If Emiya Shioru hadn't accidentally used a catalyst...

Yes, probably Jesus would have taken the ability to use magecraft from mankind before going off to preach again.
Because he's a nice guy.

I've always seen Jesus, if ever summoned, like a dual-like servant. By that I mean a single servant split into two which, once combined, create a savior class.
>A caster-class called Gii that's mostly focused on healing and buffing, depicted as the loli
>A berserker/Revenger-class called Zoos that's this big-ass motherfucker covered in thorns that'd probably out-punch original berserker around and then still be able to make Gil turn tails and leave.

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Jesus can't be summoned, Nasu already said so. He'd be Saver class if he wanted to be present in a HGW for some reason like Buddha in Extra, though.
Not possible. Muramasa doesn't qualify as a Heroic Spirit and is only able to show up as a demi-servant using human Shirou's body in the autism that are the HGWs of Grand Order.

But how would he compare to Buddha?

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Hitler would be a Lancer in a regular HGW, also qualified as an Avenger and his true class if possible.

Couldn't he be Archer if it's his WW1 version?

Servants who would probably have decent compatibility with Shirou:
>Any version of King Arthur
>Siegfried
>Arash
>Spartacus
>Tamamo Cat
>Jeanne d'Arc
>Jack the Ripper
>Frankenstein
>Karna
>Helena Blavatsky
>Thomas Edison
>Bedivere
>Miyamoto Musashi
>Kato Danzo
>Sigurd
>Beni-enma

Servants who would probably have the worst compatibility with Shirou:
>Most "Evil" Servants
>Gilgamesh
>Brynhildr
>Suzuka Gozen
>Penthesilea
>Nightingale
>Asclepius

Why Nightingale not? She shares exactly his kind of autism. Don't see Edison, Jack, Musashi or Fran having any compatibility with him either.

Buddah was a human reaching for enlightment as far as I know, while Jesus is basically God with an avatar in the human world, so I'd say there's a giant gap between them.

Would Shirou fudge the Astolfo?

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>Would Shirou fudge the Astolfo?
I can imagine the nasu sex scene
"his penis wiggles like a sea cucumber out of water"

He would probably have good compatibility with Medea. The only problem is if she will be forced to maintain herself by sucking people's lifeforce. But she can probably unlock his circuits so that she can receive magical energy from him.

Nightingale is not above sacrificing people, or limbs, to save others. Shirou wants to save EVERYBODY.

Nightingale and Asclepius would have the absolute worst compatibility with him. Not just them, any Servants who dedicated themselves to medicine would be unable to deal with him. The guy has literally zero concern for his own wellbeing. They would be fundamentally unable to come to an agreement. Sure, Shirou would allow and even encourage them to save as many lives as they can, but as long as he doesn't place himself in that number, they wouldn't be able to get along. Asclepius in particular would find him absolutely enfuriating.

He would also be HILARIOUSLY weak, to the point that nearly everyone could kick his ass without effort. The only servants that would have problems with such a modern legend would be Angra Mainyu and Mata Hari.

Why Jack and Thomas though? Like, I get everybody else to at least some extent, if only because if a lot of them are easy mode when it comes to compatibility anyway (You literally have to actively be a dick to not be compatible with Frankenstein or Siegfried). But those two don't really fit, if only because Shirou has never been that much of a mom.

Remind me why Shirou can't summon EMIYA. Isn't the only reason he doesn't summon him is because Avalon overwrites other catalyst he could use?

Karna is a lancer in Fate/Extella link

Only two of those can be summoned as Saber though, which was the only class left. Or can Karna be summoned as a Saber as well?

Would he? Like, some more recent heroes are actually pretty powerful.

If you think there's a gap between Jesus and Buddha then you don't really know much about Buddhism. True enlightenment, even in original Buddhist doctrine, is basically being an isekai cheat character after the story is already over that even true divinity can't touch. To reach Nirvana is to know the truth of all things, and exist outside the realm of eternity. Even the most broken ass Hindu gods can't do anything to the Buddha because he can just say they didn't achieve it, and they don't - and the high end of Hindu gods is more powerful than even the most broken versions of Christian myth.
Even drawing the blood of the Buddha damns you to a hell that lasts nine universal cycles. The universe has to begin and end nine times before you can even be considered forgiven, and then you're reincarnated into the lowest form of life.

No, Karna can only be archer, lancer or rider.

That's just yet another discarded F/SN rule.
Tesla is basically just as old as him and was super strong in London in FGO.

>Like, some more recent heroes are actually pretty powerful.
name a powerful hero from the 1940's

That's talking about myth. God is supposedly omnipotent in christian myth, so it's a bit hard to top his power if we're going for the most broken variant.
They'd probably be equal servants in different ways.

>Hitler only died two years after Nikola Tesla.
Huh, weird to think about.

So Cursed Arm Hassan in HF is completely autonomous? Why is he working for Zouken?

Nikola Tesla and Anastasia.

Shirou has a strong innate mom attribute. If he summoned a young girl Servant like Jack, he'd cook for her, buy her clothes and generally try to raise her right. Furthermore, he has a strong moral compass and desire to do good, and thus wouldn't allow Jack to commit any evil acts. Jack is said to have excellent compatibility with Masters with a strong "good" alignment.

As for Edison, it's because they'd appreciate the other's penchant for mass-production and improvement over the creations of others. Bonding with Edison would strengthen Shirou's creativity and probably allow him to "improve" on more Noble Phantasms in the future.

Nikola Tesla died in 1943, and he's noted as being powerful. Like, even if you want to argue that Hitler's role in history was less important than Tesla. The sheer infamy and reputation the man developed has to give him at least some power.

Nigga the entire point of Christianity is basically Christians going "Everything else is shit, but OUR God is THE shit!". The Christian God is effectively absolutely omnipotent. It's the equivalent of kids on a playground going "MY dad can do anything YOUR dad can do, only BETTER".

>As if we were jousting, our lances clash against one another. His penis dancing like a cute ballerina practicing her routine

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Because Zouken is his master?

Hitler is mysterious as fuck, maybe not on the level of literal legends that we don't even know existed IRL, but plenty mysterious.
He had shit like the Lance of Longinus, which would be broken as fuck for any servant to have, being the spear that pierced Jesus. He's the most infamous man in the entire millenium and it'd be hard to find someone who didn't know about him and consider him evil. People don't even know if he died.

I always feel being a mom is more Emiya's thing than Shirou. Still, I guess that had to come from somewhere. And he would probably have a decent time getting along with Jack. Who, honestly, is probably another easy mode servant if you can handle children

Good point about Edison. Although, I do still wonder how Edison would deal with Shirou's autism.

The lance would be especially broken, since the circumstances surrounding it in WW2 makes for the impression that Hitler died because the Americans got their hands on it.

But he had no command seals right?

Nigga, you're the one that doesn't understand. The end game of Buddhism is literally "nothing matters except truth" and then POOF your existence is no longer bound by any rule, any law, time, space, existence. True enlightenment means that no god, no devil, nothing can subjugate you because you're free from suffering.
In Buddhism all gods of all religions are just existing in one form of heavenly realm among the many realms, and when this universal cycle ends, they'll be reincarnated like all other spirits that failed to reach enlightenment.
Buddhism as a religion is literally anti-god.

Anastasia is strong because she's from a Lostbelt
Tesla is strong due to "stealing Zeus' thunder" and giving it to the people so he gets Pioneer of the Stars and all the other shit to go with it. Not to mention he's left with a fair bit of mystery like supposed death rays and other crazy inventions. It's also why he's stronger than Edison.
>He had shit like the Lance of Longinus
So does every Austrian Emperor get that as well? They've had it in Vienna for over a thousand years.

And Christians would still go "Nuh-uh" and say their God's still better. They've been literally doing this for two millennia.

>and the high end of Hindu gods is more powerful than even the most broken versions of Christian myth.
I somehow get the feeling you don't understand the concept of omnipotence

>So does every Austrian Emperor get that as well?
They didn't go out of their way to get it for the sake of victory and they didn't die literal hours after they lost it.

The thing about Hitler is that if he really WAS as powerful as people say, he wouldn't have lost the war. He would be a case where the beliefs of a few kooks would be beaten down by reality. Ultimately, none of the shit that Hitler was said to have held in his possession was any use in the war. He's not like ancient legendary heroes who DID use their incredible powers and weapons but were beaten anyway. The Nazis' alleged research on mysticism and the occult failed to bear any fruit.

If Hitler truly did own the Lance of Longinus, he would have used it in the war. But he didn't. Ergo he either didn't have it or wasn't able to use it.

>He had shit like the Lance of Longinus
This is literally a pure comic book invention
>So does every Austrian Emperor get that as well? They've had it in Vienna for over a thousand years.
The holy lance is different from the spear of longinus.
It's a spear that has one of the nails embedded in it.

Absolutely none of them are except for Tesla. And even Tesla is just raw power without much finesse.
Tesla does jack shit except shooting EX rank lightning. Guess what, most GOOD heroes can dumpster that without a problem.
He wasn't even "super strong in London", Kintoki killed him easily with your help, what the fuck?
Anastasia is trash league and one of the weakest heroes. Ascribing Viy's power to her is disingenuous.
Nobody in the modern day is "mysterious". Mystery flatly doesn't exist after Edison. Hitler would be an E rank junker.

Lucius Longinus, the OG owner of the Lance is actually a Servant and considered one of the strongest.
The Holy Lance is comparable to the Rhongomyniad which was a Divine weapon capable of a NP of 3000000 or whatever in Fgo while the regular busted NP has a powerlevel of 1000.

I still wonder if Simo Häyhä would qualify as a heroic spirit. Having one of the largest individual kill counts has to count for something.

I don't remember VN mentioning anything about that but he was the one to summon hassan using Kojiro's body so why wouldn't he get them. And he was assassin's anchor which you need to have command spells for.

The Bhudda can stop caring about everything, but capital G od is omnipotent. When there is nothing, he creates light and all of existence.
In a way, they are equal, because nothing would matter except god if he were omnipotent.

Kintoki is literally a Divine attribute Servant which was being supported by yet another Divine Servant.

Anyone who "inherits" a noble phantasm for any reason is invariably massively inferior to its previous holder, this is the entire point of Gilgamesh being 'the strongest'.
He'd be a trash tier assassin with D rank presence concealment. He just killed hapless russians by the dozen, it's not impressive.

I don't think you understand just how stupidly busted Hindu myth is as its highest tier of divinity.

The main teological reason for the split between Great Vehicle and Pali Buddhism is the exact nature of Buddha's omniscience.
He's high up there

He probably can't use it to that extent anyway. Do you really think Hitler would have enough mana to use an A++ Anti-Fortress holy lance? Besides, even if he DID have it, given that he didn't use it in the Second World War, it'd probably be like a Golden Fleece situation where he has it but doesn't know how to use it.

My point stands.
The concept of omnipotence clearly goes over your head.

Nah, he would be a Archer. Otherwise though, I do agree that he probably wouldn't be that strong.

>He just killed hapless russians by the dozen, it's not impressive.
I think the Russians would disagree with that. They send entire hit squads after the guy and still failed to take him down.

Why do people think the Lance of Longinus would be some kind of super god killer?
It literally pierced an already dead jesus and is only significant because it got touched by his blood.

Or Launcher

>Why do people think the Lance of Longinus would be some kind of super god killer?
Because it inflicts wounds that will NEVER heal. Like, even if you were completely immortal, it could still put you out of commision for all eternity.

God I want to blow a load into Astolfo

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>Because it inflicts wounds that will NEVER heal.
Why?
It literally didn't do fucking anything besides puncturing a dead body.

Your point doesn't stand at all though. Buddhism deals with the concept of the omnipotence of creator gods and it only extends to the boundaries of their own creations. Buddha exists outside of those creations because he's come to recognize the creation itself.
You can keep shouting omnipotence if you want, but all it does is reinforce that you have no clue what you're talking about.

Because Lucius Longinus is an actual Servant and the thing is actually busted as fuck in Fate.

>This is literally a pure comic book invention
The germans certainly grabbed it because he wanted it.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Lance#Vienna

The Holy Lance of the HRE is not the Lance of Longinus you fucking retard.
Atleast read the god damn wikipedia articles instead of just the title.

So what kind of Army managed to conquer Camelot? KotrT has guys that summon giant pillar that slam down on armies left and right.

The opinions of russians are not very heavy in the minds of all mankind.
Remember, killing 500 men over the course of four months is impressive in the real, non-mysterious world. But we're talking about HEROES. Diarmid O'Dyna killed 3400 people in a SINGLE DAY, and he's middling.

>Why?
I don't fucking know. That's what it does in the myths around the weapon.

Longinus is the strongest servant in fate requiem and a the lance is on the level of rhon which is the holy lance that pins the layers of reality of earth to the planet. It is busted.

I'm sure Rhongomyniad wasn't a giant umbrella that shot down laser beams from space capable of creating craters the size of towns in the actual Arthurian legends.

All "lances" claim to be the lance or part of it.

Again, the entire point of Christianity is that a bunch of Romans came together and said, "Dude our God literally created the entire universe. Everything in the observable universe was created by him and he could undo it with a snap. Y'all niggas can't compare to our God's shit." If you asked a Christian, they'd just go "lol dude whatever, our God can end your """""Buddha"""""" by blinking lolol". That's been the M.O. of Christians for two thousand years.

The fundamental point of Christianity is that Christians saw what all these other religions were doing and, rather than make up a bunch of feats or concepts, they just said "Our God can do anything and everything. Anything the deities of your religions can do, we can do better". Just blanket omnipotence.

The idea of the Christian God is that EVERYTHING is in his domain. In fact, in some of the earliest ideas of Christianity, it was said that gods of other religions were basically under the Christian God's authority. Christians would just claim that even Buddhism is under God's domain. And if you tried to claim otherwise, they'd call you an ignorant heathen and execute you.

If Shirou didn't have Avalon, that implies Kiritsugu managed to stop 4th Holy Grail War some other way without Saber, because that's the catalyst they used to summon her.

Meh Nasu follows has mix of buddhist and taoist cosmology

>The opinions of russians are not very heavy in the minds of all mankind.
I think you underestimate how many Russians exist.

>Remember, killing 500 men over the course of four months is impressive in the real, non-mysterious world.
I get that. But at the same time, his sheer skill at sniping has to account for something. He killed a fuck ton more people than the likes of Mata Hari or Billy the Kid.

God does seem to exist though.

Also, how the fuck do you mix taoism and buddhism cosmology anyway? The two might as well be opposites.

Okay so we've got people here that know a bit more about buddah than the regular user so here's the question.
Fate aside: How would Jesus and Buddah's interaction end up as? Like, what's Buddah's personality usually?

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In fate buhhda is galaxy level in savior class and jesus is apparently on that same level. GOD himself is obviously beyond that. His human avatar, Solomon was in life the strongest shit ever.

Chinese Buddhism did just that.
Hell when Buddhism came to India the Buddha was just interpreted/translated as a barbarian Taoist immortal, so it can be made to fit.

It would be a really boring and very peaceful conversation. At best, there would be a few jokes made at the expense of more crazy followers. But I doubt much would come from it since neither one has much of a instinctive of getting involved in long philosophical discussions with each other.

>The holy lance is different from the spear of longinus.
>It's a spear that has one of the nails embedded in it.
As far as I know those are the same thing, the Holy Lance is called the Lance of Longinus, the Hofburg Spear etc. Yeah, the Vienna one was made in the 7th century but none of the purported ones are real anyway.
Himmler was the one obsessed with occult shit and embarrassing neo-pagan LARP. For Hitler it was the Wagner connection, not any belief in supernatural victory via the Lance, that's been thoroughly debunked. He didn't just take the Lance, he took all the Habsburg imperial treasury to Nuremberg due to wanting to be seen as a link to the "glory" of the HRE.
>Mystery flatly doesn't exist after Edison
It does, just to a much lesser degree. If it didn't it would mean magecraft wouldn't work at all.
He would probably qualify but would be weak. He'd probably get a snowy forest RM or something where his presence concealment shot up massively but was really weak outside of it.

Tell that to Solomon, the flawless instrument of God's omnipotent will.

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Sasaki Kojiro just killed swallows in his life and as a Servant can bend time and space to hit 3 places at the same time.
Hassan was someone who would have anyone he wanted executed so he can apply the concept of death to anything as a Servant.
That's just how Fate works.

Camelot fell to itself, mostly due to Lancelot. Mordred would have failed massively if it wasn't for Lancelot fucking everything up at the same time. It's really quite an embarrassing story.

>So what kind of Army managed to conquer Camelot
In the normal timeline, most of those people died killing each other during the rebellion that Mordred mounted. Camelot was killed from within. Mordred gained support among a large part of the country while Arthur was out during a campaign, and when she returned Mordred launched her attack. Lancelot came back, got gated out by an angry Gawain, injured Gawain and ran, which led to him dying in battle later. Lancelot previously killed two members of the round table before his initial leaving. Mordred was killed by Arthur but she dealt Arthur a mortal blow. Tristan jumped ship before things went south long before. Bedivere, who wasn't nearly as strong, survived to return Excalibur to whence it came. Pretty much all of the strongest members of the round table either died or fucked off though.

the question is is non berserker spartacus a bearable character

>Chinese Buddhism did just that.
Isn't Chinese Buddhism more related to Confucianism than Taoism? Like, I remember taoists and buddhists not getting along in Chinese history.

>He would probably qualify but would be weak.
I imagine so. His only real advantage would be that, far as I can tell, Guns are still pretty effective against most Servants.

How the fuck did Goetia end up in nirvana

Zerkerlot's guns were effective because they were D-rank NPs, I doubt Simo would get that effective. Probably E- rank attacks that get boosted to C or something in the RM.

>Solomon, the flawless instrument of God's omnipotent will.
I sometimes wonder whether Nasu even skimmed Solomons wikipedia article

Tell that to the Japanese. Many of them believe that a person can blend beliefs of Buddhism, Shinto, and Christianity with no problem. They tend to take a far more laid-back approach to religion in nip land.

If Hitler actually got it as a servant, it would be gimped, yes. But I'd still say it'd be quite strong, and he'd be strong for a 21st century servant, probably the strongest.

Now, I may be wrong on this, but I remember the power of the lance being as follows:
Whoever holds the spear holds the fate of the world in their hands, for good or evil.
If they lose possession of the lance, they will die. As an example, it is said that Patton and his soldiers took possession of the lance April 30, 2 hours later Hitler killed himself. Though who knows, his body was never found. Patton also died after transferring the lance to one of his soldiers, I think. But I may be wrong on that.

A simple set of abilities, but absolutely broken even without any fate-style additions.

In Nasu's universe, Saver was probably Siddhārtha Gautama. Amaterasu, the Shinto Sun Goddess, is also Vairocana, the central Buddha and Siddhārtha's later identity. I don't really get how that works since Saver was clearly a dude and not a giant large-breasted lady with fox ears, but whatever.

Personally, I kinda wish Avalokiteśvara would make an appearance.

Lurker here with almost zero knowledge of the Fate franchise. Nonetheless, I'd like to ask a question: why is it that Jesus cannot be summoned?

Tamamo Lancer has hinted at a Tamamo Beast and Tamamo Assassin seems to be associated to it.

>why is it that Jesus cannot be summoned?
Can't summon divine spirits in Fuyki is the original answer. Plus he wouldn't give a shit about the Grail, and his second coming would mean the end of the world.
However since it now seems likely God is above simple divine spirits and Jesus = God

He'd probably be a Savior-class Servant. Saviors can only be summoned by their own will. Even if you had a catalyst, Jesus wouldn't appear unless he willed it.

Him being summoned would mean the world at the end is literally fucked beyond saving. Savers are top tier servants like Grands.

He's a Divine Spirit of the highest order.
Divine Spirits in general can't usually be summoned outside of FGO autism.
He also has no reason to fight for the Holy Grail, he owns the thing.

Agravain was the one who keep the round table united because everyone hated him but Lancelot killed him.

Billy and Nightingale seem to have Guns that are plenty effective. Obviously, both of them only appear in FGO which makes the whole thing a bit hard to properly measure. But I don't think all Guns are automatic E- rank.

That's because Agravain, despite being a massive cock and would-be traitor, was a hard ass who kept everything running. He was disliked almost universally, but he played an important role in keeping things together.

Well he was basically the secretary after all.

Speaking of Jesus, I heard they were trying to summon Satan/Lucifer in Fate/Fake or whatever it is called and even Pale Rider one of the 4 Horseman who will announce the end of the world appeared.

To be fair, Shinto and buddhism do actually mix pretty easily. Christianity is a bit harder, but not impossible as long as you just don't think about it.

Buddhism and Taoism though... That just doesn't work even if you somehow decide to ignore all of the philosophy.

I don't believe Jesus would be very happy with how mages are using the holy grail

I'm convinced that Tesla is only what he is because someone or multiple people drank the koolaid.

It is easy to ascribe power to it when you consider that it is one of the known items that came into contact with Jesus and beyond that came into contact with his blood.

Nightingale's is just a regular attack, not even an NP. Plus she hasn't appeared outside FGO so she's hard to judge.
Billy's NP is the technique and he's probably the most famous wild west outlaw yet Thunderer is only C(+++) rank. It's also more of a reactive attack.

>basically a secretary
>was never wounded in combat because he either won or ran away
>only manages to kill Lancelot in an alternate timeline because he drugs himself up with suicide pills that give him a major boost
>Bedivere is still considered the weakest
Poor Bedivere.

IMAGINE

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Fake Rider was a mistake. The Tsubakis tried to summon Qin Shi Huang but their daughter had magical bacteria in her brain and thus they summoned a representation of disease, mainly the Black Death. He's not the "real" Pestilence but more like Kojiro from F/SN where the Black Death was summoned and assigned the role of a "horseman".

The somewhat longer answer is that Buddhism fractures into different "versions" (don't know a good English word for that, sorry) all the time
I was referring to early forms of Chan Buddhism.
In particular, when Chan went to Japan, the idea of Wu (itself taken from Taoism) would become the Zen's idea of Mu.
Mind you, there are kinds of Chinese Buddhism that take more inspiration from Confuncionism, or even go back to Indian and Bali forms of the religion.
That's before you consider newer stuff like Pure Land.
Plus Religious Wars were dime a dozen in east Asia

Nasu doesn't want to piss people off
Despite having Saint tiddys in FGO

Korea is like that too

It's confirmed that the "Holy Grail" is actually just an artifact made out of cursed gold. The actual Holy Grail has never appeared in Fate.

Maybe i'm not understanding something about how combat in Fate works. But far as i'm aware, normal attacks do still work just fine. Like, if you stab Saber in the face with a knife. It won't just bounce off her flesh harmlessly.

>Rider is the embodiment of pestilence given form by the False Grail, and "he" is given the True Name Pale Rider (ペイルライダー, Peiru Raidā?). Differing from those called Heroic Spirits, "he" is only one in name. Far from a "hero", "he" cannot even be called a Villainous Spirit or Demonic Spirit. Some regions have called "him" a "curse", and some religions have denoted "him" to be "divine punishment." "He" is "disease", that which has existed since time immemorial and that which will continue to exist far into the future. "He" has lived a shorter life than anyone, and yet has lived a longer life than anyone. Called a horseman who has brought calamity to all, "he" is that which "let loose" the Black Death that killed thirty million people and came "under the name" of Spanish Influenza that killed fifty million people. Given a physical presence despite not being a Heroic Spirit, "he" continues to exist in that moment to take the lives of those on the planet to provide "himself" nourishment for life to begin anew.
>Rider is not based on a hero, or even a human, so "he" lacks a persona and was only given knowledge by the system of the Holy Grail War. "He" does not understand human emotion, and "he" only acts for Tsubaki and "his" own instincts. "He" is akin to a robot created without emotions or internal monologue, a mere formless mass of awareness and knowledge about the Holy Grail War. "He" speaks with a grating sound like the "scraping noise of swarms of insects battling one another" and "his" words are dread incarnate.

>multiple people drank the koolaid.
If you hadn't figured that out before London when FGO dropped I don't know what to tell you

He wouldn't care about the holy grail sincd it wasn't anything to him. Just a cup. Prototype arthut gave a good point that it's existence is against his beliefs.

Attacks without mana behind them do fuck-all. Normal guns don't do anything to servants.

>Whoever holds the spear holds the fate of the world in their hands, for good or evil.

>Sir Balin uses it to stab a king in the dick

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who is the girl under hilda

>Despite having Saint tiddys in FGO
Nobody gives a fuck about Saints anymore. Even hardcore christians don't give a fuck. If anything, most of them are likely to just dismiss the whole concept.

>Arthurian fanfics
Nasu following French fanfiction was the worst thing

Would they care about Einstein nuking them?
Einstein would be a cool servant if he got shit like the nuke, and could go at C for some reason

>Would they care about Einstein nuking them?
Not one bit
>Einstein with nuke
Eh, I'd rather give it to Oppenheimer and fuse him with Vishnu or something.

just looks like mordred with tits

Can Avengers only be summoned through corrupted Grails?

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They can't be summoned in Fuyuki wars without Einzbern cheat codes but in less well made rituals like Snowfield they're probably fair game

Sir Kay hasn't appeared yet, but he is described obliquely as having the superhuman breath control abilities that he does in Culwch and Olwen via a CE in FGO.

Solomon makes some sense if you take the Quran and Islamic legends about him into account. However the whole thing about being the perfect instrument of God is something Nasu possibly came up with because he figured he's never going to touch Jesus.

Einstein could potentially be some op shit, considering Karna's np was described to be as powerful as a nuke.

So, like, if Hercules were to be given a normal giant metal club to hit people with. It wouldn't do anything?

Just make a servant out of a nuke

No, because he's a servant and thus his attacks will have mana behind them. But a regular dude stabbing Artoria with a regular sword shouldn't do anything.

I have no idea.
Never played HA and missed on Hopeman's event where I assume they explained Avengers in FGO since they sure as hell don't ever explain it elsewhere.

>the concept of mutually assured destruction via nuclear hellfire becomes a servant
I could see it in SF

Well jesus is pretty much new testament Solomon anyway. If jesus ever appeared he'd be a Solomon face.

Why do people think the Holy Grail would be some kind of super wish granter?
It literally was a cup to drink from and is only significant because it got touched by Jesus.

He should just look like this.
Pure, contained nuclear fireball plasma.

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That's so weird and arbitrary. Does adding mana to a attack just make it THAT much more powerful? Or does adding mana to it just somehow negate whatever invisibility servants normally have?

>Does adding mana to a attack just make it THAT much more powerful? Or does adding mana to it just somehow negate whatever invisibility servants normally have?
Servants are spirits, you need mana to do anything to spirits. You can't harm them via purely physical means.

I don't understand Nasu's Tesla wank tho.
If you want someone to have that kind of position in your universe, Newton should be your guy.
Newton "unifying Heaven and Earth" and "subjecting the stars in Heaven to the same laws as men of Earth" was a pretty big deal.
Most of the religious criticism of his work was due to that. Also he is one of the most prominent names of the founding period of modern science, the very same thing that is killing Mystery
Also he was an actual Alchemist (if you need to give him weird extra powers).

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cute

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>If Shiro summoned WW1 Hitler (Lily) he'd be an absolute madman always on the offensive.

I guess that makes sense. Although, like I said, it still just feels really arbitrary that punching somebody in the face is totally a effective strategy as long as your punches are made by somebody that uses mana.

In any case, back to our original point. I imagine that the guns a servant like Nightingale would use do have some mana behind them. If all else fails, you could probably get something similar to the bullets Kiritsugu uses.

I think he just wanks Tesla because he wanted a excuse to have a servant that shoots steampunk lightning at people.

It would basically be a stronger version of Angra Mainyu's NP.

We see it in UBW tho (the VN)
Kuzuki enhanced by Caster can hurt Saber, but when Caster dies he punches Archer in the face with all his strength and Archer's head does't even move.

Nightingale's shooting does work, yeah. But I doubt they're as effective as guns would be against a human.
Kiritsugu's Origin Bullets can only be used by Kiritsugu, but there are probably other people who have made ammo with their bones to varying effects. Human Kiritsugu wouldn't be able to do really anything to servants though since they're just so much stronger. And Origin Bullet only targets magical circuits that are in use at the point of activation.

It's not so much mana as mystery. In the VN Rin says normal stuff is useless, but even a paper knife could be a viable weapon as long as another HS was using it

Yeah, I know. Although I originally just took that to mean that Caster was boosting his Strength a LOT.

>But I doubt they're as effective as guns would be against a human.
Well, obviously. Otherwise she would go around one hit killing almost everything.

>but there are probably other people who have made ammo with their bones to varying effects.
Do servants have bones that could be used like that?

>Do servants have bones that could be used like that?
Servant Kiritsugu has access to his gun and bullets
I doubt there's other servants who have done it though

>If Hitler truly did own the Lance of Longinus, he would have used it in the war. But he didn't. Ergo he either didn't have it or wasn't able to use it.
That's easily fixed by adding another layer to the war, with the Clock Tower fighting Ahenenerbe too. Hitler's bullshit was countered by the Clock Tower's bullshit.

Sakurai wrote Tesla, and they love steampunk and victorian stuff stuff.

Kuzuki is still super human, given how much Nasu compares him to Bazzet and Kirei

That would actually be pretty cool.
One of the most interesting modern servants one could make. Being an incarnation of the end of the world is pretty much the most dangerous thing you could get from this age.

Is Fate/Requiem any good? Is it even translated?

Honestly I remember Tesla less for the powerwank and more for his very important duty of constantly getting into slap fights with Edison over electric current and meat so Helena Blavatsky can step in and cow the both of them. It's a pretty sad fate.

If Emiya had summoned Spartacus, Type moon probably would have made spartacus a girl instead.

And she'd be wearing that same bondage gear.

What people fail to realize is that Artoria is also a masochist.

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Ok so I just checked and apparently Medea's reinforcement can multiply base stats x10, so why doesn't she just cast that reinforcement on herself (even E rank is 10 times stronger than human) to become as strong as Heracles?

What about Mordred as a servant for Shirou? Would that even work?

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...

Demiya and Jalter note that guns AREN'T effective against Servants, in EoR.

I want to see Mordred raping Shirou

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No, no

welp

He'd keep treating her like a girl and probably die.

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Wouldn't that pretty much just be the Lich from Adventure Time?

Cringey.
But Mordred with abs makes me hard

Only if he listens to her warning about calling her a girl.

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Do they? Weird, especially considering several servants actually use guns in that singularity.

Medea isn't a brawler, even if she gets very strong she would still get recket against anyone with a minimum knowledge of close combat.

I think you're underestimating how strong somebody with A+ agility, endurance and strength would be, even without close combat knowledge.

I just want to make Mordred a mother

>regularly appears as an nondescript man or woman dying of radiation sickness with their hair falling out, bleeding from every orifice, skin sloughing off and eventually even fingers and arms falling off
>true form is constant nuclear fusion in the shape of a humanoid emitting light so bright it can turn any mortal instantly blind and temporarily blind servants and cause them great pain
>is actually really weak but if attacked will immediately explode as a magical cluster-nuke wiping out half a continent

It might work as long as Shirou doesn't go full autist about not being called a girl. If he can keep himself contained long enough for his maternal instinct to win over Mordred and become the dad/mom she never had, then it would work.

Nah. If anybody is fucking anything, it's Shirou.

Real guns doesn't affect servants but servant guns are made of mana and affect other servants, like Moriarty bullets.

SHORTER!

This could just be a dub thing. But I remember Medea flat out telling Rin that she's horrified a proud mage would resort to brute violence. Guess it's a pride thing.

Wouldn't guns affect Gilgamesh after the 4th War as he was incarnated and doesn't have a spiritual body anymore?

She'd still throw girly punches. With the force of a truck mind you but it's better to actually enhance someone who can use those stats.

You are the one underestimating other servants, I don't think Medea could win a single fist fight in that grail war just by enhancing her stats. Servants who rely in close combat doesn't only have great stats they also have great skill and a lot of fighting experience.

E isn't 10 times stronger than a regular human, that has never been stated. E is given a numerical value of 10 but we know absolutely nothing about what it means.
Having only good stats does fuck-all. Any half-decent combatant would wreck a total novice like Medea.
Theoretically I guess, but he still has C Endurance so bullets would just bounce off of him.

I always wonder if I could handle having Mordred as a servant. Considering how absent minded I can get, I would probably call her a girl by accident at some point. I doubt she's the type to forgive such a thing, even if it was just a mistake.

" And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."
It would be paradise

It is a pride thing, in the VN even Saber says what Rin did was disgustingly un-magi like.

Here's the thing, Fate basically runs on Platoic ideal world rules. The laws of nature are entirely malleable and change with time. An attack isn't really "X amount of Joules" or whatever, like we would think of it with guns and bullets. Its "how potent is this as a Concept".

Magical Energy in turn is something like conceptual weight; it's how Reinforcement magic works. You temporarily give it more mystical muscle, which in turn makes it better at what it is.

So, results in the following cases:
>try to stab a heroic spirit with a normal knife: nothing happens
>stab a heroic spirit with Azoth Dagger that has been charged with magical energy for years: heroic spirit takes damage and dies
>Heracles picks up stone axe-sword-cudgel thing: becomes capable of hurting heroic spirits
>Kojiro and Medusa use "normal items" as weapons: still able to hurt heroic spirits
>Kuzuki when Reinforced by Medea can hurt heroic spirits with his bare hands
>Kuzuki while still Reinforced, can throw Saber against a completely mundane wall at 200 mph and she takes damage, even though "logically" the wall is mundane and without any magical energy or mystical weight, because the attack is "thrown by Kuzuki(possesses sufficient mystical weight), therefore damage = true)
>Kuzuki without Reinforcement support from Medea can punch Emiya in the face and literally nothing happens
>In Apocrypha literal rocks and rubble on the ground become so charged with magical energy that they can hurt heroic spirits when they get thrown around(when Spartacus was trashing about, can't remember exactly)
And so it goes.

Also, why the flying fuck would she ever resort to throwing punches when she has a literal "I win" knife? Like, if she's close enough to punch somebody in the face. She can just use her noble phantasm to steal them.

That incarnation was still based on his saint graph so he carried over all his stats. It'd be like shooting Superman.

Once Buddhists reach enlightenment they no longer care about the mortal plane, they're gone, beyond whatever we're doing. So while they are theoretically beyond all power, they also will not act on our world either meaning they have no place in this setting.

Servant Berserker [Little Boy]

Eh, if she likes you I think she can let it slide a few times. For example I can't see her killing Shishigou if he called her a girl a few times.

Shirou with Karna though would be a recipe for some delicious fried circuits because Karna's a crazy mana hog

Arthur must have been a shit king if her subjects rebelled against her.

I guess it's kind of consistent. But the whole thing still just seems so arbitrary and weird. Made even weirder by the fact that destroying the spirit core is also something you can do.

Well maybe she wouldn't cast it on herself, but if she cast it on any other servant she controls like False Assassin, Archer, or Saber they would probably be able to solo the HGW, as in addition to skill in close combat they also have higher base physical stats than her, don't understand why she never does this to anyone except Kuzuki.

>Shirou getting completely fucked over by his own servant doing something.
Sounds about right.

It'd probably work fine, after the initial rough patches. Mordred's rough mouth would probably get Shirou to stop holding back his own snark.

They both die horribly, unless Mordred's presence is enough to stimulate Avalon into working.

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Yep. Though Karna would be the worst. Just the armor alone is equal to trying to manage a servant that's constantly pumping out A rank NP's

Ignoring the fact that Karna spams like 5 different NP's whenever the fuck he feels like it

So weird that an incarnation of Solomon could just delete himself from everything.
Imagine you're the "original" Solomon just chilling in the Throne of Heroes with the other Heroic Spirits when suddenly you start disappearing because one shitty-ass version of yourself decided to erase itself from history.

I'd be mad beyond belief.

I think it was something along the lines of "Swords >>>>> guns". But it makes sense, since if you need to have magical energy in the projectiles for them to work, then just spamming bullets would be really inefficient compared to have a single sword with a lot of power.

Like Shirou mentions in Fate that Caliburn contains some hundred times his own maximum capacity of magical energy.

She trusted Archer about as far as she could throw him. Meanwhile, she was in the process of brainwashing Saber. So, I doubt that was much of a option.

As for False Assassin, I guess she just never got the chance. I don't think the two fought side by side in any of the routes.

>unless Mordred's presence is enough to stimulate Avalon into working.
To get Avalon working you need Excalibur which Mordred doesn't have.

I'd stimulate her Avalon, if you know what I mean.

She looks so happy!

He could just eat plutonium until his NP upgrades.
At first, it should be called [Trinity]
and toward the end, [Tsar Bomba], [MIRV], and [MAD]
youtube.com/watch?v=7H9ZQSZ9G9I

Something something Salomon was God's literal sockpuppet something

Except if Shirou summoned Karna like he did Saber, he wouldn't be giving him any mana at all (one of the main problems of Saber in Fate). Karna would likely oneshot Cu and then Disappear from mana shortage before Rin comes.

Did the Lost Belts reveal any new Grand Servants?

Heroic spirit Solomon was just a robot anyway so probably would just think its another whim of God. He's not really deleted though, he's truly with God now.

Could Saver Jesus defeat Gilgamesh?

Not yet, but Daybit's servant is supposed to be a Grand and he also summoned a Berserker. Those two might match and he has Grand Berserker, or maybe he doesn't. We won't know for a few years.

>few years
the fuck.

>Eh, if she likes you I think she can let it slide a few times.
Well, I doubt she would like me. Still, I guess she isn't completely unreasonable. She would bump me on the head though, or something else of that nature.

Yes, but he wouldn't

If the plot demands it

This thread is stupid, everyone knows the most compatible servant for Shirou was Caster.

Her ability to Self-Reinforce is probably already factored in, similar to how Saber's Magic Burst is already included into her visible stats. Or how Kiritsugu doesn't have D+++ whatever Agility to show how his time alter works, but it's a base A since he can keep it up indefinitely as a Servant.

Also a question of container limits. Like a rock can be hardened with magical energy because it's normally empty. But a Servant is probably already working at near peak the whole time.

Like Reinforcement is described as raising the existence of an item, so it's like temporary XP. Heroic Spirits are level 90 normally, so they can't really raise their own stats too much. But if they use Reinforcement on a level 20 human being, it could be raised to level 40 temporarily. Or something.

>Grand Berserker

Who the fuck could it possibly be?

How did Jinako deal with the whole mana problem again?

Cain

I'd let her bump me on the head, if you know what I mean.

>inb4 an actual German berserker

Probably. Shirou and Saber's relationship was somewhat rough at first as well.

>Mordred's rough mouth would probably get Shirou to stop holding back his own snark.
Isn't Shirou more of a first person snarker anyway?

>Karna would likely oneshot Cu and then Disappear
Nah, he wouldn't even get that far. Karna would disappear just from having his armor on. It's that bad. He instantly dropped the moment he lost support in Apoc with the Dracula stuff

I really hope it's Beowulf

Samson

Isn't him still supposed to be alive?

War

Yeah he's a cab driver.

I think it would be kind of endearing. Painfull, but endearing.

Beats being stabbed because I accidentally called her a girl, anyhow.

I think the moon cell just operates on different rules.

She favored the commoners over the nobles, so the nobles got butthurt when she never failed and died like they'd expected her to. It's outlined fairly clearly in Garden of Avalon.
No, it's Saber. Excalibur has never been mentioned as being a requirement. Materials always mention Saber herself.

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I'm sorry Yea Forums, I've pre-ordered the game already. Even with all the bullshit, I'm still hyped for it. Tremere > All

Karna punched stuff and only pulled out his lance in brief flashes.

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I'd let her stab me if you know what I mean.

God, I'm so horny for Mordred.

Probably Samson. Or maybe somebody related to Odin.

I find that unlikely considering he's already a servant. I doubt they would miss the chance to introduce a new character. And if they did, it would probably be for somebody like Cu.

Shirou summons the Gorgon sisters. What happens next?

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>Couldn't do shit.
>Still cared about his master.
Karna is the best boy.

Yep
Grand Berserker is going to be a new servant, and they'll go back and go "Yeah but these old servants would also qualify for it." They did the same thing with Merlin and Solomon

Medusa route?

1: They are divine spirits. Shirou can't summon those for the HGW. 2: He can't summon two spirits at once without some serious rule bending fuckery. 3: Assuming they can beat or fend off Cu, lots and lots of sex.

What would the requirements for Grand Berserker even be?

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>True Name: Trinity (could have any number of names, really)
>Servant Class: Caster
>Alternate Classes: Berserker
>Alignment: Nukes don't discriminate, so true neutral mayhaps.
>Origin: Modern

What are his stats, Yea Forums?

What's wrong with Suzuka?

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Well, if fictional characters are a choice...

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Tesla has the Pioneer of the Stars skill, that's why he's relatively powerful.

Hitler was in the Third Holy Grail War. We don't need another Shirou/Archer thing.

We will never get warp spasm Cu

>STR E
>END E
>AGI B
>Mana A+++
>Luck E
>NP A+++

Is it actually possible to summon fictional characters? And if so, would it be possible to summon Berserker Don Quixote or Archer Legolas?

What's his NP, user?

see

>We will never get warp spasm Cu
I know.

I still don't get why they didn't give Cu Alter warp spasm.

Wait, you get Spartacus if you dont use catalysts??
It cant be only him.

Pretty sure there are some already.
Caster Gandalf would be cool, but Tolkien himself might be a servant, IMO.

He's probably not her type.

Yes and no
You can't under normal circunstances but you can if you are on a Losbelt or some weird shit is happening or the fictional character is the culmination or realization of a concept, like how Holmes is the concept of "the greatest detective" born of both true and mythological stuff

>I still don't get why they didn't give Cu Alter warp spasm
I like the fact that even Cu Alter would run the fuck away from a warp spasming Cu.

So it's just Harpe.
Honestly Buddhist memes among servants are more busted than Christian memes so far. See Suzuka's Buddha sword that lets her manage to calculate better than the Moon Cell and stuff like that.

probably that one viking fucker that held an entire bridge by himself during the battle of stamford bridge. His name is unknown and the battle itself is symbolic as it marked the end of the viking age due to the decisive English victory.

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The only servant that is hinted to POSSIBLY be fictional is Sherlock Holmes. Phantom, Doctor Jekyll, and Frankenstein all actually existed in the Fate Universe.

Caster Gandalf would be really broken. I also doubt you could summon him considering Wizards in Lotr are basically gods. Maybe as a pseudo servant inhabiting Ian Mckellen.

He's literally one of the originators of the ceremony, he probably has thousands of command seals

We don't know much about Jesus in Nasu. Most of these answers are headcanon bullshit user. Besides we have plenty of servants who were avatars (Rama to name one) and plenty of servants who became full gods after death (Hercules). As long as there's a record of falling from being a god (Brynhildr), being a mortal at some point before becoming a god, or having a mortal split off that mortal part can be engraved as a heroic spirit. You can have a Heroic Spirit Hercules and a Divine Spirit Hercules as separate existences. There was even an attempt to make a Divine Spirit Iskander in canon.

That would be funny. Warp Spasm is seriously fucked up.

No, the avenger of Shinjuku was clearly fictional and only possible to be summoned because Moriarty fuckeries. I'm pretty sure there was someone else that was clearly fictional too

Probably because warp spasm is not some evil corruption of Cu, just his regular way to go berserk

Gandalf is literally an angel

Cu Alter is like Jeanne Alter rather than an actual corrupt version of the character, he's Medb's fanfiction of a perfectly brutal and cold Cu for (her)

Has it actually ever been confirmed if Cu can be summoned as a Berserker?

Gandalf is essentially an angel and basically a 1;1 of Odin though

>Gilles fanfic Jeanne is a massive chuuni tsundere.
I guess even insane serial killers understand the power of cute girls.

What if I summoned the God Emperor of Man as my servant?

I don't remember where it's from exactly but Cu can be summoned as all original classes besides Assassin.

I thought he was more similar to a God than a Angel. I know he's the same type of being as Sauron, who was the God of Smithing.

What would his class even be? Avenger?

I remember reading that Cu Alter is just how Cu thinks a king has to act.
But that was back when it came out in jp and I never bothered with actually playing the slot machines

Sauron isn't the god of smithing, just a Maia who trained under the Valar of creation and was particularly good at the creation of objects of extreme magical power. He also goes down like a bitch several times in the Silmarillion, including losing to a guy with one hand and his dog.

Let's see.
>Ark of the covenant. Instakill that bypasses Herc's God Hand.
>Martha got Divinity C just by hanging around while Jesus was preaching.
>Solomon was the fucking Grand Caster.
And mind you we've just gotten people not that related to the big figures of Christianity. The prophets of the Old Testament were able to summon armies, conjure storms and a lot of crazy stuff. And just imagine the Divinity rank of the Apostles, who followed Jesus to the bitter end. Who wrote the Book of Revelations would be the most terrifying of them all considering the crazy level his Clairvoyance would have.

The only God in Tolkien's world is Eru Illuvatar.
Then there are the Valar like Aule, Manwe, Tulkas, Mandos or Morgoth.
Below that are the Maiar like Gandalf, Saruman and Sauron

This. Talk of "compatibility" goes out the window when your future self is in the Throne.

>only stinky neckbeards know about him
>modern invention
he'd be shit tier

Would he even need Command Seals? He's the guy who invented them in the first place. He probably knows some kinda trick.

To be fair the one handed guy was Tolkien's self insert and his dog was cheating

But user, he was clearly referring to the 41st millenium variant

I see. Would the Malar and Valar classify as divine spirits or just angels? Assuming their status as fictional characters doesn't make the whole question irrelevant, obviously.

Future has no mystery so he'd still be weak as shit

To be fair though, Shirou does have the worst possible compatibility with himself.

Eru = Capital G God, in the christian sense
Valar = Essentially Greek gods, enormously powerful reality-bending beings with total dominion over certain areas
Maia = Their servants and helpers. Think of them as angels or demigods.
Ungoliant = Who the fuck knows

That said, Tolkien plays it fast and loose with powerlevels and clearly cares way more about telling a story than explicitly explaining how each character's power works and how strong they are.

Well, I guess if you can summon valkyries then Maia shouldn't be too much of a problem. Meaning Caster Gandalf or Avenger Sauron would be totally plausible.

Although, frankly, Sauron would be a awful servant.

Kratos

Black Beard is the most well known pirate and Caesar is what people think of when they hear Roman. Yet they are pretty low tier

He would've died on the 2nd or third day. Sparticus is a trash tier servant in the 5th war.

Saber is Caesar's weaker class, Backbeard is actually pretty good

Not at all. Blackbeard is tougher than he lets on. Even Hector respects him. In his hayday, Hector used fear and intimidation to control the seas. In the world of Heroic Spirits, however, that doesn't really work so well so he acts like a dumbass to get enemies to let their guards down. He's far more intelligent and skilled than he pretends to be. That said, it looks like he's been infect a little too hard by the 21st Century.

Caesar is also tougher than his rarity suggests. His skills and techniques as a fighter are the real deal. He's said to be shockingly agile for someone of his size.

kino

Thats pretty much every major religion though. They all have stuff about their god(s) being omniscience/omnipotence.

# of stars in FGO isn't powerlevel. Romulus is a 3* but he's a monster lore-wise.

Probably at least as strong as Goddess Rhongomyniad.

Blackbeard still lost to a human Drake who beat Poseidon but he is a jobber so who cares I would wager that lorewise Blackbeard is probably the 2nd strongest pirate in Fate but pirates in general don't seem great.

Servants are big deal mysterious existences and heroes who do the impossible. A servant doing something is very different from a normal mundane person doing something in the end. A lack of high mystery can mean it doesn't do much to a servant even if it's a conceptual or magical weapon. For example Kirei throwing Black Keys which are bargain bin conceptual weapons that are specialized against vampires at True Assassin who in turn is a lower ranked servant, barely does damage to him.

It wouldn't bypass Godhand if it wasn't a high enough rank. Besides it's strong because it's so narrow in focus and power. It's also completely impractical and a plot item that can't really be used almost all the time.

Certain individuals and things in Christian legends are strong, but Christian stuff doesn't automatically equal strong. Meanwhile stuff tied to Buddhists have consistently been very strong.

Finally Iskander has C rank divinity just because of propaganda rumors without much basis so. Not that huge of a deal.

when was that stateD?

Karna I think would actually be poor compatibility to Shirou. He would do better with someone like Shinji.

They are the shittiest divine spirits ever. Even if he allied with medusa and medea, herc/gilgamesh would fuck them over.

She likes stoic, hard-working guys who show a softer side when it comes to caring about her. Shirou would 100% be her type.

Tesla was unironically written by an author who wrote an entire VN about how super Tesla fights eldritch monsters summoned by the British West India Company.

Someone like Kay would be great to pair with Shinji. Or Chiron.

A lot of What a Beautiful could fit into Nasu actually. Metacreatures from Sharnoth are pretty much Malignant Information + Imaginary Demons. You could have Cracking as something akin to a in-between of Magecraft and Codecasting to...

>>grand saber
>>possibly another Saberface
God fucking damn it

reminder shirou is gay for issei and issei is gay for shirou

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The guy who made nuclear bombs would have a pretty strong NP for sure, as far as modern humans go.

Yeah sure. His Noble Phantasm would be "If I could get my hands on the materials and funding, I would be able to make a nuclear weapon".

>no one mentions Li Shuwen despite him canonically being strong as fuck in both versions
was he really that forgettable?

I'm sorry but that's not how Fate works

That's how Semiramis and Avicebrons NP's work you dingus

To this day i dont understand jesus
>jesus is god
>but he is not
Either he is or he is not, either he is his son, or he is himself.

There was no one guy "who made nuclear bombs", the Manhattan Project was more than 130,000 people. Just the academic scientists still numbered in the hundreds. It was not something Richard Feynman put together in a garage.

>"Any version?"
Though can Lion King/Rhongomyniad Saber be said to be Shirou compatible? If for whatever reason, they were summoned?
I can imagine that they may put Shirou onto hardcore hero of justice route.

If we go by Fate logic, the guy who knows how to make nuclears bomb, but never launched one, would need the materials to be able to make one. In the other hand the pilot of the Enola Gay would be able to drop nuclear bombs as his NP.

I'd imagine normal Lancer versions would be fine. They're not that hardcore. Shirou's pretty compatible with King Arthurs simply based on personality alone, so as long as she doesn't go full divine spirit ,it should be fine. Even the male version should be compatible.

What would be Eumenes' Noble Phantasm?
He is the guy who looks like adult Waver

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you don't even know what you're talking about, the hanging gardens example *literally* doesn't count
"Semiramis didn’t actually create the Hanging Gardens. However, this “falsehood” that was included into Semiramis’ legend at some point over time eventually became true. However, since it brings something false into the real world, it has to use real materials for its construction. If this were the true Hanging Gardens, it would be able to activate—to manifest just by releasing its true name like a normal Noble Phantasm, though." Fate/Apocrypha materials
otherwise ever single temple and pyramid would have required the same conditions.
The reason Avicebron's golems are like that is that the fact he didn't complete them in life is part of the legend that gives form to his NP, he can make a golem but to reach its full potential it has to become a perfect being.

what if I summon Nikola Tesla, also known as The Crawling Chaos?

Tesla's already a Servant and has nothing to do with Nyarlathotep. Nyarlathotep is also available as a Servant, sort of.

We could have had Berserker Tesla as a shoggoth of lion heads and electric wires, but FGO made Narita retcon it into the Humbaba

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Not really, by Fate logic only the guy who knows the inner working of a nuclear bomb and how it is made would be able to project such a thing. By Fate logic the pilot would have "drop a nuclear bomb from the sky" as a final, ultimate attack while the scientist would be able to conjure one on the fly.

As a non-christfag, the holy trinity has always seemed like a retarded asspull to explain the poor writing and logic errors in the bible. Jesus is his own father, and he's also some third magic entity? Monotheism was a mistake.

HP Lovecraft (true) himself could be a servant (ayylmao), something like the Foreigner based on his mythos but with connections to the creatures he wrote about.

Heroic spirits don't project things, they materialize the weapons they already had when they were alive even if they don't know the inner working. So, unless the scientist had an actual nuclear bomb in his possession when he was alive he wouldn't be able to materialize it and would need to make one from scratch.

I just wanna see this guy as a servant already

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True Berserker was Edison.

Mary Magdalene demi-servant using Caren's body when?

Nyarlathotep would never help humans as that would not be interesting. It's a MUCH better story when she's on the enemy team.

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Jesus is the "son" of God.
As in, he was given life not by two human parents but by God himself putting the baby in Mary.
To solidify the fact dude was capable of literal miracles, and eventually got killed for it.
The part I never got is if he came back to life after three days, what the fuck happened to him after?
It could be cool to see Fate's version of him but I'm positive that they would get a lot of shit for that. Much like making a character of Hitler.

Y'all really aren't paying attention to F/GO nowadays, huh.

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Fuck off Lovecraft

HP Lovecraft was just Prelati.
Discuss

Oh that's right
I always mix the two of them

Edison would be a great Servant Shirou could get. He has similar iron will, a comparable "looking for purpose" background, and a "cheat" Noble Phantasm that weakens the more mystical Servants they'd go up against, potentially bringing them down to their level. He even gets along well with EMIYA in FGO since they're both shameless iterators rather than innovators.

In turn, Shirou could help Edison overcome his weird off-brand breed of racism.

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>the guy who knows the inner working of a nuclear bomb and how it is made would be able to project such a thing.
Not all servants works like Emiya, he is a very special case. Inventor servants don't just conjure things they actually build them like Avicebron in Apocrypha or Davinci, Tesla and Edison in Grand Order. Other heroic spirits don't "project" things they summon their NP which is a crystallization of their myths. In the case of a scientist that would be most likely his laboratory.

>Horrible abominable face
>smoking hot body
dick is confused

Jesus is literally GOD in human form. He and Shioru would easily win the war.

>that picture
What the ever living fuck a I looking at? Edison was a fucking rainbow furry? How the hell did the history books not mention that??

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>jesus is god
>but he asks for advice to god

You mean besides that one time Nyarla was also an Elder God right?

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Imagine Jesus manifested through the Archetype Earth as a summonable servant.
You know it's going to happen one day.

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he's a rainbow furry because he got the power of all the presidents of the usa

The presidential power of the united states turned him into a lion.

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John 10:30 "The Father and I are one" Jesus is god.

Edison is a composite of USA greatest heroes, who according to Nasu include Tomas Edison, all their presidents and the MGM lion.

This is what christfags actually believe

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Jesus is God self-insert in the earth.

Zen buddhism is mix of taoism and buddhism far as I know. Taoism talks about macrocosmos and buddhism about microcosmos.

>Gilgamesh
Oh I would love to see how this would play out

>still no Josef Mengele servant
>still no Robert Oppenheime
>no Einstein
>no Paul Tibbets

Fucking get to it already, Nasu!
Also make them all cute waifus!

Hitler would be a gender-flipped saberface if they added him to FGO.

>unless the scientist had an actual nuclear bomb in his possession when he was alive he wouldn't be able to materialize it
outdated and retconned, Medusa literally uses the scythe that was used to kill her as a weapon. In nu-Fate it is enough to simply be associated with something for that something to be your NP. Requiring materials to make a NP and such is a special case for reasons strictly related to the legend behind that weapon.

>Meanwhile stuff tied to Buddhists have consistently been very strong.
Besides the Servant in Extra and Suzuka's sword whose special skill makes her smart what else have they shown?

That's a completely original universe made by the insane demiurge who has woken up within the dream and become lucid, able to spawn even outer gods with a flexing of her will. It's literally brand new! You can't use it as an example of normal Nyarlathotep behavior.

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he can only be summoned if he wants to be, and his reappearance heralds the apocalypse so he's understandably hesitant

>Medusa literally uses the scythe that was used to kill her
That wasn't even Perseus scythe, it was Medusas' scythe she used it since she was a kid. It was her weapon.

Sanzang?

>I do still wonder how Edison would deal with Shirou's autism.

Edison is insanely autistic himself. Did you know that when he was a teenager, he ran his own newspaper out of a train (he was weirdly charismatic that way), complete with working printing press? Fair enough. But then, young Edison - interested in science even at this young age - decided that he would also build a rudimentary chemistry lab in that exact same train. Predictably, the chemical containers smashed into each other and started a huge fire in Edison's personal train car, which got him kicked out by those that owned it. When Alexander Bell managed to create the telephone ahead of him, Edison dedicated the next few years of his life to perfecting the technology instead of making something new just to show how he would've done it better. He nicknamed his children "Dot" and "Dash" after telegraphy lingo. When he thought he had discovered etheric energy (actually electromagnetic radio waves), his first thought was how to use it in conjunction with telegraphy. The first successful prototype of the phonograph found its first viable recording medium with a disk of used sandwich paper; Edison's used sandwich paper. The moment he was married, he spent the rest of the day back at his workshop instead of with his newlywed wife. He used his partial deafness to zone out during conversations that bored him to think about other things while pretending to pay attention. He wanted to install a massive speakerphone in the Statue of Liberty's mouth to greet new arrivals to New York. He never got seasick, so when others did, he'd find a rancid piece of pork to put under their noses to make them even more nauseous. He created an electric pen that was useless to write with because it vibrated too violently.

But perhaps his greatest feat of autism was his proposed uses for the newly invented phonograph which range from the treasonous to the outright perverse (he was a father at this point, by the way).

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The problem with Christian Servants is that after Jesus died, God stopped giving his followers cool shit like plague superpowers (Moses) and just gives his chosen agents the equivalent of a divine thumbs-up which sometimes drives them insane with love even though it doesn't actually give them any real special abilities (Vlad).

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O-ok
>hi i am god
>oh really me too
>but we are not the same haha XDDDD
You are of the belief where every single one of us is a fragment of god.

>He never got seasick, so when others did, he'd find a rancid piece of pork to put under their noses to make them even more nauseous.
Based

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The scythe was given to Perseus by Hermes specifically to kill Medusa. When did Medusa ever have it in her possession?

Fair enough, though I have to admit I find it strangely amusing that due to the crossover content of Blasterz it is theoretically possible that the observed events of other HGWs (besides the Fourth) could end up taking place within the restored macrocosm with some rather "unique" interference.

Pretty sure Dagda's Cauldron was the original wish granter and through Christianization it was supplanted by the Holy Grail. Probably didn't hurt that the Last Supper is important theologically and the basis for a sacrament.

It was said somewhere that he qualified as Berserker, but was stronger as Lancer.

If you're looking for a crazy Berserker, look at Cu's battle-brother Cethern.

Samson or Cain

But he's similar to that in the Islam. Besides the three 'aspects' of Solomon could very well follow each of his books:
>Proverbs: Solomon.
>Song of Songs: Roman.
>Ecclessiastes: Goetia (though a bad interpretation of it).
He didn't skim shit because he actually incorporated quotes and references to Solomon's mindset. He mixed stuff.

>Imagine you're the "original" Solomon just chilling in the Throne of Heroes with the other Heroic Spirits when suddenly you start disappearing because one shitty-ass version of yourself decided to erase itself from history.
You're assuming what Solomon did in FGO affects in other timelines when Jack was erased forever and couldn't be summoned at all and wasn't in the throne in Apocrypha but this doesn't matter in FGO. Or Jeanne left the Throne of the Heroes and couldn't be summoned again, does this matter outside Apocrypha? The Throne being 'shared' by everywhere is just a meme.

Well, or Romani/David face. Jesus being a descendant of David and all.

Are Cu and Cethern as gay as Gil and Enkidu?

The guy you're quoting is taking the piss. Pretty much everyone makes fun of Roman/Solomon. The one time he tries to criticise his dad under his human guise, David proceeds to talk about what a reprobate his son was.

Romani is Solomon after gaining his own will and humanity.
And David was just teasing his son. He saw through Roman instantly.

Tbf Apocrypha is not canon.

user. Protection of Faith isn't a divine blessing. It's purely one's belief and fanaticism serving as a purity and mental armor.

Isn't Sanzang meh in Fate? The most she was able to do was to break down a weakened Camelot's gate, and she had to kill herself to do it.

Cu was commenting that Berserker Cu (real) is nuts. Don't summon him, you'll regret it, ect.

No, Cu's butt-buddy was Ferdiad, who he tragically killed in an unavoidable duel.

Cethern is Cu's psychotic war buddy who charged into battle naked, went on a rampage until he got mortally wounded, killed any doctor that said they couldn't save him, and was turned into a half-chariot cyborg so that he could continue fighting.

"Just" break down an entrance to Camelot is a lot bigger than you think user. The reason she died was because servants can't handle becoming a higher order being like a Buddha or Divine Spirit. So stuff that brings you too close to that ends up destroying you. It's her second NP that makes her Buddha. It's similar to how Suzuka would die if she uses her cosmic brain sword too much.

>Ferdiad finds himself on opposite sides to his best friend and foster-brother Cúchulainn who may also have been his lover
Ferdiad in FGO when?

Also that one guy who was a complete bumbling moron.

>Most "Evil" Servants
Alignments in nasuverse don't work. Dr. P for example would get on swimmingly with shirou

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Exactly. It kind of sucks compared to, say, destroying a city's walls with a trombone.

*does nothing*

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Nasu basically confirmed a Tsukihime event golden week next year

>half-chariot cyborg
How has Fate not used this yet?

Dr. P isn't evil aligned though.

>*does nothing*
Everyone: Oh (you)'re so amazing. Without (you)r commands we couldn't have saved the day.

Has Hannibal Barca showed up as a servant yet? If not, why? With how many romans there are it would be a perfect addition.

>>if Emiya Shioru hadn't accidentally used a catalyst, he'd have gotten Spartacus as a servant (he is qualified for Saber class as well)
If Emiya Shirou didn't have a catalyst he wouldn't summon a Servant at all.
You NEED a catalyst or something connected to the Servant you want to summon.

Just admit you want titty Artoria to be reserved for Guda and don't want to accept that she'd take Shirou's dick too.

He is basically Hey Ya!

A magi can perform the summoning ritual and get a completely random Servant that has great affinity with the summoner. The catalyst is only necessary for trying to get a specific Servant.

You always need a catalyst, yes, but if you don't have any relic the grail just uses you as the catalyst, like with Ryuunosuke in F/Zero.

Based and motherfucking christpilled

Cain feels like he fits better being the true identity of First Hassan.

Would shirou still be alive around the time when the world ended in 2016 or did he already off himself by then?

The catalyst was dead kids.

No you don't.

"You see this holy spear? Incandescent in its beauty and flawlessness? I killed my son with it when her heart turned to darkness. Sometimes when I close my eyes, I can still see her shocked, tear-stained face and I find myself thinking, 'If I had only done this sooner - the moment I first laid eyes on her - so many more lives would have been spared.' That is the hero's path. Walk it if you wish."

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no, the catalyst was a kids killer.

All Saber's are the same at their core, and all of them would be extremely compatible with Shirou.

Unless they retcon what Gil says in Babylonia or I'm going off incomplete information, everyone or almost everyone in Fuyuki should have died in 2004.

If Christus Rex was summoned it'd no longer be a grail war, it'd be apocalypse
"he will wipe every tear from their eyes.
Death will be no more;
mourning and crying and pain will be no more,
for the first things have passed away.”

>he will wipe every tear from their eyes.
>Death will be no more;
>mourning and crying and pain will be no more,
>for the first things have passed away.

Fucking metal.

Maybe MuramasShirou got teleported to other time like IshtaRin and survived.

It'd have been better if I translated it to:
"for the old order has passed away"
people translate ancient aramaic and koine greek into almost whatever they want, though

>user literally gets proven wrong with Sakura summoning Rider

Possible, I honestly forgot that Ishtar is possessing Rin's actual body and not a copy.

Also both Parvati and Kama use Sakura's body.

Kek.

Lord El-Melloi II: Kongming
Tohsaka Rin: Ishtar, Ereshkigal, ????
Matou Sakura: Parvati, Kama (Kama/Mara)
Illyasviel von Einzbern: Sitonai (Sitonai, Freya, Louhi)
Emiya Shirou: Sengo Muramasa
Kotomine Kirei: Grigori Rasputin
Reines El-Melloi Archisorte: Zhongda
Luviagelita Edelfelt: Astraea

Reines and Luvia are odd, though, since they have nothing to do with Holy Grails.

And Jaguar for Taiga, Sitonai for Illya, etc. It does make a sort of sense that this method would possibly be used to preserve characters from the FGO universe who otherwise would have died. Though I imagine this was merely a nice bonus and not the main reason pseudo servants were introduced.

I fucking hate pseudo-servants so much.

if dead kids can be a catalyst so can your own body, shirou without avalon/any catalyst would summon EMIYA 100% of the time

They do feel like cop outs to an extent, on the other hand I like Ishtar's design and I can't think of anyway she or Ereshkigal could have been involved in Babylonia, that feels like it would have been a miss considering Ishtar's relationship with Gil and how interwoven the Babylonian pantheon and mythology are interwoven in the singularity.

One thing that gets me is how hazy the difference between demi servant and pseudo servant seem to be.

>shirou without avalon/any catalyst would summon EMIYA 100% of the time
Shirou would be fucking dead if not for Avalon.
In the case he survived the fire and also somehow got into the HGW he wouldn't have the mentality befitting Archer unless it's purely a biological connection?

A Demi-Servant is a living human being infused with a Heroic Spirit. A Pseudo-Servant is when a the world summons a human from another era and makes them the vessel of a spirit that can't normally be summoned otherwise, usually a Divine Spirit or those who wouldn't qualify for the Throne of Heroes otherwise like Muramasa and Rasputin. Pseudo-Servants are basically a one-time thing, something that's only allowed by the world in its current crisis. Most Grails don't exactly have the function to summon non-Heroic Spirits anyway.

Caster: Robert Oppenheimer

Reminder that a single nuclear bomb does more damage than most NPs that aren't named Excalibur/Rhongominyad/Ea
How can ancient servants even compete?

No it wasn't. It wasn't orphans, it wasn't blood, it wasn't his family's grimoire, Ryuunosuke is canonically referenced as a guy who used no catalyst.

Localized damage rather than area of effect. Vasavi Shakti may only obliterate one person, but it obliterates them way harder than putting a nuke against their eyeball and detonating.

Clarent and Balmung clash could be seen from space.
Try again.

I don't know man, nukes at point blank range are unbelievably potent, just the heat they generate could be its own NP.
If had Rhongominyad had much more power than at face value was just limited by the blast's radius, the crater it forms would have been a lot deeper (Camelot)

Can't put down those Anti-Army NPs. Even Cu Chulainn's B+ Gae Bolg produces huge explosions which do far less damage to its surroundings than it reasonably should.

He's got no chance against Superbatman

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that's really not as impressive as you think it is, especially when it's TWO high ranking NPs clashing.

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Has Robin Hood ever appeared in Fate?

>Solomon created all modern magecraft
>God puppets Solomon
>God created all modern magecraft
>God also created the church
>God plotted Goetia's entire existence
>Goetia could not see through God
Why would Jesus get in the way of God's plan?

Yes. Fate/EXTRA.

Yes, he suck oldmen dick for intel.

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How lame.

>What's vasavi Shakti
>What's pashupata
>What's Maha pralaya
Lore wise the Mahab characters are pretty broken.

Vasavi isn't even Karn's anti-country NP.

Same reason God went "fuck it" and caused the Great Flood? It's not magecraft that it's inherently evil but mages not treating it as an useful tool to do good but sinking into degeneracy.
Having said that, if Goetia's existence was in God's plan, so was the fact that he was stopped.

In the actual lore they are even more broken (DBZ shit) but in the context of Fate, how many NPs can actually level an entire city? I reckon you can count them on 2 hands.

He's pretty cool.

Technically speaking, Shirou is Mordred's step-mother.
He'd probably spoil her even more than he spoils Taiga.

Arjuna alter nuking the planet countless times before remaking it until it becomes his vision with plans to expand to the rest of the galaxy. Though to be fair, Karna's power level was kinda like what you said
>A city level still tries to fight Arjuna and gets dunked into space

If Tousaka also didn't accidentally used a catalyst, would he summon EMIYA?

What would Shirou's compatibility with Broskander be?

Aren't he and Karna using the powers of literal gods in LB4?

>>but in the context of Fate, how many NPs can actually level an entire city?
>EA
>Rhongomyniad
>Photon ray
>Ramesseum tentyris
>Melammu dingir
>An gal ta ki gal se
>Cursed cutting crater
That's it I guess?

She would get another copy of Gilgamesh.

Kinda. Arjuna worked his way up and ate weaker gods first

No, that's just how powerful they were irl.

It's not to explain poor writing and logic errors in the Bible.
It's because the old Church kept telling splinters branches that their ideas were wrong. So it ended up creating the Trinity after one-too-many "Not it's not".

Low. Iskandar is greedy and selfish. Shirou is completely selfless. Iskandar would never approve of Shirou's way of life.

Maybe he would summon EMIYA as a Saber? I mean with that his sword fetish...

The lion head is really weird because African lions have NEVER been associated with the United States.

well that's kind of the point, you can't expect that kind of powerlevel in a HGW. Excalibur is the king of "sword beam" NPs and it's doubtful if it could destroy a large city on its own, much less an entire planet like Arjuna did.
I know, but in Fate the servant forms aren't normally that powerful, they achieved that kind of power like the other user said

Iskander isn't greedy or selfish. He just wants the lion's share of what he's taken because he's the king. But that doesn't mean he's cruel to his people or deprives them of what they need to survive. The empire flourishes because the people flourish,

Nah. His brand of greed was ultimately good for his country, but he's still greedy. Fundamentally, he would not be able to approve of Shirou. One look at his room would tell you that. Shirou is someone who inherently lives for the sake of others. Without someone to support him, he's bound to destroy himself.

For Nasu Edison's best invention was Motion Pictures and because of that he is represented as a lion, as in the MGM lion, and he use the 20th century fox logo as his NP.
youtube.com/watch?v=66yo3awHKG8

I think he would approve of Shirou's desire to help people, but hate that Shirou wouldn't care about ruining himself in the process.

> Without someone to support him, he's bound to destroy himself.

That's true. I'd like to think Broskander would try to hook Shirou up with someone.

>Fate King Arthur is stronger than his actual lore
>Fate Karna is nerfed to hell and back
Why do they do this?

He'd respect Shirou, but also wouldn't approve of him. He's too much like Saber.

Nasu powerlevels are nonsense and have nothing to do with how strong the person actually was in their own respective lore, myth, or series.

It's because of the Counter Force. Counter Force can't allow something born from the planet to be capable of destroying the planet. The moment something like that exists, there's a good chance that world becomes a Lostbelt.

Sorry for the but this is actually a rather cool explanation.
The concepts are so beyond our comprehension that the best they can do is to explain it how you would explain stuff to children.

Where's that mentioned?

Shit forgot the picture...

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Fate Karna is hardly nerfed he have most of his stuff from the myth
Not like Arjuna or maybe Rama

Saber would be a terrible class for Emiya.

They are talking about Vampire: The Masquerade

Can someone explain why Jack the ripper was summon as a little girl?

The Father is God, Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. The Father is not Jesus or the Holy Spirit, Jesus is not The Father or Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not The Father or Jesus.

Funnily enough this is a part of what Catholicism teaches, that there are mysteries of faith which can only be revealed from God.

basically the incarnation of dead fetuses thrown in the river thames.
They became something of a wraith and started killing prostitutes. Wish is to go back to their mother's womb

Lots of dead babies from prostitutes. The spirits constituted themselves into a single form, as a grudge against the mothers who abandoned them.

>Jesus would be utterly disgusted at what they are doing and destroy the war like how he whipped the merchants out of his father's temple.
Sounds like a plan, Shirou doesn't care for the holy grail anyway but I doubt Jesus could get anything done with Shirou's shitty mana

>thinking jesus wouldn't have divine core EX and not have to care about maan

I see. I wonder how long it will take until Fate gets some more vampires. I know people are thirsting for Arcueid.

>implying Jesus wouldn't fully activate Shirou's circuits and heal all the fucking damage he'd done to his nerves with his shitty activation technique

>inb4 "This isn't even my actual Grail, losers. But because I love you, despite your stupidity, I'll do you a favor and remove the Zoroastrian demon you've got in there."

Nah, fuck you, it was cute

Nah

>Anastasia is strong because she's from a Lostbelt
Uh retard bro, she was Panhistory Anastasia. She was 'strong' because of a plot hole nobody bothered to explain when Billy solo'ed her in fucking Russia.

David was teasing him. He smiled when he got a reaction and said he was wrong his son as a good man so he wouldn't go around destroying the world.

What does Memedusa have to be with it?
As fact: Jack was exorcised wraith never recorded in the throne and finally reached peace.
As fact: Jeanne left the Throne of Heroes.

This in Apocrypha is only relevant on Apocrypha.

She's not strong at all. Viy is strong, and Anastasia is host to Viy, but Anastasia is not in any way strong.

>Shirou is completely selfless
The point is that he's not, user. He only acts on his self satisfaction.

>MuramasShirou got teleported to other time like IshtaRin
Different timelines. Like Waver is from FZ/Case Files. He compares notes with Roman about the divergences of the Fuyuki Grail War in Accel Zero.

The Throne probably doesn't work the way Higashide seems to think it does. The only Jeanne that would have left the Throne would have been the one who fell in love with Sieg.

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I distinctly remember that it was Takeuchi that insisted on the Last Episode parallel

Well it's a miracle either way. But, well, let's say hypothetically that you removed Emiya from the Throne. That wouldn't remove Emiya Alter.

>And David was just teasing his son. He saw through Roman instantly.
He did?

It's a miracle due to true love, it happened, and Nasu approved it. It literally doesn't carry to any other work. The records divergence from dimension (see how Alter Egos were handled for example).

I refuse to acknowledge the existance of Blackface Emiya in the first place.

Re-read the scene. David suspiciously asks him how he knew so much about demon gods to deny they were the demon gods, and Roman sputtered until Da Vinci intervened and threw a shitty excuse about him being a Solomon fan. Then David insulted Solomon and Roman got angry and yelled at him (which was very out character for him), David's expression changes from neutral and hard to a soft smile, laughs and says "Just as you said, he was a fool, but he was a honest man*" blah blah blah wouldn't end the world (insert joke here).

*Honest man is translated literally but in Japanese doesn't mean about someone who doesn't lie rather is about someone good and hardworking. So yeah, he knew he just "pretended to pretend he didn't notice" on his own works. He was trying desperately to get his attention but respected his choice so he tried to keep his distance. In his interlude, he basically tries to get Roman to watch him do awesome hero stuff and bask in his admiration rather than stiff king ones. Despite what Roman believed, David loved him the most (he hints him with his phrase "one of my loved ones was returned to life, I was hoping for another miracle").

CMIIW but this is the paradox of trinity when Catholicism branched out from the Greek Orthodoxy, aka the great schism

Some stuffs got lost in translation from Greek to Latin and voila, Greek Orthodox believed that Jesus is the "son of God" while Latin Christians believed that Jesus is "God" himself because trinity and shit

user you're fucking stupid and wrong.
Orthodox also believe in the trinity. The Great Schism is literally about the word filioque in the Latin version of the Nicene Creed.
And a lot of political stuff and later divergences but those are resuts of the schism.

Fine, whatever. The point still stands. Basically, only the Jeanne d'Arc of that timeline would be affected. Because there are multiple timelines, each with a Jeanne d'Arc, it's not much different from removing a drop of water from a cup.