Early Dragon Ball: the "magic water" that makes you stronger isn't real Goku got stronger by climbing the tower and...

But Kururin didn't even have a gf yet

The problem is that you can't really train to resist poison, or well at least it wasn't established that you could, so it ends up being one of those "get a power up or die" but with Goku being unable to affect the outcome. It's basically gambling.

Jesus died a virgin, Kuririn should be honoured.

By the 2nd budokai in DB the fights are choreographed great, kys Z-fag

Goku coming back to life after King Piccolo straight up KILLS him is one of the biggest asspulls in Dragon Ball and a warning sign of future arcs.

Attached: deadku.jpg (480x360, 37K)

You can't really train to resist a bullet puncturing your skull and blowing your brain out either but look at the first epsiode

>yamcha vs goku
Hub

Didn’t Tao drink from the water too and it had no effect? That is 100% a plot hole if it was retconed in super. But HxH is still trash, at least I could get past the first chapter of dragonball lol

No. Tao drank the fake water Korin had. The real water was elsewhere, Korin would never give that to him.

He got launched though.

In the manga it was just hidden in the palace while in the anime it was in an iceberg or some shit.

Yeah.

no he was the senzu guy and a key player during the saiyan saga

Taopaipai did it in like a couple hours right after Goku took 3 days, you can't complain about Yajirobe

Yeah but without the possible retcon of 'Zenkai lul' there should have been no way drinking that water makes it so he is fodder to Old Piccolo but can go toe to toe with Prime Piccolo

Magic water gives Goku Oozaru powers. Itwas a pseudo-zenkai

Goku got stronger through the zenkai boost he got from the near death experience of drinking the holy water.

>there should have been no way drinking that water makes it so he is fodder to Old Piccolo
the water awakened his potential

He had the power of the Oozaru there in base form thanks to the water's potential unlocking abilities. Although Toriyama basically ignores that after the timeskip.

I think I get what Toriyama was going for. Remember that Goku lost his tail during the timeskip, and he fought more serenely and focused, suggesting his training with god made him more zen-like, relinquishing the need for the Oozaru.

no the tail was removed so Kami could bring the moon back

but who could beat tao pai pai? is he the strongest in animu?

I mean, he could have trained.

Dragon Ball died after Cell Games

There was a definite change in both Goku's demeanor and fighting style in that tournament, though. Granted it doesn't really last since his character development gets reset through the later arcs until he's back where he started.

*namek arc*
The android arc is literally the worst of the original series.

The single greatest moment among humans in the Dragon Ball franchise.

Attached: yajirobi.gif (500x271, 984K)

Nah. Vegeta getting his shit kicked by 18 makes it gold.

The only good moment. Everything else is shit.

The point is, Toriyama was shifting Goku's demeanor. Removing the tail accentuated that.

Didn't toriyama deleted tails because they annoyed them? Though that can only be something he thought in the saiyan arc.

Vegeta joining the main cast ruined Dragon Ball. He should have stayed dead or fuck off.

True. Vegeta character gets pretty boring after a while. A character Always having his personality being around another character is not a good idea.

That always bothered me, his heart was stopped and than next chapter it suddenly starts up again no CPR or anything.

Vegeta didn't used to be all muh Saiyan pride. He was willing to fight dirty and team up which makes because he willingly worked for Frieza. Honestly, it would have made his redemption more believable that he only really cared about stopping Frieza.

Yeah. I wonder why people don't talk about of vegeta got rewritten as a character that loves fighting when originally he didn't care about using dirty tricks to win. But in the android arc the suddenly wants to fight the androids because...? It's retarded.

One weird thing I noticed was Vegeta's personality change, it felt like that Frieza got some of Vegeta's old personality when he was introduced.

But that's not his character.
Toriyama removed the tail because it was easier to draw without it. Why else do you think the Saiyans wore their tails like belts and why he permanently got rid of them after that. Also you have to remember that Super Saiyan is blonde so Toriyama didn't have to ink hair anymore. Still he's a genius as he made it a work out

>the "magic" water is actually just poison and no human has ever survived drinking it so who knows if it actually makes anyone stronger
>Goku is a saiyan, and gets a zenkai boost from drinking it

There's a good reason for that. Namely was a desparate struggle for the Dragon Balls and Vegeta also had beef with Frieza and was scared shitless of him. Meanwhile he had a three year warning for the androids and became the second legendary super saiyan and let it go to his head. Even when he was defeated he quickly gained a new form that brought his arrogance to new levels until Cell beat him down and Goku one upped him again.

True. But maybe he trained for doing it. He entered the budokai after all. And yajirobe was as strong as goku and tienshinhan before so it's not that bad.

But in the saiyan arc vegeta still acts like the fucker he was before the android arc

She shows honor during the Saiyan arc although it's limited

>she
Lol. But what are those moments of honors you speak of? I only remember he talking about krilin good fighting style but only that.

He waited 3 hours for You and he listened to Goku's request that they fight somewhere empty. It's not much but it's there

He waited 3 hours because he wanted to see goku. After the three hours he told nappa to kill piccolo and the rest. And fighting in another place is something that a lot of db villains do. He just wanted to fight in a place with more space instead of somewhere filled with bodies.

He could have just killed them all. And the body point makes no sense since he could easily destroy them

I fucking hate how quickly dragonball turned to shit once it dropped the adventure aspect.
The worst part is that's when most people start liking it.

Attached: NO.jpg (629x590, 18K)

You deserve it for liking the wrong things.

Are you implying he did it for honor? For him it was just a game. He could have everyone killed but he tells nappa to do it since he doesn't want to do the dirty work.

How is liking the adventure wrong?

>given ki sensing and his potential represented by Oozaru
SKW is easily more of a handout than Majin. That's just a fact.

Cope

Because the Red Ribbon Army arc is the most boring part of the series.

Attached: 156545700691399 soy.png (703x800, 37K)

It's unironically one of the bests arc only behind the first one. Only the muscle power part is boring, the other half is pretty good.

It is pretty boring for the MC to always lose to his rival, I suppose. Where is the fun in that? No challenge at all.

All that shit about honor and pride has been noted before as a new character (who is undefeated against Goku, like the previous one).

Frieza was invented to fill the role Vegeta served when the latter got too popular to perma-kill against Goku, so he didn't have to job to the MC (unlike the lizard).

Freeza is so much better than vegeta though

>so much better
>loses to Goku
>ever

Attached: yfw losing to the MC who can't even beat his rival.png (667x378, 297K)

Goku beat Vegeta every single time though
vegeta considers all of there fights losses on his side

>feels beat reals
Nice cope, kid. What's it going to be? Crying about Majin? Oozaru? Ignoring SKW? Whinging with regard to SS3? Scrub talk? Futile (all of it). Best to brace yourself, fool.

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based

Hold up dude, are you trying to tell me dragon ball is poorly written and full of sloppy retcons that don't make much sense? Holy shit.

The fake water Tao was given also had one of Korrins boogers in it.

>couldn't refute it
>seethes when seeing the truth
kek.

Based karin.

>humor the subjective
Concede to the objective. AT wills it.

Attached: AT willing Vegeta to always defeat Goku.png (1066x1600, 1.03M)

So no one can be strong without training? Do you seriously want constant training arcs that serve no other purpose other than to justify someone is strong?

He literally let majin vegeta win
and he beat oozaru vegeta

Frankly, it annoyed me.

Attached: oh, oh i see.png (490x343, 99K)

This is one of the best aspects of Dragon Ball.

Remember in the Buu saga when they go to Namek for a final summon and are all like "oh wait, the Namek balls couldn't bring back multiple people at a time!" and the Namekians are like "dude we just remade them to be OMNIPOTENT lmao just get on with the plot"? This is good. Who honestly gives a flying fuck about lore consistency? Dragon Ball just wanted to get to its climaxes and depict fights, and for that it was better than if it tried desperately to justify itself whenever it made a "faux pass"

I personally consider the Oozaru Vegeta fight, if not the entire Vegeta fight, a big win for Vegeta because he was getting absolutely fucked up and every single character was still helpless to stop him. Vegeta himself considers the end of his fight with Goku to be the beam clash though, which he certainly lost. Really, if he had just calmed down and fought Goku without going literally apeshit, he'd have probably won.

With Majin it's hard to say. I don't keep up with DB/a/ culture, so I'm not sure what the consensus is. Are people saying Goku let him win because of 3?

Yeah, honestly, Dragon Ball is the one series where you can go, "Who cares?" to a lot of the mechanical problems.

What bugs me more than anything else is character indescrepancies though. Like teaming up with fucking Freezer.

This reminds me.

Was King Piccolo always an Alien or was it retconned later on during the Namek saga?

I feel like the Red Ribbon arc should have been a completely seperate manga but that's just me.

Healthier people have generally bigger chance of surviving just about anything, so Goku perfecting his body prepared him for this moment in a way.

>The story and the message doesn't matter, they're just there to be a setup for the fights
It's because they're a setup that they matter. Otherwise you could just have eternal tournament with all the setup done in the first chapter. Good setup is essential part of the good fight, that's why authors will "waste" time on showing the antagonist's strength (and often maliciousness) and protagonists training o internal struggle beforehand.

Toriyama said he figured out to make him an alien when Kami appeared (that's also around the time when he started developing Freeza's concept). So initially Piccolo IS a demon, but the unknown language he uses during 23TB is a legit hint towards his alien origins.

>Like teaming up with fucking Freezer.
There's nothing wrong about this. Goku and co. teamed up with a lot of scumbags when situation called for it. What's stupid is allowing him to rebuild his empire afterwards.

Best Dragon Ball era is after dropping that aspect though, but before the arcs got so motherfucking big and contrived and fights went for clear powerlevel wank. So basically 22TB~Saiyan

>proud warrior race
>gets rewarded by loosing

>Jesus died a virgin
doubt

Attached: Del-Parson-Mary-Magdalene-with-Jesus-525w.png (525x697, 625K)

Uh oh! Did somebody say "Ordeal by water"?

>make a thread just to cry and scream about how CHADgon Ball is bad
We literally live rent-free in your canine head.

>he beat Oozaru Vegeta
I see the little pup hasn't yet learned its place.

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Enter CHADren.

Attached: CHADren appears.jpg (735x987, 65K)

lol, cope

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based

first one is the ending of kung fu panda where the secret ingredient is you
second one the magic water is drugs
magic substance is always drugs

I was talking about yajirobe climbing the tower without problem. I don't have any problem with it btw.

I think it would have been better if all of the leaders were Blue levels in strength, or had an ability that made them a threat. Rather than things like Goku one shotting Silver. Also Violet was a cute, and her liking Monkeys should have played into her thinking Goku was kawaii desu.

Attached: images (1).jpg (262x192, 9K)

Yeah you are right on that. It's really weird how it's only blue the one to have an special ability (even more because he doesn't look like the kind of character to have abilities like that). Other bad thing about the arc is how the others characters are sidelined without almost doing anything.

imagine being the savior of earth and going off to die on some shit planet full of green africans cause of an effeminate purple lizard manlet. Your headcanon is shit.

Filler. Goku made short work of him in the Manga.

RR Army would have been best if they were a threat that Goku couldn't just solo on his own. Yamcha and Krillin giving him a hand would have done a lot for their characters at the time, and kept the early power creep somewhat in check; as Goku could still run out of stamina and taking on 500 people with tanks etc at once could have worn him out. Muscle Tower also could have then been more like the Baba arc in it being an E4 style battle with real threats, that they'd have to switch out fighters. Also Violet is a Cute! CUTE!!! Would probably be interesting if we found out that she is Videl's mom.

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Dragon Ball was an adaptation of Journey to the West, a supernatural fable nigger, magic shit happened all the time.

That's nowhere near as much of a red flag as say...Toriyama's crippling addiction to bad filler arcs.

Stop being so fucking ignorant, I almost expect you to start quoting Jirenchad memes next with how stupid you sound.

Didn't Korin have 2 types of water. The one was just normal tap water, then he was like here is the real stuff; and Tao just drank tap water.

Not an argument

Literally is an argument you shitposting nigger.

Enter Jiren.
Enter CHADren.
Enchad CHADren.
ENCHAD RENCHAD.
CHADCHAD CHADCHAD CHA CHAD.

Attached: Ji fucking ren.png (1920x1080, 2.16M)

Holy cringe
>inb4 samefagging with "HOLY BASED!"

Holy FUCKING CHADsed.

HOLY BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED

No it's not. You only said "it's based on x thing so he can do this because the thing it's based on do it too". And goku surviving tht shit has nothing to do with magic, it's just plot armor.

>b-b-but my headcanon CLEARLY states
Don't respond to an intellectual titan like myself without an argument again, you fucking hear me?

>one minute after
Next time don't make it so obvious,i don't like easy wins.

this is a very based post.

>exposed
I won.

>whine and cry about something he doesn't understand because he's a Superbabby
>get BTFO by a logical and astute argument presented in masterful prose
>sperg out, cry, and run away
Like the pup that you are.

B A S E D
A
S
E
D
pic related

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>Shitrendog enters the thread
>It immediately becomes shit
Really makes you think.

>using the same images posted to refute him
Holy concession

They are really good in that.

>good in that
>IESLB
Spotted the ESL camel.

same accusations get the same responses, simple as

>points out threre is a clear difference between "early" db and "later" db. There are clearly 2 different show categories.
>hurr durr all of dragon ball is bad

He's talking only about the original db though.

yeah, of course. What I tried to say was, in late dragon ball the stroy doesn't have to be a meaningful "true magic water was inside you all along" kind of message because the plot isn't there to deliver a message, it's there to make the fights interesting.

True. That's really sad when you think about it.

Yajirobe was legit one of the strongest humans on earth next to Tao, Crane, Roshi, Tien, etc. Dude fucking killed and ate Cymbal.

He only looks like a weak pussy due to power creep of everyone else.

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Yeah, but no one came with a gun that you can shoot in your head to get powers. That poison is one of those mystical things that choose you to get powers, kinda like the stand arrows in Jojo, which can work, but really clashes with the theme of hard work and training by putting Goku as a chosen one. Of course, it could be framed as "if you have trained enough up until now, you might survive it, but no one knows for sure how much do you need to train before you can survive that", so it's debatable.

But this case of "thematic" conflict can also ruin or at least weaken the experience for someone. And it's really a fair position to take. Before that point, while Goku was obviously talented, beyond that he always won through working hard for it (and some ingenuity). This first asspull power up can be jarring for people.

was this chick even in the manga

In like one panel, yeah.

yes

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Doesn't Yu Yu Hakusho pull something like that during the tournament arc?

I just don't like anything about it. Freeza killed not just the bulk of the Saiyan Race, but the Namekians as well, and the only reason they can't call him on that is because so did Vegeta, which in and of itself, should have been addressed, but is less glaring than Freeza becoming an ally.

Freeza, to me, represented a threshold of irredeemable evil. Even though his personality didn't change, something about the fact he was working alongside Goku and Vegeta and Piccolo really rubbed me the wrong way. Of course compromises must happen in real life, but this is a fictional story, and it just comes off as so disrespectful.

Fuck off retard, Boo arc is ten time worse.

But that's the best arc since the 23rd Budokai

I disagree.

I think the Android -> Cell Saga touched on a lot of nice things and it's pretty much the last time everyone on the team gets to contribute in some regard, even if they're all ultimately helpless in the face of Cell and everything comes down to Gohan.

The Father-Son Kamehameha is a really good moment, which is why everyone wanks it, and I can't think of a better capstone to a series like Dragon Ball than Goku passing the role of protector of Earth and strongest under the heavens to his son.

Buu on the other hand, while having some nice things to say about characters like Gohan and Vegeta, meanders on forever and delivers a bombastic and redundant finale.

I don't know if it's just the simple fact that I was exposed to the Android saga while DBZ was airing on television way back in the late 90s and early 2000s, but when I think about leaving off on Namek, it leaves me feeling like something has been left unresolved. It feels strong mind you, but a little too open for my tastes.

Buu saga is the worst cause it throws a lot on the viewers' faces and then proceed to make everyone a jobber.
>introduce the Supreme Kai concept
>literal universal jobbers
>introduce the Majin Vegeta concept
>jobs afterwards
>introduce SSJ3
>it also jobs
>introduce the fusion dance and Gotenks
>other retarded jobber
>sets up for a Mystic Gohan
>changes his personality so another character could job
>introduces the Potara fusion and Vegito
>jobs against Buuhan

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Gotenks is one of the most retarded characters to ever exist in the DB saga.
>"wow look at this literal demon who killed our families and everyone on earth"
>"why don't we play volleyball with him and tease him instead of raping his pink jelly ass?"

Attached: dabs.jpg (896x504, 103K)

>beat Oozaru
see: and >let Vegeta win for 2-0
I know.

Attached: vassal among vassals putting over his prince for 2-0 - he knew what he was doing.jpg (1280x719, 88K)

just seems like much because literally nothing happens in the cell arc

>absolutely fucked up
He should have died. AT forgetting about the multiplier he introduced with the fight against Raditz is one thing, but he had just introduced KK multiplying PLs only to have the 33% stronger KKx3 Goku not only fail to one-shot Vegeta (aside from Kamehameha's 'equal' tying with it), he uses KKx4 for a 77% advantage to land the beam that Vegeta just rides for a bit before hopping off (should have blown right over him). No real damage (save the emotional). Vegeta with an even lesser gap against Dodoria? Unnamed blast insta-kill. Same gap as KKx3 here for Cui? One gut punch into a casual blast (same type as used on a Saibaman) to insta-kill. Absurd that Goku managed so little with such a big gap and multiple hits. Villain plot armor is a Hell of a thing.

>Vegeta thinks of the beam clash as the end
Amusing that he makes the same mistake (in his high standards) as many Gokeks (no rules, Oozaru is natural anyway, vassal has SKW giving him passive Oozaru, etc.). He felt having to use his true full power (nerfed by Power Ball) was too grave an insult to accept as a win. Really, he was over the whole thing when blood was drawn (thus GG coming out) by a low class nobody.

2/4

>calmed down
Not even really that, but outside the anime (only the manga from what I can tell) he laments not being able to hear a conversation Goku was having (where he explains KK). Knowing he couldn't keep up the effort after the KKx4 Kamehameha would have been a difference maker. Just being pig-headed and going at him without transforming while not knowing this would have done it, but made him look a little retarded (too emotional and a bit lucky). Piccolo hearing Raditz and seeing Gohan earlier led to the moon being taken out (and Power Ball being 'forced'). Vegeta's Plan B to use the the thing to transform (for clearing Earth faster) sort of got hosed (and the rest just reap the benefits unwittingly with Vegeta ascribing credit to the incredulous dipshit before him).

>probably won
Vegeta was unhurt at 18K. Goku with great effort could maintain KKx2 (~16K), which we saw getting toyed with earlier when healthy. He would need to land the full power SB somehow (if not for a somewhat unlikely kill, then for weakening himself just to the point of nearly being full drained while Vegeta is damaged enough to be bested...maybe after help arrives). It is a long shot for Goku even with Solar Flare not to have the same problem as before (much less hitting a smaller target who has already shown himself dodging the thing once). Goku's main chance was Vegeta using Power Ball. Had he attacked before the transformation or undone it (destroy the false moon or the tail), he could have pummeled Vegeta the rest of the way given the thing weakened him enough to be somewhat matched by Gohan (who was no problem for a Nappa that was just half-assing his true PL of over 8K).

3/4

>let him win
There are a lot of things that gets said. Out-of-universe, AT hadn't come up with SS3 (and no longer really cared much about this rematch, so it was off-panel). Doubtful he even remembered Vegeta actually won last time as promptly after 1-0 he was writing it as Goku's win (even having Krillin talk like it was rather than even so much as recalling he himself was the last man standing). In-universe, Goku (AT) explains it away as using up way too much power (time in this case). He wanted it to see about Buu (less to fight him, more to teach the kids fusion as if that wasn't just made-up too and out of character for the Goku who clearly didn't care about such a motivation with Uub later). Another consideration is sparing Vegeta's pride as if Goku is so retarded he thinks hiding a form (even if a shitty jobber one like past failed states) that results in a higher PL would be acceptable to his Prince.

When we do see SS3 (which is apparently fine, but not Oozaru), it is able to match Majin Buu and Kid Buu (who both pummel SS2 Vegeta for around a minute or so) for the minute or so Goku uses it (multipliers are not canon, so x4 is out of the window, but the thing having a big gap is hardly unfamiliar territory for Vegeta as noted above) he has this advantage only to have 30 minutes of his 24 hours (with just an hour or so used prior to this by standing around at the tournament) remaining in that brief use of SS3 (ridiculous inefficiency). Against Kid, it drains him to exhaustion, he stops himself, Vegeta stalls and Goku stupidly forgets it was only by being in ideal conditions (dead body in higher plane) he could gather energy for the form. He is taken all the way to base (and unable to put up any sort of fight). These are the two showings of SS3 from Goku in canon (aside from panicking with the expectation he might have to defend against Super Buu, which would be suicide in short order).

4/4

One really wonders if SS3 wouldn't have just defeated Goku (who kept overestimating it and himself while underestimating Buu). As for other copes of 2-0, we have the 'truce' and Majin itself. With the latter, they cry that Vegeta got performance enhancement (some forgetting he played the wizard for it). This while SKW is a (much more notable) thing. No rules. Shame it didn't really pump him to the extent it did Spopo (insane durability and huge PL increase that just didn't shine through elsewhere). Certainly not giving him new powers (ki sensing) or a giant multiplier (passive Oozaru without losing his mind since he can't control it unlike Vegeta). With the former, they forget that combat doesn't have to be honorable fisticuffs. Clever tactics can win the day be it dirt to the eyes, hiding your presence for an ambush or even using verbal deceit. He said they would put their battle on pause and team up on Buu. Goku believes him, gets the beans (as commanded) and gets dropped. Vegeta at least meant the part about fighting again later (if he survived) and himself doesn't feel like he won, but feelings/thoughts don't mean much to the score, I'm afraid. Just something to cope with, ultimately.

In the case he didn't have Majin, SS2 versus Goku would have been a rough one for him (SS3 would have been too much as it should have been even in canon had it existed and Goku been smart with a blitz use if only for a quick, decisive blow to gain the advantage). Not like Vegeta hasn't overcome Goku when he had a PL advantage before, but that was when he had to weather it before having the advantage himself. Definitely would have been uphill compared to what we get in canon. Having superior moves (of his own making) helps, but would it really be enough? Hard to say.

NOTE: Letting Vegeta get power off him for Buu was stupid beyond belief.

For me, it's Frieza. Intelligent, nihilistic, and with a wicked sense of humor.

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>I have never been 8

Attached: SS3 Goku shook by Bejita-sama coming for 3-0 - Leave no doubts about 2-0 - Super Saiyajobber form on (536x635, 152K)

Of course, because if my whole family is killed by a demon I'd definitely play with him instead of just blowing him up if you could.

again, have you never been 8? messing with people you have power over is extremely childish. Most kids would want to humiliate and mess with him as much as possible.

You could argue that Kameheha's power was diminished by Garlick Gun while everyone else took everything head on.

what the fuck is that hairline
it looks like Toriyama just drew Vegeta then added the strand of hair after looking at it realizing "oh fuck this isn't Goku"

Imagine the autism that typing this type of drivel requires.

thank you for providing to the discussion, no go jack off somewhere

>no go jack off
>IESLB
Shut the fuck up and don't let me see you posting your autistic spic babble in MY threads again.

>discussion
There is no discussion, you're just posting walls of headcanon babble. You're a fucking retard.

>imagine having so little to live for that you assume ownership of a thread on Yea Forums
Man, I don't even want to insult you any more. Also, that was just a typo in my post, I obviously meant "now". But seriously, do you need help?

youtube.com/watch?v=tR1nHnEL3PM

>i-i-it was just a typo
Silence, you fucking ESL dog. You're adding falsehood and deceit to the long list of transgressions inflicted upon your divine master now? Are you fucking mad? You think this is some sort of game? Do you think your godlike and benevolent, yet stern and unyielding master is playing a game with you, dog? Are you seeking to tempt fate by deliberately flouting the decrees illustrated by your MOST superior master? You fucking fool. You utter buffoon. You will regret this malfeasance, dog. Now get BACK to your kennel forthwith. Your master commands you.

are you erect now? pretending to have power over something that you couldn't even imagine to control?

Quiet, pet. The temerity of your tomfoolery and blatant disregard for the due decorum established as a beacon lighting the way to obedience has briefly amused your superior master, but his patience has ebbed and waned like the flow of the tide. Now, dog, you will show, with nary a complaint or argument, how very quiet you can be should your deific and godlike master demand it. Silent as the grave, pet. Turn forthwith and trudge shamefully back to your kennel, and reside there in perpetuity as you reflect with great recalcitrance and pure, unadulterated opprobrium upon your audacity at having flouted your most benevolent and superior master's sagacious decrees. Go at once. AT ONCE, dog. Your master commands you.

I don't even read your posts anymore :)

>admitting that the broad and peerless lexicon of your most superior master confounds your mind into impotence
Good pup. Not everyone can be on my level.

SKW = sacred water right?

Vegeta is the one that crawled away like a bitch so goku won

Not one of his best, certainly. Gets it right here, but would quickly forget about the random visible iris he gave Goku in SS3.

Attached: and this...is to job...even further beyond - carrot wasting his prince's time.jpg (366x300, 64K)

>B-B-BUT W-W-WHAT CANON DICTATES DOESN'T MATTER ONLY MY HEADCANON
Nice.

Not them but I didn't really understand it either.

>with Vegeta ascribing credit to the incredulous dipshit before him
Made me laugh though.

>the ESL thinks "your a fucking retard" is correct
Get back to Mexico.

>tries to correct someone's grammar
>realizes he fucked up
>deletes his post

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The Cell Saga is when it dropped the adventure aspect so I agree

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>implying is me
I accept your concessions.

Such is the knock one gets when shaking wake-up fog.

>not DB reaction
What were you thinking?

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>this pathetic damage control
You're an ESL and everyone now knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're an ESL. Go back to mowing, spic.

is this from cell.

>no argument
That was easy, but then there isn't one to be made. 2-0 was AT's will. Unavoidable, really.

Attached: Concessionku - Surrenders to his Prince.jpg (934x500, 137K)

>n-n-no I'm j-j-just tired
I could be falling asleep at my desk and not confuse "your" and "you're", you fucking Mexican.

>W-WHY WON'T YOU ARGUE AGAINST MY HEADCANON

It's almost like Toriyama was done with the series by the time of Z, but was forced to continue. OH, WAIT.

Super Kami Water (SKW) in this case. A few names for it, but nothing too unusual about that issue.

Attached: SKW giving Goku passive Oozaru for x10 and ki sensing.jpg (1066x3244, 1.06M)

>crawled away
From whom? Certainly not this guy who ended up like this:

Attached: broken carrot in bandages - patheticku is 0-1 against his Prince.png (269x219, 57K)

Attached: bloomer telling it like it is - desert dog needs to step it up.jpg (174x459, 39K)

>no argument
Please, your concession were already accepted.

>argue against facts
Good luck. How about something more meaningful? Care to speculate on how 3-0 will go down (per AT's will)?

Attached: gonna make my prince look so good - 3-0 to put him over the top.jpg (341x512, 82K)

*concessions
Bit my tongue.

Attached: prince vegeta's greatest ally - dirt-sama - fighting dirty gets results, scrubs.jpg (491x170, 42K)

He was done with the series when Goku beat Frieza.

>your concession were already accepted
>IESLB
Kneel.

>this head canon again

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>he just keeps showing evidence of his ESL beanery

>officially kneeling before his master Bejita-sama

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>N-NO U
Quiet, ESL.

>Having temper tantrums on a Scandinavian basket weaving board

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>newfag DARES to intrude upon the den of wit and wisdom
OUT.

>Acting like a furry in an ERP thread

OUT, I said. Your master will NOT ask again.

Stay mad.

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>He said, lifting the hem of his fursuit so he could smelly his shitty diaper.
>he savoured the rare opportunity of being home alone for once, his mother didn't leave home all that often.

>newspic blogposting about his life in the CHADS' DEN
Disgusting. OUT.

>He wrote excitedly, noticing just now that his diapy was filling up once more. He stood up and enjoyed the sensation of his shitty diaper on his loins as he roleplayed vehemently.

King Piccolo is a good villain but his entire arc felt pretty slapdash honestly, and the magic water just marked the beginning of an absurd power creep that would unfortunately come to define Dragon Ball as a series

SSJ2 Gohan exists

*kneeled

Saiyan arc is where Dragon Ball peaked though

>S-Stop bullying my hero Gokek with facts
They're pathetic.

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>writing that you own a thread isn't pathetic somehow

I don't know about all that, but Vegeta is undefeated against Goku (2-0).

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Retard.
The water in Karin's tower was fake but the water he gets from Kami isn't.

Neck yourself Toonamifag

Correct and redpilled

That is one of the gayest moments in all of Dragon Ball so you're wrong.

>Honestly, it would have made his redemption more believable that he only really cared about stopping Frieza.
Nah fuck redemption.
Vegeta was fine when he was a villain.
He only wanted to become immortal to enjoy battling forever when he was first introduced. He was a Chad character but then he was made into a domesticated bitch of a husband because Toriyama hated him.

seething cuckgetafag

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BASED
A
S
E
D

Good, 18 was a mistake. Fuck that robot roastie.
Even Toei gave him a superior girlfriend.

>that's also around the time when he started developing Freeza's concept
No the fuck it isn't.
Read the Saiyan saga and you'll see this isn't the case.
It was said that Planet Vegeta was destroyed by a Meteor which later got retconned into Freeza destroying it.

>The anime tried to redeem that by making it more harder to achieve but is still pretty out of nowhere.
This. Honestly, a lot of the anime "filler" in Dragon Ball (Not Z) significantly improved the story.

Pretty much. King Piccolo's arc works because of the man himself, and how different it is compared to everything else before it. But the actual story is flawed at best.

I don't like post-Namek Vegeta so you're wrong.
Girls being fighters is just gay as shit. Toriyama turned into a faggot, I remember when he made fun of fighting women with Ranfan in the Tenkaichi Budokai that was when Toriyama was based.

>So basically 22TB~Saiyan
You're so wrong.
DB didn't drop the adventure aspect until Z.

Found the gay.

Red Ribbon Army saga IS the best one.
Pilaf saga was like a prototype of it.

Literal retard.

Saiyan and Freeza are the only good arcs since 23rd Budokai.
Buu is trash but Cell is the worst one.

Gotenks is cool. His character makes sense.
I'd argue Gotenks and Vegetto are the only 2 good things in this whole arc.

Today I will remind them
kanzenshuu.com/intended-end/

This was always dumb.
Why did they take so long to give him a senzu bean?

Even Namek saga had a bit of an adventure aspect to it with Bulma, Krillin and Gohan going to another planet to find the Dragon Balls.

>blaming us
Just lashing out wildly, I see. Much like the doll, I suspect you're tsundere for the short, black-haired Prince (her top fetish embodied).

His desire to check Vegeta with humiliation outweighed his usual aversion (not even like she had a particularly good fight as she relied on her cyborg status to tire him out and then just began trampling him with the advantage gained). The moment it passed, he let her (without a fight) be a simple damsel (anime let her struggle, but that ain't canon) then bug food (later spot out in disgusting fashion).

She never even throws a punch in the future (does get turned to chocolate and eaten, though). Worse, she got stuck with a nose-less freak. She may not have gotten the same ryona treatment as Videl (or a pathetic RO handling and terrible marriage like Chi-Chi), but she got punished. Make no mistake about that.

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Most of the 'adventure' was in the filler. Because they ran up against people so far out of their league so quickly, it was more about Vegeta (action) handling business (with them trying not to die) while Goku got his shit together.

Yeah his hatred of Vegeta is autistic. He turned him into a lame domesticated pup.

But Krillin suffered the worst, he ruined Krillin by making him a bitch in that arc. This is the biggest reason I hate that arc with the force of a thousand suns. It was such a slap in the face to long time fans.

Of course retarded degenerate Amerifats Normalfags don't mind this because they only watched Z.

>Most of the 'adventure' was in the filler.
Nope.
To me Gohan and Krillin using strategy against Vegeta and the way they hid the dragon balls and such(Vegeta did this too when he hid some of them underwater) was the adventurous aspect. Like how they would fly for hours to get to places because Namek was fuckhuge and they still weren't that fast yet and shit like that.

Namek just had more to it like it or not.

Actually he was planned as an alien from the start. Toriyama mentioned when he made his throne with the skulls he had decided the Guru would sit in the same throne but without skulls. This was also when he came up with the idea of Saiyans and most of the Namek saga.

>turned Krillin into a bitch
And still rewarded him for it. At least he wasn't made to piss himself here.

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>To me

Kill yourself headcanon-tard.
kanzenshuu.com/translations/daizenshuu-4-akira-toriyama-super-interview/

>Speaking of Piccolo, did you think from the beginning of his background as a Namekian alien?

>Of course, I didn’t think that at all (laughs). The Saiyans were like that as well. When I thought up Goku’s tail and the Ōzaru, I didn’t think Goku was an alien or anything. Piccolo either. Because I thought that up when God came out.

>Mostly afterwards, I thought it through so that it would be consistent. For example, there’s the chair that Planet Namek’s Eldest sat in. That was mostly the same as the chair that Piccolo Daimaō had sat in when he first appeared. It was just missing the skulls.

This ain't a reward. He basically hooked him up with an ugly robot bitch. Even Toei gave him a better girlfriend.

Point is he ruined his character. Fuck Toriyama for that forever.

Going to a completely different planet can never be non-adventurous.

He certainly thought he was rewarding him. Maybe he saw Toei's filler (where he gets treated like a cuck).

He only got treated like a cuck because the knew it was filler and they couldn't have him and Maron get together.
Maron clearly liked him though.

I don't like how Krillin became expandable trash because the story got so complicated and stupid that he needed to pull some bullshit to justify it.

I hate what he did to Bulma for the same reason. He ruined her just to introduce another Saiyan.
Sure Bulma was always a whore but even she had her limits and pairing her with a guy who killed her friends(whether directly or indirectly) was stupid.

But it wasn't real. It was literally poison. It only worked because Zenkai boost.

>Vegeta is undefeated against Goku
which is why vegeta is perpetually obsessing over needing to beat Goku in a fight, yes.

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Karin's water wasn't real, Kami's water was.

>feels
Reals, nigga. 2-0.

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>zenkai boost gave him passive Oozaru and ki sensing

>had to punk him out when sending her away owed to filler
>Maron clearly liked him
I don't know about all that.

>expendable only as of then
Wasn't his first time getting shit on like this by AT. Remember Dracula?

>whore
Certainly acted the part. Also, come on...Yamcha was a cheater.

>whether
Indirectly, but not for lack of trying to directly do so.

Dude, I like Jiren but please stop posting cringe shit like this. You make people who genuinely like Jiren despite his numerous flaws look bad by association.

As much as I LOATHE DB evolution, I...actually do like the design of Goku's gi in it for some reason. I really wish I didn't.

a person can restart their own heart if they're still conscious but it requires great effort to perform self-cpr

DBS/DBZ posting in a DB thread should be illegal.

Fuck off Super/Z niggers! We're full!

There's a theory that, because the super miracle water kills basically anyone who drinks it, Korin stopped giving it to people and instead used the fakeout in its place, since many people had climbed the tower with the goal of drinking the water. However in this case desperate times calls for desperate measures and Korin finally decides to bring out the real deal and subject Goku to it.

18 humiliated Vegeta before he tired himself out though. Just look at this. Embarrassing.

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Also, Freeza was created only once Toriyama decided Vegeta was too popular to be killed off.

Note how things go from

>we clean planets and sell them to aliens
to
>we clean planets for Freeza who handles the planet selling business

Vegeta also initially described himself as the strongest in the universe.

Attached: FreezaTrueOrigin.jpg (600x835, 152K)

>Girls being fighters is gay
Yeah! You just want to see these big muscular guys grappling and flexing! Women are fucking gay, bro.

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It kind of feels like modern Toriyama is a really "status quo is god" guy. I think this is the main difference between younger Toriyama and older Toriyama.

Gods used to appear just to be useless and quickly surpassed, an emperor of the universe was around just to be kicked away as soon as he debuted. Nowadays it feels like positions like that are all pretty secure and the cast will just lie with it even if they have issues with them.

Even clash with both holding back, she begins evading to tire him, they cut loose, picture related, vegeta slaps her about (jacking up her clothing as he expends much more energy), goes back to defensive to tucker him further (with Piccolo pointing it out) and then flips to offense (the embarrassment begins). You should probably re-read the manga and not just hurry to post from it, friend. I should like to think I don't need to post the whole thing since you didn't read before making yours.

He's certainly not going to be having a heroine have the fight raped out of her like that one manga of his. That won't be happening again.

She was toying with him before this point. They fight for 3 pages and Vegeta gets a single light punch in. He's still perfectly fresh. Then she doesn't even feel his punch and obliterates him. It's made even worse in the anime where she just keeps him pinned on her finger.

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>she was toying with him
>just went over how this was right after both cut loose
>right after this exchange he begins slapping her about
>she goes back to defensive to tire him out
You're just dumb, then. I bother to cover it, but you still want to go panel by fucking panel. By all means. Post them all. Read the manga and my post .

>anime-only filler makes it worse
Imagine that. I'm just surprised you didn't make the mistake of going with that (more what I was expecting than just following with the exchange you already posted).

He lands a punch again after getting absolutely ridiculed in That's not a close fight, that's getting trampled like a bitch.

This is a Spic Ball thread. These retards are the biggest bunch of closet homos on the Internet.

>1st Zenkai boost after fighting Goku takes Vegeta from like ~18K to ~24K
>2nd Zenkai boost after fighting Zarbon takes him from ~24K to ~30K
>3rd Zenkai boost after fighting Recoome takes him from ~30K to ~500K

Explain this.

CHADren willed it.

As already noted, the Pickle lays it on the line. Having his arm broken, being tossed about, etc. is the embarrassment. To get any before he tires you would need to resort to talk of the anime-only addition you brought up. The doll not quite selling an attack isn't much (you overstate the matter, but perhaps this is what you're going on about for this stance).

>give me the blow by blow
Spoiling you rotten:

>Both holding back

-18 engages
-mutual blocked/evaded attacking
-she whiffs and gets tossed -she evades, blocks and then gets punched
-evades his blast

NOTE: He lands a throw and strikes her. She gets nothing.

>Both cut loose

-18 engages with a headbutt
-Vegeta goes for resulting in NOTE: She lands a headbutt, knee and palm. He lands a punch. All told, 3 to 3 in 'Round 1'. Even. Mind you, the doll looks clean, still.

>chapter calls for Round 2
>the tiring begins

-18 lands a strike
-Vegeta counters with a headbutt into a hammer fist to ki blast
-Doll blocks a kick and goes back to tiring him as he flails
-Piccolo spells it out (tiring strats) for the kids in the audience
-18 blocks then goes with a low sweep to punch
-Infamous arm break kick

NOTE: Here 18 is 4 to Vegeta's 3. Her shit is all fucked up (destroyed attire and disheveled looks), but no true body damage is visible (bleeding and such). Obviously not tired (cyborg). Vegeta has visible damage even before the arm break.

>Free-for-All
>humiliation while tired continues

-Various non-Vegeta/18 people try things
-Vegeta (backing up Tien against 17, amusingly) ignores 18 and gets tossed into Trunks for it
-Vegeta tries a surprise blast, it is evaded and 18 gives him a forearm
-With no fight left in him, 18 gut kicks him and steps for another arm break

NOTE: 18 takes advantage to get overkill points on her way to the prize (seeing the blonde fade and the lovely raven hair come out to play). 4 more points to none to seal the deal.

Attached: toaster thinking of her tiny, raven-haired prince in those tight outfits - too handsome to approach (297x312, 130K)

Reminder Cowardku didn't go fight the androids because his prince couldn't beat hem

>getting this buttblasted to try and justify getting humiliated by a toaster
18 literally just stood there to let Vegeta give his best shot but it wasn't enough to satisfy her. She didn't even stop smirking. The "prince" was like a child fighting an adult, except he was the adult fighting a little girl.

>18 literally just stood there to let Vegeta give his best shot but it wasn't enough to satisfy her. She didn't even stop smirking. The "prince" was like a child fighting an adult, except he was the adult fighting a little girl.

How sad. To work so hard, for so little.

Objectively speaking Vegeta scored a psychological victory over 18

>1st Zenkai
Of his life, I'd wager. Can't say the same for Gokek. I still have to finish tallying up reasonably qualified instances for the full recovery. That's a lot of checking around. Not every defeat will make the cut, obviously (doesn't have to be near death despite the talk, but does have to be a severe beating as with Ginyu-Goku or Recoome on Vegeta).

>third takes him to around equal with most restrained Frieza form
Hell of a thing. The increase in his second zenkai was only a bit less than the first (not as bad of a beating) suggests in terms of percentage. The third case wasn't even life threatening, but I suppose AT ran out of time (and needed him strong enough right away with the absurd PLs already established). He shouldn't even be 40K after what Recoome did to him (that would be pushing it unless he got some more serious damage) based on this pattern for growth, but that is if you accept two as a pattern (rather than three where it all falls apart in this case).

We don't have canon PLs for early Goku. Don't know that he did or did not get one after dying with Raditz (you wouldn't think it would, but you never know if his body get the gain until AT chimes in). Training with King Kai masks it further. He gets what? Another four (I'd have to check) zenkai while doing that probably pointless gravity training? His base (with all these) went from 'over 8K' to 90K. Unless Goku was getting much higher gains (and coming stupidly close to death), I wonder how reasonable his gains (even with the training) really were. Having that last ass kicking from Vegeta sent him from 90K to a point he could (with KKx10) somewhat face Final Form Frieza (Vegeta needed another zenkai to perceive this foe, with another still only maybe letting him perform to the level we see that clown at). Can't assign values, sadly. Non-canon at this point (what a pity). Ultimately, AT was just doing things as it pleased him (only SPC got one after this).

He was too busy jobbing to a cold Vegeta probably gave him (hidden 2-0). Immunelet that he is.

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>Psychological victory
Literally screeched and seethed and flew off to throw a tantrum out in the wastelands until Goku showed up and told him how to get a years worth of 'gittin' gud' in a day. Sorry, I'm not seeing it, senpai.

Can we all just appreciate the fact Goku gained the ability to read minds by training in high gravity?

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>implying they're both me

>no argument
Nor should you even try, thus here we are.

I'd like to think you don't believe is me, too. Certainly gives that impression (like a paranoid schizo).

>throws tantrum
Yes, childishly fed her to the bug, too. Dick move, I know. Imagine how it must have wounded her to see him selling her out for kicks. I wonder if she would have preferred a personal beatdown for 1-1 to that experience. Ultimately, he didn't think enough of it to even kill her when spat out (covered in goo), but did tell the Chestnut as much should be done.

He certainly got a rise by saying she isn't a woman (and fucking up her attire/hair). The tallies are covered .

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>several dragon ball threads on Yea Forums
>not a single one of them has circlejerks, characterfags, etc.
What the fuck happened here?

These two are me.
Anyways, sorry, not the dude you were talking to. just an user who came in and was having a giggle.

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That whole thing about 13 people dying from it was filler?

>having a giggle
I understand the sentiment. See:

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