How come no battle shounen authors are creative and just make their characters go
>he can punch, but punch really hard!
>he can touch everything he explodes!
Meanwhile Togashi is exploring quantum physics and pouring his heart and soul into his characters.
How the fuck does he do it??
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>King Crimson rip off is quantum physics
Togashi must be really tired. Give the man another year to release 1 more chapter.
Togashi uncertainty principle: observing the date of the next chapter release changes it.
And people call the Izanami chapter to be bullshit.
This chart is awful.
They all use creative powers, that’s what makes shounen different from superhero comics. Bleach and One Piece are full of bizarre creative powers, to say nothing JoJo (Naruto is pretty meh)
King Crimson had no consistent rules
Powers are the least interesting part of shonen mango.
chinese knockoff plz
it's shonen trash no one cares
Typical huntard talking about shit he doesn't know about
Why does the chart make it far more confusing than it actually is
Ummmmm yeah you don't read comic books huh
Based, and also the way abilities and Nen are deeply incorportated into the narrative is not something you see in other Shounen or literally any other show, for exemple I love JoJo but sometimes the antagonist just shows up and starts explaining his ability to the enemy before fighting, that's just retarded.
Complexity for complexity sake is pointless. What you really want is for abilitys that are simple in concept but have a lot of depth to them.
it has though
>it just works
You literally just described Nen perfectly, the ability can be explained in one/a few sentences, and if you want to go deeper you can write pages about that same ability.
The ability you see here is very simple, He closes his eyes, activates Zetsu (Aura nullification aka Hiding presence in shounens), and he instantly sees 10 seconds of what's about to happen at the moment he closed his eyes, as long as the eyes are kept closed, he keeps seeing 10 seconds ahead of the current timeline, when his eyes are open, everything happens just like he perceived in his future premonition however he's the only one who can act outside of the premonition and alter the present timeline.
It's like King Crimson but makes more sense.
A better question would be why are hunterfags such insufferable faggots?
Why does he need such a retarded ass infographic instead of just going "I can see ten seconds into the future"?
Based
No, thats just King Crimson.
Thinking back on it, Greed Island was a pretty disturbing game, since it takes place in the actual real world.
Razor said that the guys in his team were prisoners sentenced to death so they were brought to serve their sentence there, so doesn't that technically mean almost every NPC is just a prisoner who's there as a slave to Ging & co. ? otherwise I doubt they'd be willing to stick around and play a stupid game where they could get killed by players.
Greed Island was basically Ging's very own slave resort
Nope, King crimson erases time, which is a concept that doesn't make sense, people don't retain memories from the erased time or anything they experienced during it because it's gone.
Only Razor's subordinates are death row inmates, the rest of the NPCs in GI aren't real humans.
>the rest of the NPCs in GI aren't real humans
What, where is this mentioned? maybe I speedread through it, are they made of nen?
But he just copied King Crimson, but not the character.
Stands are not just powers, they are the characters soul and fighting spirit personified and are closely tied with the themes surrounding each character. They don't delve into deep mechanics because their function is not to create a Standfighting metagame. Instead the characters flaws as a person is what decides the fight and not just how "smart" they are.
Take King Crimson, Diavolos major flaw is his paranoia and his lack of empathy. He is not driven by any cause and he doesn't care or understand who he hurts. His stand reflects this by letting him skip ahead in time (removing the need for a will and a cause to make your vision reallity) and remove himself from the flow in time(detatchment from everyone else). His stand seems unbeatable because it can predict anything and it almost is, but in the end he loses because he made all the right moves but lost because he could not imagine someone sacrificing themself for others. His detatchment from humanity and eagerness is what made him lose.
At it's best a power is an extention of a character, and when you just copy an abillity it's clear that you're not creating a narrative and a character formed around it. What you can get is a very stimulating plot but you will miss out on the nuance. This to me has always been Togashis biggest flaw as an author, he is incredibly talanted when it comes to how he applies tropes and ideas, this is why HxH is one of the best Manga of all times writing wise. But he doesn't have the spark of genius that is required to create something truly unique.
While You're break down of Diavolo and the narrative place of stand abilities is correct, your post falls apart when fail to give the same credit to Togashi. I fail to see how fights occupying a different place in the story points to a lack of nuance. I'm not gonna go into a lengthy take down as I don't feel like it Im just gonna give a list of characters who satisfy your criteria for having abilities that also have thematic weight and let other hunterchads take it from there
Komugi
Netero
Chrollo
Killua
Hisoka
Kurapika
Ging
Pouf
boring
I think HxH is pretty overrated but I'm glad you guys enjoy it so much that you've built a relatively tight-knit community here around it. When you're not shitting up other series' threads, anyway.
The worst part is there are actually stands that don't have consistent rules but King Crimson is not one of them.
this, it's actually nice to see a community on Yea Forums not built around contrarianism for once and some of the memes are pretty kek-worthy
>When you're not shitting up other series' threads, anyway.
That's falseflaggers, not hunterchads
We haven't even had a chance to explore Tserriednich's character in depth like Diavolo, this shit is on Hiatus mode all the time, if anything Nen is literally the closest thing to stands you can find, a lot of stands aren't really reflections of their characters true desires and deep subconscious, this happens rarely in JoJo, in HxH the Nen power that you develop is always a reflection of yourself, the nen beasts of each Prince are their personalities personified as a guardian stand.
As an exemple Tserriednich guardian beast marks people who lie to him with her barbed tongue, the second time they lie the wound is now a large scar and the beast gives them a verbal warning, the third time they lose their humanity and turn into a mindless pawn who serves Tserriednich, this is reflected in his hate for liars but his willingness to give traitors a second chance to serve him before they completely cease to exist as a human.
Another exemple is Zhang Lei, his Nen beast is not something that will be helpful during the war of succession, it drops a coin per day and this coin can be gifted to anyone that Zhang Lei trusts which will eventually give that person an ability, the issue is that the nen beast needs a lot of time in order to create an impact, but in the long run (When Zhang Lei becomes king) it's going to be one of the strongest nen beast abilities, this is personified in the fact that he never cares about short term issues and always aims for big investements and long term dreams.
This is also a passage from the famous light novel page that Togashi is known for (pic related) and it states exactly what you think is lacking in Nen.
Fags.
Pic related?
>gif related
Not canon.
>Togashi previously wanted to write a sports shōnen with a canon gay crossdressing boy as the protagonist, but Shueisha shut him down.
>Togashi would then go on to write Yu Yu Hakusho, a hugely popular series.
>as thanks, and because Togashi had worked himself halfway to death, Shueisha allows Togashi free rein to do whatever he wants with Hunter x Hunter (hence his erratic schedules that would get any other author fired).
>Togashi also has full ownership over Hunter x Hunter, giving him absolute control over the story.
>now that he has so much power, Togashi plans on getting revenge on Shueisha for canning his gay sports manga all those decades ago by making Killua gay and they can’t stop him.
Further reasons:
>in chapter 286 (episode 121), Killua literally says he and Gon will commit "shinjū," otherwise known as "double suicide" — a term connotated with lovers.
>Togashi clearly has an interest in the "weird," as seen with Hisoka and Alluka.
>Togashi is married to Takeuchi, author of Sailor Moon — a series that features canon lesbians. In addition, the current Hunter x Hunter arc features a lesbian kiss between Morena and one of her followers.
>Yu Yu Hakusho has a gay couple: Sensui and Itsuki, showing that Togashi is willing to include gay characters and relationships in his stories.
>everything Togashi does is for a reason. When he includes scenes such as Killua's "Gon, you are light" and "shinjū,” he knows how fans will interpret them. To say otherwise implies he’s ignorant.
>to claim this is all bait is to insult Togashi, because that implies he's a hack who has to resort to the lowest form of writing: pandering. He is not that desperate.
>as seen in chapter 323 (episode 139), even Hisoka thinks Killua’s most “beloved” is Gon.
Cope.
>shonen super powers that alter or break reality in multiple different ways
>"doesn't make sense"
I'll give a detailed explanation of King Crimson anyway to take a page from Togashi's book. King Crimson has a sub-stand courtesy of the existence of Diavolo's split personality Doppio, called Epitaph. On its own Epitaph can see a few seconds into the future, using King Crimson to take advantage of that foresight, Diavolo can enter an odd state similar to time stop, resulting in some time being skipped or "erased," as you and many others put it. However, that time isn't really erased in the most literal sense, it still happens but no one barring Diavolo is aware that time was skipped, going on to act out whatever actions they had planned or were already in progress without being aware of it, hence all the confusion with stuff like Narancia swiping some of Fugo's food without him realizing it. Diavolo also cannot affect anything during his time skip and can only reposition himself to avoid danger and assume an advantageous position. All of his attacks happen at the end of his ability, which is why no one ever just has a hole in their chest all of a sudden: you always see the killing blow.
tl;dr Epitaph sees the future, King Crimson can erase that time from people's memories barring his own and is the only one able to act and remember his actions, though he cannot physically interact with anything.
It didn't make much sense to me when I read the manga 3 years ago, it was actually so badly explained that translators had to include several extra pages of explanation that they themselves made in several chapters, I'm not saying it couldn't make sense if it's well explained, I'm just saying the way it was introduced in the manga was poorly done.
That was the fault of the translators themselves.
>I can see 10 seconds of the future in an instant if I close my eyes
>I can extend this future vision by a second for every second I keep my eyes closed (1 second eyes closed = 11 seconds of foresight)
>I cast the last 10 seconds of my future vision as an illusion on others when I open my eyes
This chart is needlessly confusing and should have been handled with more expository dialogue.
I probably didn't get my point across, it's not that the abillities don't reflect the user, they obviously do, even more directly than in JoJo if we look at Kurapika. But they are not as nuanced, they don't carry the flaws in their mindset over into how they are used and the story is not built around them. They still have a much more grounded usage. For exemple, a stand would never exist with a specific person or reasoning in mind for why it exists. They are a general summation of a characters themes and not a manifestation of a major trait or wish.
HxH is obviously not the same type of story, and Nen isn't Stands. The way HxH is written is fundementally different from Jojo in that Jojo is borderline allegorical and surrealist while HxH is more grounded in logic.
Yeah that might be why aswell, nevertheless, a very complicated ability like King Crimson (or Tserriednich) was an issue while being introduced because the explanation was kept to a minimum while in Tserr's case he had just acquired the ability 2 minutes ago which is why he is overexplaining and trying to understand what just transpired, giving his "overexplanation and analysis" an actual narrative basis of trying to understand it himself, this wouldn't make much sense if it happened in JoJo because Diavolo already has his stand long before the events of Golden Wind, overexplaining it featuring Diavolo would be the author trying too hard, and to me this is the main difference between the way these two were introduced.
Good point, I agree with most of it.
>How the fuck does he do it??
By taking off for months at a time, even over a year. Other manga artists don't have that freedom, and have to be working on the script weekly with a grueling schedule, and only occasionally getting a 1 week break.
OH NO JOJOBROS, WHAT DO WE TELL HIM? H-HE'S COMPLETELY WRONG, R-RIGHT?
Bruno seeing himself?
>How come no battle shounen authors are creative and just make their characters go
You have to read more manga user.
>They are a general summation of a characters themes and not a manifestation of a major trait or wish.
That's not true though from part to part. Oyekomova was a terrorist bomber who developed the ability to make bombs after coming to America. Civil War was born from it's users regrets and is tied to a physical location that has significance to it. Requeim stands also seem to be created with the immediate desire of the user in mind. And stands like Killer Queen are also directly reflective of the users mindset. Even in Jojo there are a lot of stands that are both a thematic ability but also a manifestation of what that character wants, although from arc to arc there are few people you can hammer that latter portion onto.
As for nen abilities having the flaws of the user; Kurapika chose chains because of his desire to both capture others but also because he himself is "chained down" by his own desire for revenge. There aren't many abilities that are flawed in the way you describe but nen users like Kastro, Shoot, Welfin, Youpi, and some of the Succession war abilities like Sale-Sale's guardian spirit do accomplish to show how these abilities can show the wrong mindset when creating an ability can bite the creator in the ass.
I do agree with your general impression, HxH is written to be more rule intensive and consistent while Jojo is less constricted because Araki likes to add whatever he likes and his rules change from part to part.
This post is very based.
>when people think king crimson's ability was intentional
Lmaooooooooooo jojobrainlets
SBR is interesting, Stands don't follow the old conventions when it comes to the devils palm. Those stands are more situational and strange, like the boom boom family having a shared stand. And like how Diego could get Scary monsters but we see later that his stand would still have been the World. That is an effect of the corpse which has it's own rules and themes from the arrows. This different system also coincides with a more plot focused part which makes sense.
As for Killer Queen, it very much takes into account the entire character and bites the dust cements it. Kira was always contradictory by nature, he wanted to not be bothered by others but that meant killing others, he pretended to be quiet and unremarkable but his stand used bombs. Bites the dust, while fitting into what he wanted at the time, also works for his characters pride. His additional confidence in his abillity made him show his true nature in public, he started acting alpha and dressing up. Eventually this is what lead Josuke to notice him, not by figuring anything out, but just because Kira wasn't careful.
>That is an effect of the corpse which has it's own rules and themes from the arrows. This different system also coincides with a more plot focused part which makes sense.
Yeah, it's the part with the most concentration of "stands that are directly reflective of the users mindset and will" But you still have stand users like Ringo Roundroad, Blackmore, Tubular Bells, etc.
Ringo didn't get Mandom because he had a special fixation on 6 seconds, but the story uses this ability to create an obstacle that has to be killed to proceed and uses this to test Gyro. And it also lets Ringo be this weirdly honorable gunslinger who hates the concept of a tie, but also doesn't run away from death in battle which is the thematic battle at play and winds up losing because he in some way betrayed his own principles by trying to defend himself and go for a delayed kill which is why Johnny and Hotpants failed to take him out the first time.
I think Mandom is one of the better bridges between the two concepts, it fits into his character really well but is also something "given" to him. Like most other characters in Part 7 like Oyecomova he sees his stand as a confirmation that his ideal is true. He has no goals or motivations beyond recreating his origin, and as such he has the abillity to perfectly engineer reallity to fullfil his wish but only what has already happened. He only lives for the past and his abillity reflects that well.
SBR has a more "minor" stand users than ever before aswell, characters like Mike O (tubular bells) and Chocolate disco never get any real focus or backstory. Framing part 7 stands as "tests" is a really good way of putting it, the stands bring out elements of a character and give them a second chance. When you look at the race, the body and Johnnys character arc it's clear that one of the themes throughout the part is that of growth and personal conviction.
In previous parts there was always one side instigating and the other defending or retaliating. But in SBR there is no real "enemy", everyone is just chasing opportunity which is why the American setting is so fitting. True mans world is to SBR what Abbachios death is to VA. We see that the key to victory is to never compromise or doubt which comes back in the Valentine fight. Both Gyro and Valentine failed in this regard, Gyro because of his compassion, and Valentine because of his hypocrisy.
How do you unintentionally create an ability?
Cringe. People enjoy reading that shit?