How could he have beat Dio without it being an asspull?

Wouldnt work. He would use epitaph and see he now has a hole in his chest and that dio teleported

>DIO
no
>Dio
yes

Rough draft Dio could use all stand powers but araki realized it was stupid and gave him time stop

Have him stall until dawn

>he has to use various forms of quick and creative thinking of getting around Dio's timestop.
That's basically what happened during the first part of fight, what with the magnet trick, fake death trick, magazine trick, etc. But clever tricks can only get you so far, it can at most buy you around 2 to 3 seconds and can only work once. In order to match Dio's 5 seconds time stop, it's essential that Jotaro needs to be able to move for the other 2-3 seconds as well.
Which is actually a pretty good setting for the protagonist to overcome, as he still is the underdog and require tricks after tricks just to get by in the fight, and cannot not rely on "lol just punch harder". Which is fine and all, until Dio started sucking Joseph's blood and can increase the duration of his timestop. At that point there's no other choice for Araki other than making Jotaro's ability stronger as well, and the rest of the fight went back to "just punch harder". Tbh the fight should just finish after Dio's first form, or at least continue in a similar manner.
Well, at least the final timestop trick was good though.

>Dio
Absolutely, even Straitzo was a stronger vampire plus he already knew about hamon while Dio didn't.
>DIO
Considering Part 3 Joseph almost killed him, probably.

The way i saw it the first few times i read it was the world was able to time stop everytjing in the world. Star platinum being outside the world had a kind of weakened effect on it.

With the power of friendship

the only asspull was a VAMPIRE with a STAND.

"I asked the old man to teach me some of that 'Hamon breathing' of his. I don't really get it but it's enough for me to put into star Platinum's punches."

>Diavolo uses Epitaph and sees DIO suddenly teleport behind him and himself donutted
>uses King Crimson
>DIO teleports and donuts the air
>Diavolo moves behind DIO
>DIO finds himself teleported and Diavolo behind him
>gets donutted

araki has no consistency, in character design, story, and power system

he trumped a 400 IQ ultimate organism

>which DIO are we talking about? there are 3 versions of him

it was fine. They made a point multiple times that World and Star Platinum were similar stands.

Honestly I wish Araki just said that the World had every Joestar stand power. It would clear so much of the inconsistencies and mystery and make it far less ass pully

Yo're worse than the people who believe in time travelling Josuke.

Doesn't Hamon require physical contact to transfer? Hermit purple was always connected to Joseph like wires. Star Platinum is free floating even if it only floats for short distances

>anons headcanon
Very cute, we have this thread at least once a week and KCfags always get btfo

If king crimson was just king crimson i would agree... epitaph is what makes that stand broken and what the other guy said was just changing dio with bruno and adding epitaph to the mix... KC's actual weakness is numbers... he can destroy most stand users one by one but if he is fighting a group he can't do bold moves, dio can, and he could have donuted joseph, jotaro, polnareff(this one even way before) and kakyoin at the same time when they opened his coffin

peak Joseph is OP as fuck, its a shame that Araki had to nerf him for part 3 instead of making him like Jotaro in part 4.

Tempting Polnareff and Kakyoin wasnt a stand power, it was just his raw animal sexuality

>Star Platinum stopping time was an asspull, but it's perfectly okay for Jotaro to be able to see and move during the stopped time.

I don't get you people. It's either all an asspull or none of it is.

This. I mean I feel like the groundwork for Jotaro being able to timestop himself was pretty decently foreshadowed.

the same way goku beat hit by predicting shit.

KC knows and can skip whenever in the next ten seconds something bad would happen to him. How does doing five to ten seconds of actions condensed into an instant confer any benefit against that? It just makes it much easier for him to foresee and nullify Dio's approach and attack.

Most people who consider stopping time to be an asspull are also including the time stop immunity.

This. Araki just foreshadowed for once instead of asspull and you faggots still complain.

The real asspull isn't Jotaro time stopping, but rather Dio dying after star platinum cracks The World. Isn't the World way stronger than SP? Jotaro should've at least taken Dio's advice to Polnareff, and attempt to scramble Dio's brain with some sharp object. Nearly anything woudlve been better than just 'MUH STAR PLATINUM PUNCH I WIN'.

Attached: Bro.......jpg (387x452, 60K)

Suddenly mastering hamon would be just as much an asspull as getting time stop, that's not something you can instantaneously pull off even if you're jotaro

Unlike Dio he developed Star Platinum really fast during that long ass journey even though World is far superior in everything. Dio stuck in his shitty dark apartment, basically he lost only because he was vampire.

Wait until morning so DIO burns.

based opinion

> Isn't the World way stronger than SP?
it is. But Jotaro grew up during that battle to the point he could dominate World who stuck in growth. SP got huge level up + considering Jotaro is a cold blooded type he went full rage after others death that shit gave him powerup

The World was obviously weaker than SP and it was a given. SP had way better feats while ZW had what? Failing to kill Kakyoin during the car chase? Because of le stand range? Please. Also SP took on ZW + DIO's vampire strength + a steam roller.

Why didnt DIO shoot everyone blood beams during stopped time and call it a day?

Attached: a48.png (380x379, 201K)

Except hamon users stumble into it all the time too

Have Jotaro use Thoth to predict outcomes, so he would know where Dio was after each time stop. Alternatively yell at Joseph for not bringing UV lights to a fight with a vampire.

I was spoiled with DIO's freezing of time so at the end of the first OP I thought it was Star Platinum punching so hard and fast he breaks time.

The most disappointing part of this fight for me was DIO not using any of his vampire powers. I was expecting a fight where Jotaro would have to overcome not only The World but Space Ripper and Vaporizing Freeze. Him using knives instead of the eyes was just silly.

DIO was stupidly OP so him not using the powers is fine.

Fight in the daytime

How would I fix it?
>Jotaro in Part 3 cannot stop time at all, but is able to move for split seconds and able to see everything in stopped time
>He learns how to stop time for two seconds in Part 4

>Jotaro keeps getting Muda'd in stopped time but finds opportunities to punch DIO in stopped time with single, powerful punches
>He figures out that DIO has Vampire Abilities like regenerating but it is very slow and weak due to DIO lacking Joestar Blood
>Each time DIO loses a bodypart/loses a lot of blood, his body keeps regenerating slower and getting weaker
>Jotaro uses the knives that are thrown at him by DIO against DIO and keeps trying to find new ways to cut DIO's bodyparts off
>DIO keeps repeating how cutting the body is USELESS because of regeneration but doesnt notice how it keeps getting slower
>At one point DIO starts using laser eyes and Jotaro figures he needs to reflect them back
>Remembers how Joseph told him fantasy stories back when Jotaro was a child about how Joseph reflected laser eyes against a Vampire
>Jotaro finds a mirror and cuts DIO's head off with his own eyes
>Za Warudo (without a head) throws a single powerful punch while Jotaro was going after DIO's head
>Star Platinum punches Za Warudo's fist back
>DIO's body explodes
>In a desperate attempt, DIO's head tries to attack Jotaro from behind while he looks at the exploding body
>Jotaro himself punches DIO's head and splits it in half with that punch

Joseph getting drained, ROADROLLAH, reviving Joseph and disintegrating DIO's remains in sunlight still happens.
Jotaro learns how to stop time in the very first fight against Kira.

What's the point of using the eyes if he can just throw knives?

Dio grew more during that battle than Jotaro. Not only did he level up his time stop from 5 seconds to 9, but after consuming Josephs blood, he grew even stronger. All Jotaro did was defend from Dios attacks hoping for a window to finish him off. Pic related.

Attached: DIO VS JOTARO STAND RUSH.png (1920x1080, 1.96M)

Hide until the sun came out

Laser Eyes are instant and can completely pierce the body.
They also cannot be blocked with fists.

Star Platinum could block it

I think Dio tries it in the PS3 game, and Jotaro punches it away. Dio said he knew that would happen, but just wanted to try it anyways

They will pierce the body
This means you cant block it with your body
Star Platinum would have 2 holes in his arms and chest

DIO's eye laser cut his own castle's entire roof in half in Part 1.

Thats a load of bullshit, fucking stupid how SP can just punch a laser

Definitely not canon.
Even Araki would have said "Nah, it can shoot through him" if somebody asked him.

Star Platinum can breathe as shown by inhaling Enya's fog stand which means he could probably just have SP generate its own hamon

How could a physical fluid harm Star Platinum?

It's not a laser you dumbass. It's a pressurized stream of eye fluids. Stands can block physical matter.

How can a physical object (knives) harm Star Platinum?

Since Araki is retarded as fuck this is what should’ve happened. Jotaro hides for the majority of the fight using smokescreens and other shit and makes Dio heal periodically in between time stops

When Dio finally confronts Jotaro, Polnareff saves him, Jotaro fucks Dio up to the point where he can barely regenerate, and loses by the time the sun is up. Just like how Kira should’ve used the surrounding area to explode shit to bide time for his escape, Jotaro could’ve done the same thing until it was morning since writing shit is not that hard

They don't?

Make it so that The World more closely resembles Dio. Have it so that The World and Star Platinum are two halves of the same stand, both originating from Jonathan. Maybe make a superficial point of DIO recognizing Star Platinum as Jonathan. Because they are two halves of one stand, they share abilities, which Jotaro realises and thus can stop time.

When did Star Platinum get harmed by a knife?

The entire fight I was thinking he would win through the sun rising or accidently transfusing to the corpse body with the broken bones effectively imprisoning himself

Didnt Jonathan and Joseph both wield it lethally enough for vamps on their first try and at least anons hamon idea does actually have somewhere it comes from unlike the same stand shit

DIO was just prototype Gilgamesh

I love Jojo but Araki is a terrible writer, even moreso in the older parts.

I feel like older parts are better written for being far more straight forward.

Part 3 started to show it, but characters get weirder and weirder in their disposition as the series progressed. I think reason why Steel Ball run is so liked is because the characters finally feel bit clearer

Older parts are better because they don't take themselves so seriously.

King Crimson and epitaph is literally the perfect counter to The World. Even if the timestop lasted a millennium it would still be skipped

I agree with this. Jojo's writing suffered the most when Araki tried to move on to more complex stories, before he got better at it in SBR.

He only moved onto a more complex story in part 6

this. I heard it had to do with him realizing The Sun as a stand power for DIO would have been stupid and instagibbed himself if he experimented

Where did you hear that from?

How did he foreshadow it other than the world and Star Platinum being the same kind of stand visually? (Not disagreeing, just an animefriend)

Part 5 had much deeper characters and symbolism.

Araki's basic bitch Jesus symbolism with Giorno made for a worse story. Araki is good at writing fights with interesting powers, GER being an instant win button made for an awful fight.

It’s no coincidence that josuke met someone who looks like him and the final villain can travel back in time. Obviously arak I had an idea that was changed but some parts were kept, just like p3 DIO and his original stand

DIO hit him with his bad leg that literally just got destroyed

The storylines aren't that complex until Part 6.

You should try to actually think a little deeper for once in your life.

Araki confirmed during the publication of Part 4 that the man wasn’t Josuke.

Obviously a lie to cover up his own ass.

>dio isn't a retard and donuts diavolo in stopped time
>diavolo dies

You're delusional.

I accept your lack of counterargument as a concession.

It gets erased

>dio isn't a retard
bold assumption

Reading through jojo threads I'm still confused as to why people think Epitath wouldn't be able to see the stopped time. People constantly say "all he'd see is DIO teleporting and him getting donutted" but why would it not be able to see what The World does? It sees the future, stopped time or not.

It's because we will never get a definite answer so the fanbase likes to make shit up and people believe it.

Having him grow throughout the series instead of just during the final fight

If you watch DIO stop time in the present, it looks like he's teleporting. So naturally we can assume that watching him stop time in the future would be the same. Right?

Dio's existence is a literal asspull, who the fuck cares.

The effects of the event are not errased. KC just separates D from the flow of time and inserts him back into it.

Meaning that Diavolo doesn't get donutted

I wasn’t arguing that, i was correcting you. Dumb dumb

But I was right.

No, the underlying assumptions that you base your argument on are wrong. You misunderstand what KC’s abilities are.

Nope it gets erased

No you’re just a retard.

Wrong sorry

You can stop shitposting now

This. He just makes shit up as he goes along.

Through dumb luck and shit talk, though. Kars had his ass dead to rights, and only the Stone of Aja saved Joseph

Since it was stated that Dio awakened Stands in all Joestars I thought that Za Warudo and Star Platinum are both Joestar stands and practically the same with the difference that Za Warudo looks Dioish, because he owns it

Attached: 1558727294802.png (415x441, 236K)

The World isn't actually Jonathan's. We see Dio use something similar to Hermit Purple, THAT was Jonathan's.
Much as I would love Jonathan's potential stand to be The World, it's Dio's

Attached: jonathan-joestar-9720-normal.jpg (355x500, 41K)

Then he arrowed his neck

You forgot part of the basic idea of stands, which is that they're a manifestation of the user's will or fighting spirit. Their first clash proved Jotaro wouldn't win in a straight fight as things were, so he decided to play mindgames instead to break DIO mentally. Star Platinum didn't suddenly get stronger at all during the fight, even its ability to stop time was foreshadowed a couple times previously. Jotaro just consistently fucked with DIO on every single play.

Attached: img000003.png (755x1200, 1.68M)

>attack his pride to have a "man tk vampire" fight to show who's superior
>cheat and use stand
>cheat and have polnareff die distracting him
>ORA ORA to death

>King Crimson has no chance against DIO and only literal drooling retards disagree

Meanwhile Bites the Dust will kill both and neither will even know how or why

It's hard to tell if he would be able to see stopped time. But even without that, Diavolo would still win if he sees himself get donutted thought epitaph. He can just activate KC, wait around the spot Dio "teleports" to and get the jump on him when time is erased.

>>Meaning that Diavolo doesn't get donutted

Why would DIO donut someone he's frozen in place? He doesn't need to do that.

>erasing stopped time

Ask Kakyoin

Have it so that DIO's ability is more
closely tied to the Joestar's blood, and even show off his version of Hermit Purple and wave it around like "Look at this, your Stand is so shit that even I, DIO, could find no use for it, old man." Jotaro notices the similarities of the World and Star Platinum and deduces that its ability to stop time must be shared between them. Still a little asspully, but at least some for of set up instead of none.
I think that's shit though. What the OVA did was nice, having Jotaro experience time stop more than just once before he moves in it consciously. In the OVA Jotaro is instead trolled on the stairs by DIO, and the first time DIO actually attacks him in stopped time, Star Platinum protect him, like he did against the bullet fired, almost acting on its own. Jotaro then realizes time stop is his true ability.

Since when has "doesn't need to do" ever stopped Dio? He didn't NEED to murder Jonathan's dog, he didn't NEED to try to ruin Jonathan's life, he didn't NEED to murder George considering he was still his adopted son

No, shadup stop being gay

>Failing to kill Kakyoin during the car chase? Because of le stand range? Please.
Yes, that's literally how stands work. Hierophant was outside of The World's effective range, and so The World couldn't hit hard.
As for the road roller, Jotaro would've been fucked if he didnt have a plan. He didn't win that clash, he endured 2 seconds of it, stopped time before the road roller could crush and kill him, snuck up behind DIO when he ran out of his time stop and then hit him in his weak spot.

But he did. He survived getting his skull cracked like safety glass, put himself back together after being dismembered, and gave Joseph the succ.

It is a coincidence. It plays into the theme of the golden spirit of Morioh and how random acts of kindness can create lasting changes across lives. The idea that it was a random street punk who just got out of a fight and felt a sudden urge to help a trapped woman and her child is much better than it being Josuke from the future saving himself.

>and then proceeds to destroy Diavolo because DIO's a vampire who can survive getting turned into a donut

It would've been better if it had been foreshadowed long before the literal last fight in the part. Having Jotaro remark just once or twice about how Star Platinum is acting weird and enemies seem to be "hesitating" before trying to counterattack him would be enough of a tip that he was subtly coming into his Stand's true power without fully being aware of it. A split second of the enemy seemingly frozen in place, but so quickly that Jotaro doesn't seem to notice that everything around him has stopped for the briefest of moments would be absolutely perfect. The perfect time to do it would've probably been the Anubis fight when Polnareff and him had their standoff. Silver Chariot and Star Platinum are seemingly equal in speed (possibly slightly in SC's favour when it still has its armor on), so Jotaro subconsciously activating time stop to gain the slightest edge against someone who he knows he may not be able to outspeed would be the perfect foreshadowing.

I think the problem is that the way Araki wrote the scene made it seem like the stranger's identity was important and would be revealed later. Combined with the clear visual similarities to Josuke, I can't blame people for assuming that Araki would later reveal that it was Josuke.

>Star Platinum's power could have been ignoring effects placed upon it by other stands, so for example Jotaro cannot move but starplatinum can and defends him.

>lol just give star platinum god mode immunity

>Joseph having the same stand as DIO (Jonathan's) is ok but Jotaro having the same stand as DIO is an asspull
>Despite DIO's first words after their fight started being "It appears our stands are the same type"

Not him, but DIO was talking about them being close-range power stands that are fast and strong but lack in range.

It was put in there to establish that their stands are extremely similar, and with his other stand being a literal copy of Joseph, you'd have to be retarded to think it was actually an asspull. The foreshadowing was there since the 3rd episode of the first season.

establish or at least more strongly hint that star platinum can stop time earlier. It's not a broken ability when it only works for half a second, just give us a few instances where it's more heavily implied. Like, it's sort of established that in some instances of star platinum doing shit ridiculously fast jotaro was unconsciously stopping time for a split second, but that may or may not be a retcon and it wasn't clear enough for this to not seem like bullshit. Just make it explicit.

I think it would be hard to foreshadow stopped time in a manga where everything is already a still image.

literally you just needed like one or two instances of some dude going "HE WAS SO FAST, IT WAS LIKE TIME DIDN'T MOVE AT ALL"

DIO having his Hermit Purple-like Stand is a leftover of Araki's original idea of giving him all of the stand abilities that just got turned into him having Jonathan's stand, which is inexplicably an exact copy of Joseph's stand. That's not foreshadowing. It wasn't DIO's other stand either if you want to go that route. It was Jonathan's body's stand. The World is entirely DIO's, so Joseph's stand and Jonathan's stands being similar shouldn't have any bearing on Jotaro and DIO's stands. That's more than just a leap in logic.

It would be tough, but having Jotaro take a second to note audibly or looking surprised for a second while thinking it to himself would've been a good moment as well. Breaking up his normal stoicism with a sudden "oh shit, was my enemy just standing there stupidly or did Star Platinum get even faster for a split second there," while looking confused would be an easy enough way to let the reader know something is up.

It should've happened during the fight against Anubis Polnareff since Jotaro was getting pushed back by speed

That would be less of a hint and more like a straight up reveal. Then when we see DIO stop time, it's not as impactful.

It'd have to be handled with care to really work. Just inserting a single panel where Jotaro looks surprised about having defeated the enemy so quickly and without being injured himself and then remarking something like "seems like Star Platinum has gotten slightly faster," and then chalking it up to his development from having so many battles up to that point and disregarding the seeming oddness of the moment would be a minor moment that could be played off as Jotaro being surprised at his own growth for a moment, but would come to have more meaning later when the truth is revealed.

King Crimson doesn't work in stopped time. Epitaph is not a passive ability, it has to be activated and used if Diavolo feels he or Doppio is in danger. Epitaph does not work in stopped time.

King Crimson vs The World is a 'who uses their ability first' stand-off where Dio has the advantage as Diavolo is a retard with a weaker stand, as well as being a human being without Joestar blood. If everything goes in Diavolo's favor, and he manages to skip the right amount of time and donut Dio, Dio is a vampire and will not die from being donutted.

Why does this have to be explained to you every thread? Do you have brain damage? Are you one of those off-site faggots who jumped board the series because of how gay the characters pose?

Araki doesn't actually like faggots, in case you're not aware, he places them the same tier as dogs and cats. That's why they're always depicted as pedophiles and villains.

based speedreader-kun
except that DIO would kill diavolo in stopped time as he doesn't fuck around with people who pose a threat

Did you read his post? If Diavolo is in a fight, he's going to be using Epitaph to predict his opponent's attacks. You're talking about a situation where DIO stops times before Diavolo even realizes that there's a fight, which isn't what the discussion was about.

the problem comes from the way Jotaro so casually says he stopped time, that's literally the problem. as stupid as it sounds, the fact that he doesn't sound surprised or shocked makes the reveal look like an asspull when it really wasn't

Actually dio has the advantage because he can stop time before dia attacks him.
It depends on the cooldown of KC. If diavolo can erase time constantly then there is no opportunity for Dio to kill him but dia can't kill Dio either since time is constantly being erased and he can't interact. But if there is any moment where dia can't erase time (like ability recharging or something)Dio can just stop time and kill him since dio's ability can recharge in erased time.

it just needed to be foreshadow a bit earlier

there are only two ways this can go
1
>DIO stops time and gets a good hit on Diavolo before he can react
>Diavolo is now dead

2
>Diavolo uses his stand to prevent DIO from doing the above and gets a good hit on DIO
>DIO remains alive, because he is an immortal vampire
>DIO's reactions allow him to avoid all such hits in the future, as he is now prepared for them and Diavolo cannot attack during the erased time
>the fight continues until DIO successfully stops time without it being erased and kills Diavolo, or simply overwhelms him with his supernatural endurance and physical abilities
>Diavolo is now dead

He doesn't. His character is being as Mary Sueish as possible to pander to Japanese fanfags. There were assholes that unironically believed that he would have won that death battle against Kenshiro.

Time stop gets foreseen by Epitaph and DIO being the overconfident twat he is gets donuted.

It's heavily implied that there's a cooldown otherwise Diavolo would just keep erasing time constantly after donutting everyone since his stand is fast and strong enough to get the drop on people. Hell, he could just basically infinitely delete time at that point and not have to worry. DIO and Jotaro had similar limitations on time stop, which is why Jotaro got fucked up not once, but twice in part 6 after coming out of time stop. He gets tired after using time stop, but is still able to use it multiple times in any given scene as long as he has a couple seconds between uses.

And then turns his head a full 180 degrees to stare Diavolo right in the face as he turns his twink body into churro with a misplaced hole.

No you.

Honestly it didn't really feel like an asspul.
the first time i saw The World my first thought was that it functioned very similarly to Star Platinum, and throught part 3 it felt like Jotaro was getting better at using his stand with every villain encounter, so it seems fair that his true potential would be unlocked when fightning the final villain. Why the stands are so similar to begin with can be attributed to Genetics.

>Dio
Yes
>DIO
Probably if he managed to trick him with hamon. He got kinda close with Hermit Purple but DIO tore it apart. If Joseph could've tricked him with some strings or something maybe he could've fried him

That wasn't an asspull that was good. DIO cheated (after expressing his "end justifies the mean" ideals and saying how he achiever victory doesn't matter) and tried to blind Jotaro before kicking him BUT since he used his blood his leg didn't heal in time and he kicked with his bad one. If he had waited like Jotaro asked him to in "wild west" style and then kicked with his healed leg he wouldn've won.
It's pretty obviously done

Part 5 and 7 are his magnum opuses and the only parts of JoJo that get to be high art

Yeah, I don't know why people think DIO has even a small chance to win this fight. King Crimson is a hardcounter to timestop stands. It just erases the entire period of stopped time and then donuts the timestop user. There's no way for DIO to win that fight unless you start them right next to each other and don't let epitaph factor in at all.

It's not like it was ever established that kicking with a bad leg would magically cause your entire body to explode. At worst, his leg would pop off again.

your mistake is that you're exclusively factoring in the stands and not the stand users, DIO is still a vampire, they could be stuck in an endless loop of stopping time and erasing time until one of the loses stamina, and that someone won't be DIO.
this is of course assuming we're talking about retconned part 3 dio, because if he still had his part 1 vampire powers like freezing abilities and eye beams this would be a different story, well not different, just shorter.

By PULLing his ASS onto his dick lmao

The only way Jotaro having items he shouldn't was timestop foreshadowing, is if at the very start of part 3 SP was already able to stop time for long enough to puppet Jotaro's unknowing body out of the cell to the nearest convenience store and back.

King Crimson's time erasure doesn't seem to have the slightest effect on Diavolo's stamina, though.

Dio and Joseph having the same stand was a hint that, after Dio said his and Jotaro's stand were the same type, it may be that they also have the same stand. I'm sorry for any double-digit IQ mouth breather who couldn't figure that out.

He couldn't.

This.

This

I think it's poetic that Dio had a star called the world yet jotaro had a bigger perspective on the world by seeing it as an explorer underdog, and not a dark ruler. It feels gratifying that the world lost when it's flawless, simply because Dio was too arrogant to respect jotaros growth.

Yes. But he would have probably pulled a Kars and beaten him due to pure bullshit.