Why such different approaches to these shonen jump protags? Asta was born with no mana or talent. He trained his body so hard that he's absolutely jacked and pretty much anyone that sees his body immediately gains respect for him. Later when he unlocks his grimoire it because apparent that the only reason hes able to use it so effectively is because his physical strength and speed were so much higher than his peers. A well written way to justify and overpowered ability.
Then you have Deku. People in his verse like Stain and Eraserhead exist. Their quirks don't amp their physical abilities at all. They simply trained themselves to be capable of superhuman hero level feats. So given that this is possible and he apparently wanted to be a hero more than anyone, why didn't Deku do the same? Why did he sit in his room crying waiting for a hand out?
Totally agree,at least Asta deserve his power,he's not a crybaby who goes "o my seven quirks".
Mason Perez
>jumpshit
Anthony Bell
Because hori was retarded enough to not know how to make a batman story,but then again if he tried to do so,it would've been the king of "foreshadowing",if it was 7 quirks on this timeline,in an alternate world,he would've pulled 7 ways to counteract the bad ones from nowhere and call it foreshadowing.
Even worse is that Knuckleduster exists. A totally quirkless old guy who beats the shit out of Stain. He's so strong Aizawa thinks his strength is from a quirk.
Isaac Wilson
because deku is an actual realistic character
William Nelson
I'll be honest, it makes more sense when the hero already has the power from the start. If you're going with "The one guy who doesn't have powers ACTUALLY HAS THE TRUEST AND MOST POWERFUL POWER", things become contrived or really dumb.
It's better if you - straight up - just say "Look, this is your ability, and our hero's going to be working with this as we go along". Having 'no mana or talent' is nonsensical, because someone who had neither would be utterly useless with no hope of ever improving.
Look at the previous Jump works. Look at Chinese wuxia. The protagonist always turns out to be from the destined bloodline, or the bastard son of the founder, or something. You never, ever get the "He's from nowhere and equal to nothing", because they realized that was an inherently dishonest premise.
Jonathan Butler
The simple answer is that Deku gave up. Society kept telling him that he couldn't do it and he listened. He's not like Asta with his infinite self-confidence and desire to prove people wrong, so when confronted with literally everyone in his life telling him he would fail he just buckled under that. That he gave up doesn't mean he stopped wanting it, just that he stopped trying - hence why he puts on a face and makes it seem like he believes he can do it. He's sucking it up and going through the motions but he doesn't really believe in himself. Even his note-taking says more about him being a nerd than him trying for heroism. But it's not like he was waiting for a hand-out - that's not something he ever even considered existing - he was just coasting listlessly, waiting for his dreams to really be out of reach. It's only after being told by his hero that he could succeed that he even thought about putting in effort. This is why he suddenly is full of determination; now that he can see the light at the end of the tunnel - now that someone has faith in him - he actually thinks it's worthwhile to struggle.
And to that last point, how would Asta have looked if his effort really was in vain? If he never got the 5-leaf grimoire? I think his perseverance would still have been admirable, but no matter the case it's clear he wouldn't have made it into the magic knights - let alone become wizard king.
Noah Watson
you remember that stain got beaten up by middle schoolers right?
Bentley Gray
He couldn't have done it anyway without All-Might.
I mean, imagine trying to fight Overhaul with no powers and basic martial arts, maybe a can of mace. Good fucking luck. Or Muscular, see how long you last before he punches you in a bloody smear.
Brody Johnson
In theory he could have been a hero - just not a very great one. But it is important to remember the Knuckleduster, the only person known to do heroics without a quirk, actually did have a quirk at one point and lost it. It was a pretty powerful one too, and one that almost certainly would have helped him to train his body and mind for quirkless use. And to top it off there is no known person to become a sanctioned hero quirklessly - just one vigilante, which Deku definitely didn't want to be.
Joshua Long
I prefer Deku over Asta. He feels more human to me.
John Rodriguez
Isn’t he taking literal steroids though
Caleb Perez
Is there any reason Deku couldn't? Knuckleduster could do it.
Jack Gray
Deku was 13-14
Jonathan Wilson
Deku was and is a child. do you expect a child to get any sort of drugs? and even if, what would it help? even stain got beaten up by middleschoolers
Kayden Cook
Forgot to add: Doing any serious training, especially weight training, before 14/15 can permanently fuck you up anyway. If we imagine that pro heroes want to at all keep their bodies healthy and growing then he's only about a year behind his classmates in terms of heavy-duty training (although they have a bigger leg up in quirk usage and generally seem to have more natural athleticism).
Nicholas Rodriguez
Asta is done way better because they don't abandon his "no magic abilities" in the first fucking chapter. instead he develops another kind of power through hard work and so the series maintains his "outsider" status while also showing real results of his determination (besides the usual shonen protg yelling about how he's gonna be the best) MHA starts like that but then immediately reverses it and goes "jk lol midoriya has the strongest quirk now", made even worse by the fact that he now has lol 7 quirks
Blake Smith
>develops another kind of power through hard work A book comes flying out at him seemingly at random. He had no clue that would happen and his muscle training was, within the scope of his knowledge, pointless. I love Asta but you shouldn't just go on the internet and tell lies.
As for Midoriya, he's not the same kind of protagonist at all. They both have the "born with nothing and discriminated against" origin, but Asta is a more traditional shounen protagonist with the will to keep going anyway. Deku doesn't have the confidence for that. The beginning of Black Clover becomes about someone who works hard despite it seeming hopeless being rewarded, whereas the start of BNHA is about someone with no prospects being given a reason to try in the first place. Did it have to be the strongest quirk? No - it could have just been encouragement, muscle training, and gadgets if they had let Hori go with his original idea. But it being the strongest quirk doesn't betray the core theme in the slightest.
Eli Thomas
>three threads with the same complaints How about you write this down so you don't forget and make this thread again. Deku was a dumb, aimless kid with no reason to believe he could succeed. He wanted to be a hero like AM, not a doctor or whatever. He’s a selfish child. We all know. And we don’t care. Not every MC needs to be a paragon of virtue and willpower. Furthermore, that shit stops mattering after the first few chapters. The story is then thrust into its main setting, only occasionally coming back to dwell on how Deku got there. And guess what? He doubts if he deserves his power too. But why would you care? You don’t actually like the series. You just want to shitpost.
Austin Long
>I love Asta but you shouldn't just go on the internet and tell lies. I'm not talking about how he actually got his powers, I'm talking about how his powers in terms of plot progression. we see him doing tough physical training to make up for his weaknesses instead of just bitching about it, and then right after that in the story he gets a unique kind of power. they're connected in terms of narrative
Liam Turner
>Even worse is that Knuckleduster exists. You haven't been reading Vigilantes I see.
>People in his verse like Stain and Eraserhead exist People quirks who use their abilities to fight? Yeah that's a good comparison to a quirkless individual.
Kevin Taylor
what's the last shonen related to jump that's not been absolute dogshit?
Xavier Davis
Yet one series is vastly more popular and critically acclaimed while the other is critically slammed and not nearly as popular. Almost like your backstory isn't what makes you a good character especially when you're an annoying faggot.
Cameron Parker
the problem is the anime fell flat and that's a huge part of making the source material popular, and it did because asta is an unbelievably massive faggot >youtube.com/watch?v=LKt3NwcZZGg
Josiah Perez
>He trained his body so hard that he's absolutely jacked and pretty much anyone that sees his body immediately gains respect for him. This isn't true in the slightest
>Later when he unlocks his grimoire it because apparent that the only reason hes able to use it so effectively is because his physical strength and speed were so much higher than his peers. And this is bad writing. So basically he would have gotten his grimoire to begin with and its only at a mere contrivance that he can lift it because somehow his training regime allowed him to be able to prepare himself to lift two 200lb swords?
>People in his verse like Stain and Eraserhead exist. Their quirks don't amp their physical abilities at all. They simply trained themselves to be capable of superhuman hero level feats. Your point dies immediately for the sheer fact that both of these characters utilize their quirks in combat and both of these characters actually need to do so or else they'll die otherwise.
Aaron Young
This is terrible.
Julian Roberts
going to nit pick asta here and say his training was a joke. It's the stereotypical "1000 push ups! 1000 sit ups! 100 laps around the village!"
at least deku, despite being a massive faggot, actually did good training and shit like bench press and squats
Leo Ward
>Not every MC needs to be a paragon of virtue and willpower With how fucked our society is, yes we kind of do.
Andrew Rogers
>the anime The Black Clover manga was not well-received and people fucking hated it before the anime. All the anime did was made people realize why they didn't like it. Don't blame the VA for doing his best with the material he was given he actually does an okay job with series outside BC.
Deku never stopped wanting or trying to be a hero though. The very first issue shows Deku doing something none of the other heroes were brave enough to do, at the potential cost of his life.
He's just like Asta in that no one gave a shit about him or taught him any skills related to what he wanted to do. Deku spent his time analysing heroes, coming up with strategies and learning how the most famous ones tend to operate while Asta just benched a lot though.
It is really stupid how Hori has Stain become so feared and dangerous though. Gentle had way better powers than him but was laughed out of society and he's able to do clearly super human things that no other basic human character is shown to do; not even Knuckleduster does shit like Stain.
Deku isn't shit. Stain is shit.
Sebastian Bailey
You're right even with the perfect VA the character would still be ass.
Aiden Butler
No they don't especially given the most popular superhero of all time is well-liked due to how flawed and human he is.
Saya literally has a super special secret kind of magic. He's the same as Deku.
Chase Moore
Tsukune was the only decent shounen protag
Robert Murphy
Spiderman is still a paragon of virtue and willpower, he just still suffers for it and sometimes fails.
Gavin Nelson
I mean you're ignoring the fact that even without Super Powers Peter is a turbo genius who if he had the resources could build Stark level tech. He's just as idealistic as many other super heroes
Daniel Hall
Thanks for the laugh
Evan Ross
completely disagree. Either someone is a hero with virtue and will power or they are the anti-hero or villain. If you try to do this in between you just get an annoying little crap you can't root for like deku. Like the moment you design a character that isn't the typical hero idealistic you might as well enter anti-hero territory
Ryan Anderson
Actually, it's because he's the paragon of virute we all aspire to be.
He's also bad at relationships, fucks up every time and socially awkward. The point is that he's just a regular guy been given a big responsibility not that he was born being a parragon of vritue that was a title being pushed on to him
>Either someone is a hero with virtue and will power or they are the anti-hero or villain. Look at this retard.
>Supes
Good example you got there where most people can't stand his ass nowadays.
>Good example you got there where most people can't stand his ass nowadays. Yeah because we live in a society that would rather argue about what they sexually identify as, why pixels have sexual rights despite not being real, and act like minorities are flawless. Meanwhile the Amazon is on fire, endangered animal and human trafficking is rampant in Europe and the middle east, US education continues to stagnate and shift blame of shootings caused by ignorance and corruption on things they don't like, governments and corporations are getting away with more and more, and we as a human species are losing the will to do anything other than bitch in echochambers. People can't stand him because nobody wants to admit we've become everything he stands against, apathetic, morally bankrupt, entitled, corrupted fat pieces of shit.
Alexander Brooks
Supes has been untouchable since his beginningsThe only one who can even appraoch his popularity is Batman.
John Carter
>Asta Shitty Gary Stu >Deku Started out okay before becoming a borin Gary Stu
Brody Diaz
also that the first thing he was going to do was earn money thanks to his powers and that shot him through the butt. spiderman represents the common man but with a high moral thanks to a good family
Camden Price
>was earn money thanks to his powers and that shot him through the butt. Not the issue. It's letting a robber he could have easily stopped get past him because he decided to only watch out for number one that bit him in the ass.
Logan Moore
Deku was gonna apply to UA despite being quirkless. He wasn’t waiting for a handout.
Also, his “handout” from All-Might required more serious training than most teens go through, and STILL breaks his limbs when he initially uses it. And he decides to continue pursuing his dream in spite of having a quirk that’s excruciatingly painful to use.
Colton Lee
Knuckleduster could only do it because he's hopped up on steroids and stimulants. His body's gone to shit without them.
Leo Collins
He just got hot.
Xavier Bell
Asta didn't really have any options to begin with, all he could do was train or do chores. His hometown and his status as an orphan from a poor orphanage aswell as his lack of mana meant his future paths were either train the one asset (his body) he had or live as pretty much a cripple destined for nothing. Deku i think just wanted closure so he applied for UA and expected to fail so he could move on.As such he didn't train since he knows the end result and even said so himself he would think of a more realistic future just before he is told he could be a hero.
Grayson Cruz
Which will end first? MHA or BC? Who survives the longest will be the new king of shounen.
Ryan Edwards
deku is a poorly written character the manga and anime sucks people who defend it are brain dead
You're comparing a medieval setting to a modern setting. People didn't go to the gym to lift weights in 1000 AD.
Justin Clark
Did you have any doubt that any of his opponents existed for any reason than "to be defeated by him"?
Black Clover is hated on this board because you have to be over 18 to post here, and adults just aren't interested in a show where the protagonist dispatches antagonist after antagonist, overcoming externally-imposed obstacle after externally-imposed obstacle, whilst remaining the whole time the same perfect being he started as.
Juan Campbell
Yes.
Landon Nelson
For all the hate Deku gets, at least he doesnt make my ears bleed like Asta.
Isaiah Nguyen
Deku is intelligent with a single overprotective mom and has lives in a society that tells people that if they don't have a quirk, they're freaks and should feel bad. Asta is an idiot that grew up surrounded by people that accepted him just the way he was. It was Asta that didn't like it and wanted to be the Magic King. Deku only had his mom, even his teachers were against him.
Chase Ward
Never thought we'd get to the point where we're complaining about how a Shounen protagonist isn't enough of a cliche.
Austin Martinez
Does anyone complain about Arale?
Grayson Barnes
I know, real, straight-forward heroism is too much for babies like you.
Adrian Ward
>lives in a society that tells people that if they don't have a quirk, they're freaks and should feel bad. It doesn't. Using quirks outside of pro heroing is a crime, and 99,99999% of all quirks are absolutely fucking useless anyway. "Quirkless" is only a flaw among schoolyard children and faggots who are obssessed about doing the only job that absolutely requires not just a quirk, but a useful one.
Thomas Jones
Stain was a creepy serial killer who used his quirk to his advantage.
Michael Powell
In theory, but a big point is also society is dismissive if not hostile if people don't almost immediately meet the arbitrary standard of a strong hero. Deku has to pass the entrance exams, hope he doesn't run into some dick bag teacher or administrator who straight up thinks quirkless have no potential, pass license exams, get internships, then find agencies, etc. With a severe physical and social handicap.
Charles Scott
>I mean, imagine trying to fight Overhaul with no powers and basic martial arts Mirio literally did this and stalled him for like an hour
Tyler Perry
Same character exept : Asta is ultra optimistic Deku is ultra pessimistic
David Harris
Asta would have gotten magical tools instead. He got the grimoire because he despaired for a moment which called over the devil.
Landon Stewart
Asta doesn't deserve his ability at all. He earns super-human speed and strength through training as if training is supposed to give people super powers. And if it did in that universe then everyone would be as super human as him. He's a clear Mary Sue.
Michael Miller
Isn't MHA supposed to end soon because Hori wants to end it? So probably BC, though whether it will be king of shonen is another question.
Justin Wood
Knuckleduster used to have a quirk.
Nicholas Foster
Only 5 minutes user.
Christopher Ramirez
More proof that Mirio is a chad that deserved the powers.
Justin Hill
How do you fail at using commas?
Andrew Cooper
>Deku is intelligent Deku is just as dumb as about any other shonen protagonist.
The "weakest guy turns out to be the strongest" was a fresh idea at start to combat the stale "chosen one" trope and for self-inserts, but it has quickly turned to be masturbatory writing, thanks to Mahouka and tons of other battle harems in the past few years. It's insane how modern authors play mental gymnastics, defying their own established physics just to allow their MC to be the strongest through some magic loophole, and people got tired of this bullshit.
The "chosen one" trope seems stale but it's all about how you present the story and develop the characters. Look at Dragon Quest Daibouken, it remained everyone's favorite. That shit was so cash because everyone got developed equally and have their own heroics, not only the destined hero, and I bet everyone's favorite character is Pop the mage instead of Dai the hero
Asher Hughes
No, everyone is above him physically thanks to strengthening magic so they usually don’t train their bodies. He’s not even the most buff character, yami is, ki is a different move set from magic too.
Nolan Adams
i'm illiterate.
Luke Flores
>you remember that stain got beaten up by middle schoolers right?
>Guy whose power is temporary paralyzation, and who specializes in assassinations of one person at a time gets beat by 3 teens, one of which is the offspring of the second strongest hero and has a quirk even stronger than that, the comes from a long lineage of decently powerful heroes, and the last was gifted the number one heroes quirk, the same one that can create an updraft so massive that it affects whether patterns.
Hunter Mitchell
>f he never got the 5-leaf grimoire? I think his perseverance would still have been admirable, but no matter the case it's clear he wouldn't have made it into the magic knights - let alone become wizard king.
He would've found some other way like he always does
Caleb Ward
No one praised him for this.
Nathan Rivera
Even better because now even Mirio doesn't have an excuse.
>People quirks who use their abilities to fight? Yeah that's a good comparison to a quirkless individual.
Wow I can stun people for 5 seconds, thats sooo useful to a fight, its not like there's something like a STUN GUN that could do the same or anything, yup really useful.
Samuel Garcia
Knuckleduster has years of fighting experience and drugs himself up. And even then he's only an alley brawler. To make normal human compete with demigods you need Batpulls.
Nathan Jackson
Mirio had to drop out. He doesn't really try for hero any more.
Eli Davis
Always cracks me up. Almost as retarded as when Deku finally reaches the epiphany that he should use OfA on all his body.
Blake Baker
It actually is memes aside.
He doesn't, but the grimoire defected to him because he's only person capable of using it. Also he's called a Mary Sue a lot but he's a good example how to not make your protagonist a win button.
Colton Allen
Thats lame, what about his dream of "saving a million people" or whatever. Even if he isn't a hero he could still save people in their day to day lives, one doesn't have to wear a wonky costume to be someone's hero.
Colton Allen
That's true, but what I was saying was more than that. Even if Deku could get to Knuckleduster-tier he would still only be good enough for vigilantism, it would never be enough to get onto the track to become even a fodder-tier hero.
Camden Rivera
It really is quite a spectacle isn't it >Uses AfO on arms arms blows up >Takes him over 20 chapters AND having his arms irrevocably fucked up to even CONCEIVE as in he never even thought ONCE about not going full power and using his legs
Should't it be common sense that your legs are stronger than your arms
Shouldn't a kid is supposed to be smart and always take notes have been able to think of this. Hell shouldn't Hori made it a point for Deku to use aspects of other Pro Heroes into his fighting style as thats the only thing he was able to do when he was being a crybaby bitch.
The kid is like a fucking car wreck on repeat
Jason Lewis
I mean, he isn't necessarily going to stop helping people. He's just not going to superhero high school anymore. He can be someone's hero, just not a Pro-Hero.
Nicholas Flores
>Asta is an idiot that grew up surrounded by people that accepted him just the way he was.
Imagine lying this fucking much. As if every villain or noble or even regular villager fuck doesn't laugh at him for being a poorfag with no detectable magic. Plus Asta is literally THE ONLY person we've been shown in canon who doesn't have magic whereas Deku is just part of an undesirable minority which is still 20% of the population. People use magic so much it's a part of their jobs and everything they do to the point where people don't know how Asta is ever going to get a job or survive in the real world; he can't even use their main form of transport, whereas lots of people who have garbage quirks that basically make them quirkless yet still get by fine.
Henry Wright
>He doesn't, but the grimoire defected to him because he's only person capable of using it.
Literally everyone else who tries to hold his sword(s)( barring the magic sucking thing) hardly can due to how heavy it was, had Asta been a bitch like Deku and given up, even if the EXACT same event played out where he first got it he would've died and because he wouldn't have the years of physical training to utilize it.
> Also he's called a Mary Sue a lot but he's a good example how to not make your protagonist a win button.
Asta is great fighter, but he only really excels when he's paired with other fighters, i think he's only won a minority of his fights on his own. He's strong, but he's not so strong that it falls into a category of bullshit like other shounen protags.
>Puts years upon years of physical training (something most magic users don't do because they don't have to honestly) >Hurr Durr hes a Mary Sue because he can hit reeeal good durrrr
And let me guess Deku is a good character who deserves to have OfA because he worked out for like what, one year prior, even though he could hardly do a push up at 14.
Mason Powell
>I mean, imagine trying to fight Overhaul with no powers and basic martial arts, maybe a can of mace.
Even with power most heroes would be fucking slaughtered, I doubt any of them would last as long as de-powered Mirio did, thats for sure.
Henry Howard
>Legs Legs being stronger than his arms wouldn't mitigate his self-harm until he got it under control - nor would it help when he had to go over his limit. Not to mention legs actually heal worse than arms, generally speaking. The reason he took so long to switch is because up until then he didn't need to. Each prior problem had a solution that worked and this one didn't need to be addressed until later. Additionally he never thought of his style as "punching" but as "fighting", so consciously differentiating that from "kicking" wasn't on the forefront of his mind. The anime did drag out his already a-bit-too-long realization scene though.
>Lessened power He was working on that shit the whole time. Stop speed reading.
>Full Cowling A matter of frames of reference. He thought of the quirk in one way and didn't work that way. Full Cowling was mostly to address the startup time and lag between attacks anyway - the actual effect on bone breaking came from learning to put the brakes on.
Asher Parker
Yeah. I've managed to turn multiple IRL friends who previously liked MHA into BCfags. Most of them were so sick of how stale the manga's gotten. Most people are finally starting to realize that MHA was only ahead initially because it had such a strong start and more appealing aesthetic/more memorable character designs whereas BC took a little longer to get on track but is great now.
Luis Davis
>Additionally he never thought of his style as "punching" but as "fighting", so consciously differentiating that from "kicking" wasn't on the forefront of his mind.
Kind of retarded for an "intelligent kid"
>He was working on that shit the whole time.
You'd think a person whose only usefulness is studying would be able to figure that quicker without having it to be hinted at him by some old geezer. Its like assuming a car only goes a 100mph or 0.
>Stop speed reading. Fuck you i'll read however fast i want
> He thought of the quirk in one way and didn't work that way. Full Cowling was mostly to address the startup time and lag between attacks anyway - the actual effect on bone breaking came from learning to put the brakes on.
He should've been able to this much quicker honestly,
Ryder Brown
Asta is great and not a Mary Sue, but it needs to be understood that what he was doing was pointless based on the information he had at the time. He was putting on muscle to compete with something muscle alone could never measure up to. It's admirable, certainly, to have the kind of spirit he has and not give up, but we can't pretend what he was doing was exactly a smart way to prepare himself. He had absolutely no clue the grimoire would come to him and would have been fucked if it didn't just so happen to do so. But the thing is that's fine - almost every story has coincidences. It's fundamental to storytelling that things just line up perfectly sometimes, and in fact having everything be a flawlessly executed plan becomes completely unbelievable.
Deku, unlike Asta, gave up because he doesn't have a bottomless well of self-confidence. That's a weaker thing to do, but arguably smarter. But what really matters is that it's a human thing to do. Deku's story is about someone who gave up being encouraged to try - being given the tools necessary to try. It's a fundamentally compelling story, and the entire point is that he, a demoralized weakling, has the potential to become strong. In turn Asta is about self-determination and making the most out of opportunities.
Their both great, but despite superficial similarities they're not the same type of protagonist. Their themes and stories are different, but not opposed - more like complementary.
John James
>poor man's OPM >poo man's Berserk
Angel Moore
I find it bullshit how you need to have a quirk to become a hero considering a lot of heroes have quirks that doesn't enhance their physical abilities yet can still fight well without relying on their quirk too much.
Evan Moore
>You'd think a person whose only usefulness is studying would be able to figure that quicker without having it to be hinted at him by some old geezer. Its like assuming a car only goes a 100mph or 0. Once again he was working on power control ever since the entrance exam when All Might explained why his limbs broke. That's where the microwave came from. It was just hard to visualize. Try imagining controlling an entirely new limb - it's like that.
>Kind of retarded for an "intelligent kid" His strongest and most prominent examples of combat were Bakugou and All Might - the both of whom almost exclusively fight using their hands. He was too busy working on not exploding his limbs to think about fighting style so until that moment it was a matter of changing his quirk application rather than his approach to combat - which is pretty damn reasonable considering all his problems up until then came from regulating his quirk.
>He should've been able to this much quicker honestly He didn't even know it was a problem until Gran Torino pointed it out. He figured it out the very next day. Not a bad turnaround for completely changing your fundamental perception of how to use a part of your body.
Jordan Anderson
Okey. I'll give BC a try. Manga or anime?
Charles Stewart
manga
Hunter Jenkins
Asta and Deku have differing levels of urgency due to their upbringing and environment. Deku has options outside of being a superhero because society doesn't revolve solely on quirks to work. He knew he has options, but desperately needed closure on his dream of being a superhero - so he applied to UA. He didn't train because he knew the end result and expected to fail so he could finally move on to a more realistic future. You can call it lazy or pathetic, but he did what he did just to let shit go. Asta has no option but to train. Even if there is no guarantee it would do anything to help him , he did it because improving his normal body was the only thing he could do to better himself. He lives in bum-fuck nowhere, with no access to a proper education, no mana in a world where everything is done efficiently through magic, and a lowly status as an orphan from a poor church. Yeah, he got real lucky he got that anti-magic, but then again luck is one part of the 5 clover grimoire.
Aaron Garcia
I don't think the majority of the shonenfags on this board even know what Dr. Slump is.
Nicholas Wood
>Berserk You mean the moe rpg with generic fantasy races and teamwork?
Isaiah Allen
That applies to people outside of Yea Forums as well.
Tyler Rogers
I think it's a tesitment to how shitty the arguments pitting them against each other are that after this entire thread there's still a totally different way to refute them. This is absolutely true of their scenarios. Deku is chasing a dream that he can live without - he has other options and potential talents - but as a peasant Asta literally has no upward mobility save through becoming a magic knight. He could be a damn good farmer, but that's about it.
Daniel Sanders
Fucking THIS. Why is this so fucking hard for anons to grasp? It's not like this shit is complicated or that hard to grasp wtf
Camden Martin
Because they want the same archetype
Ian Green
>seriously using the "popularity" argument here Full reddit.
Jaxson Rodriguez
Thank you, for being a smart post among this cesspool of shitposts.
Because Deku is a self-insert for the audience's superhero fantasy.
Connor Hughes
>The very first issue shows Deku doing something none of the other heroes were brave enough to do And that's just bullshit. Taking a shit on the other heroes to show the poor widdle MC is more deserving of the title of "hero" than anyone else by virtue of doing something that is expected of them (for a career, at that!)
That's what the critics are getting at, underneath all the sentimentality is a narcissist entitlement. "The world has 'wronged' me for not giving me what I want despite how 'deserving' I am, so create some convoluted scenario to set things 'right'". It's the stuff of wish fulfillment.
>And that's just bullshit. Taking a shit on the other heroes to show the poor widdle MC is more deserving of the title of "hero" than anyone else by virtue of doing something that is expected of them (for a career, at that!)
Yeah, it's kind of the point of the scene and the main crux of the conflict in BNHA. That plenty heroes despite their powers are super complacent to sit on their ass when the going actually gets tough because most aren't all that motivated by altruism but fame, fortune, andd whatnot and have been spoiled by a society of super powers they expect someone with the right powers for the job to show up rather than put themselves at risk when they have the disadvantage. Someone without powers rushing in to save someone else with no regard for their own life and truly selfless reason - 'you look like you needed help' is always going to be more deserving of the title of hero than people who just sit back and twiddle their thumbs. That's actually a good albeit basic moral.
>That's what the critics are getting at, underneath all the sentimentality is a narcissist entitlement. "The world has 'wronged' me for not giving me what I want despite how 'deserving' I am, so create some convoluted scenario to set things 'right'". It's the stuff of wish fulfillment. Literally nothing in the story is saying this. You'd have to looking for things that aren't there to actually be taking events in the story this cynically when Deku constantly feels undeserving of inheriting OFA. Even when he puts ungodly amount of effort into mastering it, unlike All Might who was a natural with it btw, never once does he feel like he deserves it despite this fact. This argument also falls apart when characters like Shinso exist who weren't blessed with the chance Deku was and suffered for years and still struggle because of it. Go back and re-read it without the cynicism shades on.
Mason Bailey
>Yeah, it's kind of the point of the scene and the main crux of the conflict in BNHA and blah blah BNHA is trash and that has been done better elsewhere without the vapid wish fulfillment beats, like the pic related. >Literally nothing in the story is saying this. Of course nothing "in the story" itself says this, dumbass. It's going to suggest otherwise, like any formulaic garbage will. It simply lacks the self-awareness to see that it does. Just as you lack the ability to see it does, what you call "cynicism" and without which allows you to blissfully eat this trash straight up and mindlessly defend it using its own bullshit points like a good drone.
Juan Wilson
>BNHA is trash and that has been done better elsewhere without the vapid wish fulfillment beats, like the pic related. One Punch man is literally a joke and takes nothing seriously and rarely has anything of substance to say beyond 'live life how you want, don't care what society thinks of you' which isn't bad but it's not even close to being a good comparison to a show that tackles the issues more seriously and with a much more nuanced methodology. Not exactly complex or masterfully written by any means but with much more perspective than main overpowered bald guy is right about literally everything and can never be wrong ever.
>Of course nothing "in the story" itself says this, dumbass. It's going to suggest otherwise, like any formulaic garbage will. It simply lacks the self-awareness to see that it does. Just as you lack the ability to see it does, what you call "cynicism" and without which allows you to blissfully eat this trash straight up and mindlessly defend it using its own bullshit points like a good drone. So you have no real argument, then? All I'm hearing from you is the typical ' waah the story didn't do what I wanted it to do in the way I wanted to so it's bad and anyone who sees any good in it is stupid because I'm just so smart and everyone is a dumb drone riding the hype'. You sound like a damned child. Maybe if you got some perspective and stopped regurgitating the same shitty non-arguments that constantly get btfo or made actual, valid that have been written by much more intelligent anons that actually know what the hell they're talking about I would take you say more seriously. It's ironic you can even complain about a lack of self-awareness when you clearly have none. I'm done here. Have yourself a good ignorance circlejerk with the rest of the shitters.
They are not good enough to be a poor man's anything.
Nolan Howard
>A well written way to justify and overpowered ability. WHAT? He worked out so his magic he got works out perfectly That is the most retarded way to write it Should've gone the berserk route and given him the same power >Then you have Deku. People in his verse like Stain and Eraserhead exist. Two people with quirks who worked their entire fighting style around quirks and both of which loose against little kids?
Fucking hell. This has to be a false-flag. I have been to BC threads. The fanbase is not as retarded as you Its obvious you are a bnhafag trying to make BCfags look retarded.
Andrew Collins
>A well written way to justify and overpowered ability.
I've never thought that one day I will see people calling the "If I only train hard enough, a miracle that will negate my utterly crippling disablity will occur" bullshit well-written. Sheer number of anons who think that banging your head against the wall is something admirable is also suprising.
>Their quirks don't amp their physical abilities at all.
Every single quirk confers a degree of superhuman physical abilities.
>Why did he sit in his room crying waiting for a hand out?
Because he had enough IQ to realize that training hard does not, in fact, undo utterly crippling disabilities.
Camden Hill
>That's what the critics are getting at, underneath all the sentimentality is a narcissist entitlement. "The world has 'wronged' me for not giving me what I want despite how 'deserving' I am, so create some convoluted scenario to set things 'right'". It's the stuff of wish fulfillment.
Why "critics" use a manga based on the the exact same scenario as a counterpoint, though?
Zachary Hill
Even so it seems that is strength training can give you abilities that rival magic, mages should do it and become twice as dangerous since then they can have super speed on top of magic.
No if mages also had super powers they would be more effective. I don't wanna argue if MHA is better I'm just saying that the way Asta becomes so powerful has shonenshit logic all over it and made me cringe especially in the cg crap pink diamond guy fight.
His whole being is the win button
Zachary Adams
>like the pic related.
Pic related was unambiguous about the fact that a hero with heroism and no power is a joke who could only accomplish anything by amuzing the villain for half a minute, until someone capable shows up. Sure, he amounted to a sad joke, instead of a funny one, but a joke nevertheless.
Dominic Mitchell
Absolutely not.
Imagine if Fairy Tail was written and drawn worse, featured flatter, less quirky, characters and leaned more on rippin off from Naruto than from One Piece. That will be quite close to Black Clover.
Jace Young
>Taking a shit on the other heroes to show the poor widdle MC is more deserving of the title of "hero" than anyone else by virtue of doing something that is expected of them It is actually a thing in real life
The whole "most heroes have a story where their legs moved first before they could think" is not something Horikoshi came up with There are studies on it >That's what the critics are getting at, underneath all the sentimentality is a narcissist entitlement. Projection. Deku was ready to give it away. Deku is the furthest from wish fullfillment. Because he never beats his bully.
