What is it about this fight that makes you all seethe so much...

>People were expecting internal consistency in a story without it, written by people without the talent or competense to supply it.
If that were true, the original VN wouldn't have been such a hit in the first place

People just don't like half assed wins
It's cool that shirou gets all those power up so he can compete with the main antagonist but then it's boring when the antagonist isn't trying at all, the climax and win doesn't feel earned since it's not the active protagonist's choices that lead to his victory but the nerfed antagonist. Would have been better if Shirou stated multiple time that he will capitalize on Gilgamesh ego to 4D chess his win but it's not what happens
doesn't help that shirou doesn't beat gilga since he is oom and archer kills steal thus weakening a lot the climax

>Would have been better if Shirou stated multiple time that he will capitalize on Gilgamesh ego to 4D chess his win but it's not what happens
Why would that need to be stated multiple times when it's very clear from the text what happened? Why do you think was even the point of the "Do you have enough weapons in stock line"?

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>servants are the strongerest x 1000 super heroes of the past enhanced ever further than their past self with powers far above humans
>btw shirou can beat them just fine once he learns to make a few swords lol
>also he beats the strongerest of them all that can literally pulverize anything at any time he wants because he's a idiot
fate's writing makes me want to puke.

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>>btw shirou can beat them just fine once he learns to make a few swords lol
Just Gil and he was severely mana boossted. He literally says it would never work on any other Servant who actually knew how to use their NPs

>>also he beats the strongerest of them all that can literally pulverize anything at any time he wants because he's a idiot
Gil not using Ea immediately is part of his flaw but it makes perfect sense from Gil's mindset which is established

yes, CONVENIENTLY shirou gets to beat 3 servants and kirei through the many paths.
It just HAPPENS he manages to beat hercules/archer/gilgamesh/kirei.
I wonder if it's because he's the main character and there always needs to be given a opening to win and it always works.

I dislike the ufotable version of this fight because of the ranged pissing contest rather than the bum rush and pray Gil stays retarded during the melee shit.

I've read the VN, this line isn't emphasized. That needs to be stated since we have every little thoughts that go through shirou's head but nothing point toward this strategy, in fact nothing ever point to shirou having a decent strategy at all.
Reminder that Shirou stated to gilgamesh that he will "surpass every one of gilgamesh's weapons" at the start of the fight, except he didn't.
This is why this fight isn't good, too much build up but no pay off.

>Hercules
Fate: Okay, Caliburn bullshit is bullshit. I'll concede that one. but tbf Rin and Seiba were backing him up.
UBW: gets Gil'd
HF: Extremely nerfed, lost his godhand's invulnerability due to shadow-boosted excalibur melting of his skin, blind, even more insane and lost all finesse that made him a true threat. Killed with his own weapon and Shirou using his future self's arm for slightly stronger projection than the other two routes.
>Archer
Fate: no fight
UBW: Only won 'mentally'. Archer let himself get stabbed but pretty much could have annihilated shirou at any point during their fight but wanted to break his spirit first. when that failed, and he remembers the passion he had for his ideals, he gives up.
HF: No fight.
Gilgamesh:
Fate: Gets mollywhopped and bisected from his shoulder down to his hip. only survives due to avalon.
UBW: UBW counters GOB, lets him replicates stats and fighting experience but is reduced by one rank, pretty much stays on offense to keep Gil from gaining his composure so he actually stand a chance because he knows he'd get destroyed by a calm Gilgamesh easily.
HF: BLACKED. I mean, shadow'd.
>Kirei
Fate: Avalon from Seiba. Azoth Dagger from Rin.
UBW: Lancer'd.
HF: Puts up a good fight but ultimately gets his ass kicked but Kirei was closer to death than he was due to suffering his injuries before Shirou did in the story.

>because of the ranged pissing contest rather than the bum rush and pray Gil stays retarded during the melee shit.
Uh, that was the DEEN version and everybody hated it. Ufotable has a good combo of both, I don't know what you're talking about.

Shirou is a regular human with no combat training nor experience, no magic talent, even his replicas are fragile and shatter in one hit, also he's "dying" for like 99% of this fight because summoning his RM is way out of his league at this point, and yet he's still able to move around like a cheetah.
Gilgamesh is a heroic spirit with a servant body superior in both skill and prowess to Shirou by several levels, he isn't making replicas he is using the real thing and he's far more at ease using his NP than Shirou.
The excuse for Shirou victory is that Gilgamesh got cocky and let Shirou get close to him and thus he got overwhelmed by Shirou's blind flurry unable to act because his Gates are slower compared to Shirou just summoning shit from thin air.
On surface level it makes sense for Shirou to win because his replicas are still more than able to harm a servant body and Gilgamesh is basically unharmed because he's not given the chance to summon a weapon of his own.
However Gilgamesh is a heroic spirit, he shouldn't be so green he gets in panic mode just from Shirou's blind flurry, with his servant body he should be more than able to dodge Shirou's clumsy attacks and kick him away to summon his signature weapon and win.
The essence of Shirou's victory is that Gilgamesh suddenly became mentally retarded.

>japanese highschooler beats former king of the world and histories greatest hero

>japanese highschooler beats witch from greek mythology

>japanese highschool teacher beats king arthur

>japanese fake priest beats the original assassin

If Gilgamesh actually tries to fight a noble phantasm with a kick all that's going to happen is his leg torn off. Besides, Gilgamesh dodging Shirou's attacks when he is equally as clumsy in melee combat is unlikely.

>internal consistency
You mean archaic powerlevel bullshit that's written like a JRPG encounter?

He's more than able to dodge Shirou's flurry and kick him away, what Kotomine can get into fistfight with Shiorou and make him a punchbag but Gilgamesh is unable to ?

Maybe because shirou was half dead at that point you fucking retard.

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>even his replicas are fragile and shatter in one hit
That literally only happens when Shirou half-asses the projection method. Replicas pulled straight from UBW are literally as durable as the originals.

Nasu said that this is a one-time-only thing and Shirou was playing to his strong point so it's not that bad. The Spark Liner High fight is the most bullshit Nasu pulled off with Shirou, like holy shit he actually expected people to believe SLH could happen.

Are you the same fag who thinks that because 10% power archer was forced to go up against 100% saber that suddenly that invalidates SLH?

Herc couldn't even damage Saber alter yet a half-dead Shirou was able to. You can't expect me to believe that shit. Not to mention Shirou should only have strength D as maximum since he was tracing K&B yet he could go through endurance A from Saber alter.
SLH is pure bullshit, at least Shirou died from it so it's not the worst asspull from Nasu.

Okay first of all, both of them were fucking dying and Shirou had to save his last projection for destroying the grail or he would have MASSACRED Kirei and second, not only was Shirou dying he had swords growing out of his limbs and joints that even moving made metal grind together inside him and produce sparks. of course he's not going to be able to move and fight at his full potential so Kirei still had a huge advantage in that regard of dodging and striking Shirou
Also
>Gil tries to kick Shirou
>UBW produces a sword out of thin air and slices it off.
Gil is pretty shit at melee but he's not retarded.

Fateshit is some of the worst written garbage in anime or any medium. It reads like a mad libs where randomness was the main criterion.

Yes, in pure physical capability when you aren't including things like tracing, Gilgamesh is stronger. Kotomine can turn Shirou into a punch bag because he is an experienced executor who spent most of his life fighting against superhuman dead apostles, magi, etc, but even he won't be able to survive a fully deployed UBW because he does not have the physical capabilities to do so. Servants other than Gilgamesh can do so because in addition to high physical capabilities they have skill too. Gilgamesh, however, is so bad at melee combat that Nasu stated if he ever tried to fight like a normal servant with an average noble phantasm in the 5th war, he would lose every time, he definitely isn't skilled enough to dodge UBW like other servants can.

>but even he won't be able to survive a fully deployed UBW because he does not have the physical capabilities to do so. Servants other than Gilgamesh can do so because in addition to high physical capabilities they have skill too
I thought normal servants could beat Shirou because they would never let him use UBW?
>Nasu stated if he ever tried to fight like a normal servant with an average noble phantasm in the 5th war, he would lose every time
He kinda beat Saber in melee in Fate though

>shitrouvsgiggles.jpg
>seethe

t.Never read the VN

Retard, Herc couldn't damage Saber Alter because she was blocking all of his attacks with strength similar to his. Three wings worked precisely because although she had more than enough strength to repel the blades, she couldn't block them all.
>I thought normal servants could beat Shirou because they would never let him use UBW?
Remember how in the final fight in the Fate route a weakened Saber managed to get close to Gilgamesh multiple times but couldn't capitalize on it because of his armor? A fight against Shirou in UBW would be kind of like that except without the armor.
>He kinda beat Saber in melee in Fate though
Because he was switching out all of his noble phantasms rapidly and Saber can't predict what kind of bullshit effect they would have. If he was limited to just one average noble phantasm he would die.

>he forgot that Herc was getting double teamed

The shadow was literally restricting Herc that entire fight you secondary. he couldn't use his full strength or agility. The thing that put him down in that fight was an excaliblast anyway, something saber was afraid of doing in the cave.

>Herc couldn't damage Saber Alter because she was blocking all of his attacks with strength similar to his
Did that happen in the movie? I recall that Herc just slammed his body into Saber alter and she tanked it like nothing before obliterated him with beam
>Three wings worked precisely because although she had more than enough strength to repel the blades, she couldn't block them all
She still had her armor, in fact Shirou hit her armor and not her neck or face. If she blocked Triple Crane Wings it would be her strength and not endurance
>A fight against Shirou in UBW would be kind of like that except without the armor.
So normal servants beat Shirou only when they don't let him use UBW?
>something saber was afraid of doing in the cave
She had no problem using it against pegasus and the shockwave did jackshit to the cave

they're both garbage as far as I'm concerned but the amount of rage this fight that is over a decade old is capable of generating is truly awe-inspiring

agreed. you need to be talented to create something popular

Only because she was forced to. She didn't want to chance it.

Your argument about her endurance falls flat too. Shirou was using a C rank noble phantasm that boost his strength when used together anyway while getting a nice clean hit from both her sides.

A rank endurance can't block everything and her endurance does come into play. The fact she lived at all from that attack is her A rank endurance factoring in.

>Did that happen in the movie? I recall that Herc just slammed his body into Saber alter and she tanked it like nothing before obliterated him with beam
No, that's exactly what happened in the VN, she never tanks any of Berserker's attacks there.
>She still had her armor, in fact Shirou hit her armor and not her neck or face. If she blocked Triple Crane Wings it would be her strength and not endurance
Triple Crane Wings is an A rank attack, she can't tank it with just her armor.
>So normal servants beat Shirou only when they don't let him use UBW?
No, normal servants would have some trouble getting close to him, but they are capable of doing so and once that happens he's dead.

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People want consistency. But Fate lacks it. Gil vs Shirou is FAR from the only instance.

And the more authors buff Gilgamesh in recent works, the more ridiculous this fight seemed.

>thinking any of the other works actually matter

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>A rank endurance can't block everything and her endurance does come into play. The fact she lived at all from that attack is her A rank endurance factoring in.
This. It's like people forget having high endurance doesn't let you just no-sell everything like Karna's armor, Herc's godhand, and Siegfried's skin does. A fatal but low-rank attack is still going to cause some pretty significant damage, you're just more likely to survive it.

Why would endurance A fail against strength C? That just sounds unbelievably retarded. Her armor was covering her entire body, it doesn't matter where Shirou hit it as long as he hit her body K&B should be deflected or broken.
>Triple Crane Wings is an A rank attack
Where does it cite that it's an A rank attack?
>but they are capable of doing so and once that happens he's dead
Why would he? Gil could BTFO Saber by swinging np, Shirou could do the same thing and even better since he could replay the moves of the np
>A fatal but low-rank attack is still going to cause some pretty significant damage, you're just more likely to survive it.
Where does it state that endurance doesn't help you tank attacks?

>Shirou is a regular human with no combat training nor experience

I think you missed that part where the projected NP give the stats and experience of the original user, it wasn't a blind flurry from a highschooler with the strength of a normal human, it was both of those with stats and skill of heroic spirits.

>he's far more at ease using his NP than Shirou
That was one of the main points of the fight, Gil had so many NP that he never mastered none, had it been a Hero that mastered his NP Shirou wouldn't stand a chance.

Take a pick:
A)Shirou was half dead and was being invaded by Archer's arm by having his body filled with swords
B)Shirou had no NP projected so he had normal human stats
C)Shirou couldn't project more unless he completely fries his brain

I just don’t understand why he didn’t use Ig-Alima, or Sul-sulgana, or True Nine Lives, or just use portals in the ground like with Bazett
There were loads of ways to win that fight without using Ea

>Where does it cite that it's an A rank attack?
The overedge version of K&B in the Deen anime is capable of killing Berserker once, and Nasu decided to make it canon after seeing it.

But Shirou didn't use overedge to beat Saber alter?

>I just don’t understand why he didn’t use Ig-Alima, or Sul-sulgana, or True Nine Lives, or just use portals in the ground like with Bazett
Because Prisma Illya is non canon and Gilgamesh actually doesn't have any divine equipment other than EA and Enkidu.

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Honestly movie made Saber Alter look much stronger in the fight against Herc. I never got the feeling that she would completely dominate him in 1 on 1 fight in VN. It mentions that they're pretty much even matched, but with Shadow restricting him he has massive disadvantage and then she Excaliblasts him and it's over.

Should I get into Fate?

He didn't? My bad, but even so, Saber Alter should be damaged from an attack that's even half as strong as something that can kill Berserker, seeing as she doesn't have anything as defensively busted as god hand.

Because A rank endurance isn't the same as God Hand? An A rank ability isn't on the same level as an A rank noble phantasm.

What is the point of God Hand if endurance does the same thing? What you're suggesting makes no sense.

Triple Crane Wings is just tracing 3 pairs of K&B to disrupt the enemy then attack them when they can't block the last attack. It doesn't mean K&B suddenly can break through higher rank.
For example Shirou in UBW traced K&B but they were blocked by Kuzuki who without doubt wasn't as strong as Herc or Saber alter.
>What is the point of God Hand if endurance does the same thing?
Godhand has regeneration, extra resistance after taking an attack and actual extra lives if you are killed. Endurance doesn't give you those. If Endurance is useless since lower rank strength can go through them then why bothers with tanking? Also Saber alter didn't use her body to take the attack, she actually had an armor that was no bad at all.

>For example Shirou in UBW traced K&B but they were blocked by Kuzuki who without doubt wasn't as strong as Herc or Saber alter.
Keep in mind that Shirou wasn't effectively utilizing his projection until halfway through his fight with Gilgamesh, and as such his projections were weaker when he fought Kuzuki but still managed to hold him back despite being strong enough to kill servants with his punches. UBW Shirou at the end is much stronger, and HF Shirou with Archer's arm is even stronger than that.

Can Shiki actually fuck Servants?

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>Can Shiki actually fuck Servants?
Arc is a servant in Fate/Extra so yes.

>And the more authors buff Gilgamesh in recent works
I'm sorry why does any "recent works" matter? Recent works make Saber Alter a giant joke that you can't imagine how anybody took her seriously back in the day

High rank endurance doesn't let you no sell shit. Why would Saber even bother parrying blows of Sasaki, for example, if she could just tank his C rank strenght attacks?

Yes but if you don't read the VN first, don't bother.

The stupid field of swords bit was already done in Bleach and they did it better. It's fuckin lame.

They all belong to (Me), everyone that I see

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Yes

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I can't understand why you think A rank endurance can completely block a noble phantasm literally only two ranks below it.

What you suggest makes endurance utterly broken as an ability. Mean I literally just told you that her endurance let her survive a fatal attack that almost cut her in half. If that doesn't scream endurance to you then what will?

Literally just gilfujos seething about him losing

>The stupid field of swords bit was already done in Bleach and they did it better.
Not only were those completely different situations and not even remotely used in the same way, those swords can't fly around and shit so I disagree

>best route
stopped reading there

Well there isn't really anything else to read after that so ok?

Well Fate's not the best route and while there's an argument for HF, there's also an argument that it doesn't get really interesting until the last bunch of days

Her armor could tank Herc's attack or some of Gil's np enough that she didn't have her organs spill out and spine broken. What Shirou did was utterly bullshit. Like if she was hurt somewhat like what pegasus or Kuzuki's strike did to her it would make sense yet here she was hurt so much that she required 10 minutes to heal.

>Her armor could tank Herc's attack or some of Gil's np
citation needed

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Right in your fucking pic, where the fuck were the organs? Why was she still standing and not lying down like Saber Alter? Later when she fought against Gil and Ea she tanked that fucking attack and could still help Shirou to help Caliburn/Avalon while having almost no mana unlike Saber alter.

Read the VN or fuck off

Kirei had long been dead at this point and Gil was running out of mana.

Gilgamesh post-death of Enkidu is an unlikeable asshole.

She took that much damage just from a glancing attack from Berserker and was fucking pasted in one solid hit on bad end 8. Most of the force from EA was blocked by her own beam, not to mention Gil himself stated that he doesn't want to kill Saber and probably toned down his Enuma Elish so she could survive it.

Post Enkidu is Wise King Gil, pre Enkidu is asshole Gil

but after his friend's death his spark is gone and the most charismatic parts of him in the epic were with his friend. the end is almost resignation to do the best before his death come

>She took that much damage just from a glancing attack from Berserker
Yet she could still fight, not to mention Shirou was using strength D with np C while Herc was rocking A+ strength
>Most of the force from EA was blocked by her own beam, not to mention Gil himself stated that he doesn't want to kill Saber and probably toned down his Enuma Elish so she could survive it.
Ea was still Ex rank np and her beam was weakened due to the lack of mana so it didn't actually block that much. Servants can also survive from losing a limb or their organs like Saber alter, if Saber didn't have mana to heal then Gil could solve dead orphan into her

>Shirou dies in a majority of the VN’s endings and only emerges triumphant in a very small number of them
>also has a skillset that proves the one optimal counter for Gil, after powerleveling in his fight with Archer, being supercharged on mana thanks to Rin, and taking advantage of Gil’s flawed personality to win
>still would have died in the end had Archer not survived and headshot Gil
>people will still bitch about this fight

>Yet she could still fight
No she very explicitly couldn't and that was just from one scratch from Berserker, which is why Shirou has to take Berserker's next attack for her.
>if Saber didn't have mana to heal then Gil could solve dead orphan into her
Yes except if Gil actually used EA like he normally does Saber would have been instantly vaporized without the chance to heal regardless of whether she has infinite mana like saber alter or not, and no, if you think her armor could block an ex rank NP you're delusional, since not even Gilgamesh's superior armor could do that.

Anyone else feel that this sort of "criticism" toward the fight is a recent thing? Like, people always liked Gil but they never went full fanboy/fujo for him until F/Z got adapted and he kept showing up in more and more stuff

>No she very explicitly couldn't and that was just from one scratch from Berserker, which is why Shirou has to take Berserker's next attack for her.
Unlike Saber alter who could only lie down on the ground Saber here was still standing, weak as she was she could move her body to fight. Also her endurance in that fight was C so it's no wonder why she got demolished by A+ rank strength
>no, if you think her armor could block an ex rank NP you're delusional
My argument here is that Gil's Ea was far more powerful than HF Shirou's K&B yet it didn't actually spill out Saber's organs and break her spine

>Self-inserting as Gudakek

Please, god, no.

>My argument here is that Gil's Ea was far more powerful than HF Shirou's K&B yet it didn't actually spill out Saber's organs and break her spine
Except if you actually read the vn, you would notice it fucked her up even worse than three wing cranes since she was even blinded afterwards. In Sparks Liner High at least alter was able to see that Shirou was dead just fine.

Everyone loves this fight except gilfags.

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