Localization

I can't believe people translate nakama these days too. It completely destroys the deep nuances of the word.

"Thanks you for the meal" sounds simple enough and straight to the point. Saying grace before a meal isn't even that foreign a concept espescially if you come from a country with Christian Practicioners.

The nuance between the two isn't that different for this case.

Sentence complexity has nothing to do with the issue at hand. It's not as if there's a point where a Japanese sentence becomes complex enough that it somehow magically conveys a meaning that is impossible to get across in English. Obviously the structure will change (that should be obvious even for basic sentences) but that's clearly not what OP is talking about.

But don't you want Disney Marvel-tier quips and "witty" dialogue that no one actually uses in real life? Don't you want rewritten characters and altered relationships?

You're watching a character,that is sitting on a chair,before eating,says "itadakimasu",what do you think it said?
Westerncucks know this practice very well since most of the westworld is either a christian or has an acquaintance that is christian and does these things,once again,there is no need to translate it due to how obvious it is.

>Complaining about localization when you still rely on the translations.
Learn Japanese then faggot.

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I am, mainly because of this faggot shit that people like you enable.
You don't. You should be able to tell be their accent yourself.

>Complaining about the train ride when you could bike the whole way instead

いいえ

I'm saying that simple sentences are easier to translate directly (literally) without turning into a clusterfuck. Interpretation is necessary especially because Japanese doesn't always convey necessary information and in a lot of instances relies on context, which the translator will have to guess, and that is adding information, which is what OP doesn't want. There are also differences in things that sound fine in Japanese but not in English, like using character's names instead of saying "you" or "he". A direct translation might leave a character's name in, which will sound awkward in English. Translation is all about dealing with the idiosyncrasies that exist in one language but not the other. More often than not a direct and literal translation is bad.

Contrary to what you seem to believe, translations are for people who don't know the language, not for people who can themselves pick out speech patterns or know a few dozen Japanese words already and can form simple sentences.

If I were a translator, I'd localize the shit out of it just to piss off wapanese faggots like OP

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Because you're reading it in a language that isn't fucking Japanese. The point of a translation is to make things as easy and simple to get for the language your translating it to. An average non-nip wouldnt know what the fuck "Itadakimasu" means. You're right that they can probably infer that it's some form of saying grace before the meal, but it doesn't quite hold the same religious context of saying grace. It's generally just a gesture of politeness. In which case, rendering it as "Thank you for the Meal" gets that idea across.

>You should be able to tell be their accent yourself
And how would a person who doesn't know a lick of Japanese be able to tell that they're speaking differently? How would they tell apart if a character is speaking in Kansai-ben or standard Tokyo Japanese?

>why criticize the airplane companies when you can swim across the ocean?

It depends on what is being said and what the author is trying to convey. Oftentimes a sentence is very pointedly implying something in Japanese that is not going to carry over if you do an overly literal translation.

> An average non-nip wouldnt know what the fuck "Itadakimasu" means.
Thank you for the meal doesn't have a religious connotation by itself,they hold the same meaning,but it's rather ambiguous,maybe if we were in mid 20th century it would lean towards a more religious side but by today standards you give the thanks to the cook,not the religious part.

>Ohayou turns into yo whats up nigha

it's ALWAYS EOPs saying this shit lol

The literal translation for ittadakimasu is something like i humbly receive this meal from god

You seem to misunderstand. I hate shit like changing a joke because it doesn't work in English or making a character say some quippy meme shit because some dumb redditor thinks "yare yare daze" means the same thing as "fucking cringe"

The official translation of Yare Yare Daze handles it as "Good Grief" which I think works well enough.

Buddhism,friend,if i remember well,they don't have gods,but what you're refering to is spirits,either way,Itadakimasu is said when taking a thing from another individual,in a common case,superior to the one saying it,or just for respect.

貴方は帰る要る

Changing a joke is fine sometimes. If you can understand the original joke then you probably know it in its entirety and can just listen to what the character says. If you don't know Japanese at all then there's no point in directly translating the joke. Might as well put in a replacement joke rather than bombard the watcher with translator's notes or leave them clueless as to what that was supposed to be about. Changing jokes doesn't always work and sometimes a joke is easy enough to grasp with a short translator's note but if there's a joke in English that gives off a similar feel I think it's fine do use that.

Translators notes are fine. I want a translation, not a dressed up atmospheric approximation.

Its not shinto?

that's still buddhism,and they're spirits.

Do you know what the word "samurai" means?
Do you know what a ninja is?
What about a bento box?
A katana?

Languages necessarily adopt idiomatic information when that information is pertinent. The notion of English language 'purism' or 'purity' was a fantasy borne out of the Victorians. There has never been a time at which the English language lexicon - or any language's lexicon - has refused ease of conveyance in favor of prescriptive tradition. Ever heard the phrase "memento mori"? It's a common phrase in English, taken from the Latin language. But it isn't a 2000 year-old hold-out from when the spoken Latin language flourished. It was invented and implemented into the written and spoken European languages in the 16th century relative to the increasing cultural significance of the concept.

Has "sensei" seen an increase in cultural relevance as Japanese media has become increasingly socially prevalent in English-speaking communities?
Have Japanese honorifics?
Are translators for common things not behoved of rationality to write in the vernacular?

The rhetorical nature of these questions belies the absurdity of the conservative position hereupon.

I think people really don't realize how different punch lines are in Japanese. The only times I've ever had to change lines in jokes is in the last panel of the 4koma with the punchline, but it's a consistent thing that happens like 50% of the time. The jokes are often structured such that the only purpose of the punchline is for the character to be surprised in a tsukkomi, and sometimes it's literally just the character repeating what's said to them back at the other character. This does not work in English, all the impact is lost, it's not funny. You can argue that if you're on Yea Forums and consume this much Japanese media then you can understand the cadence of what it's supposed to sound like, but I feel like having to pretend something is funny because you know how it's supposed to go is seriously not the ideal you want to strive for.

Yes, I have to change meaning *slightly* in ways where I try to make sure don't affect any other future joke or perception of the character, but you're just going to have to trust the translator on this one. All translation is localization, there's no perfect equivalents in any two languages no matter how similar they may seem, it's just the degree of the change that varies and that depends entirely on cultural context.

I'll even give you a concrete example,
mangadex.org/chapter/683297/5
In the last panel of the left strip, the original response is "That's a lie, right?" But no one responds like this in English while yelling as the original font implies. You'll note that the original intent is also preserved. (not believing the claim that it's not a big deal) I think you'll also agree this version works better and is funnier.

I knew what sensei meant when I was in middle school because I'd done some basic martial arts with a friend of my moms.

>This does not work in English, all the impact is lost, it's not funny
Incorrect. Besides, n

>I just want you to translate it into basic, no frills english so I can understand what they are saying.

Have fun with your no context language. You'll understand it but it'll sound retarded.

I'm going to translate that page literally with no adding of context and let you judge. Give me 10 minutes.

You're not paying for those translations, beggar

What a fucking horrible translation. If you did this, feel ashamed. You could have done "NO WAY!" To get the proper feeling, and it would have been better

Exactly.

>You'll understand it but it'll sound retarded.
It's not going to "sound" anything, because I'm going to read it and I would never repeat it in english. Dubs just shouldn't exist in the first place.

>like using character's names instead of saying "you" or "he"
This shit actually gets on my nerves, because translators often screw up the actual meaning of a sentence or the social relationship between two characters just because they don't want to translate something literally.
For example, in Dororo 2019, they were insisting to change one of the two protagonists calling the other "Big bro" just because they aren't actually brothers, they went out of their way using stuff like he, him, you, "Mister", and sometimes they translate it as the character's name itself, just to avoid "Big bro" which is actually important to understand the full context between the relationship between the two characters and understand the personality and upbringing of the one using it.

In any translation kami is made into god

This is why banning DJT was a mistake. People unironically have the attitude that posters here not only shouldn't be expected to try and understand japanese, but that even expecting someone to understand basic japanese in the first place is considered a ridiculous request.

>he hasn't learnt Japanese from watching anime

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Here, compare for yourself. This is what it looks like when I don't change anything and transliterate. It sounds retarded and like I'm actively trying to make it sound bad, but what I'm trying to demonstrate here is that the subject and object are quite often not stated explicitly and need to be interpreted from the implication. Often they're quite obvious like here but the point is that the act of translating languages like Japanese into languages like English necessarily require reinterpretation. It sounds like fucking sentence fragments.

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Post the raw so I can laugh at your google translate skills

The fallacious argument against "literality" quite deliberately ignores the principles of context and denotation. Derrida would describe your argument as an act of violence. Even so - you know exactly what you made and it isn't a transliteration.

Ok.

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I'm not the one ignoring context here. I'm demonstrating what people who don't want explicitation want. The point I'm trying to make is the inevitability in interpretation due to implied meanings in Japanese.

>Watch Dr Stoned Anime
>"Im Low Key excited about this"
>WTF is this

Do Japanese people scanlate english comics? What are some Japanese scanlation groups?

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the one on the right is the good one, right?
>so we should also head out-
I hate this, if there's an incomplete sentence, leave it incomplete, don't add the rest of it but then add a hyphen to imply there's more to it, even a little kid could guess what they were actually gonna say if he read the original.

Like it or not, phrases get coined in English all the time. Complaining about zoomer phrases is retarded when that's just part of natural language evolution.

The minute when I see anyone on this board write in language like the right panel is the minute I believe you.

Nigga you making me heated right now, i should molly wop yo ass

Japanese is a shitty repetitive language anyway filled with constant stock phrases. Translating it into raw English would literally make it look like it was written by a 3 year old

the most google translate post ive ever read

Why would they read inferior comics?

Looks fine to me besides the parts where you purposely omitted words.
>see later instead of See you later
Come on now, we both know that is NOT how you interpret that sentence. Japanese words have subject identifiers and you know this. Fucking retard.

Cope. Or did you want me to say 帰る？

>purposely
The original literally does not include those words. So which is it, you want me to ADD and CHANGE words, or do you want a literal translation?

Because they might translate english porn comics or there might be a hardcore marvel autist somewhere out there

Are you fucking retarded? The grammar in that post is no where close to anything resembling any language.

You added the subject in the last bubble though. Atleast be consistent

>I'm demonstrating what people who don't want explicitation want. The point I'm trying to make is the inevitability in interpretation due to implied meanings in Japanese.
You don't seem to have understood what I mean, so I'm going to provide a counter-demonstration.

>私はジョンです。
This does not necessarily mean "I am John".

>interpretation due to implied meanings in Japanese
They are connotative in English. They are denotative in Japanese.

>see later instead of See you later
>Come on now, we both know that is NOT how you interpret that sentence. Japanese words have subject identifiers and you know this. Fucking retard.

>subject identifiers
oh wait you're serious let me laugh harder. I posted the original. Do you fucking see a は?

Using the kanji for あなた for some random person, really using a subject at all has absolutely no style

Should have kept "has something happened," "Jeez, so not cute," "If you put it that way," and "You're lying right." Everything else you wrote instead of those sentences was a ridiculous level of localization that destroyed the original meaning of the sentence, and had NO REASON to be changed, because it's already perfectly understandable in English.

You're right, I just did the same translation as I gave earlier in the thread without thinking about it. It should be "Lie, right!?"

Again, that counterexample makes it pretty clear that I'm not the one you have the issue with.

wow, a non-argument, disappointing
this is basically what translators think, because if translating the same sentences in different ways multiple times in a single episode means anything, it's this

I changed sentences in a way that I felt was the closest to expressing the actual emotions of the character in English. IMO keeping "literal" translations sometimes even misrepresents intended meaning through grammar structures that convey subtle detail.

Demonstrate to me how any of those are a "ridiculous level of localization". How exactly is "If you put it that way" a bastardization of "If it's said like that"?

Implying it doesn't mean "see you later", literally as well. Or do you pretend that there is no difference between the meanings of phonetically identical kana and kanji as well? And in a literal, quite literal way too.

In this case you're right in that it's a phrase that developed a meaning that's more than the sum of its components, but it's telling that you picked that example and that example only when the dozens of other cases I had don't work for your argument.

Really? You literally didn't give any argument except "the right one is better". How about attacking the actual contents of my position, which has been made abundantly clear in multiple other posts, rather than the argument itself, of which I've made many more than you have.

>don't localize
>what, you want literal translation?
>no, just don't localize, you can translate withou-
>LITERAL machine translation just won't make sense dude, it'll all look like a mess, why do you want that

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Learn Japanese then, you dumb fuck.

Anything that isn't literal machine translation is by definition localized.

translators, like all people who perceive themselves as artists or creators, are straight up the blackest baboon niggers when it comes to being egotistical faggots

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Machine translation is localized, someone had to pick which of the possible contextual translations would be the default one for the computer to use

How much is too much?

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>Wants machine translated dialogue
Yeah, you're definitely an EOP. Reading anything EOPs write is fucking painful.

be careful user you will wake up the burger with their nasty dubfaggotery

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I'm trying to make sure YOU enjoy things as much as possible. I've seen too many retarded misunderstandings that happen where readers don't even know their fundamental understanding of something is based on wrong assumptions.

I don't want another tragedy like Konosuba's "Crimson Demons" to happen. No one in the fanbase even realizes this is a retarded mistranslation that stemmed from being too literal.

>The minute when I see anyone on this board write in language like the right panel is the minute I believe you.
This is what was done above, but it seems it was misunderstood. Typical from someone who supports unnecessary localization, amiright?

did you just call me a nigger?

>tfw ISO/currency are translated to burger units/buck
Fuck American.

>I'm trying to make sure YOU enjoy things as much as possible
Get off your high horse

You don't even know English. Quit your yapping, troglodyte.

Can someone post an example of this mythic 1:1 translation no localization whatsoever?

Localization literally improves the script of some anime because guess what, it's actually shit. All the recording is done after the animation, most of the time restraining freedom in what you actually can say since you need to match the mouth's movements before all else. But keep deluding yourself, honorifics tards aren't exactly known for being the brightest.

How long does it takes to learn Japanese? I am already bilingual

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我欲す頓單純英語翻訳翻譯物有りて於是悟す為り事

>it's actually shit
if you hate anime so much, then fuck off
simple doesn't equal shit. I bet you complain about よつばと!'s dialogue too

Wrong, localization is actively changing someone's line to fit the culture it's translate to. It's about shit like when a character goes "user-kun..." when there's a heavy atmosphere but when localized it just straight up changes to a whole sentence because just saying the name sounds weird to someone not knowing jack shit about japanese. That's just an example off the top of my head.
You're making things awkward for the MAJORITY of the viewers in order to make things sound better for the handful of people that are new to this shit.

this makes it obvious you google translated
anyone with basic knowledge of japanese knows anata is written in hiragana 99.9% of the time

Oh yeah? I don't believe you

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romaji

cope

An hour or so to learn kana A few months to learn the vocab and grammar thousands of hours to learn all the kanji

When the translator interprets the line it necessarily imparts culture.
"Bathroom" is not "Washroom" is not "Toilet".
I keep honorifics, by the way.

i don't know, how long does it take to learn english? you study it for over a decade in school but most children speak well enough before they're even 10
if you want to be able to bare-minimum survive in japan, half a year? probably even less if you drop grammar and just memorize a few words and basic phrases
to be understood as much as any child? Two to four years, depending on how intuitive japanese grammar is to you
to be fluent? four to seven years
after that there's still a wealth to study but you get into the territory of knowing more than most Japanese people are expected to know

豈況や信難くば致方無

Except you need a fuck "TL note" explaining that japs separate the toilet from the bathroom which defeats the purpose.
Again, the majority already know it. Only a few people benefit from "improving" the script to suit foreign culture, if any since most of them watch dubs anyway

Because people use that phrase on a daily basis.

Sorry user but if you aren't willing to learn Japanese despite translators doing their best to motive your sorry ass than you deserve to eat shit.

yeah you've said that twice now - I don't think it means what you think it means
I think you probably just don't have the ability or energy to think beyond a few prescripted options somebody much funnier than you came up with and you parrot his intent as a way to vicariously seem like an actual person, when you are in fact just a shadow or jumble of atoms "merely pretending" to be one

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That...wasn't the point I was making. I'm saying similar words can have subtly different implied meanings. Maybe that wasn't the best example.
What would you translate ニヤニヤ as? Yes, it's smile, but not just any normal smile. "Grin" is usually used, but why? There are differences that make "Grin" different from "Smile", and from "Smirk", etc. In this case there's usually an accepted standard translation, but that's not always the case. The translator has to parse what information is trying to be conveyed then choose a translation that fits, that process by definition imparts the culture and cultural context of the translator. In this case, that "Grin" is a particular sort of self satisfying type of smile that can be quite smug.

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So that is translation? You've opened my eyes, I understand now that localization is undeniably better. I'll give it a hand
>Yo check it out, moon looks totally huge
There, now our lovely newcomers won't get confused

Please tell me this is official

Two people yelling angrily at inanimate strawmen, both sure of their victory.

Don Quixote

more cope

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LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Alright, you want a serious answer? I'm still learning, so fuck off. I use kanji for the beginning of words because it's easier for me to keep track of what I'm writing. I'm aware it's atypical.

im just having a laugh, good for you man. you're still a poser faggot tho

Sarcasm points at the strawman, doesn't create another, for the sake of disproving the argument. Disproving an argument doesn't necessarily prove one's own counter-argument so that was never my intention.

Language is suppose to convey ideas, so who cares?

localization is absolutely necessary to a certain degree, you're simply not happy with people have shitty opinions and localizing the way they think is right. (it's not)

分からないなら黙っていなさい

>localization is absolutely necessary to a certain degree

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Absolutely, some amount of localisation is necessary. Most of it I'm willing to live with, but I can't stand it when it's too localised to a specific locale. For example outright changing dialogue to use Fahrenheit instead of Celsius, miles instead of kilometres, etc.

Translating is a thankless job, it's usually people complaining about stuff like . Rarely heard complaints about Senko-san even though it's subs were liberal as fuck.

>character says un or uun
>grunt
Based retard

Could be because no-one's watching Senko-san. And if you're one of the translators that feels the need to change perfectly good measurements to what Americans use, do it with translator notes, not actual dialogue changes.

Umu.

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>Rarely heard complaints about Senko-san even though it's subs were liberal as fuck.
Guessing it's because they weren't as glaring as things like "Through the Dark Lord, Amen"

有無（うむ）

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There's taking liberties that work, and then there's that.

No one wants transliteration, but no one wants you to turn Japanese characters into Americans either. If the changes are severe enough you're calling it "localization" (to what locale? I thought English was a world language?) you're probably going too far.

>voice: Senko-san
>subs: Senko
It's unwatchable. I didn't finish the anime because of it.

>implying any anime is deep enough to require knowing the exact meaning behind every phrase in the original text
>thinking japanese people have feelings just because they've robotically attached words for situations as specific as walking in on your mom with the mail man

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there is not a "direct" translation of japanese's honorific in english and when they try it usually prertty shit, like a schoolboy calling another just ONE year older sir, mr, miss, your excellency, etc.
Dunno why they hate it so much, you can read so much of the character personalities and bonds by the way the refer to each other.

Are you autistic? Who gives a shit

>voice: Senko-san
>subs: Ms. Senko

I think people tend to forget there is a difference between localization and just up right changing shit entirely
Funimation is getting worse and worse and it and probably accounts for more than 60% of why people hate dubs now a days. I have no problem with localization as long as it still keeps the spirit and tone of the original without sacrificing too much of the dialogue that was there to begin with.

"No"

>voice: Hai
>subs: No

That isn't actually wrong, as such, depending on context.

I don't really care when honorifics are removed but that drives me up the wall. Especially if it's between something like classmates

>character A: "I have the best wares in all the lands!"
>character B: "U-umu"
>translation "Yes."
I don't give two halves of a hot flying fuck what "uguu" or whatever actually litterally means I just want the best interpretation of what that vocalization means in context. Only reason I don't watch dubs is because the voice actors are typically really shitty, or if both sets of VA's are bad I can excuse a lot of stupid shit because they're speaking in moon.

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Similar. Things like Shinji saying "Ayanami" and the subs keep saying "Rei" the whole time. No, she's saying Ayanami. It's more OK in EoE when Rei says "Ikari-kun" and the subs say Shinji as that's who she's referring to is calling her as Gendo is confronting her in-person.

>he cant japanese
dekinai

> um / yup / yea / yep / yeet / right / aha / aye / ok / indeed / true / well / fine / sure / exactly / uh-huh
> we can only use "yes"

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>axioms
Idioms?

Translations with notes are a jumping board towards learning the language, localizations are for people who don't give a fuck.

*戻るべっし
GB2 Tae Kim

>wapanese
Nice. 'Weeb' has lost most of it's edge, this one's pretty good.

Do you even know the origins of "weeaboo"?

Look up the historical differences between yes, yea, no and nay.

is that a srs q or are you being obtuse on purpose? get with the times grandpa

Hey, I'm not the one acting like the term "wapanese" is a new development.

何で「っ」を使ったんだ

Based.

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Hello, I only came here for two reasons.
1. Laughing at the people who seriously thinking being against Japanese is valid when they're in a forum for discussion of a Japanese entertainment medium where they listen to Japanese audio.
2. Showing up on Herkz's screencaps.

Anyone who want's a translation instead of a localization is a fucking idiot.

Read this thread, and see how a literally translated line can lose all meaning when translated into english
twitter.com/moriyoshijon/status/1165078306422546432

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Look at the change, in this scene Kiryu is supposed to be helping this man and being kind with him, but by literally translating the Japanese (pic), you end up with a very aggressive response. Localizing words and sentences to get the original meaning when it would be lost is always better, unless you're a fucking retard who wants pure shit.

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What you're calling translation is more accurately called transliteration, and what you're calling localisation should be called translation. Localisation would be, for instance, changing talking about the Yakuza to talking about the Mafia.

This user is correct. Anyone who says “I WANT A DIRECT TRANSLATION FROM JAPANESE WITH NOTHING ADDED/CHANGED” obviously doesn’t know Japanese. Subjects and objects are often omitted and the sentence of structure can be changed at will to put focus on different parts. A bad translator will localize when it’s not needed or directly translate something even if it sounds awkward or doesn’t make sense in English. A good translator should be able to read a sentence, understand the author’s intent and nuances of the sentence, and translate said nuances and intent into English, even if the words aren’t all exactly the same. The sad part is a lot of these people bitching about “localization” don’t realize this and that their favorite anime and manga have all had this done to an extent. I guess I shouldn’t expect EOPs to be smart or logical

Japanese is basically Yoda-speak

>A direct translation would likely be unintelligible
Then it wouldn't be a translation. The output needs to be valid English for a function to be considered translation. Very few languages are similar enough that you could translate word for word, most require restructuring text.

Considering the woke debacle they managed to get themselves into, how would dub even think about prospering after this?

Fuck off newfag

This thread is a perfect example of why I will never ever TL for raw dumps or do something like join a scanlation team. I TL manga I'm not even interested in just to stay in practice, but doing the work to TL a release just to get complaints that you put it into coherent english feels totally pointless, especially when I'm doing it for free.
Just because you know a few words and common phrases doesn't mean that you have even a 1% grasp on the nuances of the language.
Learn the language if you're going to spit in the face of people putting work into something that you're not even paying for.

>Hurr I want to freely change the story and insert my own interpretation, paradigms, and politics in it.
This is how you sound like.

based retard

Just tell us which work are you TLing where you will complain about toxic masculinity and Goobly Gamers and all that shit so we can avoid it like the plague.

You can't change what these words mean to suit your biases. Transliteration of Japanese gets you to romaji, and that's it. If you're using English words, you're not transliterating Japanese, by definition.

>valid English
>restructuring text
In other words, localization.

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It's fun to laugh at subhum/a/n EOPs.

Its all because leftist and SJW scum trying to appropriate anime as propaganda material just like they did video games. If that episode of dubbed Prison School and Dragon Maid weren't warning bells to you guys already, I don't know what will be.

I hate localizers so much that I'm genuinely considering going full amphetaNEET for the next few months out of spite for the stupid fucks. Where do I start, Yea Forums?

ITT: No one can agree on the definition of a localization

>In other words, localization.
No, translation. You can't translate without extracting meaning from text in one language and constructing new text in the other language. That's my point, you need to make shit up even if you're not "localizing" when dealing with languages as different as english and japanese. If the result is incomprehensible you haven't really translated anything.

Hmm need ketamine i do

>anata
>formal
Are you drunk?

If you think that proves anything about this localization topic, you're the fucking idiot.

"Oh, I didn't spend time thinking how to write this to get the intent across so that's the translation and so therefore phrasing that does is localization. That proves localization is better and SUPER necessary."

Retard.

>Anyone who says “I WANT A DIRECT TRANSLATION FROM JAPANESE WITH NOTHING ADDED/CHANGED” obviously doesn’t know ....

That's more about them not knowing that "Direct Translation" is its own term and not seperate.

The script is written beforehand retard.

Sounds like you'd consent to transforming "I like apples" to "I love the lush red produces of our farming commune, so communism works."

Even with the argument about the definition it doesn't stop it being clear which elements of a translation annoy a lot of people.

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"Subjects and objects are often omitted and the sentence of structure can be changed at will to put focus on different parts." is true for pretty much every language but English.

>If that episode of dubbed Prison School and Dragon Maid weren't warning bells to you guys already, I don't know what will be.
I don't watch dubs, what happened?

The thing is that nobody complains about rearranging Japanese lines so they make sense in English given all the peculiarities of the language (something that happens in the translation of basically every language into something that doesn't have the same root by the way), the issue is when you make shit up because you thought it would be funny, that it would be in-character, or when you think it's close enough to an equivalent because you believe your target public is retarded.
Using the world-famous example of いただきます:
>thanks for the meal: OK
>through the fire and the flames, thank you dark lord for the grub I'm about to stuff into my belly A-FUCKING-MEN: not OK
Is that really so fucking hard to understand?
When people ask for translations, they want to see the original text adapted into a language they understand. They don't want to see you showing off your frustrations thanks to your inability to become a professional writer, causing you to rewrite the entire dialog of something because you have the ability to do so. That's the gist of it, and if it didn't happen as fucking often as it sadly does, this topic wouldn't be retreaded this frequently.

>leave honorifics
Fuck you, user-chan. This sounds fucking retarded. Your papa-dono would be disappointed.
>barely intelligible sentences are OK
In a few gears you will hate the you that said such a shameful thing.
>leave some sentences directly in Japanese
Urusai you kuso brain. Your keikaku to make us all look like baka otaku will not work. Everything will be daijobu, minna.

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>Yes, honorifics need to be kept, they matter and have meaning that anyone who has seen more than one anime can understand.
No. People who want honorifics kept in subtitles are honestly retarded. If you know what honorifics are and you're listening to the original Japanese audio, you can hear which honorifics are being used. You don't need to see them again in the subs. The same goes for people who honestly want idioms like 'itadakimasu' untranslated in subs. Why the fuck would you need anything untranslated in subs? You know they said 'Itadakimasu' because you just heard them say it, you dumb fucking weeaboo.

If memory serves someone shoehorned a comment about GamerGate into the English script for Prison School. Dunno what he's getting at with Dragon Maid though, I don't watch dubs either.

>it can't be helped
>it can't be helped
>it can't be helped

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Weebs need to learn faster.
Subs should be entirely in katakana

Just fine. What, is japanese the only language where people have dialects and weird ways of speaking?

Neither do I. I remember it was that Prison School had a line changed where a girl chastising a guy for not being polite enough to her, an upperclassman. searched for it.

Japanese:
You keep talking to me like we’re on equal terms, but I’m a 2nd year. You have to address a superior more politely. Shut… up…”

FUNimation:
“Woah, cut the breaks Arthur Fonzarelli. You got a stick up your ass, or are you one of those dumbass GamerGate creepshows?”

Dragon Maid Japanese:
Tohru: “What’s with that outfit?”
Lucoa: “Everyone was always saying something to me, so I tried toning down the exposure. How is it?”
Tohru: “You should try changing your body next.”

FUNimation:
Tohru: “What are you wearing that for?”
Lucoa: “Oh those pesky patriarchal societal demands were getting on my nerves, so I changed clothes.”
Tohru: “Give it a week, they’ll be begging you to change back.”

>umm well you see achtchually you can't just translate "Nakama" as "friends" because in this context and this manga targeted at literal children this word carries a deep meaning and nuance that can't possibly be conveyed properly in english

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Who are you quoting?

...

FUNimation, Tyson Rinehart:
>If you think rape threats against women in gaming are acceptable, I’m glad my script pissed you off. #PrisonSchool #itwasjustonelineyounerds

But that's what it means. It's one of the most common set phrases in the language. It can't be helped. :^)

what is sarcasm

if the anime is written like shit, the translations should be too.
otherwise you could write your own book

That's because you ARE actively trying to make it look bad to support your argument
That, or you fall right into the category of people that think that translating literally means you need to also ignore any actual translating done and leave it at a broken mess.

That's not a problem of translation. If the language is shit, it's clearly not worth the time.

Rub-a-dub-dub, thanks for the grub!

lurk more

>deep nuances of the word
it just means comrade

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>うわあああ日本語がムヅガヂィィ！
>ううう ううう
>たづげでプリーズお兄とぅわ〜ん！

見っともねぇなこのボードのゲスどもめ

>there are unironic "thanks for the grub" translations out there, especially from "professional" sources

しょうがない
仕方がない

しゃあねぇ

yeah that reminds of this video
youtu.be/tjvq3AONXmE
the guy here says: "Don't worry, I'm wearing"
But the thing is, "wearing" in English must be followed by what he's wearing.
The term he should be using in English is, "I'm clothed/dressed." Which sounds retarded to be honest. Personally I didn't notice this issue because I'm an ESL and using our equivalent of "wearing" is sufficient enough.
This is just one example that shows how much English is retarded and stiff as a language, and it being the #1 spoken language around the world is simply a mistake.

Honorifics are retarded. Just using the last name instead of the first name is enough and sounds less retarded than "senpai."

dubfags will defend this

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What's Crunchyroll's excuse then?

>have been expose to nip media for nearly the past two decades and while can't directly understand everything, have picked up a decent number of words/phrases
>watching a random chinese cartoon or playing a video game or something
>reading along with subtitles
>tfw noticing odd nuances pop up in the subtitles that, while not entirely incorrect, it's also not exactly correct, either and is clearly a localized effort

I hate this.
Even super minimal/simple stuff like translating a spoken line of (what I think was) "eh nani ka? warukamo kowai" as "it's freaking me out" instead of an expanded "What is that? I'm scared" or "I don't know what's going on, I'm scared."
And while honestly, that amount of localization is pretty much fine and just feels weird/awkward to notice, where it's really garbage is where they just completely change the entire fucking sentence/mood/tone for no fucking reason at all other than to act as a mouthpiece for whatever the person translating/"localizing" it wants to fucking say instead.

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Better idea: Just watch it in the original Japanese.

People will tell you off, but you are absolutely right, if I wanted something localized towards American I would just watch an American show.

Translations are inevitably destructive. Every translator that defends their destructive translation, will do so on the premise of "this level of destruction is necessary, this level of destruction is accepted and expected". That's if they're at least being honest, if it's your typical commie apologist they'll probably resort to logical fallacies instead because they know Yea Forums effectively expects what they consider impossible.

The fact of the matter is what what Yea Forums seeks is a completely different methodology from standard translation. Rather than a destructive english rewrite of the speech, what Yea Forums wants is an aid for understanding the spoken japanese itself.

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Just don't go over the top with it like changing Yen to Dollars "because it's easier to relate to"
That means nothing to me either because I'm not in the USA

>Woah, cut the breaks Arthur Fonzarelli. You got a stick up your ass, or are you one of those dumbass GamerGate creepshows?

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What if a character relation goes from senpai -> last name -> first name?
What if a character relation goes from using -san to using -chan -kun?
What if a character points out the lack of honorifics?

Why would you go out of your way to make more complicate something that's very simple and anyone that watched anime for more than a month would understand.
The only time it's ok to drop honorifics is on a western setting.

I'm pretty much in the same spot.
On one hand I want to say it's useful, on the other it's possibly the worst situation because I'm still going to heavily rely on translations, but I can realize every single flaw of those

"It can't be helped" is actually perfectly good English and pre-dates this whole retarded fansubbing era.

How do you translate "Onee-sama"?

I've never heard someone utter "it can't be helped" when something that can't be helped happens

But they could utter it, that is all that matters.

I have. Not super often, but I have.

>He can't help it, he has cerebral palsy.

I just don't like when characters says one phrases, but in translation there is completely different ass pulled phrases.

the point of words isn't to convey the meaning of the words, its to communicate your thoughts and feelings.
prioritizing the denotative meaning of the words at the expense of what the character is trying to convey butchers the script more than the opposite
Of course, as in all things you should pursue the middle path and listen to your intuition rather than subscribing wholesale to any kind of hard rules

as long as it is understandable, why change it?
They don't need to change every sentence to its generic English counterpart when the actual translation does the job just as well, if not even better than their questionable interpretation.
You're watching stuff subbed and not dubbed after all, so expecting an unusual phrasing for a sentence is never really off putting.

I've reached the point where I know enough simple/common phrases where the subtitles are more of a guideline than a requirement.
I don't really give a shit if they're slightly off because I can recognise when they are

Why don't you lazy fucks just learn Japanese? It's not that hard, you can be happily reading light novels within like eight months.

>Rather than a destructive english rewrite of the speech, what Yea Forums wants is an aid for understanding the spoken japanese itself
Spot on.

This is basically where I'm at too.

>the point of words isn't to convey the meaning of the words

agreed some words that cant be translated its better if they leave them in

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And if they're feeling nice that day, put a TL Note in.

You can learn japanese by watching anime. I mean some people here were watching it for 20 even 30 years. I can't believe they didn't learn anything from that.

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You know you can cut out the middleman right?

>Jeez, so not cute Jeez, you're so not cute
and
>Are the two already at home? I think they should be there soon
are good examples of adding and losing information respectively through localisation. If you were to stop leaving out words and disregarding English grammatical structure, the translation on the right would be significantly better than the one on the left.

this

>voice: カンナたちまだ？
>subs: They haven't returned yet.

just learn japanese

Sensei, please don't -chan at me.

>Fuck you, user-chan. This sounds fucking retarded. Your papa-dono would be disappointed.
You've just shown that -chan and -dono can be incorporated into the English nominal phrase without issue, so how does it sound "fucking retarded"?

Based incels.

In Dragon Maid there was a throwaway joke about "toxic masculinity" in one episode. Based gaymergayters got all triggered and shat their collective pants on Twitter.

The translator then, to mock these autists, added yet another joke talking about "heteronormarive patriarchy" or something in another episode.

Of course, the GG kiddos once again had a meltdown and threw a tantrum in Twitter. To this day they use that second scene as "proof" of the evil SJW transexuals using anime to push their evil agenda or something like that.

nice spacing

Because it sounds fucking retarded, adds nothing to dialogue and only a filthy weeb would see that as anything but cringeworthy.

You sound really insecure. There's nothing cringeworthy about honorifics.

This shit on the right isn't fucking English

>Woe is me, I can't believe people would be so cruel as to disagree with me on translation philosophy.

commiesubs pls

It's only simple because you have assumed it is. In the real world, you can simply omit the honorifics when they're using -san, -chan and -kun (98 % of the time) and the idea will remain the same. When it's a more formal thing you can go for the last name or add something like "mister," "miss," "lady" or whatever.

Whenever a character changes the way to assess another character, the entire dialogue usually shifts too from formal to informal or vice-versa; or more aggresive/passive language is used. There is no need for honorifics.
"Sister" is already formal enough.

>buh muh portfolio

Wbat's the point in translating if you can't please everyone?

avoiding that is straight up impossible
what you think the author was trying to say with a given line is inevitably influenced by your own interpretations, paradigms, and politics.

>Whenever a character changes the way to assess another character, the entire dialogue usually shifts too from formal to informal
Yeah like in those so rare school settings, where it literally does not, and of course one doesn't need to translate all the scenes with "c-call me X(without honorifics) from now on" because like who cares about that, it's not like it was meant to signify something important or anything, right?

You have literally ignored the half of the points he raised, just stfu.

Fuck off Herkz and /or Xythar

To make the meaning of media which would otherwise be obscured by a language barrier clear.
I don't see how not pleasing everyone changes that.

The same thing is true of the narrative itself, but it's not really acceptable to package nyan nyan sugar girls as a Ghibli movie on the grounds that that's how you interpreted the latter.

>sorry for bothering you, [last name]
>you don't need to be so formal...
That's it. Depending on the context there would be more elegant ways to do it.

>Because it sounds fucking retarded
Circular.
>adds nothing to dialogue
Objectively false
>only a filthy weeb would see that as anything but cringeworthy.
Do you find the honorific "Mr." to be cringeworthy?

>he has literally failed to read again
It's no wonder you argue for omitting honorifics, seeing you can't comprehend human speech at all. Keep on it, based retard.

>only a filthy weeb would see that as anything but cringeworthy
So you're saying that using honorifics is bad because the people who consume this media would rather have honorifics?
I'm trying to understand your logic but I'm not sure there's any logic to understand.

This shit actually drove me insane in Danganronpa because almost all the characters are referred to by their surname in the voices (because they're Japanese) but by their first names in the subs. It's at its worst for the first few hours of the game where all this dramatic stuff is happening and you have no idea who the fuck anyone is because you have to remember 32 different names

>Circular
Pointing out a supposed fallacy is a fallacy in itself. There are things that simply are or have a characteristic and thus don't need to be explained, for instance:
>the cat has 4 paws
because the cat has 4 paws
In this case it's self-explanatory, and so is my comment. Honorifics sound retarded. It doesn't require further explanation, as it's a characteristic of honorifics thesemselves.
>Objectively false
All the "nuance" added by Japanese honorifics are already part of the dialogue. In the same way you don't address your mother, your girlfriend or a female co-worker in the same way, dialogue usually is enough to indicate the difference between a "-san" a "-chan" and a "-sama."
>Do you find the honorific "Mr." to be cringeworthy?
No because it's not a foreign word shoehorned into the dialogue for no reason. It should be used whenever it's necessary.

>don't answer that, just answer what I want to read!
Wew.

>moooooooom he's making me address the points he actually raised instead of constantly falling back to what nobody has argued with! make him stop!
Based retard.

>No because it's not a foreign word shoehorned into the dialogue for no reason. It should be used whenever it's necessary.
It's not "for no reason", it's literally part of what you're trying to communicate.
Conversely, E->J translations invariably use honorifics and maintain western name order.

>point 1: how to translate changes in relationships like going from -san to -chan without honorifics
Addressed.
>point 2: how to translate changes such as honorifics -> no honorifics in, for example, a school setting without using honorifics
Addressed too.

>Just because I learned the Japanese language and consuming Japanese media is my primary hobby doesn't mean I like Japan, that would be cringe.

>stop using foreign words
>doesn't realise half of english is foreign words

Can we resuect /djt/ at this point?

>Just because I learned the Japanese language
I didn't and neither did you. Otherwise you wouldn't be using subs or dubs.
>and consuming Japanese media is my primary hobby
That's actually cringe desu.
>doesn't mean I like Japan
Liking Japan is one thing, liking honorifics in translated works is another thing and using retarded words like "itadakimasu" IRL is fucking cringe. Even the Japanese cringe at foreign otaku so there's that too.

>to -chan without honorifics
dafuq I'm reading

> for example, a school setting without using honorifics

>classmates speak with each other as usual, and there's no honorifics in translation, because fuck them
>"dude, like, don't be so formal" (was actually a relationship deepening moment, but fuck that)
>the viewer be like, "wot, dafuq r u referring to anyway?"
>classmates keep speaking with each other as usual, except for lack of honorifics, which weren't there in the translation to begin with
>the viewer be like, "so what's changed?"

Yeah, like totally addressed. Based Retard.

"Sister" sounds like what a nigress would say to a clerk behind the counter

You could just go to /int/ for it

I'll never understand why Anglotards are so scared of using Japanese words. I never seen anyone complain about 'Bon Appetit', but say it in Japanese and they get an aneurysm.

>Conversely, E->J translations invariably use honorifics and maintain western name order.
Wait a minute...

So...

You're saying that...

Japanese translations...

Localize dialogue?!

Of course they do because that's what every country does when translating foreign works. Keeping barely-intelligble sentences and Japanese words for no reason is the weeb equivalent to Mexican Spanglish.

The thread yesterday got deleted after a few hours but people do keep trying.
Maybe if people keep trying it could stick but it feels like the only way would be to have threads about a raw manga that happens to have Japanese discussion related to it.

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>I didn't and neither did you. Otherwise you wouldn't be using subs or dubs.
This is a discussion for how translators should translate things, so the subject would have. Unless translation itself is cringe.
>Liking Japan is one thing, liking honorifics in translated works is another thing and using retarded words like "itadakimasu" IRL is fucking cringe. Even the Japanese cringe at foreign otaku so there's that too.
Why is cringe the only thing that matters to you here?

Any relationship changes should be accompained with vocabulary changes, characters being closer and/or other visual cues like blushing or shit like that. If the only way to show a relationship change is to remove a single syllable at the end of a word then the work is poorly written.

I meant english honorifics, obviously - why would I pair it with the note that they use western name order otherwise?

Meme subs are cancer but literally every readable translation is a localization.

for translating it to a "wider audience" for want of a better term i get it, like not having honorifics and translating words like itadakimasu for an anime movie that plays in theaters or something but i think for fansubs it's pretty reasonable to use jap words for the most part
there have been plenty of times where i've googled shit because i don't know what on earth the subs are saying because they use extremely obscure words which arguably makes it a bad translation too

People can argue about any other forms of localization all they want, but removing or revising honorrifics, ESPECIALLY when it's used as plot device, is absolutely inexcusable.

Depends on who you're translating it for. I like including honorifics but there are ways around it.

What information was lost/gained? The first one adds the subject, which is very clearly implied, and the second line actually has the same subject. The fact that there's two of them and where they're going is already known.

Because he's an ironic weeb, so everything has to be in English, even if that English is grammatically awkward or uses things like big brother as a proper noun. Why do you think he used "filthy weeb" as an insult earlier in the thread?

reminder

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>why yes of course I will rewrite the entire first half of an anime to make characters speak in stilted speech and the entire second half to make characters refer to each other "dude" just because there was such a scene in the middle, which I may or may have not anticipated coming as I was translating the episodes as they were aired, so I may or may not need to release a v2 of the subs for the entire first half.
>yes, all that while keeping honorifics is ostensibly sloppy work and the viewers are retarded
Well okay, if it's your time, nobody stops you, based retard.

Not only japanise do that.

As for me, literal translations are no good

Nice strawman. Japanese as a language already has a bunch of emphasis in certain phrases and way of speaking that change between characters which is why the whole "honorifics is the only way to dennote changes in relationships" is a lie in the first place.

I don't like burger units either, but let's be honest, no one would give a fuck if someone wrote 60 cm instead of 2 shaku (60.6 cm).

Because 「は！」 is actually the more polite, subservient way of saying ‘yes’.

They changed a line about being heterosexual in Dragon Maid, iirc

except I have almost never seen a single translation/localization where this took place. It's always some memey fuck shit or some asspulled "quirky" phrase.
>through the dark lord, amen
fuck that shit. """Localization""" cocksuckers have just shown me how incredibly hypocritical the whole "multicultural" rhetoric is in the West despite how much they push it. When it becomes even mildly inconvenient to engage with or doesn't suit their sensibilities it's off to beat the thing with the localization stick. Fuck off, I didn't come to Japanese pop-culture looking for something different just so lazy fucks could paint over it on account of sheer laziness to engage with a language/culture outside their familiarity. Localization is just a marketing ploy to pull in an audience that are lazy fucks, and an excuse for translators to play writers.

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Sorry, I misread your original argument, because it was so retarded I couldn't even accept the possibility that you really mean what you have meant.

>well yes, let's just omit the important moment, because the viewer should get the idea anyway
>and if the work is so sloppy that you can't get the idea, well, sucks to be you, viewer, I'll just make it even worse for you
>because I just don't like honorifics
Are you like an obsessive-compulsive case or something?

>Japanese as a language already has a bunch of emphasis in certain phrases
Yeah the problem is translating it while keeping the nuance, and you can't even stuff all the polite and humble inflections into English, so of course you must also get rid of honorifics too which you actually can. What is actually wrong with you?

I usually agree with all that but in Sabagebu Poorara was a much better nickname than Unrara.

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… okay, you have a point, but please don’t butcher it and read up some linguistic terms next time.
>subject identifiers
Sure, Jap has them. Not in this sentence, though. There’s not even a subject there. There isn’t even a subject in the English ‘See you later!’.
And you faggot learn that は doesn’t denote subjects.

>WHOAH YOU'RE TELLING ME TAIGA IS IN LOVE WITH RYUJI???? HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO KNOW, SHE STILL USES THE SAME HONORIFICS TO ADDRESS HIM!!!!!

>WHOAH YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT CHARACTER GROWTH SHOULD BE APPARENT THROUGH DIALOGUE, CONTEXT AND SCENES INSTEAD OF SIMPLY CHANGING STOPPING TO SAY "-KUN"?!

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>Rather than a destructive english rewrite of the speech, what Yea Forums wants is an aid for understanding the spoken japanese itself.
THANK YOU.

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は denotes subjects.

>I just want you to translate it into basic, no frills english

What if it's not basic no frills Japanese? Honorifics don't matter in 90% of cases they're simply phatic expressions, if you don't undertsand the difference between a semantic and phatic expression then you have no business talking about translation anyway.

Most regional dialects are weird post-position changes and slurring. Japanese: A reference grammar (it's only 1000 pages) details a lot of this.

>an aid for understanding the spoken japanese itself.
That's what translations should always have been and continue to be

The arrogance, you can't speak the language worth shit but because you recognise some stock phrases you think you know nuance?

You don't. Just translate what they're saying god damn. The dialect will come through in the vocal dialogue

I prefer a translation that is as literal as possible, even if it doesn't really resemble normal English anymore. Helps you pick up Japanese.

It doesn't though. If you want to actually learn the first thing about Japanese read Jay Rubin's Gone Fisihin. He'll correct your incorrect concept of wa and ga in about 50 pages.

>There’s not even a subject there.
TECHNICALLY but as per the way Japanese kids are taught. The zeroth subject is always there implicitly if there isn't anything else to contest.

>WHOAH, THERE'S SUCH THING AS FLAGS AND TURNING POINTS????!!! NEVER HEARD OF 'EM, YOU MUST BE IMAGINING THINGS.

>WHOAH, YOU'RE TELLING ME YOU WANT TO SEE THE TURNING POINT EVEN IF THE RELATIONSHIP PROGRESS IS APPARENT WITHOUT IT? WHY WOULD YOU WANT THAT? I THOUGHT ONE CAN JUST SKIP EVERYTHING IN THE MIDDLE AND WATCH THE FIRST AND THE LAST EPISODE, THE CHANGE IS MOST APPARENT THEN AFTER ALL.

Oh, yes, there is a subject in the meaning of the sentence, I just meant that there wasn’t any word written which fulfilled that function.

Yes but a lot of people with retarded conceptualisation of Japanese are reading this thread, and I don't want to see them getting corrupted by misinterpreting you.

Reasonable, I’m going to be more careful.

Kind of glad djt isn't on Yea Forums. This shit show kind of addictive.

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>just learn Japanese lmao
where do you think people get their start in the first place you dumb fucks

I mean come on, you have people who think changing suffixal honorifics isn't the most fucking childish, cheese fest way of expressing a change in relationships. While obviously ignoring the idea of the more gradual shifting of the pro-nounal nouns.

But naturally if you translated it as the cheesefest it is, they'd get mad. I feel like translation for anime has really made a lot of people lose touch with what anime is a lot of the time, it softens a lot of the over the top ridiculousness.

>honorifics have no equivelent

BECAUSE MOST OF THE TIME THEY DON'T SERVE SEMANTIC PURPOSE. THAT'S LIKE SAYING THE EXCESS OF TURN TAKING "SOUNDS" JAPANESE PEOPLE MAKE IS MEANINGFUL. THIS IS WHY SO MANY BUSINESS MEETINGS GET FUCKED BECAUSE PEOPLE MISINTERPRET SOMEONE SAYING THEY'RE STILL LISTENING AS AGREEMENT.

This. It's a good way to pick up simple Japanese if you pay attention and the subs are decent. I don't even need subs for most SoL shows anymore.

>WOAH HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO KNOW YUYA CHANGED PERSONALITY IF THE TRANSLATOR DOESN'T USE BOKU/ORE WITH A TL NOTICE WHENEVER YUYA SPEAKS IN FIRST PERSON???

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>HAHA MEXICANS DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT GOKU WAS BEING RUDE TO ZENO BECAUSE THEIR TRANSLATIONS DIDN'T LEAVE THE "-SAMA" AND "-CHAN" IN THE DIALOGUE

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Level 0: know nothing
Level 1: know stock phrases and have had enough exposure to a narrow cross section of their use to think they know hidden Japanese cultural nuance and demand literal translations so they don't lose their untranslatable cultural artifacts
Level 2: actually speak the language and start to realize that untranslatable Japanese nuance has an almost perfect equivalent in English if you actually go sentence by sentence instead of word for word

I see this type of blind cultural worship a lot in second gen immigrants too. (Opinions on panda express between first and second gen chinks for example)

Is it wrong to want every subtlety not immediately apparent to someone not fluent in Japanese represented in the subtitle translation?

> honorifics need to be kept
Objectively wrong. You can already hear them. Why do you need them to be written?

>implicitly
YES YOU GOT IT THAT WAS THE POINT.

>points just ignored again
>a red herring with pronouns introduced instead
Heh, based retard is keeping at it.

Whoa, you don't need to spam me. I have anyway no problem understanding that you're mad.

>untranslatable Japanese nuance has an almost perfect equivalent in English if you actually go sentence by sentence instead of word for word
Sure, but then you lose the Japanese flavour of it. The phrases may mean the same things, but the etymologies are different.

>The absolute state of English localization
If anything there's more reason than ever to learn Japanese proper than even 5-10 years ago. Especially in vidya most "subtitles" are just dubtitles these days and script/characterization changes are overdone to the point where they barely resemble the originals if at all. Translators and Localization teams just feel like college/uni grads with bloated egos over their language/translation degrees.

Attached: 1550215171586.jpg (912x1768, 281K)

imagine a Kodansha executive replying to inform him he’s blacklisted for intentionally damaging the salability of the product.

To avoid disgusting rewrites in case the dialogue references them.

And then you have other absolutely bizarre stuff

Attached: 1540796833757.png (1920x1080, 1.74M)

I spotted an issue in the first line of this. People don't understand that adding that ne to the end softens up the speech. So the "rough translation" just eliminates that nuance entirely. A nuance which the left actually kept.

(Reference: see Japanese moms throwing out unnecessary ne with their kids all the time)

>localization teams literally create work for themselves to earn paychecks

>doing rewrites like that when the game has an option to display both languages at once
Holy fuck.

Does this happen frequently? How does something like this even get okayed.

Well if that were the case I could understand my sleep paralysis demons.

Well baited

Attached: 1561854366237.gif (230x270, 60K)

The good thing about translator notes is that they help you to understand the joke/reference and then you don't have to be clueless the next 9000 times it's made. Imagine that, actually learning something from my Chinese cartoons whoda thunk.

This thread’s a little...

Cause the audience that gobbles up "localization" doesn't know any different nor cares.

this is all i want
is it really so much to ask for

Attached: Screenshot_1.jpg (651x215, 27K)

Yes, 0% rewrites is not possible by definition.

I wouldn't give a fuck about the font as long as it's readable, but otherwise looks good.

>Character’s name isn’t subbed in kanji

>subs are not entirely in Japanese

>How does something like this even get okayed.
It's the other say around. Translators are requested to change stuff by the whoever is in charge of the project.

That was a particularly bad case of localization. But then there is stuff like Animal Crossing, where the localization work is wonderful and everything makes perfect sense, even though it keeps very little from the original dialogue.

if they start subbing in jp all of these issues would go away

>Subs arent kana, kanji, furigana,romanji and English layered over eachother

You can already get jp subs, they're even the only actually useful thing you can do if you wanna try and learn JP from anime.

>not using Chinese subs to learn two languages at the same time
Shiggy diggy.
>engrish everywhere
It would be like going back to 90s fansubs.

> how to translate itakadakimasu
thank you for the food

> how not to translate itadakimasu
THROUGH THE DARK LORD, AMEN (gabriel dropout)
IT'S CHERRY POPPIN TIME (mahou shoujo site)
thanks for the memes crunchy, very funny

I don't want to give you a 1 for 1 "aid to understanding Japanese", I've seen retards in threads arguing plot points based on the word choice and nuances of the fucking translated text with no one calling them out. I don't want to see what retarded bullshit you'll come up with if you had original text with none of the context.

Getting them is a pain for most series.

>subbing in jp
When I still cared about that there still was that Chinese Kamigami fansub group that released anime with chinese and japanese subs. Not sure if they're still around or if their torrents are available still.

>not using Chinese subs to learn two languages at the same time
>implying I don't know Japanese
I'm listening Spanish dubs with Chinese subs, to learn both languages at the same time. Get on my level.

Reminder none of the people complaining in this thread would even know if you made shit up. Remember mahou shoujo ikusei keikaku LN translations?

the hard part about translation is that there is a difficult balance between literal translation and capturing the feeling of what the speaker is trying to convey

there is however the point to consider that nobody calls theyself by they first name in English and if you translated it like that people would be all up like what this a Seinfeld episode fuck outta here with that

Nobody right in their mind does that in Japan either.

>when you're playing vidya and you think to yourself that they subbed the eng dub and not the jp dub
>every time someone says something short and sweet like 'hai' and it turns into a full 10+ english word sentence

Attached: 1464664942937.jpg (1063x276, 127K)

yeah. but I believe we're talking mainly about the difference between "thanks for the meal" and "rub dub thanks for the grub" here.

You guys haven't met ? There's enough people who do it in English for taking in third person to be a known thing.

>Especially in vidya most "subtitles" are just dubtitles these days
I hate this shit.
Pic related. Nero says "Last check!" in English and the "translation" says "This is a great honor!"

Attached: Screenshot_20190822-114726_Fate_GO.jpg (1920x1200, 1.01M)

>They might translate English porn Comics
Let's face it, user. The english porn comics suck most of the time, unless it's a kind of western doujinshi, or Melkor Mancin, most of the time they're flat out retarded.
I remember a few years ago I was browsing Sadpanda and there was a cowgirl with literal dildo batons made of wood

I fucking hate when they translate colloquialisms into something that doesn't fit the character at all

>grade A example of ironic weeb localization dicksucker
The character(s) are explicitly Japanese you dimwit.

>Nero says "Last check!" in English and the "translation" says "This is a great honor!"
I almost never see them do it properly, is it some autistic translator inside joke?

Can't comment on how it applies in that, but there are plenty of times when the Japanese dialogue uses an English word or term in a way that actual English speakers never do, so English subtitles not matching English in the dialogue doesn't automatically mean the translator's being an idiot.

Fuck off you autistic newfaggot monkey.

yo man I hate localization too and I am always complaining about people doing it wrong on translation threads but some conversations are fucking weird and confusing if you don’t give a shit about Japanese culture and just want to play a video game with titties
am I wronf

not him, but I believe replacing wasei-eigo with something that conveys the same meaning is alright. But "last check" is not wasei and I don't see it could be reasonably translated as "great honor", so...

This. "ビッチ" is a Japanese word that doesn't mean "Bitch" and "Sushi" is an English word that doesn't mean "すし", linguistically speaking.

I don't know about other shit, but the FGO localization team has openly bragged about how much they've changed. They genuinely consider themselves writers and at con panels and during streams they've said shit like "When I was writing this scene" or "When I was coming up with lines for this character."
They've also talked about upcoming content and for Shimosa specifically, they talked about how they didn't understand a lot of the cultural and religious references and have been having a tough time figuring out what to change them to. One of them shows up to FGO panels and streams while wearing Overwatch shirts and unironically calls himself Jesus. It's so astoundingly bad.

>everyone*
>TL note: everyone means americans

>if you don’t give a shit about Japanese culture and just want to play a video game with titties
>am I wrong
Yes.

i knew FGO translation was bad but that's ridiculous

Attached: 1536923234208.png (642x642, 644K)

You made up most of that. But conveying personality in dialogue literally requires you to "come up with lines" that match the skopos of the line and the attitude.

You brainlet.

Elaborate. I mean ビッチ would certainly not be used to say "female dog", but as an insult it's pretty close to the english word, no? Don't really see the problem with sushi either.

Learn the manners you uncultured pleb.

Eat your hamburgers, Apollo.

I made up none of it.
twitch.tv/aniplexusa/clip/FineSpoopyRavenCharlietheUnicorn

>Elaborate. I mean ビッチ would certainly not be used to say "female dog", but as an insult it's pretty close to the english word, no?
No. In English, its meaning is "unpleasant woman", but in Japanese it's "slut".

Loanwords are words of the language they're used in, not the original. ビッチ is closer to "slut" than "bitch". There's a necessary implication of promiscuity that isn't present in "bitch". You would not call an uptight boss a "ビッチ". Americans would include rolls as "sushi" but calling them "すし" with no prefix would confuse any Japanese. The reason liberal translations exist is so I don't have to explain this to you every half a page. Imagine if someone wanted literal translations and had character relationships fucked up because one of them called another a "ビッチ".

Literal translations suck ass, fuck off cartel shill

Well now that I think of it a bit, I realize that ビッチ refers normally to just slutty girls, even though the first thing I remembered was how a character in C3 was using it just as a generic insult.

Survey: do you think Phoenix Wright is an example of good localization?

so Tyrone MacDeesius in Detroit and Miguel Beanerandoz de Jesús Arroyo in Little Havana and Mahmoud Ali al-Yussef in London should all sit down seiza style with a bowl of maccha and plate of colorful wagashi when they turn on their PS4 to play Magical Witch Little Girl Cock Driller Part IV because the game starts with a ten-part lesson in etiquette when addressing high school upperclassmen and a heavily footnoted exchange of puns regarding improper use of an ikebana kenzan?
most people just want to play video games man

The real problem with this conversation and why it keeps popping up is that there are a shitton of underaged weebs out there that don't understand that Japan is a real place, and they have their own cringe-worthy slang just like every other real place. So they see a meme, then they get their panties in a bunch because they think they just got "4kids" when really they're just looking at translated lingo.

Yes, they should. And you should leave.

fuck off

>In theatre for Tenki no Ko
>fullhouse
>Subs were nice simple, leaning on the literal end
>English subs even explicitly used "sempai"
>everyone understood, got the joke and had a good chuckle
This shit isn't alien. People will understand and catch on if you don't sell them short. Localization as it stands is a fucking plague.

The scene that I immediately thought of was the soccer mom #happening scene in amaburi. Japan has an even stronger Twitter culture and it was completely in character for who the dialogue was from. That translation is completely justified.

>Onee-sama is slang

How is manga untranslated? It is not always used to refer to what you think it is and sometimes must be translated as comic book line with Joseph reading Superman in Jojo

>Americans would include rolls as "sushi" but calling them "すし" with no prefix would confuse any Japanese.
Ok, I see your point with makizushi. But still there are times when sushi means すし and ビッチ means just Bitch. I think I could've maybe understood your point from the beginning, if you said "these words don't ALWAYS mean that".

>Characters are Japanese
>Character mentions certain behaviour is childish for their age
>maybe it's a common childish behaviour in Japan
It really isn't hard to connect the dots lad. How rock hard rooted in your local "culture" and "sensibilities" to be 101% unable to engage in something outside your common experience.

>192442009
>Itadakimasu: thanks for the food
>gochisousama deshita: ???

For names and the way most characters speak, yes.
For actually making the game set outside Japan, no.

it’s not the sushi rolls that confuse Japanese so much as the big fucking crazy pepper mayonnaise flavor dragon sculptures that sushi places in Hawaii serve.
sushi is basically referring to the vinegared rice and is served in many different form factors
巻き寿司 and 稲荷寿司 are often more common than 握り寿司 anyway
on the other hand if somebody went to a sushi place in the USA and got served ちらし寿司 they probably wouldn’t come back

Yes, there are overlapping meanings sometimes, but that doesn't make the two equivalent. It also doesn't make "ビッチ" not a Japanese word.

no i won’t
although I am taking the devils advocate position I have probably been a anime person long before you

>gochisousama deshita: ???
well, the (liberally) literal translation is "k dis shit was tasty" actually.

("I have been someone who had been treated to something good" is the literal literal translation).

Yeah but you wouldn't refer to 巻きずし as
すし .

no matter what you do in life you will never please everyone.

I'm saying that if you said
"ビッチ is not equivalent to Bitch" instead of
"ビッチ doesn't mean Bitch"
then I would probably have had no problem with understanding it.

>It also doesn't make "ビッチ" not a Japanese word.
Ok, I have not argued with that.

Yeah, fair.

I think I have heard Japanese people refer to 巻き寿司 as just “sushi”.
I can’t recall every conversation I’ve ever had though and I don’t really pay attention to things anyway

Localization and translation are mutually interchangeable synonyms. Only retards who don't know what translation is think they're different.

some Japanese people I know also refer to video animation as “manga”
I don’t know how widespread that is though

Fuck off. Localization is the only way humans can make sense of ching chang chong speak.

Localization is when you use the original text as nothing but a guide line for your writing master piece

This would have been correct a decade a go maybe

Just learn Japanese, it's the only way you'll be able to get the true original experience.

Was it in an English sentence? If so that just further proves my point.

No, it's still correct today, even though retards are trying to change the meaning of "translation" into "take a dictionary and swap each word for the corresponding word".

Yea Forums EOP beggars don't deserve TLs: the thread

ITT: Stupid EOPs and ESLs who want dry literal garbage.

Clearly only English as a third language or later are acceptable.

EFL while knowing multiple other languages is the master race

Just learn Japanese.

I know three but English was second, am I still a filthy ESL?

Failed author who thinks his writing spices up the original.

By definition yes, you dirty ESL, you

Oh yes, that's the stuff. Tell me how my immersion in north American culture has led to an inability to accept cultural experiences that aren't my own harder, daddy.

Nice boogeyman. Those fags are in industry but don't exist amongst the fan community.

No, it would have been a Japanese sentence since most people I know don’t speak English

English is the language spoken by most of literal niggers. Slavic languages are pure in this regard, the true white man's first languages of choice.

>a third language
That doesn't mean anything. "First language" doesn't mean the number 1 language you ever learned to speak, it means that you were born in a country that speaks that language. For example, someone born in Switzerland might have 4 first languages. Likewise, "second language" means a language that you learned after moving to a country that speaks that language, and the term for languages that you learn from textbooks is "foreign language".

Bix Noodish isn't English

>slavs
>white
Choose one. I pick slavs

馬鹿！馬鹿！外人共は馬鹿！死ね！

>Characters make a series of unintelligible grunts
>English words come out on the bottom
What the fuck are those subbers on?

In this context dubs win

Yo, dat shit be lit as fuck nigga. now dis homie gonna put 4 languages in his muhfuggin resoomay. Bix nood muhfugga!

Have you considered that maybe those grunts are unintelligible because you don't speak the language?

Localization sucks ass, sometimes it can even create plotholes or completely change character's personality given the localization team is dumb enough.

Yeah, that was the joke

t. literal translator lighten tf up

I remember when translation notes were still a thing. I liked reading those, especially about obscure Japanese cultural references. Sadly, fansubbers got really lazy and went for localization instead of just translating material.

I had to take classes but even that was not enough because it lacked basic kanji. Most of Yea Forums are probably too busy to get into a class like I did.

>Most of Yea Forums are probably too busy
[Laughs]

Translation notes were the lazy thing to do. Translating takes effort, explaining what happens in the original doesn't (and it also sucks and is not supposed to be a part of the experience).

I hate when the subtitles don't match the dialogue.

Eg

>user-kun, baka!

Should be

>user-kun, you're an idiot!

not

You're a real loser idiot, Mr user

Because you can't. You can't understand the rules, for example, for using different particles just by watching. Idiots who try will get "watashi wa ringo wa tabemasu" instead of "o tabemasu."

>went for localization instead of just translating material.
see If you would not call something a localization, it isn't a translation either.

>not instantly recognizing nipspeak through the subs

Attached: 1565857563926.jpg (331x588, 27K)

>Because people with room temp IQs can't.

Fixed

0i have a shit head for symbols and it doesn't seem worth learning to speak a language I will never be able to read

Nah, translations would keep Shogi as Shogi. Whereas localization would change that to Chess, when the two are entirely different. Remember jelly doughnuts?

I hate that kimetsu no yaiba translates oni as demon
It's not the same fucking thing.

If you're in a group where people don't know each other, you would not believe how much of a pain in the ass arguing how to adapt puns can be, so it's not fair to call it laziness. I agree that TNs are better though.

Attached: incantation.jpg (1280x720, 78K)

>Nah, translations would keep Shogi as Shogi. Whereas localization would change that to Chess

That's not true. A translation (which continues to be the exact same thing as a localization) might translate Shogi as Shogi, Chess, or Japanese chess depending on the context and the likely target audience.

They should just leave it as oni for EOP to Google up.

Not him, but I'd definitely like to read about what makes that particular Japanese pun funny instead of just replacing it by some dumb American joke. I'd like to learn about different Japanese foods rather than watch the characters call everything burger and fries... I'm blowing things out of proportions here, but the point is that trying to translate everything almost always results in dumbing down the original content.

>might translate Shogi as Shogi, Chess, or Japanese chess depending on the context and the likely target audience
Nah, and changing it to Chess or Japanese Chess is pretty bad. It removes the Japanese culture in the context. Everyone who are into weeb culture do it because they like the Japanese-ness of it.

for some reason Japanese people themselves also tend to translate oni as demon, even though it doesn’t really fit

You guys sure complain a lot despite not knowing the language you demand translations for.

now that I think about it, it might have to do with the popular image of oni torturing wicked people in hell

Because there are no onis in the west. But see how the Japanese call western demons by their name and not just call them oni, example is "Dullahan". That's how western translation should have been.

It's because they do not understand the western concept of a demon in the same way most of people from the west don't understand the Japanese one. It works both ways.

Because we can. That's how free speech and the free market thrives: refining a product to fit the needs of the consumers.

Oni sometimes gets used as a descriptor instead of the actual traditional oni creature, in which case it's actually pretty close to demon.

>I just want you to translate it into basic, no frills english so I can understand what they are saying
Google translate is right over there if you want a jumbled mess that sounds like it came out of the mouth of a robot instead of a fluent English speaker. That's the goal of a translation; to make it sound like it was written by someone native to the language. Dumbasses keep thinking localization can only mean 4kids tier jelly donuts, but a touch of localization is necessary to rewrite the sentence structure of Japanese to English, or when language more flowery than a basic "Hello how are you" comes into play. To completely avoid localization and be as literal as possible makes you a shit translator, just like over-localization makes you a shit translator.

>implying ths change matters in a manga like adamasu
Honestly the translation was a huge part of the fun in this trainwreck of a manga

Localization is when you change "I love you" to RAWR RAWR RAWR. Yes, it is 4kids tier.

That's not all localization is. It's also changing the order of the sentence to make more sense in English.

>Yea Forumstard
should have known

>1180 Yen
>sub say $11.8

The original audience doesn't watch the show to learn about foreign foods, they watch it to enjoy the show. The translator's job is to convey that experience. If you learn about Japanese foods in the process, that's cool, but not so much if it distracts from what the author was actually trying to accomplish with their work of art.

>The translator's job is to convey that experience.
They can convey that experience by explaining what the foods are so that they aren't "foreign" to the viewer anymore.

Attached: file.png (669x393, 27K)

Japanese people who watch that show don't do it because they like the Japanese-ness of it, they watch the show because they like the actual show.

Sure, and it's especially a good idea if you can make the characters explain it to the viewer. Translator's notes are an absolute last resort though.

>Japanese people who watch that show don't do it because they like the Japanese-ness of it
There are probably a couple of them who do

It only works if the consumers aren't retards

That's because they're already Japanese.

Yes, language is a part of culture and is specific to certain locales.

Do you have to validate every sentence you see through another person even though you can understand the meaning?

Using boogeymen doesn't make my statement less true.

Yes, and the translators' job is to convey equivalency of experience. You should feel the same thing as the original audience felt. The original audience isn't watching the show to learn Japanese culture, so that shouldn't be part of your experience either.

Grammars are not specific to certain locales at all.

Okay, but I will never be the original audience, so I either have to choose to accept it being dumbed down and its cultural origin stripped and replaced, watching Japanese characters behave like typical Americans which just doesn't make any sense given the setting and context. Or, I can choose to learn a couple of new pieces information, like the other user already said, that will allow me to enjoy it in the same way as the original audience.

>tadaima
just now
>okaerinasai
come back

Nah, Shogi is Shogi and onigiri is onigiri. I don't want it to be chess or jelly doughnuts because those are a different experience.

They're specific to a certain culture. We're localizing it to generic American influenced western culture.

that rawr garbage is localization, i never implied otherwise. doesn't change the fact that you're a giga retard

>I can choose to learn a couple of new pieces information, like the other user already said, that will allow me to enjoy it in the same way as the original audience.

Sure, if a foreign language and a comprehensive understanding of a foreign culture are a couple of new pieces of information to you.

If the translation is good, it won't even get dumbed down in the process. The reason why CR etc. are dumbed down is probably because they hire less than professional translators and make them work on overly strict schedules.

>okaerinasai
you mean "respectfully please, come back".

>They're specific to a certain culture.
What culture does Ilaksh belong to?
>We're localizing it to generic American influenced western culture.
I'm from the UK, so we're not exactly the same.

They are (or can be) roughly the same experience as Shogi and onigiri are to the Japanese audience.

Except -nasai is not as polite as that

But the "o" is.

No it isn't. Japan doesn't call jelly doughnuts onigiri.
Localizers are just being lazy, or they just want to insert funny memes no one asked for.

Yeah, I agree. That type of stuff you just have to know, there's no way to have equivalency.

Kaeri is also not just a generic "return"

That's why TL notes are necessary.
Or you can just leave it to them to Google. Not like weebs these days are ignorant of technology.

Great, do you want a UK specific version of the scanlation?

>Localizers are just being lazy
People are lazy for actually doing their jobs properly as opposed to leaving it only half-done? This is the dumbest meme ever.

Nobody cares what Japan calls jelly doughnuts. If it's relevant to the context that it's a piece of food but it isn't at all relevant what type of food it is, jelly doughnuts can be a valid translation of onigiri. Most likely, this scenario would come up in a poem. Usually it would be more reasonable to just call it a rice ball.

"Im looking for a Bento Box, it cant be pinku (thats japanese for pink) or any girl color. It has to be of 2 or more kotoba (thats japanese for 2 compartments) and has be be chibi (small) sized. And has to be really kawaii (cute). Also It has to be about 10-20 bux. And you have to post pics of it first (i want to make shure it's kawaii (cute)). And it would be nice if it came with matching chopstick holder (WITH chopsticks). OH! and it CANNOT have any cartoon pictures, or be made out of plastic. It has to be made of ceramic, or something like that. Also it would be nice if it was made in japan. and not in china or corea (korea) or whatever. I have found a Bento Box similar to the one im describing in e-bay, but it was 1 kotoba, and i dont want my gohan (rice) to touch my other things (it can get wet and i would not like that, plus 2 compartments looks more kawaii)"
>a dialogue like this would be acceptable according to Yea Forumsutists because "muh wapanese is cool"
Accept it, anons. You're just asking for broken English and barely understandable sentences because you think it sounds "cool."
In reality you look like a Mexican shoehorning spanish words every other sentence.

What about wasei-eigo and loan words? Where is the line drawn? After seeing a fit Yea Forums threw over "sutairu" and "bitch" in a thread a few years ago, I doubt the average Yea Forumsnon actually knows what they want from fansubs.

>A direct translation would likely be unintelligible in a lot of cases, especially in longer and more complicated sentences.
I'm surprised people still push this bullshit memecartel defense. Sentence structure is always changed in translation. That's entirely different than localization.
Localization would be
>Character says: "I like them"
>localization: "I'm jonesing so hard for them."

>Character says "I have an idea"
>Localization "I just had a brainwave"

Attached: crunchyroll.jpg (848x958, 209K)

Like, I agree on stuff like that but I also do support localization. It's just that people refuse to admit changing sentence structures is also localization.

>After seeing a fit Yea Forums threw over "sutairu" and "bitch" in a thread a few years ago, I doubt the average Yea Forumsnon actually knows what they want from fansubs.
That's the language's fault not anons. Blame dumb japs for making those words completely different from what they actually mean.

>jelly doughnuts can be a valid translation of onigiri.
>t.4kids translator
No it isn't, and did you just shrug off the Japanese opinion? The one whose culture we are trying to appropriate?

That's not localization, that's bad localization. Localization means the exact same thing as translation.

If the translation is good, I don't mind. If the translators manage to convey the core meaning of a difficult sentence without changing things too much, I applaud them. I was mostly talking about when localization replaces cultures. I.e. "remember the Tokyo subway sarin attack" => "remember the 9/11". Also when the localization team has too much freedom and creates plotholes or changes characters' personality.

>That's not X, that's bad X.

I'm pretty sure neither the average scanlator nor average user know what sutairu actually means.

No, I don't need one because the underlying grammar isn't locale-specific, even if things like "-ization" vs "-isation" are

>After seeing a fit Yea Forums threw over "sutairu" and "bitch" in a thread a few years ago,
nani? What else could style and bitch mean?

>that image
This is so disgusting, I hope the localizer dies.

The point is that you think localization means something different than translation. It doesn't, the two words mean the same thing. Just because a translation is bad doesn't mean it's no longer a translation.

autism

No, translation is just replacing language, localization is fitting the work into a different culture. "Hello, I'm from Tokyo" is translation "Yo wassup bitch?! I'm from New York" is localization.

>using the A word
Also, the Japanese don't know shit about cross cultural barriers. Some of the mandated localization choices from studios/author are pants on head retarded and don't convey the original intent at all even though they like to pretend it does.

Style and bitch mean certain things. スタイル
and ビッチ are Japanese words than mean something else, even though they were originally imported as loanwords.

We've devolved into arguing semantics even though you both agree.

Translation and localization are fitting the work into a different culture. Replacing the language is neither, and we don't have people whose job is to do that because nobody ever needs that done.

Is the Esperanto translation of the Bible a localization?

>trying to play semantics
Translation can be neutral. You're merely changing the sentence structure to fit the english language. That's not localization retard.
Localization is changing it to fit your culture. Like turning onii-san or last name into "(first name)". Or using local terms or sayings to replace japanese ones.

If you can directly translate it, just do it. If you can't, leave it be. Pinku can be translated as pink. Bento boxes can't because the west doesn't have a "lunch box" culture anymore.

>Localization is changing it to fit your culture. Like turning onii-san or last name into "(first name)". Or using local terms or sayings to replace japanese ones.
True, and this is what the word "translation" also means.

>I'm just going to continue playing retarded and pretending I can't see the difference
Ok

Translation studies is a field of science, we have established terminology. It doesn't make me a retard if you aren't familiar with it.

Nah, the guy who is trying to make it as if translation = localization is trying to pull the same tactic as that guy who is trying to make lolicon = pedophilia, trying to catch anons off guard and try to make them look like hypocrites.

>The point is that you think localization means something different than translation. It doesn't
The point is that we can even agree on that and you can piss off back to pleddit, and the rest of us can invent another word to describe the tangible difference in translation outcomes as outlined in posts such as and finally constructively discuss it, without being distracted by your autism.

>Anime: meaningless Buddhist chanting
>Hallelujah, Amen
Like just type in *Buddhist chanting*. Why rewrite the story making them Christian

I'm talking about the two or three autists that keep saying TL groups shouldn't translate shit like "itadakimasu" and leave a bunch of sentences in broken English.

Indeed
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation_studies#Localization

Attached: file.png (1683x121, 24K)

No thanks, reddit is full of weebs who can't handle any English language in their translations.

No, but the Hawaiian Pidgin version is
>14 “You know, long time ago inside da boonies, Moses wen put one snake on top one stick so everybody can see um an come good. Da same ting gotta happen to me, da Guy Dass Fo Real. Dey goin put me on top one cross, 15 so dat everybody who stay trus me, can get da real kine life dat stay to da max foeva.

>16 “God wen get so plenny love an aloha fo da peopo inside da world, dat he wen send me, his one an ony Boy, so dat everybody dat trus me no get cut off from God, but get da real kine life dat stay to da max foeva. 17 You know, God neva send me, his Boy, inside da world fo punish da peopo. He wen send me fo take da peopo outa da bad kine stuff dey doing. 18 Whoeva stay trus me, God no goin punish dem. But whoeva no trus me, garans God goin punish dem, cuz dey neva trus me, Godʼs ony Boy.

damn...hm...maybe call it...a bad translation...?

Whatever, even though people might not be familiar with your terminology, surely even you can see the difference between things we are talking about even though we adress them incorrectly. But I'm still not quite convinced. A recent example from a game I played:
Chigaimasu! replaced with "Are you nuts?". How can you consider this to be a translation if the meaning is completely different. The only thing that connects these sentences is that you would probably say them both in the same kind of situation. The "localization" changed the meaning to better fit what an American character would say.

There's no direct translation to itadakimasu so you can just leave it be. But if you're audience are not weebs (rarely) then maybe it is fine because normlafags are subhumans anyway and doesn't deserve the good stuff.

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>The only thing that connects these sentences is that you would probably say them both in the same kind of situation.
Yes, which is what a translation is supposed to do. Nobody needs an English text full of expressions that English-speaking people wouldn't use in those situations.

Wiki disagreees with you
Localization is more than just translating

Depending on context, that could be completely justifiable.

This.

>This is the guy claiming localization and translation are the same. Defends turning a simple translatable line that can be normally said in English into something with a different meaning.

>maybe we should lump together under the same "bad" label a translation, where the translator didn't understand a first thing about japanese, and a translation, where he thought he is fucking funny or that the viewers are too stupid to understand it if he says bento instead of burgers.
....hmm... How about... no?

No one wants Americanized/Westernized anime, you know?

Attached: images.jpg (497x296, 26K)

Well, but I don't want to listen to some random translator's idea of what an American would say at that moment. When the character is talking about A, I wan't to know he is talking about A (expressed in English language of course) and not B, because that's what American character would talk about in the same context.

It makes a character that usually seems very polite accuse his commander of being "nuts" instead of just telling her she is wrong.

>Wiki disagreees with you
Eh, I guess it does, but the definition for localization that it proposes is not the same as the one everyone here is using. What Yea Forums calls localization is just translation.

This.

Defends? No, I advocate for it.

Then that's a mistake.

look at the file names, it's the same retard

Please die in a shitty ball of RAWRs and Jelly doughnuts.

>What Yea Forums calls localization is just translation.
>Gets BTFO. Doubles down on his denial when the image literally explains it.

Go back to shitposting on nyaa herkz

Well, I guess. But the mistake did stem from the fact that the translator tried to make that character sound more cool and American instead of being true to his polite Japanese character. That's what I would call "localization".

Wrong kind of effort. Making a rewrite takes effort but clearly if someone biases against doing it then it's an effort they are preferentially biased toward doing, even though it's wrong. It's like saying someone isn't lazy because they read difficult books all the time instead of working.

The mistake most likely stemmed from the fact that the translator focused on getting his work done before the deadline instead of making sure he got everything right. Trying to make the character sound more cool is obviously wrong, but making the character sound American is necessary.

>localization
Yeah, I'll just transliteration syllable-for-syllable every single word into *your* language, whatever it may be. Fuck grammar, spelling, phrasing, meaning or intent, amirite? You know Japanese!

The difference is that you didn't get an university education so that you could read difficult books and you didn't get hired to read difficult books, whereas translating is what translators have a degree in and are getting paid for (well, except CR translators might not have those degrees but that's still what they're getting paid for even if they suck at it).

Telling your commanding officer that they're wrong without any round about implications to it already makes it rude. This is why people who "learned" Japanese from watching anime shouldn't translate.

...

Well at least you dropped all pretense of not just being a shitposter

>Okay lunch break time
>Let's eat!

>Hey bro I got a spare ticket to the new Nanoha movie what do you think?
>Let's eat!

>W-we can't do this, I'm a boy and your best friend!
>Let's eat!

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>trying this hard
Try redirect that energy towards learning moon

I know moon and agree with him. Where's your god now?

found the EOP

How is it possible to not know what localization means in the context of these threads? How new are you?

>what is context
>words can't be translated differently depending on context
Based retard.

Kristen was right.

>this entire years-long fiasco with localizers is because of some fags' buyer's remorse for their worthless liberal arts degree
Jesus fucking christ.
>paid for
Okay fess up, who is paying you retards to shill your garbage product on Yea Forums nonstop?

>Where's your god now?
Right here *defecates all over your face*

If the lives are at stake, there isn't time for roundabout implications, but there definitely is no need to go out of your way to be rude.

extremely high quality post

your post = filled with assumptions and chuunishit
my post = healthy shit

>defecates
Can't even say "shits" like a normal, non-transsexual person.

>American is necessary
No it isn't. Anime characters are Japanese unless stated otherwise. Making them sound like Americunts is a turn off and makes anime no different to western cartoons like Family Guy.

*empties his bowels*

checked

>your
lel. Neither of the two who replied to your obvious shitpost was me.

TL notes should be the standard. Everything in anime takes place in japan, and it's literary standard for things in foreign cultures (including fictional) to include explanations for understanding those cultures. There's fucking fictional languages. Anyone that claims fundamentally untranslatable things like titles (including familial titles) or highly specific japanese concepts shouldn't be taken as loanwords is a fucking retard with the literary level of a child trying to make 4kids-grade "translation". There's no way to accurately convey the difference between "onii-sama", "aniki", and "onii-chan".

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fucken checked lmfao