Neon Genesis Evangelion

So gods aren't alive? And she isn't anymore alien than humans.

A smile that survived a thousand Rei

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Not in the way humans are alive.

She is still alive, because she is obviously still conscious and she can still move around. Your own weird definition doesn't matter.

Reifags literally cannot compete with best girl of Evangelion

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>wanting to have sex with the autistic clone version of your mother because you are to pathetic to speak to a real human with a personality

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She isn't my mother. Nor is she anything like her.

The touch that ended a million dollfags

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Okay, sachiel. Feel free to fuck off and leave us lilin in peace.

I literally have never encountered a single human being that is a Reifag and not a fat NEET. Every normal functioning adult I've met is either a Asuka, Mana or Misatofag.

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of course she isn't anything like your mother, rei loves her retarded son.

Superior mother right here.

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>I've met a Manafag
I don't believe you.

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I've known him for a while but I literally just found out yesterday when we were talking about best girls in Eva after not seeing each other for like 6 months.

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Best girl.

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Why do reifags post this b8 garbage it’s never an asukafag.

Is this your first day on Yea Forums?

Why do reifags post this b8 garbage it’s never an asukafag. It’s always a reifag posting her big dumb face.

I further disbelieve that anyone familiar with Eva EU could be tolerable, ain't none of this add up.

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>and not a fat NEET.
I mean, I was born, so that should tell you that my dad is kind of a functional adult.

You should get out more desu. There is a surprising amount of successful people with autistic hobbies and interests. It's basically my entire friend group.

Maybe I'm just lucky tho

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youtube.com/watch?v=V5FmFaK7pMU
consider what the Eva series killed

Because they feel threatened by an objectively better girl stealing the spotlight from their waifu who is basically the only thing the poor saps live for

>million Asukafags

There is only one samefag for over 20 years.

>we will never have comfy eva threads where everyone gets along

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And that's a good thing.

Was babe Rei an actual person? Or was she always a clone meant to house the soul of Lilith?

Who's soul is in Unit 00?

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Asukafags and Reifags will always fight each other over who's the best girl (It's Asuka) and Asukafags and Kaworufags will always fight each other over who was Shinji's love interest (It's Kaworu).

Asuka and misato threads are comfy

This one is my favorite.

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A smug that killed a million asukafags and rei autists

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If they stop fighting we all get TANGED

A life without fighting is a life without meaning

I've had "komm susser tod" stuck in my head for the last 6 years.

first song in my head thinking about the state of western civilization

Do you feel personally responsible?

>be me
>be shinji
>be le sad
>get dragged about by miss misato for some reason
>"get in the robot shinji"
>nah
>*misato gets shot*
>oh shit
>"come here shinji gimme a kiss"
>wtf is happening here, i got a little shinji boner even though i just got done jizzing all over asuka
>"we'll do the rest when you get back, promise"
>*rock hard shinji boner*
>grab MILFsato and get in the escalator
>instantly establish psychic connection with mommy robot
>break mommy robot out of red ice stuff
>stick MILFsato in mommy robot
>"no way i'm letting you die miss misato"
>start third impact
>heal MILFsato inside the LCL goo
>reject instrumentality and return to earth with MILFsato promptly
>*asuka is laying on beach*
>"hey idiot shinji, i'm sorry for-"
>whoops, almost stepped in some shit
>"so erm, miss misato, about that promise"
>*unzips pants*

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If there's one thing that Asukafags and Reifags can agree on is that Misato is OLD and BUSTED

Rei was always Gendo's creature and Fuyutsuki's handiwork, cloned from Yui, or crafted in Yui's likeness, or made from Yui's remains. There was never a natural-born girl, Gendo lied about her being a colleague's daughter, but the Rei personality didn't exist until Rei developed it. She was only aware of Lilith as a dark suspicion about herself and maybe some unconscious impulses. She could have developed further if she'd been more interested in being human before Shinji came or the circumstances after had been different.

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Asuka and Rei are both great, and Misato is trash.

>Old
>Busted
Keep seething fags

Lmao no. Misato is good, below Asuka, but still up there. Rei is way below Misato

She's not trash, don't be so harsh

Why the fuck do I click this thread EVERY time?
It's the same thing just on a different day

worth it

They amuse me

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You mean 2.22

Why are reifags so insecure. She’s a perfectly good waifu for u guys but the mere thought of people preferring Asuka sets you off.

Why is every nge thread about reifags vs asukafags? Why no comfy nge thread about fucking nge. Theres literally a million things to talk about and tons of weird interesting shit

Nice filename

She got blown in half so...

Boys, boys, we all know who the real best girl is, no need to fight...

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How can Asukafags even complete?

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How do I get a kaworu bf bros

Easily

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>Forgetting the fact that a little girl triggered so much a grown up woman.
Rei is based and extreme.

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Best cuckolding.
Liking Mana is even worse than liking Rei or Asuka, the moral behind this was targeted to literal cucks who not realize her manipulative intentions.
It was huge redpill in this case actually.

Rei is blank but we want to be protective with her, Asuka is too agressive but we at least could talk sometimes, Mana is just a bitch playing a perfect role pretending to like you.

Did you only read half her route?

Because we cant have nice things, there are to many virgin shut ins who would rather jerk themselves off about how there waifu is best waifu

She literally cucks Shinji for another guy and only approached him in the first place to get info on NERV.
Plus she has no personality, her entire character is 'uguu Shinji's D'. Shit character that no one liked, which is why she never is mentioned again in the franchise.

in this continuity Shinji also blows her in half, just with his dick

I just finished Evangelion. Help me cope, Yea Forums.

forgot image like a retard

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Same here bud, I’m still obessed with it after a week so I keep coming to these circle jerk threads

So I just rewatched 25 and 26, what is the consensus on what the hell was happening? I kinda like the idea that this is alternate to EoE

also breadrei is best rei

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Fuck off Anno

Cringe

That's what you are wrong on. There's literally nothing else but pompuous platitudes about human need for connection meshed together with completely superfluous religious imagery.

So please stop pretending it's anything other than waifubait show at this point.

What do you mean consensus? They openly state that this is instrumentality. Its shinji searching for himself there and all that jazz. Outside of that they ran out of budget.

Hate how much I’d like to see SoL NGE because I’m an actual shitter

enjoy /a while we still have a site to post on retard

>I'm gonna say it!
Rei > misato > kaworu > asuka

2.22 is best Rei

All Reis are best Rei.

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Honestly it's been whored out so much and I think anno should just accept that some of us are destined to be esapist losers. So they should just give us that SoL spinoff.

Well, let's feed her upper half with cock and finger her lower half at the same time.

The only type of anime you should have to cope after watching is a dead irrelevant one with no fanbase to talk about it to

Yeah, like Those Who Hunt Elves, for example.

I'm sorry for your loss user
T. Finally got to mysterious girlfriend x and no one to talk about it to

the point was to save her before that

Oh please, Rei can't even kill herself

TANG'D

i wish i could be tang’d

id die like maya, crying with happines.

youtube.com/watch?v=6KI88kNbyCk

Can it be one where Shinji is not afraid to push Rei and Asuka down and pierce their AT fields?

Based pseudogodess

Hey, I watched that! don't remember why tho

ok, so I just watched eva and EoE, and I think I get most of it...
but why did shinji try to strangle asuka at the end? it just doesn't make sense to me
it seems to come from nowhere, and then he stops? also for no reason?
please help my brainlet self understand what's going on and thanks in advance

Wrong smile.
Rei_Smile_Death.jpg

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pic related

me too user, be like maya.

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I watched it from lurking Yea Forums but missed all the threads

>Boy Shinj is a fag
>Girl Shinji is also a fag
Pottery.

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Instrumentality would be the greatest experience of your life and you would know peace forever.

you would finally be free from all the pain and sadness. FOREVER.

come on, Take Rei’s hand, she will guide you.

There’s never gonna be a solid answer, but here’s how I saw it. Shinji just finished accepting that there is going to be pain in life, and after resurrecting himself from the Tang, the first thing he sees is dis bitch. She represents both the good AND bad about life, as she’s the closest thing Shinji’s had to real love, but also what has hurt him a ton. So when Shinji sees her, he defaults to his baby-bitch self, seeing Asuka as pain. Since he doesn't like pain he tried to get rid of her, until she gives him the gentle reminder that she’s also love, the good in life. Because in order to love, to have good in life, you need to be prepared to get hurt over and over again.

>as she’s the closest thing Shinji’s had to real love
????

Well maybe not, yet, but I think both of them we’re headed to it. The obviously both wanted each other but didn’t know how to start it.

I guess Misato, Toji, Yui, and Kaworu don't exist according to you.

i have no good in my life
only pain

>Misato
I think Misato was learning to love Shinji, but she ultimately was using him to pilot EVA. It came with expectations.

>Toji
They were friends, I guess bro love counts, but it’s not Asuka Love.

>Yui
A mothers love, definietly, but it’s obvious she was taken too soon before he could feel like he was ever loved to begin with.

>Kaworu
Kaworu was a lying lil’ bitch. He was playing Shinji like a damn fiddle and ruined him.

So maybe Asuka wasn’t the only love Shinji’s had, but definitely in the romantic sense.

Shinji never liked Asuka in a romantic way, though.

>I think Misato was learning to love Shinji, but she ultimately was using him to pilot EVA
She was using him in the beginning, but she came to genuinely care for him. Her last scene before her death shows that, she saw herself in him. It was a fucking up love, but the only way she knew how to love him.

>They were friends, I guess bro love counts
So? There's many different types of love in the world. Romantic love isn't the only one there is, and Shinji sure as hell didn't love Asuka.

>but it’s obvious she was taken too soon before
It doesn't change the fact she loved him, and she shows him this in EoE when he meets her again.

>Kaworu was a lying lil’ bitch. He was playing Shinji like a damn fiddle and ruined him.
Fanwank that Anno himself proves is wrong. Shinji says he loves Kaworu mutliple times in the show and movie, and even considers Kaworu to represent love itself in EoE.

You're a retarded shipper, Shinji never loved Asuka. Sexual attraction does not equal love, and the fact that he tries to murder her and faps over her like a doll shows he doesn't even respect her and she calls him out on this. You need a certain degree of respect to love another.

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Of course the retard who thinks Shinji loved Asuka also believes the 'Kaworu was evil durrr' theory and ignores everything that transpired between them.
Every fucking time.

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Imo it’s easy to see they want each other and that it could blossom into real love. Shinji acts like creep and a robot because he’s fucked up. I do actually hate that jerk off scene because it definitely crosses a boundry, but all of them use each other in one way or another, it’s selfish human nature.

I didn't know that about Kaworu, but regardless he doesn’t come across that way to me. He comes off to me as someone who is manipulative and plays with Shinji’s heart to get what he wants. If you can explain how he represents real love, maybe I can agree, but at the moment I don’t see it.

He’s there for like 5 minutes, says “I love you” a bunch and then gets turned to raspberry sauce. Characters are supposed to be show, don’t tell.

>Imo it’s easy to see they want each other
Obviously there's a hormonal sexual attraction there, but love? No way, both nge and eoe debunk that notion.
Asuka genuinely hates everything that Shinji represents and is as a person because it reminds her of the parts of herself that she hates. Shinji is intimidated and uncomfortable around Asuka because it conflicts with his own more shy and meek personality.
There's an obvious sexual tension there, but the reason why it doesn't go further is because they have no genuine love for each other as people.
The jerk off scene shows this. Shinji straight up treats Asuka like a doll, the one thing in life she didn't want to be. He sees Asuka broken and injured and the first thing he thinks about is himself, not her. That's the furthest from love as you can get.

>and plays with Shinji’s heart to get what he wants
What he wanted was to return to Adam. He didn't need to approach Shinji at all to get this. He approached Shinji out of his own curiosity, and it's through meeting Shinji that he realized humans deserve to live more than him. He says this outright in episode 24.
He comes to love humans and see their worth through meeting Shinji, it's portrayed completely genuine.

Shinji sees Kaworu as 'love' in his heart because Kaworu loved him for who he was - flaws and all, no strings attached. This is the first time anyone did this for him.

Rewatch the episode if you actually think this.

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Just recently watched the series for the first time been stuck in my head since. So good and goes so well with the scene

I wouldn't say they loved each other but they definitely cared about each other as people before things really go to shit at the end and they're at their lowest. Asuka visits Shinji in the hospital after Leliel though she's too proud to show it and Shinji is pissed about being held back during Arael's attack. Plus after the mindrape Shinji asks if Asuka is ok but he's too meek to cross the boundary and try to give her real help.

None of the characters are worth caring about, Asuka and Rei are both shit as a waifu choice, the daily insecure threads trying to justify liking shit is proof of that

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i wish 3rd impact would happen to me

my life is constant pain, sadness and loneliness.
i want to be tang’d
i dont want to be alone.

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>"OH DAMN IM SO TIRED OF YOU NUMBER TWO ! WHEN WILL YOU ACCEPT THAT YOU ARE NOT GOOD FOR PILOTING ? YOU LOSE EVERYTIMES AND YOU ARE A HUGE BURDEN FOR BOTH OF US ! NO, YOU WILL HEAR ME NOW SHUT UP IT'S ME WHO IS TALKING NOW ! LISTEN YOU FILTHY REDHEAD FOREIGNER BITCH! WHEN I SAYS "SHOOT" YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO SHOOT THE TARGET! NOT RUNNING EVERYWHERE YOU WANT WITH THE PROGRESSIVE KNIFE MAKING EVERYONES IN DANGER ! HOW THE HELL SIMPLE ORDERS AND INSTRUCTIONS FROM THE COMMANDER ARE TOO COMPLICATE TO EXECUTE FOR YOU? YOU HAVE A COLLEGE DEGREE FROM THE SCHOOL OF RETARDS OR SOMETHING? WHY ARE YOU TALKING WHEN WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FOCUSED ON THE ACTION? NOBODY CARES ABOUT LIFE AT SCHOOL ! DAMN I DON'T WANT TO WORK WITH SOMEBODY LIKE THAT ANYMORE! I'M SORRY COMMANDER I WILL QUIT ! THIS PERSON IS TOTALLY INEPT FOR BATTLES ! SHE LOSES EVEYTIMES AND SHE DOESN'T WANT TO FOLLOW THE PLAN ! SHE'S CONSTANTLY ARGUING WITH THAT CRYBABY DURING IMPORTANT OPERATIONS ! AND SHE DARES TO REPEAT THAT SHE'S USEFUL AND THE BEST OF US ! PLEASE REMOVE HER FROM THE PROJECT OR I WILL STOP TO PARTICIPATE ! REPLACE ME WITH ANYONE ELSE ! HEY BITCH STOP LOOKING TO ME LIKE THAT ! NO IM NOT AFRAID OF YOU ! I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR INSULTS IN YOUR DISGUSTING FOREIGN LANGUAGE IF YOU DON'T LIKE JAPAN YOU CAN STILL GO BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY ! NO SHINJI DON'T TRY TO FIX THAT IT'S NOT OF YOUR CONCERN ! THIS PERSON HERE ALREADY PROVED US HER SKILL AND UTILITY! SHE'S NOT MADE FOR THAT ! NO MISS KATSURAGI THERE IS NO MORE DISCUSSIONS TO HAVE WITH THAT WRECK ! BATHUBS ARE BETTER FOR HER THAN EVAS!"
woaw what happened to Rei suddenly?

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i cry myself to sleep most nights
wish i could never wake up

Do you really want to, though? Youll be with people you dont want to wether you like it or not.

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The point of the series is to tell you that you actually don't want it though

I think your rei has reibies.

it's showing you what's happening inside people's minds during instrumentality, we everyone's subconscious is merging

It's not love but there was much more than only physical attraction between them. Their entire relationship was used to explore the human condition and the theme of finding happiness in reality despite pain. They both wanted each other but their own traumas also pushed them away from each other.
They at the very least cared about each other as friends and comrades, and Asuka wanted to be able to rely on Shinji emotionally to understand her and comfort her, which she never would admit to him or herself, and even if she did, Shinji would be incapable of it pre-EoE.

when you’ve spent your entire life is total isolation and thats all you have to look forward to.

you’ll accept anything to stop that pain.

erase my individuality, everything, i hate all of me. i dont care. destroy it and leave me lost like tears in rain.

my entire life, family, friends, all my memories and experiences. they are nothing. id trade it all to be tanged.
id be crying with happiness at the prospect.

i dont care what the point was. Annos message of overcoming depression and escapism is just blind optimism and naive

you dont overcome depression. i certainly wont. i want to die.

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join the club

So basically its the biggest and forced collective psychiatric session?

Please jump off a bridge, you're an insufferable woe is me faggot

oh i plan to.
i was leaning more to slitting my arms open and drifting off in the shower

>i hate all of me
Why?

bullshit you'll keep on posting this whiny drivel in eva threads for years to come ya no commitment pity party simpo

That's depressing, bro.
Life may be painful, pointless, whatever word you want to put on it... but it doesnt have to be, you can have fun and be happy, too, if you want.

Nobody can force you to be happy, but you can try to be by wiping away your tears and doing things you like. (Things that dont include hurting yourself)

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stfu fag you have a bad soul

you dont know anything about him you easily annoyed fag, move on

because i do, i have since i was a child.
you look at your reflection and feel nothing but disgust and hatred.
existance feels wrong, every morning waking up is regretting not dying in ones sleep.
to feel disconnected and unloved, that the only way to fix it is to wipe the whole board clean. so there is nothing.

the only relief being lack of consciousness.

I simply shouldent exist. because it hurts. constantly.

thats true for the past few years yes

well. i will eventually. its true im scared of the pain, but things are moving into place in my life where ill be forced too in the next few months, and ill die anyway, the only thing is i can choose how long that process will take

with what? food? drink? they dont do anything. they just keep my alive.

people? i isolated and alone for many years, i am unwanted, everyone i try to befriend forgets me anyway. im just forgettable and useless.

the closet i can come to happiness is through chemical bruteforce via substances, which is fleeting and hard to get a hold of

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This is so depressing.
I dont know how to help you or even what to say to make you feel better, but pls just dont die.

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i know it doesn't help but know that you're not the only one (i know you know that anyway), we're al struggling through this alone, yet together.

So you're basically have always hated yourself but never bothered to analyse your own feelings and figure out why?

*you

And what do Kaworufags and Reifags fight each other over?

Nothing, Adam x Lilith master race

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canonically Rei is better than Asuka at almost everything.

he never said that, and sometimes you dont why despite how much effort you put in to resolving your issue, sometimes it's something you cant fix and simply have to learn to live with.

im sorry. i didnt want to make you feel sad.

i need to die. its a choice of prolonging my suffering or letting myself be free.

i do feel it will be better om the other sode. i just know.

huggs, i hope theres a good ending for all of us.

youtube.com/watch?v=6KI88kNbyCk

i always have, i inherently hated myself as a child, the negative experiences piled up and more and more hate was projected onto myself. i simply should not be alive.

maybe its cause my parents didnt love me, maybe i was just born broken. what matters is the outcome thats gonna happen one day. and ive accepted and long for it.

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>I simply shouldent exist

You do exist, so on your way out could you live stream the suicide, so the rest of us can have some entertainment while continuing to exist

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Except for winning my heart

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you're a bad person, try to be better and not a complete edgy faggot.

i want to destroy myself. i dont want any part of me to persist. in media or otherwise.

based, asuka's just more human.

Are they more human than humans?

it would be nice if they could have been my parents

>he never said that
He answered "because I do" and proceeded to describe the details of his self-hatred instead of reasons

>something you cant fix and simply have to learn to live with
Yeah right, but it's not really difficult to love yourself if you understand your own feelings so I'm quite sure in this case it's fixable

The fact that you have always been doing something doesn't mean that you are doomed to be doing it forever, so if you are really uncomfortable with yourself you should, first and foremost, simply accept your own existence as a fact that you can't fix even if you get rid of yourself physically

No, that's why homoangel allows Shinji to kill him

>it's not really difficult to love yourself if you understand your own feelings

wrong, you don't know what you talking about. this is something monks spend lifetimes learning to perfect (and failing) but you think it's easy? absolute joke.

I was talking about their behavior and values.
I don't see how Ritsuko is more human than both of them.

objectively i dont think i deserve love. not in this existence.
being told your ugly as a child, teenager and as a adult. it tends to stick. especially when its different people.
but aside from that, i always felt disconnected and out of place anyway as a child, like i never belonged.

Death offers me two things. either complete peace in total lack of conciousness and existance

or the opportunity to be erased and remade into someone new

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I always saw Shinji choking Asuka, the only other person in the world with him right now, and thus the only hope for him to find true happiness if you believe the motiffs Anno is pushing (which I genuinely do), represents Shinji seeking out pain and rejection to reaffirm that this is reality.
Then, the caress by Asuka is basically a counter argument to Shinji's 'rejection' showing him that although reality is full of pain and sadness, the hope for love and acceptance coexists within it and so it is worth experiencing.

I think it was more or less just a huge meta scene to further exemplify the importance of embracing reality despite the pain in hopes of finding true happiness/love/friendship.
The titlecard of 'One more Final: I Need You' also supports this notion as it contends that both Asuka and Shinji need each other, which I most certainly agree with. EoTV ragged on not being able to be truly happy or an individual without other people you can compare and contrast too, which is pretty Hegelian desu. In my opinion, because of this, the future for Asuka and Shinji to grow closer in any capacity after that seems bright.

I really enjoyed how their entire relationship throughout the show was just a huge duality of desire and disdain. Also cool how they paralleled their relationship with Misato/Kaji via the cinematography.

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>Mana
who?

She's manipulating Shinji all along with her acting of the perfect girl who like him for nothing, it was very suspicious on the first place and only Asuka noticed.

And now thanks to these monks and the experience they've summarised it's much easier to do so

>objectively
That's your problem. It's irrelevant if something is "objective" or not since perception of the world of all living beings is centred around themselves

>bad person
>edgy faggot
You are as bad as the whiny pussy shitting up this thread, maybe stop enabling the little shits attention seeking, stop acting like some strangers suffering means shit to you other than making you feel better about your own shitty life, you are much worse than me
Thats a shame, you are leaving shit puddles of your useless existence in every post but you will not follow through, you really are a worthless faggot, completely spineless.

This too. They obviously were more than just physically attracted to one another, but they also hated parts of each other. Asuka definitely wanted to be able to rely on Shinji emotionally, although she would never admit this to even herself until we see it in EP22.

At the same time she can't stand how open and meek Shinji is for wanting genuine love and affection. It's what she wants also but can't admit because she is desperately afraid of rejection and relying on others because of Kyoko.

Anybody who says they only hated each other are braindead, and those that say they were lovey dovey only are also braindead.

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They don't have values and their behaviour prior to relatively deep interaction with humans goes down to mostly obeying orders

misato >>>>>>>>>> rei >>> asuka

Have a beautiful day, and take care of yourself

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>Rei anywhere except bottom

>maybe stop enabling the little shits attention seeking

maybe you should just grow a pair a fuck off if you're so easily triggered you pathetic misery, you're the only one shitting up this thread, .

>stop acting like some strangers suffering means shit to you other than making you feel better about your own shitty life

i'm sorry you dont understand empathy you pathetic psycho loser, get a soul

Stupid Shinji

>it's much easier to do so

but it isn't, it takes practice and introspecting, not reading some book of amazon. that's why taoist say "the eternal dao (truth/way) is not the written dao". no amount of reading will bring you closer to the truth.

shut up and move on you fool, this isn't a place to vent your daddy issues.

its ok, they will disappear when the thread is 404, an anonymity means its not really me

im sorry, but these boards are the only human contact for me

maybe, but if there is no “i”
there would be no problem

>they will disappear when the thread is 404,
Archives exist.

Damn, I can feel your impotent anger, it's delicious, in this moment is your hair flapping in the wind? Is this your big brave heart speech? Is protecting a nothing, a bunch of words on a screen, some faggot possibly LARPing and wanking off to your fake empathy the highlight of your day? You won't get any gold here kind stranger
Are you also here to white knight? Come on, show me your neutrality, tell the shit head using a thread as a shrink office to fuck off
so would a livestream link, I can screenshot your posts, same way someone can save footage of your demise, your wriggling just shows your lack of resolve, hope you came buckets to sad faggots "caring"

but who is going to honestly sit and read them unless they are looking for something specific

still, sorry i exist

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>Asuka visits Shinji in the hospital after Leliel
She also laughs at the possibility of him being dead.
>Shinji is pissed about being held back during Arael's attack
This is straight up not true. We don't see his reaction at all.
>Plus after the mindrape Shinji asks if Asuka is ok
No, he says "Asuka, I'm glad you're okay" to which she proceeds to yell at him saying something to the effect of "I'm obviously not okay you retard!" It was pretty insensitive of Shinji to assume she was okay.

And of course they cared, Asuka even cared about Rei to an extent too. They're children, not monsters.
But how can you love someone when you don't even accept who they truly are? Asuka was incapable of loving Shinji for who he was because who he was is exactly what she hated about herself. She hated Shinji because she hated herself.

>Their entire relationship was used to explore the human condition and the theme of finding happiness in reality despite pain
That can be applied to every single relationship in the goddamn show.
Especially considering Asuka shows up in episode 8. Especially considering the 'hedgehog dilemma' is introduced in an episode about Shinji and Toji, before Asuka has even appeared. Especially considering the Misato/Shinji relationship is presented as the overall focus and biggest parallel the series has to offer.
Their relationship was used to explore how unhealthy it is to selfishly use someone for your own personal validation. Their relationship is a huge warning sign to the viewer on what happens when you don't try to understand another, when you use them as a doll, when you prioritize your feelings over theirs, etc. It's not a relationship that is celebrated or promoted. It is one of many unhealthy+selfish relationships in the show, because the characters themselves deal with life in an unhealthy way.
Do not undermine the other relationships in the show to boost the importance of a single one, it's dishonest.

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Even if so, I guess it would still set you at the right direction, wouldn't it?

>if there is no “i” there would be no problem
Yeah, but it's quite an extreme solution for a problem you haven't really been trying to stand up to

Pitiful and delirious nonsense, take your meds you sad bastard.

yes but that would just be known as “anons kills himself”

so its fine.

>haha, that'll show 'em.

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>Even if so, I guess it would still set you at the right direction, wouldn't it?

absolutely, i agree with you on that completely. which is what i believe shinji recognises in EoE.

i think thats a lie.
choosing life means nothing except prolonging suffering.

how are the movies
do you think 3.0 + 1.0 will be EoE tier?

at the chance of experiencing real happiness, and not the indistinguishable version found in instrumentality.

I wish Misato had put the moves on Shinji for real and made him cum in his pants sexually humiliating him this way.

you two need to remember where you are and go seek validation from random strangers somewhere else
I would get a laugh out of it, others would too, do the noble thing, give something back, you would at least pay a shrink instead of shitting on their desk like you've been doing

Well, I guess I might've been simplifying this thought too much initially, but that's basically one of the things that I've been trying to convey, glad we agree

>They don't have values
have we watched the same show?

If kawoshin becomes canon in the rebuilds... i donno bout you but ill throw all my fujo bux at anno and 4.0.

i already know that wont happen for me

fucking asuka and mindbreaking her into a sub is my dream

It will be kino if we learn Shinji was all along a clone of Gendo with Adam's soul and not his real lesson, we could ship him with Rei without any incestuous bullshit.

It will create a kino symbolism between Yui and Gendo, humans who want to become gods and Shinji and Rei, gods who want to become humans.

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You're getting selfcest

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maybe it would. but you only remind of those who hurt me. so i see no reason to do what you want.

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what the fuck was their problem?

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honestly that would be pretty kino

grow up kid

Why ppl like Asuka when shes the worst kind of thot who openly disrespects poor Shinji and wants nothing but getting dicked down by gigachad Kaiji.

I maybe misunderstanding something, but what values had Rei had before she met Shinji?

that's just it though, none of us know that. i dont know, i dont even hope, i just believe in possibility.

that's pretty cool

that's slimy, don't try and pin your spinelessness on me, your life is an example of your failure, not being able to end it is part of that
can you give me an oof and yikes just for good measure newnigger

i never denied that. i am spineless

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>and wants nothing but getting dicked down by gigachad Kaiji.
She doesn't, she just wants to be more mature and self-reliable and tries to get closer to Kaji to prove herself that she possess those qualities

i have a hard-on for cold, passive women.

nah, move on kiddo

What makes you think so? Shes just a horny cocklusting thot in my book

>She also laughs at the possibility of him being dead.

You do realize she does that because she genuinely cared about him and his well-being but can't admit that to herself or others, and so she overreacts to hide it and convince herself otherwise, right? Hell, her entire character is saying one thing outwardly but wanting something else inwardly.

That's why she sneaks around Shinji's room. She wants to confirm that he is okay but is too scared to show a vulnerable side in which she actually cares about the well being of another.

>No, he says "Asuka, I'm glad you're okay" to which she proceeds to yell at him saying something to the effect of "I'm obviously not okay you retard!" It was pretty insensitive of Shinji to assume she was okay.

Shinji is awful in social situations. He literally doesn't have the capacity to go any deeper than what he said in conversation because of his own fears. It's not like he was trying to be insensitive.

>You do realize she does that because
She already showed she cared earlier when she looked hesitant about retreating while Shinji was still in Leliel's shadow.
She's being intentionally spiteful and bitter because she's in part frustrated that he's been consistently beating her in piloting - the one thing she based her entire self worth on. Her interaction with Rei spells this out for you.

>It's not like he was trying to be insensitive.
I never said he was. But it would seem like that to Asuka.
Shinji only sees her on a superficial level. He never really tries to understand her, again, this is also something that is outright told to you in the show/eoe.

No other relationship had the duality of love and hate that the one between Asuka and Shinji did. Well, maybe not love, but a desire for closeness and understanding, so to speak.
Their relationship was based off of both of them wanting to be close with another person but their own mutual self-hatred, similar fears and directly opposing coping mechanisms made it impossible for the two of them to get emotionally close.

I can't think of a single other relationship that shows the want for emotional closeness being stopped by personal fears and trauma as well as Shinji and Asuka's besides that of Kaji and Misato.

After her mother kills herself, Asuka decides not to closely engage with people as she thinks that she doesn't need anyone and can do anything on her own, so she tries to be more independent and therefore mature, and the fact that she wants Kaji to see her as an adult reveals in the dialogue between them

Glad we agree, you will never end it because you are spineless, you are worthless and don't deserve others care, you are a waste of space and shouldn't have to be seen nor heard. Now fuck off
Thats a shame. I wanted to see a nigger twitter gif response at least. The poor huddled masses you've been protecting can't look up to such a feeble effort. Maybe I have you all wrong, a minions reaction more your speed? At least one ifunny image I beg of you

go to bed kid

>No other relationship had the duality of love and hate
Misato and her father
Misato and Kaji
Ritsuko and Gendo
>I can't think of a single other relationship that shows the want for emotional closeness being stopped by personal fears and trauma
Misato and Shinji
Misato and Kaji
Shinji and Touji
Ritsuko and Gendo
Gendo and Shinji
Rei and herself (Lilith)
Asuka and Hikari

I wish he had in Rei or Asuka.

embarrassing

>Their relationship was based off of both of them wanting to be close with another person but their own mutual self-hatred, similar fears and directly opposing coping mechanisms made it impossible for the two of them to get emotionally close.

This is literally the character arc for every single person in the show.
Misato, Asuka, Shinji, and even Gendo can be described as having this as their main issue.
You're daft if you're going to ignore everyone else and pretend that this theme isn't visible in a majority of the relationships in the show.

>She already showed she cared earlier when she looked hesitant about retreating while Shinji was still in Leliel's shadow.
Absolutely. She hated that he was beating her as a pilot. That part of her overtook her when she was arguing with Rei. I'm sure part of her frustrations at Shinji for acting recklessly were genuine, but I feel it was mostly a mask to hide her concern.
The entire snooping around in the Hospital scene can be seen as an admittance of her guilt for over-reacting while also showing she still cares about Shinji and his well being.

>I never said he was. But it would seem like that to Asuka.
Shinji only sees her on a superficial level. He never really tries to understand her, again, this is also something that is outright told to you in the show/eoe.
I agree.

She wants Kaiji to see her as an adult because she wants the D
She feels like only the biggest Chad she knows is worthy of her affection thats why she treats everyone else like shit. Also, she wants to spite Misato by seducing her bf.

>>I can't think of a single other relationship that shows the want for emotional closeness being stopped by personal fears and trauma

You conveniently left off my
>as well

I never denied any other relationship explores those themes. If you actually read my comment you'd realize I didn't think any other one explored it as well.

If you agree then why even respond

Why exactly is Misato hating herself? I couldnt really concentrate on her character developement desu

I never implied no other relationship didn't explore those themes. I said I felt Asuka and Shinji explored them better than others.

Misato and Shinji comes close but the 'emotional want' they wanted from one another was different than what Shinji and Asuka wanted from one another.

>I didn't think any other one explored it as well.
Then you'd be wrong.
Shinji running away from Toji by never visiting him again after his piloting accident and Shinji distancing himself when he heard Misato crying over Kaji on the phone are prime examples of what you're listing.
Shinji/Toji's relationship receives an equal amount of screentime and focus as Shinji/Asuka.
Shinji/Misato's relationship receives x5 more than them and is the primal relationship/dynamic/parallel in the show. Anno wasn't lying when he said the show stars the two of them as the heroes.

Because I generally disagree on the first part. I think her over-reaction was more of a way to mask her concern in front of Rei than anything else.

currently reading the manga on my kindle. top comfy.

Rewatch episode 15 when she's walking home with Kaji. She hates herself for the exact same reasons as Shinji hates himself, she admits they're the same fundamentally.

>She wants Kaiji to see her as an adult because she wants the D
Other way around, she tries to attract him sexually only when all other ways fail
>She feels like only the biggest Chad she knows is worthy of her affection thats why she treats everyone else like shit
Kind of, but that's because she wants to establish and confirm her supremacy to all other people in order to prove and secure, yet again, her independence
>Also, she wants to spite Misato by seducing her bf
She didn't even know who Misato was when she started doing this stuff, and didn't know that Kaji and Misato had mutual feelings towards each other for even longer

But Rei's accusation and Asuka's response shows that it was about piloting and Asuka venting her frustrations.
Why would she need to mask her concern when she shows concern quite obviously just a few minutes before that? And even later in the episode? (Before the hospital scene)
This isn't even the first time when she's shown concern for him and Rei as well in battle. She's fully capable of showing she cares about their well-being in combat.

You literally cannot know that. Just do anything that would improve your life. Literally anything. Make you bed, get up early, get a good nights sleep, eat better. Literally any amount of effort. Now go fuck off and stop blogging

all those things are pointless items of routine.

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>but the 'emotional want' they wanted from one another was different than what Shinji and Asuka wanted from one another.
Not at all. The 'emotional want' everyone in the series is searching for is validation from another. This validation can take many forms (familial, romantic, sexual, friendship, etc.) but it's still the same thing at the end of the day.

No relationship conveyed the theme better than another just because the validations/type of relationship was different.
Unless you're seriously arguing that Shinji/Toji (friendship) is somehow lesser than Shinji/Asuka (sexual tension) because friendship < sexual tension in your eyes? That's a very warped way of looking at the world, both relationships can be equally important to someone.

When you don’t do them and you finally do they can give you a structure that you can build on.

back to /pol/ Jordon Peterson

Shinji/Toji and their own various 'issues' with one another in attempting to get close pales in comparison to Shinji and Asuka trying to get close. Shinji/Asuka actively push each other away while Shinji/Toji are more or less best friends who never fight, and only at the end in the Hospital does Shinji have any real trouble in showing his concern for Toji.

Hell, Toji barely has any trouble getting close with Shinji because of his own trauma once they were established as friends.

Shinji/Misato definitely explored it very well, I cannot deny that.

I don’t use /pol/ it full of autist edgelords. And saying it’s the meme psychologist doesn’t refute it

>Shinji/Toji and their own various 'issues' with one another in attempting to get close pales in comparison to Shinji and Asuka trying to get close
How so?
Toji in the beginning refuses to understand Shinji's PoV because of his own 'truth' that Shinji hurt his sister. Through taking the initiate to learn more about what Shinji is going through he learns to understand him.
In the end Shinji doesn't do the same for him, he's so consumed by guilt and a tendency to run away from anything troublesome that he refuses to see Toji ever again after the piloting incident.
Just like his actions with Asuka, this is another example of the theme of communication that encompasses the entire show.

The hedgehog dileema is straight up used in the show to refer specifically to Toji and Shinji, not to say it can't be attributed to other relationships like Shinji/Asuka - because it can. But it definitely doesn't pale in comparison because it's portrayed in a different light.

I actually was quite surprised how much different it is from anime, especially with Shinji's character

No, I just think Shinji/Asuka explored it better because there was more time and 'conflict 'invested into it than most others, besides maybe Shinji/Misato, although this one has less 'conflict' between the two.
I don't think Shinji's relationship with Toji explored it better than Misato or Asuka's because once they were established as friends, they basically just hung out without any conflict up until Shinji wusses out from seeing him in the Hospital again.

At least with Misato the entire mother/boss dynamic is going on which creates a lot of conflict throughout.
With Asuka, the mutual want for affection is there but they are both massively traumatized and mentally ill in comparison to most other characters, and so the duality of love and hate in their relationship is much more prevalent than in say, his friendship with Toji. I based my opinion on 'displaying the themes better' based on how prevalent that duality was, as the entire theme is finding love and happiness within reality despite the pain and rejection you will inevitably experience. Their mutual attraction and the times they accidentally hurt each other out of their own fears encompasses this well.

i wish she was my mom

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see There doesn't need to be double-sided conflict to convey the themes well.
Shinji acting the same way towards everyone in his life conveys it well enough.

Evangelion is not about a duality between love and hate, it's about communication with other beings in general.

youtu.be/mdBl_LKsMks?t=555

Just what the fuck is this pillar doing exactly?

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I think this way because once they are established after the initial fight, they have no more glaring issues that further explore or push the Hedgehog's Dilemma. At least up until Shinji bails from the hospital because he is too scared of seeing the friend he hurt with basically his own hands.

I'm not trying to downplay it, I just think there aren't enough of times where the conflict of the Hedgehog's Dilemma comes into play with Toji and Shinji as compared to with Misato and Asuka. And that's perfectly fine.

One of the arguments i see contrarianfags use is
>name one thing eva did that other shows didnt do better

What other show ever did anything similar to the instrumentality part.

>*blocks your third impact*

>”Unknown AT field detected, my god its stronger than the Lilith entity!”

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I don't think there needs to be constant conflict to represent the hedgehog's dilemma. That just wouldn't be realistic.
There are many lighthearted moments in the show, where even Asuka and Shinji get along just fine and any issues they have are not present in those interactions. There are ups and downs to the characters and their relationships with others.

For instance, Toji and Asuka are always bickering with each other more than any other two characters in the show. I doubt Anno meant anything by that other than it's just a gag.

The hedgehog dilemma and broader themes of the show are not best represented in any one relationship, but in Shinji himself and how he relates to others. At the end of the day, he acts the same to Toji, Misato, and Asuka - that is, running away when it's convenient and ignoring their personal problems for his own selfish whims.

>Evangelion is not about a duality between love and hate, it's about communication with other beings in general.
Communication with other beings in general is really really broad a topic and not something that can really be considered a theme.

It is all about seeking happiness and acceptance in the real world in spite of pain and rejection. You can substitute my 'love and hate' duality for 'acceptance and rejection' and it would probably read better.

This theme is literally animated at the end of EoE on the beach scene with the 'One more Final: I Need You.' Shinji chokes Asuka as a symbol for rejection in the world, while Asuka lovingly caresses Shinji back as a counter argument saying that despite this, acceptance and love can still coexist in that misery. They need each other to truly be happy as you cannot be an individual without another to compare and contrast yourself to, and the reality is going down this route will make you hurt at times, but the hope for real happiness and understanding with others makes the pain worth it.

How Shinji will react when he'll learn about Toji and Rei?

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god i wish i was a girl

>It is all about seeking happiness and acceptance in the real world in spite of pain and rejection
This is EoE's theme. NGE is more about learning to love oneself, which is the last scene of the show.
Albeit broad, you can sum up Evangelion to being about communication with others and oneself.

It doesn't need to be constant, I just don't think there were enough instances and ways of exploring it with Toji as with Misato/Asuka.

I agree with the Toji/Asuka thing, and I feel it's mostly because both of them really didn't want anything out of the other person. Toji only cared about his bros and his sister and Asuka didn't want any genuine affection or ego validation from him like she did with other characters.

Your last point is fair. I personally more meaning in Asuka and Shinji's relationship because of their constant bickering and the duality of wanting each other yet also pushing each other away.

A lot of NGE was about escapism and running away from reality, not just 'learning to love yourself.' Both themes are prevalent in NGE, and the culmination of it in EoTV with Shinji spiritually rejecting Instrumentaltiy can both be seen as 'learning to love yourself' and 'refusing to run away from reality' so both themes are prevalent.

I think learning to love yourself and rejecting escapism go hand in hand either way, you kind of need a bit of one to have the other.

Literally my wife

>I doubt Anno meant anything by that other than it's just a gag.
Then how come he made them fug in EoE?
Must have been real awkward for Asuka's VA and Toji's VA to be forced in skimpy clothing in a futon together.

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fuck off wifehaver

So they fugg after?

Smug loli Rei isn't the same as teen Rei though

>because of their constant bickering
But they don't constantly bicker. A lot of the time Shinji just takes it in silence.
If Asuka constantly bickers with anyone, it's Toji. He's really the only one who consistently bites back against her.

Bro I'm saying this now.
Go out into the wilderness and go exploring.
You might be alone but if you have a plan on where to go you'll feel better.
Nothing helps to pick me up like a walk in the woods.

Hell, some people wouldn't recommend it, but I might try (mild) shrooms in your position.

Escapism was touched upon in NGE, but it definitely was not the main theme like it is in EoE. Because EoE is more of a response to the audience/has instances of meta in it that were completely absent from NGE.

By 'learning to love yourself' I mean accepting yourself and thereby accepting others. Throughout the series Shinji could not come to terms with who he was and what his reality was, and he comes to the revelation that this can change in ep 26.
Although Shinji often runs away from reality (via the Eva, via his SDAT) the show does not tell you running away is bad.

youtu.be/y8UgHNjPYZM?t=1m30s

what is sex like

Like I said, I think it's a bit of both, but with Shinji gone and basically dead now, I feel like she would feel on overdrive emotionally and so over-react when this meek boy she genuinely cares about is gone, seemingly for good. She would obviously want to express herself in some way, but worry and grieving would be out of the question.
She never openly shows concern for others, she always tries to hide it behind some deniability. Just like when she sneaks into Shinji's room and runs away when they spot her. She doesn't want to be seen as somebody that relies on or cares too much about others because of that facade she puts on to repress her desperate desire for companionship.

I'm not aware of the other two ways she openly shows concern in that episode.

Shinji actually talks back quite a lot to Asuka before the downward spiral act starts, and even a few episodes into it. The more important thing is that Shinji hurts Asuka because of his pilot skills crushing her pillar of self worth and him constantly ignoring or not 'getting' her feeble attempts at showing affection or a want of understanding.

Considering at this point in time they are the only two people left and they literally just re-enacted the central theme of EoE with the choke/caress, plus the title card of One more Final, I think it looks bright for them to grow as people and form a strong bond. Whether that be as friends, soul mates, lovers, etc. is ambiguous.

Not at all, rewatch the show. In Japanese.
There are instances of bickering, but there is a much greater tendency in Shinji sitting there and taking it. It's another aspect of Shinji that infuriates Asuka so much.

It's more evident when you have some familiarity with Japanese, Shinji's voice is feminine, quiet, and soft in his responses to Asuka. Most importantly, it's dismissive.

I watched it in Japanese with subs. I'm not saying he was macho man randy savage all the time but there were instances where he would argue back with her, he did not just sit down and take it 100% of the time.

>She never openly shows concern for others
I'm sorry, but this just isn't true.
She shows concern for Rei, Misato, Shinji, Hikari, and even Toji multiple times in the show.
There's going to be a 'tsuntsun' gag moment here and there but Asuka is not just some cold bitch all the time. She's genuinely friendly at times, too.

I never said 100% of the time.
>There are instances of bickering, but there is a much greater tendency in Shinji sitting there and taking it. It's another aspect of Shinji that infuriates Asuka so much.

The moments of Shinji taking it are far more frequent than when he talks back.

Considering Shinji's entire coping mechanism is escapism via the Eva, via the SDAT, via running away when the situation gets too hard for him and this is portrayed in a negative light, even having him constantly repeating the words 'I musn't run away' multiple times, I would say it was very important. It was the central reason why the main character was as fucked up as he is, on top of not knowing how to love himself.

Fair, agreed

>Their entire relationship was used to explore the human condition
Then how come Anno erased Asuka in Rebuild and made her a minor character in Shikinami?

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But he doesn't run away all the time. He still comes back to pilot the Eva.
The "I musn't run away" is somewhat of a catchphrase for him in the first 10 episodes but is rarely said again throughout the rest of the show.
Using escapism is an aspect of his character, like with every character, but I wouldn't call it a major theme nor does Eva say it's bad.

Everyone needs escapism to a certain degree. People might use it by having a beer after a stressful day or work, playing vidya after a hard test at school, etc. Humans need a way to cope and deal with reality. Escapism can be an important tool to live a happy and healthy life not completely filled with stress.
Escapism by itself isn't bad, only when you overly use it to the point of hurting others and yourself.
Too much of anything is unhealthy, everything needs to be taken in moderation.

Again, I think it was mostly her overreacting emotionally because her friend and comrade that she has strange, mixed feelings for is seemingly dead and gone forever. She even starts by just talking to herself, not even in a conversation with Rei. I always just saw this as a way to cope with her inner feelings so as to not have the admit to herself that she is saddened by the loss of Shinji. She just over-exaggerates her genuine frustrations with his piloting skills and recklessness to help hide that fact and play it off.

At the time Misato accuses herself of using Shinji and being as bad as Ritsuko, Shinji had already woken up hospitalized and agreed to remain as their pilot and stay alone in the provided housing without any encouragement or validation from anywhere. He was already sold on the job before Misato took him with her and started overcompensating at him, then she cancelled him herself for acting like exactly the berserker fodder NERV wanted. Misato's self-image is so poor she thinks she's exploiting him by going above to make him comfortable, she thinks she's defrauding people if they don't think she's a dirty hag.

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The problem wasn't escapism in a vacuum, it is abusing escapism. That is what was harped on. Instrumentality can be seen as the ultimate Escapist orgy since it is a literal retreat from all things reality into a more or less perfect dream-world. In EoTV, Shinji rejects this notion and ideal world with Genki Rei and childhood waifu Asuka for reality, we just never see the consequences after Congratulations.

>She even starts by just talking to herself, not even in a conversation with Rei.
She does the same in the locker room scene, fakely blabbing about how Shinji-sama is so awesome that Rei and Asuka don't have to do anything anymore.
It's clearly a way for her to vent her own frustration at being incompetent and not #1 in the one thing she's placed her entire self-worth in.

I don't see much evidence for your interpretation given her reaction to Rei's accusation is all about piloting, how she does it for herself. Throughout the episode we don't see Asuka being overly worried, and her first reaction at seeing Shinji is okay is not relief or happiness, but Asuka asking Misato "Weren't you going to scold him?"

I'm not saying she doesn't care, she's not heartless. But the main thing that drives her words and actions has always been on her self-esteem since the very first episode. Not Shinji.

>it is abusing escapism
Yes, but I'm saying this wasn't a major theme until EoE.
>Shinji rejects this notion and ideal world
The ideal world wasn't instrumentality, it was an example that there can be various different realities and that Shinji can change himself and how he sees himself.

>blue hair
>red eyes
ew.

sometimes she just needs to unstress

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You know I just re watched it and I'm inclined to agree. It seems much more like she is getting more and more frustrated with Shinji and his piloting skills overtaking hers, on top of her growing frustrations of him being too dense to reciprocate or understand her advances. She also seemingly gets upset at Misato breaking down and crying for Shinji, possibly upset that she doesn't have anybody that cares about her as much as Misato does nor does her ego like the 'weakness' in that show of emotion.

And then the creeping into the Hospital scene seems more of an 'apology' or just her feeling guilty for over-reacting so much and that she still cares about Shinji, although in her own plausibly deniable away.

Oh they do happen sometimes, just not in threads that begin with waifufagging. Some of the lore and character discussion threads go pretty comfortably

Asuka and Shinji are literally foils of each other, two sides of the same coin. That's pretty important for exploring the Hedgehog's Dilemma. No other relationship in the show has two completely diametrically opposed characters like Shinji and Asuka in terms of their own problems and how they cope with them.

Not to say that those other relationships aren't important, but only a few of them come close at exploring the Hedgehog's Dilemma in my opinion

Her first reaction was being there, approaching the berserker that just gorily erupted back into the universe, leaving her own Eva, and arriving at the ejected plug ahead of the decontamination team in the beekeeper armor. But behind Misato, who must have been on an elevator before 01 had stopped roaring and sprinted the rest of the way.

Every character can be seen as a foil to Shinji to some extent.
The biggest foil to Shinji in the entire show is Misato, this isn't even debatable. Not only are they a parallel to each other, but their relationships with others are a parallel.

The hedgehog's dilemma is brought up in the episode with Toji and Shinji, before Asuka even appears and then it is never namedropped again. I'm not arguing that it can't be applied to their relationship, because it certainly can. But it is not the only one to explore it, absolutely not.

Because a lot of anons in this thread haven't rewatched the show in a while and forget that Asuka didn't get nearly as much focus and screentime as they believe she did.

I don't know why Anno made her a minor character in Rebuild, maybe because she couldn't be used to tell the message he wanted to tell this time around.

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>Misato is a bigger foil to Shinji than Asuka

How?
Shinji and Asuka both have the same fear of rejection but cope with it in completely opposite ways. Shinji copes by running away while Asuka copes by pushing away others. Shinji is meek and introverted and Asuka is loud and extroverted. Shinji openly expresses what he wants from other people (love and affection) while Asuka desperately hides it. Shinji hates to pilot the Eva yet it is the only thing that Asuka lives for.

What do you see in Misato that is a foil to Shinji? Misato copes through sex, booze and hedonism and is basically a mother/guardian figure to Shinji. She absolutely plays a humongous, important role in the exploration of the Hedgehog's Dilemma, I'm not trying to downplay it. I just cannot see how you think she is a foil, especially on par with Asuka.

>The hedgehog's dilemma is brought up in the episode with Toji and Shinji, before Asuka even appears and then it is never namedropped again

That is kind of irrelevant considering all of the questions and themes explored in the show (intimacy, love, individuality, insecurity, coping methods, etc) can all be summed up by the metaphor of the Hedgehog's Dilemma.

>while Asuka copes by pushing away others
She doesn't push away others, she deliberately puts on a facade to ATTRACT OTHERS. She needs others to look at her and validate her, that's why she acts so loud and extroverted in the first place. As she says herself during her mindrape, that's not who she really is.
>while Asuka desperately hides it
Yeah, Asuka telling Kaji to look at her and not treat her like a child shows how much she's desperately hiding it.

>What do you see in Misato that is a foil to Shinji?
How about the fact that Misato herself compares herself to Shinji in episode 15? Rewatch the scene with her breaking down in front of Kaji. She says she's just like him, running away from others like Kaji because she's afraid of the truth, of herself, and of reality.
Her relationship with her father is compared to Shinji's relationship with his.
Her relationship with Kaji is compared to Shinji's relationship with Asuka and later Kaworu.

Pic related, Anno emphasizes that Misato and Shinji's relationship is the biggest parallel/foil in the show. From episode 1 to the very end.

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>Interviewer: It might be that they can’t see an ending like that as anything other than running away. It might be that, even though he’d been saying that he mustn’t run away, they can’t help but think of him as having run for it.

>Anno: I wonder why people are saying that, “You can’t run away!” is a theme.

>Interviewer: What?! …Well, if you put it like that. *laughs* Well, then Shinji-kun isn’t always limited to being right, is he?

>Anno: That’s true. Why does everyone assume that what the protagonist says and does is right, I wonder?

>Interviewer: Huh. The protagonist did say, “It would have been okay to run away.”

>Anno: Yeah. That’s the theme. It’s okay to run away.

i wish i was Rei

Literally Hitler

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Could be because everyone would have just died if Shinji had nigecha'd any of the times another character offered to let him, he did brave and self-affirming things when he convinced himself dame da instead, and your ending was to carry on after stopping to consider self-annihilation, which is just about the purest strain of running away.

She puts on a facade to get nothing besides surface level validation. Her entire character is based around being a mature woman who doesn't need to rely on others so she never has to be put in an emotionally vulnerable situation where relying or loving another person can hurt her. To this end, she never admits her own feelings of genuine want for affection and help. Whenever she lets herself become vulnerable (kissing Shinji, telling him about her step-mom) she always follows up with calling him names and pushing him further away so as to not admit this want for emotional support.

As for Kaji, I think he is a special case since he embodies her image of wanting to be an adult. She pines after him so much because him reciprocating would be the ultimate evidence to convince herself she is indeed an adult. He is basically the ultimate endgame. To be fair I'm not sure if she was ever looking for any emotional support/help in Kaji as opposed to straight sexual validation.

Foils are supposed to contrast, not compare by the way, so I'm not sure what you are getting at with Misato. Shinji and Misato are mirrors. Mirrors are not foils, they are opposite. Anno literally says nothing about foils in that interview neither, so again, not sure what you are getting at.

why is that user

Kaworu causes the 2nd impact
Shinji causes the 3rd impact

In rebuild Kaworu and Shinji together cause the 3rd impact

i wish i was a girl.

In hindsight though, Asuka is more histrionic than anything. Super prideful on the outside, always wanting to be the center of attention, the best pilot, basically not replaceable. But all of that was just a facade because she is deathly afraid of rejection and abandonment.

I guess 'pushing others away' doesn't really apply as a blanket statement. The only person she really 'pushes away', as I said, was Shinji because she needed an excuse for showing vulnerability in her many interactions with him.

EIther way, the coping mechanisms are completely different and opposites. Shinji becomes avoidant, while Asuka tries to be the center of attention. Complete contrast.

you and me both

>Shinji and Misato are mirrors. Mirrors are not foils, they are opposite
They both compare and contrast. Like with Shinji and Asuka, they cope in different ways but they are all fundamentally the same at their cores.

absolutely true

I brought up the distinction because user above was trying to claim Misato was a foil to Shinji when she was more akin to a mirror.

I don't disagree with you. Shinji and Asuka are complete foils who are opposites in almost every way except for the key similarity of both of them wanting the same thing, genuine love.

Anyone count how many Reis died in the first series? I'm sure you could pause the frames and count.

not enuf

>someone that could be loved by anyone
>an incredibly good person

I know one of these people at work, 'that' kind of love just ends up as extremely creepy almost stalker like autistic behavior.

why did Rei left Shinji alone with Asuka? was she retarded?

And it was, half the episode was about how suspiciously he behaved, him saying weird stuff, and how isolated Shinji was. But Anno's a sperg himself and he has those stories about creeping on female seiyuu, so I'd almost believe he did mean for it to come off better, if not for the scripts he rejected that didn't include that atmosphere at all.

being an eva pilot can be really stressful

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i want to be Rei’s castrated slave boy

Shinji was the one stalking Kaworu in ep 24, not the other way around.
And it's still incredibly toned down from the original drafts, where Shinji is straight up yandere for him.

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To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Evangelion. The characterization of Shinji is extremely complex, and without a solid grasp of psychology most of his deliberations will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Rei's autistic outlook, which is deftly woven into her characterisation- her personal philosophy draws heavily from Isaac Asimov's opus, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these characters, to realise that they're not just interesting- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Evangelion truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Asuka's existential catchphrase "Anta baka!?" which itself is a cryptic reference to Fiodor Dostoievski's Russian novel "The idiot". I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Hideaki Anno's genius wit unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools.. how I pity them.

And yes, by the way, i DO have a NERV tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid

Holy shit am I this board's only Misatofag?

Are there any other anime that do dramatic pauses as well as evangelion

Despite what people would like to make you believe, Asuka is an extremely one note character contrary to Shinji, Misato and Rei. Either she learns from her mistakes or she doesn't. Her flaws are her personality, so there isn't much to go by after that.

This, for fucks sake, Anno want you all to grow the fuck up, waifus dont matter, get out, have a life you fucking incels.

>waifus dont matter
someone crucify this son of a bitch

Ok ok, waifus DOES matter, but only if they are Ramiel or Leliel.

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Can you watch the first 10min of 4.0 anywhere?

3.0+1.0*
Its on youtube
youtube.com/watch?v=r2UKYBNSRaI

You also might wanna watch the teaser, until you come to me and peaceful times as they contain parts of the final film
youtube.com/watch?v=_hymjQCgeHk
youtube.com/watch?v=5FgLgRjCLJY
youtube.com/watch?v=G1umuJ4BlI0

oh damn, thanks!

>Make the same mistake as with EVA 3.33 and have an overly long and flashy fight scene with barely any context that is a cancer to the eyes
Shit.

New trailer posted for 3.0+1.0 Called trailer 2.5.

Instead of despairing Rei and Fuyusuki after the long Wunder shot we are shown a new shot of Eva Unit-08 now called Unit 8γ (gamma).

It appears to be down in the cluster of Failures of Infinity, but things are noticeably calm and it has a purple hue, very interesting shot. I wonder if Unit 08 seen in the first 10 minutes is the Gamma version after it's repairs from the end of 3.0 or if it changes during the new film.

Feel like we're going to be getting more trailers with that one shot replaced with some new.

>It appears to be down in the cluster of Failures of Infinity
I see bodies whipping around Wunder in the cut before, kinda making patterns in front of Guf, but that's just particles in the purple.

>there's not a single image of asuka dabbing
why

I wonder what would have happened if Shinji had been the one hit by Arael's mind rape beam.

He'd be back after a sleep and then deny seeing anything.

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I'm not going to watch the shitty movies. Someone redpill me on this scene. Is it real? Is she really fishing?

its from a visual novel iirc

Man the original drafts were so gay
>SHINJI: To tell you the truth, I was avoiding you. Next to you, I'm such a pathetic excuse for a person…… I feel like I'm going to go crazy when I'm with you, but, when I can't see you…… I feel so, so anxious…… And when I thought about how you shouldn't spend your life with someone as pathetic as me…… I just felt like dying……

I'm not 100% sure on that.. It might just be how the cgi clusters look. A few spots, such as directly beside the Units left shoulder look human shaped.

you know a while back in highschool I met a guy who knew my buddies. he was an asuka die hard waifufag, and I liked rei, and he told me that one day when I got older I would see things different. he was like 29 so I just thought he was talking out his ass. but now my tastes have changed and I like asuka. god damn he was right

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>shinji was being so gay kaworu of all people had to tell him to cut it out

Same happened to me. Last time I watched Eva was in summer 2009. I just got out of high-school. Rei-fag all the way. 10 years later now 29 and I realize Asuka was the better choice.

What does it all mean?

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Wait, are you trying to tell me that the Positron rifle that they pulled out of storage to kill ramiel with, was actually intended to be for this thing? and i assume, because of the Vatican Treaty they had to shelve it

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I want to comfort you, Asuka.

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maybe as we get older we get better taste

are there any ritsuko, maya or hikarifags?

I had both an Asuka and now a Rei GF. And let me tell you.... Rei is vastly superior. Asuka GF seems ok, until their unstable personality goes nuts on you.
My current GF is very endeering. She lets me do whatever I want, never says anything but has an otherwhise kind and wonderful personality. I think she might have autism. My ex had BPD, and I identified many traits of hers in Asuka. These girls are ticking bombs, trust me.

this is unironically one of the best ideas ive ever seen
I'd actually want something like this but with some differences like shinji still developed inside of Yui for some additional symbolism about how we create our own gods

>BPD
asuka is more narcissist/histrionic

It's starting..
The unfunny Facebook memes.

BPDs often have strong narcisstic traits. Some speculate that males with the "same illness" will lean more towards classic NPD, while females become more chaotic with BPD. My BPD-Ex often had extreme superiority feelings and narcisstic episodes, then eventually turning into the exact opposite.
Of course there is also high commorbidity in cluster b disorders.

did she ever anta baka'd you.

Source on that gay shit?

Google Eva episode 24 drafts
There are two that Anno released to the public in 1996

Well, she was verbally abusive and called me stupid and an idiot I guess.

But all is fine. Because my new girl is just so much better. I just need to explicitly give her orders. Basic things like hugging and cuddling, require me to often tell her to "wrap her arms around me", or place her legs like so and so. And then I sometimes still have to help her do it the way I want.

Yep that sounds like Rei.

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cant believe Kaworu is going to win , AGAIN

Thanks. And holy fuck these are gay, this is some straight up shounen ai shit lmao.

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Shinji is a small guy

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I also knew one of these people. She proclaimed her love for me the first week we got to know each other. Naturally it all turned out to be a big fat lie and a charade of two-facednes and back stabbing. Always stay alert of somebody says they love you even though they barely know you.

I feel you. I've been the product of an accident. I really hate my parents for not going with the abortion. Now I have to do it all myself, as it has always been.

Anno didn't write those, he commissioned them from another writer and rejected them flat. They do not represent Anno's vision by any means.

mari should have been a boy to compete with kaworu

Just how i like em'.....

Faggy.

Same exact circumstances. Rewatched it for the second time recently and don't know why I used to value Rei so much before.

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It's the opposite for me. I was an Asukafag when I first watched Eva, now I've been finding myself valuing Rei a lot more than in the past.

I want to comfort you, Asuka.

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Why did Asuka like Shinji? She was attracted to him and desperately wanted him to help and comfort her (although he was too passive to ever really understand her), but why Shinji? He's not mature, he's meek, he's passive, she hates parts of him because she sees her subconscious self in them, etc.

Is it just straight up hormones and being forced to live, breathe, shit, and fight deadly monsters with him everyday for weeks on end? Maybe partly she recognizes the two of them are very similar and basically the same person at the core? Him being not the ideal choice but the only choice out of the options she had?

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I want to comfort you, Asuka.

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Who the hell come up with this overdesigned, tacky shit?

You can say THE SAME THING about asuka fags. Just look at the first posts of every Rei thread.

I want to comfort you, Asuka

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What is this?

They didn't love each other and I'm not sure about her being the closest to real love when Yui and Kaworu exist. Hell, they truly loved nobody, except maybe Shinji and Kaworu but that is a whole other bag of worms. Asuka hated parts of Shinji that she saw as the unconscious shadow of herself (his insecurity and constant need for other people's love).
They were attracted to each other sexually, selfishly, emotionally and probably a bit romantically. Asuka especially desperately wanted an emotional connection with Shinji. She wanted him to help, hold and comfort her, but Shinji's passivity and her unwillingness to properly explain herself to Shinji is the prime cause of their miscommunication. That miscommunicatiom doesn't allow them to build a strong foundation as friends or anything else. She also hated the feelings she harbored for Shinji and projected that hatred onto him

I agree with you on all EoE things though, their last scene was a microcosm of the duality of acceptance and rejection and it shows they are able to change. They need each other and now have the hope and possibility to grow deeper as friends or possibly something more.

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how do we call this kind of tits? Gally from Battle Angel Alita has the same kind.

Big, full and perky.

I hate to be an autistic retard but Rei is fairly flat so like why do these weeb artist love to add tits that weren’t there at least in NGE

Based and worthypilled

>Rei is fairly flat
No, she's not. I'm a dfcfag and I would love if that were the case, but Rei is nowhere close to flat or even small. Neither is Asuka, in NGE at least, for that matter.

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He doesn't exist. His character's point is one who is so perfect and wonderful it's unrealistic.

Anno doesn't have the balls. 90% expect Kaworu will come back and survive as a friend.

I meant mostly just smaller compared to some of the others like asuka. But every artist does it like the opposite and it’s really triggers my autism.

I feel like I'm the only one whose favourite is ritsuko and that's a good thing!

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I rewatched the last two episodes last night. I completely forgot about this scene. Isn't there a manga spin off that focuses on this reality presented in the show?

Yes, it's called Angelic days. The canon is all messed up there. IIRC Yui is still alive, Kaworu is a childhood friend, Asuka and Rei are openly into Shinji and there's way less angel fighting

Anno will never let Shinji have a canon relationship with Kaworu, it would go against the themes of the show. Kaworu's purpose it to be an idealistic deus ex machina who teaches Shinji about love and hope. Shinji then must apply these lessons taught by Kaworu to the 'real world' with actual human beings, not Eldritch God's.

Shinji and Kaworu having a relationship would be retarded since Shinji wouldn't have to learn to navigate the ambiguity and insecurity of relationships with other imperfect individuals since his husbando unconditionally loves him without Shinji having to lift a finger or reciprocate emotionally.

>every artist does it like the opposite and it's really triggers my autism
As long as they don't change her body type making her proportions huge and unrealistic I'm talking about Mogudan Rei I don't mind it oo much. That goes for Asuka, as well.
That said, I do like when the girls are portrayed with thinner and more realistic proportions, they're teenagers after all. Rebuild does a good job at this. There are some scenes in NGE where the girls, especially Asuka, are drawn with impossibly thin waists and huge busts, it's not a problem when you're watching the anime but looks goofy if you stare at it for too long. That's just a stylistic choice, though, and it was common at the time. Still not as bad as drawing them like thick titty-monsters.

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You mean there are angels? What?

I don't remember where I originally found them since it's apparently saved in 2002, but I finally looked and it's seems to be from one of two alternate openings to Kodomo no Omocha.

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>Kaworu will come back and survive as a friend.
Nah, it will be another "canon gay but one of them dies" ending that I bet my money on.

That’s scene causes my autism to be triggered as well. I just want fairly normally looking athletic characters with normal proportions.

youtube.com/watch?v=rjSyKX-hpQs
It is. Thanks.

>I just want fairly normally looking athletic characters with normal proportions
I imagine Asuka would be lean and quite athletic for her age, while Rei would still be a little bit "softer", I think it fits her character. When it comes to piloting an Eva synch rate is more important than physical prowess, after all.

At some point when they change their body type and personality so much, why even bother calling them the same characters?

Anno didn’t write any of the episodes, and your entirely wrong about rejecting. Satsukawa wrote these drafts after Anno told him what he wanted, every episode goes through multiple drafts but Anno specifically decided to release these two to the public.

Yeah I just don’t get the bust shit because I’m the times I rewatch it when they have just a basic outline/silhouette of each of the girls Asuka just look like she’s got a bigger bust. Just annoys my caveman brain.
And I agree for the most part with Asuka being more fit and lean most likely compared to Rei

There are still angels and they're still pilots. But much more time is devoted to his personal life and school life.

>Kaworu dies and comes back and dies again

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Shinji will get killed off and Kaworu will replace him as the MC of Eva

And it will be like Madoka

But Kaworu never taught Shinji anything
In both he's loving to Shinji then dies

I don't think that will happen. Kaworu died twice for Shinji. Its out of character for him to let Shinji die.

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Asuka is the childhood friend. That's not a small detail, half the focus is on that relationship and pressure on Asuka to make up her mind about it. Kaoru transferred at the start of the school year to stalk Shinji, Rei came in the middle.

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And the very last page of the manga is Shinji crying over Kaworu being gone.
Even in crappy spin offs where Asuka “wins”, Kaworu is still always the winner of the Shinjibowl. Topkek.

I hate how combative some of you guys are, both of the girls are good.

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That doesn’t stop reifags from making these b8 threads and then Asukafags from responding

Both has always been the superior choice.

Both are good, I just have a preference

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He let Shinji understand idealistic love which he can try to mirror and recreate in his relationships with other real people

on top of being a peer as an eva pilot and the domestic aspect, he went after her when she was having a breakdown over being replaced in ep 9

Fucking cutesy moe shit again?

this man knows what's up

This

i kinda figured rei would probably be at least a bit underweight, with the state of her apartment and all that i can't imagine her diet and routine is too healthy

Was Shinji really desperate for affection?

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Shinji and Kaworu are the only two characters in the show directly based on real people

Yeah, that's what I imagine too. Underweight, but no muscle definition

Kaworu is not a realistic interpretation of a human. He is an idealized space god who can fly and has no personal or emotional needs akin to that of a human

i want to be a girl lile Asuka and Rei :(

Fucking this

He’s directly based off of a real person. The bulk of what he says to Shinji in ep 24 is what was told to Anno in real life. It’s based off Anno’s own experience with another person, that’s as realistic as you can get.

Unironically this

Me too. But I won't force you to agree with it.

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Just because he gives Shinji good advice doesn't mean he's a good representation of a human being. He is an ideal. Human beings are imperfect, ambiguous and insecure.

I'm not trying to downplay his importance btw

What part of directly based on Ikuhara do you not understand?
His words and their entire scenes together are lifted directly from Anno’s own conversation with ikuhara.

Literally not relevant. Kaworu is fucking space jesus. He has no fears, insecurities, emotional needs, wants, ambiguity or any of the other things that makes a human a human. By nature he is not realistic and instead an ideal that is supposed to be striven towards. The closest thing he represents is a mother showing unconditional love to her son no matter what he does or says.

Just saying 'Anno based him off of somebody he knows' doesn't mean he acts like a realistic human being.

Everything you just said fits Ikuhara to a T.

You don’t understand a thing about Kaworu and the point of comparing Angels to Lilim.
You’re as daft as Shinji.

>not getting Kaworu's character this hard
Lmao, you're as blind as Shinji. Just sitting there blushing like a lovestruck schoolgirl and not paying attention to a goddamn thing he says.

If you knew anything about Anno, how much he loves Nausicaa and Devilman - stories about the blurring between humanity and nonhumans - then you'd know that's not what he's saying at all.
Especially since the show goes to great lengths to show you how similar humans and angels are.

“but Kaworu is my boyfriend and took my virginity” -shinji

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Based

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And that person also killed themselves for Anno's sake right? Just because something is "based off of a real something" doesn't mean it can't be idealized when incorporated into a story.

>reaching this far
As usual screeching kaworufags have at most a tangentual conection with reality.

I'm saying that your whole notion that Kaworu and Shinji's relationship is supposed to be unrealistic is absolutely retarded considering it's something that Anno experienced in real life.
Unless you want to argue Ikuhara doesn't exist, you're retarded.

It's a shame Rei didn't morph back into Kaworu when she was falling apart so that Shinji could literally eat his decaying dick.

Stop having such a one-dimensional view of the series and its characters.
If you knew anything about Anno you'd know that he loves challenging what exactly makes a human 'human' in every single one of his works and the works he was inspired by when making Eva.

Falling back to the 's-shut up kaworufag!' retort is immature and unbecoming of you.

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Anno and Ikuhara's relationship has literally nothing to do with Kaworu and Shinji's beyond serving as an inspiration. They are not together as a couple, Ikuhara doesn't live or die for Anno's sake. Anno is maried and he lives his own life while Ikuhara lives his. They don't live or sleep together, they are not blindly in love. They live their separate lives. Ironically by trying to make it into a "realistic" relationship you have downgraded your precious kawoshin into as little as two hetero dudes haviong a single conversation instead of literal "fated soulmates" or one being an "ideal" version of the other, as other delusional kawoshit likes to insist on. You played yourself kid.

How to you get:
>His words and their entire scenes together are lifted directly from Anno’s own conversation with ikuhara.
from whatever bullshit you just spouted?

In the 90s Anno and Ikuhara were in a bath together and had a very long intimate conversation about their lives, struggles, etc.
This is what made it into the episode - so to suggest that Anno made Kaworu show care for Shinji and saying he's deserving of kindness to portray it as unrealistic is astonishing considering that very thing happened to him in real life with Ikuhara.

I said nothing about lovers or soulmates, imagine being so triggered by Kaworufags you go into a rant about soulmates and lovers and shit when no one even mentioned such a thing.

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Stop acting like a retard and thinking in such simplistic, literal and black-and-white terms.

That's exactly what you're doing and you know it.

I don't know how dense you have to be to think that because a character said words a 3d person said before them, then that character is therefore realistic. Where do you get this logic? The zoo?

imagine if asuka saw this

literal, black and white terms... hmm... sounds a lot like calling someone an [x]fag to me

In the context of the Anime, he is realistic. People like him exist.
For Anno, it was someone like Ikuhara.
For others, they relate him to figures like Mother Teresa.
His angel traits don't refute this, he's an anime character after all. Just like Asuka, Rei, and Misato have 'anime' unrealistic traits to them doesn't negate the fact that they are realistic.

I'm speaking from experience and there is nothing paranoid about it. There is usually only one or two of your kin in these threads so don't worry, the other one is bound to show up with his "kaworu is actually Jungian and Freudian allegory because Anno likes those as well" take any minute now. Which one you you is right I wonder though? Probably neither and you're both just retarded shippers trying to make you ship sound "deep."

For someone who claims to understand Eva, you sure go to extreme lengths to categorize everyone under one or two traits without even trying to understand them.
Didn't the show tell you to do the exact opposite of that?

Or is Kaworu such a triggering figure to you, you can't have a civil discussion without flipping out about shipping despite no one bringing it up?

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i want to kiss boys

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As a fellow Eva fan have you guys ever though about watching another anime made after 1996? I realize most of us are over 30 and don’t watch anime anymore and only come here to discuss the “good old days” but I think we should at least be watching one anime a year. I like Eva as much as the next guy but there’s much better anime out there these days.

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Fuck off Shinji.

>In the context of the Anime, he is realistic.
Kek, that's not an argument. You don't use the show's universe as point of reference when examining whether a subject is realistic or not, you use ours. And you're wrong on both accounts. Kaworu is deeply unsettling to the people around him and is seen as creepy by the NERV personnel. They know he's unlike other people at a fundamental level. In terms of the narrative he's a blatant Stu and in terms of our world he's a literal personification of an idealized, superpowered "cartoon character." There is nothing about Kaworu that is realistic or down to Earth. Even Asuka or Shinji "realistic" traits and struggles are blown out of proportion and dramatised for the sake of the spectacle.Even Asuka or Shinji "realistic" traits and struggles are blown out of proportion and dramatised for the sake of the spectacle.
>Mother Teresa.
Oh boy, someone needs to update on their MT knowledge.

>much better anime

Name one?

Well, you got Madoka Magica for one. There’s a lot of solid anime out there.

As expected the delusion is so deeply set the kaworufag can't tell fiction from reality anymore.

The three episode Magus Bride OVA is also really good.

she would call you asukafag and you'll die of shame

>Ikuhara is perfect and has no human problems
OK

Then explain yourself

He gives useful realistic advice to Shinji. It doesn't mean he isn't an idealistic standard to which Shinji can be compared and contrasted with. How the hell can you honestly think Kaworu's attitude, lack of fear, lack of insecurities and willingness to give love unconditionally is anywhere near 'realistic'? He is an ideal version of Shinji that you he supposed to strive to be, but obviously will never become because his level of perfection is unrealistic

I never claimed to understand Eva. There more than a single person in this thread calling you a faggot, faggot.

I’ve been meaning to watch something newer anyways. I’ve heard a lot about it but haven’t ever made the time to see it. I’ll give it a shot tonight since it’s friday.

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Not that user but you seem to think people are 'triggered' by Kaworu when in reality they are just calling you out for being a retard

You don't need to samefag out of anger.
As you say, they're all cartoon characters that are dramatized and at times over exaggerated. But the reason why Eva has such lasting power is our ability to relate to them regardless.
I'm not saying Kaworu is relatable, I'm saying he's realistic - specifically the concept of a person loving another person for who they are is realistic. To suggest otherwise makes me feel you have a very pessimistic view on the world.

>Kaworu is deeply unsettling to the people around him and is seen as creepy by the NERV personnel
We only ever see Misato and Rei react to him. Kaworu gives her reason to be suspicious because he can set his sync rate to whatever he wants. Saying he was meant to be creepy is fanwank that goes directly against what Anno says he wanted to portray him as.
Furthermore Anno never, ever portrays Kaworu and Shinji's relationship as a bad thing.
Rather, Shinji killing him is an act berated by Rei and by the show in ep 25. Also, Kaworu is constantly made to say very un-escapist things in the show and in Rebuild. He's made to be the narrator of the show's most major themes of communication and facing reality.
Saying he's supposed to represent unrealism goes against everything he does in the show.

>Oh boy, someone needs to update on their MT knowledge.
Then enlighten me. People see her as an universally altruistic and good person, it's just a point that people like that absolutely do exist.

Misato and Shinji are compared as parallel lines all the time, specially about their daddy issues

>How the hell can you honestly think Kaworu's attitude, lack of fear, lack of insecurities and willingness to give love unconditionally is anywhere near 'realistic'?
Is the ideal self we all hold in our hearts not realistic?
Is the idea of an all-knowing all-powerful God that religious people worship inside their hearts not realistic?
Because humans in the real world envision, strive for, and pray to Kaworu-like individuals in the real world, Kaworu's portrayal in the show is realistic.

would shinji allow asuka to pee in his mouth
would asuka do this

>The magical power of “You’re fine just the way you are”

>During the period when Evangelion was still in its preparatory stages, I was in very close contact with Anno-san. At that time, the staff of Sailor Moon went on a company trip to an onsen, and Anno-san was also among our members. The two of us ended up talking the whole night. Even after everyone else had collapsed we went on and on, drinking sake and talking, sitting side by side in an open air bath and talking.

>So, I think the conversation we had that night had perhaps the same flavor as the exchange between Kaworu and Shinji. I also felt this way when I saw episode 24 for myself. Well, the situation with the bath was the same; that’s easy enough to understand.

>I remember telling [Anno] a story about the time of my adolescence. When I was 14 or 15 years old, I was truly in despair, thinking my life prospects were very bleak. With tests and such things, I had the feeling that I was not permitted even a slight failure. Today it seems like even failures receive attention, or that there is freedom to be “dame,” but at that time it seemed that you would have no future after failing even once. Up until the 70s there was the anpo toso, but when that ended, an atmosphere – “ah, as we suspected, you can’t revolutionize the world” – began to spread.

>So, I thought that I would be dead before I was twenty years old, and any life I lived beyond that would be a kind of omake – that was the story I told [to Anno]. Probably, just the fact that I was able to tell that story was of value to both of us.

>Beyond that, Anno-san loved Sailor Moon and told me he wanted to make a similarly enjoyable work. I wonder if an aftershock had occured when this consciousness that was moving towards the pursuit of realism – a science fiction-like world setting, the details of machines, and so on – came into contact with a work like Sailor Moon.

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just stop, stop this pity party attention whoring bullshit and seek help, otherwise you'll be stuck in this bullshit, self-made, delusional cycle of depression that will either lead to you committing suicide or you wasting your time attention whoring like a faggot on Yea Forums

no matter how you look at it, it is up to you and ONLY you to make a change, start self improvement, hit the gym, start socializing, it is your fault for isolating yourself so far away from other people and not letting people in, and now it's way harder to find long lasting friendships than it was ever before, but if you're going to give up you're nothing more than a fucking pussy, grow a ballsack and change your fucking behaviour, i'm repulsed by this and i'm sure you are too

get yourself together, and start anew

we are all in this together, even when alone, you came to this place just like the rest of us, and you have a barrage of people who will try to comfort you in lies about how you're worth it or how you shouldn't die ( which is up to you, you make of your life what you make of it ) and you will have people who will deliberately try and encourage you to do it ( which doesn't surprise me in the slightest, and we all do it, jokingly or not on here ), but those people in the end won't really mean anything to you, right?

you're an independent person, and it's up to only YOU to get your shit together and stop being a pathetic person

it all starts with you, and nobody else.

>Maybe that was a period where something like the pleasure of an ordinarily enjoyable anime seemed novel to Anno-san. My own impression of Anno-san is a feeling like he’s not human. He’s big, hunches over, and seems to resemble an Evangelion. [For example,] often he’s had a utility knife, and cried out “Yah!” as he slid the blade out (laughs).

>He’s ordered to come back by his father, he’s slapped by Ayanami, he’s called stupid by Asuka, he’s yelled at to straighten up by Misato… Shinji doesn’t recieve much affirmation from others. I think, in this situation, the only one who tells him that he’s fine just the way he is is Kaworu. “You don’t have to try to so hard.”

>Perhaps because of that, after Kaworu appeared, the girls who had been watching Eva and who found it interesting but didn’t feel the kind of enthusiasm that the boys felt about it were able to finally connect emotionally with Shinji. Perhaps because of that everyone loves Kaworu. Hm? Have I ever said to anyone, “you’re fine just the way you are”? Isn’t that something I’m always saying?

>In terms of the narrative he's a blatant Stu and in terms of our world he's a literal personification of an idealized, superpowered "cartoon character."
Not him but I'm not so sure I agree.
Kaworu is only the idealized version of Shinji, not of everyone.
Kaworu is suicidal, extremely naive/pure, and has absolutely no self-worth. These wouldn't be considered 'ideal' traits to a normal person, but they are to Shinji because they are what he wants to be.
He's a fucked up interpretation of what's ideal specifically because he is Shinji's ideal. Not ours.

Kaworu says soothing things that anyone would love to hear, but underneath those things you see he has an extremely bleak and desolate view of the world. Things that someone like Shinji didn't even realize because he was too bewitched by Kaworu's beauty/words to him.
Underneath those words, Kaworu is also an extremely fucked up individual, and I think to label him as a 'gary stu' and call is a day is pretty stupid because his dialogue shows otherwise.

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>the reason why Eva has such lasting power is our ability to relate to them regardless.
Doesn't make it "realistic" still. And there is nobody on the planet who could relate to Kaworu.
>We only ever see Misato and Rei react to him.
Maya and Shigeru are both unsettled by him and his super synch powers.
>Saying he was meant to be creepy is fanwank that goes directly against what Anno says he wanted to portray him as.
Then Anno sucks ate getting his vision across because his DC of the episode has Kaworu freak Misato out by staring at her directly as she spies on his SEELE group chat through the binoculars from a mile away. He even manages to make Rei uneasy and distrustful of him at first glance. Nobody except Shinji is thrilled to be around him.
>Anno never, ever portrays Kaworu and Shinji's relationship as a bad thing.
Not bad but "too good to be true."
>Kaworu is constantly made to say very un-escapist things in the show and in Rebuild. He's made to be the narrator of the show's most major themes of communication and facing reality.
He may say a lot of nice sounding words but his presence alone is how escapism manifests itself, that's why he also dies in every Eva main event. As others have said, his role is to teach Shinji and then leave in order to allow Shinji enact those teachings with regular, imperfect people.

Foil generally means opposites, not being similar.

I tried to give this guy the same advice in like 2 or 3 different Eva threads. He always ignores it and replies by calling you a normie or some shit to deflect the fact that his life is his own responsibility. He is hopeless. You can lead a horse to water but can't force it to drink.

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Do people actually get off to this?

She was a massively corrupt shill for the Vatican whose main purpose was to lure in donors. Millions of dollars and euro donated to her shelters in Calcutta never got there and most of it went directly to the pope's bank acc. Her shelters are described as hell on earth for the people dying in there by volounteers. She was a fanatic obsessed with death, she did not want to bring relief to the people, she wanted them to suffer as much as possible "for the grace of Jesus." Wined and dined with violent and corrupt South American leaders as long as they gave her money, and defended them against international public opinion. She also gave public support to that dude I forgot the name of who defrauded innocent people for billions of dollars through his trustfund. She had no morals, as long as you donated you were a good guy in her book. You could easily find better examples of altruistic people in every day situations in a You Tube compilation.

No, no and no.

Anno: STOP BEING A WEEB, GROW THE FUCK UP

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Almost every single person in the world has fears, insecurities, dark desires, a need for emotional support, a need for affection, etc. Kaworu has none of these things, he simply exists as an ideal person who already has all the answers.

His relationship with Shinji was not meant to be portrayed as bad. Nobody ever implies this. What is bad is if Shinji and Kaworu had a lasting relationship that did not end relatively early because it would never force Shinji to grow up. Instead of learning that love and hope exist from Kaworu, taking his lessons and trying his damndest to connect with REAL people that are ambiguous, insecure and don't always give a clear cut answer as to what they need or want. He could just endlessly be coddled by Kaworu instead of having to navigate that minefield.

For instance, with Asuka, Shinji has to learn to be vulnerable, love himself, and attempt to understand her and the ambiguity and insecurity's associated with her being an imperfect being. With Kaworu, everything is easy and clear cut. He 'loves' Shinji and nothing Shinji could do would ever change that. It's perverted and completely ignores the themes of navigating that emotional minefield to find happiness in reality. That's the entire reason Shinji and Asuka are the only two left at the end of EoE.

>equating ideals that only exist in people's hearts and minds with actual, tangible real people as if they are the same thing

I've been attempting to be understanding up to this point but cmon man, this is fucking retarded.

>Doesn't make it "realistic" still
It does. The fact that we can see ourselves in them is what makes them realistic as portrayals of human beings.
>And there is nobody on the planet who could relate to Kaworu.
Many could relate to his views on death, but I agree as a character he wasn't meant to be relatable - I say this in my previous posts.
>Maya and Shigeru are both unsettled
No? They're shocked and show surprise, but definitely not unsettled. Really no one is, only Misato thinks he's strange because she caught him talking to himself.
>Then Anno sucks ate getting his vision across
Not at all, to this day Kaworu remains one of the most popular Eva characters with both girls and boys. Again, only Misato shows any negative reaction to him. Even Rei is more concerned about what he said to her than what he is, her last scene in that episode is looking at him smiling to her.
>but his presence alone is how escapism manifests itself
Kaworu doesn't represent escapism. Kaworu is always saying anti-escapist things and telling Shinji to face reality. In the episode he forces Shinji to face reality by revealing himself as an angel. The only escapism is how Shinji chooses to react to Kaworu and other people.
Shinji uses Kaworu, his SDAT, and the EVA for escapism, but those things don't represent escapism in themselves. The condemnable thing here is how Shinji chooses to live. It always was.

Let me get my shaving device and I'll be on my way, Anno-Peterson sama!

>milf
Wasn't she a lonely cat lady?

yeah, scratch that, I think I got it backwards

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>It does. The fact that we can see ourselves in them is what makes them realistic as portrayals of human beings.
No, you literally misconstrued the definition of the word. Relatable does not mean realistic. Ghosts and goblins can be relatable in a story.
>to this day Kaworu remains one of the most popular Eva characters with both girls and boys.
Because realistic characters are not popular. People love to insert or fantasize about things that are out of this world. And Kaworu is literally that, albino anime husbando who is perfect and extraordinary. Also being creepy in-universe has no effect on a chara popularity potential. Some people argue that Rei is meant to be creepy and she's been most popular for decades.
>Kaworu doesn't represent escapism.
Kaworu represents escapism to Shinji because he's LITERALLY the one to whom Shinji escapes from his problems. escapes from Rei III, Misato, Asuka, the absence of his friends and so on. Kaworu is Shinji's escape, he may not approve, but he takes him in nontheless with no complaint. He becomes the anti-escapism message only after the angel reveal, much to Shinji's despair. This proves that all of Kaworu's pretty words fell on deaf ears, so to thematically fill his purpose he had to force Shinji to kill him to deny him that escape.

>he simply exists as an ideal person who already has all the answers
See: He's only ideal to Shinji, which is a warped interpretation of what's ideal. And he's even proven wrong in ep 24 due to his own flaw of being too naive.

>because it would never force Shinji to grow up
>He could just endlessly be coddled by Kaworu
>With Kaworu, everything is easy and clear cut
These are all things that episode 24 proves wrong.
Kaworu is criticizing Shinji in every single scene they have together. He's warning him not to take his home with Misato for granted, to be aware of his position as a pilot, that if he strays away from people he'll always be alone.
In this sense, he's pretty much akin to a therapist. He doesn't coddle, he does the opposite. He loves Shinji because he believes all humans deserve kindness and love. Do you disagree? Eva shows you what happens to people who are left bereft of those things, it fucks them up eternally.

The point of my posts isn't arguing for them to be in a relationship (It would probably be a great thing for Shinji, but TERRIBLE for Kaworu - he'd be getting nothing in return), Shinji needs to come to terms with himself first, he can seek a relationship when he gets older and learns more about himself.
The point of my post is showing you Kaworu himself is not a representation of the ideal, escapism, or even unrealism. These three traits are only found in Shinji's reaction to Kaworu.
It's Shinji who finds Kaworu ideal.
It's Shinji who uses Kaworu for escapsim.
Kaworu himself does not embody those things, his words actually oppose them - but the whole problem here was that Shinji wasn't listening. He wasn't taking Kaworu's advice to better himself, he only paid attention when Kaowru said he loved him. He spent the entire episode basically ignoring Kaworu and forcing an inaccurate idealistic perception on him. And you're doing the same.

you do realise theres a fanfic where Kaworu turns Shinji into the same type of being he is (Angel-Human Hybrid)
after they connsumate their love and they literally fly off and live forever together, and shinjis closed heart opens up as he gains the power to create a larger AT field

What do kawoshin fanfics have to do with anything

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stop pity partying and watch TTGL

I think hes telling you to fuck off and go read one if you love kawoshin so much but im actually not sure... he seems not all there.

what an insufferable faggot

>Relatable does not mean realistic
Lmao, yes it does.
>Ghosts and goblins can be relatable in a story.
And? If they are, then that means we're relating to the 'human' aspects within them. Those very traits would be realistic.
>Because realistic characters are not popular. People love to insert or fantasize about things that are out of this world.
Sure, but Eva's popularity is because is mixed both of those things together.
If it had been too fantastically or too realistic no one would be interested. People became fascinated by the anime elements, but got emotionally attached because of the realistic elements of the characters.

>And Kaworu is literally that, albino anime husbando who is perfect and extraordinary
Only to those who didn't pay attention to the episode:
He's not creepy, Anno confirms he never intended him to be creepy, and it's the same for Rei. The only people who say Rei was meant to be creepy are Asukafags butthurt at her popularity.

>Kaworu represents escapism to Shinji because he's LITERALLY the one to whom Shinji escapes from his problems
Look at the posts I linked, Shinji's actions represent escapism, Kaworu himself doesn't.
Shinji is always escaping, he uses his SDAT, the Eva, Kaworu, and later even tries to use Asuka! This doesn't mean these individuals and objects represent escapism at all, it just shows Shinji's actions are harmful ways of employing escapism.
From his very first scene to his last, Kaworu says nothing but anti-escapist things. The problem is Shinji wasn't listening. He never does.

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What's it called? I'm curious.

Do you have any idea how long a dick has to be to make that penetrative position work?

Kaworu is fucking shinji, not the other way around.

Have you tried anal missionary? It's a fucking circus act to get it to work.

fanfiction.net/s/8410386/1/Where-Your-Gentle-Wing-Rests

Are you suggesting Kaworu's dick isn't massive?

they might be humping user

why asuka is shit
>real human bean with real problems
why rei is great
>mary sue who can fly and doesn't afraid of anything
you sure showed us, buddy

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>he went after her when she was having a breakdown over being replaced in ep 9

I never really thought of that. She probably thought to herself at this moment that he could be the one that she seeks help and comfort from as a result of that action.

No, it doesn't. Characters who are wholly unrealistic themselves can have realistic hurdles thrown against them while remaining entirely unrealistic. Think of a pink, talking, flying elefant stuck in a traffic jam who overcomes the problem with his godly superpowers of flight. You might relate to the problem but not the character itself. Which of Kaworu's problems is in any way relatable to the average viewer? How many people struggle with being literal gods stuck inbetwen international mass murdering agendas?

sounds about right.

Unreal cope.

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>Shinji's actions represent escapism, Kaworu himself doesn't.
Shinji's perspective is central and dominant to the show's narrative and thematic play. The message Kaworu gives might be directed to the audience but Shinji is deaf to it nonetheless, and so the viewer and Shinji receive the message through different means. The viewer by just listening to the words and Shinji through the act of being forced to kill Kaworu. In fictional settings things and stakes are usually heightened so that kind of exaggeration is acceptable. It doesn't literally mean thet real life people should kill the ones toward whom they have unhealthy attachement.

His superpowers alone are enough to put a line between him and an average viewer. You are still describing an average "beautifully suffering" anime bishounen. Real suicidal people with those traits and their suffering would not be as pretty as Kaworu's. For all intents and purposes every trait you might assign to him as been presented in an aesthetically pleasing fashion. Pure, affable, eternally smiling. Real suffering leaves a mark on people.

>Characters who are wholly unrealistic themselves can have realistic hurdles thrown against them while remaining entirely unrealistic.
Why are you changing your argument? You said relatable =! realistic, and I said that's just not true.
We relate to Misato/Asuka/Shinji's plights and traits because they very common in people, that's what makes them realistic despite the other Anime-y/Unrealistic traits that accompany them.
>Which of Kaworu's problems is in any way relatable to the average viewer?
Are you not even reading my posts? I've told you a million times I don't think Kaworu is relatable. You're the one who is arguing that Shinji and co. aren't realistic.

"Eva is a story that repeats.
It is a story where the main character witnesses many horrors with his own eyes, but still tries to stand up again.
It is a story of will; a story of moving forward, if only just a little.
It is a story of fear, where someone who must face indefinite solitude fears reaching out to others, but still wants to try."

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>Real suicidal people with those traits and their suffering would not be as pretty as Kaworu's...Real suffering leaves a mark on people.
What an inaccurate statement. Usually it's the people who are happy-go-lucky and overly optimistic that are suffering the most.
Celebrities who put on a facade of happiness and perfection are found hanging from a belt in a hotel room weeks later.
Nothing about Kaworu's suicidal tendencies is condoned or presented as pleasing, that's the whole point of Misato's speech at the end of the episode.

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I've seen this somewhere, hmmmmmmmm

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>Why are you changing your argument? You said relatable =! realistic, and I said that's just not true.
I am not. I always claimed Kaworu and his issues are both entirely unrealistic and unrelatable. Asuka and Shinji less so, but my initial argument is unchanging, there is nothing realistic NOR relatable about kaworu. I'm merely picking apart your generalization that whatever is relatable is some form must be realistic, it does not.
>Are you not even reading my posts? I've told you a million times I don't think Kaworu is relatable.
I don't track your IP. Do link a single relatable trait he has so I can debunk it.

Just because Shinji is the MC doesn't mean he's right. He's an unreliable narrator down to the very end and we know from countless other scenes throughout the show he makes the wrong choices many times. Kaworu died not because he represents escapism or unrealism, but because Shinji used him for those things and was punished for it:

>Interviewer: It might be that they can’t see an ending like that as anything other than running away. It might be that, even though he’d been saying that he mustn’t run away, they can’t help but think of him as having run for it.

>Anno: I wonder why people are saying that, “You can’t run away!” is a theme.

>Interviewer: What?! …Well, if you put it like that. *laughs* Well, then Shinji-kun isn’t always limited to being right, is he?

>Anno: That’s true. Why does everyone assume that what the protagonist says and does is right, I wonder?

>Interviewer: Huh. The protagonist did say, “It would have been okay to run away.”

>Anno: Yeah. That’s the theme. It’s okay to run away.

>Interviewer: Then you mean to say that he could have gotten by without killing Nagisa-kun?

>Anno: The people who empathized were fine just doing that. The people who’d been saying that they mustn’t run away were the ones who ran and were blamed, that was also okay.
>But there’s also a part of me that wants to say, “Don’t set your heart on believing that that’s right!” If everyone asked me whether the things that I’m doing are right, I’d tell them that that’s just not the case! There’s even a line in episodes 25 and 26 that goes, “If you want to run away, then it’s okay to run away.” Well it means that, by running away, there are things that you gain and things that you lose, after all. It’s always one or the other as long as humans are living.

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Another broad generalization. It's only a subset of people who are like that. The majority of suicides is committed by people with prolonged and visible issues, and by people who repeatedly make threats about committing suicide.
>Nothing about Kaworu's suicidal tendencies is condoned or presented as pleasing, that's the whole point of Misato's speech at the end of the episode.
Kaworu's suicidal tendencies are burried under all of his supernatural "cool & awesome" qualities so thoroughly most people don't even remember he has them. There is a reason why male Eva fans want to be like him. Stop painting a picture regarding Kaworu that simply does not reflect reality. Kaworu is never seen as a monument of suffering, Kaworu is seen as Shinji's perfect and dignified, superpowered angel boyfriend.

>Realistic: able to be related to ; possible to understand, like, or have sympathy for because of similarities to oneself or one's own experiences
If one can relate to a character, it's because it's something they have personally experienced or seen in REALITY. So those very traits in that character would be realistic to the viewer by default.
You claimed Asuka and Shinji aren't realistic because they're dramatized exaggerations of people. I disagree, we can still find them realistic because of those relatable traits within them which make the core of their character; the Anime-y/exaggerated parts of them don't negate their realism as portrayals of people.
>there is nothing realistic NOR relatable about kaworu
I never said he was intended to be relatable, I said what he gives to Shinji - understanding and kindness - was not intended to be unrealistic, there are many people who take on Kaworu-like roles for others in the real world. This can take the form of a therapist, God, a parent, etc. but it's a very real thing.

>I don't track your IP. Do link a single relatable trait he has so I can debunk it.
You don't have to track it, all you have to do is read the post chain. It's not hard.
I never said he's relatable so I'm not sure why you keep assuming otherwise in every post you make.

>Just because Shinji is the MC doesn't mean he's right.
No but his perspective is probably the most significant and serves as a filter for the show's themes. We also do hear that it's okay to run away from Rei so we do get the message that Shinji's mantra is not always imperative.
>Kaworu died not because he represents escapism or unrealism
Kaworu died because Shinji chose humanity over his personal and emotional needs, so that was already the first step for him toward facing reality.

They are just rubbing their dick together cause they ain't gay

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>It's only a subset of people who are like that
And? Are these people suddenly less real because they're in the minority?
There's also only a subset of people that act like Asuka and Shinji, too.

The truth is the average person isn't riddled with mental illnesses and Naruto-tier tragic backstories where they watched they mother hang themselves in front of them.
But there are people like this out there, and that is why they're realistic.

>Kaworu's suicidal tendencies are burried
Burried? He straight up says death is freedom to him. Misato says he wished for death. Ep 25 repeats it.
It's not burried, it's outright stated in the subs for you several times. It's not my fault you didn't pay attention, this is how people come to the conclusion Shinji is just a pussy, Rei is just a doll, and Asuka is just a bitch. It's just retards not paying attention to thing obviously beat over your head.

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>This can take the form of a therapist, God, a parent, etc. but it's a very real thing.

God isn't a real person you can talk to and a therapist doesn't give 'genuine' kindness like a friend or parent would. If anything Kaworu was like a mother/father figure with his show of unconditional love. It's important for a child to develop, but you can't latch onto it and become stagnant. You have to leave Mommy dearest and start walking your own path, whatever that may entail, with the tools she taught to you. That is why Kaworu must die. A bird needs to leave it's mothers nest, but without being forced to, Shinji would probably never have done so.

>If one can relate to a character, it's because it's something they have personally experienced or seen in REALITY
Sure, like a pink omniscient elephant getting stuck in a traffic jam or having a bad hair day. Is the elephant realistic now?
>the Anime-y/exaggerated parts of them don't negate their realism as portrayals of people.
They unavoidably diminish the realism of the characters.
>there are many people who take on Kaworu-like roles for others in the real world.
Having somebody like Kaworu with all his divine qualities manifest in someones life exactly when they are needed is something akin to a fairy tale deux ex machina. Can happen in real life but it's a rarity. And definitely carries more resemblance to a plot development found within a fairy tale rather than a story that's meant to be down-to-earth realistic.
In all honesty user, are you seriously honestly believing that the whole ep 24 plot is how real life usually plays out? Really?

Kaworu died because he told Shinji to kill him, he told Shinji humanity needs the future.
But Kaworu's death is what SEELE was banking on, and Kaworu's death allowed for SEELE to come in and murder everyone at NERV and initiate instrumentality to mass murder all of humanity - making Kaworu's sacrifice completely pointless.

As Anno himself says, Kaworu didn't need to die.

this user got it

>Is the elephant realistic now?
No, because getting stuck in a traffic jam and having a bad hair day aren't character traits. They're only things that happened to the elephant.
Shinji and co. are much more than what has happened to them, they have specific character traits and personalities that are relatable - this makes them realistic as characters.

>They unavoidably diminish the realism of the characters.
Explain.

>Having somebody like Kaworu with all his divine qualities
I'm not saying Kaworu himself, I'm saying a savior-type person like Kaworu who saves and helps you in a dark chapter of your life.
The concept itself is realistic and something that happens in reality all the time, many people help/care for others just because. What do you think volunteer work is?
As for Kaworu himself, his words in the bath scene and bed scene are directly taken from an encounter Anno had in real life, so no, I don't think he intended to portray it as unrealistic at all.

>He straight up says death is freedom to him.
He also says this as a god-like immortal being who has no issues popping right back to reality to give Shinji a few more pep-talks. His "death" isn't even final or hindering to him in any way. And that might be the reason why it's so easy for him to toss out those words. Hell user, this is the exact reason why noboy takes Kaworu's suffering seriously. His human vessel was a hindrance to him the whole time anyway. To us humans for all we know our fleshy vessels are all we have. Like hell I'm going to relate to a literal suicide baiting, but actually just immortal faggot. Kaworu carries such a dangerous and destructive message he'd enever be allowed in current TV for children.

>But Kaworu's death is what SEELE was banking on, and Kaworu's death allowed for SEELE to come in and murder everyone at NERV and initiate instrumentality to mass murder all of humanity
All part of Yui's plan for Shinji to reject it, which he did. Even the NERV staff can return to life. So in the end of ends it all turned out pretty okay.

Exactly, Kaworu is immortal and can never truly die. That's why he has no value for life and considers death to be freedom.
But that still isn't something that's condoned and is shown to be fucked up by Misato's words.
You don't have to relate to Kaworu's 'suffering', the point is to show you Kaworu was and is not some perfect bishounen husbando as you keep touting - the show is very obvious in showing he has this flaw that is certainly not ideal to you and me.
>Kaworu carries such a dangerous and destructive message he'd enever be allowed in current TV for children.
The message that humanity should live on and needs the future? Okay.

Sure, except it traumatized every single person there including Shinji.
Shinji at the end of eoe does not look okay.

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>getting stuck in a traffic jam and having a bad hair day aren't character traits.
And we've already established that on character traits alone you lose severely because none of Kaworu's traits are even close to realistic or relatable. And only certain parts of Shinji and Asuka's are too.
>Explain.
Unrealistic traits make characters unrealistic.
>I'm not saying Kaworu himself, I'm saying a savior-type person like Kaworu who saves and helps you in a dark chapter of your life.
Right, you want me to think of a loosely related situation that only slightly resembles the plot of ep 24. That sure makes an argument for ep 24 being realistic exactly the way it plays out.

It traumatized Shinji because he was the one shouldering the burden of being "the chosen one," everyone else experienced euphoria, mild surprise at worst. If Shinji hadn't killed Kaworu, SEELE goons would have done it. If Kaworu wanted to fuck off and let humanity live, he shouldn't have barged in to Terminal Dogma and make threats against humanity. He could have just fucked off to the Moon from the get go. He was intending to carry out his "destiny" to wipe out mankind and he decided against it too little too late. It was more Kaworu's mistake than Shinji's. Shinji was merely carrying out his duties.

>Exactly, Kaworu is immortal and can never truly die. That's why he has no value for life and considers death to be freedom.
So relatable and realistic.
>Kaworu was and is not some perfect bishounen husbando as you keep touting
My main argument is that he's unrealistic. Considering that we're in the middle of discussion about that, whether voluntarily or not you pretty much shot down most arguments in favour of him being realistic.
>The message that humanity should live on and needs the future? Okay.
Don't play dumb.

>because none of Kaworu's traits are even close to realistic or relatable
Okay, at this point you're not even reading the conversation.
I'm not going to repeat myself for the 100th time that I never argued Kaworu was relatable, only that what he represented to Shinji was realistic.

I was arguing with you on you stating that characters like Shinji, Asuka, and Misato are not realistic because they're relatable.

>Unrealistic traits make characters unrealistic.
Not necessarily.
For example, Asuka's unrealistic trait of graduating at 13 does not negate the realism in her trait of seeking purpose through the validation and acknowledgement of others because ultimately the latter is what defines her character, not the former.
>Right, you want me to think of a loosely related situation that only slightly resembles the plot of ep 24
No, I want you to acknowledge that to Shinji, Kaworu is a savior-like person who comes to save/help him in a dark part of his life - that concept in itself is not unrealistic because it happens all the time in reality.

>If Shinji hadn't killed Kaworu, SEELE goons would have done it
Not true, they sent Kaworu specifically there to be killed by Unit 01. If they could do it themselves they would have.

Kaworu only started questioning his objective on the way down to Dogma, so fucking off would have been impossible. It was by seeing humanity's strong will to live as opposed to his lack of one that made him question it, so theoretically he only could have at that late point in time.
Also it makes for a more dramatic and memorable episode than Kaworu just saying no way fag and flying to the moon.

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>My main argument is that he's unrealistic
Then you're an idiot because I never argued with you against that. Since my very first post to you I said he wasn't relatable, only that what he meant to Shinji was realistic.
If you can't see the difference between these two things than I don't know what to tell you.

>Don't play dumb.
Read the subs next time.
Everything that comes out of Kaworu's mouth is an anti-escapist message of living on, connecting with others, and loving yourself.
If you want to call this unrealistic than go ahead, but you have a very pessimistic view of the world then.

yeah its a turning point in their relationship, and as it falls apart all her resentment over shinji not helping, not knowing what she wants without her having to say it, and the fact that she eventually starts to think he's doing it on purpose makes sense if she's thinking of that incident as proof that he could be helping her, holding her, ect if he wanted to

>I'm not going to repeat myself for the 100th time that I never argued Kaworu was relatable
Sorry user, you shifted goal posts so many times one eventually will lose the track of the conversation.
> that concept in itself is not unrealistic because it happens all the time in reality.
You can't argue the realism of a situation presented in a show based on barebone concepts alone. In this sense literally nothing is unrealistic.

But he doesn't even say anything or comfort her, he just stares at her.