She is Totally OP

Stop posting.

>And once upon a time they said servants normally only had one noble phantasm
That was speculation by a character, God Hand's feature is specified in its description.

>same topic again
He used Excalibur once. 7 deaths
She used different methods to kill him. Watch more closely.

>She used different methods to kill him.
Such as?

>That was speculation by a character, God Hand's feature is specified in its description.
Yes, but my point was they established God Hand in such a way that no enemy in the grail war could feasibly overcome it, aside from Gil and maybe the redman. I'm saying it was destined to be beaten by asspulls because it was made to be absurdly overpowered from the start. You can claim the fact Saber is killing him is bad writing, but God Hand was the shit writing in the first place.

>God Hand was the shit writing in the first place
Not really, it's a very straightforward rule that was easily overwhelmed by Gil without breaking it. Archer could probably have done the same with UBW under more favorable circumstances.
And this isn't a question of bad or good writing, it's about being having cohesive content and consistency. Again, breaking the rules is one thing, but if its not going to held up at all then why should anyone care?

>1
She cut him in half
>2
Vortigern
>3
Burned

And those would all be above B Rank attacks because?

What's the source of mana for corrupted servants anyway? Angry manjew gives them infinite mana?

Go back to watching DBZ spic

Because you should read VN. Yes Saber's sword can cut through God Hand. Rin was able to use her best jewels and burn one live from him too.

>Because you should read VN.
A decade ago. Sue me.
>Yes Saber's sword can cut through God Hand.
Gae Bolg, the actual NP, requires boosting from Cu's runes to kill Herc even once.
>Rin was able to use her best jewels and burn one live from him too.
Those were all A Rank spells comparable to Medea's and she needed four of them combined for it to work.

ESL phoneposters please stop

She has A straight user

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The shit about Ranks was thrown out the window for the anime adaptations anyway. Saber killed him once with Invisible Air in UBW.

And it was always really fucking stupid anyway, so no loss.

I wrote a song for Saber. I hope she likes it.

She calls me baby, then she won't call me
Says she adores me and then ignores me
Saber, what's the problem?
She keeps her distance and sits on fences
Puts up resistance and builds defenses
Saber, what's the problem?
You leave me hanging on the line
Every time you change your mind
First, you say you won't, then you say you will
You keep me hanging on, and we're not moving on
I'm standing still, Saber
You got me on my knees, Saber
It's killing me
She needs her own space
She's playing mind games
Ends up at my place saying that she's changed
Saber, what's the problem?
I'm trying to read between the lines
You got me going out of my mind
First, you say you won't, then you say you will
You keep me hanging on, and we're not moving on
I'm standing still, Saber
You got me on my knees
Saber, it's killing me
It's killing me
It's killing me, Saber
First, you say you won't, then you say you will
You keep me hanging on, and I'm not moving on
We're standing still, Saber
You got me on my knees, Saber
First, you say you won't, then you say you will
You keep me hanging on, and we're not moving on
We're standing still, Saber
You got me on my knees, Saber
And it's killing me
It's killing me, Saber

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That's not how Ranks work in terms of God Hand, though. It's Mystery ranking. Bamboozling though it is that Nasu uses these ranking systems for multiple different things, kind of dick move really.

>Saber killed him once with Invisible Air in UBW.
Yeah, that was stupid too.
>And it was always really fucking stupid anyway, so no loss.
Again, that isn't really the issue, consistency isn't much to ask for.

grailjuice supercharge

God hand is shit and heracles is a retard
True archer on the other hand would shit all over fubuki HGW

>God hand is shit
It's not, it's just that Nasu is a fucking Toriyama-tier forgetful asshole.
>Q: With Berserker's Noble Phantasm God Hand, you gain resistance to an attack once you're hit by it, but do you only gain this resistance by having died once? Would the same attack be effective multiple times as long as it was before he died?

>Nasu: You don't have to die. For example... if you were to take fire damage, once you recover you would gain +100 resistance to fire.
>Takeuchi: Oh, feels like it has been toned-down. Wouldn't it have completely nullified it before?
>Nasu: I said it won't work, but I don't think I've ever said it'll be negated. BB: "Mine is to nullify all attacks, Macho-san's is to triple his defense! What's the difference!?" Heracles: "It's not even close (to your hacked ability)!"
>Takeuchi: No matter how you put it, it's an overpowered skill.

>I don't think I've ever said it'll be negated.
vs:
>Resurrection as well as attack-nullification. Besides these two effects, God Hand also possesses a third effect: rendering an attack that it has experienced before useless. Regardless how powerful is the Noble Phantasm that defeated Heracles, it would be completely nullified after he resurrects.

if not for butcher this pathetic excuse for a writer would never be successful
he should be thankful and give butcher more credit

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That's make it good for only one kill, not half a dozen.

Nah, Fate was plenty successful before F/Z and you can't pin the fucking goldmine that is FGO on butcher either.
I don't like butcher's edgy writing and questionable use of characters, but at least his memory seems to mostly work properly and he doesn't retcon everything left right and center.

>That's not how Ranks work in terms of God Hand
What? This is how ranks works. Strength = rank of your NORMAL attacks.

>if not for butcher this pathetic excuse for a writer would never be successful
pure bait

>mana burst spam win heracles vs
>deep thoughts about what what diarmuid can do

>bait
typical nasufag you probably frequent dragon ball threads

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The anime is a different beast from the VN, and God Hand's rules changing is the least of the differences between the two.

That's the nature of adaptations, dude.

Only one of those attacks is based on her strength stat.
>What? This is how ranks works. Strength = rank of your NORMAL attacks.
Yes and no. Normal attack ranking and NP attack ranking are tiered differently for some utterly bizarre reason.
>although a C-rank Noble Phantasm can be considered A or A+ rank in terms of a regular attack, it would still be nullified by God Hand

Good song! 10/10

untalented edgy hack

None of his best works were his ideas besides saya no uta which everyone forgot about more than a decade ago

Please stop. Read fucking VN
Just stop. You can't even use wiki properly.

>tfw i've only ever watched fate stay night from 2006
>literally no idea what the fuck everyone in this thread is talking about
sugoi

>he doesn't retcon everything left right and center.

I mean, Fate has always been based on beating the unstoppable force against the immovable object and then coming up with an excuse for why one of them wins.

>read the vn in 2006
>everyone call it shit
>discussions are banned from Yea Forums leading to the creation of /jp/
>Yea Forums spirals into a putrid mesh of general threads and shounen shit
Fuck you.

Not gonna lie, I don't think Nasu is a good writer either. But of the two, I find Nasu's approach to human interaction and scenarios more engaging than Butcher's even though Butcher's overall narrative is probably better. Nasu's actual narrative is very amateurish but his approach to how events unfurl and how the characters are involved with each other and their circumstances is probably the most compelling thing about his writing. Everyone talks about his lore and worldbuilding and I do think that its one of his strong points, I feel that the recent works demonstrate that's not really what was really special about his work. He can put out all the additional lore in the world (and he fucking has and then some), but without the more grounded sensibilities of his characters' interactions its all just set dressing without the payoff.
Butcher's approach to these things is also unique and I can understand why people might enjoy it so much, but it's just not as compelling as Nasu's for me.

dont worry, they dont either.

/jp/ and /m/ are the superior boards, Yea Forums is a trash can.

Again, I haven't read it since fucking 2008, my memory isn't perfect.
The divisive rank system IS something that's mentioned in the VN and its very jarring and inconsistent, like how magecraft ranks and NP ranks don't necessarily commute (and often don't).

Cool story bro but VN was translated only in 2008 and this was big thing in Yea Forums and /jp/

>I've lived under a rock animewise for 10 years

the only compelling thing nasu ever did was KnK while tsukihime is overwanked harem shit
I can't fucking bring myself to finish any of the routes in the fucking VN again, I did it in the past but now again? Fuck no the writing turns me off. For instance the pacing deadly dull, we get a focus of shirou fucking cooking and talking about pointless subjects for about a few hours in any route, then nasu shows that he has no idea what to do and drops a plot device to keep the reader entranced while referencing nothing it goes on and on until it finally ends

and probably missed little of value

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Yes, there's writing in anomolous things that break the established rules, but at least they acknowledge that the rules exist to be broken in the first place. Stuff like is straight up going back on what he very clearly said.

I mean, the KnK anime and Carnival Phantasm were good. Maybe Mahoyo and DDD if they ever got fucking translated.
That's about it though.

To be fair: What was previously said was kinda fucking stupid, since it's nearly impossible to write around. I don't think it's really a bad thing to retcon bad decisions.

VN has around 3 artbooks with deep explanation of lore. And if you forgot Saber is not just blacked. She has unlimited simply of mana and literal roids. OP pic is her ability gained by those roids. I don't remember name but something like "miasma armor" or aura. Should be in her status screen in VN. And in VN Berserker was annihilated without any chances. If anything they actually show best of Berserk in anime. Peak.

>tsukihime is overwanked harem shit
Nah. Satsuki's plight, Kohaku's revelation, Shiki's mental breakdowns and insight into Roa's psyche, his own memories of his clan, these are all things that are written amateurishly but have very compelling scenarios. I'd say, anyway, but it's still a long way off "overwanked harem shit".

I stopped watching anime over half a decade ago. I only read manga now

>since it's nearly impossible to write around
Not really. Again, Gil is established as the hard counter, it's not even difficult for him, and UBW could've been used to the same effect, by Archer of even Shirou under the right circumstances. The idea should be to come up with other circumventions or just something other than just murdering Herc to solve the problem, you could just kill Ilya for one thing. It's just lazy to go back on what's been said, though in this instance I'd suspect it really is that Nasu couldn't remember what he'd written multiple times over about a decade, which is a little worrying.

He is saying that GH is made of
- Resurrection
- nullification of attacks below B.
- increased resistance to previous attacks.

He doesn't become fully immune, it's more like he gains a resistance modifier. Nasu already talked about it in an interview. Excalibur is just OP and even moreso when the restraints are off, that's why the Einzberns wanted her in the 4th war.

>She has unlimited simply of mana and literal roids
Yes, but increased mana doesn't necessarily increased damage. It might mean she can increase her attack value with mana burst, but that doesn't mean it applies to anything other than her strength in terms of inflicting damage. Mostly it's about her defense, IIRC.
>And in VN Berserker was annihilated without any chances.
I figured it didn't seem so stupid there. Of all the different instances of how this works, being one-shot by boosted Excalibur such that all the lives are drained in one is the one case where it actually makes sense, as ridiculous as it sounds.
>If anything they actually show best of Berserk in anime. Peak.
If you mean of Berserker, then not really. He gets chumped in both the UBW and HF anime and the scenes just make his opponent look better in both instances. Unless you mean the fight choreography in general, in which case I can't really agree with that either. It's overblown, for one thing. It's the sort of thing that makes me appreciate the fight scenes in KnK where the most extreme sequences is the Ogawa building collapsing.

>- increased resistance to previous attacks.
It says
>rendering an attack that it has experienced before useless
>completely nullified

See above.

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>GETSUGA TENSHOOOU
Kubo should sue

who am i looking at

Pretty sure FSN did it first. It's pretty close either way.

She used Vortigern attack and burn. Both of those attacks have no stats. Vortigern aka Exaliblast appears only in UC. Why do you think they're somehow low rank is beyond me. Especially when the power of Excalibur NP has direct connection to mana. Even weak Excalibur can take 2 lives from Herc. Why charging mana into her already A rank powered attack should be weakest than Rin's magecraft? If you want to paly roof/no proof game - we don't know the power of her burn/Vortigern outside that Vortigern was her super move
>being one-shot by boosted Excalibur such that all the lives are drained
Excalibur can take only 7 lives.

F/SN came out in 2004
The first getsuga tensho beam happened in chapter 161, which came out in 2005

It's shit. She'd hate it and you should hate her

>Slash death
>magic purple flame death
>actual fire death
>Excalibur death (7 or more lives at once)
Even if you weren't wrong about how GH works it makes sense in any case.

I think the shadow tentacles might have been a death as well
Since he wasn't moving before Illya yelled for him

>Why do you think they're somehow low rank is beyond me.
I'm saying there's no specific justification for it. Bare in mind that Invisible Air mana burst couldn't hurt Herc before (in the VN, fuck the anime) and increasing strength shouldn't affect it.
> Especially when the power of Excalibur NP has direct connection to mana.
"Weak" Excalibur is literally just the result of what happens when Saber tries to use it without the mana to supply it, it doesn't mean it's a canon that just increases its power the more mana you put into it, there's using it properly or not.
>Why charging mana into her already A rank powered attack should be weakest than Rin's magecraft?
Why would Rin's jewels be stronger than Gae Fucking Bolg? You tell me.
>Excalibur can take only 7 lives.
Considering Caliburn, actually why?

It's actually one short, but whatever.

About God Hand's "immunity"
>Q: With Berserker's Noble Phantasm God Hand, you gain resistance to an attack once you're hit by it, but do you only gain this resistance by having died once? Would the same attack be effective multiple times as long as it was before he died?
>Nasu: You don't have to die. For example... if you were to take fire damage, once you recover you would gain +100 resistance to fire.
>Takeuchi: Oh, feels like it has been toned-down. Wouldn't it have completely nullified it before?
>Nasu: I said it won't work, but I don't think I've ever said it'll be negated. BB: "Mine is to nullify all attacks, Macho-san's is to triple his defense! What's the difference!?" Heracles: "It's not even close (to your hacked ability)!"
>Takeuchi: No matter how you put it, it's an overpowered skill.

>I figured it didn't seem so stupid there. Of all the different instances of how this works, being one-shot by boosted Excalibur such that all the lives are drained in one is the one case where it actually makes sense, as ridiculous as it sounds.
There was hardly a fight in VN. Saber just Excaliblasted him almost from the get go leaving him with at least 1 life and Shadow absorbed him while he was recovering.

Sakura is hooked up to the greater grail so she supplies servants under her with basically infinite mana. The blackening comes from the Angra corruption of the grail.

What is this?

Maybe that long ranged beam she fired kill him as well then. The only other explanations are Excalibur took 8 lives or the tentacles somehow took another like said.

>About God Hand's "immunity"
We've been over this, see .
>There was hardly a fight in VN. Saber just Excaliblasted him almost from the get go leaving him with at least 1 life and Shadow absorbed him while he was recovering.
Yeah, and it made sense. Not so exciting, but Ufotable's overdone fight scenes aren't exactly an improvement.

Shadow consumed Herc alive. He had live left
In VN he was blacked Herc was blind.

>Takeuchi: Oh, feels like it has been toned-down. Wouldn't it have completely nullified it before?
Even Takeuchi called him out on his bullshit, fucking hell Nasu.

>excalibur is now B-tier

>I'm saying there's no specific justification for it. Bare in mind that Invisible Air mana burst couldn't hurt Herc before (in the VN, fuck the anime) and increasing strength shouldn't affect it.
Well, in VN she slashes through God Hand once with regular attack because of her A rank strength and that's it, if she could continuosly slash him like that is unknown. Generally people use that +100 resistance Nasu's quote to justify movie version.
>Considering Caliburn, actually why?
What we know from VN about Excalibur and God Hand:
- weakened by low mana supply Excalibur can barely take 2 lives
- Excalibur without mana problems can finish off Herc with 5 lives according to Ilya
- Saber Alter's Excalibur didn't make him disappear so he had at least 1 life left
So Excalibur normally takes between 5 to 11 lives.

Do you write the commonly spoken language on this board user?

>NP unleashed ranks are the same as just hitting people with them
Cool, I guess Shirou can innately survive B rank NPs after Cu hit him all those times.

>Well, in VN she slashes through God Hand once with regular attack because of her A rank strength and that's it, if she could continuosly slash him like that is unknown.
If she did it before regeneration it'd be understandable, but that's not how the anime handled it.
>Generally people use that +100 resistance Nasu's quote to justify movie version.
And my main complaint was that it was a complete brainfart on Nasu's part that even Takeuchi called out. Either he's casually retconning on the fly or his memory is fucked, neither of which is good.
>So Excalibur normally takes between 5 to 11 lives.
Well yeah, that's why I was wondering what the 7 cap was about. A more pertinent question would be how or why Ilya thought she knew exactly how many lives Excalibur could take, even if she knows Herc's limitations as his master and can read Saber's stats that really shouldn't be enough to deduce something so abstract.

What version of the movie should I torrent you fags?

We know that Caliburn in specific conditions, like in Fate route, has same power as Excalibur when true name released.
>but that's not how the anime handled it.
She only slashed him once in anime

>We know that Caliburn in specific conditions, like in Fate route, has same power as Excalibur when true name released.
The same power as Excalibur? Again, this may be because I haven't read it in a decade, but was that actually specified? I remember it taking seven lives, but I don't remember it being stated to be the same in power as Excalibur.
>She only slashed him once in anime
And the other attacks shouldn't have had any basis on her strength stat. Or her mana stat, as far as can be observed.

>And my main complaint was that it was a complete brainfart on Nasu's part that even Takeuchi called out. Either he's casually retconning on the fly or his memory is fucked, neither of which is good.
I understand your frustration with Nasu retconning shit on the fly, but it is the best explanation on why he keeps getting killed.
Though, Ufotable already forgot how God Hand works in UBW anime where Shirou's Saber could get past it with regular slashes so maybe they just don't care.
>Well yeah, that's why I was wondering what the 7 cap was about. A more pertinent question would be how or why Ilya thought she knew exactly how many lives Excalibur could take, even if she knows Herc's limitations as his master and can read Saber's stats that really shouldn't be enough to deduce something so abstract.
Only 2 lives line was about precise number and it's from Taiga dojo so it's meta comment rather than actual Ilya talking. About taking 5 lives, Ilya saw Excalibur being used against Rider before so she's just saying that something on that level should finish off Berserker when he has less than half of his resurrections left, she never says that 5 is the limit.

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Mana Burst attacks she uses which is probably tied to her A++ mana stat and Mana burst in terms of what it can do.

It was Herk that knew the sword could take all of his lives. If Illya knew she must not have known or her pride was hurt so much after that Emiya beatdown that she didn't care.

Does Shirou!Saber even have the problem with her dragon reactor not running in the UBW anime? It's never mentioned so she might be operating closer to full power than her VN counterpart.

No idea. Her stats don't change in VN when she gets her reactor activated in Fate route though, it only fixes her mana supply problem.

Fair enough.

God Hand works differently in the anime
The trade off is that Herc can regain any lives lost which is why Gil had to kill him 12 times again even though he already lost 2 lives in the fight with Saber and Archer

The work of an unrepentant shitposter.

Why is Saber Alter even attacking Illya anyways? She doesn't start working with Sakura until after she murders Shinji and by then they've apparently discussed that Sakura would kill herself and that Saber Alter would help her with that plan. So who is ordering Saber Alter up to this point?

>God Hand works differently in the anime
It still nullifies weak attacks like in VN and Gil said that only high rank weapons work against it in anime. To me it just felt that Ufotable wanted to make Saber vs Berserker fights look cooler because in VN under Shirou she can't do anything against Berserker without releasing Excalibur so the fight would've looked too one-sided.

Caliburn is pretty hot topic of "asspulls" discussion. I was on asspull side until some user proven me wrong. Everything was build up to exact moment where Saber with Shirou killing Herc. Kinda theme of Saber and her king problem. Later it was confirmed in FGO. Saber Lily profile. It's mention that when sword wielded by true king the power will be same but sword will break

Technically speaking the first Getsuga Tenshou happened in ch 60-something and kept repeating itself semi-infrequently until the Byakuya fight when it was finally given a name. The black version came shortly after.

Because her base attack is A rank. Just swinging her sword is enough secondary-kun.

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He is talking about all the attacks after the sword swing, but those would be tied to her A++ mana stat which is also more than enough to do damage on it's own. Except for the setting on fire part. I don't know how that one works.

it's a spambot not an actual person

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man that looks like shit

When will mods ban fate spam and ESL faggots

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