How do I cope with the fact that true, unconditional love does not exist in real life...

>and really the concept of love in general is something devised by the minds of incels
I'd agree for that specific use of love, but love itself it also pretty wide.

You like Senjougahara, don't you?

How do you cope? Stay away from real life romantic relationships and live vicariously through anime.

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Why is "unconditional love" so often touted as some kind of ideal?

It seems like a super unhealthy and biased thing were a man to love me unconditionally no matter what I did — that's blind unreasonable infatuation.

Real unconditional love does/can exist but
1. a relationship doesn't work only with feelings like love. There are always rules and shit like trust and compromises you have make.
2. Unconditional love doesn't mean he/she will love you forever.

But if you did whatever you want then you wouldn't be you, right ?

Imagine that two people are in a relationship and the girl suffers acid burns all over her face. She will look gross and in most cases the man leaving is only a matter of time.

>Unconditional love doesn't mean he/she will love you forever

Then what's the point lol. If love isn't forever then what is? I'm sorry this is sending me into some deep existential crisis

it is real. lasting love is much less soppy than most people expect. it is at its core a series of decisions made beforehand- whatever happens on the future, you will choose what's best for sticking with the other. that's the definition of the greek agápe, love that attaches itself to something for better or worse until the follow through is complete. it is not unkind, but it is shown in behaviors such as discipline & other actions that sentimentality may call unloving or cool. agape is the principled devotion in a relationship that someone decides will last until the end.
philía, the greek for affection love, can be romantic, familial, or fleeting. it is the source of fuzzy, happy, silly flirting in relationships. it is fun, & necessary for a healthy couple. a relationship founded only on this likely will not last, however. it is the decoration, not the foundation.
e'ros is sexual attraction. powerful first motivation to get to know someone. not the basis of a good relationship. quick & dirty emotion, & should not be the primary motivation for any big decisions.
you open yourself to possible pain by accepting love. they could die. they could cheat. when those things happen, emotions change. you can try to rebuild from there.
but until then, going "it seems dumb and naive to trust someone wholeheartedly idk if it's wise what if something, like, idk, HAPPENS or something what if i stabbed them that's so dumb???" is an incorrect interpretation & shows you expect the worst of people & yourself. it's the best possible way to make sure that you don't put enough of yourself in the relationship to give it the best shot at working or to feel how comfy it can be.
"lol what if thing change bet you didn't think of that huh gotcha"
unconditional love is reference to the current state of things- "i will love THIS you forever."
it carries another statement- "if things change, i will work with them as much as possible instead of just dropping you."

The fact you got this worked up because of it shows how unimportant it was for you. Read books.

Just rewatched Nekomonogatari Kuro the other day, and it really brought the love question into retrospect.

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> I will love this you

Pretty shallow if the 'you' is defined by physical appearance. It doesn't feel like true love if physical appearance is involved to such an extent that any damage to it and off goes the "true love"

Sorry bro, just deal with the pain.

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i have known many couples who have stayed together through debilitating illness, physical deformity, loss of agency, cheating (with repentance), & other vast changes to the dynamic. they gain comfort & support from each other. losing an arm or beauty doesn't change that. i don't think all people are as shallow as you believe.
i've also known dozens of couples who dumped each other for the dumbest reasons imaginable, jesus some people will just spin a wheel to pick stuff to ruin their relationship & eventually life over
they weren't ready to commit & they were too dumb to admit it

Imagine you could have a relationship with someone where you can be happy just by being together. It's you two against the world and nothing else is as important as cuddling at night and making each other happy.

In the ideal, this would last forever but in the knock-off "real" version I would commit myself so much to the relationship that if it would end, I'd kms.
It might not be "healthy" IRL but I think a love where you can't live without one another is very romantic.

Saying that true love cannot exist here is a cope. The truth is that it does exist and you just haven't been chosen to experience it.

hey let's go out

>chosen
you carve that out of the rock with your own fingernails son
love is work, not a blessing
the blessing is the relationship you end up with when you both have put in an insane amount of grueling, tiring, bloodletting work
you have to go earn it- and then, share the reward with the other person that climbed that mountain with you.

Love yourself more instead.

I have nothing but appreciation for all those faithful couples. This thread is about the unpleasant viewpoint of how humans are just another organism and nothing more. There is no deeper meaning and things like love and emotions are just mechanisms evolved to keep us alive. Sorry for being edgy lol

I am 28 and never fell in love my whole life. Is this normal?

I'm 26 and I don't think I could love a woman. I could lust after them but I don't think I could be in a lasting relationship with one so I don't look for relationships anymore. I could have had a few way back in high school but I turned them down.

I should rather hate myself more instead.
If you can never achieve an ideal love and if you decided that that would be the only thing to make you happy, why even live?
The anime/manga/vn romance obsession can only keep you from breaking for so long.

If you never made an effort to know someone else more than simple acquaintances, then yes.

>If you can never achieve an ideal love and if you decided that that would be the only thing to make you happy, why even live?

Your ideal love, yes, nothing wrong with that, I resigned myself to never find someone that would fit my own ideal of true love but I choose to have something else to live for, like the prospect of humanity achieving "eternal" longevity so that it would make it possible for me to get a robo waifu in the future, as idiotic as that might sound.

It may be in the post-human-interaction world we are starting to live in

I have never loved and probably never will but I am not normal. Somewhat (intenionally) memed myself into being (functionally) asexual and not even really attracted to people IRL.

i have no problem with the reductionist argument but i think it defeats itself
>we are only designed to stay alive
>why do we wonder about the meaning of life then?
>that's another mechanism that has no "real" meaning
>then could you design another mechanism that feels more real?
reality is as real as it gets, babe. the fact that you can argue that these mechanisms are just mechanisms means they aren't. even if love & romance & hope just comes down to my brain coming up with a way to stay alive, i'll take it. we:
are the only living thing that has ever to out knowledge said hello to whatever is out there among the stars, and
want to stay alive. that's because our brain tells us to, which is because that is the priority of all life. saying that all our emotions are limited to that is like saying
>that meal only tastes good because your tongue is designed to make you prioritise foods rich in certain compounds
okay, and? tastes good
>exercise only feels good because of endorphins your brain uses to kill pain & reward you for stretching your limits
and? feels good
>love only feels good because your brain wanted to ensure as strong as possible pair bonding & family units
and, motherfucker? it FEELS GOOD, MAN.
love feels good. i don't care why. is that because my brain doesn't want me to see the wizard behind the curtain? possibly. still don't give a damn. to me, the reductionist argument doesn't work on why my burrito tastes good, & it doesn't work on why love feels good.

I think such technological advancements will never be achieved by humanity because we will either reset our civilization (with war, catastrophes) or the technology is itself impossible.

But I would love the uploading of consciousness and "dreaming" anything one could want or swapping into a different (female) artificial body.

> ideal love
There is no such thing as an ideal love. Relationships will have lots of fights and you have to work through it all and sometimes no matter what you do she will end up dumping you. Trust me I broke up with the woman who I thought was the love of my life and several of my friends have also went through nasty breakups.
> why even live
Cus there's still a lot of anime left to watch.

Been obsessed with yuri romance but have consumed most existing stuff that interests me that I know of (some more when I get better at Japanese) and am basically living with a daily yuri art IV-drip but I fear that I might get burned out with it in a few years (and anime in general, possibly).
At that point, and together with my constant defeatism about real relationships and my inability to love and accept myself, I think it'll break me.
Well that's something to look forward to at least.

This, imagine wanting unconditional love
That shit is just about the creepiest idea ever in my mind

Only a fucking idiot wouldn't want unconditional love.

Not op but Why you ask?

Asking someone else what the point of *your* life should be is never going to get you anywhere, at least not anywhere worthwhile.

You're basically asking the equivalent of what the point is if Christmas isn't real.

Why in the fuck would you want someone to love you unconditionally? Hypothetically let's say you commit some kind of really heinous crime, why would you still want your GF to love you? Isn't someone who would still love you no matter what you did sick in the head?

>Hypothetically let's say you commit some kind of really heinous crime, why would you still want your GF to love you?
Of course I want my true love to continue loving me infinitely even if I'll become a universe-destroyer. I'll do the same, by the way.

>Hypothetically let's say you commit some kind of really heinous crime, why would you still want your GF to love you?
Of course I would. That would be true love. Someone who would love you no matter what you did truly loves you, rather than loving some fleeting incorrect idea they have of you in you head.

Unconditional love is a stupid concept, you're just looking for security not an actual human relationship.
Spiritual love, like spiritual anything, is a semi-subjective idea that only exists in concept, but since when were all concepts lies? Money and goverenments are conceptual but they aren't any less lies because of it. You work towards the ideal of how they should function even if they never function properly.

Unconditional love, or loving you no matter how you change from your present state, is the same as saying how you are as a person isn't a component in the love in the first place.
It basically invalidates your value as an individual.

So basically the same kind of love between a dog and a master.

The only true unconditional love possible is a love for yourself.

Dogs are kinda dumb.

why even live

There's nothing wrong with slavery as long as the slave is happy, though.

>not an actual human relationship.
OP literally said that it does not exist as an actual human relationship. We are also on a board which is more interested in ideal than in the actual world.

Outside of magic you're never going to change completely into a different person, things are just going to be added aspects of your being

And if both people love each other unconditionally?

You should tip your fedora

Consume more ESCAPISM.

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Sorry, I phrased my point badly, it's less that people are interested in unconditional love because unconditional love is desirable in and of themselves and more that they are too afraid of the risks conditional love brings to the table.
ie the motives for unconditional love are ulterior ones.
Having aspects added to your being changes your being, doesn't it?

That's why you turn to religion for unconditional love. Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ loves all, even a loser like you.

Roasties detected.

>Why is "unconditional love" so often touted as some kind of ideal?
Honestly just look up the history of the word Agape especially through in church and theology it's enshrined as the highest form of love.

Isn't he basically a waifu, then?

It's almost as if happiness isn't the only goal of life.

Get a dog

I guess this is you

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More or less. Waifuism is (or can be made) structurally equivalent to "real" religions like Christianity or Buddhism or whatever. The reasons why people have a waifu and the reasons why people get into religions are very close anyway, if not exactly the same.

>only bad people commit crimes
That's your mind on objective morality. Letting your friend listen to the music you've bought technically is a crime since you're engaging in copyright infringement as you have no right to distribute it, freely or no and only bought it under a license of personal ownership. I guess that means you're not deserving of affection and love anymore.

I'd probably have an easier time getting behind it if Jesus was a cute girl honestly.
Huh i never thought about this before but the relationship between a straight woman and the idea of jesus must be pretty different from the relationship between a straight man and the idea of jesus. Especially with how conventionally attractive Jesus is in his depictions now.

>and in reality we are just animals looking to breed
How can you read this and take it at face value?

Tfw I will never have a shower of balloons ?

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And now you see why Mary has a fundamentally very important role in every non-protestant branch.
Those bunch just hate all kinds of fun.

Psycho the rapist here, unconditional love is a thing usually only parents can give and that only happens because of chemicals and cognitive structures that make it so that they cannot stop caring for their offspring as if it were themselves (And yes, you can resist this instict to the point you dont care for your kid but thats beside the point), but as it is stated even this type of love is out of a self interested because your biology and psychological aparatus is making you think your child is an extension of yourself.
Now the problem with idealized love is that it doesnt exist, i mean thats the point of ideals, they are perfect representations not really found in reality. But that doesnt mean that there is no love. You van definately love some vehemently and in a really passionate matter and it would still be real. A relationship stands on 2 fronts, anons. Both of those have to manage the relationship and its both sides' responsability to mantain that relationship. Full on communication, and that means talking about everything is a goood way of mantaining that.
I find the incel dummies that think they deserve unconditional love when I can assure you they are incapable of giving such a thing in the first place. (Because no one can)
>We are just animals looking to breed
We are mammals, dummy. We are social animals and look for more than just sex by nature. If you add the cognitive element humans have, we become a tad bit more complex.
There are a shit ton of reasons in the world to go full blackpill, love aint one of them. If your country's culture makes it hard, go looking on other countries.
>inb4 i dont wanna have a third worlder gf
Beggars cant be choosers

If you're not capable of it, why do you wish for it? That's like being sad about being unable to fly.

Jesus' love transcends sexuality, and if you relate to Him by wanting to fuck Him, you are not understanding His love to the necessary degree of ideality, basically depriving yourself of the most true love (hence being a straight woman is actually a handicap with respect to the relation to God, not an advantage). Though is correct, since as we all know, cute girls make everything better.

What I find a little terrifying is that somethings you think you have found 'It' because you're in a relationship with both, agape and philia and even eros. But at the end you actually never know. Anything can happen and one may outgrow the other.

Why would I prefer someone to love me conditionally opposed to unconditional love? If I am a self-interested egoistical person, then the latter is more convenient nd useful to me. If I am capable of love, then I'll be able to love them back and make us both happy. And if I pay back with same unconditional true love, then together we basically make a perfect being.
As you can see, in all cases I'll prefer unconditional love.

>then together we basically make a perfect being.
It's incredibly rare, but possible. However don't count on really meeting someone like that in your lifetime, a person that is ideal for you in every regard, starting with genetic composition and ending with cognitive processes. Those few lucky ones found it by chance.

Friendly reminder Mary got NTR'd hard by the holy ghost and is therefore not pure by waifu standards.

This.
The key to spiritual love is wanting to love more than wanting to be loved. This is also the hardest for many people that didn't experience much love in their life. Definitely the hardest for me.

That's not how those words work.
If anything Joseph got NTRd

I think that's an extreme case, user. Personally, I see unconditional love more as loving the other person through their ups and downs and making sure you're there for them to help them get up when they fall. Not still loving them if they one day wake up and decide they want to become a serial killer.

It is one of the top goals though.

It's hard for people who have always been loved, too. We're humans and self-centered by nature.

What do you think the "取られ" part means?

This problem is reducible to game theory and prisoner dilemma. Here "unconditional love" is cooperate and "use your lover" is defect. Now of course there are more choices, like answering to the unconditional love with just love, but still the comparison holds.

We should solve it the same way organized crime does it.

Love doesn't exist, its just the excuse people use for wanting to fuck each other. You don't ever see fat or ugly people get love otherwise I wouldn't be a 26 year old kissless virgin.

>animal looking to breed
The why are there so many faggots?

This. OP's example only works because we see the characters as attractive people. I'm sure OP only wants "unconditional love" from an attractive woman, which by definition makes it conditional.

For the same reason my dog keeps humping my leg.

That isn't true, unless all people with families and children are handsome and beautiful.

>tfw no mitsuha gf
it hurts

True love will discourage you from the harmful behaviour, but will also continue to love you in spite of it.

It is entirely possible that no one will ever fall in love with me and that I won't ever love with anyone, but I can't let that fact defeat me.
You can't control your feelings or those of others. Do things you enjoy and keep improving yourself. Might be that somewhere along the road you'll meet someone you care about and who cares about you. Might be that you won't. Either way, at the end you'll be a better person.

Nice anime thread

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Because if someone loves you unconditionally, it's not really 'you' they're in love with as it does not matter who 'you' are.
Unless you acknowledge that the traits that make you unique as a person are worthless, unconditional love is actually quite undesirable.

If someone loves ME, then they are not in love with ME? I don't exactly buy this logic.

>Because if someone loves you unconditionally, it's not really 'you' they're in love with as it does not matter who 'you' are.
Great point. Therefore unconditional love is not pointed at humans (between which there are distinctions that are incompatible with unconditionality) but at God, which is but a single point of infinity of our mind, beyond all and any rational calculations. You can only love God unconditionally, and you can only experience unconditional love from God, too, but you shall understand other people's (quite conditional) love towards you as a reflection of God's love towards you, and you shall understand it through your Faith.

If someone loves just a specific subset of your traits, then do they really love you, or just those traits?

>Real unconditional love does/can exist but
>1. a relationship doesn't work only with feelings like love. There are always rules and shit like trust and compromises you have make.
>2. Unconditional love doesn't mean he/she will love you forever.
If they don't love you forever then there was conditional somewhere you no longer meet and therefore it was not truly unconditional love. Nice try though

>Do things you enjoy and keep improving yourself.

why if you already spend every day thinking about never looking at each other like pic related.

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You can only perceive a person but not experience them fully so you can only like the traits that you comprehend.

Experiencing them not fully, but deeply and thoroughly can work too.

I suppose if you're a static person that views yourself as nothing more than a list of static traits then this might be a problem.

If you love a person who is handsome/rich/loves cats, then why won't you switch to the cuter/richer/cattier person if your love is conditional on these traits?

These do not count as personality traits.

There's limit to which extend you can understand a person, and that limit is yourself. You can only love a reflection of a person within yourself.

Catloving certainly does, and the rest directly stems from them. Are we trying to redeclare conditional love into something more unconditional now, by the way?

>How do I cope with the fact that true, unconditional love does not exist in real life.

The issue here is females. Become gay, men have values women cannot even begin to comprehend.

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It's less that they love YOU and more that they target a feeling of love at whatever YOU are since they consider that traits that differentiate YOU from any other person irrelevant.
Having read the bible, there are a fuck ton of conditions attached to the relationship between God and Man. It's a fucking can of worms.
Relationships SHOULD be tested and undergo stress when either party changes who they are as a person. But they wouldn't if both people loved each other unconditionally. But if two people loved each other unconditionally, then would one really love the other person or would the other person be the target of a feeling of love wholly generated independently by that one person?

I don't think romantic love can be unconditional, it functions on a give and take process.
Familial love on the other hand I can see achieving that.

Then if you can't love a person to a full extent, love him to an extent your vision makes possible.

But what is love

Watch more japanese cartoons

Baby don't hurt me

This. Unconditional love is not just inexistent, it's literally, logically impossible. It's an oxymoron. And that, which you might call unconditional "love" is in fact a mental illness at best. Think about it. What does unconditional mean? Obviously, it means that something is the case without any condition need to be met. In case of unconditional love, someone would need to love you, no matter what. If you're fat as fuck, if you're a gigantic asshole, if you're a creepy, abusive drunkard who reeks of piss. It doesn't matter, you get loved. How can that even be called love? If the other person loves "you" no matter your qualities, then what even defines what she loves? You could literally be another person with a completely different personality and looks. It doesn't make sense. You need to love something which is defined by its characteristics. And in fact that is part of what makes love rewarding in the first place. It's validation. People want to be loved for what they are and what they put effort in. Only a lazy asshole could possibly come up with the idea of being loved without putting in the slightest effort. But even from an egoistic standpoint its stupid. Because like I said, when someone loves you unconditionally they don't actually love "you". Maybe if you just want a cocksleeve instead of love it makes sense, though.

Familial love is only unconditional because the one biological imperative that functions as a condition for it to exist has already been fulfilled.
Your genes have already been passed on to your offspring. The only thing left to do is guard your investment to fruition.

I will always be clearly distinguishable from any other person (barring scifi stuff like copying). So it's a solution which is desirable in a real world.

Anime makes your standards too high. That's it.

So if I am choosing between someone who will break with me if I'll get drunk and who will not, I should choose the former? Not convincing.

Maybe visual, and because the medium is simplified. Even CGDCT shows are mostly about deeply flawed people who suffer a lot.

Are you only an individual because you are distinguishable from every other person? How do you make sure you aren't distinguishable between your past, present, and future self?

Because if you are distinguishable between your past and future iterations and your partner still loves you unconditionally, then you as a person never played a role in your relationship. It could even be argued that a relationship never existed.

>Having read the bible, there are a fuck ton of conditions attached to the relationship between God and Man. It's a fucking can of worms.
That heavily depends on what branch of Christianity and their reading of Bible we're talking about. Usually, finding one beyond God's love and beyond the possibility of salvation is said to be among the most grave of sins, the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Do you enjoy those days when you wake up and the only thought you have is how lonely you are? When all you do all day is mope about, achieving nothing? I don't. I hate them. Those days I can't even watch anime, much less study or exercise or work. It's hard, but you have to learn to ignore those thoughts. No matter how much you indulge in them, things aren't going to get better by themselves. The idle mind is your enemy.
It could be that at the end you won't ever cuddle with someone. Or watch the stars, or wash each other's hair, whatever. Would you rather die knowing you never tried, or knowing you did your best?

Somewhat of a blog, but I think friendships are as important as romantic relationships. Having friends you can share your honest feelings with, I'm convinced, makes you a better person. And who knows, they might become something more! I have one friend I'm genuinely open with, and I'd take a bullet for him. It's much harder to be a waste of oxigen when at least one person has hope in you.

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If there's a condition to be separated from a relationship built on a foundation of unconditional love, that love was never unconditional in the first place.

Visuals and relationships. Especially haremshit. That shit is so bad. Literally everyone is a 10/10 and worships MC's dick. If you're hard into haremshit you'll never find love.

Unless we are talking about radical amnesia, you can always recognize past and future of one human as being the same person (and distinguish him from the others).
By the way, there is a thing which usually changes and worsens people in most aspects, and by now it is happening with everyone. It is called aging. Should your partner getting old be a good excuse to break with them (if it's convenient for you)?

Yes indeed, friendships are just as important as romantic relationships. I have a small circle of friends which I can truly rely on and they really do brighten life for me.

I'm not saying what you should do. I'm saying what you can't you can't get.
But of course if we're not talking about pure ideals but the kind of love we encounter in reality the questions arises where you want to draw the line. Would you want a girl who loves you even if you cheat on her, beat her regularly, and treat her like shit all day? Would you want a girl who loves you even if you want to end the relationship?

You are never separated because you didn't fullfil the condition, you are separated because you actively rejected the love that is given to you. In that, God never suffers a loss because He continues to love you, but you do suffer a loss because you keep yourself deprived of His love by not turning to accept it.

>Would you want a girl who loves you even if you cheat on her, beat her regularly, and treat her like shit all day? Would you want a girl who loves you even if you want to end the relationship?
If I am an evil person who hates her, then of course it will be great for me. If I am a good person who loves or at least likes her enough, then it will be great for me (and for her) too. So... yes in both cases?

yes

You assume you are your past self, but are you really? Are you the same person as you were five years ago, as in indifferentiateable?
Ideally if you were to enter into a beneficial conditional relationship with romance involved, you wouldn't fall in love solely because of your partner's youth. So even if that changes, the aspects of that person that you fell in love with remain present.

I dont know where I got the idea from

I always dreamed even as a kid to find my soul mate, but as the years passed I realised that its obviously bullshit

The oppost literally says that it is about things you can't get IRL.

God loves you, but he lets you consign yourself to death.
If I had a loved one on the brink of suicide, I'd wrestle whatever implement they had to kill themselves out of their hands, regardless of whether they wanted to kill themselves or not. Hell, I'd do it for someone I was merely acquainted with.

>You assume you are your past self, but are you really?
You can think about you five years or even minutes ago as a different person. I don't find this logic useful and think about me five years in the future or, in a good case five hundreds years in a future as me.
>Ideally if you were to enter into a beneficial conditional relationship with romance involved, you wouldn't fall in love solely because of your partner's youth. So even if that changes, the aspects of that person that you fell in love with remain present.
If you remove an aging condition, you make a serious step to the unconditional love.

>If I am a good person who loves or at least likes her enough, then it will be great for me (and for her) too. So... yes in both cases?
Possible, but I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people wouldn't. You do realize a person like that has some serious problems. You would likely be with someone very independent and borderline crazy.

Unconditional love from a romantic partner is unhealthy.
As a lot of anons already said in this thread, it's not really love because the other person will love you regardless of what becomes of you, therefore not really 'you'.
But that's not all there is to it.
It's toxic because you NEED someone to call you on your bullshit whenever you act like a fucking retard.
Everybody needs it.
What you should strive for isn't unconditional love, it's a love from a person you see as your equal. It makes you strive for the best version of yourself always and it inspires you to never give up BECAUSE you dread the option of losing them.
A relationship like that helps you as much as it helps them for the same reason. You basically just subconsciously bring out the best out of each other, because you love each other.

Yes, and my point is that not only does it not exist it is logiaclly impossible for it to exist.

>the vast majority of people wouldn't
I'm pretty sure that will be the positive factor for vast majority of people.
>You do realize a person like that has some serious problems. You would likely be with someone very independent and borderline crazy.
Of course someone awful and crazy unconditionally loving you may be worse than someone perfect and loving you a tiny bit less. But that's a huge additional conditioning. Even in the former case you may check YOUR unconditional love by loving them back despite all trouble.

The way God relates to people and the way people relate to each other is fundamentally different, so your example, while understandable, should not be applied here. It is only possible to give people freedom by letting them consign themselves to death. See, freedom is the ability to choose, but if the options you choose from are not that different from each other, then the choice lacks true seriousness and boils down to mere arbitrariness. Therefore, to make a human free you need him to be able to choose, freely and out of his own will, between eternal bliss and eternal damnation, between saving his soul and destroying it. Not given this choice, people would be no more than automatons. So you shall understand this possibility of eternal damnation as another sign of God's love, the greatest of them all.

But what if you really are a different person? Who would the partner who claims to love you unconditionally really be in love with then?
>500 years later
Ah I see you're a futurist of culture as well.

>If you remove an aging condition, you make a serious step to the unconditional love.
A healthy conditional relationship should be tested by the effect of time, true, but a healthy conditional relationship would have other aspects of the other person that form it's foundation other than that person's age.

It can exist logically, and IRL you can have various approximations of it, sometimes pretty close.

What about people who value not dying over their freedom? Is it loving to let them potentially doom themselves to death for the price of a freedom they don't really want?
If so, then the all-loving God doesn't really take the true desires of his loved ones into account.

To be perfectly honest, the things I feel for my group of close friends (three in total, 2 of them not quite on the same level as the one I mentioned) are the most intense feelings I've ever experienced. It's not love, at least I don't think so, though I've always been vaguely bisexual so who knows. I think friendships (at least male ones) are really hurt by the 30 layers of ironic competition that they apparently must operate under. God damn if it isn't nice to tell someone you're proud of them and him look at you with genuinelly grateful eyes, even if the rest of the time you're making fun of each other's taste in chinese cartoons. I might not be the most romantically gifted individual, but man I really am grateful for having these people in my life. /blog

Women are genetically coded to not have morality.

There are a large amount of things that can't change about you. The time you were born, the place you were born, who you were born to, your genetic makeup... You can't change what you did 10 years ago, or even what you did ten seconds ago.
All these unchanging things are still aspects of yourself as well, there's an infinite amount of things that someone could unconditionally love you for, a lot of which also happen to be immutable.

Like I said before, outside of literal fucking magic, you are never going to be a completely different person. To use an example, if someone falls in love with you for your actions at a point in time, the actions in that past is never going to change.

What if someone calling you out on your bullshit doesn't work because you're already broken and it has zero effect?

>the other person will love you regardless of what becomes of you, therefore not really 'you'.
I found that claim witty, but oxymoronic and false.
>It's toxic because you NEED someone to call you on your bullshit whenever you act like a fucking retard.
Someone helping me to avoid unhealthy decisions is different from someone breaking with me if I make such decisions.
>What you should strive for isn't unconditional love, it's a love from a person you see as your equal.
These two things are not exclusive (and the second is more good than not, but not necessary).

Honestly the most based part about male friendship is how you can bond and grow closer BY insulting each other's taste in chinese cartoons

People do not always know their true desires, look at any addict. Moreover, freedom is a prerequisite to existing at all, so you can't have not-dying, because that wouldn't be living in the first place.

>I'm pretty sure that will be the positive factor for vast majority of people
What will be?
>Of course someone awful and crazy unconditionally loving you may be worse than someone perfect and loving you a tiny bit less.
This is not about being loved "more" or "less". It's about what you are loved for. When I do something nice, when I approve myself, then I like it to be appreciated. Note that this of course not the only positive aspect of love, but it's one. If your are loved no matter what you do, you don't get any information about whether you actually DESERVE love. And most people desire to perceive themselves as being loveable.

>What you should strive for isn't unconditional love, it's a love from a person you see as your equal.
uhhh this isn't mutually exclusive

If your change is comparable to the full amnesia or total mid rewrite, then it may be make the said case. But this case isn't very different from dying, so the person who loves me should probably struggle hard to prevent it.

>It can exist logically, and IRL you can have various approximations of it, sometimes pretty close.
You can get kinda close in reality but by no meaningful defintion could love be "unconditional" in any way. In fact, unconditional is a word so strong it hardly applies to anything outside of formal logic.

It is because it should be clear to you that you yourself are incapable of unconditional love. No human being is.

*when I improve myself

>I found that claim witty, but oxymoronic and false.
It makes perfect sense.
Let's say you have a girlfriend who loves you unconditionally, you started dating when you were in a successful place in your life, then you fell down to hookers and drugs, you even developed some STDs, but she still loves you even if you're nothing but a shell of your previous self.
What does she love, exactly? That's less unconditional love, and more like a robot that has no other choice but loving you. If she has no conditions for you at a state like that, that you need to pull yourself together or it's over, you can't call that true love. You're just gonna die and she'll be there to see it otherwise.

>unconditional love
That's what robots are for, and yes it will happen and it'll be great.
There's a reason AI means love in Nipponese

Stop bitching and pull yourself together faggot.
And if you dont care about what they say, then they're not that important in your eyes.

i am

If it wasn't already painfully obvious, a person who loves you unconditionally obviously isnt your equal.
They hold you in a much higher regard than they do themselves.

The only people that do that are the ones that are way too fucking scared of being alone to the point they don't give a shit as long as they have each other, it's unhealthy attachment.
>If a girl doesn't inconditionally love me even if i'm a neet piece of shit then she's a roastie baww
Grow up user

How can freedom be a prerequisite to existing if God is the only entity with total control over how his existence plays out? Does nothing except God exist?

You're what? Capable of unconditional love?

The fact you changed means you're a different person.
If your partner loves you for the same reason they loved you before, it either means the part they loved about you didn't change or the target of their unconditional love is interchangeable.

>t.

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not him but there's nothing wrong with this and you sound like a woman or an american
unconditional love is bound to trying and wanting the best for your partner. you're saying it like the girl just sees her boyfriend go into a self destructive spiral without even trying to better him. an unconditional lover would do their best to help you through that and then still love you if you fail

And if you love them unconditionally as well?
Not to mention you said that you should be striving for love from someone YOU see as your equal.

I am talking from common sense user.
How can your partner help you, in a state like that, other than tell you that you need to pull your shit together?
Please tell me how!

The thing with agape is that it requires you to love yourself first. Most people being use "unconditional love" to one person as escapism. Also agape is universal, not really a one-to-one relationship thing.

not him but see What if she loved you because you were in such a successful place in the first place? What if she's attracted to your potential, which is proved by you reaching it at one point? Neither of those things have changed regardless of how far you've fallen. What if she's attracted to anything else that didn't change?

Then both of you are doomed to an eventual downward spiral of self-destruct.
Dont you get it? You remove conditions out of the equation and you get chaos.
Everything needs to have a certain set of rules in order to properly function in this world.

The only truly unconditional love is between parent and child, and you'll just have to accept that:
1) Sexual love is never unconditional.
2) Your childhood is over.
If you want to experience somethimg like it again you'll have to breed and take the provider position. It is YOU who will have to do the unconditional love thing now.

- a dad.

>Ah I see you're a futurist of culture as well.
All hail the future robocatgirls!

>The fact you changed means you're a different person.
I change throughout all my life. That makes me different in a "has differences" sense, but not it "a different person" way.

Then all the more reason why she should slap the shit out of you and tell you that you have to stop being self-destructive and start building yourself again to reach that peak.

If a girl will help me to fight my vices and my downfall, then she is a loving one and it is a desirable outcome. If she will stop loving me because of them, that may be justified in some cases, but will obviously make her love smaller. Not sure why should I wish for the later in any case.

>The only truly unconditional love is between parent and child
Since there are a lot of parents and children who hate each other, that is not strictly true.

can't you love both yourself and your partner unconditionally

name one action you as a human being take that's 100% altruistic and not at least a way to make yourself "feel good" about the thing you've just done.
Only thing I can think off is not killing yourself even if you want to.

Painkillers, lifting and anime help in numbing the pain.

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You would exist but you wouldn't exist as a human, but merely as a part of God. Your ability to drive yourself into eternal damnation is your freedom. You're, in a certain sense, separate from God, because it is possible for you to fall into sin, even if it's also always possible for you to reach God. And precisely in this separation from God, in the possibility of sin that is any human's imperfection, you're free, because a perfect being would carry God's will perfectly, being perfect, like an angel does, but in that it won't be free.

Hit a nerve uh neet shitter, I'm male btw

Because if you depend on her fixing your issues for you then you develop an unhealthy dependency on her existence.
You need to pull yourself together and fix your own shit, but you dont always see what others see. That's why another set of eyes should always be there for you to tell you to fix what you're unable to see about yourself, and then you need to be the one who does it.

No, because unconditional = no conditions.
No conditions = I dont care what happens to you, I'll still love you!!!
I dont care what happens to you, I'll still love you!!! = a fucking recipe for disaster.

>What will be?
Someone loving you unconditionally (or in a way which approximates that word the best)
>f your are loved no matter what you do, you don't get any information about whether you actually DESERVE love.
I'd prefer to deserve that love of course, but I'd also prefer someone who will love me even in absence of such circumstances.

>Because if you depend on her fixing your issues for you then you develop an unhealthy dependency on her existence.
Practice shows that having someone to firmly depend on is superior to counting only on yourself.
>That's why another set of eyes should always be there for you to tell you to fix what you're unable to see about yourself, and then you need to be the one who does it.
That is not in any way incompatible with the unconditional love.

No you can't, if you love someone unconditionally then you might as well love unconditionally any other person because there is no condition in your love.

There is an obvious condition of it being this and only this person, but it is hidden in a definition.

Honestly if you ask me I think the only person I will ever be able to love is my mother, the reason for this is because she has always loved me, not matter what I did she has never abandoned me, she has berated me a lot whenever I've done something bad, sure, but even in my lowest moment she was still there.

I do not think I'll be able to find another woman like that, and if I can't, then what's the point? This is the type of love I want, but I can't get it, so there is no point in searching for it.

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They do more than tell you, they help you. They stick by you when you're job hunting and all the shit that comes with being poor, encourage you not to give up, and are willing to make an effort as long as you are.

Read my post again, comprehend it fully, and come back.

>I dont care what happens to you, I'll still love you!!! = a fucking recipe for disaster.
it's just as much a gamble as anything else
the person you unconditionally love could love you and have your best interests at heart and want you to live a life full of happiness
or they could be an absolute asshole

but to say it is automatically a recipe for disaster is silly

>and are willing to make an effort as long as you are.
That's a condition.

Romantic chemistry doesn't exist either.

>he didn't take the spiritual pill
just practice anahata meditation bro

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>Read my post again,
Just did.
>comprehend it fully
Just did.
>and come back.
Just did!

Of course it's automatically a recipe for disaster.
I think a lot of anons itt dont really understand what 'unconditional' truly means. Including you.

To be fair I think first we have to define love in the first place, because it feels like half the people here are equating unconditional love with absolute obedience. Which is dumb.

I don't want a girlfriend, what I want is a corpse that is always hot, doesn't rot, and can stand on it's own if I want it to.

How is it inherently a recipe for disaster?

How are you the same person even though you have differences from your past self? If you aren't interchangeable, then you're differentiable. If you're differentiable, you're not the same.

No, what you're implying is that you should be able to do nothing if you are in a bad situation that affects the relationship and put the burden solely on your partner. That isnt unconditional love either, thats taking advantage of your partner.

So you thank your mother by refusing to grow up?

I am different from the past me in some attributes, but not really different in a way I am different from other human. You may believe that you now and you tomorrow are as different as you and me, but that philosophy wouldn't be of much use.

I don't think "coping" implies anything being solved.

You can always tie that special noose, user.

user, unconditional love means that you love the person regardless of any conditions.
Do you understand what that means?
You cant condition them to ANYTHING because then your love for them relies on a condition.
It inevitably means, that no matter what happens or what they do, you would still love them.
Bad things and bad decisions are gonna happen, this is how the world goes. But your love is unconditional! You can't voice your conditions, you sit there and you love the person no matter what they do or how they act.
Are you starting to understand your mistake now?

You usually take advantage of your partner in a some way no matter if you deeply love them back, or just use them for other goals.

I wouldn't say that, I'm getting better, I have a job now and I help around the house, I'm doing much better than last year, I can tell you that much.

But as a human, both of your choices, salvation or damnation, lead to a state of existence where your freedom of choice is lost. If freedom of choice is the defining state of humanity, will humans cease to be human once they find themselves in salvation or damnation?

How am I implying that exactly

Unconditional love means they will love me no matter what happen, it does not mean they will do anything I say.

Not him but I genuinely don't see the problem here, in fact I would even go as far as to say you made it sound even better.

There's a continuous sequence of changes separating you from other humans, and the extent to which you differ from past yourself and the extent to which you differ from other people are only different quantitiatively, not qualitatively.

Hey, If I was concerned with the utility and practicality of my actions, I wouldn't be on a mongolian basketweaving forum.

If I am a parent, I may give my children freedom of choice between playing at home or outside, but I won't give them choice between being healthy and breaking their neck.

No, I'm not. Assuming the person that is being unconditionally loved isn't a complete literally evil being that wants nothing more than to torture me, I see nothing wrong here.

Why not?
Their values hold no importance in a relationship like that.

Hence you are never saved or damned in the finite world, only at the infinite, in the eternal (in which you, humanly speaking, cease to exist, since existence is inherently temporal). This is why trying to imagine hell or heaven in some sort of temporality is frivolous at best and leads to very dangerous misunderstandings at worst.

>but I won't give them choice between being healthy and breaking their neck.
Then you are a bad parent.

Then I can only tell you to gain some experience in life and then see if you think the same, user.

I can bitch all I want on a japanese cartoon imageboard and there's nothing you can do

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Hey dude come back to /rlg/

Not only evil people make horrible mistakes, user.

God, as our Heavenly Father, in allowing us to live on Earth and decide whether we accept his salvation or not, can be compared to a Human father giving his six-year-old son the choice between doing everything he tells him to perfectly for eternity and jumping into a very deep, dark hole. Regardless of what the child chooses, he's not going to have any free will to exercise by the end of it.

Yeah I can tell you're a lil' bitch.
Dont make me swing those fists, fag

Theres a difference between taking advantage and doing something for your partner willingly.

This thread is making me not want to get a girlfriend, honestly.

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So no matter what I choose, I get oblivion and an end to my existence as a differentiated entity?
Seems my loving Heavenly Father is out for my best interests indeed.

I would sit on your face and stuff my nuts in your mouth

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It does, you're just too autistic for it because you blame society for your own faults rather than looking inward to improve yourself.

No swearing in the halls!

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Not him but that's pretty hot.

Because you called putting an effort to better yourself together a condition.

Their values will have importance one way or another. Trivially if you love them back, but even if you don't love some yandere and she loves you no matter what, she may give you some trouble.

Its Yea Forums, you're not going to get a healthy depiction of relationships.

I will fucking end you

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Can the love be unconditional if it involves tying the love object to a huge tire?

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Your mistake is that you don't understand the distinction between eternal bliss and eternal damnation properly. This distinction is more important to you than anything you were or is or will be during your existence. Eternal bliss beats all the temporal pleasures. Sure, you could say that there is no eternal bliss, and in the finite, temporal sense you would indeed be correct, for eternal bliss is of the eternal and not of the finite. However, by doing this you would subject yourself to equally eternal damnation through the capital sin of Despair.

Regardless, putting us in the position where we have to choose between one and the other is hardly very loving on God's part, let alone unconditionally loving.

This. The reason why none of you in this thread can find love is not because it doesn't exist, but because you're all insufferable.

Like what? I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you aren't currently a serial killer or some other terrible thing.
What exactly is so horrible that you plan to do in your life that would make some heavily regret loving you to the point of absolute disaster if they continue to?

It's the only way of existing, by facing this choice. If you do not understand this choice properly, then your existence lacks seriousness and is essentially of despair.

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only if you're planning on taking advantage of them while they can't move

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I'd prefer my existence to be the CGDCT instead of CGDCD.

But the original argument wasn't whether this choice needed to be faced or not, it was whether God is truly unconditionally loving if he forces this choice on his creations.