Devilman Crybaby

lol

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quirky, pseudo artsy usual yuasa stuff
good OST, decent production, kinda okay script
6/10 fun but would not watch again

Based

Ignore how Crybaby literally mades up like 90% of the story.

I liked it, though they could show a little more of the final war instead of the skipping straight to the finale
music was really good

Left looks 10 times better faggot.

The intro sequence is pure kino. And that Kenji Kawai OST is majestic af.

youtube.com/watch?v=bAWczh2fxPk

Bait thread.
But, yeah, it was quite bad overall.
More so if you're a fan of the franchise.

I enjoyed it

not really right is using its medium much more effective

it was ok. fluid animation but it was really sloppy. script was meh

Garbage. 8/10

Overrated, but still cool

If you unironically think it's garbage you are too stupid to enjoy anime.

you keep posting this not realizing everyone can see how shitty crybaby looks

I know everyone hates new things but I loved it and think people will look back on it extremely positively in a decade once the rose colored glasses kick in.

>people will look back on it extremely positively in a decade once the rose colored glasses kick in.
Actually, no. It will pretty much be the other way around: All those Netflix teens will have forgottten it (most already have, which is why you only find very few who still defend it nowadays) in a few years, and those who really matter when it comes to Nagai adaptaions (Nagai fans) will always consider it the bad adaptation it is.
The only ones who could try to hold its "reputation" up are Yuasafags, and they will be just as aggressive about it as they are now, but they won't really rate it above anything else Yuasa made.

The old one looks so bad.

>The old one looks so bad.
>t. brainlet Yuasashitter

dropped it when they started rapping, changing the time period was a terrible choice. The animation and artstyle are shit in comparison to the OVA's too

I've seen better directed shows in the sameyear.

And you keep seething and replying every time, even to the other people who obviously agree that Crybaby looks better Literally obsessed.

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I've seen better directed

a) series in the same month.
b) Devilman adaptations.
c) Nagai adaptaions in 2018.
d) things by Yuasa.
e) so-called "Netflix anime".

Crybaby was also extremely badly written and slopily animated. It fails in every regard, excluding the OST, which was solid.

Based

cherrypicked images prove nothing, Yuasashitter

>Literally obsessed.
You express yourself like a troll. Literally.

If you go around hating on a superior anime, that was not only animated better and, believe it or not, had shading and depth of field, but also was much better directed and had a better understanding of the thing it tried to adapt - well, don't be surprised when people call you out for being a Yuasa fanboy.

>people
And for "people" you mean yourself, every time, by your own admission. If this isn't obsession, I don't know how to call it.

>And for "people" you mean yourself, every time, by your own admission.
No. I mean a lot of people. In this thread alone.
Like that other guy you quoted.
But you're probably suggesting that I'm just "samefagging", right? That's usually what shitposters like you do.

we got a yuasa schizo here

Even the other guy admitted that the "cherrypicked" screeshot looked better, sorry!

No I didn't, comparing a still to a frame proves that you're not only a schizo but a retard too

I've only seen crybaby. The story was pretty shit. Did they fucked it up or the old one has same shitty writing?

>backpedalling
Ooof, embarassing.

Worse.

the fact you think yashit looks better than the ovas is embarassing, schizo

It you’re a plotfag than even the 10/10 manga wont do it for you, but it’s definitely better than Crybaby.

Are you having a stroke?

Acutally, no, it doesn't. Look at the detail of the background, the grass, the sky. And the amount of shading.
The Crybaby screencap here ( ) only looks good in comparison to other Crybaby screencaps. It still isn't shaded properly, but it has a cheap digital lighting effect applied.

Yes

The duality of Devilman

>Did they fucked it up
Pretty much so, yes. They didn't understand one thing about the manga, ruined multiple characters, character arcs and relationships. They copied plot points in a non-consistent fashion that pretty much destroyed all underlying themes. They dumbed down all themes and messages that were still left after that and added lots of unnecessary teen drama (Dawson's Creek style).

It is a good story told poorly, and it also has one of the most screwed up plot threads have ever seen.
That whole business with the father and the demon kid is some real psychological horror shit.

50 posts in and no best girl.

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She killed her family man.

>best girl
Well, it's not as if she had any serious competition in that regard.

>donkey noises

and?

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Father-child scene was the best in the series. Except how it ends, shitty soldiers interference ruined it.

I like her better in fanart. Crybaby's stlye is just so horribly bland and ugly. But she has a good character design.

Attached: devilman crybaby 3.jpg (1280x720, 67K)

How can anyone even like the devilman? Putting style and animation aside that some liked some didnt.
Entire plot thrown about devilman helping other devilman/humans out of the window to satisfy this irrelevant blond characters plot. It was obv from ep1 that he will turn against devilman/use him. Was the ending supposes be shocking and amazing? I felt offended.
Also every character was a disgusting degenerate except few arguably.
Great op tho.

Why would allow yourself to be told a story if you dont care about plot?

And im referring to crybaby. Maybe manga was well written and had slightly better characters and their development but dont think it would elevate shit for me to at least a 5/10

"Plotfag" is just a buzzword that's supposed to trigger you, and apparently used to describe people who disregard everything but plot.

Usually, Nagai's manga (including Devilman) have a pretty well thought-out plot with very distinct strong themes, but people who are used to Yuasa and other directors/writers who make their plots unncessarily obscure and bloated, often ridicule the relative "simplicity" (straightforwardness) with which Nagai tells it.

Does that relate to monogatari being called "deep" or "pretentious"?

But Crybaby's message was much more in your face that that of the original

No

>muh shitty 80s OVAs that adapt less of the story than Crybaby did even with its changes
OVAfags need to kill themselves.

what it adapted it adapted better than crybaby
quality>quantity

>Does that relate to monogatari being called "deep" or "pretentious"?
Not necessarily, but it depends on how different people use that word.

>But Crybaby's message was much more in your face that that of the original
Yes. It indeed was. Because Yuasa dumbed the plot and, more importantly, its themes, down, all the while filling the story up with unnecessary details and drama that contributed nothing and meant nothing.

Nagai: Simple plot structure, easy to grasp characters and events. Provides complex themes that are left somewhat open to interpretation.
Yuasa: Convoluted plot sturcture, hard to filter out what's relevant and what's just flavour. Next to no themes and very simplistic messages.

Watchable but inferior to the manga.
Sex felt gratuitous, tryhard and forced. Lady has a lot of gratuitous tits and rape too but the original didn't.
Ryo's fantastic monologue at the end was ruined too.

The OVA's version of the turtle guy with the heads on his shell was worse than both the manga and Crybaby's. Not to mention it was the one that turned the person Akira knew from it from the little girl to his mom, which probably inspired Crybaby's version as well. It also ruined the entire opening where Akira meets Ryo. Crybaby struck me as its own thing while the OVAs were just shitty adaptations with none of their own merit.

Why is the art so fucking shit?

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>Crybaby struck me as its own thing while the OVAs were just shitty adaptations with none of their own merit.
What was Crybaby's "merit" then?

Cost-cutting. Yuasa's fan's will tell you it's his "style", but his style is ultimately the cheapest to produce in the whole industry: No shading, no details, flat colours, lots of motions made up of repeated frames, no clear direction in the motions, hyperfluidity (no weight), frequent rotoscoping, no dynamic interframing, etc.

Except that most Yuasa fans think that it's a big downgrade from his other works.

Novel. Ecstatic. Heartbreaking. Kino.

Well, it arguably is worse than his other works, but his style, and its cheapness, is the same it has always been.

>rotoscoping is bad
>animation being fluid is only bad in some cases but nobody can ever explain where they draw the line between good animation and "hyperfluidity" (which I assume is another word for "forced animation"
Crybaby's animation wasn't even overly fluid. And I've seen other people use it as an example of "limited animation" which is the new animation related buzzword. Nobody knows what the fuck they want or at least nobody can put it into words without using meaningless buzzwords. At a point good animation is too good that it's actually bad and people will defend barely any animation existing while in other cases something is criticized for not being animated enough.

Why aren't they emulating his style faithfully?

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There's an overwhelming amount of soul in that image, user.

Was it Yuasa or Okouchi who thought that making the best character of the manga a generic yandere was a good idea?

>Crybaby's animation wasn't even overly fluid.
Yes, it was. Not always and everywhere, but at parts, it was excessively hyperfluid. Check out most of this scene, especially the "ass-shaking":
sakugabooru.com/post/show/43325

Or whatever this is:
sakugabooru.com/post/show/43282

At other moments, it was stiff and jittery, often comically so in suituations that were supposed to be emotional:
sakugabooru.com/post/show/43284

>Nobody knows what the fuck they want
How about an anime that looks natural, that doesn't have highly erratic movement all the time and just goes back and forth between two or three frames for seconds, then rapidly changes to a different pose, does the same, changes, rinse and repeat?
How about an anime that actually shades and uses colour variation, dynamic lighting and stuff like that?

>At a point good animation is too good that it's actually bad
What kind of memery is this? No, good animation is good, mostly because it doesn't stand out for what it does or doesn't do. Bad animation is easy to spot because, in this case, it looks like spastic movements, circular movements and undefined blobs of colour moving in an undefined fashion. It's not always overdone in the same way because it simply is cheap and sloppy.

>Why aren't they emulating his style faithfully?
Because his style works in manga, not in animation.

"Natural" movement is really subdued and would be criticized as shitty animation because there wouldn't be enough movement. People aren't statues even when standing still either but for instance I've had people say Houseki no Kuni is overanimated because it has characters moving around a bit and fidgeting at times. Like I said, the whole discussion about what counts as good or bad animation contradicts itself all the time. And I know I'm talking about different people but the fact that one person says something is good while someone else calls it bad and there's never any agreement just shows how poor the understanding of what goes into animation is. It doesn't help that you use terms like hyperfluidity and other terms like forced animation and limited animation are thrown around all the time. Just for a baseline what is something you consider actually well animated?

>Ryo's fantastic monologue
Where would someone find this?

this is one of the scenes in crybaby that was pretty great. they botched the scene where miki actually gets murdered though, along with many, many others. you'd think a yuasa anime would be perfect place to find imagery like this

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the story was all over the place and nothing that happened made fucking sense past episode like 4. I'm really hoping this comes out as another universe reset by god to punish Satan again, otherwise if this ends up actually being the remake of the original its dog shit.

>Because his style works in manga, not in animation.
Go Nagai's style could work well in animation. You're just an idiot pulling reasons out of your ass.

>"Natural" movement is really subdued and would be criticized as shitty animation because there wouldn't be enough movement.
No, it wouldn't. Most anime don't force characters to move all the time. Have you ever heard anyone complain that, say, Sailor Moon's animation was too static? Or that Yu Yu Hakusho hasn't enough movement? Or Because you have characters standing still in those all the time.

There's even a meme-word for when anime do feel the need to animate characters all the time and with exaggerated movement: "Forced animation". And, hell, if Crybaby isn't guilty of that, what is?

>Houseki no Kuni is overanimated because it has characters moving around a bit and fidgeting at times.
Not really, no. At least not compared to Crybaby.

>Like I said, the whole discussion about what counts as good or bad animation contradicts itself all the time.
No, it really doesn't. That's just you trying to excuse Crybaby looking like shit. Again: No one ever complains about "too little movement" in any anime, despite your insistence, unless it happens in action scenes or somewhere where a lot of movement would be natural.
When Yuasa's characters shake maniacally when they should just be standing around or do one swift directed motion, that is not good animation, it's laughable. Especially when that shaking is made up of two frames flickering back and forth.

>terms like forced animation and limited animation are thrown around all the time.
I don't give much value to those words, but I do know what they describe and why it is a problem. You seem to think that every scene should be animated the same, and when you hear people complain about OPM's season two being too static in action scenes (which is was, at times) contradicts Crybaby's overly erreatic unnatural animation, you display a severe lack of understanding for the arguments themselves, instead just going for meme-words you can dismiss.

>hat is something you consider actually well animated?
See above.

>Go Nagai's style could work well in animation.
No, it couldn't. His heavy lines alone would make for extremely stiff animations. You can't just translate static images into animation.
The last time that was tried, Sailor Moon Crystal happened.

>No, it wouldn't. Most anime don't force characters to move all the time.
Most anime doesn't have "natural" movement.

>Again: No one ever complains about "too little movement" in any anime, despite your insistence, unless it happens in action scenes or somewhere where a lot of movement would be natural.
You see it all the time. Mostly when characters are talking and only their mouths are moving. Because that isn't how people move. That isn't "natural" movement. And I've seen people defend stills in action sequences too. Even in Devilman Crybaby. Under the term "limited animation".

It’s abundantly clear Yuasa didn’t put his heart into this. Phoned in for Netflix money.

kino

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what is the best devilman anime?
that follows the manga

There are none. The TV anime from the 70s is a completely different thing just with the character design. The 80s/90s OVAs are kind of close but still deviate and only adapt a couple arcs. Crybaby also deviates quite a bit but follows the entire manga more or less. Crybaby's the only full adaptation but it's pretty different.

The /m/ schizo is at it again.

>Mostly when characters are talking and only their mouths are moving.
If it's not a close-up, that's all you should see: Mouth and jaw movements. It's only in closeups where you'll notice other parts of the face move.
As for bodily movements, well, gestures are mostly what you'd need to counteract stillness, not the kind of shaking that Crybaby had.
Honestly, no movement at all is far more natural than that.

>And I've seen people defend stills in action sequences too.
Because still in action sequences can work to anchor your eyes to certain things. You are, again, conflating singular usage with general usage. No one defends an anime for mostly using stills with moving backgrounds to an attack motion. (Lot's of battle shounen do that.) But that doesn't mean it can't ever be done.

Things tend to become problems when they are done too often or taken to extremes. And, yes, that's when animation literally becomes "limited" or "forced".
Anyway, we really shouldn't discuss buzzwords, when we instead could discuss factual evidence of cases where Crybaby's animation counteracts its narrative and is more of a disturbing element.
Because, contrary to your claims, animation can and should be criticised, and it should be done empirically, in individual cases.

Looking at him talk about animation it's embarassing, really. Remember when he said that Shinya Ohira can't draw?

>And, yes, that's when animation literally becomes "limited"
No, you fucking idiot. "limited animation" is a technical term that describes animation that uses a limited number of keyframes and/or no inbetweens, while "forced animation" is an Yea Forums meme used to shitpost.

>His heavy lines alone would make for extremely stiff animations.
I think you're over exaggerating. The only reason why someone would say this is a lack of faith in the creators of the animation industry. Someone like Takeshi Koike can handle heavy lines no problem (see the Samurai Champloo OP or The Woman Called Fujiko Mine for example). Yuasa has even directed a show with plenty of moments with heavy linework. Have you never seen Kaiba? Quite frankly it has some of the best character animation in all of his shows. The only limitation in animation is how good you are at your craft and how much effort you're willing to put in.
>You can't just translate static images into animation.
Animation is literally a sequence of static images giving the illusion of movement you dipshit. I get what you're trying to say though, illustrative skill is a lot different than the skill it takes to sell the idea that something is moving and alive. However, that just means you have to find a different way of displaying the same thing, rather than just completely stripping of it of the identity it had in the first place and replacing it with something less effective.

>"limited animation" is a technical term that describes animation that uses a limited number of keyframes and/or no inbetweens
Erm, no. If you want to stick to the exact technical term, that has nothing to do with keyframes and inbetweens, but with how much of a frame is used. In that instance, only moving the mouth without animating anything else would be technically called "limited animation", because the animators limit their work to the mouth and leave every thing else unanimated. If you want to correct others on word usage, at least read up on that stuff beforehand.

I do think, however, that whoever I was arguing with (which probably is not you, considering how you tend to express yourself), was using the term in a broader sense. Namely in there being less animation overall in a scene as a whole. Otherwise, not a lot of this exchange would have made sense up to this point.

>Someone like Takeshi Koike can handle heavy lines no problem
The problem is not that there are heavy lines, but with how heavy lines are used to put an emphasis on the image's composition, lighting and implied movement. You cannot translate that directly to an animated scene, where the composition tends to change all the time (you wouldn't want to change line-thickness inbetween frames) and where lighting and movement don't have to be implied by the drawing style, but are given by the different frames and the colours used.

>Animation is literally a sequence of static images giving the illusion of movement you dipshit.
Yes, so what? That isn't the same as "translating an image". That's literally just bringing together parts of the animation.

>The only limitation in animation is how good you are at your craft and how much effort you're willing to put in.
> However, that just means you have to find a different way of displaying the same thing, rather than just completely stripping of it of the identity it had in the first place and replacing it with something less effective.
If you're saying that one could try to find a style that reminiscent of Nagai's, sure. I've never implied that they can't do that. That's not the same as just copying his style for frames of an animation. That just wouldn't work.
As for trying to adapt some trademarks of Nagai's style in anime, that has been done before. Anno's Re: Cutie Honey comes to mind.

>Erm, no.
Erm yes. In the discourse regarding japanese animation, "limited animation" is used to describe the technique of animators such as Yoshinori Kanada and Mitsuo Iso and all their various disciples and imitators, characterized by a low drawing count and achieved through various means. You won't ever hear a sakuga discussion where "limited animation" is used to describe mouth flapping.

>Because, contrary to your claims, animation can and should be criticised, and it should be done empirically, in individual cases.
I'm not saying animation shouldn't be criticized, I'm saying Yea Forums's grasp (and potentially my grasp as well) of animation is trash and Yea Forums can't discuss animation without throwing around buzzwords. Even you used the term hyperfluid, which really doesn't mean anything in this context as you haven't defined it. You say Crybaby's animation is janky at times but also at the same time is "hyperfluid". I thought Crybaby was fairly fluid (and I'd consider it good animation most of the time) but never seemed to be overly animated compared to some other stuff I've seen.

>characterized by a low drawing count and achieved through various means.
Well, yes- But not by cutting out interframes, unless you don't count partial movements as interframes.
I guess you could make and argument for something being completely static "limited animation", in which case you'd cut out all frames but one, but that's an edge case at best.
In any way, your definition of "animation that uses a limited number of keyframes and/or no inbetweens" is severly lacking and missing the point at best and complete bullshit at worst.

And I stress, again, that that technical term was not what has been used in the discussion up to that point. (Nor would it apply to Crybaby any better.)
So if you want to attack someone for this usage, attack the other guy who introduced it here:

>"limited animation" which is the new animation related buzzword.

>You say Crybaby's animation is janky at times
It is. Look at that Ryo video I linked: He's shaking in every single frame, which is often the only thing that provides movement in what would otherwise have been a fairly static shot lasting multiple seconds.

>but also at the same time is "hyperfluid"
And, again, it is. Take that ass-shaking video in that same post. The butt is just two yellow blobs flowing in different directions, and if you'd try to find a direction of that movement and a way the weight is distributed, you'd pretty soon see that there is no sensible pattern behind it.
That same video olso has an instance of a face erratically growing from one frame to another, with no perspective change, and heavy use of repeated frame cycles.

>never seemed to be overly animated
Well, then look at the third video I have linked, in which the father is shot and while collapsing flaps around in a complely uncomprehensible fashion.

By the way, "hyperfluid" does not require much definiton: We all know what fluid movement is. "hyper" just means "over" or "exaggerated". It simpoly describes something that's way more fluid than it should be, like a butt completely being deformed in a slow movement and seemingly moving against where the mass would dictate it should go.

>In any way, your definition of "animation that uses a limited number of keyframes and/or no inbetweens" is severly lacking and missing the point at best and complete bullshit at worst.
It's literally the definition. Both Iso and Kanada skip on the inbetweens and animate entirely in keys, and use a variety of timings and snappy transitions to achieve motion. It's literally stuff that you can read on their wiki (as well as countless articles and blogs of course), do you even know who these people are?

best devilman related media yet

I get your point now. I didn't mean to state my stance so bluntly. What you described at the bottom of your post is what I wanted to get across. Of course you can't just take Go Nagai's art and throw it into animation. I didn't mean it that literally. I just don't think it's a good reason as to why Yuasa practically threw out anything resembling the original manga in favor of a much less effective style closer to his recent films.

This.

>It's literally the definition.
It obviously isn't, when a simple google search gives you pages of different definitions, none of which have anything to do with the amount of keyframes and interframes, and very much with how much effort goes into animating something.
But, hey, even if we say your definition was entirely correct; you'd still have contributed nothing to the discussion at hand.

>What you described at the bottom of your post is what I wanted to get across.
Okay. Seems we are mostly in agreement then.
What do you think of the style used in Re:CH? Does it come close to what you'd imagine as a good stylistic adaptation of Nagai's manga?

>It obviously isn't, when a simple google search gives you pages of different definitions
We are talking about japanese animation and sakuga discourse. You obviously didn't go to neither Iso's no Kanada's wiki pages where their styles are described and the definition is stated, nor any of the of blogs and articles about the topic that are literally 2 clicks away. And you clearly do not know these animators and have no experience with the terminology used in sakuga discourse, so could you stop pretending to know what you're talking about and start listening and learning?

Woah...

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What the fuck is this garbage?

i finished it last night

couldn't help but think yasua was making a satire of your typical netflix program through a lot of it. last 2 episodes were really good though.

Nagai can't draw, more news at 11.

Yuasa was dabbing on Nagaifaggots and literally driving them insane, as proved by this thread.

Tezuka was always the superior mangaka.

God bless that furfaggot.

>We are talking about japanese animation and sakuga discourse.
Go away with your "sakuga discourse" and overly specific definitions that can only be found on some specific artist's wiki-pages. Thatt contributes nothing to this descourse in this thread, as it is decidedly not what the other user meant to imply.

Oh, by the way, just to verify your claims, I did look at the wikipedia entries:

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshinori_Kanada
does not state anything about limited animation and while
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsuo_Iso
does give a definition that vaguely matches yours, it also links to this article:
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_animation
which, funnily enough, gives a definition that's completely different.
Not that anything of that matters in any way in here. Seems more like you just want to show off how "knowledgable" you are without making an actual argument.

Why does Yea Forums hate this, this board isnt normally contrarian for no reason

It's literally one insane /m/ schizo.

It was ok i prefer the Ovas though

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I liked it a lot, especially how they changed Silene's character.

Does anyone like the OP? I couldn't imagine how anyone could enjoy it.

I tried playing the Devilman no Uta rendition over the OP and it can sync pretty well, I'm almost certain they were going to use that as the OP then changed their mind.

If devilman isnt blue then it isnt canon.

I liked it. It's nice to have an opening that's mostly instrumental.

>contrarian
It's not "contrarian". No Yea Forums board predominantly liked it, but a lot of people used it as a meme on Yea Forums for a while.
I've heard that reddit did love it though. Make of that what you will.

Fuck off with your accusations of samefagging. If you really think it was good, make an actual argument instead of trying to discredit two thirds of the thread who make actual arguments for disliking it.

>Go away with your "sakuga discourse" and overly specific definitions that can only be found on some specific artist's wiki-pages.
Nothing "overly specific" about it, you fucking moron. Every single article and discussion about japanese animation, Iso, Kanada, Imaishi, Amemiya, Ikarashi, Sushio, Sato, Oshiyama, those entire schools of animators will use that definition of "limited animation". Do you really need me to link all the literally endless resources on the net? All you have to do is digit "limited animation" and those names. Here, I give you a headstart:
>Mitsuo Iso’s animation is limited in the sense that he doesn’t draw 24 frames per second, but with a lot less drawings (limited animation) he is able to give the same impression as if it were full.
washiblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/18/the-magic-of-mitsuo-iso/
If you want to talk about sakuga with anime fans you have to learn the language used in this enviroment, not spout the same shit you use when talking about your calarts cartoons or something and expect people to tolerate your nonsense.

Again: Nothing of that contributes anything to the debate we had in this thread.

But, sure, I accept that in your limited circle in which you discuss (exclusively Japanese) animation, it might mean something different than it usually does and that most sources outside of that circle are just incomplete.
The good thing is that I've now learnt that specific definition, and you have now learnt the more general definition.
Isn't that great?

alternative version is great