Tries to write a short comedic retelling of The Journey to The West

This.

How the hell did a guy who drew Dr Slump go on to draw Dragon Ball? Toriyama set a bench mark for dynamic fighting panels which influences artists to this day. But frustratingly a lot of them still don't get right.

Buddhists are always doing boring and vain shit so that doesn’t surprise me

Based

Unironically by watching a lot of Jackie Chan movies

If Dragon Ball came out today the entire manga industry it would be releasing into would be completely different because every single Shonen manga released post Dragon Ball is in some way a response to it.

>How the hell did a guy who drew Dr Slump go on to draw Dragon Ball?
IIRC, the editor suggested the first World Tournament because a "tournament arc" from Dr Slump was one of the most popular parts of the manga

This. And daily reminder hokuto no ken isnt the father of battle shounen

He was just that much of a chad manga artist.

This. It was actually Kinnikuman.

No Toriyama actually thought about how to make it more popular and settled for a tournament arc

>Up until theTenka’ichi Budōkaibegan, the series hadn’t been all that popular. At the time, Torishima-santold me “your protagonist is rather plain. That’s why it’s not popular”. Personally, since I was doing a fighting story for this series, I had intentionally made the protagonist’s clothing excessively plain. So this annoyed me, but then I figured it out. “Well, let’s increase its popularity” I thought. When I had designed Goku’s character, the words that best represented him were “I want to become strong”. So I thought I’d bring that to the front. Even during “Dr. Slump“, mini-events and tournament-like things such as the Penguin Village Grand Prix had been amazingly popular. So I’d simply make the story into a tournament format. From there theTenka’ichi Budōkaiwas born. I temporarily withdrew the other characters besides Goku, brought back Kame-Sen’nin, and added Kuririn as a new character. From there it got popular before I knew it.
So it was because of Dr. Slump torunament, but it wasnt his editors idea.

>If Toriyama had his way, DB would have ended abruptly, not spawning the multimillion dollar franchise it is now.
>Would have had a unremarkable career making short stories in the early 90s before getting the boot.
>Dragon Quest and Chrono Trigger would never get made either

Editor-san did nothing wrong

It's wasn't just because of the Dr. Slump stuff but yeah you were correct. It's weird hearing that Toriyama used to be proactive

Because they aren't as influenced by other media, just copy off other mangaka.

>comedic retelling of The Journey to The West
Journey to the West is already comedic though.

This, DG is actually more serious since DG is less satirical and farcical.

Are we just going to forget about Ring ni Kakero?

Journey to the west is a very long story

You don't need massive success to have a satisfying life.

Dragon ball fucked Toriyama's passion for vehicles.
Its so damn clear that the guy loves to design and draw them, instead of two blonde ripped guys beating each other.
You can see how the world of DB is reliant on these said vehicles, like the capsules too, these outland-ish wonderful landscapes and how frequently are they used in early stages of DB, then it became a powerlevelfast, especially around cell it was clear that it entered to the "what the fuck do we do now?" stage. Its a fucking mess, just like Buu.
All he had was one page where could actually draw what he wanted. He could have gone this way, but its obvious DB would nowhere be as popular if he did that. Maybe we could have a fantasy Mad Max, we will never know.

Kinnikuman was also mostly a gag mango before the first tournament Arc.

It's depressing how right you are. And he not only had a passion for drawing vehicles, but robots and machines in general. Even if DB had never taken off, who knows what he might have made instead.

Dr Slump especially shows how much he just wants to draw robotics and vehicles instead of saiyans. This is why I don't like how DB turned out, because the Earth itself was interesting, you wanted to see it what it has to offer. This galactic adventure is so damn unnecessary when Earth itself in the DB universe is interesting enough, but nah we have to go full retard with space. This "space era" thing would be fine, if it wasn't so forced that DB's Earth and the setting exhausted itself. "We don't have any idea how continue, lets pull the space/time/dimension travel card, because... reasons whatever". Its one of the shittiest excuse for writing, just like "lol I have amnesia".

A person can like to draw more than one thing, I dunno why you think him drawing anything other than machinery was fucking torture for him, that's really nonsensical. You're unironically just projecting here.
Just because you hate dragonball doesn't mean Toriyama did.

>doesn't mean Toriyama did.
user it was clear as fuck he wanted to end it. In Cell saga it was damn obvious.

I love toriyama but he's a hack many ways

He already had a big hit with Dr. Slump before.
Toriyama intended for it to only run for about a year but clearly Torishima had other plans.

Attached: Torishima.png (907x269, 181K)

Retarded zoomer.

>How the hell did a guy who drew Dr Slump go on to draw Dragon Ball?
Nigger did you even read Dr. Slump?
There's a reason that shit was a huge hit. The talent was there from the beginning. The paneling in that series was god-tier too as was the art.

>How the hell did a guy who drew Dr Slump go on to draw Dragon Ball?

You fucking shut your mouth. Dr Slump is Toriyama's finest work. Above DB.

Nigger what the fuck are you talking about?
Dr. Slump alone was a bigger hit than 99% of manga out there.

Shit did like close to 2 million copies per volumes on average and the Anime is in like the top 3 of all-time when it comes to TV ratings.

Toriyama was HUGE in Japan even before DB.
DB just turned his popularity from Huge to God-like.

DB just went on too long.
It went on so damn long that Toriyama forgot that the series was supposed to be about the Dragon Balls and not generic transformations and big villains.

Should have stopped after Freeza.
Android/Cell saga was soooo bad.

>This is why I don't like how DB turned out
We still got like 300+ god-tier chapters out of it.
I think you're overplaying the whole vehicle bit a little bit too much.

>We still got like 300+ god-tier chapters out of it.
Hell fucking no. What the fuck is so good about cell and buu, especially buu is so damn stretched that it just reeks from that they guy wanted to finish it so he can do anything else but dragon ball. He would rather play dragon quest too and design monsters than draw DB for jump.
In Cell you got this mish-mash of villains because the fans and editors demanded other shit what Toriyama had in mind. I wouldn't be even surprised if he was tired of Goku itself and wanted to end his adventure, hence so many times he put Gohan in spotlight, but everyone else wanted Goku.
What he loves is robotics, vehicles and monster design, which also degraded over dragon ball. Don't be stupid user, his avatar is a damn robot too.

>was the first anime everyone in the western world got
Just talk about your shitty burgerland, faggot.

Oh please. Manga industry alway pumps out one-hit wonders that quickly fade into obscurity. Would a unmotivated Toriyama with no desire to push Dragon Ball beyond its first arc make an multimillion dollar franchise on his own? Or get the international fame and recognition he currently has just for being known as the Dr. Slump guy 35 years after the manga ended? I doubt it.

>What the fuck is so good about cell and buu
Nothing?
I said we got 300+ god-tier chapters out of Dragon Ball.
I was counting from chapter 1 to end of Freeza.

Frieza arc should've been the last one. WIth Goku and Vegeta dying.

>Manga industry alway pumps out one-hit wonders that quickly fade into obscurity.
Which has nothing to do with what we're discussing here whatsoever.

Even if he was a one-hit wonder he'd still be one of the most famous one-hit wonders out there. Like I said Dr. Slump anime has the 3rd highest TV Rating of ALL TIME for an anime.

>Would a unmotivated Toriyama with no desire to push Dragon Ball beyond its first arc make an multimillion dollar franchise on his own?
This is what OP was even talking about in the first place. Toriyama never even thought of DB becoming the most popular manga series ever.
Hell the only reason why he kept continuing is because it got too popular and JUMP kept making him continue as well as he felt like he couldn't let down the fans.

As for motivation, Toriyama probably would never have become famous if it wasn't for his hard ass editor Torishima who kept him from being lazy.

Prime Toriyama + Motivation is a powerful combo.
If DB hadn't tired him so much I have no doubt he would be able to make another popular series. All of his oneshots and short series since then have been pretty good at the least.

No, DB was only great until Goku defeated Piccolo. After Raditz showed up it became another generic battle shounen.

DB is basically a ripoff of Kinnikuman after all.

His involvement with Dragon Quest was because of Dr. Slump success not Dragon Ball.
People act like Dr. Slump was some random manga when in reality it was a huge hit.

I dunno about that. Saiyans, and Freeza both feels weird. Its like Toriyama really wanted to end Goku's career, put Gohan on pedestal have a few chapters then quit DB once for all. Its not entirely his fault, because Dragon ball printed money, so you have to be a complete idiot not to milk this chance, also to please fans. Its lost its charm. There is also why young adult Goku feels like an entirely different person from adult Goku.

yep, Toriyama was prone to become lazy and unmotivated as fuck when it came to dragon ball. He rather played Dragon quest than draw DB. In Cell saga it was the most obvious that editors took complete rule over his work.

>WIth Goku and Vegeta dying.
>Vegeta dying
Yes since Vegeta became pathetic afterwards. He was nothing like the original Vegeta we oldfags all knew and loved.

>Goku dying
Nah, not Goku.
It'd be cool if Goku came back to Earth and going around the world while riding in his comfy kintoun with Gohan searching for his Grandpa's 4-star Dragon Ball while Bulma chases after him with some sort of flying jet(Krillin, Yamcha, Puar, Oolong are all along the ride) riding on it after Goku.

Piccolo being badass and looking from the distance. Goku flying by Kame House and Roshi and Lunch noticing him, flying around through those mountains where Tenshinahan and Chaozu train/live in and also them noticing him and basically flying all around the world which gives us an excuse to show him greeting all of the DB characters throughout the series.

That would have been such a great ending.

>After Raditz showed up it became another generic battle shounen.
Are you retarded?
There was no such a thing as a battle shonen back then. DB invented it.

>Muh Kinnikuman
>Muh Hokuto no Ken
Fuck off.
Kinnikuman was basically a wrestling manga.
Hokuto no Ken was just generic brawling.

DB was GREAT until Freeza died.
After that it lost the plot.

Saiyen/Freeza are some of the best arcs

>Toriyama was prone to become lazy and unmotivated as fuck when it came to dragon ball.
More like in general. He wanted to quit Dr. Slump after working on it for like 6 month.

>He rather played Dragon quest than draw DB
Source on this?
I thought that was Togashi.
Though Toriyama really regrets having agreed to do DQ since he basically got stuck with the job now for 30 years lol.

>In Cell saga it was the most obvious that editors took complete rule over his work.
Funny thing is that Torishima was no longer his editor and he called him to complain about the villains several times.

I remember him also saying...I believe it was very recent...that DB should have stopped after Freeza because according to him "when you're fighting old geezers and young ladies you know you've ran out of ideas".

Really though it's not just the editors fault. He simply lost steam.
He forgot the most important concept of the series which are the Dragon Balls themselves.
Namek/Freeza saga worked so well because the plot was based around them.

And let's not mention what he did to the characters(especially Krillin).

>Saiyans, and Freeza both feels weird.
Not any weirder than any of the species found in the first half of DB.
You should re-read/re-watch DB sometimes.

The whole retcon with Goku's character was bullshit of course but you know, Toriyama never gave a shit about that sort of shit.

asuras wrath is a lot more accurate to the myth then you'd think

>Saiyan
not that great, but pretty solid overall
>freeza
fuck no

funny since you forgot best girl, also did Toriyama

Attached: miss me yet.jpg (600x430, 28K)

there wouldnt be a today without dragon ball

Buu saga is fucking great especially if you want to believe that Toriyama was a simple man that loved early dragonball and grew tired of it after that.
Buu Saga is the first time the series is like early dragon ball since the before the King Piccolo saga, the main villain is literally a poop on a stick that turns people into food. It even brings back the World Martial Arts Tournament and announcer.
I think Cell saga was so shit and tiring for him, especially with all the shit about his editors giving him a hard time then, that he decided to actually do something he liked and that was good so we got the Buu saga.