martial arts from Chinese Assassin?

Would they be able to kill King Hassan?

Zealot's only personal skill is Zealotry too and we know firsthand that she sucks at infiltration and in spite of her 18 Zabaniyas, most she could match in combat so far has been Clan Calatin, even then Jester saying she'd have 50% chance of winning

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It really depends on which King Hassan we're talking about. After he surrendered his Grand container striking down Tiamat he's actually not that special. Still has that "kills anybody if the bells are ringing" factor but he's no longer "twist Gawain's head off with one hand" tier.

Presence Concealment doesn't actually make you invisible. It just conceals your magic energy so people don't detect you via magic. Actual sneaking around is a unwritten skill.

The biggest problem about F/SF that causes the big powerlevel wankery and arguments is that Narita builds up a lot of empty hype. Things are made to look a lot more impressive than they actually are a lot of the time while mixed in with things that are actually pretty impressive.

Oh shit True Archer can beat Gilgamesh and is telling him to whip out Ea, he must be extremely strong. Proceeds to be ground to a slowly losing battle against a Gilgamesh that takes him seriously later on without Ea, only winning and surviving because of Ishtar Ex Machina.

This Assassin has all the Zabaniyas and was so amazing and spooky that the other assassins didn't want her to be Hassan... except the assassins were right because she's a retard who thinks she's an ungabeast instead of an assassin who doesn't realize that a couple of kill-move gimmicks don't let her stand up to actual combat servants in a fight. Also her copied Zabaniyas are sometimes made up bullshit or way shittier than the real stuff too.

So on.

he has the stats and technique of a Saber mixed in with being an Assassin and hard to kill, he's a top tier servant

Richard is post-Artoria, so he comes after the Britain AoG ended. He still managed to find the Avalon sheath somehow.
The people that seem to match those ends so far are monster-slayers. It's like how Greece became a peaceful place because they had Herk go around genociding all monsters he could find.
In Britain, the hunter was King Arthur, in Japan it was the combined efforts of Raikou and others, among the geats it was Beowulf etc.

If King Hassan is a super religious dude why does he acknowledge Tiamat as the primordial mother?

He's alright but he lacks heavy punch or means to counteract heavy punches. Anybody swinging an anti fortress NP at him will ruin his day.

As far as we know, Li Shuwen managed to knock unsconscious the heavily-implied Beast Tamamovitch in spite of her having the 1.000 tons Saint Graph that Nine-Tailed Tamamo had, so yeah. They should have a shot if he isn't Grand anymore

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It's funny that she stands on the opposite of Cursed Arm. A talentless unremarkable head that's extremely competent, knows what he is and works with what he has as an assassin and baiter to take down a bunch of enemies with the Shadow. He'll always be way more useful than her because he does his job.

Zealot meanwhile is a super talented, has all the abilities, master who dumped the shit out of her WIS and decides to act like an Eversor Assassin from 40k. Also the fact that she tries to kill her master and decides that she'll find the Holy Grail despite the fact that without a master she'll disappear in an hour tops, and somehow? try to destroy it? She's retarded.

Based CA

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Religion doesn't let you counter the facts, user. All it means is he believes Tiamat was Allah's tool to create life.

All great Assassins need to be extremely competent. Cursed Arm he took advantage of his surroundings, bolts it when its unwinnable, is extremely professional and loyal to his master even when they're scum of the earth like Zouken and doesn't waste time to rip someone's heart out, Zealot is retarded, but what do you expect from someone called Zealot?

KH is a pretty old fashioned dude. You always gotta greet your mom.

Probably not. He has SHIKI levels of bullshit and is similarly able to “kill” abstract concepts. Also he may or may not be the Islamic Angel of Death

A big problem with Strange Fake otherwise is that it just feels like a watered down Fate/Reference thing. So many things are aped from other Fate works and stuff Nasu made. So many things are shallow pale imitations. Not just powers but also story beats. It's trying to fanboy or reference so hard it ends up showing it doesn't really have much going on. It's more like an excuse plot to shove in as many references and look how many Type Moon things I can talk about hahaha isn't it cool?

Then again if you start as a joke I guess you end up a joke.

Nothing he has actually comes near to that. Nothing in his profile or materials profile mention anything to that effect. Nor does he do anything like that in story.
The closest thing he's done to that is burn up his Grand Power for a special attack that's a bigger version of Ozymandias ramming his pyramid and burning his own saint graph up to win the clash in Camelot. Which is very far from a normal ability of his.

He severed Ereshkigal's contract with the Three Goddess Alliance.

A hero that is long overdue his servant appearance.
>has his own epic with a long adventure visiting various fantastical locations
>ended the Trojan War
>can cashcow him by making both his younger version from the Trojan war and his wise form after coming home
He's seriously the most relevant Trojan war hero after Achilles and Hector, I don't get it.

these digits

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they like saving big names so they can keep the money train going, thats why we still haven't gotten Muramasa yet

>The hero whose epic is really just an endless string of fuckups

That applies to 90% greek heroes.

I love Seki Tomokazu. Glad he's the VA of Gilgamesh.

Sounds like most heroes in Fate, always even twisting the good shit to be pity parties.

Odysseus is special in that, in the end, he achieved absolutely nothing. For all his hubris, he lost far, far more than he gained and the only thing he obtained at the end of his journey is his own survival. He fucked himself over on his own and spent years just digging himself back out, stepping over the corpses of his comrades one by one before he finally managed to break out. He didn't deserve to live but he alone survived.

>Still has that "kills anybody if the bells are ringing" factor but he's no longer "twist Gawain's head off with one hand" tier.
He fucks up the Lahmus that are made of Tiamat's body AFTER he tanks his SG.

Allah/Yahweh/whatever you call him is an existence outside the Root if it's the same one Aoko means in Mahoyo and Kingu hints that "that God is different" when he speaks of deities overall.

Don't know if Nasu retconned but the earliest description of GOD by Nasu had Nasu writing that if you ever got to meet GOD, he would just tell you to leave him alone and don't bother him in one single sentence.

God isn't just another divine spirit in Fate like other gods?

Krishna could also be a plausible Grand Rider candidate, shame he wasn't around in the curry Lostbelt.

I mean if Karna and Arjuna aren't Grands...

So every assassin failed against Genghis Khan when he was still alive.

Does this mean King Hassan would fail assassinating Genghis Khan if they encountered each other?