WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS BULLSHIT? THIS IS FUCKING STUPID...

oh no

i cant believe gilgamesh dies in a stupid way due to his arrogance or an unexpected twist in the holy grail war rules

this has literally

literally

never happened before

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>Gilkek secondary seething

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Gill's thing is twofold
A) despite having every noble phantasm, he's only actually good with EA.
B) because of his pride, he considers resorting to EA to be admitting his opponent is on peer with himself, which he is loathe to admit
It's like if Frieza flat-out refused to use his final form unless absolutely necessary only to die to Goku's spirit bomb

to put it another way, Gilgamesh can't achieve his full potential unless he has Enkidu acting as a voice of reason he actually respects. His whole myth is that until he met Enkidu he was a narcissistic moron and absolutely shitty king, and as soon as he lost him he lost all his brain cells with him

Sure but they should have properly adapted it at least.
A proper adaption wouldn't have just been Gil's leg being eaten, but all of Gil rapidly.

Sakura fucking dies if he takes her seriously at all like he would if he just lost a fucking limb.
Anti-regen wrecks her shit.

He doesn't need to be good with them if he's just shooting swords out of GoB.
That is only a problem against Shirou inside UBW and nowhere else.

He literally exists to job to everyone.
A small dog with arthritis could beat him if the plot needed it to.

Because Sakrua can kill him faster than he could anyway. You think there's a difference between eating his leg and him whole? Nope.
Servants can't do shit against the shadow, that's all, she can devour them in the time it takes them to prepare whatever NP they could come up with.

>that is only a problem against shirou inside ubw and nowhere else

did you miss the part where lancelot effortless counters GoB using knight of owner in fate/zero

gate of babylon is an extremely good noble phantasm for countering other legendary weapons just simply on the basis that older = better but when faced with any ability that involves generating clones of or redirecting the swords he fires, gilgamesh has no chance of winning without EA

Gil could have trashed Lancelot if he sent more weapons, like against Heracles. Lancelot have a limit of weapons he can control. Just the usual case of Gil not being serious.

He literally almost kills her in the VN.
He only dies because he goes super retard and draws a single sword to finish her off and gets eaten close range.
If he realises she can regenerate, she doesn't get up again after being hit by Anti-Regen weapons. Harpe would be fitting.
Gil can just up the quantity and quality and Jets gets raped.
Or he can actually use the NPs and Jets gets raped.
GoB is bullshit OP.
Only Shirou and Enkidu can somewhat counter it straight up.

>So?
>Shirou can beat the grail.
No, Shirou can't. Not even in UBW. Shirou never fought against the greater grail, or Angry Manjew, and Sakura has pretty much become an avatar of it by this point. The greater grail is a near infinite mana reservoir made of pure evil, and there aren't many things that can withstand near infinite mana. Even in UBW, when a Grail's avatar is incorrectly actualized, Gil needs to unsheathe Ea out to fight it.

In addition to that basic observation, the Grail's powers are specifically told, numerous times, in all the routes, VN and animes, to be anathema to servants. Servants were created by the power of the Grail: thus the Grail can absorb or destroy them ridiculously easily.

Gil never thought that Sakura was that close to being a fully actualized avatar of the Grail. He dismissed her. Would he not, he would have blasted her with Ea pretty much instantly. Unfortunately, he underestimated her, and was absorbed like a little bitch.

I feel like gil's lightning dragon would BTFO sakura

>He only dies because he goes super retard
Because that's gil's personality, nevermind the shadow is like some kind of animal not-controlled by a sleeping girl.

If he got his leg eaten, he would easily destroy her.
That's effectively just letting him know she's a huge threat.
You can just destroy the Greater Grail with a heavily degraded fake Excalibur.

Gil was just fucking about with Ea.

he doesn't even shoot his swords at super-sonic speed. hell, half the time he just shoots like 12 swords at a time because he gets an egogasm from toying with his foes

if you want to look at it another way, think of how Gil was already constantly resisting the corruption of the Angra Grail, and all Dark Sakura's attacks have the same attributes as the Angra Grail, kinda like how in Thank You For Smoking, the main character survives being slapped with dozens of nicotine patches because as a heavy smoker he had a high nicotine tolerance, but it was still such a strain on his body that any single cigarette from then on could potentially kill him

Why didnt Gilgamesh use any of his other noble phantasms, etc Enduki or Ea on Sakura? He was giving an impression that Sakura was way too dangerous to handle with

Yes I know, I'm saying the movie did a shitty job of showing it.
Gil should've won with the way they portrayed it.
Sakura would die to a second GoB barrage from a pissed off Gil and Gil would likely attempt to get some distance.
His pride is only a hindrance if he doesn't see a threat, upon getting his leg munched, he should see a threat.

They just wanted to give him more screen time...

Why

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OH NO NO NO GILBROS!! THIS CANN"T BE HAPENNING!! I'M LITERALLY SHAKING RIGHT NOW!!

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Because he's best boy

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I must say powerwise Lancelot is really badass. Dude embarrassed Gil 2 times they fought, then nearly killed Artoria if not for his suckass master (though you could say that Artoria was shocked and couldnt use her full power that time)

Fate powerlevels? Really? Next you're going to argue Jojo powerlevels

King of heroes? More like King of (fate/) Zeros.

1. Shiro can't beat the grail.
2. Gill DID kill Sakura. The grail didn't let her stay dead.
3. Gil didn't know he was fighting the completed avatar. Had he known he would have used Ea from the start.

Literally got too cocky.

>WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS BULLSHIT?
Bad writing,you should get used to it.

>people are responding seriously to obvious bait

What a shocking twist of events

who could have foreseen such an unexpected and irrational thing

wow

Gil is meant to be final boss material. Not some jobber who dies halfway through.

kek

That only happened because Gil was told to come back through the power of a command seal by Tokiomi. If he wasn't told to retreat, he would've opened his gate further and Lancelot gets killed. This is even mentioned.

>Why didnt Gilgamesh use any of his other noble phantasms, etc Enduki or Ea on Sakura?

arrogance

>has clairvoyance
>still jobbing

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Because this is the only opportunity Giggles would have killed Sakura

But he didnt

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Yeah but he already had his two final boss fights by this point and nobody's interested in a third one.

>Shirou can counter GoB because he uses more swords
Bitch, what if Lancelot just duel wields machine guns? Automatic weapons should be faster than GoB

He doesn't use it on purpose as the jobber he is.

Depends on how serious Gilgamesh is at the moment.
If he's really off his guard, sure, that'll work.
If he's on guard, he'll pull out some fancy shield to block them.
If he's fully serious, he'll have already set up automatic countermeasures that shoot down all incoming hazards whether he's aware of them or not. (He literally does this exact thing in Strange Fake. Because Enkidu's around he wasn't taking chances.)

He could have used Ea from the start and just erased Sakura and Angry Man Jew.

Do we even have speed info about projectiles in Fate? The only one I remember is Archer's Hrunting that traveled 4 kilometers in less than 1 second.

The shit Gilgamesh pulls out when fighting Alcides and Richard is so fucking cool. I want to see the lightning dragon animated

and that is why it's the worst route
studio agreed by not making a full season out of it

This. Gil by himself is an arrogant idiot. Gil when he has Ekindu around is an absolute beast that will take you out in a second, least there's a 0.1% that Ekindu might get hurt.

It's a simple trope: character is 1000% more efficient when he has someone to protect.

Gilgamesh forgot that he isn't the main villain, Angra Mainyu is.

He's also one of the heroic spirits with the highest number of hard counters, becausw he relies so heavily on the Gate if Babylon. Sure, you're fucked if you can't counter that. But if you can, he's worthless. And Angra Mainyu can.

>He's also one of the heroic spirits with the highest number of hard counters, becausw he relies so heavily on the Gate if Babylon
What counters it aside from UBW and Gil's own stupidity?

Knight of Owner, Angra Mainyu's corruption, and Avalon for sure. I think I saw somebody mention some Divine shit that happens in FGO. And there was a thread a few days ago where people made a decent case for the Gem Sword being a counter.

I remember that he literally ignores any clairvoyance that shows him something he doesn't like.

Pelt of the Nemean Lion.

Eh, those are not hard counters that make him worthless. They only work when he's in jobbing mood massively holding himself back.

Ishtar can apparently rip him of the authority to even use the Gate.

>AND JOBS TO THE WORMSLUT WITH HER RAPE POWER UP.
I mean he jobs in literally every route. That's sort of the point

But Alcides lost to Gil. GoB isn't just sword spamming, but all the noble phantasms in the gate with their various abilities.
That's because he threw the key to the GoB away and she picked it up. It falls under his own stupidity category.

>More like the avatar of the grail
imagine being absorbing chuuni shit so thoroughly you actually think this is in any way a meaningful sentence

>192438064

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>Knight of Owner
Lol no, Lancelot dies if Gil gets serious.
>Manjew corruption
Nope, he could tear Sakura to shreds if he got serious
>Avalon
Avalon is pretty explicitly the ultimate defensive ability, even then, if Gil keeps his distance Saber dies.
>Gem Sword
You absolute fucking imbecile.

>Gil is meant to be final boss material
Not in this route

>He was giving an impression that Sakura was way too dangerous to handle with
Yeah he knew she was "dangerous" but remember to Gil, Dangerous means 'slightly troublesome' not 'she can literally kill me'

>But Alcides lost to Gil. GoB isn't just sword spamming, but all the noble phantasms in the gate with their various abilities.
He can't activate any and all of them freely. Some have on switches, others don't and you need to get a feel for them with years of training to do their trick. He's an owner, not a user.

Any ruler class servants can just command seal spam orders to kill himself, and most divine servants can probably bypass the gate with pure firepower (karna for example). I have no doubts that servants with the potential to be grand servants (king hassan etc) could also beat gil without much trouble.

OH NO NO GILBROS AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

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You're correct that he can't utilize many of his treasures to full potential, but reducing GoB to just sword spam isn't correct either.

Edit of this with Gil when?

>Karna
>pulls out Akhilleus Kosmos
Nothin personal.

Gilgamesh rapes all Servants.

He can ignore command seals with his ego and also has magic resistance items so.

It's hilarious how Gilfags get BTFO over and over again and all they can do is write fanfiction about their jobber.

Wouldn’t divine spirits like Karna get shut down pretty hard by enkidu though?

Not the Buddha.

Not sure Vasavi Shakhti can beat Enuma Elish.

List all the Servants stronger than Gilgamesh at this point. I'll start:

Solomon
Gramps
Merlin
Quetz
Scat
Anastasia
Ivan
Qin
Sigurd
Arjalter
Super Karna
Dib's nameless Grand

Off the top of my head. Anyone I'm missing?

>series is always talking about how amazing mages are and noble
>literally never do anything of any note, have no power in modern society and are basically a bunch of inbred hicks who get played around with by the Grail
>Mana and Servant stats are also fucking meaningless. Shirou, Saber and Rin plot armor > everything.

Aren’t grand servants and LB Kings ultra strong because of the container they’re summoned into? I don’t know if some of those would actually win without having that mega buff

>gramps
kill yourself for the name reddit
>merlin
in a direct fight I doubt it
>scathach
oh so you're just trolling

In the VN he only loses because he thinks Sakura is dead, and turns his back to walk away. This scene is made a gag later in CCC, when he tells BB he wouldn't turn his back at her. They tried to make the shitty Shadow more impressive in the movies though.

Shiki (Assassin)

I thought he approached with a sword to finish her off in melee and got shadowganked as soon as she recovered.

Nigga the entire franchise beats you over the head with the fact that mages are terrible people with no sense of ethics or morals.

Saber and Berseker lasted 5 minutes, what makes you think he'd do any better?

Considering the weakened corpse of Solomon is Grand tier, no. And King Hassan isn't dead, he has a natural superior saint graph. Lostbelt Kings likewise are alive. They are beings who are just plain stronger while Gil alive isn't as durable as he is a Servant for example.

ScatSkadi is a thing user.

It's why Rin is a shitty magus.
She's way too kind hearted.

Gil is actually better up against Shadow because he can't be corrupted unlike them. Sakura had to quickly munch him so that he won't tear her from inside.

He had decapitated her already. She was dead after clinging to life, instead of a returned zombie. And the whole whole scene is immediate. He is careless and doesn't notice the shadow sneaking up and swallows him, there's no dragged scene it consumes NPs or anything like that, it's an ambush attack. The Shadows has never taken a single Servant on its own in a direct confrontation.

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It's somewhat debatable. Merlin and Hassan had more impact in the fight against Tiamat than any other Servant (so much so that Tiamat had to try and kill Merlin first to counterattack effectively), and they weren't even properly summoned as Grands. Merlin was actual avalon Merlin and Hassan was alive too. Solomon's Caster version doesn't show any notable difference between its Saint Graph and his corpse that faked a Grand Caster Saint Graph either.

Even when he was downgraded from grand assassin to regular assassin, king hassan is an extremely high tier servant. He was able to match camelot knights in swordplay without any trouble and he still his access to his saint graph after the downgrade.

Before this Sakura gets decapitated by Gilgamesh and she's dead. He lowers his guard because she's fucking dead, there's no a sign of struggle.

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grand servants are ultra badass. I expect no jobber from them. Once you are strong enough to be grand candidate, you at least have to be able to dance off with Gil

>Cope,dilate and have sex incel.

this is skadi, not scat
and unless she has the king of the lostbelt status, I'm not sure she could beat gil

>But Alcides lost to Gil
Gilkek at its finest

I guess he should've used anti-regen shit
Fucking jobber.
Oh well, the way the movie showed it was fucking stupid.
He shouldn't have been given a chance to react.

That's just headcanon.
The grand Servants are plainly stated as the top Seven Heroic Spirits (note Heroic Spirits). A lot of them in life had a superior Saint Graph already (Solomon, Hassan, Merlin, while Gilgamesh didn't). Qin also is alive and makes himself a superior saint graph which takes all mystery in LB, plus the Fussang, his knowledge and perfecting a True Ancestor body to build. The sheer bullshit of a superior saint graph is superior to divine spirits but obviously below Beast saint graphs.

Every creature has a saint graph, by the way. It's not just a Servant thing.

>AHHHHHH ISHTAR SAMA PLEASE SAVE ME
>AHHHHHH NO THE HYDRA VENOM AHHH MY SANITY

I fucking despise FGO.

Why didn't this fuck just whoop Zouken ass and blow up the Matou house with Berserker anyways?

Looks like just what he wanted.

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I HATE IT

Because the true zouken is the worm inside sakuras heart idiot.

Yeah it was immediate because the Shadow was fucking scared of Gilgamesh. And so was Sakura. It panicked and went full survival mode.

This was after, it began with the feet but it was imediately crept up without a chance to react as he was distracted with his back turned to the shadow. Gilgamesh didn't launch any attack of the Shadow would have died. That's all the Shadow/Sakura thoughts overlapped that he can easily kill them.

The movie tries to hype up the shadow when it's really not a big deal. If Saber had excaliblasted it, there wouldn't be any shadow anymore. The holy quality would have BTFO it. Shadow only attacked Saber when Saber was distracted instead of the first time Saber enconters it in the Temple with Archer.

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Didn't Zouken place crest worms into Sakura at this point?

GoB is getting cucked by Richard right now in Strange/Fake too. Gil will never catch a break.

I'm watching UBW series for the first time now since I caught up with the HF movies.

Is UBW Rin focused? because she is the worst thing in this entire franchise. I don't know if I can handle 24 episodes of this boring bitch.

This doesn't mean you can't summon those same HS with a lower Saint Graph, as how a shit Master summons King Arthur and weakens her with Shirou. But on default, their stats are stronger because they were strongest in life too, they don't give such position to just any random shitter.

She's main supporting character so to say.

I still fucking despise FGO.

not it doesn't
gil's lightning dragon destroyed richard

She's the main heroine/love interest in UBW, but Archer is more the focus.

>Is UBW Rin focused?

It focuses on redman

Rin is alright.
She's a Classic Tsundere.

stay mad loser

But Gil blocks Richard’s excaliblasts easily and whips him with a lightning dragon

Why the does Gilgamesh have a fucking lightning dragon in GoB? Where is the translation for the new FSF chapter? Is it even completed?

kudos to you Gilkeks for being a laughing stock here and in Yea Forums

Gil has everything in GoB.

He has the entire nuclear arsenal of humanity too, probably.

What lightning dragon? Translations right now are Richard blitzing through GoB with sheer speed.

Grand Servant is in Nip "Crown Station Heroic Spirits". They are fairly another classification. Gil's still the strongest of the regular HS, but this doesn't include the Divine, Beast or Crown Station.

Lostbelt Kings are alive too, and a lot of them are just bullshit. Arjuna Alter/God Arjuna became a composite deity and wrapped his world into a cycle to purge evil before he accelerated it, Qin conquered the world and everything became Qin, etc.

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What if iraq really did have weapons of mass destruction but gilgamesh stole them for the gate.

What if gilgamesh was indirectly responsible for 9/11

It's her route, so yeah.

>even richard is stronger than artoria
the round table was a mistake

>rewatching F:Z
Holy shit little Rin is fucking adorable
I didn't like her in Fate but the mini version is fucking awesome.

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>if Gil gets serious
Gil's single most prominent character trait is that he does not get serious unless it's already too late.

How does it feel being the secondary?

Can someone explain how Lancelot was unbeatable in his time?
Weren't Merlin, Artoria, and Galahad there?

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artoria has always been weaker than lancelot, galahad and gawain
merlin isn't really specialized in 1v1
galahad 's a bitch

Memelin isn't a proper fighter.
Shitber admits she's inferior to some of her top tier knights despite her OP NPs.
Galahad went to heaven with the grail.

Saying this only makes you look like the dumb tasteless nigger you are.

He never lost because he never faced them. Of course those who would lose to him would call him unbeatable.
Also I'd argue that Lancelot is a better swordsman than Artoria. She'd lose if they fought with normal swords instead of Excalibur and Arondight.

kill yourself secondary

You have no idea

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>make a character ungodly op
>"fuck we have to kill him off somehow"
>plot armor death
it's just bad writing.

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He's the most skilled (probably the 2nd best swordsman and most skilled overall. I don't play FGO) so in a fair contest with same equips, he wins. That's as a human though.
When fighting to the death as Servants, his NPs are pretty weak so he loses.

Sasaki shits all over him in skill.

god heaven's feel sucks

Begone, tertiary.

They had all their NPs and were stronger in life dude.
Lancelot was still considered strongest KoTR

HOW CAN GILFAGS EVER RECOVER

With O MY LIGHTNING DRAGON

>H-HE WAS JUST A BETTER SWORDMAN
Cope Kekber fag

lmao they couldn't it's not even the main scene yet Gil was already getting assblasted

I don't see a lighting dragon mentionned and gil's pretty much dead by the end of the page

Is this a concrete rule? I thought this only applied to the less famous heroic spirits.
And yes, Lancelot should win if it wasn't for the bullshit Avalon. That thing's a guaranteed draw at the very least.

Supposedly he ends up in a tie with Richard after his armor breaks and he counterattacks with a random lightning dragon. It's retarded.

Merlin and Galahad never gave a shit to do anything in life or throw their power around. Artoria has always been weaker than him.

Why the fuck is richard so strong
What the fuck
why
why the fuck

It's not a concrete rule for some servants. It depends.
But besides fame boost, Saber had most of her NPs when was alive.

Based lightning dragon. What NP is that even supposed to be

basically a perfect balance between Arthur, Iskandar & Lancelot

>spamming 20 (twenty (nijuu)) excaliburs consecutively
>Achilles tier speed - faster than Jets

what

Sakurachads dabbing hard on Gilcucks.

>AAAHHHHH RIN PLEAASE DON T USE ZELRECH

Why though?

He's not a AoG servant and doesn't have special mystical upbringing like Lancelot or Arthur did. He didn't even win the one war he's known for and died a silly death.

How did she even become King if everyone else was stronger than her? Was everyone horny for like Jeanne’s subordinates were or what?

she pulled the sword, merlin showed her her fate and she accepted it and pulled it.
she was a girl but always had armor on and her cold personality made everyone think she was a man.
only her dad and merlin knew she was a girl.

Guinevere and Lancelot knew too. As did Morgan.

>merlin showed her her fate and she accepted it and pulled it.
and then she tried to get the grail to not pull it

Here's what the novel says about that:

“...Isn’t Richard the Lionheart a hero from an age of relatively weak mystery?”
“I’m sure it was, on the continent. But while he may’ve been from modern France, it’s
England he was king of, and England’s an island nation. Hard for the mystery to leak out when
you’re surrounded by water. I wouldn’t be too strange if he touched some of it while he was alive
and kicking. The ‘Clock Tower,’ one of the big mage headquarters, is there right now. That ought
to give you an idea.”
At that point Caster paused, then continued his lecture to the chief in a solemn tone.
“Say, bro, do you know what they called Coeur de Lion back in my day? Though they might
still call him that, for all I know.”
“There are too many anecdotes about him; I don’t know which you mean.”
The chief suspected it would be more of the usual pointless banter, but Caster’s talk did
occasionally contain valuable information. He did not expect much, but he decided to wait for
the Servant to speak.
“They called him... ‘The Wandering King.’”
“Oh, that’s what you meant. True, I have heard that during his ten years on the throne he
spent less than a year in his own country, but—”
“That’s not it; I’m not talking about how he was always headed off to a battlefield or on his
way back from one.”
Caster sounded as if he accorded some importance to what he had to say.

102

Fate/Strange Fake 3
“I don’t understand,” the chief asked doubtfully. “Where did Richard the Lionheart wander,
then?”
“Over the border between history... and myth.”
“...”

There was power in those simple words. Enough to make the chief fall silent in spite of him-
self.

“Means he was the last king with one foot in an age when faeries and runes were still out in
the open. Not something you want to take lightly.”

main worm is inside sakura and some bullshit about his will to live helping him survive

She was literally an usurper that stole the rightful birthright of her older sister. My sympathy for Arturia died with Garden of Avalon, she was even a shit king who needed Agravain to administrate the kingdom for her. As soon as he died, the kingdom as fucked because a dumb figurehead as Seiba didn't know any administration.

Gil pierced her and she was barely holding on, then when he prepared his final attack, she went into panic mode and the shadow consumes him, completing the grail

>the strongest Kotrt is french
>the strongest british king is french
OH NO NO NO NO

>be zouken
>matou bloodline is now absolute shit
>generations of matou shittery only manages to produce crest worms
>crest worms require the subject to be raped to death 24/7 and in return you get to completely ruin the users magic circuits, doom them to an early death and fuck up their hormone system
>get gifted a tohsaka child
>child is an extremely prodigious mage, even by the standards of one of the most prodigious bloodlines
>teach her no magic and ruin all of her potential with crest worms

why?

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Artoria is held back by the servant class restrictions.

Non-Servant Artoria has access to Rhongo/Excalibur/Pridwen/Dun Stallion with enough mana to use them and mana burst as much as she wants.

Meanwhile, many of her knights are more skilled than her but don't have nearly as much raw power.

Just wait for Grand Artoria.

couldn't still forgot how was Richard telling a tale of Lancelot soloing 5 billion aliens

Galahad is french?

>Saves Ea for the end and lets Saber block it was Avalon
>Doesn't kill Shirou/Archer/Rin/Saber in Illya mansion because the fucking fire is going to "mess" up the atmosphere
>Doesn't kill Sakura right away, but for some reason walks up to her for his final attack
king of jobbers

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Enkidu wouldn’t work since the shadow has no divinity and Ea needs time to wind up when he was basically oneshot.

Because he's a selfish fuck and doesn't give a shit about anything else.

gil didn't see sakura as that big of a threat, he didn't know angra mainyu's possession was that big. but when she was about to die and wanted to live the shadow went crazy which he didn't expect.

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Lancelot can KoH them lol

Richard’s “Excaliburs” are shit compared to the real one anyway. If he has a strong NP sword (unlikely in most circumstances) he could probably get to normal holy sword tier (A+) He mainly has speed and a few tricks from his shadow people to make him notable. He’s overhyped.

Why doesn't the shadow attack zouken's assassin if zouken says he has no control over it.

>be the rightful heir
>the right to claim is due to the magical connection to land
>your stupid dad has this shady incubus "make" a heir because you don't show this connection
>He cons him and instead of a boy, makes a girl, when she's born you awake the strongest connection to the land ever seen in generations, far better than your father and uncle
>girl is sent to a knight instead of being trained in politics as you
>gets the throne over something Merlin made up on spot rather than the rightful claim
>your son is the one who ends up being the real reason why the kingdom doesn't go the shit but never gets a single acknowledgment because "he isn't nice!!!"

How was Morgan in the wrong here?

>Btfo gilgamesh
>overated

>Saberkeks

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Strange Fake is retarded and throws away any restrictions that were in previous works out for character wanking and dbz fights. Not even Sieg's ass with a Dragon mana core in his chest and Fran's mana generator shit on top of Balmungs fast ass activation rate with true ether let him spam as much or as fast as Richard and Sieg's body was getting torn inside out with each one while Richard has fuck all backlash for spamming as much as he wants. It's literally the mindless shonen of Fate. Dont think about it too hard.

Because AssAssIn is the weakest, most boring, and least nutritious target.

Zouken is a smart man. He stuck to what he was good at, worms.
Anyways you missed the point of mage families. The point is not to raise a good mage, that's secondary. The true aim is to advance the family's magecraft to reach the root. Whatever the fuck the root is.

> Can fire 20 A+ Excaliblasts in the blink of an eye
> Faster-than-Achilles EX Agility
> Literally 7 other servants in his shadow whose abilities he can borrow

Overhyped. Right.

she does, she kills it when they are under the cavern
at first when she doesn't realize she is the shadow she has complete obedience
then she begins to use zouken as a puppet even though he thinks she is still completely obedient

*gurgles motor oil at you*

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All I want to know is, does this mean we can go back to peak Gil posting?

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>Whatever the fuck the root is.

practically godhood

He did that shit without even calling his NP's true name. This boi is justice.

achilles is literally your speed +1

Well ok, but
>Solomon
not in the throne
>First Hassan
We don‘t know how strong he is when not Grand
>Merlin
not in the throne
>Quetz
not summonable
>Scat
not in the throne
>Anastasia, Ivan, Qin, Sigurd, Super Karna
not read the Lostbelts, but aren‘t the circumstances of those so special that they could never get summoned in these forms in a regular HGW?
Anyway the circumstances of FGO are often so special that you shouldn‘t apply the servants to normal Fate powerlevelfaggotry, like how no one mentions CCC Gil not bound by classes with an Galaxy destroying Ea.

We're approaching levels of Gary Stu that shouldn't even be possible.

1) Zouken isn't able to directly control sakura but he can somewhat calm it down
2) the mud of the grail mainly targets pure untainted heroes, hassans are fairly tainted just by default

It's not clear how KoH would interact with a lot of Saber's NPs:

>Caliburn: Might not be able even carry it due to Sword in Stone myth.
>Excalibur (True): Has seals which Lancelot can't unlock.
>Rhongo: Can't unseal this either.

Sigurd is perfectly summonable. He's not a mega divine Servant or anything, he just has great stats with a skillset and rune magic that makes him a nightmare for pretty much any Servant he's up against.

Not until people have finished having a giggle over the fact that he's no longer "the strongest servant".

he's not even stronger than siegfried

>Merlin
confirmed weaker. also is not a servant
>quetz
up in the air
>scat
HAHAHAHAHAHA NO
>Anastasia
Weakling
>Sigurd
No stronger than Siegfried.

Doesn’t Gil in CCC get beat by Liz or was that one of the other spin offs?

He KoH'd Invisible Air and Saber sensed he could do the same to Excalibur in FZ

There are plenty of Noble Phantasms that would fuck with it.

Gil beats Liz with his dick. AUO castoff is apex

What is this horseshit? Merlin is a grand caster while living, there's no "properly summoned" for him. King Hassan had his grand saint graph, all he lost was a meaningless title. Gilgamesh actually proves he's stronger than Merlin in that same fight.
Your timeline is mixed up. King Hassan is grand in every way in Camelot. He loses his title sometime in Babylonia but keeps his saint graph making no difference. He loses his saint graph to give Tiamat CoD. Afterwards, he's just an ordinary featless top servant with high assassin skill.
>Solomon's corpse
Because Solomon was stronger alive.

Richard has a higher agility stat, so I don't know what you're talking about. That's not the power of Achilles's NP. He's just passively super fast out of his chariot.

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>Merlin and Hassan had more impact in the fight against Tiamat than any other Servant
gilgamesh literally ends the fight the instant he arrives

We have summaries lad. We already knew all this shit.Richard loses badly.

Where is that GalaCHAD gif from?

> Gilkeks actually believe that Gilgamesh did the heavy lifting in the Tiamat battle

Why am I not surprised? Merlin and Hassan carried, cope.

He honestly would wipe the floor with Siegfried all things considered. He outclasses him in everything has a better skillset to work with and nullifies Siegfried's invulnerability and in terms of NP, Gram is stated only to be rivaled by Excalibur in terms of strength as it's the only holy sword that can match it. I like Siegfried more as a servant but I honestly can't see him taking the win no matter how I slice it.

>summoning servants
>jobs to paperwork
>holds breath for PRESENCE CONCEALMENT EX
>bullying useless goddess
>last stand against tiamat
>serious Gil teaming up with everyone to defeat tiamat
Get ready for Babylonia. It will be peak Gilposting

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Achilles Noble Phantasm is to literally be the fastest hero (in running speed) because he is the fastest hero.

>how the german copy of a hero from a norse epic is stronger than its original
Kek

>A Noble Phantasm whose activation is usually triggered by stepping out of "Tempeteous Immortal Chariot."
>It is an embodiment of the legend that he is the fastest among all heroes of all eras.

Isn't Gram demonic sword?

The one who actually carried was Eresh by buffing the hell out of everyone in the Underworld. Hassan and Merlin supported and Gil did all the damage.

Gram was retconned. AlsoHolmes confirms Sigurd and Siegfried are equal. And considering their abilities? Yeah. Sigurd has a way tougher body and more reliable NP. Sigurd is more versatile thanks to rune potential and more sustainable as a servant. I'd say Sigurd is stronger but not by much.

You do realize that was written before even FGO right? That's "Gil is the strongest servant" statement tier. It's no longer a certainty.

>Dromeus Komētēs
>A continuously invoked Noble Phantasm that is activated upon descending the Immortal Chariot of Storms and Raging Waves』.
>The embodiment of the legend of being the fastest among all heroes of every era.
>Dashing through a vast battlefield in the blink of an eye, even if there are obstacles on the field, his speed won't falter.
>Although he must expose his weak point, his Achilles heel, there are few Heroic Spirits who could catch up with his speed.
>there are few Heroic Spirits who could catch up with his speed.
>there are few Heroic Spirits who could catch up with his speed.

but he did
archer gilgamesh killed a beast

>FGO
Richard is an SF servant you tertiary. Achilles' speed NP has not been retconned in any way either. Hell, GO gives him one of the most ridiculous speed feats in the game.

KoO's only limitation is that has to be considered a "weapon".
It worked on chopsticks so it's a broad umbrella

>>The embodiment of the legend of being the fastest among all heroes of every era.
Can you read?

Other servants can catch up a.k.a, they can be comparable but no hero is faster

if you aren't counting HS Siegfried, yes Sigurd is slightly stronger than servant Siegfried.

>Gram was retconned.

Wait, what? Elaborate. How did it get retconned?

Achilles has an A+ speed stat. Various Servants, even in FGO, have surpassed him in that regard.

Can you?

Catch up implies that if Achilles was in front of said servant, that servant could reach a speed high enough to close the distance while Achilles was still moving.

By definition, the non-Achilles servant would have to be faster than him to do this.

>not in the throne
That's just FGO, user. Unless you're gonna say Jeanne and Jack aren't in the throne as they are removed in Apocrypha.

is OP retarded?

the onlyone besides llionheart i czna think of is munemori and it's only the Iai speed

You realize that's just the legend of his reputation, right? It doesn't actually make him the fastest as a fact.

>outrun Atalante, the fastest crew of Argonauts despite losing his np and at his 30%
reminder that Chiron used his future sight and clairvoyance in order to catch up to this mofo

>Galaxy destroying Ea.
It's an animation, unless you think Hakuno is able to withstand the power of this. Stupid idiot.

Yeah. Servant Siegfried is nerfed
.Gram as a noble phantasm needs extra tuning from Sigurd just to reach A+ Anti-fortress.

It says "catch up with his speed"
Not "catch up with him".
Catch up with his speed implies being around his top speed, small brain.

>not read the Lostbelts, but aren‘t the circumstances of those so special that they could never get summoned in these forms in a regular HGW?
Qin's NP is still billions of people as max target and Ea (which is NEVER a galaxy buster retard, don't confuse animation effects by that) max target is thousands.

>i-it's an animation
>it doesn't count
cope

Galahad is Lancelot's bastard son, both of whom were added to Arthurian myth multiple centuries later by a Frenchman who made them French because he hated the British.

>being absorbing
Based californian english

to anyone who's up to date with strange fake whats going on with the fight between alcides and gil?

>king of jobbers
>not jobbing

Also dude's only got 2 weaknesses. Avalon hax and inbred-backwater island highschoolers. Sadly he was summoned to said inbred-backwater island.

>Achilles has an A+ speed stat.
Based retard. Agility is more than speed. You have fast old man at A++ because Iai is about attack speed. You have Saber Alter (who is faster than regular Artoria because mana burst) at D AGI because she's lost her fine motor control.
>Catch up implies that if Achilles was in front of said servant, that servant could reach a speed high enough to close the distance while Achilles was still moving.
Oh no, he's retarded.
You realize that legend is power in Fate right? Why and how the fuck do you think Gilgamesh's GoB works? Achilles' NP is the EMBODIMENT of being the fastest hero.

>confirmed weaker.
Merlin's not weaker though. He's the actual "never takes shit seriously." He literally recovers from being chaos tide'd by Tiamat and decides to pick up the Grail as she stomps.

Based achilles chad

The two fight, Alcides is doing OK until Gil starts aiming for the gaps in the lion pelt. After that Gil starts fucking Alcides up until Ishtar closes GoB that Gil chucked, because of course he did, and Alcides hits him with hydra poison. Both Alcides and Gil are super heavily wounded and it looks like Enkidu is using some revival NP on Gil and we may see Gil summoned into some weird container or something

7.5 tier

He's not particularly good with EA beyond it accepting him and him being strong enough to not get shredded by it. UBW Shirou fight shows that while he values it enough to not use it on plebs he doesn't choose a good time to use it since he doesn't factor it's a slow startup. Also in fate when Saber Avalon hax'd him. Gil has no sense of the weapon itself's weaknesses.

>He's the actual "never takes shit seriously."
Wrong. Merlin gets serious several times in Fate grand order and rebukes himself for losing his composure. Don't assume because a character is chill that they're not trying. Merlin was going to get eaten and killed by Tiamat, by his own words. He asked Fou teleport him out and fell instead so he wouldn't get killed. Gilgamesh showed up and just ended Tiamat.

>gilgamesh literally ends the fight the instant he arrives
Gilgamesh helps to kill an already agonizing Tiamat AFTER King Hassan, Ere and Merlin weakened her to the point "Just a bit more and she's dead" according to Roman. The only problem was to approach her because after losing Merlin, the chaos tide was a problem, but Merlin was going to return soon but decided against it and went for the Grail because Gil was enough to do the last push.

>Gil did all the damage.
Are you stupid? Gil was the equivalent of (you) punching Goetia. Nasu even gives the credit only to Hassan and Merlin in their mats. Please keep coping.

>grand merlin has a conceptual advantage
>hassan has a conceptual advantage
>ere has a concetual advantage
even then none of them would be able to end her if not for gil

>Avalon is an island
>Britain is an island
>Japan is an island
Gilgamesh confirmed weak to islands

I forget did Gilgamesh summon both Hassan and Merlin or just merlin?

I guess Qin is bigger than the planet earth and Gil can grow as gigantic as galaxies too.

Ea's just a shitty anti world NP with 1000 or 4000 max target range. It's just useful against textures.

>was to approach her because after losing Merlin,
And how did you lose Merlin? Think about that one.
>but Merlin was going to return soon but decided against it and went for the Grail because Gil was enough to do the last push.
Headcanon. Merlin fell and was only able to return to the surface after you'd already done the work.There was no mention of him going for the grail. Rather he could not because the grail was still inside Tiamat. Gilgamesh had to destroy her first so Merlin had no reason to sit back nor does he say he did. He got btfo out of the fight and jobbed. Tiamat on the other hand would have had nothing to stop her from reaching the surface and once she's there, she's now immortal and unbeatable again. Do you think Merlin's retarded?

Don't be retarded. Richard's one aspect of agility is weaving through omnidirectional GOB spam. His type of agility scaled by his stats is the same as Achilles's. Neither could Achilles replicate that feat. You can try as you might, but it's really not worming Achilles's way out of Servants that are A++, much less Richard's EX. Also, I shouldn't have to explain this, but the crystallization of a legend doesn't translate directly to the power of an NP. It influences it, however, of course.

Gil was irrelevant. Tiamat was killing herself at that point and our efforts were akin to giving someone a wet willy when they're already drowning.

>Nasu even gives the credit only to Hassan and Merlin in their mats.
No. Tiamat was still very much alive. And the STORY says if anyone there was absent, Tiamat would have won. Merlin attributes them coming that far to the goddesses and kingu as well. Without Eresh you were dead in the water too. Babylonia was a united front.

gilbros, too cocky, etc

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>Richard's one aspect of agility is weaving through omnidirectional GOB spam.
No you ape. Richard's agility is a combination of magecraft, his legend and the NP, and he gets faster OVER TIME. That's the reason for his high NP stat. You'd know this if you'd read the materials.

>Muh GoB

Achiles' speed let him deal with NINE of Apocrypha's servants going trigger happy on their noble phantasms.

Name one time he got serious. He even gets attacked by Fou during Tiamat shit because he's being a retard.

>Merlin was going to get eaten and killed by Tiamat, by his own words.
>by his own words
And you believe him?

>nd fell instead so he wouldn't get killed
What? He fell because Fou threw him off and was assumed out comsision while he was doing fine, and was going back to battle.

>Gil show up
To an already won battle that only needed a little push according to Roman? Where was he beforehand? Hiding like the coward he was? The only problem about losing Merlin was the chaos tide, meaning they couldn't approach. If Gil hadn't appeared, Merlin WOULD HAVE returned, he admitted it later when he hands the Grail. Then Tiamat would have been slain in another way. Gil wasn't necessary. Hassan, Merlin and the underworld were.

qin comes from a shitty pruned timeline
If you want to play by those rules there's probably one where gil never ended the age of the gods, never died and became the strongest being too

>Merlin fell and was only able to return to the surface after you'd already done the work.
He literally admitted he was going to, but because Gil was there, he chose to go for the Grail. Fucking read idiot Gilfag.

>Rather he could not because the grail was still inside Tiamat.
This is all headcanon. Gil did nothing except hiding like a coward he was until he could steal the kill when she was debuffed, vulnerable and mortal.

>lived in Babylon
>Babylon gets wrecked by the great flood
>brits ruled the waves
>japs ruled the waves for a while in the East

>Name one time he got serious.
When Gilgamesh dies, he flips out and later apologizes for his outburst. When Tiamat is revived, he admits he fucked up. Try and play the game next time
>You believe him
Why the fuck would he be lying? Are you alright?

>To an already won battle that only needed a little push according to Roman?

Wrong. You were close but Merlin jobbed and couldn't keep up with her. Chaos tide is now back and all that is left is that Tiamat reaches the surface or you die in a suicide attempt to stop her.

>Merlin WOULD HAVE returned,

Not fast enough. And if not for getting kicked out, he would have been eaten by Tiamat and killed then and there.

>Gil wasn't necessary.
The story tells us otherwise. Everyone was necessary. This is confirmed explicitly in Schez's interlude.

>And the STORY says if anyone there was absent, Tiamat would have won
Post this. I can post CM IV where NASU says that Hassan and Merlin were the special reason why Tiamat was defeated, 0 credit to Gil.

> No you ape. Richard's agility is a combination of magecraft, his legend and the NP, and he gets faster OVER TIME. That's the reason for his high NP stat. You'd know this if you'd read the materials.
Are you dense? I'm taking about how his ASPECT of agility as CQC dexterity and speed of movement is the same ASPECT displayed by Achilles's NP. Meaning that their stat allocations take in consideration the same ASPECT of agility. Yeah, no shit those are the mechanisms to attaining his speed. They're posted by user right up there.

> Achiles' speed let him deal with NINE of Apocrypha's servants going trigger happy on their noble phantasms.

*Gilkek laughs*

By the way, Strange Fake's own narration calls Richard's speed "singular" among all Heroic Spirits, and his legend is defined by "a peerless march". Pretty much the same fluff as Achilles, except he has actual better feats an an EX stat.

Time for you Achilles fags to cope. Powercreep in Fate is just inevitable. There'll come a day when Richard is powercrept too, don't worry.

This, Eresh created the field, Hassan gave her the concept of death, Merlin buffed, and Gil killed her. How people were retarded enough to miss the untied effort aspect of this defies logic

>he chose to go for the Grail.
>When Tiamat has the grail inside her
How was he going to do this again?>This is all headcanon.
How to spot the tertiary who didn't play the game. The grail that Kingu kept was thrown to Tiamat to awaken her. She has the grail. Merlin cannot get it unless she's dead. Now how the fuck was he going to do that by running away and waiting? Why the fuck would he when this is the critical moment where if she's escaped, you're fucked?

VNtards failing the powerlevel discussion against GOtards because they didn't read past the VN lmao

> A battle against an Advent Beast. King Gilgamesh, the Goddesses, the people of Uruk, the staff of Chaldea, Da Vinci, even those who we did not think would come to our aid were there to help. It was all thanks to them we managed to win. If any of them had been missing, surely we wouldn't have won.

Now shut the fuck up.

>NASU
And MERLIN said getting that for was only thanks to goddesses and Kingu. Are you saying Eresh wasn't mentioned she was useless as well. No. Nasu talked about grands because they played big roles. They are not however, the only ones.

>those examples
He's not serious and it's just a shit projection o himself. They already reveal how weak he is as a projection in this Summer event (can't even taste food). So try again kek.

>Why the fuck would he be lying? Are you alright?
Because he's always exagerating shit to play dramatic? Do you even KNOW him? He literally fell down to her and he was fine and unscathed. He was bullshitting around that's why Roman and Fou look down his antics. Unlike Gil who takes shit seriously, Merlin's always on being non serious. Otherwise he wouldn't even keep a human form.

>You were close but Merlin jobbed and couldn't keep up with her.
This doesn't matter, Tiamat was as good as dead. While Gil was hiding under a rock while everybody did heavy lifting for him.

>Not fast enough.
he has IM, he can poof whenever you dumbfuck.

>This is confirmed explicitly in Schez's interlude.
Please, don't even bring up someone who wasn't even there trying to tell a fairytale.

Hassan destroyed most of her body. The Lahmus she pulled in the end ware made of her body, he destroyed her wings too. He did 98% of the damage to Tiamat.

he did nothing beyond inflicting the death concept on her

>He's not serious
Why does it matter that it's a projection? This is Merlin's PERSONALITY, and it's revealed he's well capable of breaking composure. Only idiots think because a character can keep his cool, they're not in danger. I bet you're also the kind of fool who thinks because Gilgamesh acts like he's in charge all the time (like Link when he was captured by Karl and still acting cocky), he was still in control. Nonense.

>More excuses.
Keep your headcanons to yourself. Merlin was shitting himself at being eaten in the worst possible scenario. Then flopped hard.

>Tiamat was as good as dead
Clearly not, as she was too much for the grand caster and Mashu. Mashu who at this stage can fight grand caster Goetia and can channel Galahad's NP. She's top of the fucking line and she'd still be a corpse too if not for Gilgamesh

>IM
Moron. IM is not a teleporter. It allows you to manifest yourself in a reality and are a confirmed existence across timelines. It does not mean you can go from place to place once you're there. If it did Tiamat would have just teleported to the surface.

>Please, don't even bring up someone who wasn't even there trying to tell a fairytale.
She wasn't the one who said, you and your party were. How fucking stupid are you?

You should read again. He broke her wings, and destroyed most of her body. Merlin was capping the regeneration she could deal (chaos tide healed her). At this point Roman said a little more and she's dead. When you lost Merlin briefly, it could mean the chaos tide would fuck your party unless she's done with quick and perhaps undo your efforts if she managed to escape. But she was in death throats and heavily injured. Now Gil's arrival was convenient because it provided them with a quick NP to finish her off before this, but could have been Quetz in his place and wouldn't have made any difference. But it would have been a lost of a thematic battle. Since Tiamat is the mother of Uruk specifically and Gil was a child who says her no more.

Lahmus are made from the chaos tide. Chaos tide is Tiamat's body. So destroying them is no different from destroying all the other fodder Lahmu.

Also, King Hassan didn't do it alone. You were backing him up and Ereshkigal was mass buffing all of you and weakening them.

>He broke her wings
He cut one wing and that took all his grand power
>destroyed most of her body
False.
>At this point Roman said a little more and she's dead.
A little more was too much and Merlin lost. So does this mean anything?
>but could have been Quetz in his place and wouldn't have made any difference.
But Quetz wasn't there, was she?

>Mashu who at this stage can fight grand caster Goetia and can channel Galahad's NP.
Not him but Mashu only gains this conviction in Time Temple when she realizes her dream and answers, not in Babylonia. She gets an upgrade after Babylonia. Stop grossly exaggerating to prop up Gil.

>Moron. IM is not a teleporter. It allows you to manifest yourself in a reality and are a confirmed existence across timelines
Are you following Lostbels because teletransportation is indeed what also does. See TV who uses this skill to poofin and out wherever she wants. So indeed, Merlin can do the same, probably did the same that's why he show up in Uruk.

Based Gilfags being retards once again. Tiamat was on the verge of death's door when he arrived after she tried to take out the biggest threat (Merlin, who was neutralizing 99% of her body).

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>Not him but Mashu only gains this conviction in Time Temple when she realizes her dream and answers, not in Babylonia. She gets an upgrade after Babylonia. Stop grossly exaggerating to prop up Gil.
Mashu gained her full conviction from Camelot after Bedivere explained how Lord Camelot functions. Mashu at the time against Tiamat was trying her very best to protect the player and was going to sacrifice herself. If you don't think she's not max bonded at this point, I have nothing to say to you.

>Are you following Lostbels because teletransportation is indeed what also does

She teleports TO lostbelts, she can't poof and go where she wants once she's there. Have you forgotten Tiamat herself has IM and still had to "walk" to Uruk?

The fact that Gilgamesh killed Tiamat really makes people seethe doesn’t it?

>He cut one wing and that took all his grand power
He killed all the Lahmuhs that made up her body. Go and re-read what this meant and what Nasu said about that in his journal.

>A little more was too much and Merlin lost. So does this mean anything?
Obviously no because it just took a quick NP to finish her, and Mashu would have been able to do the same. Only she would have to put her life on risk because she'll need to approach because she doesn't have ranged NPs.

>But Quetz wasn't there, was she?
I was only using her as example. I'm saying that role unlike Hassan, Merlin or even Ere, would have been anyone with a long range-NP, to make it safety, it's because Tiamat was severely fucked beforehand. Actually I think Gil had to do it for non powerlevels reasons, but the symbolic ones. Like why Tiamat had to be the one who kills him.

only guy who gets it

>Gram as a noble phantasm needs extra tuning from Sigurd just to reach A+ Anti-fortress.

Unless I missed something in the story recently I think you misinterpreted user. Sigurd doesn't really need to do anything for it to reach that level. On it's own it's already an ungodly powerful demonic sword with attributes of the sun added to it capable of tearing through barriers with power from the Age of Gods like nothing and in Bryn's flashback a single swing from it is capable of dispersing Odin's divine flames and curses that engulfed the mountain she was imprisoned on. In terms of the actual NP, it's brought up that he's perfectly capable of using it as an Anti-Fortress NP like other Siegfried and Artoria without his particular methods. It's just he believes that impaling the enemy with it before releasing the beam at close-range is much more efficient at dealing with goes than just firing it off the blade raw as doing so the way he does makes it both Anti-unit and Anti-fortress. Which, in all honestly, it is.

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>if he got serious
there's your problem lad

Was pretty heavily implied in the zero LN that if Gil had further opened the gate in their first meeting he would have wiped out Lancelot right then and there

>He killed all the Lahmuhs that made up her body. Go and re-read what this meant and what Nasu said about that in his journal.
Again. All Lahmuhs make up Tiamat's body. And King Hassan did not kill them. He was one of the supports. You are giving him too much credit. His major role there was to give Tiamat the concept of death.
>and Mashu would have been able to do the same.
Citation please. Because the story tells us otherwise. You were on a suicide mission if you kept fighting, but let Tiamat go and she wins. Your backs were against the wall.

>would have been anyone with a long range-NP,
Proof that anyone with a long range NP had enough fire power to kill Tiamat at this stage? Merlin had a Caliburn model as a grand, and he still couldn't beat Tiamat head on and was knocked off the stage.

All of that means nothing, shirou wielded caliburn so no reason if lancelot got his hands on it he should be able to use it. He should be able to use excalibur for the same reason, maybe not the beam since we havent seen lancelot use any of the extra abilities of the NPs that he's caught. Same deal with Rhongo he should be able to use it as a standard lance with all of its passive abilities.

>Powerlevel discussions abound.

Karna can defeat Gilgamesh. Discuss.

Enkidu exists. Discuss.

New Super Karna can easily.

>Mashu gained her full conviction from Camelot after Bedivere explained how Lord Camelot functions.
No, Mashu only gained her NP real name there, not her full conviction. Only when she says "I understand why I was born and my purpose, Doctor" in Time temple and denies Goetia offer, she gains her conviction. Lord Camelot answers to conviction and will power which she didn't have it in Babylonia. Sorry to break this to you. She had to be nerfed after Time Temple for a good reason.

>Mashu at the time against Tiamat was trying her very best to protect the player and was going to sacrifice herself
She wasn't or Nasu wouldn't have written her full growth and maturity reaching on Time temple, not Babylonia. Including an epiphany of sorts.

>She teleports TO lostbelts
She teleports to anywhere she wants. She only needs a catalyst for Wandering Sea because it's in the other side and imaginary numbers in between place, but she said she can pop out wherever she wants otherwise. Stop reaching to make Merlin less than he is and ignore how he still holds himself back because his real form isn't even humanoid.

lets see gilgamesh - 5k years old, vs berserker... 40 years old? there is no comparison

Everyone in this thread is Gilgamesh

Well he can.

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>No, Mashu only gained her NP real name there,
Play the game. When Mashu uses LC to block, Bedivere explained how her abilities work, and they are determined by her conviction. Mashu at heightened emotion and willpower will demonstrate her full power. And she had it completely by Babylonia, which in timeline placing, is immediately before Time temple. Guda was risking his life with her against Tiamat. You would have to be an utter moron to insinuate Mashu would not be at her peak condition in terms of will power

>She teleports to anywhere she wants
Which is why she got captured by Qin, amirite? Again, Tiamat has IM. Where does she teleport user? Because her ability to do so would ANNIHILATE your efforts.

What the fuck is this dragonball z bullshit?someone explain. this can't be real.

The problem is that Roman's statement about Tiamat's condition is taken out of context. If you'd remember, Tiamat started out as functionally invincible. But through tortorous efforts and sacrifices, you can finally bring her to the point when even your regular attacks can now damage her. Yes, there's only a little more to go...compared the mountain that had to be climbed to get there. 'Little' is always relative.

I would say yes, they aren‘t, or at least shouldn’t be. The throne is multiversal, that‘s Archer can be summoned even though he is canonically from none of the 3 main FSN timelines.
Jeanne and Jack should not be in FGO, then again FGO broke all the rules in order to have as many servants as possible.

>Merlin can teleport
Did ANY of you play the game? Merlin asks Fou to teleport HIM, precisely because he cannot do it himself. Good fucking lord.

I "played the game" in 4 different accounts, thank you.
>And she had it completely by Babylonia,
She didn't, she only reached the peak of this in Time Temple. This is canon. Stop making shit up to try to prop up your favorite. She still had to do her epiphany about what she wanted to do with her life in Babylonia, she didn't until Time Temple. Her will power was much weaker. You're an utter moron to insitinuate her growth and maturity concluded BEFORE the chapter that actually explores it.

>Which is why she got captured by Qin, amirite?
And if you read, you'll know what he did to her, which had nothing to do with what Tiamat did to Merlin. Because Qin isn't a dumb rampaging Beast, but someone who was able to nullify her Saint Graph with his inventions.

It's exactly that. Curryshit is the ancestor of all shounen bullshit anyway.

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>I "played the game" in 4 different accounts, thank you.
Then I'm sorry, but your reading comprehension is unsalvageable then.
>This is canon
Then please provide the citation that says Mashu's will power suddenly drastically increased in the 5 seconds between Babylonia and Time Temple.

>Doesn't explain why Tiamat didnt' teleport despite having the ability for the 3rd time
You're not getting away, you know? Also See

It's best if you just disregard the multiversal shit at this point.
The grail exists outside of time so Jeanne and Jack should be summonable regardless.

>the CHAD arjuna

>played on 4 different accounts
Christ and you still don’t know what happened?

>Her will power was much weaker
This is dumb, and is not will power. That is enlightenment. When her master is in danger, Mashu was exemplify her best. You were up against a beast in the worst straits up until that point. Any and all argument suggesting Mashu would not be at her most determined is out of their minds. Don't reply to this. I won't

user...

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Yes, and he appeared himself out of nowhere in the end anyway. Sounds like Merlin was just being dramatic as usual, huh?

skiptards exposing themselves

Skipping what?

The entire last act of babylonia apparently

>Yes, and he appeared himself out of nowhere in the end anyway.
Because he traveled from Avalon to the singularity. There's no proof he can do it once he's there.
>Sounds like Merlin was just being dramatic as usual
Bullshit. Merlin was pissed off and terrified. Then shat on Fou for not getting him out of there. Imagine thinking Merlin would dick around in this kind of situation when he panics over Gilgamesh dying days before. What a horrible excuse.

What the fuck is the „grail“ you’re talking about? Do you mean the throne? If so, yes, he exists outside of time. That also means if in any timeline at any time someone gets deleted from the throne, it means they are not in throne at any point in any timeline outside of the strech of time before they were deleted in the timeline when they were deleted.
tl;dr Jeanne and Jack should not be in FGO and the fact that they are just means that FGO is rulebreaking fanserviceshit, which everyone already agrees on anyway.

This, real Artoria has infinite mana. Lancelot and Gawain are still stronger than her, but non-servant Artoria is broken.

>Then please provide the citation that says Mashu's will power suddenly drastically increased in the 5 seconds between Babylonia and Time Temple.
The example is her entire realization and maturity in the Time Temple, including finally answering to Goetia after her realization about what she wanted, having flashbacks to her journey.

>You're not getting away, you know? Also See
It proves nothing. How do you think Merlin got into Babylonia from Avalon in the first place?

>This is dumb, and is not will power. That is enlightenment. When her master is in danger, Mashu was exemplify her best.
It was her will power. The narration highlight her willpower in this moment, not against Tiamat. Never against Tiamat. Are you once again trying to prop up a midboss used by the final boss over Mashu's last stance and sacrifice? Are you forgetting her NP got upgraded after Time Temple too? Do I need to hunt down the fucking screencaps of the scene to show how Nasu highlight her conviction in that scene but never did against Tiamat?

>Merlin was going to put all of humanity in danger and possibly kill Mashu and Guda
>Just because he wants to play a pointless meme mid-fight
>When he's been serious and working hard behind the scenes in the entire singularity

When you have bend over backwards this far up to reach your own ass, it's not worth doing. Merlin may joke around, but he's not retarded.

>Merlin was pissed off and terrified
He didn't sound like that, though. I guess we'll know in the animu.

>It proves nothing.
>Merlin asks someone ELSE to teleport him
>Specifically because his life is in danger
>Falls because of it
>This proves nothing
Jesus Christ

> How do you think Merlin got into Babylonia from Avalon in the first place?
Independent Manifestation lets you get to a dimension of your own will. Nothing say it you can port wherever you want once you're there. Proven by how Tiamat herself does not do it. And again with Merlin. Neck yourself.

shut the fuck up

>knock knock
>open up the door
>IT'S REAL

fuck. i dont even know to feel anymore man. i'm not even surprised or disappointed. I don't know, i just feel a distinct lack of joy suddenly.

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ok

come make me bitch.

Anyways, whatever's going on with Merlin, it doesn't change the fact that Gilgamesh delivered the coup de grace to a dying Tiamat that was weakened by Merlin and buttfucked by Hassan.

>free (You)s

>dying
I think you mean mortal. There’s a pretty huge difference

Mash gets a specific MUH CONVICTION narration vs Goetia. She doesn't get one vs Tiamat.

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Why would she? Mashu didn't really do anything against Tiamat. Goetia is "her" enemy. Tiamat has no personal relationship with anyone.

She still dies, but unlike the Tiamat scenario, which was implied she would take Tiamat with her, she dies without even denting Goetia, just to save (you) which would have happened against Tiamat too in her weaker form. I don't see what people were trying to prove about her life being in danger with the chaos tide. She gets vaporized.

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Well, it was more to answer who was trying to prove Mash was 'done for' against Tiamat more than she was against Goetia when she still died.

Is what he says. Additionally, when he returns to the surface in the epilogue, Merlin says he was "hurrying" to the battle, and just happened to catch the grail falling with Tiamat's death. So yeah, he was not making it back in time and was not/could not teleport.

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how sad Goetia gets to a POV while Guda doesn't. Goetia as MC when?

>which was implied she would take Tiamat with her
This was not implied at all. She was going to make a last stand, no proof that Tiamat would die, or have you forgotten what Chaos tide does?

>She was going to make a last stand, no proof that Tiamat would die, or have you forgotten what Chaos tide does?
The whole scene was about she taking Tiamat down with her even if she has to die for it. Gilgamesh appears so she wouldn't be too hasty.

She only needs to crack her skull, it's not that hard.

No. The whole scene was about to fighting to the last, because there is no defense except. You cannot beat Tiamat once Chaos tide is out, she does not need to touch you and Guda would be killed instantly so no more mana sup-ply for Mashu even if she could survive the corruption. Mashu only has close ranged movements. There was nothing she can do, and she never said she could take down Tiamat, she just said she would be a shield for Guda. But Roman implies her body was done for and she wouldn't make it. Tiamat was in no danger from her.

What the heck is even the argument at this point? Gilgamesh would be equally fucked if Tiamat make a concerted effort to eat him if she thought he was a distinguished threat like Merlin. How does he delivering the blast blow like that ever means he's stronger than a Grand?

That's your speculation though. Mashu's Lord Camelot is passively effective against curses, so she has an advantage (unlike the bullshit beam Goetia tosses), she might be able to resist enough to split Tiamat head. Tiamat is weakened and she's injured already. The scene merely put the scenario Mash would have died to defeat Tiamat, but luckily Gil arrived on time to not require her sacrifice.

Not any of those guys but it seems simple enough. Tiamat even in her weakened state is superior to Merlin, who according to this anyway would probably have died.

So...Merlin disabling Chaos tide + You, can't bridge the gap against Tiamat

Gilgamesh + You can defeat Tiamat even with her chaos tide, strengthening her abilities and providing a field advantage.

At the very least Gilgamesh has more firepower than any of them. Which makes sense, since Merlin is not about OOGA BOOGA destruction. He's about utility, illusions and survival.

Gilfags are retarded. Tiamat targetted Merlin in particular enough to psysically try to devour him because he was her worst opponnent, even with Merlin whining he's not Marduk (who fucked her up).

>That's your speculation though.
That's not speculation. It was IN the scene. I was paraphrasing the text. Watch it for yourself. No mention of taking down Tiamat only protecting Guda. You inferred that.

youtu.be/hrz9_gLwHIM?t=35459

The argument is whether or not these were the turn of events:
>Eresh sets the stage for the fight and uses underworld power to buff and de buff
>Merlin buffs everybody and helps mitigate Tiamat’s regeneration
>Hassan introduces concept of death and helps ground Tiamat
>Once she’s actually capable of dying, Gil kills her

>Gilgamesh + You can defeat Tiamat even with her chaos tide, strengthening her abilities and providing a field advantage.
It has nothing to do with that you fucktwat. It needed a ranged damage NP to split her skull quickly. Tiamat didn't lung to Gil or had time to approach him. And Gil hasn't been stalling her for a long time and weakened her BEFORE she even could take damage. He appeared fresh when she was weakened and debuffed to steal credit.

Right... but there's also all the damage done to her Saint Graph right after Hassan bell'd her, so we actually have absolutely no idea how much damage Gil did at the end there. Ea could have done a lot, or it could've merely offed a dying Tiamat. Although I agree that Merlin isn't one to have much firepower. The question is whether or not he was more useful than Gil, and it feels as though, to me, he was.

>It needed a ranged damage NP to split her skull quickly
Your headcanon. We have no idea what would have been needed to take Tiamat. Merlin had Caliburn. If that was all that was needed. Merlin could have just struck Tiamat and killed her. Instead he had to run away and got taken out of the fight.

The story does not agree with you.

What? Tiamat targetted him and tried to eat him, which he survived unscathed anyway. This is after she tried to ESCAPE AND FLEE and didn't work because Merlin and the others didn't let her. Tiamat had no time to attack Gil because he appeared to ambush her when she was at her vulnerable and weakest. No different of how the Shadow eats him in HF. It seems he learned from this tactic.

This, I agree with, and the anime should clear it up. Merlin was definitely more useful than Gilgamesh however, that's unquestionable. Gilgamesh just having more direct firepower just seems logical. He was there to compensate for Merlin's absence. There was no need to whittle down Tiamat blow by blow anymore and could just end her immediately. That's fine too, because firepower isn't Merlin's specialty.

Merlin has Excalibur not Caliburn guys. He was busy being support.

>What? Tiamat targetted him and tried to eat him,
In which Merlin could have responded with Caliburn and killed her. He didn't, because it wouldn't work. Instead he needed to ask for help and would have died if he wasn't removed from the field by the hit. Tiamat even in that weakened state, was still immensely powerful. Fact of the matter is that Gilgamesh+You against Tiamat is just a straight up brawl with what's left of the beast and her regaining her chaos and tide you win. No idea why you're trying to discredit Gilgamesh here, and I don't care either. I've made my point. The anime will show the rest.

I’d generally agree with that though I think the point of that finale was that it was a concerted effort and victory couldn’t have been achieved if one was absent. After merlin is taken out of commission, they make it pretty clear that despite being in a mortal state, unless you have the firepower to end things quickly you still can’t win. Hence where Gil comes in and provides such

No this is the sprite fucking up. He has a caliburn model, said in his materials. If he had Excalibur and still couldn't take out Tiamat, I'd call Roman insane for saying only a little more was necessary.

Jesus dude, we don't even know if Merlin can call out their true names to sword beam. They're not listed as his NPs. He most likely can't use them as such.

Once you undo her bullshit debuffs and buffs courtesy mostly of Hassan and Merlin (but also some Ere and Gorgon - Quetz gets the YOU TRIED gold star), Tiamat could have been taken down in a comfy stall team with Merlin, however she read the gameplay fag strag and targetted him nonstop like Saber Alter in the Challenge Anniversary Quest, so Merlin was taken out (but surprisingly not even a hair out of place after all! Or a single bruise from that!). After losing Merlin, stalling was going to be difficult, Mashu still wants to try, but Roman is concerned about her. Gil arrives and says they can't stall anymore, so they should just bursts it now that's an option, he'll provide that. So the battle can be won before Tiamat lashes out again. But it's doubtful the bursts approach would have worked when bullshit buffs and debuffs were on, that's exactly why they had to corner her.

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Merlin can swordbeam though? It's right there in his animations. Also you don't need true name to pull off some serious firepower. Alter can use Excalibur without release the true name as shown against Berserker. They used Caliburn to kill Berserker without saying its true name. Gilgamesh can replicate that attack with Merodach, against without saying its true name. I think Grand Caster can pull it off.

Likely a typo, he has Excalibur in his Babylonia CG though. Merlin didn't try to use the sword, he was busy doing support things, maybe he was waiting and waited too long.

>I'd call Roman insane for saying only a little more was necessary.
Not really, it was probably a little more until Tiamat decided to aim for the support only. Roman even said that she was smart for taking out the support.

>Likely a typo, he has Excalibur in his Babylonia CG though. Merlin didn't try to use the sword, he was busy doing support things, maybe he was waiting and waited too long.
Merlin's garden of Avalon flowers are passive. That is his support. Nothing saying he wasn't fighting too.

That's not Excalibur's sword-beam, that's just him channeling his magical energy through the sword. An excaliblast is gold, not blue. He just hits stuff with it, but it's not a NP for him.

>Nothing saying he wasn't fighting too.
The garden of avalon still was active when you fought her last though. He probably did some other kind of stall support we didn't see. Tiamat specificially targetted him. And him getting out that one without single cut is plainly hilarious.

It’s almost like the whole thing was a miracle of team work and the right people being there at the right time. Honestly true credit should go to whoever came up with the entire plan and set up the team

>That's not Excalibur's sword-beam, that's just him channeling his magical energy through the sword
How do you think Excalibur works? It takes your mana and amplifies it. You know the shit Saber uses to mana burst from her sword as Alter? That's magical energy being channeled through it.

> An excaliblast is gold
Excalibur's "color" depends on who uses it. It's black when Saber gets corrupted and even changes in Zero LN when she's despairing.

Most things went as they did stuff, Merlin and Hassan appeared out nowhere and save the plan from failure. The logistics in the beginning were handled by Roman (who did the accurate profile of Beast II without which nothing could have been known of her), (you) and Gil.

Hassan showed up earlier in the singularity as Ziusudra.

That's Excalibur Morgan, Gilkek. It's an entirely different sword. Every Excaliblast, independent of character, has been gold because that's what excalibur's amplification does. If Merlin were channeling his mana by it to amplify and call its true, name, it would be gold. He was not. It's just some random spell he casts.

oh nonono saberkeks btfo

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>Gilkek
Stopped reading here, sorry.

Why does Gilgamesh make you seethe so hard?

user you have to stop two timing saber in sakura's route. Just replay the fate route again if you love her so much.

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I know, I mean in the battle. Merlin was aware he was going to appear.

Honestly all this discussion has only gotten me more hype for Babylonia. I really hope they don’t fuck up the finale and deliver some badass animation

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I accept these renunciations of further arguments as your concessions. Thank you for your time.

LB4 was pretty shounen jump mode, and it's good because hindu shit is meant to be that way.
youtube.com/watch?v=6Yq3-wzxYUg
youtube.com/watch?v=7GBUS4hy_U0

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Seeing Ea at full output is gonna be hype

>It's an entirely different sword.
No you autist. It's the same sword, just blackened. This like saying Saber Alter in FSN is a completely different person. What the hell?

>ARJUNAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>KAARNAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

What the fuck was Ishtar doing in the battle? Doesn't she have some badass bow?

I don't want badass animation although it's nice to have it. It will be just like HF 2 where they focused too much on Saber Alter Vs Herc's fight. I want a good storytelling and the most accurate detail they can put it into so that people will be invested in the story rather than the animations since the true joy of the Fate series is the story.

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>still responding to that retard
There’s no point in arguing with someone this fucking stupid, user

She did all she can which is to blow a hole into Ereshkigal's underworld at the most accurate timeread the story dummy

That’s true. I hope they put support Gilgamesh’s special NP line in it though. It was a shame that they didn’t sub it in NA because it’s pretty badass

Episode 0 seemed that they had the emotional scope good to go. They could have focused on stupid singularity recaps battles but they didn't bother.

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>the true joy of the fate series is the story
Not true. Fate is almost entirely carried by the characters.

Merlin's sword is neither Excalibur nor Caliburn. It is a model simulating them. It likely does not even have a true name.

>He's a Caster, but he fights using a sword too. Or rather, he thoughtlessly put up a Caliburn-like sword.
>Protagonist: "Wait, you're not using magic?!"
>Merlin: "Depends on the time and place! I mean, you know. I tend to bite my tongue if I panic at the incantation. If you just need to beat up the enemy, a sword is enough, no?"

I know she did that, but what happened after to her? I can't even remember, did she just fuck off into the sidelines?

Would be cool if planet could forge two swords of that caliber, but I guess it's too much.

>This is even mentioned.
Source? I need that to evidence to counter this lancelotfag who unironically believes that Lancelot is stronger than Gilgamesh

It is, you dunce. It's the crystallization of "the curses of Britain" instead of "the prayer of glory". It transforms into a completely different Noble Phantasm that SWALLOWS light, thus making "black light" instead of taking your mana to produce gold light. And you wonder why it makes BLACK light instead of GOLD? It takes Saber's mana and amplifies it by an evil process. Read the fucking mats:

"Noble Phantasm
Excalibur Morgan: Sword of Promised Victory
Rank: A++　　Type: Anti-Fortress Noble Phantasm　　Range: 1~99　　Maximum Target: 1000 People
Excalibur Morgan.
The sword of black aurora.

The blackened mana is the primal magic voodoo funk of the British isles, inherited from Uther by Artoria's sister, the Fairy Queen Morgan. The sword's changed name is because it might be her only connection to Morgan, with whom she could never see eye to eye."

And this doesn't even get you one step closer to proving that Merlin can make a goddamn Excaliblast, which we have absolutely no idea if he can or cannot do.

True. I was trying to emphasize on the story around the character but we both know what we're trying to say
She's just like everyone which is fighting and holding back the lahmus while (you) defeat Tiamat with the aid of Gil(not sure if necessary or not). It's probably just Gil wanting to settle things down with Tiamat.

>In anger, Archer howled at Berserker, his eyes burning crimson. For the third time, the space around him warped to let a collection of blades materialize ... The glowing Noble Phantasms now numbered thirty-two. This time, even Rider kept silent. Berserker had endured a continuous attack of sixteen Noble Phantasms, but there was no way one could resist twice that number. That went for all the other Servants as well. Nobody could estimate the limits of the golden Archer’s latent power anymore.
Pg. 206-207 in Vol 1

who is ready for the best character in fate to have his spotlight

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Rasputin will have his spotlight on LB5 hopefully.

what is this from?

> tfw Richard the Lionheart is inconceivably stronger than Lancelot

well done Nasu

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Thanks user

>Nasu
Narita.

Powercreep is so real. Saber was supposed to be one of the strongest servants originally, but every new work introduces several servants that make her look much weaker in comparison.

You were saying?

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Why would Rasputin show up to the world's ending at Sefar's enormous hands?
What's he gonna do? Punch the titan?

Well, can't do anything about it user. Happens to almost every anime. She's still strong, but since in FGO you're allowed to summon gods and goddesses of course interesting and creative concepts has to be made to entertain the audience (it was the intention).

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He's literally one of the ones leading the lb servants vs the panhistory counter force attack.

She gets a goddess form though.

Yeah but LB5 is clearly going to be significantly different than the rest. All things considered it should be a dead end belt where humanity is destroyed by Sefar's purification.

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Save her from what?

Saber is one of the strongest though. But strongest =/= best or best at combat.

>All things considered it should be a dead end belt where humanity is destroyed by Sefar's purification.
It's the opposite though. Sefar was nothing but a bitch used by the Human Order. The timeline gods prevailed got the snip.

Honestly it all started with Extra.
Fate should never have continued post Stay Night.

There's nothing wrong with Atlantis that's kind of the thing. You are going after a 'perfect' timeline.

Dib's servant is Grand Berserker Cain, calling it now

You do know that the civilization she destroyed never happened in the lostbelt? That's the oldest civilization.

Doesn't matter how strong you are when you are the first to surrender

Narratively, the fight is actually a component I love in tragedies: it's one of the points where the undesirable outcome could've been prevented but it just wasn't possible for some reason. It's great to see the OST instilling a sense of hope and Berserker ralentlessly trying to win the fight, knowing that if he wins it'll go a long way to prevent the fatal outcome, but Saber's superiority is apparent and he inevitably loses. HF was initially written with no "good" ends and it shows in many places. I think this battle earned it's runtime, unlike Saber vs Assassin.

It also completely shits on Shirou's hopes of getting powerful allies immediately, to plunge the characters into uncertainty again, but I don't think that aspect was highlighted as much.

No I don't know these things because none of y'all ever offer any translations. So I lie about it on the internet deliberately to get corrected.

You are gay

Doesn't stop her from being the cutest servant.

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Atlantis the oldest proto civilization never fell 14k years ago (time when the Sefar arrived) and instead prospered, the Ages of Gods continues strong in the LB. This history was pruned but not due to the Tree of Fantasy.
Kirschs LB is described as stable and prosperous and the "natural winner". His tree covers most of the planet by now.

They state pretty outright that with Merlin down that you can’t let the fight drag on or else you’ll lose. Gil providing overwhelmingly firepower to kill Tiamat quickly seemed pretty necessary

Based Narita wanking his OCs

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Interesting. Was humanity "too prosperous" as per the usual parameters or was it belted solely because it violates a quantum timelock (Sefar's descent and the burning of the world)?

Based Gil making rider shit himself

which saber? You mean artoria? She's still strong but not as cool

The problem with this argument is that Shirou actually won, rule breaker, broke Sakura's connection to the grail and Shirou messed up the ritual enough with an excaliblast to revert things back to normal.

Sure that almost kills him but he totally won.

What are some cool saber?

>Gil loses because he dicked around
That's hardly unique to this route.

I thought SF was supposed to be a big deal, but this is horrible

All these Lostbelts are meant to be places where the Age of Gods continue or could reinstate it if they revise modern history (they cannot revise the history before the modern era for some reason even if the divergence began there). Kirsch thinks the best deal would have been for humanity ('strong humanity' mind you, I don't know how he defines that) to use gods as tools to propel their progress, and has an understanding with Zeus the LB King. That the separation of god and men was a mistake.

Sefar in the end boosted humanity, it let humans prosper while attacking the gods, and in the end, once she was done with the top dogs, she got taken down by humans who had become the top dogs in their place. It's undeniable Sefar becomes a human legend.

> Oh noes, Gil jobbed again.
How could that happen so many times? It's like he's the king of jobbers or something.

>local man has the hubris of a god and routinely fucks up accordingly
Gil: How could this be happening to me?

I want a series just focusing on these three. Call it two and a half mongrels

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You just proved to him it's the same sword. Do you think there's two sword's of promised victories with the exact same stats?

The only difference is the lore implying a different time period but it's the exact same sword.

The place is prosperous but it's controlled by gods (before Wodime hijacked it). The only two LBs that seemed like humanity is at brink of destruction (sans LB1 which was already labelled as "Hopeless" even by TV) are LB6 and LB7. Note the leader of Crypters is on LB5 and he was the main winner bet by the "God of another Planet", however: LB 6 has Camelot and thus Galahad to tie in Mashu development (and the Crypter who has a rapist obsession on her). LB 7 has Daybit who is mysterious as the one who knows the truth of Marisbury Animusphere's death. If Daybit is linked to the final boss/"the god of another planet" as antagonist or is actually a socially inept ally that will hand over revelations toward the end to unlock the finale, we don't know. I'm betting on the latter, specially if Pepe dies and complicates our chances to make him cooperate with us (he seems very fond of Pepe).

Add faker too

This is a nerfed Lancelot to be honest. Lancelot with arondight out has all his stats increased one rank plus double saving throw. Basically he likely could survive that onslaught.

Does Kirsch have any strong servants going on for him? Some other dude of his has a straight-up Grand serving them.

user...Lancelot pulls out Arondight and he loses KoO

Yeah but that still is about a fraction of what Gil can actually do. The question if Lancelot survives Gilgamesh using GoB spam like he did against Richard or Alcides

He has three Divine Spirits and possible all the gods left alive in that LB (Poseidon jobbed off screen again). Some people theorize if Zeus becomes Nanomachines, Krisch will be the Pseudo Servant Zeus, because Caenis says they are similar.

>SF last volume still not translated
>CF still not translated
EOP bros..

He wouldn't need it, it's an absolute downgrade.

Hey I'm not an EOP, I'm an ESL.

I don't know japanese though.

KoO is the reason Lancelot can counter GoB's weapons. He loses that and he's a sitting duck.

Just wait bro haha

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youtube.com/watch?v=Fbxy7-aPSdI

Daybit has with him what seems to be a Grand Servant. IF it's a Grand Servant and not just someone with a Superior Saint Graph like Qin, it means that Daybit is actually an ally.

There, solved GoB spam

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Cute jobbers

>double saving throw
What does it mean in that context? I thought double saving throw is just having more chance of resisting some debuff or any other probability related effect. How does it helps against sword spam?

Imagine being a Gilfag. Friendly reminder that the "strongest servant" is weaker than a Japanese high schooler who isn't even at his peak strength.

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Come to think of it, can't Gil open the gates inside opponent's body and skewer them from inside out?

No it's not. It's fairly useless ability against Gil if your anyone but Lancelot (or someone of similar skill level). it allows him to catch GoB weapons and attack the swords spam head on (that's all). if you don't have the skill to deflect GoB onslaught whether you are able to catch some of them and use them is pointless.
Arondight gives him strength equal to Hercules while with speed greatly in excess of hercs (A++ vs A) also retaining his skill level and having greater endurance to boot.

I can’t think of a specific reason why he couldn’t but I feel like if he could we would have seen it by now

>It's fairly useless ability against Gil if your anyone but Lancelot
You see this. It doesn't disprove my point at all. KoO is STATED to be the reason why Lancelot can take on GoB because it gives him a conceptual advantage. This is reinforced in Zero event. Take that away for mere singular stat buffs and he's fucked. What the hell is he going to do against thousands of NPs raining down on him without a way to counter? Stop thinking in big dick power and instead compatibility

Too bad no amount of skill and power is actually "enough" to deal with GoB.
If he took out Arondight, Lancelot would eventually be shot by an immaterial weapon that cannot be blocked or a weapon that sunders all swords on contact or something.
GoB's danger is the fact that every weapon is a Noble Phantasm and they keep getting weirder. If any vulnerability exists, it will eventually be pierced.

It would be extremely effective against Karna, for example, completely ignoring his armor. And someone like Vlad already could materialize his NP inside Karna, so why not Gil...

Gil has pretty excellent taste

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But it's not a conceptual advantage the LN makes this explicitly clear. The whole point of the exchange and the "conceptual advantage" lancelot has is his legendary skill and ability (He's more skilled than even Arthur himself the perfect knight), That's allows him to counter GoB and is the reason he even has KoO

What do you think saving throws are? That's explcitly the sort of shit Arondight protects him from

I thought he has KoO because of that legend where he fought with just a branch and his skills are crystalized as eternal arms mastery.

Anyone who's ever played D&D 5E will tell you advantage can mean jack and shit if god hates you.

That's a story displaying his legendary skill. The same skill he retains even as berserker.

I would think his best bet against Karna is enkidu. Karna is closer to divinity than Gil is (I think) so if he gets caught by those chains he would be pretty fucked

Lancelot was STILL the strongest in his era when Saber was at her peak.
Why can't Shitoria accept this fact?

Lancelot was the most skilled, but he wasn't the strongest at all. Rhongomyniad proves that.

*Shitoria fags

Herk still fucks up the chains, so it's not as if they are infallible.

THE Perfect Knight.

There was no-one better, blessed by the fairies, had unparalleled skill.

Yeah but the higher one’s divinity the stronger the chains get, and Karna has insanely high divinity

Mats in Fate Zero, FGO, and Extella Link
All of them say he's the strongest KOTR.
The strongest of his era.
Invincible in his era.
Unbeatable in his era.
Cope with your headcanon.

you've had 15 years to react to this shit and you choose to do it now

Dude has A rank in luck during dangerous situations thanks to protection of the fairies and double saving through. As far as Fate is concerned he's an anti-status tank.

>Rhongomyniad proves that
Wrong unless she turns into goddess that's not true

>Yeah but the higher one’s divinity the stronger the chains get,
Same as Herk, and it's not something fool's proof. The strongest chain, Enkidu himself as Kingu, still broke vs Tiamat.

>ruler class
>karma
Take your fanfic somewhere else

>shitters say Heaven's Feel has the best writing
>goes out of its way to eliminate half the cast at the start in the most contrived ways possible

I suppose that’s true but I can still see the chains giving Gil a pretty huge advantage. Though I haven’t played the new Lostbelt and apparently Super Ultra Hyper Karna Rojo Ascendido is ridiculous so who knows

Almost as if their stories were told in UBW and they're irrelevant to HF.

Well, Herk broke them only after he became locked in place target that got sword spammed to death.

Fuck off with your fanfic, we are discussing the real series

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>walk in
>see this
What do?

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Can anyone tell me how well Nobu would do against Gil? It seems to me that Nobu would be a good counter to Gil but I’m not sure.

>Nope, he could tear Sakura to shreds if he got serious
It wasn't Sakura he was fighting you absolute mongoloid. Sakura was wearing pyrovision goggles at the time and Angry Manjew was actually behind the steering wheel. She was merely a meatbag.
And Goldie didn't know that, so he never even got the chance to use Ea.

I want a Saint Young Men/Fate crossover

>Gag shit character
Gil BTFOs her.
Her anti divine shit doesn't work on the actual high tier divine servants like Karna either.

>fanfic by sudou
>real series

It doesn’t? Then whom does it work against?

>Sudou wrote Heaven's Feel
There's a line between being a filthy secondary and being a fucking lemur. You've blitzkrieged through that line.

Turn 180 degrees and walk away.

>Those with "Mystery" are those that had illusory abilities in life and those who may have not existed at all.King Arthur, known for her interactions
with the Lady of the Lake
andExcalibur,Jack the Ripper,whose unknown identity and various unsolved mysteries,Sasaki Kojiro, who did not exist, andJoan of Arc, who heard the "Voice of God", all have mysterious elements to them. Others includeSolomon ibn Gabirol,Nursery Rhyme,Spartacus, andMordred. WhileGilgameshandKarnahave high Divinity, they are strong heroes able to match her directly.

The movie is his fanfic. While the parts we're discussing of a REAL series written by Nasu.

Fucked up the copy paste green text but you get the point.

long story short fate has no consistency when it comes to power levels and whoever wins will win because the writer demanded it

So her anti-divine shit DOES work on them, but their so op that they can compensate anyways? Am I understanding this correctly?

>She's also shitting herself.
??

The movie is just an opportunity to discuss the original VN written by Nasu and that's what we're discussing. The movie didn't change anything that would affect this discussion and is not used as a basis for it anyway, so that argument is invalid by default. You're on the other hand throwing in niggery from your gatchashit that Nasu wrote exclusively to extract easy money from retards like you. Fuck off to Yea Forums.

>Fate should never have continued post Stay Night.
Are there any fans in Japan who also think like this?

I merely answered a question. And gachashit is way better than Worms' feels anyway with Sudou removing it's only two saving graces, Ilya and Kotomine, there's no worth to even address the route.

Don’t run from it

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Pretty much

Anyone who likes Tsukihime more than Fate.

What if Moneybill had summoned Gil? Would Gil still job?