What are the arguments for this not being one of the greatest anime movies of all time?

The movie is good it's a shame the source material is lacking

No Game No Life movie was better.

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This, unironically. Jibril did nothing wrong.

*burns down your studio*

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Train-kun how could you?!

you are actually not worth replying to

>The Shirou in this movie has no reason to trust Illya and go to her for help because he's only met her twice in the movie, in two brief conversations.
as opposed to the four or five times he's met her in the VN
>The flow of the movie was also too inconsistent
buzzwords
>completely indefensible statements presented as fact
You watched this movie, THIS movie, and you have actually come to the conclusion that it is NOT EVEN GOOD. You are a being of pure ideology; just like the dumb bimbo wears her designer purse on her sleeve, you wear your luxury opinions, and just like the dumb bimbo has absolutely no interest in the craft of leatherworking, gemcutting and stitching, you have absolutely no interest in the veracity of your own personal reality
you have probably arrived at the conclusion that as long as you place the most asinine, childishly contrarian and viciously, self-destructively disparaging drivel into a grammatically coherent framework, you can get away with increasing your perceived intellectual and social value through the artificially created scarcity of your designer opinions
there is literally no time on this mortal coil to even begin deconstructing your weasely, worthless obfuscations--and you probably think you're fucking brilliant
you are an actual idiot, and the only thing your education was good for is to teach you how to write an essay about nothing at all, and then believe it because you wrote it

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It's fateshit and there's no arguing against this.

It's shit, therefore it is not one of the greatest anime movies of all time. QED

That it's bad? You just have terrible taste,watch more movies and play another VN

Not enough Illya

Not joking.

It actually deserves the Oscar for best animated movie.

The first one was so bloated and boring I can't bring myself to watch any more. Felt like I was watching the hobbit.

Fried cumbrain

I agree, too many scenes with Kotomine and especially Illya cut. I don't think it would have taken much more time to include those, and it really would have fleshed things out. As it is, unless they somehow splice a lot of things in as flashbacks, her moments will have a lot less impact in the back half. Hell, as it is now, if you were a secondary, you basically have no real indication what adverse affect the arm is already having on Shirou, much less what the true results of removing the shroud would be. And him knowing the outcome makes his decision mean that much more when he commits to that path.

>as opposed to the four or five times he's met her in the VN
Literally proving my point. They cut all of the scenes where the two bonded, which made their relationship feel forced. Shirou and Illya bonding is a CORE VALUE of the fucking route. You can't adapt this route properly if you skip their sibling bond. The movie skips over it; which leads their relationship feeling g fake and unnatural. Why should I believe that Shirou would die for Illya, he he's only talked to her 3 times over the course of two movies. And of those three times she tried to kill him once. Skipping the Illya development was fucking retarded
>buzzwords
False. The beginning of the movie is fast and choppy, it's like the film is going at 2x speed while cutting out scenes. A perfect example would be when Shirou loses his arm. We never see Shirou push Illya away from the shadow, we never see Shirou and Kotomine's conversation regarding the aftermath of the situation, and Shirou never really takes in the fact that Archer was him in the future. Ufotable decided to skip on all of these developments; which led to the movie feeling like scenes were missing.

The last act drags on is far too slow paced, Uftoable even has the audacity to add anime original scenes when they've cut out integral scenes to the route.

The rest of your argument is an ad homenim about me with nothing about the film, so I'm not going to address it.

absolutely all of this has been shown in the movie
just because you are a literal brainlet and are actually incapable of perceiving visual storytelling, like in a movie, because this isn't a book, like the VN, does not grant you the ability to say that these things were totally ommitted from the adaptation, because they were not, beccause i can fucking go look at the scenes and themes you say are lacking
good job for figuring out that a movie is not identical to its novel!

then why did you reply
imagine getting this buttmad over Fateshit

it's not the one with kirie

Ufotable made the movies assuming people had foreknowledge which is a terrible decision

The only good part of Fate are the servants and perhaps Shinji so nah it was pretty bad

>Literally proving my point
meeting her two times is just as likely to cause 'unyielding trust and sibling bonding' as five meetings, especially when these have, in the VN, been shown to be of little significance and mostly involved idle chatter and pretend child's play, you know how i know? because THE VN ITSELF DID NOT HAVE A SCENE FOR MORE THAN HALF OF THOSE MEETINGS YOU CLAIM WERE INSTRUMENTAL TO THE PLOT
>Shirou and Illya bonding is a CORE VALUE of the fucking route.
absolutely delusional
illya is literally the least important part of the arc, a literal Z story about zouken and his crush on justitia, and to then become a suicide bombing deus ex machina, and is essentially shoehorned in for fanservice, you are a fucking idiot
>The beginning of the movie is fast and choppy
buzzwords, he can't help himself
>The rest of your argument is an ad homenim about me with nothing about the film
i'm honestly surprised you figured that out
i also mentioned that your critique of the film literally failed the basic requirement of being an informed opinion, as you continue to demonstrate, clutching on for dear life
kill yourself my man

>then why did you reply
it's called a rhetorical device honey

SAVE THE WHORES

You've got a funny way of spelling "shit", user. Sakura is literally worst girl and that says a lot considering Rin takes old men in the ass for money.

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It's Deen UBW tier.

It's boring as fuck, it's either sakura saying "m-muh senpai, gibe mana trasfer" or shiro saying "m-muh sakura, I need to protect".
Suck my finger fateniggers

Why you so angry? These are legitimate flaws with the movie.
>meeting her two times is just as likely to cause 'unyielding trust and sibling bonding' as five meetings, especially when these have, in the VN, been shown to be of little significance and mostly involved idle chatter and pretend child's play, you know how i know? because THE VN ITSELF DID NOT HAVE A SCENE FOR MORE THAN HALF OF THOSE MEETINGS YOU CLAIM WERE INSTRUMENTAL TO THE PLOT
Your wrong. 5-6 scenes of siblings bonding > 2 scenes of bonding. Especially when those 2 scenes don't even add up to 3 minutes. In literature, you showcase character relationships through dialogues and character interaction. The Shirou-Illya bond is INTERGAL TO THE PLOT. Shirou loses his arm for Illya. When he loses Saber, he believes that he can go to Illya for help. When Shirou realizes Illya is in danger, the only fucking thought he has is being back Illya. He rips of the shroud knowing that it will kill him so that he can save Illya. Illya literally dies for Shirou in the true end. These two have this immensely deep sibling bond that can't be conveyed in two scenes.
Did you even read the VN?

>the concept of pacing is a buzzword

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I thought the movie was great, but I'm incredibly miffed that they pretty much cut out the "pseudo Illya route" element that it originally had considering how integral that is to HF. Especially the shopping scene. Dunno what the fuck that other user is on about.

It was a dumb movie. Stupid edgy shit that for some reason people fellate. FGO is a lot of fun and I've been told that FSN stuff is better, but this proves otherwise. Awful movie.

>Shirou loses his arm for Illya
shirou would lose an arm for kotomine, illya is in no way the only character to show this trait of his, literally every character in the story does, you actual fucking idiot
i cannot believe you are doubling down on this integral to the plot bullshit, you're dead out of ideas aren't you, you fucking robot

Can you define fast and choppy pacing for me, so it can only refer to one specific, easily identifiable thing, please?

>fate stay night
>stupid edgy shit

>FGO
Almost had me there with that bait, user.

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I guess it was too obvious

>Archer - his future self - literally tells Shirou to protect Illya with all his strength
Oh yeah Shirou would definitely lose his arm for Kotomine, Illya's not special.

Fuck off with this downplaying bullshit. Even the movies disprove you.

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If you can understand language then it should be feasible to connect those words with the examples the guy gave and either agree or disagree instead of dismissing it outright for some inane unexplained reason which is what the guy did.

(This entire part was the best scene scene in the movie btw, ignore the incorrect image it's the best CG as an approximation)

Your baiting at this point aren't you? It doesn't matter if Shirou would lose his arm for Kotomine too, stop utilizing whataboutism to deflect from your lack of an argument. Heavens Feel is about Shirou's ideals shifting from save everyone to prioritizing the safety of those he cares about.
Illya's bond with Shirou is a driving force of the route. Sakura and Illya both represent different aspects of love for Shirou. Shirou loves Sakura as a lover and he loves Illya as a sister that he wants to protect.
The earlier parts of Heavens Feel showcase how Shirou went from seeing Illya as an enemy to someone he would die for. Furthermore, Illya also goes through character development and goes from hating him to literally dying for him in the true end. These two are enemies at first but they become siblings through their "trivial interactions" as you like to call them. Those trivial Interactions are what cement this bond and make it believable. In a story, you need details. You can't just describe the main points and tell an enjoyable and believable story.

>Archer - his future self - literally tells Shirou to protect Illya with all his strength
he told him the same thing about sakura, saber and rin, you fucking barrel of laughs
>Fuck off with this downplaying bullshit.
you are fervently pushing the notion that the Heaven's Feel route of Fate/Stay Night is mainly about illya lmao

is there any series with worse secondaries than fate?

It's a sakura movie.

The point is that they could have spent ~10 more minutes here and there and made the scenes and characters and their motivations matter far more, not that the themes are somehow completely lacking.

No one said an adaptation had to be identical to it's source material, you're never going to capture everything an VN has to offer in a couple of movies, but while the adaptations, including UBW, are fine enough on their own, they'll just never offer as complete a story.

Even with that acknowledged, they could have made a few tweaks that would have gone a long way. Not sure why you feel the need to get butthurt over something that straightforward and obvious.

>you are actually noth worth replying to
>types out a massive wall of text in response
I haven't seen this kind of autism in a while and I mean that as a compliment. Keep doing you, user.

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So, you can't define it, then?

i don't think you understand who you're arguing with and against here
i never said that it wasn't a significant part of the narrative, what i am arguing is that illya, specifically, is the FOCUS of HF, which is what the retard i'm arguing with is claiming, and that the fact that all the illya scenes are not presented exhaustively beat-for-beat as in the novel is why the mongoloid claims this is a bad movie that has failed as an adaptation, surely you can't also be this retarded and agree?
the amount of screentime between illya and shirou in the movie being a little shorter than their time in the VN is nothing if not a nitpick, because you can say this about anything at all cut from the VN, especially since they do have all the important dialogue scenes in the movie

Im sure there is but fate secondaries have been so bad in the last half a decade that I dont even know anymore.

...

>you are fervently pushing the notion that the Heaven's Feel route of Fate/Stay Night is mainly about illya lmao

No one's saying that, but you sure like to push the notion that she isn't important even though she is, and guess what? People don't fucking appreciate that when you're denying actual important parts of the VN.

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Doubtful. They seem to take pride in it as well.

>Shirou loses his arm for Illya.
It got caught in an explosion because he was too slow to fully dodge it. The main point of him losing his arm is to prove Sakura's fears of Shirou getting hurt while trying to save her right.
>When he loses Saber, he believes that he can go to Illya for help.
He literally does the exact same thing in UBW. It all boils down to "berserker stronk".
>When Shirou realizes Illya is in danger, the only fucking thought he has is being back Illya. He rips of the shroud knowing that it will kill him so that he can save Illya.
These parts were blatantly shoehorned in from the scrapped Ilya route, and honestly would be better off skipped in the third movie, as they're completely superfluous to the rest of the plot.
>Illya literally dies for Shirou in the true end.
And she will in the movie too.

i think i'd rather see long fight scenes that were glossed over in the VN instead of a still frame with a flapping mouth talking about things i already know, what do you think chief

how do you manage to stay sane

>secondaries
If only.

We've gotten to the point that there are more people that got into the series through FGO than anything else.

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I don't even understand why he's so butthurt, all I did was list some notable issues with the movie and he started sperging out.
>which is what the retard i'm arguing with is claimin
I'm the same person
>what i am arguing is that illya, specifically, is the FOCUS of HF,
I never claimed this. I noted that they cut out all of the scenes where Shirou and Illya bonded. As an adaptation this makes the movies fall flat because their bond isn't developed or even believable. Ufotable didn't have to include all of her scenes but they should've included some of them.
>especially since they do have all the important dialogue scenes in the movie
Irrelevant. The dialogue is hollow because there is no development behind it. Literally the second time that Shirou and Illya talk throughout the course of both movies, Illya is already proclaiming that she is on Shirou's side and counseling him on his ideals and how he should approach the girl he loves. It's not believable.

>they do have all the important dialogue scenes in the movie
>Irrelevant.
absolute fucking muppet

Question, i havent read hf in a decade, was the "Can you keep up with me" scene suppose to be in this movie or the next?
I dont mind, what i mind is them asking stupid question while being a smug frodo about it or turn shit into powerlevel arguments like its dbz.

>Illya is already proclaiming that she is on Shirou's side and counseling him on his ideals and how he should approach the girl he loves
Makes perfect sense, she hated Kiritsugu because he seemingly abandoned her over "muh ideals". Of course she'd be happy to see Shirou do the opposite. You don't need "i see your morning wood uguu" scenes for that. If anything, the unnecessary focus on Ilya was detrimental to the route, as it distracted readers from Sakura and only made them notice her negative sides that the narration overexaggerated.

>It got caught in an explosion because he was too slow to fully dodge it.
Did you even read the VN? Shirou notices that a fatal blow is coming for both Illya and Rin, he chooses Illya and pushes her out of the way of the attack. The scene has nothing do with Sakura's fears and everything to do with Shirou's bond with Illya. The sakura connection doesn't come until later when she sees him with Archer"s arm.
>These parts were blatantly shoehorned in from the scrapped Ilya route, and honestly would be better off skipped in the third movie, as they're completely superfluous to the rest of the plot.
Literally not an argument. These are core parts of the route. Shirou losing his arm and later ripping off the shroud and condemning himself to the plot are NOT "superfluous" to the plot.
>And she will in the movie too.
Why should she the Ufotable version die for Shirou? They haven't even talked for 5 minutes in this adaptation.

>It got caught in an explosion because he was too slow to fully dodge it.
>he was too slow to fully dodge it.
>too slow to dodge it.

He shields Illya deliberately instead of dodging because she's in the way of the Shadow's blast. Did you even read the VN?

Kek, look at this fucking guy, talking like you know shit. Do you know how many people are looking forward to Nine Lives Blade Works on this very board? The amount of threads we've had?

Actually fuck off, and stop same fagging.

Filthy quaternaries.

>fateniggers are mentally ill and explode at even the slightest insuination that their eroge might not be the greatest work of literature to ever exist

What is wrong with you people.

How in anyway was that relevant to the conversation

If I'm not mistaken, that line is during the Nine Lives Blade Works sequence.

the fact that people like you pretend that anime has something so much better to offer than this that this should not even be appreciated by anyone is what's wrong with me, personally

The important scenes are the scenes where Illya tells Shirou to trust him, and also where she steers him into the path of his new ideology.
This developments aren't believable because they never bonded or truly interacted. Illya in this adaptation has no reason to give a shit about Shirou.
Illya didn't even see Shirou abandon Kiritsugu's ideology until after their second interaction, when Shirou was already coming to save her because he trusted and cared about her. My point is that neither Shirou nor Illya should care about each other in this film. This is alarming because they're going to do so much for each other in the next movie, but it won't feel believable because the two never even hung out or bonded

figure it out retard
do you know movies are made by grown ups and that things called editorial decisions and constraints happen?

Keep your low cap snarky diatribe on twatter please.

>read through 2 100+ hr VNs
>watched 20 or so anime adaptations released over the course of 2 decades
>only for the franchise to be reduced to some shitty P2W mobile game with wattpad fanfic-tier writing
>which is also considered canon
i cannot think or comprehend of anything more cucked than being a TMfag

>So, you can't define it, then?
God, only Fatefags can provide such retarded responses that go against any logic just for the sake of thinking they're winning. Thank you for reminding me why I don't bother to engage them.

i'm sorry you think it's snarky diatribe, i could've sworn it perfectly outed you as a memespouting faggot trying to fit in by unironically repeating what the first shitpost they read about the topic said

(nice samefagging there)
Shirou jumps into a hole together with Ilya, but has an arm sticking out of it when the blast reaches it. Read the VN.
>he scene has nothing do with Sakura's fears and everything to do with Shirou's bond with Illya. The sakura connection doesn't come until later when she sees him with Archer"s arm.
Almost as if the scenes are connected to eachother, huh? Day 10 has several interludes with Sakura fretting over Shirou's wellbeing and eventually sending Rider to save them, her hunch turning out to be right.
>Shirou losing his arm and later ripping off the shroud and condemning himself to the plot are NOT "superfluous" to the plot.
He gets a new body anyways, so it is superfluous. Just a device for cheap tension. Turns out that Sakura's situation is more than tense enough if you give her proper focus.
>Why should she the Ufotable version die for Shirou?
Because they're family and he nearly died saving her from Zouken. She also has a fair bit of responsibility for the situation.

Is this a new pasta?
I like the descriptions of whores luxury opinions. Very poemy

I enjoy Fate for what it is, but the fact that you're this defensive about the series is sad, this is literally Yea Forums nigger tier. Also
>anime has something so much better to offer than this that this should not even be appreciated by anyone is what's wrong with me
I'm genuinely curious as to what you're trying to say here. I don't know if you're trying to say that just because better anime and VNs exist that it's okay to enjoy Fate, which is to true, or that it's secretly the topest of class in the medium and only appreciated by 300 iq galaxy brain autists.

I can't hear you over how passive aggressive you are. Rage louder.

>Did you know movies are made by grown ups and that things called editorial decisions and constraints happen?
>i'd rather see cool fights that appeal to my inner child than actual emotional developments between important characters
>In a route where the Masters and their relationships with each other are the crux of the route

Really? That's surprising, sounds more like they're made with adult babies with low attention spans in mind, as well as the "WAHH SAKURA IS TREATED SO BAD AND DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH" crowd.

Not sure if I want to be a part of that.

>Sakura route adaptation is made for people who want more of Sakura
Wow, real shocker.

>(nice samefagging there)
Not the same user, thanks.

>Read the VN.
You should reread the VN user, he tackles her into the hole in an attempt to save her, you know, prioritizing her.

>nice samefagging there
No one is samefagging. Multiple people are just tired of your bs.
>Shirou jumps into a hole together with Ilya
Precisely user. Shirou grabs Illya (this prioritizing her own safety over his) and tries to move her to safety, he consequently loses his arm. You rewording what happened doesn't change the outcome of the situation.
>Almost as if the scenes are connected to eachother, huh? Day 10 has several interludes with Sakura fretting over Shirou's wellbeing and eventually sending Rider to save them, her hunch turning out to be right.
Literally what I said. My point is that Shirou losing his arm was primarily because of Illya. He sought her out for help and then lost his arm protecting her.
>He gets a new body anyways
Based fucking secondary. In the normal end, where Illya doesn't intervene, Shirou fucking dies and doesn't come back. Illya's sacrifice is what saved Shirou's life in the true end and allowed him to get a puppet body. It is impossible for Shirou to achieve a happy ending without Illya dying for him.
>Because they're family and he nearly died saving her from Zouken
The bond isn't believable.

REE
>greentext
this is an adaptation of a niche porno game, and they had the niche porno gamers in mind when adapting the VN, focusing mainly on the visuals of the battles, which are all amazing and the actual purpose of these movies
but i understand why someone that has had their head fuckstarted by wide-net western media might unfortunately preconclude that this is a bad thing
it sounds like you've completely lost the plot and are now arguing with me about nothing in particular

>he tackles her into the hole
Point is, his arm's sticking out because he didn't move it into the hole fast enough. It's not like he jumped in front of her Piccolo-style and absorbed the explosion with his arm.

And don't care about other characters apparently. I'm not sure if I think very highly, or respectfully of those sorts of fans.

Meh, worthy a few chuckles but not subtle enough to go down as a classic worth reposting.

It hacks the VN to pieces and cuts out Illya's scenes.

And my point is he knew fully well that he was putting himself at risk to protect her. You can't just remove context.

and then the movie would be 2 hours and 30 minutes long with half an hour dedicated to slice of life pretending to be a child play in a story, or at least chapter of the story, that literally is not about illya at all
get an original fucking opinion

BULL FUCKING SHIT. He covers Illya with his body

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5 to 10 minutes of Shirou and Illya bonding spread out over the course of two movies would not have ruined the pacing of the movie

>and then the movie would be 2 hours and 30 minutes long with half an hour dedicated to slice of life pretending to be a child play in a story, or at least chapter of the story, that literally is not about illya at all
I'd rather watch that than what we got.
>get an original fucking opinion
Do you actually think that because a critique is widely agreed upon it's wrong?
They cut major scenes out of the story. Pretending that doesn't fuck up the route may be original, but it sure as hell isn't right.

would having more scenes with this tertiary character that in this second part of a trilogy is not involved with the story in any significant way have made this movie go from absolutely terrible to fantastic? if you get an original opinion, you might get to experience a sensation of scathing shame when you spout actual nonsense horse shit

>Multiple people are just tired of your bs.
Nah, you're just butthurt people are calling out Ilya not needing nearly as much screentime as she got in the VN version.
>he consequently loses his arm
Because he was too slow to move it to safety.
>In the normal end, where Illya doesn't intervene, Shirou fucking dies and doesn't come back.
And Nasu realized that ending was bullshit, which is why he changed it from the true one to an alternate one.
>It is impossible for Shirou to achieve a happy ending without Illya dying for him.
And Ilya doesn't need to make pancakes and bicker with Rin to die for him. The majority of her screentime in HF was just generic fanservice transplanted directly from her route.
>The bond isn't believable.
If you've watched Zero and UBW as you should according to Ufotable, thereby knowing their relation, it is.

>Do you actually think that because a critique is widely agreed upon it's wrong?
no, i think this 'critique' is actually a fucking meme, because illya is a meme, and has always been a meme, and it has always been a meme to exaggerate her significance in the fate story, which is why she has her own softcore porn spinoff
then subnormals such as yourself read the shitposts, believed them, and proceeded to spread them like gospel

skips a bunch of stuff, couple of 'fights' and they're all lame, shit route shit heroine

Okay, give Sakura equal (positive) screentime to Saber and Rin in CP, give her a filler episode in F/Z where she gets to play the hero just like Rin, replace Miyu with her as Ilya's sidekick in Prism Ilya, pump out 15 years worth of figures, and then we can talk about favoritism.

30? It would take 15 at most to cover the day scenes, over the course of both films. The first meeting is important, the second can be cut, and the third is crucial since that's when they TALK ABOUT KIRITSUGU.

Very sorry for having an opinion that these were important to the story.

Wow, seriously unbelievable that multiple people take issue with your claims? Are you deaf? Blind? Dumb? Clearly retarded, that's for sure.

>Because he was too slow to move it to safety.
How many times do we have to tell you?????????

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Illya isn't a tertiary character.

Without Illya, no one is there to guide him in his darkest moment, when he contemplates murdering Sakura.
Without Illya the true end is impossible and Shirou dies.
Without Illya Shirou doesn't lose his arm and then later gain Archer's arm, which means he has no way to fight.
You can't deny Illya's influence on this route
>Because he was too slow to move it to safety.
See
>If you've watched Zero and UBW as you should according to Ufotable, thereby knowing their relation, it is.
Those are separate work, Heavens Feel cannot stand on it's own as an adaptation. You yourself even acknowledge that their bond is lackluster in these movies.
>And Nasu realized that ending was bullshit, which is why he changed it from the true one to an alternate one.
Source: your ass
Besides, it doesn't change the fact that Shirou will not live if Illya does not die for him

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It's a fact that he was fast enough to move the rest of his body out of the blast radius, but not his arm. He failed to dodge it completely.

>and the third is crucial since that's when they TALK ABOUT KIRITSUGU.
you mean the one they show in the movie?
also
chimpanzee

Why are you fucking lying. He literally put his body over Illya's, he didn't just jump into a hole with her. He made the consciousness decision to protect her with his own body.
See

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>Illya isn't a tertiary character.
>Without Illya, no one is there to guide him in his darkest moment
hey retard, tertiary characters can signficantly affect the narrative of a story, you know, you actual fucking shit chewing retard?

>I'd rather see fight scenes than the essential character moments!
Of fucking course.

....user. Are you referring to the park scene at night? Because I'm purely talking about the day scenes. Third scene is pic related in my post, the movie's scene is an amalgamation of some dialogue from earlier scenes but the events themselves are original.

user that's not what you're arguing. You know that. You're just avoiding acknowledging why he was in the situation in the first place.

Illya is a secondary character. Learn the fucking meaning of the words that you're using.

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it's a 15 year old franchise with half a dozen anime adaptations and a large franchise, everyone fucking knows the characters
no, we are not talking about day or night scenes, this is just how far you're moved the goalposts since claiming that heaven's feel is centrally about illya to try to defend your retarded pawn shop take

What exactly are you getting at here? The only argument I've been seeing is about whether the movies are better or worse than the VN, not about the quality of Fate in general.

>Without Illya, no one is there to guide him in his darkest moment, when he contemplates murdering Sakura.
Almost as if his love for Sakura is what matters, not someone else telling him what to do.
>Without Illya Shirou doesn't lose his arm and then later gain Archer's arm, which means he has no way to fight.
They didn't skip day 10, though.
>Heavens Feel cannot stand on it's own as an adaptation
And it's not supposed to. The enforced reading order in the VN is there for a reason. HF is the grand finale of the Fate series.

I thought its execution was flawless, desu. I am able to absolutely delete pre-existing biases when I go into something like this (adaptations where I might expect xyz to be included the it isn't or whatever, or demanding something be exactly as it was in my head, unnecessary specific details). I take it exactly as presented without comparing it to some external entity. On that basis alone, it's fantastic and builds upon pt. I beyond my expectations, which were high.

It's amazing to be alive in a time when a mediocre yet imaginative porno gal game used a kusoge mobile game's funding to make a masterpiece like this. It's like Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya in that it could never have existed without a shitload of buildup and presence over the course of years. The Haruhi series and the Fate series were like long edging sessions that led up to the eventual finale orgasms that are the Disappearance and Heaven's Feel movies.

Especially noteworthy is how it has a ton of standard issue anime tropes (ad Fate things we knew were coming) but somehow escalated them and just polished them to perfection and used the existing, long-established facts of the setting to utterly fuck with you. Like Gilgamesh, the demigod and King of Heroes himself getting utterly ruined practically off-camera like it was nothing and without even a dramatic musical cue. That effect and impact would have been impossible for anything else, but Fate has had Gilgamesh around as an imposing presence and the benchmark for "end boss powerhouse" in pretty much every incarnation of it since day 1 and that's like one big foreplay session for him being dismantled by a nobody NPC cook-and-clean kouhai in seconds.

I'll never hear the word "sem...pai..." again in soft tone of voice without flinching.

you should've listened in school instead of chaining yourself to the footnotes on theinfosphere dot org

>everyone fucking knows the characters
That doesn't mean you skip showcasing character development and the relationships that are established over time. It's bad storytelling to skip bonding and jump straight to the consequences and effects of the bond.

No matter how butthurt you get, it doesn't change the fact that they had a safe spot that he was too slow to fully retreat into.

>Too many scenes with Kotomine and Illya were cut out
They weren't cut out. They weren't included. They don't exist. This is the movie and it doesn't have those. And there was no need to add any such things into it and it would not have improved the final film.

I've moved the goalposts? I have no idea what you're fucking talking about anymore.

God, why, WHY are you so adamant that Illya, the sub fucking heroine of the route, isn't important to Heaven's Feel as a whole? Just like Sakura is? Just like Rin is? No one's arguing that she's at the center, just that she's important.

they don't skip it, though, they just don't show all of it exhaustively
>It's bad storytelling
it's bad buzzwords
>skip bonding and jump straight to the consequences and effects of the bond
pretty much the exact same thing happens in the VN, he no longer sees her as a threat after their first meeting, you're full of shit and i hate it

I'm very grateful. Sucks for you I guess.

I don't know why you hate this character so much, but man it is shocking. How long has it been since you actually read the VN and tried to pay attention to the characters' significance in the original work?

>God, why, WHY are you so adamant that Illya, the sub fucking heroine of the route,
because she is no such thing
>No one's arguing that she's at the center, just that she's important.
really? how important? more important than rin? more important than saber? what's that? she LITERALLY got more screentime than both put together, excluding saber's fight scenes?
there is literally no hope for you

its shit

>They didn't skip day 10, though.
I never said they did. You said that Illyaa was irrelevant, I'm explaining why you're fucking wrong.
>And it's not supposed to. The enforced reading order in the VN is there for a reason. HF is the grand finale of the Fate series.
It's an abysmal adaptation because Ufotable even cuts out pivotal character scenes from the route that they're adapting.
user, do you know what it means to COVER someone with your body?
>It's bad buzzwords
Not an argument. Any writer, English major, or teacher will tell you the importance of SHOWING NOT TELLING. Udotable failed to show why Shirou cares about Illya. Ufotable failed to show why Illya cares abour Shirou. Meanwhile ing that later on when they sacrifice themselves for the other, their actions fall flat because they're not believable.
>he no longer sees her as a threat after their first meeting,
Not my fucking point. He sees her as FAMILY. He risks his life for her multiple times because he cares about her
You know damn well that Illya is a secondary character not a tertiary character. Her influence in role in the route is fucking massive

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yeah, illya is of literally zero significance and is pretty much the thinking man's token loli
can you just admit to yourself that you jumped on a poorly thought-out bandwagon whose only purpose is to deride an otherwise excellent film? you will be a better person for it, trust me

>Udotable failed to show why Shirou cares about Illya. Ufotable failed to show why Illya cares abour Shirou.
The VN's extra 5 playing in the park and going for a walk scenes really hammered those in good
fuck off retard you're out in the open

Heavens Feel would be truly kino if the love interest was Illya or Rin

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Their fun times in the park, their discussions about the war and magecraft, and their talks about Kiritsugu are what allowed them to bond as siblings. Stop baiting

>yeah, illya is of literally zero significance
People have pointed out her significance to you ad nauseum in this very thread. You must be refusing to read, if you still don't get it.
>you jumped on a poorly thought-out bandwagon
Fantastic projection, mate.
I posted my response to the OP as my honest view of the film. I wouldn't care if it were universally fucking acclaimed, the fact that they cut out core character-building moments still fucks up the narrative. Maybe you base your viewpoints on bandwagons, but don't go assuming everyone else does.

>someone actually did this edit
The absolute city of rinfags lmao

>their discussions about the war and magecraft,
Those were infodumps that served no other purpouse but that and that's most of the screentime a good 70% of the route.

yes, worldbuilding and exposition about war and magecraft is what ultimately convinced them that they are inseparable and willing to die for each other at a moment's notice
blow your fucking brains out
>People have pointed out her significance to you ad nauseum in this very thread.
yes, they did an extremely poor job of it, especially since they all said the same exact same thing

>especially since they all said the same exact same thing
Almost like it's an obvious fucking fact that you would know if you paid attention to the VN! How are you this deep in denial? How is it fucking possible to deny the flow of the story to this degree? Are you delusional?

>yes, worldbuilding and exposition about war and magecraft is what ultimately convinced them that they are inseparable and willing to die for each other at a moment's notice
No, but them talking about trivial shit and just having fun is what allowed them to build that bond. That's not even mention the serious shit that they actually talked about like Kiritsugu

>That's not even mention the serious shit that they actually talked about like Kiritsugu
They talk about Kiritsugu, then the movie goes and adds the Taiga scene so Ilya gets closure about Kiritsugu while also giving Taiga something to do.

If five people all told you that the sky was blue, would you say they needed to get original opinions, and that they couldn't convince you because they were all saying the same thing?

Even as a huge Ilyafag, I can't deny that she was basically a leech when it came to HF. She gets a friendship set up with Shirou in Fate, which is abruptly cut off for the obligatory Berserker arc, followed by her becoming irrelevant after it when Gilgamesh appears, leaving the player wishing they could properly gain her onto their side and have her be relevant.

This wish is granted, not in her route, but Sakura's. Meanwhile, Sakura's connection to Shirou was meant to be set up as a tragedy in Ilya's route to get you excited about saving her in her route, which would then challenge you with her dark aspects. However, due to Ilya's route being scrapped but combined with Sakura's, you get the positive Ilya buildup from the Ilya route, but skip right to the challenging negative Sakura parts from her original solo route. This results in the story being heavily stacked against Sakura in her own route.

With that in mind, it's no wonder HF and Sakura were so poorly received at first, which is why downplaying Ilya's role so that Sakura can get to shine is crucial to the reception of HF. Don't blame Sudou for making HF a Sakura route, blame Nasu for not making a proper Ilya route.

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Illya was given closure, true, but that is still besides the point. My beef is with Udotable failing to portray a believable relationship between Illya and Shirou

>because she is no such thing
Top right: sub heroine.
Taiga doesn't have this.
Fuck off.

>there is literally no hope for you
In Heaven's Feel?
More important than Rin? Certainly not, but equally important as part of the sibling dynamic which is showcased in the route and films? Yes.
Saber? Someone Shirou barely knew when she was taken? And is now a walking destruction machine with no character? Yes.

No one's making the arguments you're making user, they're all strawmen. Get help.

The person Shirou bonds with and protects as the last person related to his foster father? Actually get real.

Illya fags have consistent arguments? What? Wow, almost like you might be the one talking fallacies.

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can you fucking imagine that every single post in this thread except me and like two other people is defending the notion that HF is ABOUT illya

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT YOU ABSOLUTE RETARD

Don't put words in our mouth. Literally no one said that HF is Illya's route or that she is more important than Sakura. We pointed out that she is a core part of the route, and that you can't properly tell the story without accurately portraying her relationship with Shirou.

but his foster father isn't important because he gets two frames of screen time and is just barely a tertiary character, despite being the catalyst for the entire story of fate/stay night, but right, tertiary characters can't also be important, because illya is important but also got a shorter amount of time(in this chapter of the arc that literally does not involve her in any way) please remember that this is literally your argument

Strawman harder, you fuckhead. Nobody's making that claim.
Do you know what a fucking sub-heroine is? Do you understand the concept of a character being important without being the most important person in the story? Can you grasp it?

>Shirou and Illya bonding is a CORE VALUE of the fucking route

stop this guys

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Theres like 8 minutes of Illya scenes, I'm sure around 5 of those are with Shirou.

Literally everything you said was explicit in the movie but you speedwatched, or was obvious and there was more than enough information for a decent IQ to follow, or else just isn't part of the movie because it's not needed, was not created in the film by choice (pacing, focus, etc.) or else was a mess in the VN to begin with (a flawed work).

Case in point, any average person with 0 prior knowledge immediately, easily follows why Shirou realized Sakura's missing and immediately hunts down Shinji. If they'd gone further to spoonfeed it, you'd have bitched about it. There has been 2 hours of setup that Shinji beats her, he has threatened them both, she hangs at the Emiya's to avoid him, and Shinji already came to the Emiya household, hit her and tried to start a fistfight right there in the doorway. If YOU came home in that same situation (and aren't a mouthbreather), the first place your mind would obviously go is FUCKING SHINJI. With outrage, as has been, again, established repeatedly as his response to injustice. He also has choked it down till this point for Sakura's sake and to keep the peace but clearly hit a boiling point.

Your problem is that you just want to see the entire and exact goddamn VN repeated onscreen only with more frames in the pictures and more voice acting. And you want your having speedread a summary of the VN to be rewarded by letting you be smugger and "in the know" but it doesn't gaf about that and is just worried about being the best movie it can be.

The one (uno) point you do have is that Illya being a pal seems a bit sudden, to the point that the people I know who have very little existing Fate knowledge I saw it in the theater with all think she's super suspicious and is going to fuck Shirou over. She changed too quick. Obviously, now sheknows the truth about her dad which changes everything but the movie kept that a mystery by hiding her response to overhearing the news to put a cliffhanger on her character.

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Kiritsugu is in about 3 scenes + a flashback, he is a tertiary character because he isn't a main character.
Ilya meanwhile is a secondary character. She has several scenes where she and Shirou talk, she dies for Shirou, and Shirou sacrifices himself for her. Illya has a massive presence in the route because she is one of the heroines of the route.
You're illiterate. They're bonding is WHY Shirou uses his body to protect her. It's why Illya decides to die for him. I'm ot saying the route is about Illya, I'm saying that she is an important part of the route.

>she dies for Shirou, and Shirou sacrifices himself for her
so does kiritsugu FUCKING LMAO good job you fucking molerat

No they absolutely did cur out important scenes. Take for instance the scene where Shioru loses his arm. Kotomine doesn't hammer into Shirou the importance of the shroud and the dangers of taking it off. Shirou doesn't reflect on Archer's death or the fact that archer is him from the future. Rin doesn't even respond to Archer being fucking dead. This all skimmed over, because we immediately jump from Shirou losing his arm to him and Rin talking in the shed at his house.

>Your problem is that you just want to see the entire and exact goddamn VN repeated onscreen only with more frames
No. I want an adaptation that carries over the core scenes and character relationships.
>Your problem is that you just want to see the entire and exact goddamn VN repeated onscreen only with more frames
Literally my point

Honest question: what are you getting out of this? Why are you so dedicated to denying Illya's importance to the route? What's your motivation to just turn a blind eye to major plot points and claim they're irrelevant?
Explain yourself, user.

>so does kiritsugu FUCKING LMAO good job you fucking molerat
Kiritsugu did not die for Shirou. He was already dying from the grail taint. He passed away when Shirou said that he would carry on his dream because that put his heart at ease.
That's beside the point though. Illya is in numerous scenes throughout heavens feel. Shirou and Illya interact about 5 times in the park; then Illya offers him counsel outside of the church, and then Shirou goes to Illya for help; and then Shirou sacrifices his own body to save her, and then Illya moves in with shirou, and then Illy Shirou and Rin team up, and then Illya fucking dies for Shirou. Her prescense in the route is massive, the only people with a bigger role than her are Kotomine, Shirou, Zouken, and Sakura.

I'm one hundred percent convinced that he's either baiting or mentally ill at this point.

>Kotomine doesn't hammer into Shirou the importance of the shroud and the dangers of taking it off.
this is shown in the movie, try watching it!
>No. I want an adaptation that carries over the core scenes and character relationships.
we'll i'm glad to say that you are in luck, the movie adaptation does exactly this, to a fault
or were the worldbuilding about magecraft and the einzberns and slice of life scenes absolutely vital to the understand the overarching narrative of this story that is actually about sakura, and not about illya, lest we agee with the torrent of actual maniacs in this thread claiming otherwise
illya got four or five whole scenes, this is absolutely sufficient for a character of illya's relevance to the plot in this chapter, you are just repeating an actually retarded shitpost(because everyone else is and you're a fucking lizard brain) because you have never, and refuse to, think about it objectively
i cannot believe you are capable of literally quoting the instant you defeated your own argument with nary a shred of self-awareness, you fucking fascinate me, just stop!
>Why are you so dedicated to denying Illya's importance to the route?
i'm not, i'm saying that she got an adequate amount of screentime for a tertiary character, that none of her crucial scenes were skipped at all, and that everything that was skipped was purely superfluous fluff, just like it was in the VN
is this hard for you to understand? that you're nitpicking about actually fucking nothing regarding a minor character that doesn't even have a role in the story yet? moreover, you are using this bullshit nonargument to declare that THE ENTIRE MOVIE IS RUINED BY IT? do you really think i'm the insane one here?

Hilariously cluelessly overstated, but it is important to the end (assuming the movies take time to focus on that at all, which is not something you should take as a given because that's an E plot at most here). Even one more scene would have been enough if done right. However this was not an oversight or an accident. Since it's a movie with a shitload of time to develop things yet ironically still needs to maintain some sort of focus rather than run all over the place more than it has to already, it's focused more and more on the 2-person core of Heaven's Feel. Part of why a VN is a thing in the first place and why they're unique is that you can spend hours and hours on what would be extraneous shit in other mediums and have time to develop it and make it worthwhile. F/SN alone has so many things going on that you could make whole movies out of some of the less central stories.

The reason Illya does not have more scenes of her bonding, and she just sort of integrates herself into the unit with no fanfare is very deliberate. It definitely feels a bit like you're missing something, her motives are questionable, it's impossible to tell how intelligent and scheming vs. childlike she really is (it could be 100% fake niceness quite plausibly). Remember, her whole backstory with Kiritsugu is only just now being given to the audience for the first time at the end of pt II. She overhears it and rather than the shots of her looking happy or teary-eyed with joy or something, we get cockblocked from seeing her real reaction, we don't know what she thinks, and then the movie leaves her behind for the mind rape and shit truly hitting the fan, leaving Illya forgotten. She's a deliberate loose end at the close of the movie. This is a good move because it means she has her own story going on and tension and interest rather than being in a "finished", momentum-free state.

She just was too damn psycho and turned on a dime. Dat face.

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Bros... Are they going to at least give us a scuffed Sparks Linear High?

They have to right?

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Probably a secondary who is just hellbent on convincing himself that the movies are perfect.

>i'm not
Absolutely false. You've repeatedly claimed that she's "literally" or "totally" irrelevant to the plot. This is probably and obviously untrue.
WHY

I fucking can't...you must be mentally Ill, other that or you're baiting. Regardless, I can't bare to waste my time with someone who ignores facts and continues to move the goalposts. I'm fucking done arguing with your crazy ass

No they won't

>probably
Motherfucker. Provably. I meant to type provably.

>No they absolutely did cur out important scenes.
Scenes cannot be cut from the movie. They fail to exist in the movie. To wit, any moron easily gets that taking the shroud off is catastrophic. He's warned, Rin talks about it (specifically >if only he knew how bad things really are.jpg), and there is an entire scene where he pulls it up just a little bit to poke at it and almost dies, complete with a dream or vision where he's floating in space and shit. He is sinking in the bathtub with bluescreen-of-death eyes. It cannot be more clear to a single person watching. It has every "releasing this power will have immesurable and mega fucked dire consquences" flag all over it. Couldn't be clearer and not a person who saw it didn't get it. You just mean "they didn't do it exactly like I know from what I remember of the VN transcript". If anything, they focused on it more than necessary but evidently they wanted to make damn sure nobody forgets that it's a seal, not a band-aid.

i think they've handled everything perfectly myself, given the branching nature of VN narratives, i fail to see how they could've done a better job, which is a really great relief to me given how bad japanese directors usually are at anything pacing-related
i don't agree about the illya part though, her motives were never really clear in the VN either, the enemy that is also inexplicably aiding the main character is her archetype, it has never been different in any of the VN routes and the mystery of her friendliness was played heavily upon, basically almost to the end
i think the fact that everyone knows the lore so well is tinting people's glasses
i'm telling you this is just a subconscious board culture thing, it's just wrong

>>Your problem is that you just want to see the entire and exact goddamn VN repeated onscreen only with more frames
>Literally my point
Found your core mental flaw right there. What a pile of shit movie you desire. Ugh.

>The solution to the final conflict of the story is an E plot
Oh, you want the story to end out of nowhere due to a situation that was never established or set up. I can see you'd fit right in if you went to Hollywood.

What do you guys think about sudou whitewashing sakura to the point that there isn't really a moral dilemma for shirou anymore? The park scene and the knife scene felt out of place with the direction the movies are going.

>there isn't really a moral dilemma for shirou anymore?
>kill sakura or a ton of people will keep dying
That was a fine moral dilemma for him.

>plots can't interconnect
>minor characters and minor situations that are given little literary focus cannot have significant or pivotal roles in the narrative
your IQ is definitely below 90

You're never getting your Illya route, Satan. Deal with it. Or more Tsukihime.

feels bad man

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Honestly I just don't think he liked her role in the route in the first place.

>is this hard for you to understand? that you're nitpicking about actually fucking nothing regarding a minor character that doesn't even have a role in the story yet? moreover, you are using this bullshit nonargument to declare that THE ENTIRE MOVIE IS RUINED BY IT? do you really think i'm the insane one here?
If that's what they enjoyed about the route in the first place, I think that's an entirely valid complaint to make.

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? The shadow killed 60 people and Zouken told Shirou that he couldn't control it any more and that he needed to kill Sakura or dozens would die every day until the war ended
The movie still didn't reflect on Shirou realizing that Archer was him from the future.

What a heated thread. Let me get this out of the way, I think Sakura is okay. Not particularly a fan of her, but don't hate her either. I'm also a fairly decent Illya fan. Probably my second favorite character after Saber.

I thought the movie was probably a low to mid 9 for me. 30+ hours to 5.5 hours is what these movies are trying to do. I'm not saying that's the wisest decision, but you have to cut a lot of content to make it happen. You can't have all the Illya scenes, all the kirei scenes, all the other character bonding scenes without making it much longer or adding way too many quick scenes such it breaks up the pacing this condensed as hell movie even more.

This movie was able to accomplish the main goals of the route in terms of story, illya and sakura points, etc in a constrained time window. Should they have played out the shopping scene? Maybe. I'd also argue that it may have felt forced after the events that took place just prior and showing the passage of time worked decently well if you're not a secondary.

In the end, I'm not completely satisfied with it from an adaptation perspective. Had they added the arm replacement scene, you could have had the shopping scene and a more drawn out healing/ sword creation stuff I think it would have been nearly perfect (the weakest point being the first film didn't do enough to help it).

But this is still not breaking the route. This movie does a lot right. And it's pretty damn enjoyable.

stop playing devil's advocate for retards that are all repeating the exact same incorrect criticism, they are not categorizing this as a subjective opinion that is separate to their overall assessment, they are saying that the movie, objectively, is a failure because they didn't get 5 more minutes of illya, they are not saying that they didn't enjoy the movie personally, they are saying that the movie is objectively terrible and a failure because of this

No. People dislike that Ufotable failed to potray a believable bond between Illya and Shirou. 5 to 10 more minutes spread out over these two films would have improved the pacing and character developments and relationships.

illya is a minor character that only becomes the main focus of the plot at the very end of the novel, she was given 5 minutes, she did not need another 5, you are deliberately avoiding the nature of the scenes that have been cut out as well, because they are FAN SERVICE. THEY WERE FAN SERVICE, EVEN IN THE VN.

>stop playing devil's advocate
Nah.

>they are saying that the movie, objectively, is a failure because they didn't get 5 more minutes of illya, they are not saying that they didn't enjoy the movie personally, they are saying that the movie is objectively terrible and a failure because of this
Have you been on any board here? This is *what happens* when something does something anons dislike here. It's shit talked and dismissed. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it's what happens. In fact this isn't even just a Yea Forums thing, this is what happens *on the internet*. Why are you fighting this? It's basically a meme. You're not going to change anyone's opinions over a fucking meme.

>ctrl F objective
>3 results
All by you. Where are people claiming anything but opinion?

How is it incorrect? It's the same kind of criticism the UBW movie gets.

>character development and bonding is fanservice

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you gotcha me good
>Why are you fighting this?
because it's cancer
>You're not going to change anyone's opinions over a fucking meme.
donald trump

>FAN SERVICE. THEY WERE FAN SERVICE, EVEN IN THE VN.
False. Those scenes are why the two are so adamant about protecting each other.

If anything, he went out of his way to be daring with emphasizing the virgin line even compared to the VN, keeping in the odd parts on day 10 where Angra Mainyu somehow possesses her mouth early on and toning down a lot of the Rin scenes that justified Sakura's wrath and descent into darkness. All Sudou really did was get rid of the contrived and misleading writing where every character and the narrator made ridiculous leaps in logic to make ominous hyperbolic statements about Sakura being a selfish murderer who needs to atone for each breath she takes.

>tertiaries can't count

*THAT* is bullshit however. Illya and Shirou having an actual heart to heart conversation about Kiritsugu *confirming Shirou's realization that Illya is Kiritsugu's daughter* was not fanservice.

Neither was Shirou reaching out his hand to ask Illya to live with him after the shopping scene, despite that fact he's devoted to Sakura, this showcased Shirou cared for Illya greatly, not even just as Kiritsugu's son. These were *development* and it is JUSTIFIED that people take issue with them not being in the film.

>character development
name a character trait that was revealed about illya in the scenes cut from the novel, that is also completely absent from all the scenes shown in the movie
>bonding
stop saying this word like it has any meaning whatsoever
the scene where they go shopping is the one scene where you realized yeah those two are going to die for each other kill yourself

At least we can agree sakura's whitewashing ruined the tone of the movie.

Why does Sakura feel sorry for Shinji who abused her, mentally and physically? And why was she so distraught over killing him?

I dunno, I think if you were to follow the throughline from her in the opening acts of Zero right up to where the movie left her, it's very consistent and clear but she is by nature very volatile, conflicted and confused. I don't think there is anything inhuman about her feelings or motives at this point. Her path is normal child>hatebeast psychopath yet confused>shellshocked at the revelation>healed and made human again. "Normal" relative to fucked-up artificial monstrous magebabies, obviously. She starts as an innocent, loving kid and turns back into an innocent loving kid. Which is a theme in Heaven's Feel and is there to contrast with Sakura, who is "not a nice person" and is constantly hiding vile secrets that lead her into balls-to-the-walls purest evil. She starts off as an innocent child, collapses into herself for survival, then completely explodes and never becomes an innocent child again and is only saved through the sacrifice of others.

Every character is FATEd from a pure shit beginning in hell nearly from birth and the story is how they deal with their predestination, be it Rin's scumbag mage-world expectations and the weight on her, Shirou's bleak future and cycle of hell with no end continuing before he was even born, Sakura's utter defilement from childhood that is unrelenting, and Illya's innocence being stolen away and her struggle to sort that out vs. just falling to the dark side. Or obviously Seibah's attempt at repeating shit until she can redeem herself in her own eyes.

Illya IS important to F/SN as a VN and overall. But she is not as important in this movie because not everyone can be. It's just not her story this time around as much as it could be. She is frankly a distraction if we see her too much. The movie is NOT collecting her points and triggering her flags. It has to make choices and halfassing it by cramming in every thing is a mistake. Purism is a mistake and cannot make a passable movie and never has.

>sakura's whitewashing
The only character that got whitewashed was rin, the fuck are you smoking

Shinji is based and did nothing wrong. Sakura knows this. Even at the end when she is screaming at rin and blaming her problems on tokiomi, zouken, and rin, she never mentions Shinji because he's just a victim.

>stop saying this word like it has any meaning whatsoever
pic related
>the scene where they go shopping is the one scene where you realized yeah those two are going to die for each other kill yourself
No, but the 4-5 days where the bonded built a friendship between them

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>WHO DO YOU PREFER, RIN OR ILYA?!
>uh, sak-
>THE SELFISH SLUT SELFISHLY AND SLUTTILY BLINKED WITH THE EYES THAT HAD WITNESSED MASS MURDERER FROM UP FRONT, SURELY THINGS WEREN'T GOING TO END WELL. NOW EAT ILYA'S PANCAKES AND LISTEN TO RIN'S CONFESSION THAT SHE CONVENIENTLY WITHHELD IN UBW

are you a fucking retard?
you get a bad end if you don’t interact with her in the VN the first two times.
she cares for you more than any other heroine even before consuming archer (park scene)
you practically sacrifice your life to save her when you ally with kotomine
she tried sacrificing herself several times against Berserker in the forest
When you ask her to live together she always says no because her life is short but Shirou knows the truth and gets angry at her
Even if you don’t limit break you get normal end if you don’t have enough illya points

You secondaries are fucking retarded go read the VN before you type more dumbass comments

Take your meds and go to sleep. Not even Shinjifags are this insane.

not to mention you only project Zeltretch because Illya who has the memories of Justeaze helps you

>minor characters can't have significant roles in the plot
do you have any idea how many people have said this retarded shit before you?

That's pretty much the writing of day 10-13 in a nutshell, though. The movies did great to salvage that trainwreck.

The one that got whitewashed is rin, secondary

That's what happens when you cut like 80% of her scenes.

whitewashing in this context meaning?

She's a literal McGuffin in the VN, dipstick. If she was written out entirely and replaced with some other plot device, I'd be sad because I'm an Illya fan, but she's just not inherently required to be there. You also need to remember that we have at least 1/3 of this left and if they are going to build her up more to try to pay that off, it's smarter to do so closer to wen it happens, not hours beforehand when the emotion is not as fresh. Her coming to terms with having not been abandoned and actual acceptance is coming up. That will be our Illya climax that makes her really matter. If they continue with the adroitness they have so far, it will be a crying moment that leads up to more crying during her conclusion.

Rin has been sidelined even more (and more than she had to be per the VN) but she is also meant to FEEL sidelined as well. Things that seemed real important and central have started seeming more and more ignored and neglected by Shirou for some reason. HMMMMMMMM.

Why is it a trainwreck?

>name a character trait that was revealed about illya in the scenes cut from the novel, that is also completely absent from all the scenes shown in the movie
I wouldn't say the movies have showcased Illya's loneliness very well, things which were showcased in both of these scenes.

>stop saying this word like it has any meaning whatsoever
Jesus, just say you don't care about the relationship already.

>the scene where they go shopping is the one scene where you realized yeah those two are going to die for each other kill yourself
Nope, but it is the scene where you realize one can't be saved if the other lives. It's also set up for Shirou to fight as hard as he can to save her when Illya is taken by Sakura. She tells him she won't live, he denies this. This is *why* he fights as hard as he does *why* remembers and screams her name as she sacrifices herself for him.

Are you seriously saying that meant nothing?

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How old is the average Fatefag these days? 14-17 years old?

Meaning cutting literally all of her scenes of her being a cunt or trashtalking sakura because of the autism she inherited from tokiomi

The worst part is that the threads were even worse in the early days.

>If she was written out entirely and replaced with some other plot device, I'd be sad because I'm an Illya fan, but she's just not inherently required to be there
That applies to every character.

I was 14 when I started read the VN years ago. I'd the average fatefag is between 17-25 these days. I'm of course talking about the core fanbase and not the F/GO fanbase though

>Jesus, just say you don't care about the relationship already.
i care very much about their relationship
i especially like how it is clearly shown, from their first meeting, that there is some kind of deep link between these two characters and that they have some sort of history, that did not in any way require 5 slice of life scenes for me to get, because by the time we got to those slice of life scenes this link has already been made completely apparent in the story
i am not going to let you pretend that you are not a retard, i'm sorry, you are one, you will continue grasping at straws and i will just sit here counting them

>tfw nasu can't write like this anymore
fucking hurts bros, can't believe he hasn't even come close to writing anything as good as hf or kohakus route

>minor characters can’t have significant roles in the plot
you’re retarded for not knowing what minor is.
shinji is a minor character.
lancer is a minor character.
caster is a minor character.
fucking berserker and saber are minor characters until they touch mud.
Illya/Kotomine are not minor characters.

There is a reason they tell you that HF is Illya’s spotlight in the tiger dojo’s in UBW.

Go play the VN instead of using the 4 hours of anime you have watched as your reference.

Because the writing is blatantly biased against the heroine of the route while shoving side characters in your face.

Dude, Kirei's shroud infodump is not even fucking close to being part of "core scenes and character relationships".Illya got screwed over partly because many of her scenes involve heavy infodumps and because of the movies' runtime.

But what is wrong with that if that's what they author wanted to do?

Do yourself a favour by grabbing a dictionary and educate yourself on normal English words you dyslexic retard

why ants and a moth?

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symbolism

>There is a reason they tell you that HF is Illya’s spotlight in the tiger dojo’s in UBW
because that's where most of her lines are, and it's where she actually does something by herself that affects the plot instead of being an accessory to berserker or an object of interest for other characters?
you realize illya, in the VN, has lines comparable in number to fujimura, right, you fucking cumbrain?

This. There was a time where being a 06 secondary worshipping UBW before even reading it due to Archer's filler fight against Berserker and shitposting against Sakura and HF based on translated spoilers from Japanese wikis was the norm.

The movie wasn't even 2 hours long.

>Nasu: Its important people don't perceive sakura as an antagonist.
>What the writer wanted to do

how does webster's dictionary define fast and choppy pacing and bad storytelling, when used on their own in a single sentence, without any further clarification?
actually fucking kill yourself there is no future with you in it

Honestly I think we just got on the wrong foot, we're too busy breaking down and debating each other's points coming from the start of this conversation that we've missed what you're saying overall.

I still don't think it's wrong to want more in an adaptation, but you're not wrong that overall the core themes of characters have been established and focused on very well. Your point on Rin being meant to feel sidelined really hit me in this way, as well as Illya's development being built up for an emotional climax.

It's hard to break away from the expectation that comes from adaptations that you want to see certain scenes adapted, but you have put a lot into perspective, thank you. I'm sorry now to think I made so many assumptions about you, when it's clear you've been thinking about this logically.

Like I said, I think we got off on the wrong foot. So can we all put this aside? As fellow Illya fans?

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Who was it that held a gun to nasu's head and made him write those parts of the VN?

The movies so far have been pitch perfect but make no mistake. There are a dozen approaches they could have taken and I am sure at least one or two would have been good. Scripts got discarded, good alternate scenes, great scenes were written and probably storyboarded but ultimately dropped. There could be an Earth 2 where the movie is a little lighter or more action-oriented or with more mystery and backstory about mages and much, much more Illya (and Rin for that matter).

But they made a ballsy move that is paying off bigtime by zeroing in on the very core essence of what makes HF what it is, what makes it distinct from other Fate stuff and FS/N routes and (importantly) existing Fate anime. Which is that the real thrust of HF is Sakura and her mental state and Shirou's decisions to throw every damn other thing in the world aside in his attempt to be a hero of justice for ONE person in the world above all else. This movie practically takes place in her mind, we are drawn further and further into her web. Even the servant fights become increasingly sidelined and the ones we have, while killer, are tainted with an unpleasant feeling and a horror and have bleak, shocking endings, usually unceremoniously. To emphasize that servant battles, which till now have been the peak of conflict and miniature cataclysms, are now IRRELEVANT by comparison to one meek teenage girl's inner suffering.

HF is a story about how one person's pain makes a whole world black to that person. And in Fate, a person can bring that blackness to the whole world. Even legendary heroes of ultimate light and meaning are nothing in the face of that.

And it's the final piece of Kiritsugu's dilemma about balancing the scales. He always tried to cause the least net suffering for the maximum good. Shirou has tried all the variations of that before now and arrived at "what if you let the maximum suffering happen to just save one person?"

Don't know about the average, but I'm 23.

I find funny when one of the autists in these threads uses as an argument that sakura should be hated because the old threads that were filled with literal retards hated her because mistranslated spoilers of the route and the bias they had against heaven's feel when going into it. And that because of that people should keep hating her or heaven's feel route.

This has already been exhaustively and insightfully destroyed logically. The movie is a billion steps ahead of you.

>has lines comparable in number to fujimura

day 15/day16 where the bulk of the content is, has Illya explain
>shirous memory loss
>projection
>zeltretch
>third magic
>lesser grail/greater grail

I’ve told you 2 times to go read the VN.
Actually read it and don’t speed read it because it sounds like something you would do.

*because of that

ok cuckold

Reminder that nasu had no input I'm the movie and didn't even supervise it.

>This has already been exhaustively and insightfully destroyed logically
It wasn't
>The movie is a billion steps ahead of you.
How so?

>How so?
It cut the parts that made sakura look bad and removed all her competition.

Amazing argument as always, though I am shocked that you didn't add wormslut in your post

>cumbrain
How did you end up here?

Considering how butthurt he proceeded to get about the negative reception Sakura and HF got, it clearly was a poor move on his part. If he had owned it and gone "meh, HF is a pleb filter", that would be one thing, but he had a fullblown meltdown spiting her about it in passive-aggressive ways for nearly 10 years.

>It cuts the parts that made sakura look bad
It cuts the parts that made rin look bad*
>and removed all her competition
What competition, the fuck are you talking about.

Takeuchi was the one who made him write lines like her being like an educated prostitute, at least.

....yeah I didn't expect that to work either.

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by your logic
>Gilgamesh is a minor character in fate route
>Caster is a minor character in UBW route
>Sakura is a main character in Fate/UBW

They are integral to the main plot and are recurring to the main plot, this means they are not a minor character.

He must feel like Van Gogh if he lived enough now that heaven's feel is considered peak fate in nipland and competes with most liked route against UBW here as well

he knows he is wrong so he needs to throw buzzwords

>fate/stay night literally cannot exist as a story without mentions of third magic, explanations of adverse side effects of plot devices, zelretch, third magic, and technobabble about grail mechanics
just fucking stop
just, stop

Didn't read your post because it was too long

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for me it's parvati

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Last Encore is how anime supervised by him turns out. Guess we dodged a bullet there.

It sure cuts sakura getting manjew'd and saying if shirou looses a arm or a leg he won't go out anymore and be safe at home.
But it totally doesn't cut all the scenes of rin acting like a massive cunt.

user I really don't understand how you can consider Illya a minor character to Heaven's Feel, especially if you like her. The movie's don't even treat her as a minor character now that she's entered the story proper.

Remember when he rated sakura as his favourite heroine a long time ago but then when sakura was finally getting good reception in 2012 or so started to come out of the closet and started to sakurafag 24/7?

Not him but I read it and you're based.

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>third magic
yes because that’s how Shirou survives True End and how Angra Mainyu is getting his physical form
>Zeltretch
yes because that’s how Rin fought Sakura using Zeltretch and Secong Magic against Sakura and third magic.
Rin even brings up in True End how they are all strong magus because Sakura has Third Magic, Rin has Second Magic, Shirou is living truth of the third magic and UBW/projection
>technobable about grail mechanics
You mean how Kotomine is still alive
You mean how Sakura has Rider in true end
You mean how Sakura is able to use third magic
You mean why the fucking holy grail takes place??????
lesser grail/greater grail it’s the one of the main world building mechanics in this route

You know what, I’m pretty sure you are acting like a retard on purpose to get me to explain the plot to you.
Just stick to the gachagame, I’m sure seeing your main characters in there swimsuits is much more exciting than reading the fucking VN to you

i don't know who you are and which posts are and are not yours, i replied to a person saying that the movie was terrible because illya, alleged the main focus of the entire story by the person i was replying to, did not have every minor slice of life shown in the movie adaptation, which then lured in a bunch of simpletons with prefabricated opininos that all parroted the same criticism, with varying degrees of extremism, yet all completely in disagreement with me when i say that the amount of screen time given to this minor character in a chapter of the story that does not involve her at all is perfectly adequate and that claiming that this lack of flavour scenes was some sort of glaring flaw in the movie, enough for people to dislike the entire movie, despite the entire movie literally not being about her
this is the entirety of my argument, and everyone that disagrees with it is just wrong
i'm glad you were able to be persuaded by my arguments and i do not see why you are assuming there is any personal hostility involved when discussing a cartoon on a cartoon forum, maybe that was your first mistake

It has the couple of scenes of Sakura acting like a cunt.
And Rin is only a cunt in the beginning, because the conflict doesn't work otherwise, she has to be in support of killing sakura.

Least favourite heroine I meant

Yes being a movie, rather than just having characters exposition dump or explain to us how we're supposed to feel about her and whether she needs to die, we see it all in glorious motion and the movie does everything anime format can do to make us feel it for ourselves. And make our own decision about her. And even lets us think one thing, then get more info and see more, which makes you question what seemed clear. To do otherwise is a waste of the format of a movie over a VN (or book or manga etc.). What a GOOD adaptation does and this is mandatory, is flex the muscles of its particular medium. There's no reason to adapt it otherwise. None.

I did also see a whole lot of Sakura getting cucked, which is what triggers what happens (while by no means being the real reason, it was going to happen sooner or later, this is stated). Even since early on in the first film, this is happening. I recommend a second watch with this in mind. In fact these movies reward a rewatch quite a bit. They're very dense. In particular, just watch Sakura's face every. single. time. Shirou talks to another girl, praises another girl, KNOWS about another girl, goes somewhere with one. She is downright possessive but too meek to do anything about it (and certainly knows she's being unreasonable, we know this because when the big one happens when she hears the pole vault story from fucking Rin while eavesdropping, she says "not THIS" iow there've been plenty of other things and this is a breaking point she can't cope with this time).

Bonus round: she started doing this back in UBW...it's completely seamless and consistent down to the exact expressions she makes. The camera just never focuses on her face, or at least doesn't linger for more than a half second, or is ambiguous. But it's there. If I wasn't a lazy fuck and drawing an aged-up Illya lewd right now I'd love to go through and screencap it all and make a collage. Maybe someone eventually will.

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>ITT: People who'v never read F/SN or F/HA give their opinion on an adaptation.

I'm still waiting for it.

Kirei vs Assassin.

I can feel it, I'm gonna cream.

But it was dealt with in the film and is in progress. Illya just found out by overhearing Taiga and did not process it yet, which was crystal clear and you have been educated repeatedly on this.

You didn't watch the movie. Admit it.

My post was sarcastic, user

>I can feel it, I'm gonna cream
user, please you the word cum since cream is usually associated with food. Thanks desu

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The cream of the LORD shall FLOW as soon as part 3 is here, and there's nothing you can do about it.

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>Illya just found out by overhearing Taiga
I found this scene so hamfisted and it wasn't really satisfying for me the first time I watched the film and even on a second rewatch when the BDs came out, my feelings still didnt change on that scene.

Where was Taiga? Why did she randomly decide to show up just to give Sakura a heart to heart conversation?

How do you know he doesn't ejaculate cream, Saber? You're not exactly experienced.

>given to this minor character in a chapter of the story that does not involve her at all is perfectly adequate a
Not him, You're still pushing this bullshit? Illya's bonding scenes were more than just slice of life, they established why Shirou saw Illya as a friend and confidant that he could trust in. This adaptation fails to showcase their relationship in a believable way

Next movie has
>Kirei Eleison
>Nine lives Blade works
>Saber vs Shirou and Rider
>Lets go home sakura, cut your ties with him.
>Fist fight
>So she can smile in front of other people
>Sakura can't smile if you exist and fist fight part 2
>A big sister protects his brother, and I am your big sister
>Cherry bloosoms ending kino
How will any other fate work even compete?

you are autistic

SOON

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>lets go home sakura, cut your ties with him

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Oh.

Well thanks for your honesty at least.

You too user, thank you.

Clearly the meaning's been lost through all these replies since then though, that's not what anyone's arguing about anymore.

And do you mean the true heroine comment? user that's a meme from Illya fans who are salty towards Sakura. It's just a reminder of her existence, it's not serious debasement, it doesn't need to be taken seriously.

user honestly I don't get why you're so hostile and condescending towards everyone here. No one's arguing the original claim, only that she's more important than you make her out to be, even as a fan yourself.

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>Where was Taiga
This. This was her first appearance in both movies. She randomly popped in for the first time in like 3 hours gave Sakura advice then fucked back off.
I'm no the one denying Illya's importance in the route. I'm also not the one insisting that all of the character relationship building should be skipped. People who aren't close don't die for each other like Illya did for Shirou. People who aren't close don't shield other people with their body like Shirou did if they're ot close. Just admit that Ufotable fucked up user. The movie is decent but it could've been much better

Knowing way too many victims of molestation by relatives, trusted friends, battered women, you name it, I can assure you with 10000% confidence that her reactions to his rape and abuse is distressingly common. She even seems to show some classic internalized guilt. Of particular note is that nice people who are abused in reality rarely actually want the "revenge" you'd think they would. I bet some anons in this very thread can speak about this personally.

I've seen women beat within an inch of their lives by alcoholics who ripped bloody fistfuls of their hair out for no discernible reason defend the motherfuckers physically against cops trying to take the fucker away.

source: worked police dispatch for about 6 months

Sakura's reponse to being raped by Shinji on the regular is absolutely normal, sadly, not even factoring in her fantasy-world magical violation and feelings of literally supernaturally wretched worthlessness and filthiness.

i can't wait bros

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>read the VN
Which doesn't matter. This is the movie. Only things that are in the movie matter for the purposes of the movie. Get over it.

it's a discussion about the VN, but ok secondary-kun

>You will live to see Kirei pin assassin to a tree
>You will live to see Nine Lives Blade Works
>You will live to see the fist fight
>You will live to see the jewel sword
Truly, this is the best timeline.

Haters really like to say HF is good because of Illya and Kotomine and Sakura didn't do shit, but Sakura actually has a bunch of the best Heaven's feel scenes (rain, bed/knife, rule breaker and dark sakura kino with her murdering assasin), and is her character is heavily involved into the most kino kirei moment.

Stay based

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>No one's arguing the original claim, only that she's more important than you make her out to be, even as a fan yourself.
a lot of people are, actually, the post directly following yours is literally insinuating that 'all of the relationship building scenes were skipped' while rambling incoherently about dying for each other, as if even the VN established any actual reason for this bond between them other than 'the plot says so', as if the bond wasn't made clearly apparent long before we find out that she has any ties to kiritsugu or emiya
illya's role is minor, she is a minor character, people cannot understand that that does not in any way imply that she is irrelevant to the plot, it's not my fault everyone replying to me is a fucking shit chewing retard
and the other half of them are literally personally offended because i've insulted they're waifu by calling her a minor character with a minor role in the plot, which she is, because that is how fucking literature defines her character, and they can't understand that this doesn't mean that they aren't allowed to like her scenes more than others

youtu.be/6wLHKS6EOko?t=1309
Bros...

God I wish I WAS Illya

Nope. Sakura and Shirou and mandatory or there is no story because this is their story. Everyone else is there in service to making that story happen or be better. If they don't, they can be excised, their dialogue that's necessary (if any) can be folded into other characters. As is usually the case with time-strapped adaptations. Or revisions by a writer of their own work. You can't begin to imagine how much stuff Earth 2 You thinks is utterly vital just never existed here on Earth 1 and you don't miss its absence.

Again, you've been btfo and cannot name anything that would have made these better movies by their inclusion OTHER than the good observation that Illya is present but seems half-realized. But you have been schooled as to why that is the case at this point in the movie and you know it.

Please tell us what you think a minor character is

>it's not my fault everyone replying to me is a fucking shit chewing retard
and the other half of them are literally personally offended because i've insulted they're waifu by callin
Have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe YOU'RE IN THE WRONG. Countless people have explained to you the importance of Illya and how Ufotable failed to develop her relationship with Shirou.
You've done nothing but plug your ears and moan about how she's a minor character who's irrelevant to the story. Don't get mad because people are telling you facts.

The VN doesn't apply.

"It truly was....a presage butterfly."

Sudou being a waifufag unironically doomed this adaptation. Kirei and Illya got butchered beyond redemption.

>If they don't, they can be excised, their dialogue that's necessary (if any) can be folded into other characters
Illya can't be removed. Her impact on the story is massive. Your theory that her role could be spread across other characters is unfounded and pointless. It's a hypothetical scenario that isn't even true.
>You can't begin to imagine how much stuff Earth 2 You thinks is utterly vital just never existed here on Earth 1 and you don't miss its absence.
Are you fucking high?

user I.... I don't understand this thought process. How is she a minor character? How did both her and Shirou not showcase that they'd die for the other? Illya sacrifices herself so he can live, and Shirou nearly kills himself multiple times to protect her during the forest scene and Nine Lives Blade Works.

How is that minor? How is everyone retarded for having issues with these claims? How?

Please....... I'm so confused, I actually cannot understand this. It goes against everything I read in the VN.

Illya is keeping me sane, thank you user......

I won't expect anything from the fmthird installment of HF but I'm convinced that I'll be disappointed.

It just sounds like you need a nice, strong injection of Illya

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Fuck I shed some tears

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a minor character is a character within a narrative that has relatively little direct action within the plot, who has relatively few scenes set specifically for the character to be a plot-driving actor in, with the caveat that plot-driving actions are not directly proportional to the character's relevance within the overarching narrative(the entire narrative can even be exclusively about this character, and this character will still be classified as a minor character because the only metric is direct action and direct involvement
you were supposed to learn this in 7th grade
>Have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe YOU'RE IN THE WRONG.
constantly, which is why i know i'm not in the wrong, because you are unable to refute a single one of my arguments while insistently and idiotically continuing to claim that illya fucking matters at all in the plot of lost.butterly

>This was her first appearance in both movies.
Know how we know you haven't actually watched them?

>refute a single one of my arguments
I've refuted your arguments for the last four fucking hours. You just refuse to listen to reason. In fact you're still sprouting the same bs about Illya being a minor character, when if you remove her, you can't even tell the story because of how big her role is.

>secondaries claiming Illya wasn't butchered in the adaptation.
The True end doesn't make any sense if her development is skipped.

>I won't expect anything from the fmthird installment of HF but I'm convinced that I'll be disappointed.
bros...

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he literally actually did not read the post he is replying to
his reply literally mentions refusing to listen to reason
this is some fucking world class projection

You're intending to talk to me here, there is a lot going on itt and not just shitposting for once. Sasuga IllyaCHADS.

Look man, I was a huge LotR fan since late childhood and know words in Quenya. When I found out there were going to be 3 movies from a literally who with huge budget for mainstream audiences, I had a huge explosion of mixed feelings of joy at seeing them get that kind of treatment and the killer previews, combined with the knowledge that a vast amount of it was inherently unfilmable (or best left unfilmed). As it happened, immeasurable amounts of my beloved material got cut or altered to the extreme but the movies were just so good to me and did so much I never even hoped for or thought of to replace those put-aside bits that I didn't miss them in the end. By the time Arwen was stealing important lines and being in places she shouldn't I already didn't care, because it worked IN THE MOVIE, didn't change the books I already owned on my shelf one bit, and the music alone was worth any changes. And those are 4 hour movies uncut. They still had to get to the heart of things and they did that and that's why they succeeded and feel right.

The HF movies are the same. I mention LotR also because the VN is as long as the LotR and Hobbit combined, did you know that? I'm amazed they kept as much material, some of it nearly verbatim and using layouts from the VN as they did. You have to pick the best parts, the key parts, and you have to stick to a core theme and these movies have done that relentlessly and not even actually made changes outright. Even when YOU read the VN, you are subconsciously focusing on some things and skimming through others. In your case (assumption here) you are really focused on Illya and wanted every bit of Illya you can get. That is not a correct choice for the movie they are making in the *way they are making it* out of many possible approaches. There is no possible "pure" cannon approach. --->

>Illya is integral to the entirely of the plot
>The story literally cannot resolve without her presence
>The characterizations of many characters revolves around her
>Shirou, himself, especially evolves thanks to her input throughout the narrative
>She appears constantly, and has the second largest amount of new scenes in the route
>To reiterate, the story literally could not be possible without her.
>Despite this, she is obviously a minor character according to one user on Yea Forums who's never read the light novel, apparently.
I'm only just now replying to you, but goddamned are you fucking dumb.

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>relatively few scenes set specifically for teh character to be a plot-driving actor in
did you even read the VN?
there are several scenes were you speak to Illya where it's not about the plot.
why don't you list the main characters in heaven feel then?

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I did watch both. She appeared once in the 2nd movie. I haven't watched the first one in over a year, so if she was in it I forgot.
Anyways, my and the other a on's point was that Taiga came out of nowhere in Lost Butterfly. She pops in during the last 20ish minutes for the first time to give Sakura some words of encouragement before fucking off again

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You know just what I need, thank you based Illya user.

I miss the Illya thread, it was comfy ;_;

Anonnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!! That's not true about Illya though. She changes Shirou's ideals so he decides to protect Sakura. That's direct involvement. Heaven's Feel wouldn't happen without her. And then afterwards she joins the main cast in Shirou's house.

Even when she's left behind for the final battle she still shows up at the end to change the outcome of everything (Shirou's survival).

Her role is very similar to Rin in Fate, actually. Would you consider her to also be a minor character there?

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>another fuckjing YEAR

someone make a bingo on which scene they will definitely mess up

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So user, what drugs are you on? You're clearly out of it right now because people have been refuting your arguments for the last 4 hours but you still think that you're winning this argument.
Now you're so fucking high or drunk that you can't even comprehend what you're reading anymore. You even claim I'm projecting.

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Make one. Saber and Illya threads sometimes pop up but they are the most comfy ones I've seen

She's a pretty major presence in the prologue as a parental figure to Shirou and Sakura, which ties into that scene where she encourages Sakura.

here you go retard, you fundamentally lack understanding of basic concepts of fiction
does she have as many scenes overall in fate/stay night as shirou, saber, rin, sakura, kotomine, or archer? looks like she's pretty far down the list huh buddy, guess that makes her a minor character doesn't it, i can dance all day
getting another character to do something is the polar opposite of direct involvement, my friend, i don't think you really understand what i'm saying

If they don't fuck up HF3 will unironically be not only the best fate shit but one of the best anime movies japan has ever made.

>a minor character is a character within a narrative that has relatively little direct action within the plot
>ilya
>little direct action
>little direct involvement
You are literally retarded, or just a very shitty troll, in which case, 1/10 apply yourself

Congratulations! You've successfully convinced me you're a troll. Literally no human being could be as catastrophically retarded as you're acting.

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Archer isn't a main character in Heavens Feel. Rin is on the same tier of importance as Illya. Why are you so fucking obtuse?
He's either baiting or he's mentally ill

>He's either baiting or he's mentally ill
why not both?

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well you said it so it must be true
(no u)
sub 90 IQ

Projecting much?

retard

yes

Chances of giving us Sparks Liner High despite it being a Bad End? It was easily one of the top 10 scenes of the VN for me.

>shirou
he's the fucking MC
>saber
shows up four times as dark saber after mud
>archer
only exists in fate to teach shirou how to use his circuits
only exists in HF to give shirou his arm and flashbacks
>Sakura
only prominent in HF, just like Illya

funny when you secondaries/tertiaries try to act like you know what you're talking about

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Anybody got some dope Kirei memes? I hunger.

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That'd mean taking away Rider's only real chance to shine.

user are you seriously talking about Fate/Stay Night as a whole now? I thought we were only talking about Heaven's Feel? And seriously Archer? Saber? The characters who die barely half way through the route? Absolutely Illya has more scenes than them in Heaven's Feel. Illya has a ton of scenes throughout the VN even, her absence in UBW is the only thing that stacks this against her overall, and the same can be said for Sakura.

But really? You don't constitute what type a character is based of the whole VN when each route is supposed to be different. In Fate she's an antagonist, in UBW she's minor, in Heaven's Feel she borders in main since you need to devote affection points to her to reach the ending. Please remember we're talking about a galgame, oh my God.

I could sit here and lay out on post-it notes a version of the story scene by scene and figure out what has to get cut and where and what kind of movie that leaves us with. Rearrange things to break it into 3 parts that feel like they have a beginning and an end and story arcs yet build to the next movie (or conclusion) and leave you wanting more. OK so once we have our movie roughed out, let's say we really want to have Illya's core story arc told even though she's in the movie but it's not about her. She is a side story, period. We could change that if we really wanted but assume we're not and are sticking closer to the VN. So as you said earlier, she IS important because if nothing else she is the Gollum-style plot mover who enables the ending. Which does not just mean she fills a role so X can happen. She makes it matter more and enhances it. We don't need that in the movie but we decide we're going with that because it fits the one we're doing and the payoff is going to stick with people for years.

So, this in mind, we need Illya to:
Find out that Kiri did not abandon her
Know her life isn't just to be a tool then die
Someone does care
Sacrifice herself for a cause that makes her truly human
Cause me to cry like a bitch

So do we do all that shit in movie 2, wait 2 years, then towards the end of the movie, with 5 of those things already done and out of mind, go on and try to pull off the sacrifice and crying like a bitch part? Hell no. You spread it into the trilogy as a whole and put the most weighty parts near where they are going to matter. It would blow to get all this "bonding" in pt. II, then forget her except as a magic consultant (like in the VN) until she pops back in at the end literal years of irl time later. I want you to get that main emotional impact of her character arc at least in the same movie where she ends it.

Another movie of this story that's just as loyal could have focused a little more on Rin.

Taiga is there before that, she just gets blown off and looks a little puzzled. Shirou isn't paying attention to her by now.

>Find out that Kiri did not abandon her
Impossible. There's literally no one left alive who knows the exact circumstances surrounding Kiritsugu. He never told Shirou anything.

0. What will probably happen is we'll get half of Spark Liner High, and it will look like Rider isn't going to show up, but before Shirou goes all out, Rider will show up and the route will precede like normal.

It would be if they go full Mind of Steel.

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Why did Shirou go super saiyan blanco?

very cute sakura

Looks like amakusa

>t. 13 yo manchild

I mean, I was obviously not saying they should go down that End, but I REALLY want to see the fight and hear Mighty Wind.

I think that Rider jumping in to save the day, like you described, would be my ideal scenario, so much so that I don't want to hope for it and get disappointed.

Everybody has allll the same info and experience you do with this series. You're done falling back on "muh tertiaries". Make a point with no appeal to that shit or fuck off. You didn't take a class on this, it's a fucking gal game for teenagers a decade ago, every detail of which is such common knowledge it's been parodied and it's deepest lore has been in fighting games. And your grandmother ca come in here this very minute and your faux-primary posturing would count for nothing because she can fact-check you with a goddamn google search in seconds that your deep lore skillz have no deeper insight into. Period.

What are you *talking* about

>gets all his points refuted
>resorts to buzzwords and strawman
here is your last (You)

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>If I just say a whole lot of nothing, it'll look like I have a point!
We're done with you. Go to another thread and try convincing someone that Naruto is good, or whatever it is you do.

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cute!

i don't understand what you're trying to tell me with what each character's role in the story is
you're completely off

>rin takes old men in the ass for money
wait what?

i can't believe these retards are in denial about this lmao
jesus christ the seethe

i can fucking swear on my mother's grave that most of them got through half of fate arc tops

>tfw there are people who are secondaries through Case Files and there'll be ones through Babylonia in five weeks
There's no escape from this

ok tertiary-kun

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based rinfag

>that picture
This reminds of one of the clearfiles Ufotable gave out during the theater showings they called "What must be protected".

Say what you will about her scenes, but Ufotable and Sudou know her importance.

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Read the VN.

And more relevantly, at the end of pt. II, there is a whole exposition from Taiga (who knows enough to make it obvious) that Illya overhears in the hallway. She knows Kiritsugu went overseas (she may even specify where, I don't remember with 100% certainty offhand) "looking for someone dear to him" many times. There is a flashback scene while she talks of herself looking dejected in the Emiya house as he basically headpats her on his way out the door, leaving her there alone. Taiga's story is one I wish was explored more but maybe it's better just being mainly >implied. Anyway Illya hears all this, looks freaked out, does the "face hidden by bangs" thing and backs down the hallway against the wall and obviously puts two and two together that he DID try to come back for her after all, just like he promised he would. For the billionth time, the movie leaves her there with that revelation but not showing her response or how she's going to deal with it. She is going into the finale with that bombshell having just hit her that the last 10 years of her life (or whatever) have been a lie.

They could have just had literally 15 seconds of her dripping some tears then looking up looking happy or wistful or bittersweet or whatever then moved on with the main plot but first, that leaves her "dead in the water" as writers call it with no momentum or drive going into the finale. Second, that gives a cathartic and off-key moment to the unrelenting and sinister slow burn they're doing at that point in the plot. Desu, one of the moments I wish I didn't already know what she'll do and envied my friends.

>he doesn't want to see Shirou win the war all alone like a badass
>he likes genocidal wormsluts

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And yet, somehow the movie managed to do exactly that.

Taiga's Grampa knows, according to one of the material books. Whether or not he said anything to Taiga herself is another story.

didn't watch the movie.
Shirou learned through Kotomine and Saber telling him about the Einzbern being desperate and hiring an outside magus to make a child and letting them participate. This led Shirou to knowing it was Kiritsugu and that Illya is his daughter.

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Shirou will lose the war if sakura is dead senpai

>wormslut
Sorry for saying 13 yo, 10 yo at most

Hold on, does that mean Raiga knows who Illya is? Holy shit is this another reason why he's apparently so friendly with her when she moves in with him and Taiga in Fate?

This just changed the entire context of Illya's life after Fate.

And then she dies a year later.

Pure speculation. Shirou with a Kerry mindset can win for me, though it's just my opinon as well.
>Wormslut lover
Can't handle the truth, do we user? You Sakurashitters have always been cancer.

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Nobody's refuted me once.

BUT I'M SPECIAL AND SMART! I READ A PICTURE BOOK!

Cunts.

>the truth
What truth shitposter kun? Enlighten me

>he doesn't have the attention span to read a picture book
is this what you are implying?

Mastered the movie. You're off-topic. This is exclusively about Illya, who finds out at the end. Watch it or leave.

I don't think he knows right away. The old man's smart, so he probable just figured it out quick. IIRC Gramps and Kiritsugu met some time right after 4th war and became pals (they also becomes buds with Issei's dad). Raiga knows about Kiritsugu's past, but probably not the specifics.

I vaguely remember one of the materials for HA mentioning that in that timeline, Illya often just hangs out with him, especially much later when the grail is dismantled, and he even gives her permission to take money from his FUCKING YAKUZA BANK ACCOUNT if Taiga ever borrows from the Einzbern estate and doesn't pay it back (I could be remembering it wrong of course, it's been damn near 10 years since I even bothered to read these damn things).

Oh, and another detail - he and Issei's dad are the ones who buried Kiritsugu. Those 3 were pretty close, so it's no wonder he'd spoil Illya if he did know.

That Sakura is a wormslut

>THAT rinfag falseflags as a saberfag part#12410

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She'll figure it out pretty quick since everyone else knows and it's pretty clear, but then again she thinks Saber hanging out eating dinner and all manner of other shit's no more than eyebrow-raising so either she's kinda dim or just not inclined to ask questions. Honestly her seeming obliviousness to everything is a pretty big plot convenience we're just willing to overlook because ultimately, it's not relevant to the story.

why is saber so fat?

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Well that debate's resolved.

I want to lick and kiss every inch of her majestic body

She thinks sooner or later it will go to her tits.

She can't be fat. Her body literally can't change no matter how much she eats. She is Sakura's natural enemy.

That's an assumption partially using out of date rumours as basis (Archer coming from Illya's route for one), as well as assumption from Zouken.

The VN itself hints at there being a possibility she lives for longer in this scene. Weird how that's just ignored, honestly. Mai Kadowaki even reads this quite earnestly, and we know Nasu directs the VA's.

Aaaaaaa what!? There's material comments for Hollow Ataraxia that mentions details about the HA timeline? That's such a sweet detail! It was mentioned in Fate that Taiga spoiled her a little, but who knew to that extent. But yeah that is how I figured it might go, realizing this.

I think I remember that detail about him and Issei's dad, not sure where I heard it though. Thanks a lot for these details!

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>will never get tits or an ass

no she is FAT

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Me on the left.

And it would have were it not for the damned curse upon Caliburn.

I blame Sudou for making a shitty Sakura route. He didn't really fix anything. Sakura is still a glorified plot device.

>sakurashitters have always been cancer
Sure thing mentally ill """"saberbro""""", guess your ban finally got lifted
boards.fireden.net/a/thread/191027698/#191067341
boards.fireden.net/a/thread/191027698/#191068328
boards.fireden.net/a/thread/191027698/#191069615
boards.fireden.net/a/thread/191027698/#191070213
boards.fireden.net/a/thread/191027698/#191070369
boards.fireden.net/a/thread/191027698/#191070410
boards.fireden.net/a/thread/191027698/#191070552
boards.fireden.net/a/thread/191027698/#191061684
Saber is not fat and has a strong back

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To answer your first response - most anons tend to latch onto the idea that Illya dies within the year, despite most other entries either ignoring that possibility or debunking it. Fuck, HA takes place six months later and goes on to imply that Illya will eventually grow up without the Einzbern influence on her form. Literally nowhere outside of one route that is no longer canon due to HA gives even a passing mention of her dying.

To respond to your second thing - There is an ASSLOAD of material books for Nasuverse shit - a lot of the side lore we got up until recently even came from them. For the HA book itself, I think it was the special '07 booklet released for a comiket like, forever ago. It gave a few details on the characters, and I remember it having a sketch of Bazett that made me fall in love with her. I bought a bunch of artbooks/fanbooks/material books, and even the One Day! doujins back when I first got into the series. If I still have them, they'll be in my storage unit. Now I'm interested enough to go check later. If I remember to do it (and this thread's still up), I'll be back with more tasty deets.

>Discord: 17 results
>Wormfag: 30 results
95% of those results are probably from the same rinfag
>That first thread where the rinfag is literally calling for a raid of his discord rhinobros.
Kek, this retard should just get ignored until he gets bored of spamming the same crap instead of getting attention

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It features Sakura prominently.
It's based on the worst route.

The rinfag spamming crap and the sakurafag bitch please is so accurate kek

What happened I don't get it

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>burgers wake up
>the sakura hate starts
every thread

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would hitler be avenger?
Or would rampant nazi magic make him a caster

It's more likely that his class would be Caster or Rider, but Avenger fits in with his personal history.

>by far the most complicated heroine character-wise
>is the heroine who defeats the most villains in her route
Keep spouting your generic buzzwords, though.

Hitler would be a Berserker because he's famous for losing his shit after the war began to turn.
Probably closest to Caligula. Vaguely coherent rambling between psychotic screeching.

Maybe this. I already think HF2 improved a lot from the first and in a weak decade for movies is pushing the envelope for top 10, so improving even more has the potential to at least be the best movie since Rebellion (or Disappearance if you're one of those that doesn't like Rebellion).

Rinfag loosing his mind and:
>calling everyone in a saber thread wormfag
>falseflagging as a saberfag and talking about muh saberfag alliance
>spamming about a secrit club wormfag discord
>basically shitting the thread
The exact same shit happened in another saber thread a week after, though I can't find it
and in the sakura thread, he basically admitted the wormslut spam is a raid from rinfags, probably from some discord slut.
That rinfag suspiciously shitposts in the same way the rinfag here does, and for the three days his post got deleted I didn't see wormslut shitposting of the same caliber this rinfag does.
Another way of recognizing him is that he uses cope and other Yea Forums buzzwords following the wormsomething shitposts a lot.

>discord server*
>for the three since days his post got deleted

>Sakura
>complicated heroine character-wise
user I

Even if the movie was longer Kirei's shroud scene isn't even close to being a priority.

Nasu literally said that Sakura is the only character he considers as deep and layered as Shirou, rinocerosbro

She is complicated since haters can't even understand her as seen here

I recognize that retard, and yes, its the same guy you replied. There are many rinfag shitposters but that guy is a level above the rest.

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#192477961
>gets caught
>posts ebin worm meme

It's so nice to meet a logical user!! It can be so disheartening to see that idea latched onto, even though so much has either ignored or debunked it since then. Thank you so much for bringing up that fact from Hollow Ataraxia as well!

That would be wonderful if you could! I'm glad this reminded you of them, if just so you can take a flip through them again for yourself, they sound like a great read. Big fan of Ronpaia books as well, I'll say! It sounds like you've been into the series for quite a while! I thought I was aware of most of the material books, even intend to collect them myself since I've been collecting Fate books, but this sounds like something more obscure.

The thread will probably be long gone by the time you get around to this (Especially since the Sakura haters have woken up) but I'll probably make a Saber or Illya thread you can post these in if you'd to post any of your findings there. Those are usually comfier.

Thank you again user!

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Reminder that despite what some people might try to tell you, Ilya still dies in a year. Happiness is an illusion. Also, Bazett dies in Heaven's Feel. She dies cold, alone and in pain. Also, there is no route in which Kuzuki survives. Also, Saber's blackening probably has some bad consequences for Gray. Also, Caren is barren. Wait a bit and I'll be back with more proof that happiness is dead.

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More like number four or five.

Fixed you. Pussy trying to dodge responses and save face lol.

Why does HA exist?

It's a fandisc. Fandiscs were pretty normal for VNs back in those days.

I remember when I first bought the Fue books, I had no idea wtf a Doujin was, and I had no idea people just -made- their own fan stories for shit like this, so my dumbass 20-year-old self of course came to the conclusion that all the One Day! stuff was canon (and thanks to the kaleidoscope, it's still canon as far as I'm concerned, it helps that HA is still my favorite installment).

I've liked the Nasuverse for a while, since ~08-09, a buddy of mine in the service brought back a bunch of stuff from when he was stationed in japan. I really wasn't into anime or gaming until he did, but Fate, Zelda, etc is now part of my life because of it.

Don't wait up for me - me posting more here about it requires a) I have time to go check my storage unit after I get away from the office, b) I remember, and c) I even still own the damn things.

I WILL say the raw scans are definitely online somewhere, you might have an easier time just finding them on something like sadpanda or one of the many, many torrent sites. Again, I don't want to give false hope of an info dump if I don't actually have the books anymore.

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And why does Realta (the Lucas re-edited Star Wars of Fate) exist for that matter?

Those scenes were pretty nice
Not only they showed cute sakura, it actually makes sense for a person with a terrible life to dream about fantastic things.

Money.

>Nasu literally said that Sakura is the only character he considers as deep and layered as Shirou,
Source?

Can't hear you in Hollow Ataraxia where none of that happens (though maybe Saber spontaneously turning into Alter may result in weird yet brief moments with Waver's crew), Kuzuki and Medea are happily married, Bazett is bickering with Cu and Caren in the Emiya residence, Sakura and Rider are living happily together just as in Heaven's Feel, and Illya's one year death after is debunked and dropped like the dead drama hook it was.

It's a good time over here in happiness, you should try it out

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Dragons.

You're leaving out the best part, obviously: INFINITY EIGHT.

the interview included in the booklet on the BD of HF1

You people suck Kotomine's dick too much, even the final fight isn't comparable to Shirou VS Archer.
It's literally just two autists exchanging blows comparing whose autism is stronger.

Post it.

One of the Nasu interviews, I actually think it was fairly recent - Yea Forums had a field day.

Honestly, I don't expect Sudou to do Saber's death scene justice.

>they son’t know that FGO is the new canon
>they think anything else in this franchise matters
It’s not like this movie matters

I'm worried about how toning down Rin's cunt attitute will affect how Sakura is perceived in the last movie. Some changes will probably be made.

Does it matter? She's the vessel of LITERALLY all the world's evil. Just blame everything on him.

>Wormslutkeks

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FGO is vital for HF movies because FGO made a billion dollars, literally saved Sony (their words) and definitely got it funded. Thank those whales.

Her being a cunt is a petty thing that would seem like a arguable, non-conclusive and possibly whiny weakling excuse for anything. Her telling Shirou the high jump story has the same end result but leaves Sakura's reaction make unambiguous sense and gives it weight. "She was mean to me" doesn't give it much validity, it just makes Sakura seem like a crybaby. She also knows Rin was going to kill her. No need to muddy it with minor high school tier bickering as a part of a motive for turning into a walking apocalypse. Rin being nice in the kitchen scene is important because it makes the feeling of betrayal clearcut, inarguable (from the pov that matters here) and scarring. A bitchy dickhead Rin who then also pulls the world out from under Sakura but on accident is very low-stakes.

Someone made a doujin about how Rin was bankrupted and indebted after the HGW so she had whore herself to old rich men. Halfway Saber join her to help her set the debt faster and the ones that capture Rin when she tries to run from the debt collectors are no others than Sakura and Rider.

We already know you browse Yea Forums, no need for proof, rhino

>complicated
Nice buzzword.
>deep and layered
Multiple layers of shit don't make her a good character. It's exactly the opposite, actually.

Still doesn't matter. The thing about Dark Sakura is that you can blame everything she does on Angra Mainyu. It's obscene how convenient that is. Nothing's REALLY her fault, aside from leaving the house and confronting Zouken, resulting in her falling into Zouken's trap, killing Shinji and completely breaking down. You can just blame that on teenage impulsiveness. Everything that happens afterwards, including her behavior, can be blamed on Avenger.

It is known you are from Yea Forums by spamming cope over and over, no need to show it

>they like them sluts wormy

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I'm just waiting for Nine Lives Blade Works. I have no incentive to go through Heaven's Feel again otherwise.

>phoneposter screenshot
>/fgog/
>weak attempt at coopting Rincontinence

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You have to realize by now that Avenger (and more to the point, Zouken whose fault it really is) is not possessing her like a robot or using her body as a puppet. He's empowering her worst fears and desires and trauma to manifest in the world and letting it all loose. And she feeds him. It is a symbiotic relationship in a way. She is not possessed by a ghost.

This is not to say it's her FAULT exactly let alone something she deserves miserable death or punishment for, but she has deeply rooted darkness and without that, Angra would not be able to work like he did. "It" did, would be more accurate. The darkness does what Sakura wants and feeds her needs, subconsciously or not and with her direct consent or not.

She's Dark SAKURA. Saber confronted her inner darkness (and lost). Sakura's inner darkness confronted her. It was there either way. It's just that the grail shard in her body gave it form and let loose a demon.

It's way more complex than people want to act like it is.

You definitely are an /alter/ native. Not that this fact invalidates your point.

Womslut

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Honestly, Sakura hyperventilating over the high jump story was just silly. The reason it made her freak out so hard in the VN was because Rin was using it as a pretext to ask Shirou to let her kill Sakura.

It's seven billion curses. The audience only needs to hear that and they'll accept it. Rin could be the nicest lady in the world and the moment the audience hears "all the world's evil", they'll accept it.

wormkeks BTFO

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Honestly, I expected them to change the ending in the third movie to make Sakura more relevant in her own route. At least the very last scene before the epilogue, the culmination of the entire VN.
But seeing that the director is a talentless hack, he will likely leave it as is. Meaning it won't be a proper HF adaptation, nor a proper Sakura story.
Good job on fucking everything up.

you fuckers constantly over exaggerate to hunt for (you)'s

>no one bites yet he is still spamming
Its time to stop rhinobro...

what the fuck is going in this picture

I don't get it too, the only thing I know is that he is both from Yea Forums and a phoneposter

I watched it with total Fate virgins and they were fucking shellshocked. You have been ruined for this by having preconceptions and no doubt waiting for things to go how you pictured them. Objectively and purely watched, the story is mortifying. I got asked if it was supposed to mean Sakura was just so far gone and insane that she delusionally imagined the whole thing all this time and never saw the high jump thing at all. Overheard it from Rin or something. Which is plausible if you simply watch the movie you're presented with.

One thing's for sure. YOU would have lost your shit in her shoes. It'd be insane to hear that and not die inside.

Nah. HF has gone on for hours at this point with a lot more subtext and drama behind her to get away with "lol it was just a mc guffin generic Hollywood magic thing".That has NO emotional impact and no meaning. Dead in the water and invalidates every bit of the development and tension up till this point. I'd leave the theater.

>expected them to change the ending in the third movie
>expected past tense

>Sakura can rip a part of her heart out
How were Rin or Shirou supposed to kill her if she was this powerful?

"[O]ne of the greatest [...] of all time" is a pretty fucking exclusive description.

I absolutely loved the movie, but the onus is on you to justify that description, not on others to argue against it.

It's not going to happen.

And yet, in spite of that, the simple fact that she's been corrupted by ALL THE WORLD'S EVIL kinda overshadows that. It's literally All the World's Evil. It's not even a metaphor. The Grail literally turned Angra Mainyu into the embodiment of every evil in this world. Seven billion curses. You can't really look around that. Despite what Sakura's been through, it's just so easy to blame it all on Avenger. It's so convenient. It is fundamentally the reason why Sakura can't be called a villain, but a victim. It's not like with Kohaku or Fujino, who did everything they did of their own accord. Sure there were catalysts, but those aren't excuses. For Sakura, Angra Mainyu is a really perfect excuse. No one could blame her. You could blame Kohaku or Fujino, but you can't blame Sakura.

The Sakurafags are retarded. They basically admit that the route is about Angra Mainyu and not Sakura, making her even more irrelevant.

Bros, through 2 movies and to me still no moments surpass Last Stardust. Will the last one have the moment that can surpass that kino?

It's about Sakura. All I'm saying is she has any easy out. I mean, what do you expect her to do, get infected by ALL THE WORLD'S EVIL and not turn, you know, EVIL? The only ones who could possibly do that are a certain AUO or possibly the sword autist.

no I mean in that picture in the picture what the fuck is on her panties

Maybe NLBW can do it.

I don't care much about Shirou vs Kirei battle. But i want to see animated Kirei vs Hassan battle for long time.
And i hope they are going to make Shirou vs Saber anyhow.

Imagine to be assblasting RHINOfag for 15 years.

they didn't play "this illusion" so it's shit
youtu.be/tcnmWGyOOPA

There's a few.

illyachad checking in
can't wait to see my pretty wife in the third dress.

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Rin being a cunt has little to do with why Sakura goes dark, but the pressure Rin put on Sakura nearly constantly for those few days makes us empathise more with her anger towards Rin in their confrontation. If someone repeatedly tells you they'll kill you for several days and you know they probably will, you're not a crybaby for being angry, for fucks sake.

i finally did it bros

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Based lowercase Illya is a minor character poster

Congrats bro. Is it your first time or you're just replaying it?

The Salter vs Berserker was a solid 9 scene

I like the movies mostly for the fanservice aspect, finally seeing many iconic scenes animated is just nice and I like the novel too much to be able to objectively even tell if the movie is good or not. For me it sure was.
What also is absolutely amazing so far is letting myself get triggered at GOfags who have no idea what the novel ever is trying to explain events in the movie using their advanced lostbelts knowledge. I find it absolutely staggering that some people go around calling themselves huge Fate fans and yet they have no idea how the Fuyuki Grail even works. It's bizarre, like we are in the twilight zone or something.

Attached: [SMH My Head] Fate stay night Heaven's Feel II.lost butterfly][Movie][1080P][BDrip].mkv_snapsho (1920x1080, 150K)

I mean, that whole thing is there in order to explore Sakura's most repressed emotions and hatred. The dillemma for Shirou is still there, and it is necessary for her not carry any blame to make the dillemma harder for him. This is the result of making the dillemma as hard as it could be for Shirou, and wanting to forcibly show Sakura's repressed emotions/unconscious.

first time, only watched zero, don’t know if I’m going to watch ubw or hf

Doesn't look all that exceptional to me.

Fuck i hate it that I was reading the vn when I was kinda illiterate on English. Wish I could delete my memory so I can experience it the first time again.

Name or link?

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heracles should have won

what were your favourite scenes? Some way be worth revisiting

for me it’s
>kyrie elieson
>shirou/saber vs herc (caliburn)
>9 lives blade works
>shirou vs archer (the answer)
>kotomine vs shirou

If I wanted to watch a half decent movie centered around a selfish whore then I'd watch that Fujiko Mine movie. Also the Fate franchise as a whole is fucking embarrassing, I don't know how you spergs watch this shit seriously.

HA does not supercede an actual route, it is a completely impssible cobbeled together story, you are asked to just ignore all the ways in which it does not make sense with Stay Night, it is basically half-SN half-Noble Phantasm in that regard

*carnival phantism

All of that plus saber and shirou vs gil's fight beside the bridge in fate route and shirou btfo'ing Gil in ubw

What is Kyrie elieson?

Which release should I pick for this? There are like 10 of them on nyaa.

The one with the most downloads obviously

They reduced the focus on Illya because they're going to make an anime-original Illya route movie

but that's the camrip

Pick the bluray rip then dummy

Are the subs still shit?

Popularity mainly

Yes. Pick up any of the fansubs that exist, they're way better.

>You people suck Kotomine's dick too much
You're letting your dislike of Kotomine colour your criticism. He's a central character in HF. He's a big deal this time and to minimize his presence is the worst thing you can do to a main character.

Come on, the "they screwed Kirei over in the movies!" meme is ridiculous. He does nothing but infodump until the last two days.

He did the arm transplant too but they cut that for no reason.

Considering the translation, it might have been better that way.

Shinji Sakura sex scenes would be hotter than what we got. Sakura pretends to be innocent to Shirou but when she's around Shinji she can let her inner slut loose.

Reminder that UBW ends with Sakura and Shinji being together

Anybody have that devolution of a Fate thread comic? I think it fits pretty well here.

Pacing doesn't work after church scene and hard capping movie to two hours makes it too crowded. Also purely erogen parts could benefited better editing to the movie format

This should have been a TV anime since the beginning, too much shit has been cut

LE is about as good as these movies.

Since sakura has no agency of her own, you could replace her with a cat. Anytime she does something of significance, it's zouken controlling her or she's being influenced by the grail, which can happen to a cat just as well.

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LE is an abomination not even worth watching, the HF movies while extremely flawed are still good movies.

Based

She does know how to please a man.

If you're an anime only, the only real flaws I can think of now are the lack of Illya scenes, and possibly the bad flow between senes in HF1. Illya's lack of scenes could be amended in Spring song, too.

if you don't play fgo, you're worse than a secondary, as it's the actual main canon of fate.

>shirou would lose an arm for kotomine, illya is in no way the only character to show this trait of this
This. He literally shields Saber and he has only met her that day, and would have died if wasn't for Avalon plot armor. Shirou doing retarded martyrhood shit is only natural.

Honestly, something has felt kinda off about the movies. Then again, something felt off about the VN route too. Shit goes nuts so fast and hard it just ends up alienating you from the story.

Kotomine is the exact antithesis to Emiya Shirou. He's his shadow. Read the visual novel.